 Ladies and gentlemen, you are very welcome to this afternoon's joint address hosted by the IIEA. My name is Immanuel Schoen-Quinlevin from University College Cork. UCC, as it happens, is part of UNIQ, one of the European-wide alliances of universities called for by President Macron during his last urban speech in 2017. We're privileged to be joined today by both the French Minister for Europe and Foreign Affairs, Jean-Yves Le Drian, and the French Minister of State for European Affairs, Clément Beaune, who have generously agreed to take time out of their scheduled visit to Ireland to speak to us. They're actually addressing us from the French Embassy in Dublin. Our thanks also go to the Ambassador Vincent Guerrand and the French Embassy for their support in this event. As you all know, this is also taking place on the special occasion of the IIEA's 30th anniversary. The French Minister for Europe and Foreign Affairs, Jean-Yves Le Drian, and the Minister of State for European Affairs, Clément Beaune will speak to us for about 15 minutes each, and then we will go to the Q&A with our audience. You will be able to join the discussion using the Q&A function on Zoom, which you should see on your screen. Please feel free to send your questions in throughout the session as they occur to you, and we will come to them once both ministers have finished their presentations. A reminder that today's presentations and Q&A are on the record. This event is also being live streamed. Both of our speakers will speak in French. The interpretation is available from French to English, and to avail of this live service, you can click on the interpretation button represented by a globe icon on the bottom right of your screen. If you're on an iPad, you can find that icon by clicking more in the upper right corner of your screen. And finally, if you're on a phone, you should have a pop-up up here. You select English to hear the interpreter. If you do not wish to avail of the service, you do not need to activate it, or you can select off. These instructions are going to be posted in the chat box now and you can refer to them at any time. Please feel free to join the discussion on Twitter using the handle at IIEA and the hashtag IIEA30. Let me now formally introduce to you our speakers before I hand over to Minister Le Drian to begin. Jean-Yves Le Drian is the Minister for Europe and Foreign Affairs of France, a position he has held since May 2017. Previously, he served as Minister of Defence from April 2012 to May 2017. As he mentioned in his article to the Irish Times last January, Minister Le Drian served as an elected representative for Brittany for many years. He served as the Mayor of Laurent from 1981 to 1998, and the President of Brittany's Regional Council from 1998 to 2004. Clément Bourne is the Minister of State for European Affairs of France, a position he has held since July 2020. Previously, he served as Special Advisor for European Affairs of President Emmanuel Macron from 2017 to 2020. And was at the heart of the landmark speech given in La Sorbonne by President Macron in September 2017. It has to be noted that his appointment was welcomed with clear enthusiasm by European capitals. Dear Monsieur les Ministres, nous sommes ravis de vous accueillir en Irlande. La parole est à vous, Monsieur le ministre Le Drian. Dear friends, good day. So I don't know what tomorrow's historians will say about the question that you have asked us to desk with you. What will Europe look like in 2021? But I believe this is something that will be of great interest to them because our continent is truly at a crossroads. And I'm sure that tomorrow's historians will also refer to the larger question, the world in 2021. We have been plunged in a pandemic for more than a year now and it has shown our strengths and both our weaknesses. This is a world that is highly interdependent between countries and between continents. And these are ties that bring us together for better for worse. And this has strengthened over the past decade due to an acceleration of trade and exchanges. This is also a world of common threats of common challenges that we much take up the threat of COVID-19 but also of climate change of the erosion of biodiversity terrorism and also of the deepening of inequalities. This is a world that is also experiencing a great deal of violence. There's a lot of flower plays that are occurring right now and this is becoming more apparent. There is an intensification of international competition that it takes place at all levels. Before we talked about hard power and soft power but now there are no lines. And in all areas, there is a high deal of competitivity and confrontation. This is also apparent in the implementation day in and day out of a dangerous type of antagonism. And some actors even call into question human rights and the very foundations of the multilateral system that we have built together after World War Two. So this world, Europe of today, well, the world of today, this is something that Europe looks straight at. And this was not always the case. For too long, Europeans felt like they were sheltered from the troubled waters of international crises. For a long time, Europeans refused to speak the language of power and underestimated their own strength, their own interests. And for too long, Europeans confused openness and naivete. Therefore, I believe that 2021 will be