 You are listening to Mind Pump the World's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast now in this episode We talk about how to build a dad bod. You know a lot of surveys have been done Recently where women are asked what kind of body they find most attractive in men and to many people in the fitness industry's Surprise it was a dad bod. It wasn't the super shredded body It was a a guy that was around I don't know 12 13% body fat with good strength and good muscle And here's the good news That's a lot easier to get to and definitely easier to maintain So in this episode we break down all the things you need to do diet training and lifestyle wise to get that sexy dad bod also this episode is brought to you by our sponsor for Sigmatic now for Sigmatic makes some of the best Mushroom-based supplements around these are adaptogenic mushrooms that help the body deal with stress thus increasing testosterone and many men speeding up recovery improving sleep and improving performance One of my favorite products from for Sigmatic is their ground coffee with chaga and Lion's mane so ground coffee obviously has caffeine that feels good Throw a little chaga and lion's mane in there and you get a calm smooth very very long lasting Energetic buzz great focus great recovery. 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So this program is excellent If you have 20 25 minutes and you want to burn maximum amount of calories If your goal is to burn body fat a lot of body fat in a short period of time then you want to follow maps hit So all three programs combined normally would cost you $291 but right now with this holiday special all three of them For $99.99 that's at one time payment $99.99 you get maps anywhere map suspension And you get the maps hit program lifetime access by the way They also come with a 30-day Moneyback guarantee so you can follow the programs for a month And if you don't love them if you don't absolutely love them return them for a full refund So here's how you can sign up go to maps november Dot-com that's the word maps Maps november Dot-com This morning, you know, we're in the middle of baby mode right babies still, you know, super early young We're feeding them trying to get them to go to eat and You know lack of sleep and the whole thing and you know the last few months It was you know, Jessica was in her third trimester and it's getting cold outside Anyway, I'm making excuses for why my diet I see Where's this going setting the table setting the table? But I mean, I'm still working out. I'm still lifting. I'm doing that. Anyway, um, the past, you know, a couple weeks I get out of the shower and Jessica's like, she's like, man, you look really good She's like, this is the this is the hottest your body's ever looked since I've been with you And I'm like at first I'm like, come on Don't lie. Yeah, I mean I've been ripped before, you know You're just saying that yeah, I'm like you're just trying to make me feel better. She goes. No, I'm serious I like the way you look now Better than you did, uh, we know even when we first met when you were much leaner now granted. I'm not super overweight I think my body fat's probably around 13 Maybe percent maybe 14 percent But she's seen me as lean is like eight or nine percent and she's like You look way better right now and uh, and I'm here's why I'm starting to believe her I'm believing her because when you and these surveys used to irritate me, but they they've done them a million times Well, they'll ask women What they prefer and they'll show pictures of men and they'll show them like shredded a little heavier overweight and consistently Women will point to the The middle picture and they call out the dad bod, right? They say that that looks the best Muscular with a little bit of covering. Yes, and that's what they consistently will say is that that is the most attractive and used to annoy me before when I was You know lean and super whatever, but I mean Lots of them been done. Do you think that's partially too though? Like the stigma that comes with being jacked, right? There's a bit of a stigma that plays a factor Yeah, there's a bit of a stigma that comes with being uh, like super ripped That you're your body obsessed You're neurotic. Yeah, you're a little neurotic. You you spend too much time in the gym You're probably no fun to go out on the weekend with like there's a lot of things that come with Carrying yourself a baggage was it? Yeah. So part of me thinks that There's that's why and then there's the other side too of also, uh, feeling secure about yourself, right? So when you're with a partner who is, uh, you know, way better shaped than you are You're you're probably constantly insecure and feeling bad about yourself. Whereas if you've got Uh, a partner who is a little bit on the softer side. It makes you feel a more secure Maybe with your own body. So there's probably a lot of factors going on. I think so because uh, well first off Let's go with what the science says because oftentimes what we consider attractive It's influenced by media, but there's also this kind of instinctual evolutionary aspect to it, right? So certain things that we think are attractive and the reason why they're we consider them more attractive is because They point to things like better health, uh, better vitality Um improved fertility for example If they did this they've done these studies a couple times there's uh, and they've done them around the world Well, they'll Different cultures find uh different sizes of people ideal in the sense of you know attractiveness So they did one with women right where they said okay people from this region Find women to be around this weight to be ideal people from this region Find women to be this way. So this is there was this pretty wide variance of of body weight And so what they were trying to do is find consistencies and what they found was Among all the cultures there was this hip to waist ratio So regardless of the if the women were 160 pounds or 120 pounds It was this hip to waist ratio that they that they all considered Attractive and so then what they did is they went a little deeper and they found Why this hip to waist ratio and they found that it dramatically increases fertility and successful Childbirth. So there's that instinctual aspect of it. Now when you look at men Here's what the science says and here's my own experience If you get too lean or you get too fat your testosterone goes down This is this is true if you're natural. Yeah, if you're natural and you ask anybody a guy who's