 Hello, and welcome to Cooper Hewitt's virtual event. My name is Cristina de León, and I'm the Associate Curator of Latino Design here at the Museum. Today marks the U.S. premiere of Cooper Hewitt's first feature-length documentary, Mud Frontier, Architecture of the Borderlands. Tonight we'll be talking about the making of the project with Director Chris Cotier, and of course with the incredible stars of Mud Frontier, Ronno Torel, and Virginia San Fortello, the co-founders of the studio Reyes San Fortello, and our special guest, Mathias Reyes. We've partnered with the Architecture and Design Film Festival, which has made the documentary available today for free. I hope everyone has already had an opportunity to watch the film, but in the event that you haven't, we'll be putting a link in the chat where you can access it on the Architecture and Design Film Festival's website. I'd like to thank the Smithsonian Affiliations Program for collaborating with us on this event, and a special thank you to the Smithsonian Latino Center for supporting us on this project since day one. Before we begin our discussion, I want to let everyone know this program will feature closed captioning, which you can access by hitting the CC button on your Zoom toolbar. We welcome you to participate in the chat, as well as ask questions in the Q&A box, which we will dip into during the second half of our program, which will last about one hour. I'd like to start off by providing a bit of context on the origins of this project. In 2018, the studio's work was included in Cooper Hewitt's exhibition, The Senses, Design Beyond Vision, where these amazing 3D printed vessels made of cotton candy, curry powder, coffee grinds, and grape skins were on display. That same year, I invited Ronald to participate in a public program series called Desenio, where we invite contemporary US Latino designers to give a public talk about their work and also do a workshop focused on a material that they use in their practice. Ronald came with a 3D printer, and the idea was that over the course of a few hours, participants would use Potterware, the design application the studio developed for 3D printing ceramics to create their own vessels. Ronald started the workshop off by doing a test print to demonstrate how the application and the printer worked, but it didn't. There was a glitch and nothing was happening. He had to step out and make a phone call to figure out what was going wrong. He was sweating. We were sweating, but he resolved the program and everything started working. We all were just completely captivated and fascinated by this machine and this process of making. In the middle of the workshop, Ronald said, and I think it's because he was feeling really confident that everything was working at this point, he says, next summer we're going to 3D print an Adobe house in my ancestral home in southern Colorado. Chris was there and he leaned over to me and said, I wish we could film that project. And I thought to myself, well, yeah, why not? Why don't we try to do that? So with Ronald and Virginia's blessing, we began developing what at first was going to be a short documentary film about 20 minutes. And the idea was that it would really be materials and process focus. We were excited to follow Ronald and Virginia out in the field while they produce these experiments and also learn about the San Luis Valley. This area in the United States where Ronald is from, which has an incredibly rich and complex history that I felt wasn't widely known. And I would say that as soon as Chris and I arrived and saw this spectacular landscape and spent the day following Ron, touring his family's village of La Florida, we pretty much knew immediately that the story was going to be much bigger than we had anticipated. So Chris, I thought you could get the conversation going by having you share a bit about your experience with making this film. You've worked for Cooper Hewitt and the Smithsonian for many years producing short videos on a wide variety of topics. But I wonder if you could talk a bit about how this was different and maybe how you thought about the process in developing this story. Well, thank you very much, Christina. And thank you for everyone for joining. I'm really excited to show the film and talk about the project. But I'm just really excited to see Virginia, Matthias and Ron on screen and hear that they liked it. That made me really happy. So thanks. Thanks very much. So yeah, I've been working with Smithsonian for, as you said, Christina, seven this year, first in DC and then with Cooper Hewitt. And it's always been short videos for exhibitions or for Instagram or Facebook or little interviews or oral history type interviews and things like that. And I really love doing that kind of work. But I've been wanting to develop longer form films and feature length documentaries. So I sort of had a sneaking suspicion this would be like a nice longer piece. And I really like processed pieces and something that I have done a lot of. But when we got out to the St. Louis Valley and, as you mentioned, started to follow Ron on those first days around La Florida, like it just changed sort of my entire perspective on my job in some way, I think, just because it was the first time that we've really been invited to someone's home, to their deep sort of home space. And it could tell that it was a bigger project, not speaking just of the 3D printing of the vessels and the structures, but just the entire project that Ron, Virginia and their team have sort of been undertaking for many, many years. And that is sort of the