a decisive moment in terms of the European awakening, thanks to which we are leaving the era of innocence in order to fully arrive in the century of upsets but also of new opportunities. And thanks to the strength of European solidarity, we have truly underscored who we are. This is a decisive year because we have really underscored our willingness to master our own fate by strengthening our sovereignty. This is a decisive year, because we have moved forward with partners who have goodwill who have accepted to work with us in order to move forward on the international scene, and to express the voice of a new humanism by refusing the destruction of our common goods. So we have solidarity, we have the affirmation of our destiny and our willingness to act on the international scene, and this is what is happening in 2021 in Europe. And this of course is directly in line with the speech of President Macron, the Lassau Bonne speech which he uttered at the beginning of his term of office and it is an affirmation of what I'm describing today. We turn to solidarity, and also to this awakening, because it manifested itself, of course during the pandemic crisis. And we focused on this issue whereas it was not in under the competency of the European Union. So the Europe of Health is something that we took up in a pragmatic manner, and helped us weather the pandemic. So this is a form of solidarity that was already marked by efforts of coordination, whereby we have been able to manage as best as possible the European space together we had to make some difficult decisions, and we had to adapt our health rules and this is a new form of solidarity that has been implemented. And this form of solidarity has also been marked by the historical recovery plan that is going to generate results very quickly whereby we have borrowed as a block, you block and we will move forward as the European Union block. And this is an important year in that respect. Solidarity is also manifested via the manner in which, all together, we were able to initiate our vaccine strategy by negotiating amongst all 27 member states and by mobilizing ourselves. And ensuring that industrialists respect their commitments and also by ramping up our own production capacities. We also anticipated the development of new vaccines, particularly through the era in computer and also by being very vigilant regarding the introduction of new vaccines against vaccines. None of this was apparent prior to this. This was not written in stone, and therefore we had to show ourselves to be extremely responsive in order to go beyond the pre-established frameworks and to ensure that we could leverage a new strength. As such we were able to give new meaning to the words European solidarity. There's also a second aspect of this European awakening. Indeed, we were able to strengthen our European sovereignty. Sovereignty. This is a word that up until now was not commonly used in Brussels. As other words, people were hesitant to talk about interests. They were reluctant to talk about a European strategy about reciprocity, about European defense, of a level playing field. These were words that did not exist in the curses of culture, the semantic vocabulary of Europe. But today, these words are on the forefront because we live in a very challenging world. And as such, European sovereignty is a necessity. And it's also the continuation and the best guarantee of our national sovereignty. And many things have changed, particularly in the area of defense via the creation of a European Defense Fund via the European Intervention Initiative. When I became French Minister of Defense in 2012, at the time, very few of us could have ever have imagined that Europe would make so much progress in such a short time. Of course, on one hand we have the terrorist attacks, and also the fact that our strategic competitors have bolstered their efforts and also add to that the fact that there have been more fragility in certain relations. And all this means that today, we have a certain form of European strategic autonomy. And also by affirming our sovereignty, we also assumed other positions vis-à-vis China, for example. And we are designated China as a partner, but also as competitor, and as a systemic rival of Europeans. And we took firm positions in order to filter foreign investments that were set up by the European Union in strategic areas to ensure our future, to ensure our future of telecoms, biotechnology and infrastructures. In addition, together we have set a new trade policy that sets clear demands in terms of reciprocity and loyalty in terms of trade. In terms of affirming who we are, we are a power that is able to defend its own interests, even though we are a very open power. And under the French presidency that will begin soon, we wish to consolidate our digital sovereignty. This is a very large area and entails talking about regulations and standards in the line of the protection of data, but we also have other issues that are going to be leveraged in order to focus on standards and regulations, the DSA and DMA regulations that we will be implementing in order to strengthen our fight against illicit content. And also to ensure that we can regulate digital markets and services. And this is necessary so that we can defend ourselves against cyber attacks. And I know that Ireland, for example, has recently weathered a very significant cyber