 As I promised, we do have an interview, a virtual one, because we are very into social distancing. And we'll be talking a little bit about the quarantine, the mandatory quarantine, that we have witnessed in the country. So, with me is Juan Timothy, and I'll let him introduce himself as we get straight into the matter. Hi, Timothy. Good morning. Hi. Good morning. How are you? How are you doing? I'm fine. Thank you. You look very well. I'm fine. Thank you. You look very healthy. I am. We have to survive at this time. Yeah, this time of the pandemic. It has united us, and it has leveled us all at the same time. We are now all at the same, because we can stay in the house and wash our hands. No one is it. So, maybe you can introduce yourself, tell us your name and what you do. Okay. Thank you. My name is Timothy Wafula. I'm a human rights lawyer, and I work with an NGO that is called KELIN, which is short for Kenya Legal and Ethical Issues Network. This is an NGO that works around the right to health to protect and promote the right to health. Yes, yes. It sounds very complicated. Yes, so for focus on human rights, in case there are any violations around the right to health policies and guidelines in the health sector, that is our main focus, yes, to ensure that the right to health in the constitution is protected and promoted, yes. All right, so just by having this conversation means somewhere, somehow out there, there's been a violation of human rights, and that's what we're here to address. Yes, so our main concern in them recently has been around mandatory quarantine. You remember that when the pandemic was first announced in Kenya, a letter on the government took measures, and some of these measures included introduction of mandatory quarantine for all persons who are coming out of the country. And yes, that is a very good measure. We have to say that because it's a public health measure that is trying to prevent the spread of COVID. We understand how infectious COVID is and also the need to ensure that all measures are put in place to prevent further spread of the virus in the country. And mandatory quarantine was one of such measures that were introduced. And yes, so as I've said, it's a good measure, a public health measure whose objective is just to ensure that people who might have been exposed to the virus are separated from the rest of the population. And when they're separated, the purpose of the separation is to monitor their health to check if they're okay in cases that their symptoms, there's early detection and treatment is as soon as possible. So it's just to ensure that this person stays away from the population. But the main purpose is for health specific purposes monitoring and detection of possible infection. However, we've had some concerns from individuals who are now in mandatory quarantine. They have reached out to our organization. They have shared via social media. They have shared via video links and so many other platforms that the implementation of this mandatory program, mandatory quarantine program, is not being conducted in a manner that safeguards their health and well-being. So one, yes, yes, yes. So there was some concerns, immediately passengers arrived at JKIA. They started raising concerns how they were bundled into one bus and we know that COVID, we are promoting social distancing, people should not be in crowds. So how they were supported from the airport, then taken to the mandatory quarantine center, they had concerns and they raised and they said that this should be improved if we have to prevent a further spread of COVID. And also they have also shared concerns and saying that it's mandatory quarantine there for the viruses. And this one is also an issue that to some of them they feel the government needs to take responsibility because it's not only for the personal benefit, but for the benefit of the country that this program is being implemented. So there are cost implications that they have raised concerns about and also just the general condition of some of the quarantine facilities. So that is how we came into the conversation after hearing all this. Maybe if I may because it's a bit dangerous to blame or point fingers at the government for not being very prepared because COVID-19 kind of took the world by storm. There is no country or president or government that has prepared for this prior. There's no one who has resources just set aside for such a pandemic. So first of all, maybe we should give credit where credit is due. Thank you for doing what you can, dear government, and thank you for directives. And then in the same breath, what kind of grievances are we looking at? Are we looking at someone who's lonely maybe 14 days in quarantine? Is that a real problem? Are they lacking food? Are they lacking basic resources? Are they being given information? Do they know what's going on? Do they know how many active cases there are? Do they know how many recoveries there are? What's really going on on the ground? Okay, thank you. I think it is suffocating and it is crippling invention and not point fingers. And in the letter, there's something level of improvement. So yes, so some of the concerns that have been raised one is just to have the government develop a guideline to and a guideline has actually been developed a mandatory quarantine guideline that just states what is supposed to happen in quarantine, what are the measures to ensure infection control, to prevent further spread and such issues. So that we have one of the aim of our interventions that we need to have a proper guideline in place and a policy in place that will guide implementation of the mandatory quarantine process such that and the importance of this is the rights of people because people who are in quarantine also still have rights, the rights are respected. So if this happens within a proper framework, then the likelihood that their rights will be guaranteed and respected are higher than if it's it's conducted in a half hazard and uncoordinated manner. So some of these concerns are simply fashion. So at one point, the current mandatory quarantine for people who are in quarantine right now was extended by a further 14 days. So most of them had planned to stay in quarantine for 14 days, but later on the government issued a circular that