 Hi everybody. Welcome to today's webinar. Hopefully you can hear me and see me okay. We're going to make a start now. My name is Juliette and I'm IID's events officer. So welcome to today's session. We're really excited about this webinar on nature-based solutions for climate change. Just so you're aware this event forms part of the IID debate series in which we are trying to create a space for conversation and debate on key and current sustainable development issues. So welcome and we've got an excellent panel of speakers today who are going to be introduced shortly. So with that I'm going to hand over to Xiaoting who's going to introduce the session and our speakers for today. Thanks very much. Thanks very much Juliette. I'm Xiaoting Hou Jones a senior researcher at IID. Thanks so much for joining us today on this very special day. As you all know today's international day for biological diversity and this year's theme is our solutions in nature. So under this special theme we hope to use this webinar to explore with all of you how we can work with nature to tackle the dual crisis of biodiversity loss and climate change. The term nature-based solution for climate change acknowledges the interdependency between people and the nature and the need for us to seek integrated solutions to the interlinked global challenges of biodiversity loss and climate change. It is indeed a very bottom as well. It covers the diversity of ways that we can work with nature. We can work with nature to mitigate climate change. For example forest unnatural carbon sinks and we can also work with nature to adapt to climate change. For example agro biodiversity can help improve resilience of our food production system. Mangroves and reefs can buffer coastal storm surges and absorb flood water. It's great to see so many people joining us today for all over the world. The students and ambassadors that people working on the ground helping communities, various NGOs and I'm sure a lot of you probably are working with nature in very different ways and they may have very different perceptions of what nature-based solutions for climate change are. So before we start our discussion today we would like to know a little bit about all of you by running a quick polling with you. So as Juliet mentioned go to another screen if you have one and go to www.mentimeter.com and enter the code 439473. There you can use up to three words to describe what nature-based solution for climate change means to you. We will have two minutes for all the participants to do this polling. I think our pause here is great to see so many people join us to give your ideas on what this nature-based solution for climate change means to you. There's such a big water cloud that definitely signifies and shows the case of the diversity of ways we can work with nature really well. I do like to highlight that it's great to see the keywords being resilience, biodiversity, sustainability and adaptation that comes up quite strongly including people, how we can actually ensure that nature-based solutions work for people, increase the resilience of the society and also help us promote sustainability. And this are some of the topics the speakers and all of us hopefully will explore today. And I think this also illustrates why if we in the last year nature-based solution has been embraced globally by NGOs, governments and the private sector with many big commitments made in the last year including various commitments announced this week for example the new EU 10-year biodiversity plan. But today we really want to discuss with all of you how can we translate those global ambitions and commitment into local actions. We're hoping to run this online discussion as interactively as possible so as you see we will keep on running some of the pullings and so out of the webinar we also welcome you to all share your views and we would especially love to hear any concrete examples from all of you on how do you think we can translate the global ambitions for a nature-based solution into actions and how we can also work with nature to move us from business as usual and deliver a change we need urgently at scale to address climate change. So please feel free to keep using the chat box to share with everyone on your views and especially any examples that how you're working with nature to address biodiversity loss and climate change. Also we have four distinguished speaker today representing government private sector and community members to help us kickstack the discussion focusing on these two questions those two questions you've seen on the screen before. As you listen to the speakers again please feel free to give examples share your views as well so that's enough for me now I would like to introduce the first two speakers from UK department for environment food and rural affairs to give a joint presentation. The two speakers are Alex White and Sarah Nelson. Alex is the team leader for international climate and strategy within the international strategy and overseas development assistance division. Sarah is a head of policy oversight in the international environmental conventions team and she's leading the nature package for the UNCCC COP26 for the UK government. So over to you Alex and Sarah. Okay fantastic okay thank you for that introduction I know that these are excellent sort of panels I'll let everyone reserve judgment on me until the end of the presentation on excellent and distinguished but thanks for everyone for spending time this afternoon to listen to some of our thoughts. I'm just going to run through a couple of scene setting slides setting out some of the context that we are looking at in sort of thinking about policy for nature-based solutions international policy. I think the first thing we're going to look at is the sort of overview and context and the sort of multiple pressures on the natural world ecosystems that that we're currently facing. So in the past 50 years doubling of the human population global economic output has grown by nearly four times and global trade has grown by 10 times. This is actually driving up the demand for energy materials that are provided by nature. At the same time global temperatures are increasing sea level is rising we are feeling the effects of climate change and we are experiencing accelerating global species extinction. The way I would kind of sort of encapsulate this is that the demand is increasing but the supply is decreasing and I think it's interesting looking at the recent descriptor review interim report which underpins the role of nature as an asset and highlighted that we are again failing to manage these assets effectively. So it's against this backdrop that we need to develop approaches that reflects a complexity and scale this challenge and work for climate nature and people. So nature-based solutions are part of that solution. Some of the evidence is telling us that solutions provide it to a third of cost-effective CO2 mitigation by 2030 but that is important to recognize that H-based solutions offer a part of the solution but not all. We need to