 All right, I think we have a pretty good number and we're about three or four minutes in, so we're going to go ahead and get started. So once again, welcome everyone wherever you are around the world. So good morning. Good afternoon. Good night. If you're joining us in the earlier or late hours. Welcome to this panel discussion we are really excited so today we'll be talking about from fellowship to leadership, women in engineering for sustainable development. So for our panel today will really be focusing in on and hearing from our panelists about how they got to their current role some challenges and opportunities that are that they face in some particular to women, and how all together to ease these challenges and understanding some of their perspectives on leadership. First off, a little bit of housekeeping and just kind of getting warmed up. As you're joining in just go ahead and type in the chat, where you're from, and or where you are currently either one, just so we can have a sense of of who we're talking to here. It's early here in the US on the East Coast but we really wanted to speak to our community in Africa and Asia and Europe as well so just let us know where you are. Got camera room also camera and also Kenya, Netherlands, Ghana. There we go all right. Australia, great this is what we're hoping, bringing in all the sides of the world, Sweden will great keep feel free to keep dropping those in. But we will get into the meat of our, our discussion today. So, before we move on to chatting with our presenters, I will hand it off to my colleague and co moderator Francisco to talk a little bit about engineering for change. So Francisco, take it away. So yeah, thanks, and welcome everyone we're so excited to finally be able to speak to our audience in Europe, Asia, Africa, it's a little bit early for us. But we have some good news the chat is now enabled so feel free to use it as you need and excited to see everybody joining. I'm, I'm calling from Ecuador in South America. It's 4am here. And yeah, so before we get started. And it was myself my name is Francisco Plaza and my junior program specialist in engineering for change. And I oversee our marketing and internal operations and I also super implementing some specific impact services mostly focus on into entrepreneurship and innovation. I'm a mechanical engineer by training and I also was an engineer for change fellow in 2021. So, before we move on to our presenters I like to tell you about a bit about engineering for change or if you foresee for short that we'd like to call it. So engineering for change is a nonprofit organization dedicated to preparing, educating and activating the international technical workforce worldwide to improve the quality of life of people on the planet. And the way we do this is by believing and cultivating in the next generation of change makers by providing them knowledge and training opportunities as well as access to expertise. Overall what we look is to infuse engineering sustainable development worldwide at every level of every organization. And that is what we strive daily for. So, how we do mobilize our technical talent at engineering for change we have a proven model for understanding the critical sign in implementation and research needs of social impact organizations, which can be addressed by the diverse technical talent in the foresee community. And with technical talent we refer to more than just engineers we look and courage for diverse backgrounds and perspectives. And as a quick example, we do have active projects in the architecture space and during our fellowship we encourage that type of interactions between you know, engineers or architects as part of our daily work. So about the project we host. So we work with diverse organizations ranging from academic institutions to social enterprises private sectors multilateral agencies. We also design and to define a what we call impact projects where at E4C we can deliver transformative support in different formats and we have different three different streams. We do impact research which is basically Taylor and specialized research for a particular objective we do design for good which is design work at every level and then we do some advancing workflows with which is looking to optimize and innovate in their organizations processes. Just as a quick overall example when I was a fellow I work at the design for good aspect of our fellowship and I work designing a high efficiency solar fridge for a Californian startup that was going to be marketed in Africa. So that's the level of connections that engineering for change can do for you and that's why I am the most excited to be working for change so imagine myself and Ecuadorian working with a Californian startup for a project and product in Africa. That was an fantastic opportunity that I was able to have a because of the E4C fellowship. So about the E4C fellows and I believe and we believe that E4C fellows are part of our secret cells at E4C. And what we do is we source talented young early career professionals through our fellowship program and we pair them with an impact project that will use their skills and experience and boost it. So at the same time we also lean on the insights and strategic guidance of our global network of multidisciplinary experts in our community of rising engineers, scientists and architects globally to support the fellows during their stay at E4C. So we focus on building capacity while doing projects that matter. Our program is virtual since day one and our fellows do receive an estimate during their work with engineering for change. So about our fellowship cohort of last year so since 2014 we awarded more than 200 fellowship young professionals representing over 40 nationalities with a strong focus on diversity and equity and inclusion with about 50% of women participating since 2014. So here we hosted 40% female and fellows for a total of 57 fellows of 24 nationalities. As you can see the broader aspect of engineering for change we are worldwide ranging from United States to Singapore. Finally, before I hand it over to Leah to kick us off with a panel introduction and I'm happy to announce that the E4C fellowship for this year the cohort applications are now open. And we have this year more than 20 projects worldwide and the intersection of engineering and sustainable development. So yeah, we're looking forward to receive your applications and have you as fellows. And yeah, back to you. Thank you for that Francisco. We really wanted to give a bit of an overview of our fellowship because it's open, and that was one of the motivations for this panel is to really give different perspectives not only of the fellowship, but also of what are the pathways that come after it so if you're in your career and engineering for sustainable development, not in for sustainable development, we want you to kind of have a feel for not only where you can start but also where you can go with within this career. So as we get into our panel discussion, one quick announcement. Unfortunately, one of our panelists, Wambui Nyaberro had a personal emergency and won't be able to join us. So obviously we wish her the best in her situation and hopefully it'll come to a speedy resolution. To provide a bit of the perspective that she would share as an innovator, not necessarily the same but I will be wearing two hats today. So one as a moderator, and then another one sharing a little bit from my experience working with startups. So, with that vein I'll tell you a little bit more about myself as a panelist. So next slide Francisco. So first, my name is Leah Putman I am a senior program specialist with engineering for change. However, as a panelist I will be wearing my, my former hat, which was as technical director of a social enterprise sustainable health enterprises, or she for short which operated in Rwanda. I was part of that from 2017 until 2019 right up until just before the pandemic. And so what we did that she was to make sanitary napkins using locally available materials on that case it was banana fibers. And so among my responsibilities was everything from product and process development and really coordinating our massive goals for scale up of achieving 10 x capacity. In my time there as well as looking at what are the ways that we can do this to be financially stable. And a bit of a spoiler that