this has to be extended for a further 14 days because they were not sure that some might have come in contact with people who are tested for COVID positive. So whereas the people who are in quarantine are not contesting them being in further quarantine, they were just concerned about how this information was being shared, that they were just hearing from this or about this from the media just like the rest of us and they are the main affected people. They were concerned about the further costs of the extra 14 days given that all of them have to pay for their bills. They were concerned that the longer they stay in quarantine and if the conditions are not improved, the management is not good. They are even risking it's it's it's for them they were saying this it becomes more that chance that you infected while in quarantine become higher as opposed to you being outside of which that should not be the case. So some of them also had concerns about the mental health saying yeah we need we need we need we need the mental health of everybody who is isolation to be taken care of and of course now the other main important bit being about the had concerns around the testing. So testing the concern was that testing they were they were delays in getting testing results. So for them they were saying if we are going to get out of here we need testing to be very prompt and results to come promptly not to be delayed by the time the results are marked things have changed and all that and also that if there are any extensions of mandatory quarantine it should affect people who have been in close contact of those who have turned COVID positive. Yeah so that was that and not a blanket extension for everybody. So just they get it in place measures to closely monitor everybody so that they're able to tell who has come in contact with a person who has tested positive, who has gone who has tested negative and has been quarantined through following all the quarantine procedures and should be discharged. Yeah so that was those were the main concerns. So for now they're saying that the concern has been if this continues this way it might be an indefinite quarantine of which it should not. The purpose is to monitor the health and ensure somebody comes out negative and if you are positive you are treated and taken for treatment so those are some of the concerns here. I imagine the grievances for lack of a better word that I've been hearing from people on the ground who are practicing self-isolation or they're staying at home is especially people with very large families are not okay you know all the kids are home all the grown-ups are home so it's a bit strenuous on them as a family with their own resources at home so I can only imagine now incurring other costs while somewhere else and it is not of your own volition it is mandatory and you can't really refuse because you know it's it's healthy it's it's good like you must be quarantined to make sure that you're not a threat to anybody else and as I am seeing it quarantine doesn't mean that you have tested positive for COVID-19 it means either you are suspected or you're displaying such symptoms so when you're placed in quarantine you might actually have a risk of of getting cross-contamination or however they put it but now translating to what the government said they said they'll have a method or a way to conduct mass testing very soon in a few weeks or I'm not to show in a few days but what does that mean for us when we now begin mass testing is it are we going to be all mass quarantined are we going to have the same kind of problems but now at a horrible blown up level that what what do we expect thank you so with them with with with them with COVID the message from the government that we need to isolate themselves if you display or to avoid social places and all these issues so with the mandatory quarantine program mostly it targets people who are suspected to have come in close contact with a person who has tested tested COVID positive so these maybe those who will go into quarantine are people for example in a household if one person tests positive then maybe the others need to be taken to mandatory quarantine but that's that should not I think the mandatory quarantine it should not be like that the routine so if these people have a way of self isolating in their homes also the guidelines allow for that that you can have self isolation in your in your house you can quarantine yourself in a facility in in in any other place so the instances where the mandatory quarantine comes in is in extreme we can say we can say should be as an extreme nation and who no longer who cannot self isolate here they have come in close contact we need to closely monitor them and and search issues and it can only happen at a certain facility so those are there so maybe we should not have concerns that with mass testing then everybody will have to be taken to quarantine facilities no the message be you are already isolating yourself at home so if the mass testing happens people some close contacts are found to be positive those who are have come into contact with them they encourage to self isolate and they if we can show that there is their measures within which to self isolate then that that one proceeds so so those are the concerns but of course those are good those are good questions that you are raising so from a citizen's point of view what would be asking the government is how many for example quarantine facilities are there if i'm taken to a quarantine facility what should i expect there so for instance i pay for my cost why why is the government not pay for my cost will i be given food will there be good hygiene will there be water how many times will i be tested at the quarantine facility many care workers are in these quarantine facilities so what's the difference between a quarantine facility and my home for instance if i am able to to self isolate in in my home what are the measures like are the health care workers in their quarantine facilities do they have adequate protective protective equipment or the protective gear that they've been talking about if it's hotel staff are they also protected so some of those are some of the questions so for instance if so if i have a pre-existing condition say cancer hiv tb and i'm in this quarantine