 All right, it's great to be here with you all today who here is having a great so cap. I'll take that Well, it's great to be here with you all and Jim. It's great to get to spend some time with you It's great to be here. Yeah, awesome So for those of you that don't know Jim, there may be some of you out there Jim is truly one of the impact Pioneers who's been working in the space since well before the term impact investing was even coined He has led a very storied and varied career as an entrepreneur an investor an Innovator and philanthropist He's also a founder of sorenson impact group Which for more than two decades has been working to shine a light on the white spaces in impact investing and designing solutions to address them Yeah, all right You know, we're the last program where we are gonna try to give you a run for your money so What began as a foundation The sorenson impact foundation Has evolved to include an asset management business an advisory as well as the sorenson impact center Which is the fantastic host of this this conference For those of you that don't know the center it does a lot more than put on conferences In fact It has a very wide body of work And I kind of think of it as as creating the architecture that our industry needs to continue to grow in a Sustainable scalable and inclusive way and that includes, you know Very specific doing sophisticated research to design measurement tools and other tools that we all need The center works with other organizations helping them achieve their impact objectives And it also has which I think is really cool this Thanks to Jim a program that's been established with the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah where they have a student-run venture program a venture fund and They have programming that's designed to Mold and shape the next generation of impact leaders. In fact, are there any of those students here right now? There are speak up. All right. Well at any rate, it's a great bunch of students It's a really exciting program all of which is to say that Jim is an ideal person to be having a conversation with About where we're coming from as a new industry and where we are headed. So with that, let's let's get going So Jim it's been three years since we've been able to get together as a community here And lots happened in those three years Our industry has continued to grow We have certainly moved towards the main more towards the mainstream whether we're talking about Wall Street or Main Street and sort of, you know Being part of the popular conversation There is certainly more scrutiny of our sector more scrutiny of measurement increased calls for transparency There is far greater awareness now than there was on issues of equity and diversity and certainly the politicization of ESG which we'll talk about in a little bit so What are some of your thoughts About where we stand today as an industry versus where we were in 2019 the last time we all got together well Thank You David. I appreciate that introduction and I have to say that it's a tremendous honor for me to be here and to See so cap come back after three years You know with COVID and and the disruptions that we face So it's wonderful to see everybody and to be able to collaborate again like we are here at SoCAP I remember when I Embarked on this was before impact investing that term had been coined How nascent and and really I Know I'm known and and really not fully understood the impact investing space was and I remember the very bold Prediction that we'd reach a trillion dollars in assets under management in In impact investing and at that time I thought wow, that's from where we were that that seemed like a very bold prediction And I'm I'm really thrilled to see that you know It was announced at at Jim last week that impact investing has surpassed The trillion dollar mark were at about one point a little over 1.1 trillion dollars. Well, that's huge. Let's hear it That's amazing And so I think we've come a long way And yet I think there's we'd all agree that there's we're just kind of starting on this journey and When you look at the total, you know assets that are under management You know, we can do a lot more and we need to do a lot more in order to address the the challenges of our day and Really potentiate what impact investing can mean to solving those challenges Awesome. Thank you So let's turn to the ESG controversy. We had that rousing debate Very spirited debate that kicked off the conference. It was really fantastic and engaging I think it just kind of underscored the remarkable Velocity with which ESG has just permeated the the political and cultural divide in our country As a just a starting point to just shape the discussion What how do you think of the difference between ESG and impact because a lot of our time in part of our time And that debate was just talking about terminology. Yeah, well, and I think terminology is you know part of the reason for the the debate around ESG I think Terms are conflated and often misunderstood, but clearly in my mind there are distinctions and ESG plays an important role. It's it's really a strategy of corporations and investors to invest for not only the benefit of the shareholder, but also taking a look at You know benefits to the environment to employees to supply chains to communities to the stakeholders so to speak and If done right and over the long term it will provide Better returns for the shareholders and I I firmly believe that and I believe that that's that's what ESG is That's the premise behind it I think it's sometimes conflated with socially responsible investing Which is really more of a negative screen which? You know values or investors will decide I don't want to invest in It could be tobacco. It could be, you know companies that produce carbon and I think it can also be conflated with impact investing which really is investing in businesses whose Very business model or the theme of the business is addressing the social problem, but on you know in a way that Is scalable through a double bottom line that that is generated? And I think it's important to understand the distinctions, you know when we get into the discussions about about ESG so This may sound like a self-evident question, but We use a community at SoCAP most of us are focused on impact investing and not ESG Why are we spending so much time talking about this? Why should we be talking about this? Well, I think it again sometimes gets conflated and you'll hear the the term impact investing You know referring to to to SG. I think that you know, that's a