ever gotten himself Or died it down or trained at the point where he got down to seven or eight percent body fat Every every I mean that was one of the conversations I had to explain to Katrina when I when we got to that point right because she always thought it was so weird That when I'm all shredded feeling great about myself as far as my physique that the last probably I'd say two to three weeks heading into a show We didn't have sex and I it wasn't because I didn't want to it said I just had no drive Completely lose your drive. I mean you're unhealthy When you get that that lean your your body goes into survival mode. It's not thinking about procreating it's thinking about surviving and so You know, you lose your sex drive. So yeah, that there's that two extremes Like if you're lower than six percent body fat and then when you're higher than 15 percent And really the the real healthy range is what's in the middle of that Yeah, so testosterone tends to be lower immune system tends to drop as well. This was very true for me I have gotten myself really really lean and when I do that I notice that I have to be and this is usually when I get down below 10 percent I have to be careful because I'm more likely to get sick Um, I I notice my heat and cold tolerance goes down My sleep starts to get effective. In fact talk to any anybody who's done this now Of course, there's there's individual variants. Are those extreme people who walk around? And they're eight percent body fat and they feel great, but for most Guys when they train and diet to that point as great as it looks in pictures They'll tell you y'all my sleep is off. Um, you know, I feel like my they are more likely to get ill So the science says that, you know, longevity wise, you're probably better off walking around Somewhere, you know, 13 to 14 percent body fat. So this may be why one of the reasons why Women instinctually will say when they because I'm telling you it's every survey. You look it up yourself Yeah, go on google and you'll see them all Well, yeah, and it's interesting. I think there's obviously there's a lot of those factors Like you mentioned in terms of like them feeling better about themselves I think that it's just it's really rare to see a six pack And I think that that statistic of of millionaires to people with six packs Like was it more millionaires and people with six packs? Your odds of being a millionaire are far higher than your odds of getting six That's how rare it is So I feel like it's a novelty thing like it's nice to look at but I I think that instinctually like like women are maybe more drawn towards somebody that You know is relatable to them. Yeah, that makes it and that and here's the deal What's life like when you are someone who trains and eats in a way to be that shredded? And so like to the point you made adam about, you know They're also probably thinking what kind of a person Yeah, what does this person like to hang out with? Right, you know, I know what it was like when I got when I get that lean It's like my diet 99 percent of time has to be perfect. Oh, yeah Yeah, and the consistency in the gym and I mean, it's it Bodybuilding was one of the most selfish sports I've ever played in my life I mean, there was every other sport that I've been able to do There's still off time right like you could be at the highest level in a, you know basketball football There's times in the day where you're off, you know You have hardcore practice and you got to take care of your sleep And there's all there's a lot of work that goes into being a any sort of a professional athlete But with bodybuilding it it's every minute of every hour of every single day like you're constantly Aware of what what's going in your mouth and we're eating all day long And then you add in the fact that you're training extremely hard and you're trying to progress show over show I've never felt so selfish and I remember the time All the shows that we are going through always reminding Katrina that like, you know, this isn't forever for us This is not a sport that I'm in love with and I want to be doing forever This there's a plan behind all this and then we'll be done with this because I just I think that it's really really tough to do that and have good balance and have a If you're a single guy all by yourself, you know, then whatever and you're into the sport cool But if you're trying to manage a relationship and then a family Uh, it's kind of tough to do well And I think too like we sort of glazed over the definition of it because I think it varies a little bit Like what women consider a dad bond Some people actually think like this fat beer belly is like a dad bar. I'm like, that's not dad bar You're just fat. Yeah, like let's be honest here. Like pull up dug what pull up dad bar Let me see what the what the internet deems a dad bond because I agree, Justin There is like this huge variance of what yeah, because I mean, I mean how I see it is You know, if you actually have muscle in your muscular guy, but but also you're not Within that that lean parameter where you could see the visible abs that that stick out Yeah, I'd say it's probably anywhere between. I don't know 12 to 15 16% body fat You have good muscle. So you're not skinny fat. You're not uh, that's what comes up for jab on generally overweight Yes, that's skewed. Yeah, I agree too. Yeah, because they're showing is that who is it? Look up the surveys for Doug um, the pictures that women will say looks uh, most attractive and then what you'll end up seeing is kind of like a a muscular but You know relatively lean but not shredded physique. In other words, you're still displaying Good health. You're you're just not uh, super shredded. Yeah, you have some muscle definition There's definitely signs you work out. That's that's that's important. That's how I feel too I feel like to me it means like you you you look like you lift like you've got shoulders to you You've got arms you got legs to you so like that, but you carry a higher body fat percentage You probably don't see a defined six pack. Yeah, see there there's one. Okay. Oh, yeah, that's a good example Yeah, so it looks like he's active looks like he's fit. He's not super shredded, but he's not There's a right another simple your chest is sticks out further than your belly does Yeah, that's right. It is important. No, seriously It's like the waist to hip ratio for women. I think for men, it should be, you know, chest to waist Yeah, our shoulders waist. Yeah, shoulders. Yeah, yeah, right I think that's I think that