facility how will that be taken care of so those those those are the those are the legitimate questions that we are asking right now that the government proactively shares with the people people are well prepared people know that it's only at this instance that i might i will be required to go to mandatory uh current it's actions that are available uh self isolation uh isolation at a health facility for example mother so all these people should have all the information about all these options that are there so those those are some of the things and our messaging what we in advocating for is that the government needs to take up this responsibility it needs to proactively share the information and because quarantine is being undertaken as a public health measure to protect the entire public we should support people who are in quarantine and not create an extra burden to them for instance through the costs through putting them in some deplorable conditions no let's take let's us as a government take responsibility for them because if when they come out negative it's a win it's a win for for all of us as a country and for that for the person and we should ensure that we are providing maximum support to to to to to them so yes so that's that's what i was saying it's like you heard because the next question i was going to ask you is what maybe do you think the government should do but i i like that i like the keeping open communication making sure that the facilities are you know habitable for the time that quarantine is necessary but i have a question for you maybe in conclusion there is a very very large number of canyons who live below the poverty line you know and self isolation means no food that day because you know it's it's they largely rely on their hands or movement or things like this basic basic things and i'm not speaking french this is something that we know we are canyons in canya right so what does that mean for maybe someone like me if i stay in the home then i don't i don't get to trade i won't get to eat that day but now you want me to self isolate or self quarantine or even worse now you're telling me mandatory quarantine how can we convince or how can we cater for the destitute because they exist this is a very real problem yes yes very very true and yes and that's another messaging that we've been trying to encourage that the measures that are put in place have to look into all the existing conditions that are there it has to cater for everybody it has to cater for for the vulnerable the marginalized people in informal settlements people everywhere everybody so people with great existing conditions so everybody must be catered for in these in these policies or guidelines that are there and in implementation of the guidelines it should not be blanket it should we should be looking for case by case basis so the main thing that has to be out is this information these guidelines around the quarantine what's what's what's what's in what's this quarantine that we are talking about and at what point does somebody if somebody for example are required to be in quarantine and if we are having this so now my name my other message the the issue of supporting the people everybody to be supported so for instance you will not everybody cannot pay pay for for for the quarantine and if we continue saying that we these quarantine facilities you have to pay for you to be accommodated there then there's a very big population that will not be able to afford the quarantine and it's not for there it's not just about them it's it's us as a country we are fighting this pandemic together so we need to have in place mechanisms that ensure that everybody in mandatory quarantine whether it's a mandatory quarantine whether it's a self-isolation whether it's a near the quarantine program that their needs are met that they are properly catered for cost wise hygiene wise food wise and all their needs are met and that we are not violating their rights by having them in quarantine people people should not fear they should know that this is a beneficial program for me I should not be thinking that are being taken to quarantine is a punishment no it's not a punishment you're not you're not a criminal in any way you are the objective is a public health objective to ensure your health and the health of the society but if we pass a message in as if this is a criminalized issue it's a form of punishment it's some punitive measure then that is the time that you now have experiencing challenges people are daring to for example what is now introduced so that is that is the main messaging and supporting everybody regardless of their of the of their status just following the constitutional principles and discrimination protection and rights dignity health and and all that yes what can I do what can I do as an individual to maybe I don't know help the process get information going I believe everyone has a part to play what do you suggest that I can do to help in this particular situation that we are highlighting thank you so I will say as as as individuals at the community we should not we should always be proactive in pushing the government to do the right thing we should not stay back and just let things happen seem something may be going wrong and saying hey let's not speak about it because it's a hard time for everyone now we have these rights to ask the right questions to ask that proper measures are put in place because if it becomes a bigger issue we want everybody to be we want everybody to be protected we don't want we which it is not a time to say hey let those deal with us to speak up push for information support wherever we can and provide the right information to the to the public about what is happening around the programs okay thank you so very much for the riveting conversation I think I've learned a lot and the viewers at home have as well and I believe we shall overcome and wash your hands thanks all right thank you so very much by in the morning viewers we just had a conversation with timothy and we're talking about quarantine and those who are already currently in mandatory quarantine their grievances and maybe possible solutions so what we are going to do is going to take a short musical break and then we'll be back with interview number two you don't want to miss it