part of it I think at the heart of impact investing we can address you know the the challenges that we're trying to to solve for in Sustainable or a ESG investing And you know, this is quite often why You know people misunderstand and conflate the terms that makes sense There are though, I believe some legitimate critiques of ESG What do you think some of those are? And I think they're legitimate concerns with impact investing I think prompt the most prominent one is you know the impact washing or greenwashing that that can be Employed by those that are trying to utilize an investor's interest but aren't really authentic and Don't deliver the results or that are promoting something that it really isn't and I think that's part of the The confusion and I think the controversy around ESG as Well as impact investing and it really points to the need for more accurate and authentic measurement and reporting of impact and calling out you know when you know something that may be promoted as an impact investment or Promoted as You know an ESG fund You know it's not really delivering on the results. I remember and I've had many that have approached me with investments, but one investment where Hotel was being built in in in Tanzania And it was a luxury hotel And they were looking for capital And it was presented to me as an impact investment and when you really drill down It really wasn't generating the impact that was purported And I think that we have to be careful about that as we Continue to promote and build this this field that it's authentic. I Think I think another problem is the proliferation Different frameworks and standards that have I think created confusion and They don't don't always align with one another and I think there's a real effort underway to try and harmonize the the ESG standards and frameworks so that there's less confusion in that regard Do you have any thoughts that clearly there is this is so cap as a very big tense and there are certainly Divergent views on this topic Do you have any thoughts on how we can all work together as an industry to? Address this controversy maybe correct it somehow How do you think we should do that well I Think that clearly the harmonization that I've talked about in terms of Reducing or eliminating confusion around measurement around reporting around standards is really an important one and Ultimately, hopefully will lead to You know better decisions as it relates to investors In in what these these products that are purported to be impact or ESG actually deliver I think that We Need to realize that this space is evolving It's relatively new it's not perfect and I think Dialing down the retic the rhetoric so to speak I think I believe that ESG is here to stay whether the nomenclature is It may may change but frankly If you look at the data if in my own personal experience my own investments The Those that have taken in the risk factors that are embodied in the ESG Have outperformed those that have not and the data is there to show that that is the case I think we also have real problems that we face that Will be taken or need to be taken into account in investment decisions. I mean I have made those in my own case I had a very interesting discussion with the state treasurer of Utah and as I explained some of these My own personal experience is he He he gave me a very interesting question. He said so do you believe in climate change and It told me a lot about where he was And I See the look on your face when you got that question. Yeah, I was a little astonished and I said yes And I I've had personal experience to where You know climate change has really affected You know me personally in terms of you know investments that I've made and With certainly some of the challenges we're facing in the state of Utah It's hard for me to to see why you why anyone wouldn't believe in In climate change and I think that The the issues that we're seeing with the climate and The changes that will be made to adapt to a climate that is changing will be increasingly undeniable and You know people that that are on the side of Them not they're not being climate change or it's a it's a temporary You know Conspiracy by science Are going to look pretty pretty pretty sad at some point time And I think that really the majority of investors are are here and to support ESG and sustainable investing the clock nomenclature may change I think the certainly the frameworks on how we measure them and Monitor them are going to improve But it's here to stay I Grew with you. I just want to say that I find your anecdote about your meeting quite sobering and You know gives a real window into what we need to do to Dress this there's we're facing some real headwinds. That's right. So I want to switch gears for a minute. So I'll let you all in on a little secret my buddy Jim here and does not really like to talk about himself, but I'm gonna try to I have to say that his story about His own journey to impact investing I find really inspiring. I think it might inspire some of you So Jim if you don't mind can you talk a little bit about What true you to impact and And why you've chosen to make it your life's work Yeah, I'm I'm gonna risk this. I mean I've told this story before so it may be old to some of you, but I'll risk telling it anyway because I think it is really at the heart of My discovery and I think why we're all here You know, I really came from the background Serial entrepreneur starting companies growing them investing in them ultimately selling them and Generating ultimately a return that for me. I think had been I would say a successful part of my my life and I Had a business that was focused on the mass market. It was a video conferencing technology and We were out to market to raise money on this this this business We were we had invested a lot in the technology and the dot-com bubble burst and everybody went away We had a term sheet. We were all set to go and No one was going to invest at that point in time everybody was afraid of The market and what was happening and I was sitting there faced with the company that was burning cash and Wondering, where do I go? With this at that point and it was at that juncture that a brother-in-law that I had hired who was deaf and I hired him because they had a hard time getting a job and I Wanted to see if there was an opportunity for our product in the deaf community. It was at that juncture That providentially he came to me with really a new service that was being trialed for the deaf and it was called video relay service and enabled the deaf to communicate with the