 All right, so up next, leveraging the power of music for Brand Connect. Now this is a big one. And I've been joined by our session chair, a video friend as well, amazing human being, founder, director, the Ignite Enterprise, Sergeant Nishant, along with him is going to be the speakers. Please welcome Ramita Chaudhary, chief market here, Mao India, Lloyd Matias, angel investor and business strategist, along with Manpreet Singh Coacher, founder and CEO, A&M, studio entertainment, private limited. Along with them is Brugha Umranya, actor, creative entrepreneur, and of course, the founder and music culture, Vishwa Deepak Dixit, and over to you, my friend Saju, and wishing you a very happy World Music Day and International Yoga Day. Thank you, thank you, Mithin. It's a great day, it's a musical day as you all know and you know, what better day than to celebrate with my dear colleagues and friends from the industry and the fraternity. Thank you for organizing this Ruhail and the entire team at BWN Exchange for Media. And thank you, PTC, for supporting this initiative. It's a pleasure to have my co-panderous here, Lloyd Slomathais and Ike Nadoy. And when I started, when I entered the industry, he was already in action there and so long, he's been here. Vishwa, it's a pleasure to connect with you, you're virtually Ramita. We haven't met before, but glad to connect here. And Manpreet, my good old friend from the many years of the experiential to marketing and Brugha. Is Brugha here yet? I can't see Brugha here. So let's get on with this wonderful topic which we have for today, gentlemen and lady. It's all about the big bucks is what we're talking about today, right? It's about how do we back fraternity, the talent, the business of music as we have progressed from where it was to now. And I guess no better way than to let our legendary expert, Lloyd, take us through it, right? Lloyd, you've seen the emergence of the business. You've seen not just music, but entertainment as a whole evolve in our country, right? From the many centuries and decades, right? Decades actually. So Lloyd, if you can tell us before we get to the specific topic which you are talking about, how can marketers leverage the power of music? Give us a little insight of how it was, how it evolved and where we are now, if we can. So we get a kind of a kick start. Hey, thank you, Shaju. And thanks for having us. Thanks, Exchange for Media Team. And great meeting old friends here. Hi Manpreet, hi Vishwa, hi Ramita. Hi. Great to see you guys. Thanks for this kind word, Shaju. I think it's been a very interesting journey. I spent a lot of years with Pepsi and then subsequently with Potrolol. But just as a sense to give you my broad online thoughts, I think it's very important to remember that sound of music has the power to evoke imagery, moods, memories and stir emotions, right? And we as Indians are also a very oral society. A lot of us have grown up with music, right? The Vivid Bharti, the radio in our homes. So I think music is an integral part of life, right? When a bunch of us get together, music is part of it, but very often we break into a sing song, right? And Takshari is in a sense part of our tradition, right? So sound and music has the power to evoke imagery, moods, emotions, memories and it has a great hold to play. And also I think we have to recognize I was there for that part of the last session, that music in a sense is universal language, right? A lot of us may not necessarily understand Punjabi, but it's not difficult to dance to know our peppy Punjabi song or any language for that matter, right? And therefore in the context of brands, I would say music collaborations help brands strike a chord with fans. And not just strike a chord, but they also tend to remember a brand much longer. I remember one of the things that Pepsi used to pour over a lot is not just choosing a good track for our commercials, but trying to make a particular music score as part of the brand memory, right? So it's not just a great tagline, like a right choice baby or whatever the lines Pepsi used over time. It was also trying to make the music distinctive and memorable, right? Because the clear belief was that helps a commercial stay longer. And I would say if we cut to the present, I think that's even more important, right? We all know that attention spans our shrinking. In the digital world, the consumer doesn't have the attention to stay longer. Right, if you're watching a YouTube video, you've got that five seconds to impress a consumer and then he skips your ad. And therefore, very often more than just a visual, I think it's music that can play a key role in terms of building some connection with the fan, with the potential customer, building a bit of an emotional connect that can make it longer. Right, if you all look back at our past, we have a lot of ads seamlessly come to mind, which typically have strong jingles, right? The moment I say Bacardi, I think everyone in his mind hums that famous Bacardi song on the beach and that whole imagery comes alive, right? And this has happened time and again, even in the context of ETL, right? The moment they play one of those ETL tunes, you immediately recollect. Titan for the last two and a half decades have actually used a lovely sign-off which has now become part of it, right? And it transcends language. And anywhere you go and you hear that jingle, you know, it kind of evokes memories. So I think there's a lot, the power of music is immense. I believe that brands in general haven't used it enough. And I'm not, I'm saying a very general statement. I know that our brands have used it well. And not just in terms of commercial, I also think brands can use it as a 360 degree approach, right? So at Pepsi, we did a lot of, you know, live events, right? And associating with a hot upcoming star gives a very positive rub off to your brand. I remember the times when, you know, it was cool for young people to listen to Western music. You know, when we got Ricky Martin in town, it was fantastic. Now we recognize that, you know, Ricky Martin predominantly sang Spanish, right? This is 98. But yet it was startling the amount of people that actually attended this concert. Or even, you know, to a more distinctive audience, we did a Yanni concert again in the late 90s. So I think we can play a very, very critical role to brands and marketers. And to my mind, to a large extent, it goes untapped. And there is a great trade