attack quite recently. But we also need to act in the digital area so that we can build on the industrial level and technological level, this next generation of technological discoveries, because this is part of our strength, this is part of our power and this is part of our sovereignty. We need to ensure that Europe can take up that challenge. And we need to ensure that at the international level, we are able to act so that we can have a free, open and secure internet. And this is the best way to avoid the double pitfall of the digital number jungle and other issues. This means that we also need to act at the international level, so that we can truly be the actors of a new power play so that we can really take our full fledged position at the international level and this is what we are doing in terms of combating the pandemic. France, Germany, the European Union with the World Health Organization has taken up the ACT initiative whereby we can act to ensure that global common goods such as health, climate issues, and the health in general be taken into account. And thanks to what we have implemented and this is the COVAX facility. This is an instrument that we can use so as to ensure that the entire planet can be vaccinated, because this is really a planetary challenge in which Europe needs to be a forerunner and this is what we have done in terms of tackling the pandemic. We're also doing this in order to ensure that there can be the vaccines can be produced in less developed countries, and that any barriers to this production can be removed. So what we're doing when this morning we launched a high level panel of experts focusing on the notion of one health. And this is necessary to ensure that in terms of health issues worldwide, there can be an IPP of the health and this is absolutely necessary to make the right decisions at the right time and this is how Europe plays its role internationally by demonstrating its solidarity towards other countries, and also by affirming itself as a world power and affirming its sovereignty but also by playing its part at the international level. So what is multilateralism in France, Germany as well as other countries who are members of the European Union are also focusing on multilateralism at the global level in order to take up the challenges that lie up ahead of us and in order to take the right decisions at the right time, so that we can avoid having power plays rivalries. And we need to open a third track that will rally everybody together, and that for me to 2020 is a political awakening it's actually a geopolitical awakening for Europe that will enable us to build a path towards European sovereignty and to be able to project ourselves in a new manner on the international arena. And it's in this perspective, dear friends that we are preparing French, Francis presidency of the first half year of 2022. Sorry, I'll say it in English. Please welcome now Mr Minister of State for European Affairs Clément Beaune who is going to deliver his address. Thank you. Thank you very much. Just a few words to pick up on what Mr Drian said about the issue of sovereignty and this crossroads we are finding ourselves at in Europe in 2021 just a few words about the crisis, the current crisis, and what it has changed for us in Europe. Fortunately, we're closer to the end of the crisis than the start. And so, we can take a look back and see what worked and what didn't work in this crisis and how it woke us up, how we adapted and how we can keep up the effort after these tough times, we've been experiencing and looking forward to our presidency of the EU next year if we look at this past year with this surprising shock of COVID, we can learn several lessons. Some things worked quite well in terms of solidarity and responsiveness in Europe and others that didn't work so well, especially at the start of the crisis. So if we look at this simplifying things we find that at the start of the crisis because there was no European coordination. And this pandemic was a shock for everyone, especially for the European club, which was not prepared for such a crisis and in particular such a health crisis. And there were some times, especially in March 2020, where there was a lack of solidarity, where borders were closed in a non-coordinated, non-cooperative fashion. And sometimes we went, we were at war with each other regarding masks and quickly EU started coordinating its efforts and if we look back at the last few months, we find that in those areas where there was a European competence, the European power, some creativity and political will, we were managed to rise up to the challenge of the crisis, especially in economic terms. There was the recovery plan mentioned by my colleague and we mentioned to put together a way to help each other out, which seemed unthinkable just a year ago. And we started this with Germany and then with all 27 member states. France and Ireland co-signed this back in March 2020. They signed a tribune with seven other countries to launch this discussion on a recovery plan. And back in March also, at European level, through flexible budget rules and competition rules in terms of state helps and through the action of the European Central Bank. We came up with a collective powerful response, more powerful than in the previous economic crisis 10 years earlier. So this is interesting. It doesn't mean that you can do everything