hearing through a remote sign language interpreter Over the internet in real time and up to that point in time You know, it was all text-based and it was very unsatisfying and inefficient for the deaf and We had built really a solution that That made this experience so much better And we made the decision to pivot from the mass market to this very targeted underserved deaf community and that it was a remarkable financial success because it took off and We were competing against very large telcos and we took the market share and grew very rapidly and I could say it was probably the most successful Company in that it within less than three years. It was the largest private equity You know transaction up to that point in time in the state when when when I sold it But even more profound to me were the was the impact. I mean I Undeservedly was being referred to as the Alexander Graham bail of the death and I didn't really understand the impact that had And it was an aha moment because I realized that you could address a problem a very intractable problem in society in perhaps a much more scalable self-sustaining way through a for-profit business And at that point in time, I knew that that's really what I wanted to do I wanted to start giving back, but I wanted to do it in a way that could really move the needle and I felt like more was needed than just traditional philanthropy That we really needed to figure out how to engage much larger pools of capital and Focus on models that were Self-sustaining that can scale much beyond You know what you would typically otherwise be able to do and this was obviously before impact investing I looked at other sectors I went to to microfinance Next and and had the same experience and then it was all about how do I help build an ecosystem? to support this And that that led to the sorts and impact foundation the sorts and impact center and now what we're doing with the sorts and impact That's great. Thank you. You know when I when I hear you know, you didn't have the chance to go into a lot of detail but when I Think of your story, you know, one of the things that I always remark upon is your own personal commitment to Designing solutions and investments that are really promoting equity and diversity And I think it's all the more remarkable because you're doing it in a red state and you know It kind of undercuts this notion that somehow impact is this thing that you know Liberal elites are doing on the coasts, you know impact can happen anywhere. It can happen everywhere, right? No, I think the thing that I found David is that and I've been involved on the policy side Impact investing as it relates to policy is really bipartisan And that's great. We want to keep it that way Because you're addressing issues that are very near and dear to those on the left and You're doing it in a way that utilizes free enterprise And is sustainable and scalable That is not drawing from the tax base to do so per se In in a much more innovative fashion through impact investing and I found that to resonate You know in in on the hill well You know along those lines, I believe that One of the great I think you share this belief one of the great promises Impact investing is the ability to pay privilege forward And create opportunities for others and I know that that's a huge focus of The entire soreness and organization can you I know I want to be conscious of the time because I know everybody's anxious to go to the Party but but can you spend just a few minutes highlighting? I think some of the work that you're doing whether it's from the foundation or through investments to promote equity outcomes Sure, I think it's really interesting. I I think one of the things that we realize is that what we need or are more innovative and diverse funds fund managers and and products to invest in and there's a chicken and egg problem because You know a first-time investment if you're raising money is hard to come by and People want to invest in third-time funds fourth-time funds. They want to platforms only want to let These more established funds on the platform So how do you get on the platform if you can't get started? And I think that that's a role that we see the Swarks and Impact plane We're focused on a fund now that is addressing disability. We you know, I have a real Obviously connection with disability. There aren't any impact funds out there that are focused on disability I don't understand why I mean that's scratch your head 20% of Our population has some form of disability there's tremendous opportunity as it relates to investments and and the market for this and That's enabled ventures. That's an able and that's a you know It's a conversation that we as an impact community haven't even had you know, it's just kind of we've all skipped it So what we want to do is to be able to help really smart emerging fund managers to Bring them out of the shadows and into the mainstream and hopefully have a much more robust You know selection set for investors to invest For good and it takes really I think working with and thinking differently With new fund managers with new innovative collaborative Efforts to bring this to pass and that's that's really what we're focused on it the Swarks and Impact terrific In the remaining time As we look ahead to next year, you know, where do you see the industry going? Well, I'd say that we We reached a trillion we got about another 99 To go no, I I firmly believe that this will continue to grow we need to obviously work across Sectors and bring everybody in and engage this Continue to do what we're doing and and and build this space. I I firmly believe that And I when I when I thought of you know ten years ago getting to a trillion that that seemed to me Wow, that's that's a big dream Now we need to think much bigger than that. We need to continue I know that your organization is already thinking about soak up 23 any thoughts on a call to action for all of us as We look towards next year Yeah, I I would say this and I've heard this said in you know different ways and forms, but I think everybody here If they if they think about what they're passionate about Really what they're passionate about and then think about what they're really good at I mean what What expertise do they have? What are they really good at and then reach out to at least two people and find a way to collaborate and innovate While you're here That's how you make a difference in this space. That's a fantastic call to action. Thank you so much Thanks for spending time with us. Thanks to all of you for spending time with us and