connection to history, to place, to climate, to personal history, and of course to materials. And it was like learning about the deep history and the rich history with going back as far as some of the first European settlers in the area to the connection with the indigenous side of the past and the heritage that I really thought we can't just do a process piece because it just wouldn't be enough. It would be nice and it would be cool, but it wouldn't be the type of storytelling that I think we needed to do and try to, you know, to care for and sort of usher this story into life in a way that was more than just something that was going to be in an exhibition on the walls of Cooper Hewitt. And, you know, a lot of times those videos are really wonderful and, you know, also very process oriented and have some context and history. But, you know, we're hoping to, as an institution, broaden our reach and broaden the way that we're making stories. And I think that this was a really great way, a sort of first try or first attempt at doing a feature length. And, you know, we couldn't have done it without being so welcomed by you all and the family and the folks in La Florida. So I think that the collaboration, the collaborative spirit of, you know, realizing that we were not there to sort of just get one story and extract something and move on. But then we had, you know, care and depth and real interest in the people and the story and the place and the history, you know, combined with the generosity that Ron and Virginia and Matthias and everybody gave us. I think just, I mean, you couldn't have done it without, you know, that collaboration. So, yeah, I mean, we got there and it was so exciting. And it was, you know, one of the most exciting moments of my life. I think just being there and seeing it and realizing that we had, you know, we had the blessing to have this access and to have the opportunity to be there and the trust to tell the story. I wonder, this is something that you and I have talked a lot about, particularly once we got there and when we returned and afterwards and working on the editing of the film, the responsibility of telling this story, particularly as people coming from the outside. We were invited by Ronald and his family and, you know, obviously we became very close to everyone in the Florida and all of those that were in that orbit and in that community. But, you know, there's a certain type of responsibility that you have to take on in being someone that's not from that area telling that story. Yeah, I mean, I think that the first thing that comes to mind was I think our first trip there when Ron explained what this word means. And it's not like a word that we knew or heard of, but it's, you know, and he explains it in the film that it's kind of like Rascuache, but it really comes from, you know, the San Luis Valley and the culture and people there. And, you know, my first instinct was to sort of like look it up, you know, and try to figure it out like on Google. But really, it was being there and just seeing the work happen that sort of taught me the meaning of that phrase and sort of my assumptions of what it meant were, you know, the assumptions when I first heard it and compared to what I knew about it after I learned it were very different. And I think, and that was just because of Ron's mom, Christine, who, you know, her view of Trotimochi is very different than what I had thought it was. So that sort of little moment really taught me that I need to check myself and the need to really concentrate and think about all of the assumptions that I have about Southern Colorado, about the people, and try to be as open as possible to learning and to not have any kind of, or try not to at least have, you know, preconceived notions or at least be open about the ability to break those preconceived notions, I suppose. I think, you know, there is a responsibility in telling stories of folks that are, you know, from a perspective that is not your own. And I think that, you know, there's a practice of sharing and communicating that gets to show sort of the vulnerabilities on our side. And, you know, the act of being there and putting some labor in and showing that you're there to, that you're really caring, that you're really interested in, that you're asking deep questions, that you're spending the time. I think that you can go as far as you can with that in terms of earning the trust of the folks that you're with and sort of earning the trust from Ron and the family. And I think the other sort of side of that is asking people who are from there, you know, we met with four, five, five, six, I don't know how many dozen people that we met with while we were there that are from there that told their stories. And most of them didn't make it into the final cut of the film because, you know, and we only had an hour. But being there and learning from those people and spending time with those people, I think gives us a better sense of the community as a whole, and gives them a better sense of why we're there. And, you know, gives us sort of gives them the opportunity to see the vulnerabilities that we have and the care that we have as a way of sort of earning that trust and making that sort of a a relationship of equals that is, I think, really important to me in filmmaking. And I'm really don't, I really take a lot of care in trying to, you know, make sure that my point of view doesn't necessarily color or like, I guess I'm trying to say like, I'm trying to try to keep myself open. And that I, you know, I have a point of view that comes in and comes