right when you have the tools but it shows that we can do things right and with some discussion with this with political will and feisty news, we can work on this with the Germans and the European Commission and we managed to put together this recovery plan and rise up to the challenge of this incredible crisis. And then in other areas where you had no competence, such as health, the coordination was much more difficult and slower. Jean-Yves Le Drian mentioned the vaccines. After the initial phase of shocks or prize, even powerlessness, we were also able to develop original frameworks for action such as buying vaccines together. And we have been defending this actively. It showed the ability of the EU to create new solutions. And even though it was slow and there were some mistakes, probably there was true solidarity without which today in Europe, we would have 10 or even 15 countries without vaccines or at less favorable conditions. So we would have the inequalities we find an international level, and that's not in our moral, political or health interest, and we managed to avoid it by taking this collective response. The borders and the tensions regarding fundamental health equipment. So we had a hard time coordinating. So we have to think this through to prepare for the future and to work on the fields of action in Europe that we're not prepared for. Two years ago, if Jean-Yves Le Drian, me or my colleagues or the president had said, we have a great idea for Europe for recovery, we're going to set up a European health agency and get it all together on the health plane. People would have smiled and said there are other priorities. And now it's obvious that all these topics require and deserve European concerted action. Something we need to think about is the distribution of competences. There were some areas where the EU did most everything and other areas where it did almost nothing. We have to reassess that because you see this regarding health. We're not going to say that Brussels is going to manage our hospitals or health measures of opening or closing schools or restaurants. It would not be relevant. It's not the right level of action, but for other things such as vaccines, which require important funds to be put together that we need a European competence. We need to develop it. Jean-Yves Le Drian mentioned the incubator, the future era, European agency that will fund research. This is something we will absolutely need a European level without putting everything regarding health under European authority. And now I don't want to be too long, but let me mention three principles that are based on these initial lessons and we can use to direct our action for the EU in the coming months. Jean-Yves Le Drian mentioned sovereignty or autonomy, strategic autonomy, whatever the way you call it. We are in favor of this concept of sovereignty and we will be needing to take action in this area even more. And it's not just external policy or defense or new technology like 5G semiconductors, aerospace. We found in this crisis that sometimes sovereignty is manufacturing ability, industrial capacity. So we can ourselves manufacture health equipment that we too often outsource of short to a couple suppliers in China in particular. So we will have to run this concept of sovereignty. We realize this when we were lacking basic equipment a year ago. Also, this is my own obsession. We will need to give the EU an accelerator. It's not about just being on the right trajectory. You have to be at the right speed. The EU has done many things, especially in an area that was almost not existing at the start of the crisis. But we did it a bit late perhaps because we're not prepared, sometimes slower than others. It's a democracy of democracies as a club of countries. We want to consult each other and agree. So if we can't think this through, if we can think of faster decision making mechanisms, we take the risk of lagging behind other great powers such as the US or China. And there's a question I have who can't elude is the question of differentiation in Europe. We're a club of 27 countries. It's not going to get smaller, but we have to be able to make decisions faster. And I believe through strengthened cooperation, structured cooperation and perhaps political coalitions that are more agile. We need to be able to have political debates with just a few members states without excluding anyone and open up to more later. For example, the recovery plan. Had we not more than a year ago started with nine countries and then through the work with France and Germany taking the risk to launch this idea that seemed a bit. While at the time, we would have never been able to get on board the European Commission and all 27 member states who then managed to come to a consensus in the summer of 2020, but it required a spark with just a few at the start. So that's a few thoughts, a few initial lessons we could draw from this crisis we want to learn from it will be the case in France with a view to the presidency of the European Commission next year, and we'll try to speed up the thinking. And I hope many of you will participate. I hope these reflections will fuel the conference on the future of Europe, which, which started in early May, it's online and I think Ireland and France will be holding public political discussions. And as part of that, it may seem artificial, it may seem a gadget, but