 Okay, go ahead. Good evening. It is 705 and this is the town services and outreach committee. And the first thing I'm going to do is make sure that everybody who's here can hear and be heard. And I'll begin with a Nica Lopes. Yes. And I'm going to start with D. Steinberg. Yes. Dorothy Pam. Yes. Shalini Balmille. Yes. Anna Devon got here. Sure can. Great. And we have with us this evening, both Paul, and. So I want to start by first of all, thanking Dorothy Pam for her service as the chair of TSO. This has always been an interesting committee. And Dorothy, we really want to thank you for taking it on from January until September when you started teaching and having other members of the community. And we're going to talk about that at some point tonight too. So our first. Responsibility at this point is to. Elect a chair of TSO. So the floor is open for nominations. Okay. Do I raise my hand formally right here? I nominate Annika. Annika Lopes to be chair of TSO. Okay. Are there any other nominations? Nika needs to accept the nomination. Thank you. And Nika, do you accept the nomination? Yes. Thank you. I'm not sure of the answer. Are there any other nominations? Dorothy, you need to. Put your hand down. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Then I'm going to ask Annika if she would like to say a few words. Well, thank you. Thank you for the nomination. And I'm glad that you are all here. This evening, especially. Lynn, Athena and Paul. So I can kind of get my bearings through this. First transition. Thank you. Okay. With that, then I'm going to take a roll call. Vote. Since there's just one nominee, we can open the floor for a motion to elect. Annika as chair. Thank you. I'm so glad that we have Athena here. Is there a motion to elect a Nika as chair? So moved. Okay. Andy has made that motion. Is there a second? I seconded. Dorothy is seconded that. I'm sorry. Sorry, I'm delayed. I also seconded the Dorothy can have that one. Okay. So with that, then we're going to, now are we ready to take the vote? Athena. Thank you. I'm so glad that we have Athena here. Is there a motion to elect a Nika as chair? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So I'm going to begin without, I'm going to try to do this alphabetically. Shalini Balmille. Yes. Anna Devlin got here. Absolutely. Yes. Anika Lopes. Yes. Thank you. Dorothy Pam. Yes. Andy Steinberg. Yes. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Now, Anika. I'm more than glad to turn this over to you. I'm also very willing to stay in the meeting. But the next item in fact is the. Election of vice chair. Okay. And that's yours to carry on. Okay. All right. So moving right along. Do we have a nomination for vice chair of TSL? Okay. Thank you. Shalini and I want you to nominate. Anna Devlin got here. Okay. Thank you. Do we have a second? So Anna needs to accept the nomination. Okay. Do you accept the nomination? I do. Thank you very much. My pleasure. Thank you. Then I will second that. Nomination. Okay. So Anna can make a statement if she'd like to. And unless there are other nominations. Are there any other nominations? And what's twice. Okay. Anna, would you like to say a few words? Me a few words, never. Yes, of course. Thank you so much. Thank you, Shalini. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I think the biggest shock has been how much I can get into water and sewer rates. So I'm just, you know, so glad that. The folks who are dealing with us with us get to see. This happened. No, thank you. I appreciate it. I'm excited about it. Let's do it. Thank you, Anna. Thank you. And with that. Oh, we're going to take the vote. Okay. So. You have to have a motion. I move to elect. Anna is the vice chair. Is there a second? And then I second that emotion. Okay. Now we're calling the vote. So Shalini. Yes. Andy. Yes. Dorothy. Yes. I'm also a yes honor. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Do we have any other business to attend for the elections? Or can we move on to passing over to Anna as well? Anna and Amy, thank you for being with us the. To review the updated water and sewer regulations. We're all set with the election. So you can go ahead and move forward. Okay. Good. So thank you to those Anna and Amy for being with us. I'm handing it over to you all for the update. And I'm going to keep passing that right over to Amy. And I just want to also thank Amy. For all of the work that she's done on this. It's not been a small feat. And I appreciate both Amy and Gilford for meeting with me and working with TSO through this process. I'm really excited about these changes. I think they're going to do a lot of good for. I think they're going to do a lot of good work. I think they're going to do a lot of good work. I think this work pretty smoothly. I'm going to go ahead and say that confidently. So Amy, I will. I will. Turn this to you. Okay. Fantastic. I'm just getting Paul. I guess. I guess Paul, I'll turn it to you. I guess the first thing is to find out how you guys want to run tonight. If you want to go through it line by line. Do you want us to talk about