opportunity for marketers to do business. Thank you, Lloyd. I had a little slip up with the connection, but I'm sure what was heard was absolutely spot on. And you've seen it, you've seen it as a journey, right? I think I caught some play where you said about how brands backed up various events as well. The live concert business, when I remember the early years of my experiential marketing and live events business, we had beverages backing up as throughout constantly, right? And off late, unfortunately, we are in a non-live event space, right? So looking forward to it, and Ramit, if I can take the opportunity to come to you now, with the brand that you are in the beverage space, how do you see that changing? Because like what Lloyd mentioned, and I kind of saw, you know, from the Coke and Pepsi's and the multiple other alcohol beverages, they used to back music and live music events constantly. How do you see your brand and your perspective on this association to help music generation come? Hi, hi, everyone. It's true that the brands, I mean, past few years, let's not take it into consideration, considering the fact that live events are not something that one can have pandemic situation. But yes, music is used very, you know, intrinsically by different brands to leverage, depending on what stage of the brand they are in. Like in my experience in my work career, for example, if it is media, I feel there are two, three ways where brand is associated in marketing, music marketing. One, if it is content, for example, radio, where I was just going to say for Big FM, if 80% of your product is music, then there's a particular way of involving music. That's how it has happened so far, for positioning of your station and you know, what kind of genre of music you're choosing so that that identifies your main business with music. That's one. Secondly, where brands are made brand pillars, different band pillars to promote their brand. So Tubog, when we launched Tubog, music was a very, very big integral part globally. And in India, obviously a lot of regionalization happens. So the hip-hop and the EDM that was the platform, we, you know, like we partnered with Sunburn, which is known to be the biggest, you know, EDM festival, obviously that made, gave the brand connect. Also regionalization bringing for different channels when it was a stronger brand, because of course, alcoholic beverages, it's a restricted category. So sponsoring live events or even having brand ambassadors who are from the music domain and genre and associations were created an experiential way more, more relevant because you are restricted in ATL, honestly speaking. So that's another way where you got hip-hop artists, international hip-hop artists, we tied up with Sunburn and sponsored Sunburn. Then we did regional music festivals because for the stronger brand, Tubog Strong, you know, it made sense, like a Mohit Johan maybe for, you know, like we brought for Delhi Bombay and for regional artists in Hyderabad, Bangalore or even in Calcutta, they were Bengali artists. So that's another way where if your brand pillar stands for music, then that's another way of association. So that people start connecting the brand with a particular element, which is music and which is very popular. It's an universal language, right? All across the globe. Or sometimes you also use music to leverage your activations, like in my last, this Mao brands where a lot of Spanish nights, you were talking about Ricky Martin and remember in India, people think Spanish music is equal to Ricky Martin, which is not true for Spanish aspect. There's a difference between Mexican and Spanish, but nevertheless, so when we used to have Spanish nights because it's a Spanish beer with Kanya Stapas, of course a lot of Latino and the Spanish genre music and we used to use very aggressively so that there's a connect of Spanishness. So brands, what it stands for, what it wants to give as a platform or a message is what and how music gets connected to different brands, depending on what is the message that you're wanting to drive or associate. But yes, that sponsorships, big artists, physical events, live events, that time I think it is changing also thanks to the pandemic situation where a lot of things is virtual. So a lot of things are shifted and will be shifting more towards digital music, virtual in social media and virtual domain. So the way we think as marketers also has to change accordingly. Instead of having live concerts, how we take music, if music is a platform to our audiences via the digital medium, whether it's streaming or whether it's TikTok, whether it's even YouTube has it through YouTube or even in-store Facebook, all of them has some even radio is going live nowadays, virtual live nowadays to bring music, streaming of music. So that is something one really needs to figure out how to encash and how to use it for the benefit of the brand to reach out to the audiences because that physical concept of artists, big time shows and live concerts, those things actually physically not possible because of the situation. And more so because of the digital era, the millennials and the generation Z and their way of consuming media and brand is more on the social media and digital platform. So we really, really need to think more on the digital music marketing platforms, how, when, where to take our brands closer to the audience for the modern era and under the current circumstances. For example, we are having this webinar here on music where musicians are here to talk about it or even live sessions can be possible. So we have to think about those things. So yes, there is a shift change in the mindset of how we bring music to our audiences, that has to change and which in my mind should be more on the digital and the social media platform going ahead. Right, thank you. In fact, yeah, we don't have a choice in the current world but going forward, I'm hoping there's a hybrid world and there is also a live world coming soon. And Ramita, you cued me on to maybe take me to Vishwa in terms of this next query, Vishwa, where we have this new world of music consumption, right? Where we were in 2019 and where I say DC to now where we are in 2021 EC, DC before Corona and now hopefully the after Corona mode beyond. How do you see this new world of music consumption? Like what Ramita said, how can music producers or talent and cash and how will be the amplify if you could give us an