across, but I'm really eager to make sure that people understand that point of view and that we have a conversation about that. And so, yeah, you know, it's still kind of a, it's still kind of a touchy subject because, you know, there's still things that I don't understand about lots of lots of parts of the story. And so I hope that we did a good enough job. But yeah, I think the other part is is going back to the Smithsonian and asking the folks that we work with there and the experts that work at different units in the Smithsonian, and also asking different historians and teachers and other people who have knowledge and experience of the area to really make sure that we're, you know, that we're doing it justice. And Ronald, during our just going back to those first few days when we came to film, Virginia was still in the Bay Area and it was just you and Lagman Arja, who was your student at the time working with you on the project. It was very new as an every new endeavor. There are a lot of challenges at first. But the difference was that you had Chris and I following you around with a camera and capturing all your setbacks and frustrations. How did you feel about giving us that level of access and also allowing yourself to be vulnerable, not just with us, but with what was going to be a wider audience eventually? I think many designers love to share their success, but allowing the failures to be recorded and shared is something that is often a private process. And I think also to add to this scenario, we're following you in the place that you grew up, that you have this really deep connection to, which in many ways you were also rediscovering during this two year time period that's covered in the film. So could you talk a bit about what that experience was like for you? Thank you, Christina. Thank you, Chris. I just want to say thank you, Cooper Hewitt in general for following us around and capturing this very special time in our lives and even in history, I think. In the beginning, I think that it was unclear to me what it meant to be followed around by a camera all the time and being miked up all the time. And in that very beginning moment, I remember us having immediate success, like in those first moments, there was like it was happening, it was working. And we said, let's go do this. This is working. Why are we here in this shed? And we went outside, set it up, and then everything started to fail. And then I think I became very aware of what had meant to be followed around by a camera. And I think those frustrations that I would have normally in failure became compounded by the fact that this is being recorded and clearly this isn't working and wondering is this ever going to work. And even in that very first moment where there was a success, there was a lot of trial and error getting up to that point. And in the film, I tell my mom, 3D printing comes to La Floria. And then I go, wow. And that wow is like, oh my gosh, thank God, this is working. It's like a real moment of relief. So I think when I said it was successful, that was the moment. But then we went out and it just got really bad for a while. And I think eventually, though, I became more and more comfortable because we were having more and more success. And also I became more comfortable with Chris and you being there in that space and being not only an observer, but in many ways a participant in that in that space. And that was I think that was an important part of allowing myself to be vulnerable to this is that I felt like I was in good company that I could I could have that trust and be able to share this in a way that it wasn't adding to the pressure ultimately. Well, that's good to hear. You know, I'll say that like from my perspective, when when we decided to follow you and do this project, you know, I took this on within the same mindset that I would take on an exhibition in many ways, you know, we're going to develop the story, we're going to start with, you know, the beginning and think about process and materials. But something I think I came to realize very quickly is that when you are working with a designer or an artist or anyone on an exhibition, you're not there with them in the trenches when they're figuring things out. You're not watching them. You're not watching their every move. And, you know, there were many times where I know like Chris wanted to like jump in and help you and sometimes he did. But but many times we couldn't right like we couldn't just say like, let's give you a hand or like what's going on, how can we figure it out? Because we were there to observe you and and for me in particular, I thought that that experience I was I was really sort of taken aback by how much that experience impacted me as a curator, as a friend, because I think in this process we all became friends. And also, I think something that I really loved about the making of this whole film was the scrappiness of it all. I mean, you and Virginia were just you weren't precious about anything. You know, you didn't work in this pristine environment. You're working with this really sophisticated technology, but you're also using your hands. You're using material from, you know, the dirt essentially underneath our feet. And I thought that was a really important through line of the film that even though the two of you are are really creating this groundbreaking work with this very sophisticated software and technology, you're not afraid to get your hands dirty. You're not afraid to bring things outside, to experiment, to push yourselves to fail. And and also to make things that may be from the outset