ensure that we are still decarbonizing to make sure that we meet the Paris pathways. If NB is delivered appropriately it could deliver a range of co-benefits that can address some of these multiple challenges. So climate change adaptation and mitigation, development and livelihoods and as well as the biodiversity loss. So in thinking about how we deliver for climate nature and people we need to determine what the barriers are for delivery of effective nature-based solutions. We have basically done some analysis that has kind of characterized five different areas of barriers. The first is around evidence and this is around the NBS evidence base. Also what works, what doesn't. How can we effectively deliver NBS? The second is around political will, galvanizing governments and businesses and others to make the changes that are needed to tackle the scale of the challenges. Three around markets, governance and religion and regulation. This is really recognizing that NBS implementation spans multiple landscapes crossing jurisdictional boundaries and that approaches to date have already captured the multi-sectoral and multi-dimensional nature of nature-based solutions. So how do we work across ministries breaking down the silo between climate, biodiversity and people to deliver these solutions effectively? Barrier four is around technical capacity and skills. There's lots of good learning out there that needs to be shared and we're really interested to hear from the audience and panelists about experience on nature-based solutions and finally around finance. We recognize that the great potential of nature-based solutions for the finance that's being directed towards it is very minimal. So how do we rebalance that sort of investment scale? I'll hand over to Sarah now. Thanks Alex and great to see so many people here today online and from all over the world. So that's really nice to hear. So this year was due to be a big year for biodiversity, a so-called super year with both CBD COP 15, the IUCN World Conservation Congress and UNF triple C COP 26 amongst other key events for biodiversity and climate change. Now unfortunately due to COVID-19 all of these have been postponed but we're still really hopeful that over the next 12 to 18 months we'll provide a key moment for both biodiversity and climate change and looking at our COP in terms of COP 26 nature will be a key focus for that and we hope that it will build on a successful CBD COP 15 that will take place in China. The UK G7 presidency and the Italian G20 presidency will also be additional moments over the next 12 to 18 months to drive forward action on these issues and they will all propel us into the next decade which will be a UN decade on ecosystem restoration. So as I mentioned nature will be a key theme for COP 26 with the UK Prime Minister describing the climate crisis and the biodiversity crisis as two sides of the same coin, recognising to achieve success on either you need to tackle both of these issues simultaneously. The key headlines for our nature COP 26 campaign will include the following. Firstly, greening our supply chains. So this campaign will aim to work with producer and consumer countries to minimise deforestation within supply chains. The key commodities such as palm oil, cocoa and soy. The second campaign will focus around nature finance and that will have three different strands to it. There'll be a public sector strand where we will be working with other donor countries to raise contributions to nature based solutions and also where we will work with developing countries to help them build a pipeline of high quality MBS projects. There will also be a private sector component where we'll work with private sector to galvanise action on biodiversity finance and we will also be working with the multilateral development banks to help mainstream nature across their operations. The third strand of our work will be building on the just rural transition initiative which was launched at the UN climate action summit last year which aims to build resilient and sustainable agriculture and food systems. And we will also be championing marine nature based solutions through our work on, for example, marine protected areas, our 30 by 30 campaign and the Global Ocean Alliance. And finally, we will be working to build on the MBS manifesto which was also launched at the UN climate action summit last year to develop a nature action pledge. And the aim of this pledge will be to work with high ambition countries to commit to concrete actions on climate change and biodiversity to promote a clear bridge between the climate and biodiversity conventions. Thank you. Thanks Sarah and Alex. Thanks Alex for reminding us that nature based solution is one of the important solutions and highlighting some of the challenges. I think we'll hear from the next two speakers on how do we respond to some of the challenges. Again, we welcome all of you to share in the chat box if you have any reflections on those challenges as well. And it's great, Sarah, you gave some really good examples on how UK government is taking an active leadership role in addressing some of the challenges including increasing political wealth and looking for building more finance that flow to the local level. And with that, I think it would be great if we can also hear from our next speaker, Chip Cungliff. Chip represents the AXA XL, a multinational insurance company. He's the sustainable development director and he established and managed AXA XL's Ocean Risk Initiative. And he will offer some perspective from the private sector and talk us through with some of the innovative financing products that they are promoting. Over to you, Chip. Thanks, Geraldine. Very much indeed. And good morning, afternoon, and evening to everybody online. So I want to just talk through this from a coastal resilience standpoint, which might be slightly different to what others have focused on previously. I know that it was really the first time the issue was integrated into climate change negotiations. But of course, it's absolutely integral to understanding how the ocean drives change, especially related to climates around the world. We know the oceans warming will impact increase in sea level rise, likely increase in intensive storms as the century moves on, therefore having greater implications for storm surges, coastal erosion, inundation, of course, human health and food security as well. And given that, we know that there's a calculation that up to 800 million people will be at risk from coastal flooding from storm surges by 2008. The small island developing states and the least developed countries are those likely to be most affected. But it's unlikely that the insurers and indeed taxpayers will be able to bear these costs in the future for too much longer. So we also know that real infrastructure has been really a go to for those that can afford it or for those countries that can afford it. But of course, it's also less cost effective and often harms biodiversity and the natural systems that it's protected against as well. So I