 All right today is December 10th. This is the DevSync special guest is Kevin. He's been doing all our hardware work he'll be listening in and Let's go ahead and Well, you know to be honest we were having a conversation about some of the last weeks to the hardware that we're making So why don't we just continue that conversation? So we were talking about the the fan placement one of the the final eyes to dot or teased across on on the DevKits and So Derek You said you want to mount it directly to the CPU Yeah with a Like a heat sink fan combo. There's directly on the CPU with like a 25 millimeter square just little a little fan But that's not very big and you know, it's maybe not It's good for cooling the CPU directly But you know you would mention that the SJ201 itself has maybe some need for cooling as well So it might not might not be the most ideal for that Yeah, I mean, yes, J201 draws a lot more power than the Raspberry Pi because of the amplifiers and the XMOS chip and everything else Yeah, like I said, I was noticing it getting pretty warm to the touch and a very low flow Fan I cooled it down significantly. So that was that was my thinking there So, yeah, I mean, I think I had the same conclusion that Josh had I actually sent Derek a picture of just that Josh of using that the the hole on on this side of the device just putting four mounting holes on that and You know, okay, then you stick a fan inside or the outside Yeah Well, the only question if we do put it on this side is to make sure that we have enough space for the fan between the inside of the case and the And the audio chamber, but it looks it looks like we do and so we could just tweak this last shape and Derek needs to make a change. Well, we don't need to but I mean Since we're doing another rev anyway It's my preference that this the assemblable and only one configuration because right now a couple parts are reversible and you could You could put the for instance the front plate could be reversed and the left and the right can be reversed So rather than Then do it like it'd be great if just by design there was only one way to make it into a box So we just need to tweak some of these tabs. Yeah Yeah Guess what's saying is that that access panel one for that access hole was intended to be able to reach in and get to the SD card and DSi cable Although you can't assemble it if you do it correct, you know, the right order you don't need to So access it that way you can just you know assemble it on the front and then plug it into the pie Before you put the, you know, Kate the final case together So I don't think that's that big a deal and you know, we're using We're pretty committed to using USB. So I think that's that's okay, too We can put it off you can still leave maybe a little bit of access there I was also just thinking about the like the cable, you know, the bigger the cable for there is the more that it's gonna like compete airflow of you know from the fan. So like Oh, right, you know potentially Yeah, if we cut down to a 100 mil cable or something like that, then Bunch of make it a bit. Oh, I mean given the size of the fan that we're talking about and the you know The open nature of most of this case. I don't think that's really there's nothing really blocking it I measured you can get a 40 by 40 by 10 millimeter fan inside the enclosure if you didn't want to mount it to the outside It'll fit with the current design of the audio chamber and And clearances and what we're doing that air flowing from like from one side to the other right like yeah more or less Yeah, basically I want to get flow across the surface of the SJ201 Yeah, and so what I'm saying is they're like, you know, if you've got these ribbon that's sitting here And you like fall to the fan to the outside and it's got the Directly pushing against the ribbon or pulling against the ribbon We changed it up. Yeah, we've changed up a little bit because you've got a All right, so that's some fun little insight into the world of hardware design That brings me the question I had about all this was not are any of these changes Fundamental enough that we should have those of us that have laser cutting closures should get Newer versions or are these more of just cosmetically you you will get newer versions as soon as we have it settled I will put a flat pack on the ship from there everybody. Um, one of the things I need everybody to do is assemble one Um, you know, Michael's direction was they'd be able to do it with nothing but a screwdriver Derek and I had a discussion yesterday. I think it's unlikely that that's going to be possible Um, either I'm pretty dexterous and I have trouble getting those nuts in those slots I need to use a pair of needle nose pliers to put the nuts in so whether probably gonna need A pair of needle nose pliers and a screwdriver or a pair of tweezers But I mean you could do it with just a screwdriver if you had teeny tiny fingers, you know, but I Yeah, so But anyway, I need everybody to build them so that So that is instruction suck we can fix them Yeah, I've come up with some methods that you can do it like get the way you hold it and stuff, but it's it's a little tricky So Yeah, I've put together Put together mine a few times now. So like you kind of get better at it the more the more you do it and The order of operations and and how you hold the case as you're like You know hold the nut in and all that sort of stuff. So if there's a way to we can improve that then great, but Yeah, I Oh, hey, that reminds me. Are we in setting all of the nuts into the plastic with a soldering iron? Well, Josh and I talked about that Yesterday too and the idea would be yes, that would be included with our Okay, our kidding assembly process. So Um, we would not put that on the end user Okay. Yeah, so we have to we have to add that to our kidding process Yeah, yeah, and moak I can moak and do them on the the ones that are that she's making but the And as part of the process which you know, I'm comfortable with but The laser cut company