because sometimes you see these dadbots and like Justin was saying They have like this like beer belly that sticks out further than the chest. I'm like that's you're you're not in the category Yeah, that's out of shame. That's out of shame. Yeah, sorry Now one of the the positives right some of the positives of a dadbot besides, you know, what we're saying Which is that it's considered most attractive in the real world Maybe not on instagram pictures, but in the real world. It's considered most attractive But here's what are some of the positives of it? You're you're probably healthiest around that body fat percentage You've got good strength. In fact, you're stronger. I'm stronger at 13 body fat than I am at 7% body fat for sure I have less joint pain. I feel pretty damn better energy And life is better energy higher testosterone levels. I sleep better and You know, I've still got good confidence I feel good and life is more balanced. I think this is a big one Right, so I don't feel like I need to watch every single thing that I put in my mouth I don't need to like obsess about every workout that I do I can be with my kids. I can still do my job I can on the weekend enjoy A beer or hang out with my friends or you know, have a nice dinner with my wife I feel like this is a attainable achievable healthy goal Um, if your goal is always to be shredded all the time I think you're probably not going to be as healthy either mentally or even physically now I think it still takes um effort though, right? It's not and it doesn't happen by itself Right, I want and that's I think I want to caution like there's the message coming right now Right, like I don't want it to be oh, yeah fucking don't don't try and be in great shape Like take it easy because it's gonna take it down to not just because we're a bunch of dads that try to justify where the fuck I don't want to come off like that at all reflection of where we're at. Yeah, because it really it still takes effort Like, uh, you know, I I have to real quick I go from dad bod to out of shape if I'm not consistent in the gym I need to be lifting at least two to three days a week, right? So two to three days a week I need to be lifting I need to be Making good choices 80 plus percent of the time still so Conscious of what I'm consuming which also by the way goes hand in hand with the training. So My diet technically has to get a little bit tighter When I let off the training when I'm training six seven days a week I have a lot more Flexibility in what I consume when I let myself go. Oh, you know what? I only need to get in the gym two three times a week So I'm taking more time with max or Katrina and I are traveling doing things Okay, then I actually have to be very conscious of okay. I am not training that much I can't get away with very much of the diet. So I have to kind of tighten the diet up, but I still don't have to track. I'm not weighing. I'm not measuring any of my food I'm just conscious of the choices that I'm making. It's more like, okay I can have a meal or two here and there that is, you know, I'm totally eating it Just because I want to enjoy it has nothing to do with it's probably best for my body But the remainder of the time, you know, when I have like a craving or want something I don't just say okay. I can have that because I'm okay with a dad bought. I go I still need to keep my diet in check. It's just not as strict We are out on a weekend where we're all hanging together have some drinks I'm okay with that because that's not going to hurt me that much. I think that's part of it too and I also like to think that Another big component of it's just like seeking foods and things that make you feel healthy and are Contributing towards your internal health and it's not necessarily this like Really like a rigid amount of calories that I have to stay in this certain amount. It's more just like I'm seeking healthier foods and I'm trying to promote You know good gut health and things like for my body for the long term and so more sustainable You know approach towards nutrition and training. Yeah now in my experience too I noticed that I have to make a mental switch when I'm trying to get shredded versus when I'm just maintaining relatively good health in my workouts So when I'm trying to get shredded I would have to make this mental switch where my focus is the mirror and here's why because I would get weaker I would get weaker in my lifts as I'm working out my the weight that I'm lifting goes down I don't have the same. I don't get the same pumps I'm not able to deadlift or squat or overhead press as much weight And so rather than you know getting depressed in my workouts because of that I start to wear my tank tops and look in the mirror and say, okay. I'm getting leaner. I'm getting more shredded That's what I'm going to focus on when I'm in the 12 13% body fat range It's performance. How good do I feel? Yeah, how strong am I? How good is my form? Now one of those is healthier than the other That it really is if if you have to focus on it if you had to pick one And I'm just saying that you can never focus on the mirror and do that kind of stuff And by the way, I want to make sure that I emphasize that that doesn't this this episode doesn't mean you can never try To go get shredded. That's not the point here No, and I also think it's actually healthy to do that. I actually think that it's helpful to know that You're right. I absolutely take yes. I'll stand by that all day But if you had to pick one or if I had to pick one for my clients If I had to absolutely someone held a gun to my head and said pick one way for your clients to focus on their workouts The mirror or their performance and how they feel performance and how they feel hands down hands. It's much healthier It's better for longevity. You'll enjoy your workouts much more And so that's a that's a totally different switch on my workout. So my workouts actually become healthier For me in the way I train When I allow myself to be a little bit looser with my diet and I'm sitting around like I said Now, okay, so I have a question for you guys and so when you guys I I know what it is for me, right? So I'm curious to hear if you guys have something somewhere So when I make this switch of I'm not paying attention to how I look and I just want to maintain and be healthy and be strong I have numbers like my bench my squat my dead of kind of where I need to be I know that obviously when I back off from training five six days a week and in dieting hardcore and I'm Strict like I was for