think it's absolutely right that nature-based solutions are being recognized and increasingly promoted, yet they are still often overlooked or underappreciated in policy decisions, investment and indeed in risk management frameworks as well. And being from the insurance industry at AXA, that focus on risk is key for us. Reefs, mangroves, seagrass beds, storm marshes and other coastal ecosystems not only provide coastal protection, of course, but also other co-benefits as well to coastal communities, to economies through building ecological and social resilience as well as sustaining biodiversity. We know, you know, reefs dissipate up to 90%, 7% of wave energy. Mangroves, 100 meters of mangroves dissipate between 15% and 100% of course, as well. And so you're not only reducing annual flooding and that to about 18 million people around the world every year, but also decreasing flood damage risk as well and the likelihood of that without those, that nature is about $82 billion as well. But going back to the questions, how do we translate global ambitions into internet-based solutions and actions? Well, I think this is exactly sort of the forum that's starting to build the narrative and I think it's about developing that narrative itself. But I think the one thing that cuts through everything else is about money and putting a dollar figure on it. So I think that highlighting the economic or socio-economic importance of natural capital, which obviously nature is the link to the dual benefits of climate change targets and biodiversity is crucial as well. Now, the UN has called on the finance and insurance industries to help reduce exposure and vulnerability of coastal communities and ecosystems as well, but it can't be left to just one part of the global economy. It needs to invest from a combination of private government, philanthropic and development finance. And so the use of these blended finance tools, including insurance, at the moment are pretty under leveraged. And I suppose the other sort of coin is that we also know that there's a private capital available if investments into resilience, so basic needs-based solutions, can generate a suggestible return. But of course, as this slide shows here, there are significant barriers to investment in natural capital from a lack of understanding and how they can provide a timely return to that limited pipeline. You can probably count the number of projects on the fingers of two hands. Insufficient data and modelling, of course, and the enabling policies to shift investment away from unsustainable infrastructure too. So I think there's sort of real work to be done to lower those barriers. I wanted to sort of outline one example of what's been happening in this space, and this is the launch of the Ocean Risk and Resilience Action Alliance last year at the UN Climate Action Summit as well. And it's been backed by all G7 countries, and it's really a multi-sectoral collaboration designed to drive $500 million worth of investment into natural-based solutions on the coast by 2030. But alongside that, it's about developing further research that will help underpin the natural-based solutions argument, and I think importantly, help to inform policy at all different levels as well. Canada has put up the first transition funding for this, and that funding is being used not only to build the secretariat of AURA, but also to develop some pilot projects as well. And in the next minutes or so, I just want to highlight a couple of the products that are being focused on. So Blue Carbon is one, so mangroves, as we know, provide a multitude of benefits, cut of protection, filtering pollution, carbon sequestration as well, and very importantly too. And we know that restoration and protection of tidal wetlands are eligible for voluntary carbon offsets. And so Nature Conservancy and indeed one of the projects that my company is driving ahead is development of pilot studies in Virginia and Belize. But we're also developing a resilience credit alongside that carbon credit, so where companies can invest in restoration and protection to limit risk from storm surges and flooding. We're also focusing, AURA is also focusing on potentially development of a corporate bond, where corporates borrow money to manage and maintain natural capital surrounding their property, having a positive impact on local communities, biodiversity, and of course indeed the tourism sector as well. From an insurance and risk perspective, we're starting to start looking at explicitly integrating natural capital into our risk models, so we can actually accurately price risk and support risk management solutions. And those different products include parametric insurance products, which trigger when a certain parameter is reached. And so the idea of working on coral reef and mangrove insurance products is starting to pay out, or starting to move forward or pay out to this stage. So just to wrap up, I mean the projects and products at the moment are very much in their pilot phases and I think it's really crucial that we are able to move these to scale as quickly as possible, but we can only do that with investment into that space. And I think it's very key that we start building the right narrative to engage those possible investors and of course to try and drive down those barriers that I mentioned before. Thank you very much. Thanks Chair, and thanks for laying out some of the barriers to access finance for nature-based solutions, especially taking us to the coastal ecosystem. And it's very interesting to hear some of the new insurance products that may help us leverage the blended finance between government, private sector and the financial piece. But I think we also, for all of us who work in the field in developing countries, there's another very important investor we shouldn't really forget, that's the local communities. And we've seen all the world that local communities are investing themselves to adapt to climate change, for example, in using or leading, championing some of the innovative ways to work with nature to adapt or mitigate climate change. So with that, I want to introduce our last but also very exciting speaker from all the way from Zambia to take us from the coastal region to the forest and the farm landscapes in Zambia, Musonda Kapeña. Musonda is the CEO of the Zambia National Forest Commodities Association, and she has over 20 years' experience working with forest communities. Musonda, over to you. Thanks a lot, Xiaoting. Greetings from Zambia. As explained, I represent the APEX organization, which is called the Zambia National Forest Commodities Association, with the support of the forest and farm facility program in collaboration with FAO, IUCN, IIED, and Agree Court. So I'm very happy that I'm joining in the webinar, and I would like to share the African and Zambian experience from the community level. So I'll start with the African perspective in the sense that most times, most people don't know that Africa is home to about 25% of the world's remaining rainforests, but this is very quickly disappearing. And about 