didn't end up working out so we weren't able to to reach the scale that we needed to solve provide a little bit of that perspective of what it was like to work in a startup, and also kind of what happens when when the start up doesn't end up being successful and continuing on. But with that I will turn it over to our other panelists, starting with Shannon, a former fellow Shannon. Hi everyone, my name is Shannon. I'm really excited to be here thank you everyone for coming. I have a very diverse educational background, I have a bachelor in biomedical and mechanical engineering, but then I decided to specialize in manufacturing engineering. And I just love inventions and academia in general so I'll always be studying something. My passion lies in humanitarian projects. So I was able to really express this passion through being an E for C fellow just last year. And it was definitely one of my highlights of my engineering career. I would still say I'm in the early stage so or early career stage, as I'm definitely still figuring out which specific industry I would like to settle in. But currently, I work in a work industry as chief engineer at a metal factory. But coincidentally I will be starting a new career next week in the academia environment at U of T, where I'll be helping engineers bring their sustainable solutions into the real world. Well that's fantastic. Congratulations on your new work and we definitely look forward to hearing your perspectives from metal manufacturing and how you're making these transitions. So next up, we'll pass it on to our final panelists Eva Cheng. Eva. Thanks Leah and congratulations Shannon excited to hear about your new role and also to hear that you love academia because I must say I also do, as you can see from what I'm working on at the moment. So I'm currently leading an academic school in our faculty of engineering and it at the University of Technology in Sydney and previous to this role I've been leading a gender equity program, looking at gender inclusion and engineering and it and that's definitely a very passionate space of mine. So most recently my connection to engineering for change has been through participating as a 2020 22 have changed years if I see innovations here and committee member and my training in the engineering background has been in telecommunications where I am now is in teaching I found that my happy place is in education. So where I'm contributing to engineering for sustainable development is in university education and bringing opportunities and experiences to students, which is exciting because I'm bringing the world to the classroom and the classroom into the world. And in the Australian context that means I collaborate a lot with engineers that borders Australia, and in my own volunteering work with a women in engineering group in two or less days so very happy to be with you all on the call today and hope we have a good discussion. We definitely appreciate your perspectives as with your background and gender equity, and all the work in voluntary work you're doing in the sector. So as we jump into the panel discussion, want to just give a little bit of quick background. What does engineering for sustainable development means so we discuss this with our panelists to make sure we're on the same page, and we also wanted to get you So when we're discussing it here today, what we mean by engineering for sustainable development we mean applying engineering and technical expertise to improve the quality of life for people in the planet. So that's probably the simplest definition that we can give. And this includes working towards SDGs or and maybe some disciplines and sectors of engineering that you may have heard of like humanitarian engineering or global engineering. What we really think of when we're saying engineering for sustainable development it's really bringing all of these things together, as opposed to trying to understand what are the specific differences between them. So we just want you to kind of keep that in mind. As we get started with our panel discussion. And so to start us off we will first be talking a little bit about getting started and an early career and then for these questions on Francisco will be moderating so Francisco, take it away. Alright, thanks Leah and as Leah just mentioned, the first part of this panel will be talking about early career and asking these questions but because I'm early career myself, so I can empathize a little bit on what is going to be asked. So, for all the panelists we can probably kick it off with Shannon and then with Eva. So all of you have careers or interest is interest in sustainability and sustainable development. What is your entry point to this type of work. Yeah, so I can start us off here. I actually didn't even know what sustainable development meant until after I joined you for C. And the term sustainable development was something that I never really thought to try to define myself. So the opportunity at you for C stood out to me because of the real world impact that I myself could put into action. And I found out that while pursuing my degree in university, I somewhat hid behind books with the long term objective to obtain my degree. But engineering has such a powerful potential, like potential to give someone a better life or positively impact the community. Or even a city it boils down to be able to put that knowledge into practice and you for C definitely gave me that real world opportunity. So being a fellow last year has taught me that it doesn't matter where you are in the world. There is a real positive difference on a community, literally across the globe, and making this impact that matters seeing our engineering practices make an actual difference was my passion. So through you for C, I learned that my passion is actually entirely directly linked to the term sustainable development. So I'm doing our engineering and technical expertise just to improve the quality of life for people all over the globe, and it encompasses United Nations SDGs, humanitarian engineering, global engineering, etc. So although I'm still navigating career paths. I know that tackling sustainable development through my unique engineering skillset is what I want to do. And so if there is someone in the audience who can relate to this, I would definitely encourage to ask yourself, how can you leverage your current academic training to improve global issues present in our society today. So that would be your entry work into our entry point into this kind of work. Yeah, I know that thanks for that for sharing that, and I love what you said our sustainable development getting everywhere like and important everywhere and just how we can start finding some pathways and promoting every industry as we keep growing. And this becomes even more important with SDGs and, and, you know, current friends. With that, I'll open to Eva. Eva, please share us with you your perspective. Thanks Francisco and I must say I share a little bit of passion for engineering with Shannon in terms of the impact that we can have you know engineers design things generally to improve people's lives. So that's how I first got into engineering is through my degree. And I must admit I did love research so I started a PhD and I was procrastinating a lot. And when I was procrastinating, I actually discovered my passion for social justice through volunteering because there's a lot of social justice activities at the university and. Yes, I didn't spend a lot of time doing research in those years but I actually found what I really wanted to do. So I did a lot of volunteering with nonprofits, including Oxfam we started an organization on campus. But there was also something that wasn't quite enough. I really love engineering. I love my technical capabilities and skills and design, and I couldn't quite see how that fitted into the work of other engineers at the time. And that's why I discovered engineers without borders and all the dots connected in my procrastination world. So that's kind of where I've started and continued. And that's also where I teach today. And I'll also share the at the time I'm going to show my age a little bit with the telecommunications engineering background I didn't always see how I fit in to the humanitarian engineering or sustainable development sector at the stage because there was a lot of work in water and