competing mode. I'm nowhere near as strong as I I am right now So I know you're making the case that you're stronger with a little bit higher body fat I know that I I'm going to lose that because the volume of training I'm just my volume of training is dramatically decreased since I've been a father But I still have numbers that I like I'm like, okay as long as I'm moving this weight for squatting I'm moving this way for deadlifting benchpress. I see so you have like a baseline. Yes I have that same that that same mentality and I there's definitely certain lifts Like I want to make sure I keep the amount of weight that I was doing before As the standard and also to like the athleticism and overall movement for me is a big is a big deal You know like being pain-free, but also having abilities So if I could just like shoot hoops with my kids or like a pickup game or you know throw the ball out at the field You know, I have those abilities and I'm maintaining that. Yeah, I'd say for me I if I if I can deadlift and this is a strong exercise for me Okay, but if I can still pull 500 pounds off the floor, I'm I'm happy even 450 would make me happy If I could squat three plates and feel like I'm pretty good with it I feel good if I can overhead press 135 for you know sets of eight to ten reps. I feel pretty good I mean if I start to go way below those then I'm like, okay, I need to pick up my volume I know it's exactly so very similar right for me It's like I go I'm not maxing out when I'm the dad bod guy So I'm like what's what I'm working out with so if I'm if I'm benching and working out with 225 comfortably That's good for me. If I'm overhead pressing 135 and working out with that, that's good for me If I'm able to deadlift 400 pounds and work out with that, that's good for me If I'm able to squat 300 plus pounds, that's good for me So those are like my baseline and there's obviously and then this last year There's been times where I've dipped below that and all those and that's always my like indicator of like, okay I'm falling off so that is kind of my My homeostasis or home base whatever you want to call it for or baseline for okay I need to kind of pick up my king versus going looking at my mirror and going like oh man I'm a little fat or a little soft right now or I'm probably two more percent body fat I'm not paying attention to that at all. I'm paying attention to my performance and then also what Justin said Maybe not as much as the uh, you know playing sports Although that's probably the desired outcome from it is I because I put so much energy and effort Into my my ankle and my hip mobility and my shoulder mobility It's just being able to do those things right like I I know right away when I get down into a 90 90 And I start to cramp up that I've neglected that it's like okay I'm not doing this enough that that's difficult again for me So those are all kind of the things that when I'm you know managing, you know the quote unquote dad bod I'm going okay. I need to be able to do these things for performance reasons and for strength reasons I know that I'm probably pretty healthy and I feel better Which is weird and it's still weird for me to to accept that I feel better with where I'm at right now than I did before max, you know When I was training and Lou and I was competing Training that way like you said Sal. I was getting sick a lot more often Um, I know that I was no fun to be around I know that I'm in the gym six seven days a week at least an hour to two hours every day It's just a lot of commitment and a lot of extra stress in my life to do that And it's just not a high priority Yeah, and now make no mistake a fit and healthy dad bod means you look better than 90% of the people around so Again, I want to make that point. It's not uh, you know, what you think the the tv dad bod would be or whatever Is there a mom bod? Yeah thing fit and healthy, right? I think it would be the same thing That's what I'm thinking. It's like gotta be same fit and healthy but not shredded Yeah, essentially what it is You know if you put on a t-shirt people will look at you and say oh you work out You look like you're pretty fit like that's what a dad bod means It's not veins your abs. It's not super shredded sucked up, uh, you know looking in the face or whatever Well, the the thing I like about this message is that I think that Part of what discourage at least when I think back to all the clients I trained One of the things that was most discouraging and I remember having a lot of these conversations is We look at magazines and today we look at instagram, right? We look at these models and these people and their their peak shape and many of them driven by their insecurities and their own Fuckin issues and so having a conversation like this I think is so important because that's where most of my clients truly wanted to be yes They didn't want to be you know 4% body fat or like that But they're being told that all the time because that's what they're looking at an advertisement or that was what they're looking at Social media They just wanted to be healthy and fit and when you're if you're driving towards this magazine look or this instagram model Look at that that's extremely discouraging because the reality of it is not only is it not healthy to be that way But even if you get to that point. It's very short-lived. It's short. It's phony a lot of what you see anyways There's lots of photoshop doctored, you know filtered images out there that look really impressive and amazing But again like to get to that pinnacle peak Sort of look it really is a short window to sustain Yeah, it is okay So let's talk about how to get a dad bod like what does the training look like what does your diet look like? What does it take to to get a a healthy and what what surveys say women prefer? In terms of sexiness and attractiveness type of dad bod I think number one the most important thing is to build muscle, okay If you're 12 or 13 body fat and you sit at a desk all day long and you never lift weights You don't have the dad bod that we're talking about you have your skinny fat. In fact, um recently We had max lugavier on the show and he talked about People who were normal weight but metabolically obese. That's the I think that the the scientific term for Skinny fat your health probably isn't very good even though you're not Overweight just because you're the normal body weight doesn't mean you're healthy Building muscle is number one with this look and it's also number one in terms of the health Benefits that you'll