whoever's doing the laser cutting probably won't have that ability. Yeah I think that's something that are You know Assembly partner can handle Right I've got a I've got a patent attorney in seven minutes. So I'm gonna talk that we Chang reached out wants to talk and I don't know if that's good news or bad news So we'll see. Okay, but um, if I can if I can go first, that would be great. Uh, let's go. So I've all right, so, um So I built this one yesterday photographed the entire process It works out really well. Like these are the the way this audio chamber is set in here with Derek's new tabs it's rock solid with the the The rubber insulators in there even with the a rubber isolators in there. It's great Um, so these are the flat pack stuff is in pretty darn good shape and we're pretty happy with it We've come up with suppliers for pretty much everything. Um, we're still tweaking the last few things all of the major parts are on order You know, there is a little bit of who knows because of the christmas season and the delays in shipping But um, we appear to be in in really good shape to get these out the door The I think that the limiting factor is going to be the sj201s Um, our goal would be to have everything else totally 1000% done having everybody Already assembled these by you know, all the team doing building one themselves so that we can get feedback on the process And have all the parts in a kit ready to go and when the sj201s roll in from from wherever they're being manufactured You know, we would test them shove them in a kit and get them in the mail So we're we're we're in pretty good shape on that side of things um I also ran a a little informal economic analysis on the mark one Where we spent 25 000 on molds and only made 2500 units meaning that the mold Non-recurring cost per unit is $10, right and then we paid a couple bucks each for each piece for the plastics um You know looking at that in the context of the mark two It may make sense for us to to 3d print the mark twos in bulk for some of the early users and Um, we may because that manufacturing process is going to be a little different It may make sense to have the folks who are willing to take a 3d printed enclosure Move to the front of the line for shipment and then you know Folks who want to wait for an injection molded enclosure would move to the back of the line So that's something that we're we're talking about and consider All right, thanks um So guess let's we'll go backwards today uh, yeah, I um helped Eric a bit with uh clinic fun, uh and networking stuff Uh some marketing stuff which which you know is an unfortunate necessity of running a business But it's not really what I want to spend my time doing. Um, and uh, and then the rest of the day was focused on tweeting Ken stuff so that um, we Have it configurable. Um, since I've only got the the rev three still wanted to to get that configurable from uh config parameters uh and and then building the The rev four requirements into the the current debuff recipes so we can we can test that out. Um a bit more easily Today I'll be um testing out yeah, trying to trying to get that working on the on the rev three and Yeah, getting back to Pandacore and and making sure they're ready for the uh for the demo tomorrow morning Um, yeah Okay, do you do you have an update on the current state of the Pandacore image building process? Is it are they able to you know repeatedly build images that are getting incrementally better or are we kind of stuck on anything or Yeah, there was uh some Regressions with the with the audio permissions, but I think they've been sorted out. Um, I haven't tested this morning yet um But yeah, they are incrementally getting better. Um It's they they hadn't had any of the the extra sj201 stuff in there yet. So it was all you know based on usb You know having having sound devices available by usb. So um all the report stuff should be in there By now I would think um, but I have to check where they got to overnight, right? Okay. Yeah That's still your very early morning for you. So I get it. Uh, okay. Thanks. Um Derek How are things going? Hey, y'all. Um, so yeah, uh, we kind of talked a little bit about hardware stuff um balloting some of that plus, um ordering Uh chris. I'm working with chris there on ordering Um, she's mostly doing it, but you know, she has some anytime she needs to clarify something She's been coming to me So that's been going well. Um I think with the latest things we got the dsi cables Moving And we're still Waiting for the cameras. Um, but I think we've got that figured out And heat sinks and and so on so forth Uh, and then the rest of the time I was just kind of working with with kin I'm trying to get the sj201s I have up and going. Um And I I'm just seeing some funky stuff outside of the the image itself that I'm not sure what was Like as mentioned he helped me a little bit yesterday with networking stuff Um appears the I cannot get wi-fi to work properly On this build and I'm not sure where that's coming from it's Um Could could have been present for a while and might have something specific to my network setup. I don't know Um, but it works fine. Um on ethernet But uh on wi-fi I can ping things I can you know, it gets again IP address assigned to it and I can hit the internet, but I can't uh ssh into it and I Um, don't don't know what's causing that So, uh, yeah, then we just we were trying to get uh, we got everything to work but the mic So we've got the buttons working. We've got audio output working I've got leds working, but um, yeah the mic mic is isn't working right now. So that's kind of where we're at Yeah, so So that's where we're at with that and I think uh for the remainder today I'd like to can give me one last thing to try so I'll give that a shot And um, now I'm gonna try and get these updates that josh has requested on the laser cut design Okay, great um, yeah, so Yeah, okay, I'll get to that Chris fair Sure today has not been a particularly productive day for me. My wife and I are