sanitation and infrastructure. I know nothing about civil, mechanical and electrical engineering, but I think the world has changed. I see a lot of work for ICT engineers and IT professionals as well and most projects I've seen in the last six months have been around data management. So I very much feel at home now and I'm glad I've kind of persisted and just kept with my curiosity to meet with new people and just get involved in stuff. Thank you. Such an interesting journey and yeah I agree like even with SDGs, SDG9 which is infrastructure, it's going to connect a lot of that work so exciting and also want to remark what you mentioned about procrastination and this might be current but I do believe there is a benefit of you know procrastinating just creating that room for serendipity to happen. So happy that you share that. Moving to our next question and I guess we can go in the same order. So it is for both panelists how did you navigate uncertainty at the earliest stages in your career to determine that you wanted to continue with you within space we know that this is a challenging environment. I'm just not really clear so how did you navigate that particular challenges and Shannon. I'm definitely the one to answer any question regarding uncertainty. Shannon in the career space has always been something that scared me, and a common response I got from someone who viewed my CV or resume was what a mess. It's all over the place. Are you a biomedical engineer or are you a mechanical engineer because it says both on your resume. So I often question what I want to do, whether this is the right path, etc. This may sound cliche but do what makes you happy do work that doesn't feel like work. And I knew I love tackling sustainable development. So pursuing E4C made it a career for me. And if it's not working, I would be self reflective and ask yourself, why do you feel uncertain in this job or path. Remind yourself of what makes you get up in the morning. So for me personally, I don't really navigate uncertainty in my career because navigating implies that you're aiming for a destination. I don't have a destination the journey is just as important as the path, or, or as the results sorry. So focus on the journey right in front of you. Be happy. Take it day by day and if you need to and just keep options open build your network and do what you love. Thanks for sharing that and I'm 100% really relatable with that to be all over the place. I am a mechanical engineer doing marketing. So I kind of like relate to that. Eva, what are your thoughts. Yeah, I think taking an interest in what you do is just super important, you know, life's too short to be doing things for other people's reasons. So how I kind of dealt with the uncertainty of my technical skills how I could connect out to my interest and passion social justice was just curiosity. When things would come up that were of interest and I was just wanting to find out what I could do how I could contribute I put my hand up for things. So volunteering for things, getting on to communities, going on to trips, projects, you just never know what happened if you just volunteer yourself to contribute. And that's where I met a lot of people who are in this space, because we're not necessarily always visible about the work that we're doing because we're very busy doing the work. So I would just say please do not be shy. I've never heard someone say no please don't come and give some time and resources to us. So as of the kind of where I sit now with sustainable engineering, I will also share that I was never sure whether I wanted to do fieldwork, or whether I wanted to stay in academia because engineering for a practical. So I went and applied for a placement overseas, just about a year and a half ago, and I loved it, but I realized I love education more, but I wouldn't have figured that out if I hadn't done it. I think 100% get curious, get out there. Nothing's going to go wrong. You're just going to have a great journey and learn a lot and meet some fabulous people. Thanks for for sharing that if I don't really kind of like love what you said about volunteering I just kind of like get the work and just kind of like the experience before deciding I think it's fantastic and volunteering seems to be a great way to get your feet in the door. I also would like to ask this question to, to Leah, what do you think about this. I really agree with what Shannon and Eva said about really being curious. So, I think early on in my career. I first worked with an engineering society, biomedical engineering society doing meeting planning. So I think one thing that I would say is, if you don't see your ideal job, look for something or an opportunity that has some aspect that interests you. So with that one, it was simply the fact that I had the opportunity, if I did a good job to be able to go to this research meeting and talk with a bunch of people in the field which ended up being really beneficial and helpful for building my network. I can say I probably had the biggest biomedical engineering network of any of my sophomore peers, because I had gone to this conference and had worked in it. I think really navigating uncertainty came down to, again, that curiosity and just trying things. It's like, okay, I'm not sure about 60% of this, but 40% sounds good. And since I'm not exactly sure where I want to go, let's, let's find out about that 40%. Yeah, for sure. I love what you said about just focusing on what you want to learn from that particular experience. Moving to our next question, again, for all our panelists. So, we're talking about early careers and how important are those early development opportunities, you know, like D4C fellowship or orders in launching your career. How relevant do you see this type of opportunities? Maybe we can go Eva and then Shannon. I think these early opportunities are really important, and it's a great opportunity, but it's not essential. You know, I would say I discovered this area quite late. It was in my postgraduate studies, so I'd already done a good five years at university. So it's never too late. But again, on the curiosity thing, get curious as soon as you're comfortable too, because then you have time on your hands to discover what your journey could be. And it's always okay to not exactly know where you're going. I think Shannon alluded to this before. If anyone had asked me five, 10 years ago, would I be working in this space as an academic in sustainable engineering development or leading agenda equity program? I'd be like, no, who's going to pay me to do that? But, you know, as you develop your skills and your network, people will see the value and appreciate the value. And if the opportunity doesn't yet exist, you can co-create it with people. So I think the earlier you get involved, the more time you have to find out where you want to be. Thanks for sharing that, Eva. I love what you mentioned right there. Shannon, what's your take? Yeah, so these early development opportunities will tremendously shake you into who you will be personally but professionally as well. If you have the slightest bit of interest in pursuing an opportunity, I would trust that gut feeling and go for it. Early opportunities will never be a waste. It is an opportunity for growth and can help define your interests and passions for the future. So for example, I had no idea that my underlying passion was directly correlated with sustainable development. The one piece of advice I would give though is I would encourage anyone to at least apply if there is the slightest bit of interest. And I say this because the E4C cohort can be considered prestigious and it is a network of people, some of the brightest individuals around the world who are exceptional in their own field. I thought I wouldn't be a competitive applicant at all, but you must try. The first step is applying and show your passion if it's there. I wanted to badly be a part of this group where everyone shares the same interests and strong passion for collectively making groundbreaking solutions for sustainable development. So personally, I would rather try and receive, say, a rejection letter than to not have tried at all. Thanks so much. We appreciate your feedback and opinion around the fellowship. Just to emphasize that we do value a lot of passion in the field as we also provide the training. With this stable