accomplish at that 12 13 maybe 14% body fat. So number one Lift weights now. Here's the wonderful thing about Building a sufficient amount of muscle to to give you that look and to be strong You don't need to train all the time right in fact for most men This is no joke for most men anywhere between two to four days a week full body We'll give you everything you ever want in terms of how you look most men three days a week Most guys if you're in the gym, you're training full body Three days a week you're gonna get the the kind of results that we're talking about in fact That's how I currently mostly train in fact whether I'm shredded or not. That's usually how I train That's how I get the beauty of that too Is it gives you when you when you focus on the building the strength and putting good muscle on is it gives you a Lot more latitude in the other things too so if you're somebody who likes to Have a glass of scotch every once in a while like Justin or like have some dessert like ice cream Like me every once in a while Because you train that way and you've built enough muscle on your body It gives you a lot more flexibility in the way you eat versus just somebody who's like, okay I'm not going to work out and I'm going to try to eat good But then have the occasional hiccup really tough to maintain a physique that way that's you know healthy and yeah And you look like you're actually strong, right? You look like you can actually move some weight So exercises to focus on the the heavy compound lifts your your your back squats and your dead lifts and your overhead press By the way, these are important if you want to get shredded too But they're especially important if you're training three days a week and you're only training three days a week or even two days a week Get good at those lifts. Well, I think that's why we highlight You know the the biggest bang for your buck type lifts, you know the the biggest movers because You know like you really don't have to stay in the gym forever You don't have to do all the things all week long to to pull this off It's it's it's really about like what are the most effective exercises and how do I put that together three days a week Is is plenty to get a lot accomplished it is and you want to do the whole body three days a week Maps anabolic is a program by the way that we that's kind of Modeled after this you could also do trigger sessions on the off days if you want to go crazy And add more volume But the core foundational aspect of maps anabolic which is our most by by far most popular program Is this it's this three day a week full body type routine. Well, and this goes back to I mean how this all started man, you know, so over six seven years ago when you first sent me a message on facebook and showed me maps anabolic One of the things that I loved about it so much was I realized that like all the magazines and all the workout plans that I had Messed with and I'd seen All of those were geared around intensity and motivation and you know, these, you know So what's the thing going 75 hard and like everything is this this this hype and around intensity and pushing and no days off And and the messaging when I looked at it I was like man This is so the opposite of the conversations that I was constantly having with my clients my clients My clients want to go 75 hard none of my clients want to train seven days a week None of them want to go beast mode. None of them want to train their legs so hard They can't walk the next day like that's the 1% that's not that's not everybody else Everybody else wants to know hey adam how how little can I spend in the gym and have a good physique? Be healthy be strong be fit and what that looks like is two Maybe three days a week and in order to do it and be very efficient and successful with it It's a full-body routine and and and mostly focused around the major compound lifts And that was what when you send over anabolic. I'm like, oh my god This is it's so it the part about it with the hardest things to to market and sell it Is it it's simplicity Is that we're telling you that we're telling you that hey It's only a couple days a week that you need to lift this way. These are the main lifts You're probably familiar with all of them But this is the way you piece them together and how you train consistently if you do this You're gonna build a great physique. You're gonna feel great You're gonna be strong and you're only gonna be in the gym two or three hours a week. That's it Yeah, yeah, you know what this makes me. I'm thinking right now about the years I spent doing judo and jujitsu and wrestling And the guys that you would go against that would just I mean, of course, they're very skill based Sports, but the dude the guys that you would go against that would be just That would feel like oxes. None of them were were super shredded I mean, there were definitely shredded people who competed But they were shredded because they wanted to stay within a certain weight class But the guys that didn't really care about that and he'd roll with them in the gym They were you know, they were relatively lean, but they were strong as hell Like they grab you and you'd feel it and it's just they kind of Emphasize that you know that that fitness that you get from being an optimal health An optimal health for the most part for for most men is around, you know Around that range and this is the kind of workout that'll accomplish that look And that health and two to three days a week a full body is very maintainable for most men Right if you if you have a family if you're legitimately a dad, right? You got kids You have a job. You're supporting them That's a doable long-term routine Five six days a week That can be tough that can be tough to stay consistent at for very very long for most people unless you're a fanatic It's very difficult to do well a point I want to make two about maps in a box and we're talking about it right now too is What I love about it is it it offers this This for me, but then it also offers if I want to get shredded my training doesn't have to change It's just this is where the diet part comes. Correct Right. So if I want this this quote-unquote dad bod where I'm kind of hovering around this 12 to 15 comfortable range where I'm strong I'm fit I know that what all I need to do is train like exactly like anabolic Two to three times a week and I have a lot of flexibility on my diet It means I don't have to say no to a drink on Friday night date night with My wife, it means that every once in a while I can eat out and