don't look like much. But I think what we see throughout the entire film is the way in which every step leads to the final leads to this like great reveal with Casa Covida and Virginia, something that I really loved about following you was the way in which you thought about the human interaction with the structures that, you know, we're not just being built outside, but also, you know, the 3d printed objects you were producing, you provided such insightful commentary on the materials and the technology and the way you took advantage of working in a variety of scales. You weren't just concerned with the outer structure, but it was the interior to it. And I thought this really came through particularly at the end with Casa Covida, when we see the whole interior completely finished with the bathing room, the hearth, bedroom, and with all, you know, your 3d 3d printed objects, many of which we saw you make throughout this time. You know, I look at that and it feels like a home. So can you share a little bit about working on this project and the way the materials and the history of this region impacted you? I think I've always been taken by this idea of making the total work of art, right, like everything. So it will be the architecture and the interior. It will be the textiles, the cups, you know, everything that you come in contact with, right, as a human and thinking about how we connect with those things sensorially, right. So it's not only that you're looking at something and hopefully it's beautiful and hopefully it brings you joy, but what does it feel like, like when you lean up against it, you know, and does that feel warm? Does it feel good and does it feel soft? And where does that material come from? And what does it mean to you? And does that history of the material or that provenance of the material or that story behind gathering the material give this object or this interior meaning and make it something that you cared deeply about, right? And there's a story behind it so you can bring other people into it. Like come into my world, let me tell you about this magical place, right, this place that has been occupied for thousands of years and there's so much to learn here and let me share it with you. And I can share it with you by talking about it, but here I can also put it in your hands, you know, you like touch these textiles and think about the sheep, right, that they're coming from. And there's another story, you know, the textiles are woven by a friend who's an Indigenous weaver. And so I think, you know, for me, I want to be enveloped in all of the pieces of the puzzle, right, so that it really wraps around you at every different scale. And, you know, like with Casa Comida, we wanted to create this story, right, this kind of a love story, right, where two people could quarantine together and have this kind of beautiful intimate relationship in this space and with each other, with the architecture, with the sky, with the ground, and it would be something that you smell, right, so we put, you know, these fragrant flowers in the bathtub, it would be something that feels good, like the smooth rocks underneath your feet, or the softness of the sheep skins. So I really want to capture those qualities in the space and through the materials and the objects that we make and design. Thanks, that's a great answer. So we're about halfway through, and I think I'm just going to open it up to a question here that we have in the chat. This is for both, for both of you, Virginia and Ronald, how would you describe the role of play in your work, thinking specifically about mud and failure? Did you say clay or play? Yeah. Play. Play. Which one? Play. Play. Play or varro? No, play, like jugar. Oh, jugar. Okay. You start. I always think of everything as a kind of serious play. I mean, the play is always there, because if it's not, then, you know, if it's not fun, then why do it, right, to some extent, right? Like, that's a really simple thought. But if it's play, if you're literally playing in the mud, or you're playing at the border, or you're playing as you cook, or as you design something and you're drawing, if it's playful, then, you know, there's a strong desire to do it, right, and to spend time doing it. But it's serious play, because it has consequences, right? It has consequences about the impact, like if you think about the impact that 3D printing mud might have on the future of building in the United States, right? I think it becomes suddenly very serious, right? And so, and we want that, you know, we want to have an effect and an impact. We want to change the way people think about play, the way they think about material, the way they think about people in their community. So these are very serious topics that we're addressing. So it's always there, play, but serious play. Yeah, I don't know if I can build too much upon that. I was just thinking about this moment in the film when we talk about what does it mean to step into a space of violence and disempower it, disempower that violence. And we do that by play in a very genuine way. But I think that it not only pertains to the border today and the wall, but even those spaces that we live in there in Conehouse County, and to be able to engage a world where, you know, it is one of the poorest counties in the state of Colorado and also the United States. And it has this very particular and complex history. But it doesn't mean that the people living in those places can't experience joy and fun. And I think that's been a big part of at least my own aspirations for working is that work can also be fun. And