space, please do not think that you need to have it to apply. If you are interested and passionate about it, we'll take that as a yes. So yeah, 100% we use Shannon. So I'm going to transition back to Leah to moderate the second part of the panel. But just as a conclusion, we're talking about early career and I think the topic is being just curiosity, be curious and there to explore. I think that's what we are kind of like coming back in this type of early career advice. Leah, back to you. Yeah, so I definitely agree curiosity was definitely a theme there. Being comfortable being uncertain was also something that came up and I think another one which will be important as we move on and talk about career growth and challenges was a little bit came up about about networking. So those I imagine those themes will come up again later. But as we just talk about career growth and applying for these early career positions and positions throughout. So everything, every job description talks about skills, what are the skills that you need, what's a skill set that they're looking for, and how are you going to use those skills to do a good job. And of course the fellowship is one example but this is honestly everywhere. So maybe we can start off with you Shannon with this question. From your experience, what are the skills that someone might need to be successful working in sustainable development. Yeah, so the United Nations has developed 17 goals that the planet needs for peace and prosperity, and they are known as sustainable development goals the SDGs. And these goals are some of the world's most difficult challenges to solve. They can include poverty or the scarcity of water. And climate in action and so forth. So because of the scale of these goals and the geographical regions that they span to, I personally find that working well in teams that are multicultural diverse, working remotely is so incredibly important. Learning how to best interact with other engineers who live in a different time zone, or who has access to different engineering softwares who operate with different engineering standards, but collectively coming up with a solution is extremely critical and I think we highlighted this skill set for me. Remote teamwork and international communication. Yes, I think, especially as we become more connected and certainly post COVID that remote work and collaboration will continue to be increasingly increasingly important in the field as a bit of a follow up and then turning this to do you ever. I think the skills or perhaps a mindset that you felt were more critical to develop to help you better navigate your work and your career progression and and maybe even more as a woman. So you can share your perspective. I might just quickly respond to the skills. I think I love the skills that Shannon, Shannon shared, but environments change and we change and system change so we're never always going to have all the skills that we think we need or that are listed. I think what's important is this mindset of wanting to give back to sustainable development and being willing to learn new things to adapt and to work with different people because you will learn what you need in the context in which you need it. I think we need to have all of the skills that are on job applications or any other applications that you might be thinking of. If you're interested in it, I 150% back Shannon's point about just apply because what's going to go wrong, right, you might get rejected, and then ask for feedback. You know, once I applied for a scholarship and I think I applied three times because I just really wanted it. And they gave me feedback every time and I was just going to persist until they gave it to me, and they did. I'll also like to share the linking back to the previous point about early opportunities. The fellowship was very exciting to me when I first learned about in 2018 because I could see it was something missing in the education sector to introduce sustainable engineering development to students. I also knew that they didn't have the skills that were listed on there, but I knew that they could get there because of where they wanted to go and the mindsets and experiences that they wanted to jump into. So that for me was enough to put them forward. Thank you for that. Yes, and I think it's great to share and great to hear that you don't need to have all the skills that really just being willing to learn and grow and having that mindset about learning is helpful. I think maybe something to keep in mind as everyone here is looking for that next opportunity, whether it's the fellowship or a job or scholarship, or maybe even applying to university. So shifting gears a little bit. Anytime we interact with people and their their relationships Shannon you talked about remote collaboration so there's and working with people around the world there are different dynamics or different cultures, different power dynamics that we need to kind of sense, to navigate and so often in a working environment this could be like work or office politics. But sometimes that might be taking it down too small so we'll start off with you Ava how have you dealt with some of these power dynamics or relationship issues in your work and this can be whether it's being novice versus experienced gender or socio economic any of these things. Great question and I wish someone had asked me 10 years ago because I would have had a very different answer. I used to hide from politics. I just wanted to get on with what I wanted to do the impact that I wanted to make, and I would just avoid workplace politics. But I'll be older. Now I'm aware of it. I don't always necessarily accept it because of my I guess mindset towards social justice why do power dynamics exist. We don't have to just experience them and deal with it as it is we do have opportunity to change here. So awareness. Over hide I spent a lot of time observing. So what is happening in the space in which I'm trying to do my work and trying to make a impact, who is that who is not there, who are making the decisions who are influencing those who are making the decisions the people who are speaking may not always be the influences, but also be mindful on who's not included who's not there and understanding where why that might be. I spend a lot of time observing and also speaking to people to make sure that I understand the context. I do struggle a lot with power dynamics and politics and in the workplace because I always think, you know, if we were collaborative to get out towards a common does this necessarily need to exist but humans are humans. So it is what it is. I think to watch change because especially in a university which is very hierarchical you know we're built on hierarchy I work in an engineering faculty where there is gender imbalance I'm very mindful on what is my realm of concern and what is my realm of control, where I can contribute to narrowing the power distances that I do from the classroom to the teams that I work in to be very mindful of not introducing more power dynamics so yeah it's a tricky question. And you answered it very beautifully I think it's really good to focus in on what we can control and how we can contribute positively and not add to these things that can often detract from our goal and our primary mission. Because yes these do exist but as you said we're all humans but that's not why we all studied engineering that's not why we want to work in this space. So shifting to you Shannon maybe going a little bit beyond power dynamics, but if you want to answer on that that's fine. Can you share about a challenge that you faced in your career and maybe how you overcame it or if it's something going on now, kind of what you're doing to tackle it. Yeah, absolutely. In general I would say commitment. I am at a fork between choosing the work industry in academia. I never know whether the path I'm currently on is right. And this is something I am tackling every single day. But I have went through a tremendous amount of self reflection, and going back to what I previously mentioned, it ultimately boils down to what you love to do. And what is currently helping me is reaching out to people talking to people talking to people who have different experiences than you. And so I've, I'm very grateful to have a lot of mentors, people in my inner circle, even just talking to family. Just