incentive this world of the digital ecosystem. And with music culture, I believe there's a lot of self happening, right? Yeah, actually one of the biggest focus for us that music culture is also a brand connect with the musicians. So we are working on something, we are creating something, an index which talks about the relative brand value of musicians. Now, I see two sides to it largely. Digital space is one that is going to be predominantly playing a very big role in the expansion, the band connect, et cetera, et cetera. And within that digital space also, there are two sides that can be really focused on. One is of course the music part of it, the content part of it. Apart from it, which is already being discussed, people are talking about it. Apart from it, what I see next happening is the brand value part of the musician himself or herself. For example, we all from a brand's perspective, everybody thinks about getting endorsements from a cricketer or a movie star. I think the next value chain is going to come from musicians. They have a very fantastic following follower base. They have a very loyal fan base, the ones that follow them there to the team. So when I see through music culture what's going to come in the future, I think the digital space, followership of the musicians is something that can be of a lot of value to the branch and something that needs to be harnessed very, very well in the coming times. Look, there's also something that it needs to be improvised from the industry perspective, from the musician perspective, but I see a lot of connect happening in the future in the times to come. So as music culture, we are actually working in this direction to figure out what and how and when can this happen. Vishwa, just on that context, one as a marketer, the challenge that comes to my mind is that thanks or no thanks to the pandemic, the shape of the usage of media now is very personalized, right? So from the big way of doing concerts and having a mass way of reaching out music to the audiences, it's more customized, it's more personalized, right? What's with the next generation? So how do the brands, marketers and brands via the medium, how do we make it more personalized and more customized for the consumption? Because all these TikToks, Spotify, everything is very personalized. So how do we, that's a big challenge. How do we reach out to the audience where it's no more mass, no more one message? The end user has become very, very, I mean myself, my category, my choice, et cetera. So how do we reach that gap will be, I feel it a big challenge so that it seems seamless rather than suddenly becoming the bigger concert type to many nature personalized music platter for the end consumer because they are more customized. They want more customized content than newer generation. So I think that will be a big challenge where all of us really need to think how we reach that gap. So I think what you said is very spot on, right? I mean, the next generation is very different from what earlier has been. They want something very specific. They want something very, you know, customized to their liking stage, whatever, et cetera, et cetera. I would suggest on a very lighter note, subscribe to our brand value index. You'll get to know a lot of details, okay? Second thing is we are also trying to figure this out. Like you said, it is something that is going to be evolutionary. We don't have a written formula for this, but this is something that I think a lot of players need to work together and to reach there where we want to be. If the goal is clear, the goal is to harness musicians, brand value to a greater extent than just using the music part of it. And I believe that there is a lot more than that can be done. But as you rightly said, the challenges are going to be different in the current world order, but I think this world order is also quite temporary. And if we take a 10 years horizon or a five years horizon, things will start looking a little more clearer than what we want to do because we can't really base our models of marketing or branding based on a couple of years. We have to look at five years and 10 years horizon. And then things will start looking much clearer as to what we want to achieve. Now, there are two sides to it from where I see it. One is of course, the quantitative part of it. There is also a qualitative part of it. The qualitative part of it is going to be very specific to each brand. And that's where the complexity will come further in the whole scheme of things. Anyway, but to answer, this is a long topic I keep going on and on, but to answer Shahju's question very shortly. So I see two sides of it. One is the content part. Second is the brand value musicians themselves. I think both need to be harness and both will see a huge upside in the times to come with specifically digital being the more predominant mode of consumption by the younger generation. I like to say that. Yeah, and Ramita, thanks for that Q. I think we need to pull out a lot more from Vishwa, right? In terms of national happen, yeah. Yeah, I'll come to you on that. We have a couple of more panelists in as well. And I'd like to welcome Ruga now into the session. And Manpreet, before I come to you, if I can get a little Ruga's perspective before I get you to sum up the first round. Ruga, you come from a creative space, right? You've been in features and music videos and all that. And you're talking about how can marketers leverage the power of music. What do you look forward from brands or marketers when you're creating content? I mean, we have a couple of doins here. We have brands here. What would you want from a brand to help you kind of upscale your product? See, the technical thing of any song is the audio. The audio part needs to be very strong. In any song, even more than the video, the audio is very important. And we can just add some brand names to it and make it a commercial song as well. Like it could be used as a marketing tool for the relevant brand, which has been the case in the past also. And there have been a huge number of hits, be it like, you know, the Lamborghini song or Munni Badnam Hui or the Fevicol, Fevicol Vala song. So there have been like so many number of hits back in the day since decades now, I can say starting from Kingfisher, Jingle, Jingle again is another thing. But coming back to the songs, we can just add some brand names to the lyrics and make it more meaningful. All