it's not. It's a great opportunity to think about our political priorities our ambitions are ways of making decisions are democratic processes to try and be faster, stronger and as united as we were as when we negotiated the Brexit. And when we face up to this crisis and all other challenges we faced in recent years so we can improve things further in the months and years to come. I think it's the right time to do it. Thank you very much. Thank you very much ministers for such broad ranging addresses and really insightful and analysis and for keeping to time as well. Please let me start with with the questions and answers that are have been coming in. I have a question first for Mr. Le Drian. It is from Professor Ben Tonra in University College Dublin. What are France's ambitions for the development of Europe's strategic autonomy, and how do the ministers see the strategic compass as contributing to this. Thank you for this excellent question. This discussion on the strategic compass is something that has been initiated, initiated, and I believe it will conclude under Francis presidency, the Council of the European Union, and it is our willingness to be able to achieve this and to implement this strategy. The goal is to define the priorities of our destiny and of our security. We need to ensure that the European Union is able to set goals for its own security and also to acquire the means as well as the partnerships through which Europe can commit itself to moving in that direction. This is extremely important, because in some time at NATO, there will be the definition of the new strategic concept, the global security situation has much changed over the past few years. Terrorism is on the rise as is the rise of certain powers. China has military ambitions, as does Russia, and new players have appeared on the scene. And this leads to questions at the transatlantic level. Therefore, we need to clarify all this so that Europe can acquire its own doctrine. Its own identity, its own willingness at the strategic level, and this through a reasoned partnership that is clearly defined with the United States and with the members of the Atlantic Alliance. And some are not a part of it. Therefore, you know, such as Ireland, therefore we need to ensure that all Europeans are able to ensure on their own security. This means that at the economic level, they need to have the right industrial foundations that have power such as Europe needs to acquire. But for example, give a few examples of this, it is vital that we can organize ourselves in order to be able to have industrial mastery of technologies of the future and sometimes we were lagging behind in that area. But now we need to mobilize all resources so that we can compete in this area and also to have autonomy in that area. I referred to the digital issue in my previous intervention, but we also need to have economic security, and we also need to focus on health. In Europe, we do not produce a single gram of paracetamol. We don't manufacture paracetamol I'm not a pharmacist but paracetamol is the, you know, minimum criteria for autonomy. We're not making ourselves to the world, but Europe is no longer simply a European market. It needs to be an area that provides for production and that can anticipate production. And within the strategic compass, we also need to define our security concepts in terms of cybersecurity, for example. We can be at the forefront because we have the means, both in terms of technology and in terms of European solidarity to take up that challenge. This will also help us combat terrorism. We can exchange intelligence, and we can acquire interoperability with our armed forces. I'm going to give you an example of this to show you how far we've come and the acceleration that is currently underway. When I as Ministry of Defense in 2014 with Mrs. Vanderlein, who at the time was also a Minister of Defense of Germany. Together we presented a concept that's called reinforced cooperation. That was something that had been enshrined in the Treaty of Lisbon, and it enables European nations to do more things collectively if they're willing to. And so we had suggested having reinforced cooperation in the area of defense in certain areas, who wants to work together in that area. In the beginning we were referring to areas that were not very dangerous. For example, we talked about military medicine, we talked about working on having health operations in the theater of war, and we were criticized. We said, oh, that's impossible. That was in 2014. And now PESCO permanent structured cooperation is shared by all member states of the European Union. So this shows the progress that has been achieved. And it certainly demonstrates that we are now accelerating this and this is absolutely essential for the future and also within the strategic compass. We will need to establish our relations with Africa with the Indo-Pacific region, and we also need to consolidate our relations with Latin America. But the new priorities for us are those that I have mentioned, both in the economic area and also in the area of security. And I just mentioned the broad lines of this. Thank you. I have a question for Minister Bone, and I'm going to take a couple of them together. The first question is from Professor Grace Neville in University College Cork, asking you where do you think Brexit is going to lead us and it comes together