starting to prepare for my my daughter's 18th birthday on saturday, so um So, yeah, that's kind of a big deal going on in my household. Um, I have I did still a little bit more work on the document as with as far as Uh, the agreements information and maybe splitting it into some other ones. I also read through chris, um, had a had a pass at it I read through some of those things so like michael, I don't know if that makes I don't think there's anything materially different at least from You know what we came up with but um It might be worth making sure that we're all on the same page with that um, and I've started looking at getting some gira tickets to find for um for the work on The new account membership stuff And once I get that done, um, I'll start the work So hopefully tomorrow Okay, great. Well, um Yeah, I mean it's important to celebrate important milestones like this so totally understand And congratulations Any reasonable dowry offers yet You just like even being drinking age is 21 there, right? Yes. Yes it is The legal drinking age although there are exemptions for the college, but you know, it's It's a good thought there are exemptions for for religious purposes and uh in your own home In a lot of places as well So with adult supervision. So anyway Um, which is of course the way all kids want to do that, right? So anyway, um Uh ken Right, so i'm working on the mark four or the uh sj201 rev four for the mark two and Um other than the microphones everything's working fine. Uh Um Other than recording Which isn't really that important a function for a minute a second wait a second. Yeah, I thought you had recording working before Yeah, so, uh recording has been, um An issue and I don't think it's hardware I believe it to be software configuration of some sort But uh, it was one of the earliest uh concerns I had when I first unpacked it and got it running You go back and look at my first emails to kevin. It's like it doesn't record and um, you know, I just like late last night I thought I had it nailed My device is my two qt images That i'll boot will you know work fine and record fine Uh, but I do have some issues on the newer one Uh regarding using the a record command line And you know, it was working and then sometimes I booted it's not so so the bottom line is I just don't know what's going on there I'll work with kevin in the morning On a fresh qt install and he can possibly hook up scopes and see what's going on Uh, and we'll see what's cooking, but Yeah, um other than The microphones everything works great Is it uh is the recording aspect? Um That's that's the opposite of the problem we were having before right We were having trouble with playback before so that's that's interesting. Uh, but um, is it an issue where if it boots up Then it's just fine and it stays fine Or or you know No, it's an issue that once I seem to get it working mycroft runs fine Um, and I don't have to do anything ever again, but I'm still early into the problem So like I said, it was late last night when I finally thought I had it now So both of these work We know uh derrick's we couldn't get working So, you know, I don't know what of the million things I've touched Was the important thing and I have to go back and unravel that so After the meeting tonight, I'll spend the rest of the night going through that and then I'll give kevin a couple hours to wake up in the morning And then we'll go through it step by step and see what we can figure out But again, I don't think it's a hardware issue. I suspect it's software. I will I will note this though I inadvertently had left in the usb cable slash micro usb adapter And since there's no usb now, I noticed I was getting errors in my dmessage file And that I and since I removed that they went away So whether that had anything to do with it or not, I don't know I I suspect not because unless derrick has a usb cable plugged into his too then you know but anyway, so i'm still early in the Trying to chase down the issue All right, cool Let's see Well, I could I could ask kevin to give us a quick update, but I know what he's going to say and Not all that's necessarily ready for for public consumption, so we'll talk about that afterwards Um Let's see uh, and as for me, um, you know, I'm I'm just trying to help out with finalizing the hardware Stuff there's a few remaining issues like there's the the headphones Turns out we misunderstood how the ti chip works and the headphone output is not what we thought it was um It's a totally bonkers chip design that has a completely parallel Analog path through amplifier for some reason. I don't know what that's good for um, so, uh, kevin and I have been going back and forth on different ideas on how to get the headphone output to work Since we promised that to people and the There's some other little issues, you know with parts in terms of the the fan that we discussed earlier and some grommets for um Isolating the the audio mechanically So, you know those last little bits and pieces the pcba is a big one We need to nail down the the final gerber files so that we can start getting real quotes on the pcba stuff And uh, then we you know, we're gonna have to start talking about the test jig So that we can test all the sj201s when they roll off the line that sort of thing so Um, yeah, that's what that's where I've been focused in the last day or so Um, so any questions any any other issues people need to bring up or any other follow-up conversations we need to have okay so Yeah, ken and kevin are going to get together tomorrow try to get the red four boards uh software up and running And um I will review The uh the comments that you made guys. I I did see those come in In my cursory look as they kind of scrolled by on my notifications. They all looked like reasonable suggestions and or intimations With your questions, but I will uh, I'll I'll respond to those as soon as I get a chance to So all right, well, we're we're still in the in the final throws of trying to get this hardware out So let's get back to it