right, so what you mentioned and I pick up those tracks, right? Those are the classic Bollywood hits which we all seen and heard of, right? Yeah. Manpreet, is it really Bollywood? And you know, I was listening to the opening keynote session from Mr. Blaise Fernandez earlier today, talking about how the Indian cinema industry or let's say the Hindi cinema as well has been driven by a lot of success of film songs, right? And watch them without just mentioning. And now from an independent creation like you are leading the A&M studio setup, it's a lot of independent talent and music being developed. If you could take us to what was your envisage or your vision from a marketing background, brand marketing to actually being a content creator, where did this journey begin and what do you see as a future for us as a business, combining brand marketing and content together? Okay, so you're kind of asking me to make it more tougher and rounding up to what Lloyd started with then Romy, taking it up further and what wish for added value and what Luka is looking out for. You're the only one, sir. So the roster has started. So what Lloyd really mentioned was the days in 1990s when he was in Pepsi and I was in Coke. That is the time when we actually saw independent music at the maximum. And Chaju, if you remember, you were in Wiskarp, you got Michael Jackson in. It was Pepsi's sponsored that time. Pepsi was more concentrating on the English genre than the western genre of artists, while in India, Coca-Cola was looking at more of the local artists. So if we all would remember, Shan, Shankar Mahadevan, Sukbir, Anayda, Namika, they all started with independent music and which was on the maximum forte and focused at that particular time. And both the beverages company were actually promoting them and were integrating them in their commercials, in their live events space. That particular time is also what has been continuing. But yes, Bollywood, somewhere took the front seat on it and kind of came in and dominated the music and took over the songs which were popular independent songs also. So like for example, if you see, Rabi Shergill came up with Bulla Ki Jharnah Mekhan and taken in by one movie. Then you see Honey Singh songs getting sold in. Then you see Coke Studio songs sold in to many Bollywood movies. So it's not that it's not been there. Now when we talk about the emerging artists, the space where A&M Studio is in and where A&M Studio is primarily focusing in is independent music as well, Bollywood music as well. Also live events, which actually gets them the money, not just to the emerging artists, but to all the artists of all stages completely. Yes, we are giving a lot of focus towards encouraging them, mentoring them to come up with their own lyrics, come up with their own compositions, come up with their own songs. And because of the market of music labels growing more, like we've seen in the past one year itself, Vishal Bhardwaj has come up with MV Music, the same metal has come up with his own music label. There are many, many more music labels are right now on the charts to be launched anytime, which gives more opportunities to a lot of these young stars, a lot of these emerging artists to get their songs getting promoted, getting made well, getting made and marketed very well. So that's an area where we would say about 50 to 60% is our focus there, but unfortunately, or fortunately, you need two or three current Bollywood successes to make you popular. And for you to get more live ends for brands. So that's where the integration and the hybrid model also needs to work, where there is a mix of a few Bollywood, but a few independent songs like the way all these today who are celebrities who started early as emerging artists in early 90s and late 80s with Alisha Shanoi making Made in India, you know, that's the wave that we need to promote right now. And that's exactly where endeavor of A&M Studio is still going on. And I would really, I would really thank Lloyd to have covered the part which was about the bingers and the brand ads that he mentioned. And the current one, which is there to highlight in the digital space today is HCL Concerts. If we have to learn from HCL Concerts, they're not just promoting singers, promoting all kinds of musicians. Even a single musician concert is happening on the HCL format. And that's exactly what we did with eight digital music festivals across in 2020. In fact, right now, my Facebook is loaded with world music annual which was celebrated in these 20 days. It was becoming the biggest ever digital music festival ever done in the world. Lloyd, if I may take your permission as a senior, always like I do, I did check it up with my ex-colleagues in Coca-Cola and got to know that there's been no listing of a 25 day non-stop digital concert ever done which we successfully completed over 25 days last year, which was called the World Music Carnival, celebrating World Music Day. Hence we couldn't get the award otherwise. In fact, if I may come in, why are you not doing it this year? Is it because of no brand backing it up or is it because of the environment? Sorry, I just came in straight to what's topic. Only the unfortunate amount of losses of lives which have happened across the environment and too much heavy levels of depression and monetary losses of musicians and singers. The mood is not that upbeat to heal the world, rather we are hungry and we are eager right now that the market opens up for monetary backup to these singers. So that's what is not just holding us back. That is what is keeping us comforting them not to push them to sing or bring entertainment right now. I think we need to cool down a little bit while this COVID phase two or wave two passes completely. Sure, sure. No, no, I agree on that and I would also say that we all know music heals our soul and music will heal. The world literally maybe it's time to get a modern day anthem of the world and I'm hoping the talent from a country could come up with that. Lloyd coming back to you and then I'll open up for all panelists as well is that and there's something which was playing on my mind since yesterday. Are there mistakes with certain brands that are doing by marketing music or by marketing musical talent? I mean, are there any learnings which are there for both from a brand marketing perspective or talent that we have missed out on or missing out on? Because I do know a lot of brands have been backing up