with a second question from Francis perspective what options do you think are on the table with the UK regarding a solution to make the Northern protocol work? Thank you very much. We're in a moment. Thank you very much. We're in a very difficult moment right now with Brexit. So achieving this agreement indeed would close a certain chapter and a negotiation that has been tense, complex, and in terms of the implementation of this agreement, we continue to experience difficulties. And to be absolutely clear, without being controversial, but it's a reality, we have difficulties because of the United Kingdom. The United Kingdom does not wish to completely implement this agreement. And I'm not referring to fishing issues, which of course are very sensitive issues for France and Ireland, but which illustrates the imperfect compliance with this agreement in that particular area. But there's another aspect that is more significant because it entails very heavy questions of peace and prosperity for Ireland in particular, and that's the North Ireland Accord protocol and this is something that was discussed at length and before the first protocol, there's the first agreement, which contains the Northern Ireland protocol as well as provisions aimed at finding a certain balance, an imperfect balance of course because Brexit in itself creates a certain amount of friction and monetary controls. This is not the choice of Europeans, it is, you know, the consequences of the Brexit. But the UK and the European Union we have come up with this solution which is a pragmatic solution, you know, the Northern Ireland protocol which protects the markets and also limiting the borders and by respecting the Good Friday agreement as well as conditions that are necessary for stability. But now we need to ensure that this protocol is entirely respected and this is our expectation from the UK. And if this is not the case, this would call into question the agreements that bind us, but it would also present a danger for the European Union and for Ireland in the future for all of us. This is not to say that there cannot be any discussions or any flexibility. Ireland, as France is open to this, also with the Brits and in fact we have demonstrated a lot of willingness. And so the Vice President, your commission who's in charge of this is also endeavour to try to find solutions in order to limit friction between the Great Britain and Northern Ireland and also to maintain the protocols balance. But the central axis is the protocol, the protocol cannot be suppressed. The protocol is not the problem. It is the solution that we have come up together in order to confront this issue. We hope that we are simply going through a period of adjustment with the UK, and that this does not illustrate a willingness to provoke the European Union, or to conduct an offensive strategy. This should not be acceptable and we are still in discussions and there are contacts between the European Commission and the UK. And as such we need to collectively tell the UK that the only way is the entire application of the protocol. And then after we could do that we can discuss other modalities, but this is the only manner whereby we can ensure. This is a situation that is also a front of mind for us. This is the only way that we can ensure the collective stability, the protection of the internal market, peace in Ireland and these are sensitive issues and we need to show collective responsibility in terms of taking up those issues. Thank you very much Minister. As you know it's a sensitive topic. How do you see Ireland's position on corporate taxation, given that Pascal Donohue, our Minister for Finance says that we can have healthy tax competition, and that the rate of 12.5% will remain. Right, I can't settle this question here and now. We may have disagreements. It happens and we have this disagreement with Ireland on the question of taxation of companies. And in particular, digital companies, we believe we need to convert so we can have a single market with the free competition and strength towards the outside world and that is one point we don't agree on, in which case we should both make efforts. And I think Ireland may do some thinking about this question and so far as the US has made efforts as regards a digital company taxes. These big companies make big profits around the world. And they're basically offshore and they don't pay any contribution to the draft community or the national communities where they work it's not quite moral. And I think the American initiative as moral brings more moral to the table so that's on the table we need to discuss this. This was a question from Sarah Collins in the Irish Independent. Now, I have a question for Minister Bourne. Faced with complex conflicts such as the one between Israel and the Palestinians, will we ever be able to arrive at a strong and unanimous response from Europe and how and at what price. I think Jean-Yves Le Drian can better answer this question because he worked on this question last Tuesday. If he doesn't mind. Mr. Le Drian, what do you think about the question confronted to with such conflict complicated conflicts as the one in Israel with Palestine, will the EU be able to give a strong united response. On this issue. Like Le Monk Bourne told you the ministers of foreign affairs in EU had an extraordinary meeting on this question two days ago. And we came