70% of the population of Africa depend on forests and woodlands for their livelihood. Unfortunately, climate change is already impacting very strongly on the African livelihoods, mainly due to land use changes, and this accounts to a huge proportion of greenhouse emissions. In short, what this means is that there's so much industrialization, there's mining, so land use is changing from forest use to industrialized uses, as I've mentioned. There's urgent need on a continental basis to manage the natural forests and of course to better adapt our ways, our levels of development to mitigate climate change. So from the picture, this is the map of Zambia. It's very diverse, and according to the UN FAO statistics, there's about 65% or there about or translated into 49 million hectares of Zambia is natural forest. But out of that is about 62,000 hectares, which is exotic plantations. This actually contributes to the construction industry where wood is used for all kinds of purposes. So for Zambia, the change in forest cover has been documented still by FAO that between 1990 and 2010, Zambia has lost an average of 166,000 hectares or approximately 0.32% per year. So in total between this period, Zambia has actually lost 6.3% of its forest cover or in terms of hectares, 3 million hectares has been lost. With these statistics, which often seem boring, it's an indicator that we really need to do a lot more. There's an urgent need for us to manage the natural resources for us to adapt to the climate change, which is in the Zambian issue alone, or an African issue, it's a global issue. So what have we done as the Zambia National Forest Commodity Association? We work with farm and forest producer organizations, and through this we support the natural based solutions for climate change. Our mandate is to support the use of indigenous knowledge systems. Most people may not understand this, but when we use indigenous knowledge systems, we are not teaching the forest communities anything new. We're actually learning from them on how they have been able to keep the forest and its resources in trust for us to have found in our generation. The question is what will we be leaving for the next generation? So looking at the top right photograph, it shows a woman in Skawunzwe. Skawunzwe is in the southern tip of Zambia on the border with Namibia, Otswana, and Zimbabwe. She's using her hands to crack a seed from a tree. The tree species is the mungongo tree, and it has a very hard shell, but in the center is a nut with edible oil. The oil has been used for centuries for cooking and for cosmetic purposes, but as you can see the technology hasn't changed in that period, and that's what the ZNFCA is looking at through our incubation systems. As an association, we have groups from forest communities, and what we have is an incubation hub which uses the indigenous knowledge, learning from them, but coupling it with modern technology so that these women can actually make a little bit of money from that, actually a lot of money. Then also what we do is we are lobbying the powers that be through the forest communities so that the realization that these are an indispensable foundation for empowering them as they are already and have always championed nature-based solutions. We also support the landscape as an approach to ensure ecological resilience, especially for water. Zambia has about 45 percent of fresh water in the southern African region, but this is quickly diminishing in the sense that once the forest cover is removed, you expose the hydrology of any area to diminish its resources. So we're happy to say that through the forest and farm facility program with assistance from FAO, IUCN, IED, and Ag report, we are really trying to ensure that the nature-based solutions are championed as the solution to mitigation of climate change, not only in Zambia or Africa, but across the world as well. Thanks a lot. Thanks so much, Muzonda. It was great to see all those pictures from the field that showcases how the local communities are really investing their time resources and the knowledge into nature-based solutions. And I think here I just also want to highlight that in partnership with IUCN and the UNEPWC, IED has also recently collated evidence of the effectiveness of nature-based solutions for adaptation in 12 countries, and the result really tells the same story with what Muzonda has showed us, that only when the communities are meaningfully engaged and we empower them and value the indigenous and the local knowledges, that's when it's an essential building block for us to have any type of effective nature-based solutions. And it's also great to see a lot of good examples coming through the chat box. And I think, Julia, could you put up the next slide of the Mentimeter? So before we go to the question and answer, and there's so many great questions already coming through, we also want to run another polling with you, just reflecting on what you have heard from all the speakers and also found your experiences. Can you go to Mentimeter, use the code 124555 and share up to three words to describe the most important building blocks you've heard, or you've experienced, for translating global ambition for MBS into local actions. We'll give three minutes this time because probably people need to digest a little bit what you heard from the speakers and what you see in the chat box. So please do help us with the polling. Three minutes. Thanks everyone. I think I'll pause there. We can all see the work cloud on the screen and it's really encouraging also to see the very strong message on that we definitely need finance, we need collaboration, we need indigenous people's knowledge and the participation, collaboration between different stakeholders. And that's really also kind of a good segue for us to translate into doing some of the question and answer with all the speakers. I think since the finance is popping up in the middle, maybe we'll just first take up the barriers for assessing finance question and chip in his presentation already gave us some of those barriers from a private sector perspective. And I think Alex, could you probably from a UK government perspective, what do you think from your experience are the biggest the barriers for assessing finance for nature-based illusion for climate change? Over to you Alex. Thanks Erting. I thought chip slide was really useful in regard to some of the obstacles to delivering finance for nature-based solutions. I mean I think one of the barriers is the sort of complexity not only of the NBS itself but also the finance mechanisms required to bring in private finance, the sort of use of innovative blended finance vehicles. Another barrier is the time scales with nature-based solutions as well and the sort of short, medium and long-term returns which may potentially be exacerbated by some of the COVID responses as well given the likely need for a very swift uptake in economic activity. The lack of a pipeline of bankable projects that have transparent enough business cases and data to allow for investment. I would say