not worry about the calories that I'm intakeing But most of time I'm trying to make good choices a lot of flexibility there But if I decide hey in two or three weeks, I'm doing something where my shirt's going to be off or summer's around the corner I can still follow that routine and just tighten the diet up getting rid of the flexibility Yeah, that's a little more rigid. That's it now as far as diet is concerned This is what it looks like 80 percent of time. You're eating really really really good 80 percent of time you're eating foods that you're you have you know a good macro nutrient profile calories are appropriate It's healthy. It's you know quote-unquote clean 20 percent of time. You're not binging. You're not eating like an asshole But you're enjoying yourself. You're you're going out to dinner You're having the occasional burger or the occasional, you know, a few slices of pizza or the beer with your friends And for me personally and I love fitness. I love nutrition. I love all that stuff This allows me to enjoy those times with my family with my extended family We go to my mom's house for sunday dinner. I'm not sitting down saying, okay. I can't eat that mom. Sorry. You can't eat that I'm gonna I'm oh, I'll have a little bit of everything. I'll enjoy myself So it's really 80 percent of time you're eating pretty well 20 percent of time You're not eating totally bad But you're eating because you're enjoying the people around you and you're enjoying food for its its taste and its enjoyment and this is a diet that strategy that is Totally maintained. I would say this on all the clients that I trained This is a maintainable diet the the the shredded diet, which literally looks like 95 to 99 percent Perfect all the time. That's what it is if for me to get seven percent body fat eight percent I'm eating 99 percent 95 99 percent of the time perfect That is not maintainable for most people it was really funny the transition that I went through with my family after competing because It was almost it was about three and a half almost four years of like really hardcore consistency So for almost four years My family got used to seeing me carry Tupperware turning down going out somewhere like You know, I just brought my own food So I show up or you know, everyone some of my family would ask and be like, what can I make you? So it's you know that you can eat it you can have it and so It took almost about a I'd say two years after that where I finally got to a place where people understood that like That's not my like just because I'm a fitness person. That doesn't mean like that's how I eat all the time I was I was in competition mode Like I was trying to accomplish something really really hard to do With eating out or eating whatever you guys are serving So that was the hardest thing was to get through that Transition and I still would get family members that would be like, oh, are you are you not into fitness anymore? Are you like yeah, it's like no, yeah No, I can I can eat this way and still be healthy and fit I just can't this is what I can't do. I'm also trying to be three percent body fat and get on stage So yeah, I probably just recently got over that maybe I don't know six months to a year ago Did finally like it the compute for the family is that it's I'm normal. I promise Yeah, and also, you know, when you have kids too, I think this is a way better example than the perfect 99 of the time diet because it mimics more of what real life is supposed to be like And uh, to be honest with you, I don't think it's a good way This is something I hated doing Where my kids and my family would eat a particular way and then my meal would be very very different And they're seeing dad do this thing where he's eating but why am I eating this way and you're eating that way? And I will explain to them, you know, and they were real young So I would explain kind of to the point where they would understand But I wouldn't want to live that way. I wouldn't want to live like that all the time I don't think that necessarily is a great Message and children definitely learn more from watching them. Yeah, and you got to think to them going over to their friends houses Like, you know other places where you know, there has to be like that level of Relatability there like so it's not so far out of the norm of you know, what they require versus You know their friends and this so it just it just helps like You know with the friendships and overall feel of like hanging out like you're you're a lot more likely to be asked over to And I think I think it's important why we're talking about diet to that I don't I don't want anyone to think who the people that are weighing and measuring or dial with their food Like this isn't I'm definitely not shaming you I mean, I sure and I and I see tremendous value in doing that I still think that that's an important process of learning what you should be eating for your body So this doesn't mean like oh if you're somebody who's thinking about getting in shape And then you hear mind pump guys say like oh just eat this way or just do this that I still don't think that Everybody at some point in their life should Track measure way really learn about you know macros and calories and what their body needs and what a normal Month or weeks look like of training and totally well I see value in that even if I do another sports example here We have seasons right and so the thing is like you got goals And if you have a goal that's very intense and specific that's awesome. That's amazing But then you know, what are you going to do for all the rest of the time? And I think that you know people don't really think about that as much as when they're in it Like this is going to be how I'm always going to be and so rigid You got to think longer than that and that's important I would say the one macronutrient that I still pay attention to when I'm eating like the protein Yeah, I'm just I'm trying to get and make sure I eat adequate protein which for me For muscle building and strength purposes is anywhere between 150 to you know to 200 grams of protein a day So I'll the goal essentially is eat healthy 80 percent of the time, but also hit my protein targets So make sure I get those that many grand I love I love that piece of advice and hack because We over all the years of training clients one of the things that protein is the most neglected if you're If you separate the bodybuilder community and all the And you just talk about the normal people that are trying to get in shape Protein is is the most