up with a declaration a statement from the high representative in charge of our external affairs or foreign affairs we meet every month to discuss our position or this or that. A question like a relationship with China, Russia or Africa. And the question of Israel and Palestine is at the heart of the concerns of the EU, even when we didn't have an EU, a foreign policy. The first statement on this dates back to 1981. It was the Venice declaration was the first time the EU spoke up on the fundamental processes of a peace process, ie to states living in peace and recognized borders, having both Jerusalem as a capital and good harmony with the neighbors. That's the basic principles of what the EU still believes which are unfortunately being questioned now today so cool. We allowed the representative to speak on behalf of all 27 of us is a simple things. First of all, it's immediate ceasefire. It was approved by the Security Council of the UN and the launch of humanitarian initiatives, especially in the Gaza Strip and then finding the way to reopen the dialogue on the basis of the concept that's internationally recognized so far. Through acts of confidence through small steps, how can we achieve a virtuous political process because there's a question because there's no political path ahead on the EU needs to take action. I know Ireland is playing an active role in this, and I'll be discussing this in a moment with my counterpart. We have a question about the lessons, or actually it's a question from Francis Jacobs, he's a member of the IEA, what positive and negative lessons have the French government gained from the recent French citizens convention for climate. And how can citizens be directly involved in the European conference on the future of Europe. Another question that is associated to this as well in terms of, is France looking for a treaty change in what areas, what is France perspective and expectations from the conference on the future of Europe. Well, I know we love treaty change in Ireland with the questions and that maybe and the and the citizens climate convention we had in France until quite recently. Just a word to say that it was also inspired by an Irish experience, which was I think citizens assembly, which led under your control to constitutional changes in Ireland before. And I think a lot of European democracies, including France and Ireland are looking at complementary ways, innovative ways to have these open citizens debate. I think we should be clear it cannot, it should not replace elected institutions, parliaments and so on, but it can give another light and other inspirations to a public debate. And I think in Europe, we have very few moments and very few places when or where there is an open political debate. Actually it was one of the benefits I think of the crisis because at the beginning it was very difficult and very tense as I recall a few moments ago. We had a recovery plan and budgets of fiscal solidarity. We had difficult political debates, but it's good. We need these democratic debates, even when we are not in different capitals in different countries and agreements at the beginning. And then we find compromises, even consensus and we move on. So I think even more after the crisis we can need this moment of breath, I can say, of opening in which, as we did in some countries for a few months, we will ask citizens panels, building on these experiences, but also European Parliament, a plenary of this conference in the future of associating national parliaments, European parliaments, member states, governments and so on, to contribute, to make proposals, to make criticism, to put on the table some dreams, ideas, even crazy ideas, and then we will see it's a gamble in the way. What we can do with that. President Macron, when the conference was open in Strasbourg a few days ago, said we have to make a political commitment as politicians and leaders in Europe, he said, to use this material, these contributions to make some legislative proposals and changes after the conference, maybe not 100% of what could be proposed, certainly not 100% of what could be proposed because there will be also contradictory opinions will be taken on board. But we will see what priorities will emerge. We had this political experience in a different manner in France four years ago by President Macron's political movements was called Grand March, also an interesting experience. And we saw that the priorities we thought would be the biggest citizens priorities, we are not the one we imagined. For instance, we saw, we usually think that employment security are the two main, if you look at the polls and some priorities. In this case, it was clear that was gender equality and housing that came first. That was interesting because it could be taken on board in a political manifesto. Maybe we will see the same experience, maybe we will have some surprises in terms of priorities and then we will have to act and to say to citizens what we do with the proposals, I think it's quite sounds it's quite necessary to do it after the crisis. So it's not exactly to go directly to your question like as a citizens assemblies or the climate convention we had because it's less targeted. So it's also more difficult to handle but we will try to whether it will lead to treated change or not. I don't know. And what we have said what President Macron has said consistently that