those are probably the key things that I would comment on the barriers and the areas that we're working on to try and remove those barriers to increase investment. Thanks Alex and also now I wonder from your perspective working with communities you gave quite good examples on how they're already diversifying their value chains and product lines to be more resilient and to support those communities efforts of how is the communities working to increase the finance are there any barriers for them to assess finance how do we help them do you have any over to you. Okay they are quite a lot of barriers for local communities to invest in their own indigenous knowledge mainly because they don't have the savvy knowledge of how the rest of the world deals with grants and finances and stuff like that so that is also part of the work that the Zambia National Forest Commodity Association is doing in bringing them up to speed as best as we can so that they at least start understanding the elementary processes of applying for funds and grants but also how to account for them the need for finance is great in the sense that they need to translate their knowledge and products into internationally acceptable forms for example edible oils and cosmetic oils is what they use all the time but the packaging and the secondary processing of the oils is what is required and what we are looking at in terms of investment is for international local and community people to start investing into presentable ways branded chemically analyzed processes for everybody to then realize that from straight from the nuts the oil is edible it is usable it has been used for centuries in the villages by themselves and now it's about popularizing these products knowing that they are organic and they are assisting communities conserved certain species which in turn ensures that biodiversity is conserved as much as possible. Let me just tip in if I can just because you know there's some I think there's some really important work in lots of different countries around the world but more specifically about microfinance and the use of microfinance and certainly microinsurance as well and so how you develop working with local people on encouraging the use of microinsurance to help finance more sustainable practices into the future so I think it's a really key focus from an insurance industry perspective and that's very much what you know the UN has asked the insurance industry to do is to start working with governments and local governments to build out that more sustainable finance and insurance product. Thanks Chip indeed there's quite a lot of interesting finance model out there and highlighted sometimes the challenges organizing with small producers to be able to speak to the private sector who's providing all government who's providing those type of microfinance microinsurance and help them to access that and Alex I guess what you are trying to say some of the various with time scales and how do we link the medium in long term is also building potentially some of the local communities capacities in being the champions locally rooted championing those long-term solutions and supporting them to access finance and the government can come in to do more capacity building to bridge that gap between the different finance tools being to use the end of the local community who's actually investing quite a lot in those and I think that's then come back to this pop bolted question from all the audience about how do we then better encourage and ensure that the indigenous people's knowledge and the local knowledge can be integrated in designing and justifying implementing nature-based solution and I think most of that you have been given quite interesting examples of how exactly you're working with your local community to do that. I think maybe over to Alex again from your experience and Defer has been also supporting this type of local initiatives what are some of the ways to to in your view to ensure that's the integration of local knowledge. Well I'll talk in a very general way about this and just reflect on the importance of it not only in terms of enabling projects to work in the long term and to be sustainable but also reflecting the fact that nature-based solutions are very locally specific based on local geographies, topography, habitats but also knowledge and management and in order for projects to to be successful we need to engage in a partnership manner. I think that that's one of the things I just really emphasise and I think also the point about knowledge sharing I think again that that's critical and one thing that we have going for us is in this world that's very globalised and very connected is the ability to share information very very quickly with multiple stakeholders so I think trying to build capacity to share that information to make sure that it's suitably critiqued to make sure that it's robust and usable I think is really critical to try and build a sort of a global network of knowledge that can enable you to be faster and to learn from other people's lessons. I'll just add to that just one point which is for those who are not aware the UK is also due to host a joint meeting of the ITBES IPCC workshop and that was due to be held last week and so those are the scientific bodies for both the biodiversity and the climate change convention. That's also being postponed but the plan is for that to run either later this year or early next year and we'll make sure in that the community-based evidence is embedded in the outputs from that workshop as well and then communicated widely so that's one aspect that we can do to help from UK government side as well. Thanks so much Alex and Sarah and I just want to also thank the audience who have been providing examples on how you work with local communities to integrate their knowledge as well. It's great to see examples not only in developing countries but also UK and I just again encourage you to keep on sharing some of the ideas and respond everyone can respond to some of the top voted questions you see in the Q&A box and those the example you shared will be shared more widely and with that there's quite a lot of questions actually understandably about COVID-19 because obviously this is the daily life and the way being all stuck at home and I'm working on this virtual webinar from my office and this is obviously on everyone's mind at the moment and we have a lot of government not talking about the strategies of building back better from COVID-19. So in this context how do we then think about nature-based solution? How can nature-based solution be helpful integrated into building back better narratives and strategies globally? I think that's a question probably posed to all the speakers if Musunda maybe we can first hear from you. Hi yeah so there's a lot in terms of responding to the COVID-19 in the sense that as an organization we have gone around a lot of the communities but of course the challenge has been getting the permits from the Ministry of Health. Locally as a country there are precautions that we've been asked to