putting yourself out there, expanding your network. Just learning, learning through people. It's something I am tackling every single day. But yeah, I would say just gathering self confidence self esteem and commitment to commit to a single path. Thanks for that. I hope and think that as continue to gather information and experiences that you'll find the path that is worth committing to based on your goals and kind of your, your own passions. I think for me in this space one challenge that that I faced when I was working, whether it was with a startup or and sort of an established company was kind of what you face when you're working in developing new products and new technology and that's kind of what happens when it doesn't work out. So whether it was in a, in a space where I was in a larger company, you know, I had coworkers who they were working on a project and it didn't end up launching so now you have a bunch of development engineers and they need to find new jobs whether it's internal or externally. And it actually looked much the same as kind of the experience that I went through when I was working with with she was sustainable health enterprises. And I really think the the main way to kind of overcome this is really to chart your own career path. And I say that as in you can kind of get comfortable, get in a place and you're like oh this is nice and you become a little bit passive in your own career as opposed to thinking oh what could be cool to do next. The next thing that I want to learn what's sort of the next place that might be interesting to kind of move into. Because when you think about those things then you're set up for sort of the what ifs, even before you know it so when I was working with she I happened to start looking into some courses, specifically around understanding what I was doing which was converting agricultural that led me somehow into a specific design school. And when we found out that hey we were running out of funding and doesn't look like we'll be able to renew. I was able to then apply fully for that program that I was exposed to just during my my online coursework. And I think, yeah for me I can say that, taking that time to think about hey what's what's interesting me, what's interesting to me now in my career can be really helpful in terms of going forward and I think that's actually quite similar to what you were saying Shannon about just gathering information, and about, you know staying curious and really not being complacent. This can be really relevant within engineering for sustainable development where often you have shorter term jobs where you know with development organizations, it's a six month or a year or two year kind of position, where you really need to kind of think of oh I'm learning this cool stuff and this is where I want to go. So, thank you both. And actually Shannon you mentioned talking to your mentors and allies. So we'll get into that. A little bit more here in the next section, which Francisco will be talking about just that mentors how to find them and also a little bit about sponsorship and how I share Francisco. Thanks Leah and this is a topic that excites me quite a lot, given that I'm also traveling to you know finding the right mentor and that's a topic that I found particularly interesting. And also just to shout out what you were mentioning about continuous development opportunities to just keep growing as you're working I think that's fantastic and, and just want to shout out that particular topic that you guys covered. So, Shannon, and as Leah mentioned you talked about a friend to your mentor so we all have people who help us to get where we are you know mentor coaches sponsors teachers, maybe a book off into this category so think one of such person feel free to shout them out and tell us how they help you to get into your current position. Yeah, so I am someone who is very vocal, especially with any difficulties that arise in my daily life. I wouldn't say that there is just one person who has helped me get where I am today. Or who I am today. So it's so important to me to have this inner circle of people who I trust that can that I can turn to, and each person has their own strengths. So depending on what kind of support I need. It may be better to turn to one person over the other. It's simply because they have lived through the experience before and they can offer better advice, or perhaps the other person just simply listens better. So collectively, I feel that this inner circle comprise of maybe six, seven people has been extremely valuable mentors in my life. Friends, professors, family, they can be anyone who would help you reach your goals in a heartbeat, and who wouldn't judge you for anything. Thanks for for sharing that Shannon and kind of like moving to our next question. I just want to provide a bit context on so when we are in a certain careers I do believe we are really vulnerable also to bad advice. So we are also really really really receptive to good advice. I still when advice is no bad advice or you're reaching out to the wrong person and that's something I personally experienced myself and when deciding my career pathway that someone just gave me bad advice and I realized he was bad advice like five years in the future. So, kind of like on that context. How did you find your helper mentor, can you give up by any advice on how someone can seek out to such a person and initiate this type of relationships. During the E4C fellowship. I had a mentor. I was extremely ambitious to deliver the best that I can give. And I would be easily upset with myself, if I fell short from what I expected the result to be, or if I didn't deliver my best. So during the E4C, every fellow was assigned to an expert fellow, and this fellow is truly an expert. They have been in your shoes before they're there to guide you support you talk to you, everything. As completing the E4C fellowship was one of my greatest endeavors. I need to express my greatest gratitude to my expert fellow. Her name is Kyla Strickler, and the opportunity to be mentored by expert fellows like Kyla is one of E4C's greatest incentives, because these fellows are so accomplished and unique and they inspire me to adopt their leadership and follow their footsteps to achieve even greater things in sustainable development. Thanks for sharing that, Shana. I love that you shout out Kyla. Like I personally love Kyla. I think she's fantastic. And what is interesting, I just want to like do a quick overview, like Kyla was a fellow as you were. She was a fellow in my cohort. We were in the same small group, so we interacted quite a lot. We actually bonded so well that we did a quick road trip together through a quarter with Kyla and we kind of like, it was fun because it was an engineering trip. Plus, I mean, because we were speaking basically 100% of the time engineering work and our fellowship work, but also it was kind of like just a nice and networking opportunity. So that's all some of the stuff that tends to happen in the Union for Change Fellowship. And it's excited to know that Kyla has grown so much since I interacted with her in 2021. So Eva, shifting to you, shifting from a general mentorship to allies, how have people around you helped to advocate for you and sponsor you? How important it is to be an advocate or a sponsor? Yeah, super important because there are different roles that people can play around you. So mentors and coaches are kind of more well known for given guidance and advice for specific things you want to achieve. Sponsorship, I just want to chat a little bit about because it's something I hadn't learned about into the last few years and that's very different to mentoring. And I think there's been a lot of sponsors in my career, my life so far but I actually didn't know they were my sponsors because what they're doing is they're advocating for me, my work and my purposes when I'm not in the room. They may be supporting me, creating opportunities and just doing background work and setting up pathways. So I think that's something to be mindful of is it's not just looking for mentors and coaches but also who can support you when you're not there. Especially if we're not yet in the decision making and leadership circles where some of those conversations are happening because we're still grappling with the power dynamics. Don't be shy to ask for