for content and talent but are there any learnings which you can pick up as we go forward? Thank you, Shahji. I think fair question. Just want to make one little point and I think Manpreet said it very well. I think it's very important for brands not to be tone deaf and therefore I respect what he said that given the scale of devastation that phase two has caused, doing something like a kind of fun concert may have seen a little seemed out of place in that April May period but now with life slowly picking up and the show must go on as we say, I think it's good. But I think it's important and I respect what you say that brands have to be very concerned about what's happening and not sound tone deaf. So I think point taken but going forward we certainly need to pick things up. Shahji, coming to the point on mistakes I would really call them mistakes but I think what brands often do incorrectly if I may add and I had the benefit of let's say Motorola and to an extent HP did a couple of things with YouTube. I think it's important for a brand to take a slightly longer term position. The way music is democratized. So you don't need to work with one artist or one property you can work with a white swathe of artists like in the past we were restricted let's say you type in Sony music and then you have a repertoire of a limited number of artists. Today brands can pretty much pick and choose their artists and the way they want to go. Is it really about song associations? Is it about artist associations? Is it about doing a multi-series concert again? I think brands should take once they take an association look at it in a 360 degree manner which means if you are promoting a genre of music that you want to associate with then try and do it through the line. Use it whether it's about the line advertising use it in your various communication tools use it if you're doing an on-ground promotion leverage it through the line so people start associating that genre of music or that particular thing with your brand. And if I may just use an example of a brand that I think has used music very well is Bacardi. The Bacardi Jingle is very resonant of what the brand stands for. It's young people, it's a care free outdoor beachfront kind of atmosphere. It kind of holds the whole thing together. So I think it's important to kind of have a deeper association for a brand use it in a 360 degree manner so it becomes more than just a one-off never two tactical things tactical things will only give you so much results whereas the moment you have a longer term association then you begin to get associated with the property on a long duration of time and that gives you value. You know Coke was a competitor but I think Coke Studio was a benchmark in how to use music identifying great talent running an extremely popular television show using some of these artists on a more ongoing basis and having effective community participation getting your audience into saying hey I'm going to provide you world-class music which is kind of almost crowd-sourced. So I think that's the element. Take a deep association, make sure that you use it in a 360 degree manner and have a slightly longer term commitment, right? A one month or a short term tactical thing never works to your advantage. It's the moment you have a longer term and a deeper association that you begin to get real value as a brand. Very true. Hi, this is Anisha from Warner Music and I completely agree with you, South. Having a short term and just to make the product big having the music in the, you know, the advertisement campaign or associate with the music is going to give you a benefit but for a short term period. But when you are having an association for a wider perspective where there are music is a credential or you can say it's a very crucial part of any brand or any product. No matter, not even the brand but if there is a music which is crucial towards it for a longer perspective it's definitely going to add a lot of value because as a layperson or as an audience you associate with that product like it's correctly given example of Bakari. So when we know that there is a Bakari promoting anything, any product or anything you clearly remember that there is going to be a music around it. So yes, having a longer association with the wider list of singers and the artist and also the association with the different genres it's not necessarily you have to stick to the genre. I think since we have seen a lot of trends which keep on changing though it is very necessary to be updated with the trends which are happening but it should also- Sorry to interrupt you Anisha, sorry. Thank you for actually coming in. You need to give me about five, 10 minutes more if I could open up from the panel discussion. You almost sounded like a voice of God, you know. So I was wondering who's speaking. Okay. Yeah, no worries. Thank you for the endorsement and you know your interactive participation in this but give us about 10 minutes to come back to an open session if I could just let our panelist speak a little more and then happy to hear your thoughts as well Anisha, if that's okay. I had a few points about when you mentioned about learning. I think historically the learning has been my humble opinion, whatever I've seen in the past 20 years that music has been used by brands. I wouldn't say abusive way but everywhere. Just because music was trending there are lots of brands who have just used music, you know like as a platform which sometimes a lot of times it has not worked unlike a Bacardi which has become iconic or you know other brands who have made it iconic. So understanding why and where to music music as a platform is very important. Specifically in today's context because just because music is popular doesn't mean one can use it music, you know where's the connect with the brand? Why does it which target or doesn't stand for whether there is a relevance or not, that's one. And secondly, again that point is stuck in my mind Vishwa as you are saying like yes, the couple of years experience should not dictate long-term strategy. No, it should not 10 years, 15 years from now but something I think the current situation is not anywhere to go in the near future. Nobody has seen pandemics before. It's a biological, I don't know, I'm just taking a very unpolitical term as biological warfare. If it is, maybe it has a long-term impact number one. Secondly, millennials and Generation X and I don't know