make so we need to wear our masks and use sanitizers but the thing is that when we go and visit the forest communities they are not very sure about what COVID-19 is so there's a very high need for us and similar organizations to go out in the forest communities which are not along the line of rail or along main roads they are inside some of them are in very hard to reach areas and to actually provide the truth about what COVID-19 is how it's contracted what prevention measures can be taken and we learned interestingly that they already have indigenous ways of prevention for things like flu. So of course COVID is a huge thing and it's a word they may not really understand but when we're able to break it down and talk about the symptoms they already have herbal supplements that they've been using from about March when it hits Zambia and it's really really great that most of them are not even getting the flu considering that Zambia is entering into its cold season of the year. So there's a lot of need we need to collectively do but also we need to learn from them on how else they can prevent infection knowing that sanitizers and masks are expensive and in some cases are not accessible to the forest communities. Additionally most of the fruits in the forest are ripening now for example the baoba the tamarinds and a few others so they are scared that when the urban populations come to buy their products they might come in with the flu. So what we are working with with FAO under the FFF program is to come up with mechanisms which will ensure bulking of the product and instead of the urban buyers entering the forest communities having one or two trained personnel from the forest communities to go into the urban areas with the products but all that is a work in progress and as you know we don't have a lot of time to keep thinking so we have started acting on mobile transactions for money and e-services for them to actually see the product and all that. So it's not as easy to just come up with ideas like that but with constant consultation with the forest and farm producer organizations they too are telling us that they do not want urban people to come in they are scared so they would prefer to actually take it to the nearest road network or the nearest CBD of a town and sell it from a centralized place on behalf of the forest communities in their areas. Thanks Musunda I think it's really bring to home the message that some of we do need to understand some of the local challenges and as the COVID-19 is impacting some of the local practitioners ability to carry out and implement nature-based solutions but at the same time for me it's quite encouraging to see that if we invest in local bodies that support locally rooted organizations that support and mobilize and organize local communities for implementing nature-based solutions they can also be there to respond to other risks like COVID-19 and make them more resilient like Musunda's organization is doing currently so it's quite a really important lesson for us for me at least to hearing Musunda talking about how we can think about nature-based solution investing nature-based solution in the future to make local communities resilient to all the different types of risks they're facing and then Chip can we probably go to you to give some reflections about how in private sector we respond COVID-19 and how then the support and innovative finance packages for nature-based solution can be considered are innovative in the COVID-19 context. I think there are two parts to this answer well maybe three actually one is that as Musunda said you know the sort of on-the-ground response and you know the likes of you know the NGO community that are helping to respond to that I think then you sort of look at this from a short and a longer term perspective and the short-term perspective I think is it is probably quite surprising not surprisingly focused on the on how we dry out of this COVID pandemic and I'm you know very aware of the fact that you know the insurance industry has a fairly large role to play in that not just from a health perspective or you know one being a health perspective which is a fairly large part of it but also driving helping the economy and economies to drive out of this as well so I think that that's part of it so we we do have a very focused view on on things at the moment and it's sort of very much on sort of the things that are right in front of us but of course we're going to take this longer-term view and that's very much sort of where I think you know this kind of conversation is really important that and you know we're still working with governments and in collaboration with with others really to continue to drive NBS as a key and a core solution as we move forward and you know I think that's very much about building those communities of organizations and across the private sector into you know philanthropy governments etc so I think that I think that longer-term view is really key I think that there is potential opportunity now to start talking about certainly when when debt is fairly cheap whether it's possible to start borrowing on that for to focus on resilience more specifically and you know I think that well let's see how long that that debt is cheap for but I think it's a it may be something that we should be starting to to to communicate to investors and that resilience and nature-based solutions is is a it's maybe an interesting place to to put that money. Thanks Chip and it is important to to think maybe in this so we can see a silver lining of opportunity to reset our economy in a more sustainable footing looking at the opportunities of cheap debt for example and then I think that also gave a good segue probably to Alex first and then Sarah next to to talk more about as to mention them it's also important to work with government to think about the strategy on farm COVID-19 recovery so from your perspective could you share a little bit on how do you see nature-based solutions role in the COVID-19 recovery back to narrative thank you. Thanks for saying I mean I have probably more of a general comment on this and I've been reflecting on Chip's point about the long term and and the resetting point I mean the World Bank and others are being lots of thinking about how the global economy can build back better and I think one of the that's probably how one of the point out is that you know as we enter this point of coming out of the pandemic it's the point at which the risk and opportunities are at the greatest the the risk of trying to resort to a business as usual type way of behavior which we've seen has not been working for the environment up to now versus the opportunity of building a more sort of sustainable longer term global economy and nature has a role in that for sure but I think it's just being alive the fact that this is a really pivotal moment and that we need to make sure that that we get it right. Thanks I can probably talk a little bit about what the UK government's doing in this space at the moment and this is all an emerging picture of course because