sponsors as well. So I think someone said to me a little while ago and I love this concept is just to consider who your board of directors might be for your life or your career what that might be for that diverse guidance and I do mean diverse because mentors, coaches, sponsors could be people who are very different to you. I learn from our students all the time. I consider them as my mentors, especially in understanding what the concerns and the aspirations are of young people, but also different I think Shannon mentioned this as well of her mentor being from a very different background to her different backgrounds mean different experiences and different trainings. So some of my friends have become my mentors because they are in creative professions and they approach problem solving very differently so don't be shy to ask anybody to be involved in your career pathways conversations even if they're not engineers and if they're not engineers it's actually probably a good thing. I love what you said about it not being engineers and you know like we do that engineer for change we also believe that it's it's important to have that diverse perspective and just kind of like listen and learn from all different industries and backgrounds just to kind of like understand how to collaborate better even so I love what you said about pairing up with non engineers and just open that and mentality. So moving to our next question and actually this is my favorite question in the pattern I'm super excited to ask this. So, and this is something I struggle myself as a man. So, what is one thing we can do regardless of gender to be a good ally for women. Ask it. Do you ever and then to Shannon. I love this question. I'm going to be very mindful not to speak for hours and hours about this question. I might just start with what we just mentioned around sponsorship and advocacy because gender inclusion and equality and equity is not a women's problem it's actually for everybody and everybody has a role to play and can contribute and make a difference. So, you know, do advocate for gender inclusion and equality, wherever you are, regardless of who's in the room. And that means speaking up for people speaking out for people but also recognizing opportunities. So in reflection, I'm really grateful to those who taught me on the shoulder for opportunities because I would often look at things and go yeah, that's not for me. I don't have 50 research papers that I can't do that, but people would go actually have you thought about presenting yourself this way or just forget about that just put your CV in you just never know what might happen. So tapping that person on the shoulder would be possibly a very big move for them. Sharing your networks would be another one. We do know the networks do depend on your access to social equity and that is not access for everybody. So bring someone with you to a networking event because you are then broadening their network with yours. Last point, maybe two last points, calling in and out in non inclusive behaviors, because if we don't speak out with any kind of microaggressions then it kind of propagates some of the behaviors that really need to change. And culture change takes small changes to make big changes. So if we don't start small we will never get to the big and the whole getting it right on wrong. It's okay to make mistakes. It's okay to use language that we didn't know wasn't okay. Someone will tell you we learn we don't do it again. It's okay. Thanks for sharing those four points of items. Those were on point. I love the particular one and just kind of like acknowledging that you might be wrong and how you kind of like you're completely inclusive and even in your language that's something I struggle myself with. So, yeah, just acknowledging that you can always keep going. I think it's fantastic. And Shannon, what are your thoughts? I would definitely agree with a lot of points that Eva brought up. I agree with the networking be open to meet new people, but also reach out to those you haven't connected with in a while. Eva also mentioned making mistakes like we're all human. I make mistakes daily. So I am very grateful for the people in my life who are able to listen and provide support and advice. So I would like to give back to my network and listen. Time is something that I can always try to give to anyone and everyone. And speaking of that, if there's anyone in the webinar who would like to reach out to me, please feel free to connect with me. Maybe through LinkedIn or I'd be more than happy to chat further. But yeah, definitely. Just having that inner circle able to listen, but also providing that as a two way street as well. Thanks for sharing Shannon. I love what you said about listening. I think that's something crucial and that's, I mean, just coming from a designing new perspective like human centered design it's all about listening and understanding what are the needs. So I love what you said about how you can be a good advocate for women just by listening and making sure you're understanding what are the needs and the pain points and how can you address from a listening perspective. So yeah, thanks for sharing that Shannon. And with that I'll close this part of mentorships and other ships and I'll transition it back to Leah to kick us off with the final part of the panel. Thank you for that and to anyone who's asking questions in the Q&A we will get to that in just a moment. First, you want to just finish off with a little bit of talk about about leadership and so certainly being a good ally and a lot of the things about growing reaching out to people sharing your networks are definitely ways to perhaps extend your leadership which can can be helpful in this way even without needing to do it, it'll end up happening. But maybe to close this out Eva. What are some skills or maybe activities that you're currently being very intentional about or developing which are allowing you to be most effective as a leader. I have a very long list. I love learning not to say that you know I'm not good enough but I just love learning. So I'll keep it in short, but listening. What Francis just said, being a really purposeful and respectful listener because as a leader, it's not about you. It's about supporting the people you're working with understanding them and helping them to get to where we all need to be together. I'm definitely always working on and to that point languages, it makes a difference to learn a little bit of the languages of those who are you are working with or you would like to work with because it shows that you care it shows that you are making a genuine efforts to join their space and you respect the cultures that they're living in. And also want to mention that language is a very key part of cultural identity so it's a bit of a just showing that I want to be involved. So I'm currently learning one language and it's very difficult but yeah, I'm getting there. Something else I'm working on is I think we talked about this a little bit is how to be uncomfortable. No, how to be comfortable with being uncomfortable. It's very non confrontational I don't like having different conversations but as a leader, I'm going to have to I have to make difficult decisions and it's my responsibility to communicate that so how do I do that with care respect and empathy, and how do I support the people who are affected so you don't just leave them right how do we make sure that they're okay to the next step. And this is very difficult for me because I want to help everybody, but that is just not possible. I think the final thing is being comfortable with failure and making mistakes to learn. For most of my life I've been a perfectionist, and it's only been the last five years of that that grow because perfectionism doesn't exist. It's a bar that keeps raising and it's tail chasing so yeah learning to love failure for learning. All of those great and very helpful so definitely something to take away I love the languages and showing that respect for different cultures, I definitely agree with it, I tried to try to do that. And when I've had opportunities to travel and I think that's really very important, especially in this space, because it's so important to work with different cultures come up with better solutions we come up with better approaches to things and I think that respect for culture