neglected macronutrient And it's probably one of the most important and crucial when it comes to building a physique and getting stronger building muscle, right? So I agree with you Sal and what's beautiful about that is it just focusing on that As as a side effect you end up eliminating a lot of things if I'm if I'm just looking at protein and going like Okay, this is how many grams of protein I need and I'm focused on that versus saying I can't have this I can't have that but I'm focused on what I need to get It naturally eliminates a lot of the processed foods a lot of the carbohydrates that I don't need Sugars things like that because I'm so focused on making sure I hit that number And then when ends up happening because protein is so satiating after I get my targets I'm not I don't feel like I've got these cravings exactly So if it's three meals in a day for me, then it's I'm aiming for about 50 grams of protein Per meal and I'll eat that first because that's and that's a that's a big chunk of protein That is and you eat a big piece of steak or some chicken, you know, you're you're going to feel relatively satiated Then you're going to go on and eat maybe your your your healthy carbohydrates your vegetables You're probably not going to want to you know, eat a whole bag of chips or cookies or dessert afterwards So it's a really really good target now the other 20% of the time That's when I'm oh, we're going to have you know, uh, you know burgers and fries or okay I'm eating at my mom's house. She's gonna make that you know her homemade pasta or whatever Then it becomes less of an important thing But 80% of the time that's what's happening and combine that with a good workout You're going to look muscular and relatively lean. You're going to have a nice dad bod fit type of physique Now here's another component that I think is real important. This is a big part of it And I think this is the this is a very important part of it is don't obsess This is kind of the the big part of of this and I'm now I'm speaking to the fitness fanatics So those of us who have a tendency to obsess over diet and exercise Don't do it learn to enjoy the other things in life The important things in life now I don't mean enjoy life in the sense that you're you're going to be uh, you know Hedonistic with your food sometimes people think that's what that's what it means. Oh enjoy life That means I'm going to go binge. That's not enjoying life. I mean enjoy the real things in life Your family your friends Connecting with the people around you where it's not super important that you eat absolutely perfect It's not super important that you work out every single day. It's literally a more relaxed balanced mental state way. I think even to like we're we're so stressed out In general like just from work and everything else to and family and relationships and You need to you need to really focus on enjoying training enjoying What you're eating and and those things that that benefits you and I feel like It can teeter into a really unenjoyable experience where you're hammering and punishing yourself all the time to to to make those You know those those like really rigid restrictions in those windows of of calories and You know being able to hit all your targets perfectly that you miss sight of of what you're really You know needing to enjoy well This is also why I love the the two to three day week full body type of routine is You know if you're trolley training two to three days in a week I mean that's that you you still got four days four to five other days of the week where you don't have to train So maybe I set it up where I say Monday Wednesday Friday are the days I prefer to train But let's say Friday comes along and Katrina texts me in the middle of the day and or early in the day and says Hey, I want you know as soon as you get off of work Can we shoot out and take max to the beach and I'm like absolutely even though it's Friday? I'm supposed to get my workout after work is over. That's okay I'll push it to saturday where I'll push it to sunday and I still stay on track with my goals and my routine Because I've allowed myself that flexibility like that. That's why versus doing like a body part split Where I need to be in the in the gym Five days a week missing a day because I want to go do something with my son and Katrina All of a sudden throws off that whole routine and now either what I missed a muscle group for that week and now I'm I'm playing catch-up the entire time or I'm stressing over. Oh god. I didn't do this and that's my weak muscle group It's like doing a full body Two to three day type of routine gives me so much latitude or being able to flexibility to move A day over if I if I want to do something that all of a sudden takes a priority like my family Yeah, and you said something to Justin you said enjoy your workouts I enjoy my workouts more in this state Than I do in the more obsessive, you know get shredded state. I talked about earlier how I feel stronger I feel more mobile I'm not worried as much about how I look so I literally have my t-shirt or my sweater on And I'm in the gym and I'm just lifting heavy listening to good music Having a great time having a lot of fun and feeling good It's a definitely a different feeling in the workout and it is almost therapeutic It is and it's less obsessive in the sense that I'm not focusing on the parts of my body that I need to change The way I look I may say, you know, I know I need to hit this part of my shoulder or whatever I don't care. I want to do these this overhead carries because that's more fun Or I want to do this farmer walk because that's a little bit more fun And so the workouts take on a different Feeling and it's it's along those lines of not obsessing as I'm in the gym and I'm just enjoying what I'm doing Well, and then that's the lifting part. It also looks different like when you talk about uh cardio and movement Um, you know when I'm focused on competing, you know You have scheduled cardio sessions and I'm getting up first thing in the morning and doing all this stuff When I'm trying to stay in shape and just maintain that kind of 12 to 15 range It just means being active and making that a part of my lifestyle I mean, this is where I love the things and again This goes back to the average person that I would I would train Is starting to create good habits of hey after dinner we go for a walk for 20 30 minutes Maybe on saturdays, we'd love especially when it's good weather outside We'd like to go out and just go do for a hike for two