if it's not fun, then maybe we would have such an investment in it. And I also say there's another element of play, which I don't think we see so much in the film, but it's also Matthias' role in the project because he's also a collaborator. And I think in many ways, his participation is really speaks to this idea of what you said, Virginia, about serious play where, you know, he's playing around with the materials and he's exploring all of these things that you're doing, but he's also learning a lot. And he's also an active participant. There's this great scene that didn't make it into the film, which is Matthias is on this little go-kart. And he's shepherding these adobe blocks. And he just puts too many adobe blocks on the back of his go-kart. And he can't move. And we tried to think about ways in which we could incorporate this into the film and we did it. But I think it was really great to see the way in which Matthias was also an active participant in which he was playing, he was working, he was learning. And he was part of the process, just like all the other members of the team were as well. And so I think that's a part of the play that doesn't come off so much in the film, but was definitely present while we were there. So going on to another question. Your work during the film reminded me of Nader Khalili and Cow Earth, although the techniques are different. Do you have any interaction with what the people there are doing? We do not directly. I mean, I wrote a book back in 2008 about contemporary earth and architecture and he was someone who I wrote about. And I know a lot about him and I've certainly been inspired by much of his work. But no, I see what he was doing as actually very, very different in terms of the material, the technology, maybe where there's some overlap or the aspirations for the work. I think Khalili was definitely interested in beauty and elegance and history comes from Iran. So he has a history of understanding the material and its historical implications, a deep history of earth and building in Iran, and also the potential use of that material in applications related to housing and access. I think that's where there is some overlap there, but no, not directly in any way. And just, I think I'll follow up with another question here. And this says I've been reading a bit about West Africa and Adobe architecture and the annual slash regular upkeep of the exterior from the community that's necessary. Have you found so far that there is an upkeep needed for your 3D printed mud structures? Well, all mud structures need maintenance just like all wood structures and all concrete structures. They all need some kind of upkeep and maintenance. They're just particular, some buildings you paint, some buildings you stucco, and so earthen buildings will need maintenance. In the valley there, rainfall is only nine inches per year. And so with very little rainfall and very good material that we developed that's really just coming out of the ground and we sifted in a certain way, it is really durable. And so we're now in our third year of some of those structures and they show very little wear and weathering with rain falling right on them. But we do intend to to recode them and surface them sometime in the future and that would just mean you take the same dirt from the from the landscape and we rub it on to the building and just like you would a kind of natural coating and that if as long as we can maintain that practice, we can keep those buildings there forever. And this is a comment slash question that I can answer. Where's the documentary available beyond today? So we will make the documentary available for free on Cooper Hewitt's website sometime early next year. And as a participant of this program, you'll likely get an update saying if you want to see the film again, you can. This person, Bilal Baca, also says I want to share, he'd like to share this with their Borderlands family in New Mexico. I'm 78 years old and made Adobe Bricks when I was young. My grandpa like Ronald's father was an Adobe contractor. The documentary had me in tears. Thank you. Thanks. Okay. Next question. Matias, are you up for answering a question? There's one here for you. Oh, sure. I'll turn my best. Okay. Matias, what do you think of these structures? What do they mean to you? Um, well, I think they're pretty cool. I like them. And they're pretty important to me because, you know, my parents made them. And I made a little bit of some of them. So, you'd answer. And Chris, maybe you might be able to answer this question. Have you thought about the ways the film could fit with anthropology courses? I audited such a course two years ago, and this effort fits right in. I guess maybe a question for you is, have you thought about the ways in which the film can be used outside of the museum's context? Yeah. Yeah. I think so. A part of the process of, in the pre-production phase, you have to sort of answer the question, who is the audience? And I think that's something that we talked about early on and it's something that I talk about with every video that I make, you know, because it really does inform the way that you're going to make the film. And so for us, when we asked ourselves the question, who's the audience? I mean, of course, we had this audience in mind, you know, folks that are interested in these kinds of topics and architecture design, interested in stories from the museum. And I think for me, you know, I studied anthropology and sociology and undergrad. And so I always have sort of an eye for that part of the story. And I'm really interested in those, in