which generation is coming up that is gonna be with more number of years. And the biggest problem that will happen for any marketer or companies that their attention span is very less like web series have come up, short films have come up, 20-second reels are becoming very popular. So that is a very big challenge when you take up music as a platform. How do we customize? How do we personalize it? How do we, as Sir said, how do we make a 360 degree effort? It cannot be a standalone platform anymore. Under the umbrella, there has to be many strategies also how we are fitting it because the way to be consumed and the time in which it will be consumed the span, attention span is so small. It will become very, very important for all of us to think on those lines before we can, you know, present our music as a platform for any brand. Otherwise, I don't think there will be any impact, you know, like even TikToks, it's so small and kids are always with headphones nowadays, but they're switching channels like every two seconds and sometimes they're listening music in fast forward mode. I have two nieces, I've heard them and how do you even understand that, you know? But this is the generation of the future. So we really have to think how we keep all these, the vehicles of reaching them, the platform and the mindset and the psychology all has to be kept in mind when we market ears and, you know, people like you guys who are delivering that music platform, how do we deliver it to this new era altogether? And which to my mind is a long term. So yes, this is not the time to talk about music because yeah, this is not the right time but music can be used as a cause-based marketing tool as well as very rightly said, it's a healing tool for everyone. But we also have the time right now to think on those lines, you know, if we are not active in the market that way, we can still have the time to think which vehicle, how, where we are gonna customize. I think that'll be very important. Otherwise, the old strategies may not work for the future music fitment in my opinion. Yeah, as like my daughter tells the Gen Z as they are, right? They are queued from the time they are up and till the time they have gone to bed, the phones on and the ears are listening to music. Ramita, that leads me to another pertinent question. Like you said, keep an eye on the future but we also got a present consumer base, right? From a good old 78 year olds listening to the classics to what I would call the Gen X, Gen Y where we were born in, I mean, I see pick for myself and maybe one free and going forward the Gen Z, the teens. So as a brand custodian and I might even want to have Sir Lloyd, if you can step in as well as Vishwa from a marketing and a brand custodianship, what should a brand look at in terms of parking as a budget or a marketing span towards music? Do you, or do you do that when you do a marketing mix? Do you want to keep a certain spend on a pie towards music as a future strategy? Ramita, we could begin with you and we could go to Vishwa. I don't think it works that way. It always happens again, as I'm saying, why music? Like for example, if it is a brand like Bacardi or a Tugok where music is the brand platform, of course, a significant amount will be kept aside to promote that because that is your brand platform. If you're using music to promote, activate your brands or use experiential in different mediums of support, then it's a different strategy. If you want to involve your customers or consumers, then it's a different strategy. So I don't think it's about how much money because at the end of the day, it's a platform, it's a tool and how you reach out will depend how much budget you've allocated. For example, if you have sponsorship budget, if you have digital budget, if you have ATL budget, the budget allocation usually happens according to that, depending on what results you are taking out of that, which impacts your marketing PNL. So it is a subset of that. So you cannot just say how much budget. I don't think that's a relevant way of allocating budget. It is how important music is and how you're reaching on which tools are you using. If you're using digital platform, it might be much more cost effective and more measurable. If you're going through, you're doing a complete series of music on a national television or a television platform, it'll be very, very costly. So it depends on which tools you're using and that again will depend on what is your objective at the end of the day, which target audience, how much you want to and what are the results. So I don't think there's this particular answer to that question that X percentage of marketing budget can be allocated for music. It is completely, it's a function of a lot of factors. How are you using it, where are you using it and ultimately what's the objective and how it is impacting your marketing objectives or your brand objectives or even how it's impacting the results at the end of the day? I would agree. I was hoping you would say, a couple of billion dollars have been kept aside by your brand, you would all just post. Why not? If it's a very big organization and music is the key pillar, of course, marketing budget, a significant amount, as I'm saying, will go on the music only. And if it is a new brand, new launch, where it's not, the marketing budget is not much, then it'll be lesser. But at the end of the day, it's not like ATL, BTL and digital where you know that previously, for example, 10 years back or 12, 15 years back, the above the line and radio, television, spins used to be very high and experiential digital used to be very small. Now it is kind of not say reverse, but it is becoming more and more pie, it's sharing more and more pie of spins as experiential marketing. But those are tools. Music is a platform, like some brands use gastronomy, some brands use music, some brand use sports. So it is there everywhere in the marketing budget, in different forms. So it is not, you cannot measure that, how much on music, you can measure that. Of course, from your accounts, you can measure how much it has happened, but it'll also depend how many multi-platforms you have. If it is only music and 100% of your budget will go into music only in different ways. And if you have multiple platforms, then it's a percentage. How much you're pumping in music, how much you're pumping in sports and bigger organizations do have multiple platforms. Sometimes sports, music or