we are amidst the pandemic and so I mean one just to reassure you that conversations are going on right across government about these these discussions on building back better putting nature and making sure that when we do have a recovery that it's resilient and sustainable and many of you may have seen the article that Lord Goldsmith wrote in the Financial Times earlier this week on this issue which really makes them the links between everything we've been talking today the impacts of Covid and the importance then of actually making sure and we do come through this and we and start to recover that we we do put nature at the heart of that recovery so I guess it's a sort of holding answer for now because we are still in the in the sort of very early stages of thinking about this thinking about what we need to do to build back better but I do think that I mean I completely agree we both chip analytics on this that a long-term solution is needed and I I really look forwards to the work that Daskepta review team are doing on the economics of biodiversity and seeing whether there's any sort of emerging findings from there which we can really help sort of mainstream these issues into our finance and decision making going forwards thanks thanks it is encouraging to to see those conversations happening and the thinking is happening at the national government level and I do realize we're running out a little bit of time and there are questions about basically the next top voted question is about good examples from cities I do recognize that most of us actually work not just in cities and probably in more rural or suburb area so I do probably encourage you I'll pass this question to the audience and if you have examples of cities please do provide the next two very interesting question that linked to technology so how are we the role of emerging technology and those especially locally relevant technologies and what are their roles for MBS but I think probably also on the flip side of that point when we look at technologies the other question is that are we talking too much more about nature-based solutions overly human driven human interventions for nature-based solutions and what are the opportunities for rewilding of nature that potentially is also cost-effective and again I think maybe we can flip this time the answering and it's all still to all the panelists just to give you a quick response to this do you want to take this question first well I'll just I'll have a or just talk about technology very briefly but I think that in terms of I think this all needs to be based in science and on scientific understand peer-reviewed science and I think that's actually critical of course that takes time there's a lot of there is work going on in in understanding how nature-based solutions what nature-based solutions can actually do I think technology piece is critical and I think the things like utilizing mapping is probably one of the most important things there is some work of course being done on that pretty good a lot I think that needs to get into the hat well certainly from my perspective the hands of the insurance industry so we can start to identify and utilize that to better understand the impact of degradation and then we can start to to price risk more accurately as well so I think yes technology is is key but I think part of it is not just sort of the global overview but also local understanding and local use of that too thanks Alex I saw your hand as well thanks I think yeah I know I think tip has kind of covered what I was going to say but I think basically in science when evidence is critical technology is hugely important in terms of sort of transparency and data piece as well nature-based solutions are thinking about building up the evidence for investment and for de-risking investment as well and that's everything from earth observation satellites to using drones etc to monitor developments on the ground and so yeah I think I think it's critical at a sort of meta level in terms of the mapping side but also at a local level to maybe get over some of the issues around resource and capacity for example thank you and also that do you have any examples of how the local communities are working with technologies or what has some of the locally relevant technology you've seen thanks a lot well currently um communities in Zambia are looking are already trying to use inventory technology which isn't based on anything high tech but they're looking at counting their resources taking an inventory of how many barbub trees they how many type of any medial trees they are in the sense that there's conflicting uses of these trees like the energy sector where charcoal is manufactured from any tree species so for the future we're looking at using drones and using mapping GPS systems to ensure that each community has forest tenure then they'll have control of the forest as it is now these usable species are found across open areas which really don't belong to everybody but as the as the old adjud says what belongs to everybody ends up belonging to nobody because everybody feels that they can enter and just harvest whatever they feel like so as soon as we adopt um appropriate technology it will be easy to have projections of volumes based on seasonality not every year is the same as the other year this year we haven't got as much barbub in the sense that traditionally each barbub tree produces like 500 pods of barbub but this year each tree is producing like a hundred but that information is already transmitted from one generation to the other we're coming up with a documentation system with evidence that this particular tree in this area would be utilized and belonging to this particular forest community group but additionally in the processing of forest products we've used the pesto and mortar or the cracking by hand for a long time we're looking at adaptable technologies which would include nutcrackers, oil wells, pan labelling, many things rudimentary but that's a step ahead of what the forest communities are using now it will be faster more hygienic and easier to market when the packaging and the quality is is controlled with for example pen sized hydrometers and all that then they would be able to know what quality they need to consistently chain out as opposed to now where they're only selling out raw fruit and raw oil without value addition to it so it's a very welcome aspect that is needed for the there's need for appropriate technology based on each geographical area and most of it has to be solar based because we don't have as much electricity in the first communities as we have in the urban areas thank you great thanks it's a good to think about so there's a technology that can help us work better with nature generating enough science for us to understand how do we actually or effectively work with nature to depth of climate change and mitigate climate change inventory technologies mapping it's quite interesting to then also hear about technology that can help with access to finance so for local communities Moxonda was giving