it should not be easy entry points, but it should not be a taboo. I think nobody's really interested in saying I will contribute to a debate in Europe because I have article 320 of the critique to modify. I don't think maybe for a few experts but very few. It's not the entry point. So the entry point is migrations climate is health is investment recovery and son. And then if in the proposals we see that there is a big push for some modifications reforms that could need in the end, but we did change. Let's open the door the window and let's think about it debate about it will not happen immediately anyway. And as we know we will need, we would need 27 countries to agree on this which would take time anyway. So, let's not exclude it. It's, I would think it would be useless or counterproductive to make it a taboo. But let's focus on the substance this conference is about the substance of policies. And we will see what changes would be necessary in terms of the legislation, maybe later on in terms of treaty that could happen. If you want my personal feeling in the next 10 years, we'll probably need a treaty change to facilitate decision making to adapt some policy areas and competencies as we discussed health also probably, but we can do a lot. We should do a lot before that, without this big change, this big constitutional debate to be pragmatic to be concrete. And again, it's a matter of speed to prove that Europe can be changed soon and efficiently. Thank you very much. I'd like to ask you one more question Minister born before concluding with Mr le Drian. We are getting a lot of questions, asking you whether you will be discussing the mandatory hotel quarantine while you are here. And myself will be discussing this when we have political discussions with our counterparts and just a few moments and that is not the reason per se for a visit to Ireland but of course it is an issue that is of concern to the French community and French other and a few other European countries. And this will be something that will be discussed, as we adapt to the progress of vaccination in countries in Europe, which has also greatly improved recently in France, you know, with the progressive and cautious reopening of our countries and so we will have this discussion, Jean-Yves Le Drian and myself with our two Irish counterpart parts and just a few moments. In fact, Minister Le Drian, we do have one last question. Should try to approach Russia in order to improve relations between the two blocks between Europe and Russia. Does this still represent a part of French foreign policy. Yes, we are observing that currently, as you have observed, and as European public opinion has observed. Well, Russia is having a triple authoritarian drift with the Navalny case, which is not the first one. And this has led to arrests. And there have also been reciprocal sanctions implemented against various European personalities on the part of Russia. And there's also been drift in terms of the very environment of Russia here I'm referring to the Ukraine Ukraine. There's been greater threats along the Ukrainian borders with Bella Russia as well and here there are many actions that have been taken by Russia that are of great concern. And that reflect a willingness to create instability by Russia within its immediate environment and there's also another concerning change and these are the attacks in cyberspace. So this does not lead to prevail for relationship of trust with Russia, yet, and yet I say this again Russia is our neighbor. Sometimes you have neighbors who are a bit bothersome sometimes you have neighbors who are irritating you have neighbors who are noisy at night but that does not change the fact that they are your neighbors and you can't do anything about that. Therefore, we need to note that Russia is our neighbor, and Russia is not planning on moving out. Therefore, we need to maintain our ties with this major country, even though there are some current authoritarian drifts that are occurring. And we need to maintain our ties with Russia to ensure that Russia does not turn towards Asia, for example, and we must ensure that Russia remains firmly rooted in on the European continent, to which we all belong to and that's why President Macron has opened a dialogue or tried to open up dialogue, and we're determined to can you trying to open up dialogue and this is also the position of the European Union to keep an open door for discussion. And of course we do this, you know, without being naive about it. But this is a necessity. And we need to be clear right about what Russia might do in those three areas that I mentioned. I would like to thank you ministers for delivering such stimulating addresses and covering such a broad range of issues in the Q&A. I would also like to thank Ambassador Vincent Guerin and the French Embassy for helping organize this event and finally my thanks go to the audience for your abundant questions. My apologies for not getting to all of them in time. Dear ministers, you have challenging months ahead of you. We would like to wish you the very best with the French presidency of the Council of the European Union. Ireland is very much looking forward to cooperating closely with France on the European stage on a range of issues. It was a pleasure and a personal honor to animate this discussion. Thank you very much and very good continuation for your visit to Ireland.