even beverages or gastronomy, it could be different things. So, hopefully it's millions of dollars. I hope so too. We are hoping for that, yeah. We'll just cross it quick when you mentioned sports and something again, which was playing on the mind. I've been consuming Euro 2020, which I think globally is now being consumed by a lot of viewers. And strangely, I didn't find a anthem this time. I mean, normally World Cup or, so Vishwa, can a brand actually lead it on or does a creator come on and like a content creator? How does it work? And I'm bringing that question back to you as well, what I asked earlier with Ramita as well. Should a brand focus itself on, let me pass something into music or just wait for like it's a reactive mode? How does that, what is your thought on it? Look, first of all, I love to hear Ramita because the more she says, the more I get the content to work on. That's really amazing. Second thing is, as I think a lot of our discussion has been around whether music fits into the scheme of things of brands. My thought process is music should be used by brands and brands should understand how to use music to their advantage, music and musicians. Now these are two different 180 degree opposite ways of looking at things in my view. One is the way of looking, wherein you see that, okay, my brand strategy is this, whether music fits in. Second is music is a medium, which is very, very effective. How can I frame my brand strategy around it? So, you know, now each brand to its own and they have their own way of thinking and that's perfectly all right. My point is, has always been that music should be used by a brands and that comes to something that you said a certain amount of budget should be allocated to help that strategy also grow. Now what Ramita said earlier was also very important that we are in very uncertain times, wherein we don't even know what's gonna happen in the next two years. So everything has got to be planned in two manners. One is immediate short-term and one is prospective long-term and both have to go hand in hand. There's no second thoughts about it. So the good part is that there is a discussion around music and musicians and the platforms being used by brands to promote their products. Platforms is very important. For example, we have seen some platforms like us turning reserve music project. It is giving wonderful results. Now, if more platforms like this come like Bacardi uses its own platform. But again, we say that Bacardi uses music and they want to position themselves around it. Why did they do that? Because they found success. Can other brands find success there? Yes. Do other brands want to go there? Maybe, maybe not, but is there a potential there 100%? So the whole discussion to me should stay around how brands should start using music and musicians. The other way around is something that brands want to discuss whether music fits into their brand strategy. And that's the nature of this conflict and this conflict has to come to a certain agreement. I would say conflict, conflict, but you know what I mean. So there has to be, there is a gap which has to be understood and which has to be worked around. Now, you raised an interesting point that there was no anthem in this year's Euro 2020. Euro 2020, right? And it might be, I'm not sure. I've not heard, there's been no amplification. So if it is there, at least not heard about it. Look, I am possibly one of the odd ones out. I don't follow good ones. So don't get me wrong. I am not a football follower, but if it is the case and the way the question was also around the fact that whether anthems are being made by musicians pushing it with the brands or brands coming into, it's the other way around. It has, in my opinion of what I have seen and heard it's the other way around so far that brands want those anthems to be created to increase the reach, to increase the connect and to increase a bit of association with the whole. Like you said, a tune given to a certain brand gives a more connect with the product. So that has been the case and how it's gonna go ahead. I think it's gonna go ahead in a similar manner. The demand has to be there for product to be generated. If there's no demand, you can't keep pushing product over after a period of time. So it's basic for me. It's a basic commercial relationship, demand and supply. Demand is gonna be there, supply is gonna be there. The whole point is how much, now we are also in a content domain. We are not into a physical product selling domain where we can quantify everything and anything in terms of real numbers. What we can 100% quantify is the reach that we get through the, for the brand in itself, it could be through various mediums. Now that reach the brand gets is a product of a lot of marketing and strategy activities that they do when music becomes a part of it. How much music has a pie in that particular reach? That is a very debatable topic. We will possibly find it very difficult to come to a certain number. But we can estimate a certain, we can estimate that this is gonna be a particular impact. But to answer your question, I think it has to be a demand and supply largely wherein demand should create products rather than a push model. Push model doesn't work after a while but demand will also come in, brands realize that music has the power to increase their reach, their product sales, their brand presence, et cetera, et cetera. So that in nutshell is what something I think is the classic cash-to-end, the demand supply. And there's always a need for music that we all need music in our lives. And especially in times like this where we are at our absolute low, we need something to hold on to, whether it's spiritual music, whether it's, you know, melody music, something which pumps us up to kind of get up and move the next day. I guess we have five or 10 minutes before we kind of wrap this up. If I can just give five minutes, thank you. So I'll do a question to Manpreet and then maybe if somebody from the audience can want to ask something, Anisha, I'll give that cue to you. Manpreet, if you can just very quickly give me a, give us all an insight that Indian consumption versus your global consumption, you know, how has the brand spent been? Because I think you've done a many virtual interactions over the last two, three years where you've got a lot of international to an audience in, right? Do we have any insight into, from a global perspective, how have