anthropology and the histories of people. So when we learned of some of the story of sort of the legacy of the folks that live in the St. Louis Valley, I immediately thought this is a really interesting anthropology story. This is an interesting sort of ethnographical look at, you know, people that are living, you know, today and sort of where they came from and how they got there. And so, yeah, definitely I'm thinking about how can we share this. And I think that's, you know, when we discovered that part of the story, I think that's why it was insistent on that we put it in. I mean, we were both sort of really odd and inspired and excited to tell a story that, you know, doesn't get a lot of attention. So, you know, as a design museum, we have a sort of, you know, particular interest in the design story. But, you know, the design museum and design stories also have people behind them and also have history behind them and also have anthropology behind them. And I think to tell a more complete story, you know, we have to go beyond just sort of the design of something. And I think, yeah, the hope is that, you know, when we answered the question, who is the audience, the hope was also, you know, students in high school and college. I showed a version of this film to a friend of mine's kids who are seven years old, 10 years old and 15 years old, and they all loved it for different reasons. And, you know, I think that there's parts of the story that are going to resonate with different people in different ways. And the sort of anthropological side, the ethnographic side, I really hope is, you know, sort of true to the word and true to people's experiences and also, you know, edifying for people who don't know anything about the topic. I can add a little bit to that also, maybe, which is, for the first time ever next semester, I'm teaching anthropology course, and I'm co-teaching it with a contemporary artist, who's a professor, Stephanie Sihuko, and an archaeologist, Junson Serre. Jun studies mudbrick ovens, what we call them, ornos, and he studies them in New Mexico, but he's a professor here at Berkeley. And Stephanie, as an artist, looks at indigenous and colonial food practices and the foods themselves and growing them. And myself as someone who knows about earth, we're coming together to teach a course that can be taken by anybody at the University here at Berkeley. And it's based in anthropology, in the Department of Anthropology, but it's much more expansive in that we are looking at many of the things we do in La Florida, which is we look at contemporary art and design, we look at indigenous and traditional colonial food practices and traditions, and we try to uncover the history and new archaeology of that past. And so I hope to show this film to my students as well. We have a question here around the structures. The structures of the walls look like woven baskets. Was that chosen because it's a stronger structure or for the aesthetics of it or both? Yes. So there's a kind of crenellation or a looping in the geometry of the structure. And that does give it an increased strength, as opposed to just making kind of a flat or a straight line. You know, we have more surface area on the ground. And so we have been experimenting with different patterns, maybe, to see what is stronger or what is the most minimum amount of material that you could print with. In some cases, like in the Cossack Covita, there's two walls with two different kind of sine wave patterns. One is double the frequency of the other. And one supports the other. So one goes up more straight and the exterior it curves in. So the interior one supports the exterior one. So we are working with those loops and sine waves and crenellations to explore the strength of the material in addition to the kind of textural qualities as well. I mean, we're very interested in the kind of patterning opportunities that could emerge from using that technique as well. Yeah, the building really looks like rope. It looks like a textile when you're up close. And that's something that we noticed in the clay techniques that we've been using for about 70 years now, where it feels like we're weaving clay rather than simply depositing it. And Virginia is right in that these kind of corrugations, I have a little piece of paper here, but if you have something flat and straight, it just wants to flop. But if you put a slight bend on it, it could be quite rigid. And that's the principle behind the walls. And so in the film when we're laying the sticks of Juniper through the two walls, it's because we hadn't felt that we had corrugated the material enough, gave it a kind of curve. And so it was fairly straight, and we were worried that it was going to collapse. And so we placed the sticks to tie the two walls together so that it would have a greater structure. But really the solution ultimately was to have this frequency of the curve to maintain its strength in this very thin bead of clay. And just continuing on this discussion regarding the walls, there's also a question here around, I guess, asking what are, if there were any patterns local to the area that were generative and culturally nourishing for the shapes that you all created? I guess another part of that question could be how, you know, there's a lot of adobe structures in this region, and there's a lot of different types of earthen structures and objects. And I think it'd be interesting for the TV to talk a bit about the way in which those traditions informed your work, but also the way in which you kind of go your own way and create something new and