the example of how technology can help them package their diversified products in the resilient food production systems to assess market and have a better premium price and I think about the couple of key things I also heard that's quite important is that the technology is not the only thing we still need to think about how to integrate technology with local knowledge and then there's also very important enabling conditions the policy conditions for those technology to work like the forest handy and the security for local communities and with that we're coming to the end of the webinar but just before we finish since it's international day for biodiversity I would also like to finish our discussion on my more biodiversity specific note and coming back to that enabling policy framework and Sarah what you talked about the beginning of importance of the increase the global ambition when immediate concrete opportunity with Sarah you touched upon its influence and skill up ambition for MBS for climate change in the post 2020 biodiversity framework which is currently being negotiated and will set specific targets and hopefully have ambitious plans to transform our relationship with nature so based on what we discussed today and all the chats a good example we've seen in the chat box I would like to invite all the speakers to just skip one last minute to share your recommendation for what do you want to see in the post the 2025 diversity framework and then we start with you again thanks a lot there's an old African adage which goes if you don't know where you're going stop and look back and learn from where you're coming from so um representing indigenous knowledge systems and forest communities it's important that a lot more investment is put in of appropriate technology appropriate collaboration I'm emphasizing on appropriate because technology is very wide but at the same time when looking forward to conserving the forest biodiversity in the sense that in it is the secret to everything in it without biodiversity we'll be losing who we are as a people because our existence is based on where we have come from where we had fruits and foods and medicines and water and soils and bees and honey in abundance but as every day goes by we are losing thousands and millions of hectares around the world of rainforests of woodlands of grasslands which have sustained us for aeons before us so it's important that we all really start to act we've talked a lot but we need to each act so that each of us can then be responsible and accountable to the whole world in terms of the next generation thanks a lot thank you check I think that I think it's just integrating and ensuring that the finance community is part of the discussion I think that there's a real need and I you know certainly from from one of you at AXA you know we don't just ensure things whether it be health and or or anything really but also we are a fairly important investor and so I think that there's a need to really drive a better understanding for the kind of public investing you know investing at that scale where corporates are able to undertake assessments risk and opportunities in the space and for me I think you know focusing on biodiversity more specifically that's actually critical because everything that we do is based upon you know what the world has given us and so I think yeah engaging the finance community is a really key part I think of thanks Chip and once I did forget to say is that please the audience if you have any specific recommendation for the post 2020 biodiversity framework please put it in the chat box as well and then now over to you Sarah and then Alex you can be the last awards on this webinar thank you so um as someone who was around in 2010 when the achieve biodiversity targets were being agreed um I think from my perspective it's not so much um what I would want to see in the framework although it's it is related it's it's very much to me how we then make sure that any framework is implemented effectively so I think um you know many people would argue that the post the current itchy targets um they do tackle the main drivers of decline in biodiversity that's that's not the the thing and the question what actually is the thing and the question is that that framework is not working in terms of the implementation mechanisms when it gets down to the country level so how do we actually increase that implementation and to do that you will need to start looking at some of those underlying drivers um of biodiversity such as consumption production finance um looking at how we mainstream the economics um into biodiversity etc so um that would be from my from my side make sure that we actually implement this one effectively thanks definitely implementation Alex uh yeah it's quite intimidating to have to have the last last word on this um so I think I'll just keep it fairly high level and kind of reflecting on what Sarah was saying I think the the post injury framework needs to reflect the scale and complexity of the problem that we're facing um so the ambition that needs to be generated the innovation um that needs to be applied to uh implementation around uh you know in mainstream finance and consumption there are some big decisions I think that need to be made or that can be made and I think that parties going into this should be mindful of that um and I would also add one other point is joining that up with COP26 and the UNFCC in the climate debate and with the post COVID recovery I mean in a way you could argue that the delay to the cops is useful in that context um but really to to embrace the ambition and innovation required to address these solutions thanks Alex for reminding us keeping the eyes on the target and keep on pushing the global ambition collectively with that I just want to quickly say thank you to all the panelists and all the participants joined us today sorry we run over a little bit um but just a quick um note on what will happen next we'll summarize some of the key points into a blog though that may not capture all the very rich discussions and the chats we had today so we'll also post a recording of this webinar on YouTube and share with all of those who have registered most importantly we hope this webinar has provided all of you with some fruitful thoughts and some useful contacts and examples so please continue to connect with each other and reach out to others you met over the webinar you see some examples in the chat you think it's interesting please do follow up and then some of the question I do realize we didn't have time to cover all of them but you can get in touch with us and the panelists as well post a webinar and we can also continue the discussion after this please contact ied if you have any feedback on the webinar and also if you want to learn more about ied's work on the intersection of nature climate development we very much look forward to future collaborations and continue discussion with you all and happy international biodiversity day to all thanks everyone and i have a great weekend i hope you go out to the nature