Indian brands spent versus a global spend? Do we have any thoughts on that? I'll give a little example of my own being at the marketer's table while I was in Kodaknagar Bank as a marketing head. We created properties around regional music, like Romain said earlier, that you need to give regional music as well. Brands, and I would again go back to the example of Coca-Cola where we used to have three teams called the Consumer Activation Department, which we used to have music, cricket, and movies. Now, music used to always be the intake for both international as well as national artists. Regional music is very critical. You would get every genre, every language of singers and musicians being consumed and be used to entertain and for brands to avail that kind of consumer activation with them. While we say that music doesn't have any language, we need a particular language to get into a particular market at every time. Every time a brand gets launched, whichever category, it would be automobile, telecom, FMCG, banking. 90% of all brands predominantly use music as a tool to enter into market with launch phases. That's the time when you actually get all flavors together. Whether it's an international market, whether it's India domestic market, you would have different consumers for different languages. While we still say that music doesn't have any language, it specifically needs a particular language to enter into the arts of the consumers. So, insight is very simple. Be specific, it's like think global, go local, and you would always need that language to get the connectivity faster both ways, digital or live. You are in mute, you are in mute, Shahjo. Thank you, thank you. I said, give me Punjabi music or give me Latino music. I can do any day. I mean, it's in some form, I would say there is a universal connect there, but yes, I will pick that point of view, Manpreet. I agree with Manpreet because a classic example of Tuborg Mild, which is for a little upper ACCT target audience, it was hip hop and EDM and foreign stars we got and sunburn. But when we were launching Tuborg Strong, we had to convince also the board out there in Denmark about the need for regional music and that it was different. It was in the Moitran in the North and then regional artists in Calcutta and Hyderabad and Bangalore because music is universal, but India has 29 countries within one country, radio and media, you have to be relevant also locally. Otherwise, the English speaking audience who consume English genre music is very minuscule compared to the target audience of Indian base. So I agree with Manpreet. It's a good starting point to enter, but depending on your brand and what does it stand for, where is your market? Which market or which state or where are you entering or which ACCT you're catering to, the strategy might change. The genre of music might change for sure. Otherwise, you'll become irrelevant. I would just add a point to that. I think the strong beer drinkers listening to EDM and hip hop, they will not understand. It's not like the final word from you. Just to add on to both what Manpreet and Ramita said, I think it's quite right. It's also that music is a very versatile platform. I've seen brands that use that December jam period in Chennai when the Karnataka Sabhas are strong. You don't do a lot of quality work that attracts a very discerning Chennai audience. Or in the sense, I think what Mahindra does with jazz and blues is a great example. You've got a very sharply defined audience that follow jazz and blues. And when you do a festival, you're attracting their audience. So there's a lot of versatility besides the fact that music has different genres. I think if you choose a right genre or a particular artist, you can in a sense compliment your brand message brilliantly because music gives you that versatility that few other platforms just want to add that way. Perfect, yeah. And then if you can- And I, yeah, sorry for the example, if you give me a minute. In a time when I was in Co-Document of 9, we were to launch Gold as a product. And we had to really go down to the T to understand which music and an actress would go well with all the five different states, with five different languages because each of the states have very, very strict and cult following of each actor or actress and somebody who could do music as well. So we finally came on to Shobna, a Bharath Nathim dancer and an actress who's also known a little bit in Hindi film industry with Nithya Pradesh where she did well. So that much deep you have to go to see that there's a connectivity with consumers all across all the markets where you have to spread and you also have to look at the budget. That's the boss's word. Yeah, absolutely. So essentially it's about zero in to a specific genre or an artist or the language. But then- Artist, language, assumption, everything. And the budget. I think that's what we're wishing for as content. That's where Lloyd is giving me a nod. The budget finally signed it off everything. So on that note, I think I'm not sure if we have time for any questions. Is it possible that I can take one question or we are up to it? Okay, I'm sorry. Anisha, I'm sorry if I kind of interrupted your Q in, but we'll take it offline, I guess. I'm sure you can write in questions for media and music king. But thank you so much. Thank you, Lloyd. Thank you, Vishwa. Thank you, Ramita. Thank you, Muruga. And thank you, Manpreet. It was a pleasure. I'm glad we could bring out some insights and thoughts into it. And going forward, it's going to be a wonderful life ahead for all of us there. Stay healthy. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Happy World Music Day to all of you. Thank you. I want to say thank you to our moderator chair, Saju. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you to all the speaker panel there, Manpreet, Ramita, Vishwa, Lloyd, and of course, Muruga. And Saju, there is an official anthem for you, Ruka, by the way, all being done with Martin Garrix and Bono along with The Edge. And that's called as We Are The People. Yeah. That's right. Yeah, I got that cue during it. And I'm hoping some Indian talent can also bring up our own little anthem as well as we consume further. I will write for you. I will write you, Saju. Just call me. Thank you again. You have a lovely day wishing you a very happy World Music Day. You guys have a great day. And wishing you a great... Thank you so much. Thank you.