different. Go ahead. Well, just to be really transparent, I mean, we're trying to demonstrate that we can print big, and we have a printer that spins around itself. So the maximum it can print is a circular form. And so this is essentially why we're printing circular forms, because we want to maximize what the printer can print in terms of size. And well, I don't personally feel like there was a lot of formal qualities that were inspiring the work. There is something about that landscape, which is an incredibly flat plain surrounded by mountains in which objects have a kind of very pronounced role in that landscape. And there is an agricultural tradition that's much more recent. And there are an enormous number of silos there for grain. And those silos are prominent beacons in the landscape. And I think in upon reflection and even immediate reflection after we made them, we see some of those take on this idea of silos. And some of my neighbors were like, are you going to start growing some wheat or something over there? Are you building some silos? But so they have that kind of prominence as objects. And then the textures themselves, I mean, we have been exploring textures for a long time that are more related to the way that a robot might place clay and the kind of patterns. And they're very mathematical, but they're also very sensuous. And so I think at some point, we might be able to make those connections to things that are in the landscape, but it's not necessarily driving the work right now. I think what's driving the work is a lot of research that we put in behind it over the years. And I don't know, perhaps in the future, I mean, even thinking about it, it's not a landscape full of ornament. And so it's difficult to maybe imagine what kind of cultural ornaments might be attached, but it might also not be something we're generally interested in. Yeah, I think about even the smaller pieces like the ceramics. I mean, we make beanpots because that's the traditional food way there. But the texture and the pattern on the pot is really in response to the opportunities provided by the software and the limitations offered by the hardware. And so that's really informing that decorative pattern on the surface. Yeah. We have an interesting question here that just came in. It says, at one point in the documentary when the machine was experiencing a hiccup, you mentioned that you could easily get VC to fund a new machine or to repair the one you were using at that point, if I remember correctly. This made me wonder to what extent financial autonomy might be important to your work? Yeah, as I was watching the film just today, that thought resonated with me. I thought, oh, it's not actually not so easy just to go and get money. I think the point of that comment was like, what's important to this work? And why are we doing this? And it's not to make a 3D printing startup company necessarily that is printing buildings all over the world for profit. But there's just, I think as Virginia said, we're doing this for purposes of invention and storytelling and building new knowledge. And so I think there's, you never know what you say when somebody follows you around with a camera. But I had thought about what that like, why did I say that? I wish it was easy to just go and get some VC money. But we have been generously supported often in this research from fellowships at the university, to private donors who have funded this research, we've been very excited about what we're doing to museums. And so we're grateful for that. And we're grateful that there is a perceived cultural value in this work. And I think that is what's most exciting to us that there is that value that's shared by many people who are just excited to see this work continue. And following up with that last comment, we have two questions here, which I'll sort of blend together. But essentially, both questions are asking, what is your vision for the future of mud architecture? What type of experiments do you have upcoming? What are the goals for these structures? Could this be part of solving the housing shortage? That's always, that's always a question. Is this going to solve the housing shortage? I, you know, it's, it's certainly every architect in the world would love to say, I solved the housing shortage. So the answer to that is, we don't know, but, but what I do know is that it is, like, if we think about the most earth friendly material on the planet, it's birth. And it's very available and ubiquitous. And there's interesting challenges to think about how traditions of earth have transformed, building traditions of earth have transformed over time doing, due to the way that people work in the world and people move from agrarian societies to capitalist societies, they don't tend to their houses in the same way that they did. And so I do wonder about how technology might allow us to reenter into a conversation about building buildings out of earth in the 21st century. If you remember, in the 40th anniversary of Smithsonian magazine, they listed the 40 most important things you should know about the next 40 years. And the number one thing on that list by Smithsonian magazine was that sophisticated buildings of the future will be made of mud. And so I think that we would like to participate in helping that come to fruition. Well said. Okay, we have a few minutes left. So I'll try to get through some of these questions. There's a question around temperature and the way in which the structures react to different temperatures. And I guess this is a question that that can also extend not just to the structures but