is really important. So with that I would like to thank you both. Thank you all for being here, and for just sharing with this moderated section of the panel. So thank you, zoom applause. And for those who have been just talking and asking questions in the chat, we will kind of get to those now. So thank you for your patience, we didn't miss you. So I think we'll just get started with the top of the list. This is from Caroline we thought. How would you, how would one know if you are contributing to sustainable development through your engineering work. What are the metrics. So I don't know which of you would like to answer this ever you're nodding so I'm tending to say you. Oh, look, I've thrown myself under the bus. I love the question. Let me think about what I want to say. The tricks is a good one, because I struggle with defining success. And I think it's important to identify the impact that you want to make because impact means different things to different people. So for me it's most definitely in gender but for somebody else it could be environmental impact or it could be multi factor. So it really depends. And I think we also need to recognize the impact is very difficult to measure. Unfortunately, outputs and outcomes are very different outputs number of projects number of people involved doesn't necessarily mean the change has been made over time to measure sustainable impact. So it's a very unclear answer but make sure you're clear on what you're looking for and be okay with not knowing exactly what the impact is, especially immediately. I think I'll add to that asking this question of whoever is in leadership at your work is one good way to do it. I think it's a particular aspect of sustainable development that you're interested in say hey do we contribute to, you know, reducing climate change, or positively impacting the environment. I think from my experience in the startup sometimes it's easier because you're setting these metrics, especially in the social enterprise so because we were working on creating sanitary products locally. In the beginning was number of days that you know girls were in school. And that's something that we could measure and where we're where we're selling our products and offering them that's something that we can look for for a delta and but as Ava said it's not always that clear but that is definitely something that can be set. And so I think this is a great question to put to whoever you may be working with and asking them those questions and that's probably where you're going to get the best answer for general metrics. The SDGs, they have like the high level goals and they have targets and they have sub targets so they actually get really quite specific. So those can maybe provide some guidance. I want to add on this topic and this is a topic that I'm particularly interested in. And so I love what they have mentioned about the SDGs and actually trying to tell her to the indicators. So sometimes you say SDG7 but actually like understanding what the indicator for that SDG is and which target you're talking is kind of like a nice way to kind of like round it. But just kind of as an entry point to this type of kind of like impact assessment, I think kind of like the starting point is just building or helping or asking for your employer to kind of like provide you the theory of change. What is the theory of change you're working on so that way you can start and try to plan and define some metrics around that particular theory of change you build so you don't have a theory of change, go build a theory of change. I think that's kind of like a step one. Yeah, and before we go to the next question I will say the maybe industry or corporate equivalent to a theory of change is mainly your corporate strategy, or roadmap so the terminology may be different there. But shifting to our next question, how do you look for and find opportunities such as the Ephra C fellowship. To start, there are opportunities on the engineering for change website so to become to be take part in this webinar, you became a member. And so through that we definitely share opportunities. There is an opportunity section within the website. And that so that's where we post our own, like the fellowship but there are also job opportunities there and these can be in different countries. Thank you Aaron for posting that. So you can look for something in a place where you want to work or where you're currently located. I think the other big one is definitely the networking piece. I mentioned that I, my first internship happened to be with an engineering society I think basically every job I've had from that has been a bit of a ripple effect from that first opportunity. It was really quite, quite random, and just me walking in and happened to get lucky. So, I will, if anybody else has anything else to add to that question finding opportunities. Yeah, I would love to add. I would say exposure. And so for me personally how did I come across you for see, I kept myself immersed in the academic environment. So first, I actually worked for years at a startup company, and I decided to go back to academia to do my master's degree. And being immersed in the academic environment, I've become a sponge for knowledge, but also a sponge for opportunities there are so many opportunities that are just thrown at students. It's impossible to it. It's, it's a wonderful feeling to be immersed in so much opportunities. E4C is something that was advertised at my university. And I got so excited because it directly related with my interest. And I didn't actually know that my passion was sustainable development. So if we see help define my interest in that way. But for me personally it's just being immersed in the academic environment. That's how I've learned of so many opportunities like if we see. Yeah, if I can add just something and exposure and because I love what Shana said about exposure and just just getting yourself in the radar of these people. Another nice way to do it is a little bit kind of like actionable is fine for fine challenges, find you know this kind of like sign challenges and any type of university challenge because those are often companies or industry. So that's kind of like a nice way for you to get in the radar of these companies and kind of like something I've learned and kind of be the hard way is that you need to be leaving yourself first. And kind of like challenges is a nice way for you to show what you can do with your own motivation and that's something that will get you in the radar of the right people so that's a nice opportunity to keep going I guess. Back to you, yeah. Yeah, thank you for that. That addition I think that's helpful. So the next question says many of the entry level opportunities within sustainable development seem to be unpaid and very low. How do I get experience and navigate these when working unpaid is not an option. And it feels like only people from wealthy backgrounds can enter the profession. Yes, I've seen this and and I understand. And that is true for quite a few of them. One that I can say based on my background I actually worked maybe not so much in what would be clearly defined as sustainable development I did work in the medical professional. So arguably still working toward the good health and well being, but for more of a mainstream and large companies. So if those opportunities are available to you, there's still a way for you to to learn and to gain skills, and, and to get that first step of in a way that meets you where you are and meets your your economic needs which is important and you know your financial and mental and personal sustainability is step one for you to be able to contribute to sustainable development within the world. So if that's an option, you can try that there are some opportunities and these are also tend to be the more competitive ones where if it is unpaid. They may it may be a kind of position where they they cover it so one of my experiences was with engineering world health. And so that is now available where you can be where you can, excuse me apply for a scholarship. And so if you're interested in biomedical engineering and electronics, they can support you to maybe travel somewhere and get experience working and so it's not paid, but they also cover your expenses. So you've got it kind of a net zero, which may not be ideal, but it's