hours, you know, it's easy It's not like it's strenuous and hard or we got to get in the gym to do it It's just making choices to be active and creating habits around things that you already currently do and creating movement No, the best form of x of cardio that we can label it cardio but the best form Of cardiovascular or activity, you know calorie burning type activity. It's not resistance training Our forms of walking so walking hiking are the best. There's a few different reasons why number one Doesn't right require equipment. It doesn't require tons of mental like setup. Like I'm going to go push myself real hard But also most people can walk Okay, like most people need to learn how to run properly most people need to learn how to do other forms of cardio properly Walking means you just get up and do what we still do It's still not like the world of walley the cartoon when everybody's in there Little floating chairs or whatever. Yeah, people people still can walk Most people can't run but people still can walk or hike Those are my favorite forms of activity and then here's a big one since we're talking about dad bod You know means you could probably have kids You don't have to but you probably have kids if you're if you're literally the dad, right Play you go out and play. What a great way to get some activity take the kids outside and play hide and go seek or tag Or throw a frisbee or some kind of game that requires lots of movement It's one of the greatest ways to do your cardio And here's the best part forget the cardio spend time with your kids and you have a lot of fun So this is like definitely near and dear to me, right? So I remember when we were uh, so when we were at We're sal's at right now, right like the first weeks and You know the first few months of having a baby everybody was was telling me Oh, you know soak it all up and it's so amazing because he sleeps on your chest Soon sooner or later He'll be crawling and then he'll be walking and running all over the place and then you guys are going to be Run around and people kept telling me that like it's going to be it was going to be so awful And I remember Katrina and I look at each other going like I don't know man this This where we're at right now this watching netflix all day long and having the baby sleep on us and you feeding Every every two hours like crazy like we are getting cabin fever And you know being health and fitness people and people that like to be outside and exercise I was so excited for when he when he got to the place where he was running around And now it's become a new habit in my life. So what my routine looks like is When I come home from work The first thing I do I walk straight in the bathroom. I wash my hands. They go right up to my son I see my son and he's so excited to see me I grab him Katrina and I get ready and then we head right over to the park that's around the corner from us And then we spend like two hours and what I'm chasing him around and playing with him and throwing the ball to him I'm getting down in my squat and scroll position messing around in 90 90 and doing like and I it's not A workout for me It's just activity Yes And what and it doubles as I like to think of being a good father as being present with my son and being active and being a part of his life And so because of that it's like such a huge win for me I'm not stressed at it. Am I building a bunch of muscle? Am I becoming the most mobile guy ever like no None of that stuff. It's like I'm addressing some of those things But the most important thing is that I'm spending time with him totally and here's another thing is Go do shit go fix stuff around the house go mow your lawn like I remember this hit me Like a kick in the face like years ago, right? I remember I had to go do my yard work Which was like mow the front lawn mow the back lawn clean at the leaves trim the whatever and I thought to myself Like damn it I'm not going to have time to do cardio and I remembered I said that out loud I'm like wait a minute Oh this dawned on me too. I've been preaching this like this is the latest thing over the last year or two where I'm just like Dude all that energy you're putting on the treadmill could be used around your yard Could be used around organizing things in your house like like doing manual things that are productive and moving Your family yourself everything moving forward where you know otherwise It's just like burned energy out into the abyss. Yeah, and you actually burn more calories So I know years ago when the these those devices that can measure Actual calories burned it was the first one was called the body bug And then remember my clients would wear them and I would track their activity And it was so wild to me to see that they would burn more calories Crushed the calories. Yeah, they would burn more calories on a Saturday when they didn't have any workout scheduled They had no cardio scheduled and I'd see their charts and I'd be like man you burned 30% more calories washing dishes. Yeah, what were you doing? Oh, I washed my cars and then we went to the mall and walk around and you know Versus Thursday when they did 30 minutes of cardio and then they trained with me And then it dawned on me like you burn more calories and you got a bunch of stuff done You know, like that's the kind of cardio that I think you should seek out Especially if you literally are a dad But even if you're not go do some fun stuff like you don't need to schedule Activity just go outside go hiking go climbing go fix something go clean something and there you go There's your activity. Go outside do your yard work wash your cars. There's three hours of cardio right there It enhances your lifestyle everything benefits And if you're married your wife will probably want to have sex with you because you did all the stuff that you're supposed to do It's the secret hack Instead of doing a bunch of cardio look mind pump is recorded on video as well as audio So come check us out on youtube mind pump podcast You can also find all of us on instagram Make sure you search for us you can find justin at mind pump Justin You can find me at mind pump sal adam at mind pump adam and dug the producer at mind pump dog dog the jug Katrina goes sprinting if we have those like all those dog doors Like hurdle hurdle over to it rips it out of her head. She's like, oh, that's what that's not working And she goes she she hits it and like literally like four windows of like porno Yeah, this is like day two of then this nanny. That's not how you lost the first nanny