also to the 3D printed ceramic objects. How do those react to temperatures indoors and outdoors too? So the ceramic objects, the small objects, the cookware that we're printing has mica in it and that mica helps absorb the thermal shock of, let's say, putting this in an oven or on a stove top or on an open fire. So that material is very stable. So we can take one of those 3D printed ceramic tajins or bean pots, put it on that open fire, cook in it and it won't explode, which is one of the reasons that this material has been so successful for thousands of years in these communities. And it's something that we had to learn or at least I had to learn because I'm new to this land. But I'm happy to share that through my own experience. The first time I made something and put it on the stove, I was actually suspicious. I was like, oh no, this is going to break. But it didn't. And so I was pleasantly surprised by that. I was just going to say that you use these objects. Like you cook with them. I mean, I love for you to just talk a little bit about the ways in which you live with them. We cook with them. Going back to this notion of the senses, this material imparts flavor into the food that you cook in these dishes. So you're getting that flavor of the clay into your beans or your lamb stew. And so again, it's just another layer of experiencing this material through a different sense. So I cook with them. I make these stew beans. Ron makes a tolle. Maybe he can tell you about his tolle. Yeah, a tolle is a traditional, mostly for breakfast, but it's made out of ground blue corn. And it can be made sweet or savory. And yeah, you can cook so many things in these dishes. And at the bigger scale, at the larger scale, earthen materials are used on every continent, except for one, of course, and in very different climates from very humid and hot climates and very cold climates like in the San Luis Valley. And they just adapt in different ways. Sometimes they're thinner, sometimes they're thicker. But the beauty of the material is in hot, humid climates, it has the ability to absorb the humidity and moderate the humidity in a very cold climate like ours. It has the ability to serve as a thermal mass. So the mass of earth stores the warmth of the sun and radiates it slowly into the building. And also in the inverse, it can hold the cool of the night and keep temperatures in the inside very comfortable and cool on a hot day. But we're exploring other possibilities, which is that you might have seen a print scene that was shown several times, you see a very airy series of sine waves that are being printed with lots of air pockets in it. Well, insulation is fundamentally air. And so these cavities are insulated in that there is a like a lack of heat transfer from the outside to the inside or lack of cool transfer based on how it's built. But also those air cavities can be filled with a higher value insulation. And so they can be more insulated if we put something in them. And that could be a natural material. Also wool, for example, is used as natural insulation. And there's other kinds. But I think there's some really interesting innovations that are yet to be discovered in making these kinds of buildings and thinking about their performance in different kinds of climates. So we have a question. That's funny because there's also a question for you, Matias. So maybe you can close this out. You can ask one question and then I'll ask you a question. Okay, what content isn't certain? Take a guess what content that doesn't anybody live on? What? Oh, right. Yeah, I forgot. Yeah, there are no earth buildings on Antarctica. I forgot about that one. Okay. And so this is a question for you. Would appreciate hearing from Matias how he sees his own relationship to the family's land and roots in La Florida and what he thinks about its future. Well, what do you think about your connection to La Florida? Well, I mean, you come from there. So I'm pretty closely related to it. So that's, you know, it's like another home. And what do you think about its future? What do you hope? What is your hope for the future for La Florida? That more buildings of earth start to pop up in places? I don't know. There's going to be a whole, like, village, right? That means more sifting earth. There's that there's that scene in the film where Virginia says he feels very free out here and I'm looking down I'm not watching and he's just whacked and I've gotten better. That was like three years I'm sure you're a pro now. Well, thank you to everyone who joined us today. Many thanks to Ron, Virginia, Matias, and of course, my dear colleague, Chris. This was one of the most fulfilling projects I've ever worked on. Thank you for taking this on. Thank you for letting us into your lives. And also a big thank you to the community of the San Luis Valley of Conejos County, who led us in, who talked to us, who made us feel like friends, like family. It's something that I will keep with me for a really, really long time. I can't wait to go back. I can't wait for us to share this film with them really soon. So thank you all and please look back at the Cooper Hewitt website because we'll actually be adding additional educational content about the film over the course of the next few months. So please keep coming back to Cooper Hewitt's website and checking out the new content that we post there about the film. Thanks, y'all. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. You're welcome back to La Florida any time. Thank you so much, Christina, for your efforts throughout the entire project and especially through the