certainly better than having to go into your pocket when you don't have that ability, or that that opening. There are a few of those around it's going to take. Again, just kind of looking for for what's out there on the internet. Again, you can check the engineer for change website. But those those opportunities exist. I don't know if anyone else knows of things about that. Yeah, happy to add some thoughts to this as well because I do understand where the questions coming from is perhaps it's, we don't always get to where we want to be immediately so what's the next good fit. So is there an organization or an industry where it's not necessarily indirectly sustainable development engineering, but they're not being unsustainable. And in that way you are perhaps looking after your economic needs as Leah mentioned but also building up skills and contributing in a different way to sustainable engineering and then you can make the next step so it's maybe a little bit of planning to how to get to where you want to be. I like that and yet it planning and kind of taking the non conventional route is definitely a thing to do when you have to move around. So the next question says, you've discussed networking and the importance of expanding your network, do you have any advice around how to get started networking, networking virtually or internationally when there aren't many opportunities locally and I can't answer that at all. So another very relevant question. I will pause and see if someone else wants to answer first because I can also add. Happy to just maybe unpack what we mean by networking, because for me networking is making connections and it doesn't mean I have to go into a room either virtually or in person with 50 other people. So what matters is genuine connection and the genuine is really important so could be having a look for who is doing the work you would like to be doing or in the sector and just shooting them a message could be a LinkedIn message. I'm not very social media so help help me out but yeah emailing them or whatever it might be that for me already is networking. I have been looking into how we might collaborate with international gender equity organization so I've just been randomly emailing different organizations to see who's ready for a conversation. And to me that is networking because it's a bit of a branch hey I'm interested in doing this or I have a passions area. Would you like to chat about whatever it might be. I've had so not a personal experience but with that of my husband so for him a lot of networking because he was also in a very small town and works in engineering and a lot of manufacturing welding so a lot of his network came from just really having more of an entrepreneurial spirit. So being willing to just say hey does anybody need something done so can you share it and kind of let the people around you know what your skills are because they may have a need that you may not be aware of. And as those people start to know they may be able to share what those skills are and then word of mouth start to create opportunities and you can maybe find out about more of them that way. The other way to do it is to seek out maybe people who can travel and so if you're living living in a place I'm thinking of you know where where I live in in Rwanda for years. It was smaller so if you reach out to people who do tend to move in and out so these are often the people who have shops and who have larger shops and so they're they're bringing things back and forth. They might they're going to know where things are as they're moving around and as they're they're bringing in their goods for their store so reaching out to people who may know about places and opportunities and places that you can't go to. And really just getting to know them I think that the genuine connection that even mentioned is really important, because you may end up creating a bond with these people and may find you know, more interesting or different ways to travel. If those people are available so I would say maybe being entrepreneurial. Just reducing the level of what it means to network and really just talking to people and letting them know what you're interested in. And being open to talking to new people. I want to add on that particular one if so just from a strictly early career perspective, I remember when I was a student and somebody told me you need to network. I was like what networking means like how how I how I should like everybody's like you should network is like I'm sure like if I understand the completely concept of networking and for me networking is about you know finding a way to collaborate instead of just kind of like meeting and finding that kind of like relationship with a person and when you're a student when you're early career is a little bit hard because you're still kind of like acquire knowledge instead of kind of like being able to contribute something to that people so I think the first part of that conversation when you're strictly early career show interest as if I was mentioning just show interest a real interesting you know I love what you're doing I love your research I love. So please you can you please tell me more and then when you can always volunteer your time and say hey I want to learn more about what you're doing and it's kind of like coming again to find the right mentor. And maybe when you're still doing that you might find the right advocate for you and then we'll start sharing the networks with you but that's kind of like general advice for early career or even the students, if we have some in the audience I think that's what work for me. Thanks for that and then the last question is around how to apply for the fellowship this year so I will drop the link for that in the chat, as well as a link around an opportunity that I mentioned that I mentioned around engineering world health as an, not necessarily paid, but you don't have to pay opportunity so first, this is for the fellowship, and then this is for engineering world health. So with that, that is all the questions we have. And they foresee how to apply I know you're asking for a bit of guidelines so please do refer to our social media and we're trying to be a little more communicative in our social media so you'll find a quick checklist of what you need to apply. Also in the web page or newsletter so we'll be watching a lot of information through those channels, but basically we have a quick application form it takes about 345 minutes to fill in. And please feel free to kind of explore our impact project so if you go to the pages that have been shared you'll see all of the impact projects that we have for this year, and some more coming so feel free to explore them and just kind of like fill that application form and you'll be ready to go. All right. So a final thank you to Eva and Shannon for being here. Thank you to our audience for for the questions they're definitely good and deep questions and I think they really added something to the session and it's nice to have that engagement. So we really appreciate you all for being here. We hope you got something out of it. You have some nugget that you can take away for for your career. But I will just leave it to Eva and Shannon. Thank you if I don't know if you have any last words before we close out for the day. Maybe just thank you to if you see for organizing this panel discussion and to the audience for joining we've had some fabulous questions, a few that have really made me think but also extended the discussion from the panel. And let's start the networking today. LinkedIn I love that Shannon mentioned that please connect with us that that is step one is just reaching the branch out. Thanks everyone. Yeah, thanks everyone for coming and it was such a pleasure to be here as a panelist and yeah feel free to reach out and connect. Stay curious. Be self reflective. And yeah, good things will always come your way. All right, well thank you all and we look forward to seeing you as part of the engineering for change community, you know, commenting on articles on the website, applying for opportunities that that interest you, and maybe at the next webinar and certainly taking partner social media so. Thanks again for your time we appreciate appreciate that and your engagement so thanks and we wish you a good day, good morning, good evening, whatever may apply to you.