it in general? I guess the question is how much detail do you want to go in with the process? I think it's a good question. I think it's a good decision. Oh, I apologize. Personally, I'm comfortable going through it more generally, given that we have gone through it line by line. Previously, however. If there are other members of TSO who have specific concerns in any of the line items. I would welcome that as well, but I'm more comfortable. I'm comfortable with general. If any is okay with that. Okay. Okay. I can share whatever you guys are comfortable with. Did this get sent out to everyone? Yes. Yes. Okay. Good. So quickly. Dorothy, did you have a question? Yes. I do have it. I haven't read it looking at it, but I have it with all the comments and colors and it's great. So my thought is we did really great discussion before. So I think there were a couple of items that weren't totally completed or weren't finished or you had to go back and check. So I would like to look at those and you would know which ones they are because I feel that what we did, we did, but there are a couple of places where it told what we have to, you know, do a little further checking on that. So. If, if Amy and Anna know which ones those are, I think that's what I'd like to look at. Yeah. Okay. Sorry, go ahead. I don't know if you have this up in front of you. And are able to pull it up. Otherwise, if you, if folks want to give me 30 seconds, I can get my computer up. Okay. I will let you get it up because I, I'm not 100% sure that the version I have on this computer is the absolute final version that got sent because I was working on it in two different places. But I can at least Dorothy. Yeah, Amy, that'd be great. Well, and more, I'm just going to highlight, you know, a couple of the decisions that were made at the TSO level and therefore a couple of kind of the major overhauls that you're going to see in the rigs. I'm buying your time on a. Yeah, I can appreciate that a whole lot. The first thing is, you know, obviously we talked about you guys wanting to shift the ownership of the service lines. And that was a big discussion. And ultimately we decided that the town owns what's underneath the, you know, the town right of way. So underneath the road and up to the property line. And then from the property line, it transitions to the owner owning everything that's there. And typically there's the curb stop and the shutoff valve. That's right on that property line. It's not always in that exact location. And so that is captured. There were that kind of had a trickle down the fifth. There were several places where we had to kind of modify language. To, you know, delineate who's responsible for, you know, repairs in certain situations and that sort of thing. But the big part of that is on page seven. Initially water service pipe. We had ownership installation and maintenance kind of all under one umbrella and I broke out ownership to have one. And that was one of the big sections that got added. And, you know, we put a lot of thought and specificity in there. Another one was the resolution process. You guys decided how we wanted to have if anybody has. Any, any question that might come up whether. They think something the town should take care of and we're saying that they should take care of it or whether they get a fine for something or just kind of any place where they may take issue to this, we put a resolution process in. So that's at the bottom of page six, going into page seven. Is a very specific resolution processes. And so there were a lot of questions and comments that you guys had throughout that was like, you know, what's the due process? How can somebody, you know, have a conversation if, you know, to make sure that these things are being applied fairly. And so that's going to, I'm going to, all of my comments there are pointing back to the resolution process. Thank you, Amy. Dorothy. Did you have another question? Yeah. About the resolution process. I just want to be sure that I know that the big questions we had, which we couldn't answer was how many days are required. For each of the steps. And that added up to a certain amount of time. That the communication with the person. Would be not just by, you know, posting it somewhere on an email board or whatever that would be personal communication. To the, you know, to the person at their address. Maybe it mail that would come to their house or. Because sometimes things are done legally, which is just putting it in a newspaper and people don't see it or don't get it. And I'm just wanted to know a little bit about how that's done. Okay. I'll say there's a couple of things that I'm going to talk about. I guess I was envisioning that anytime we're going into the resolution process, it's because somebody's had a violation. We've notified them of the violation. And so that's a letter that goes to the owner of record that, you know, according to what's. In our system. I know sometimes you have, you know, You know, You know, You know, You know, You know, You know, You know, You know, You know, You know, You know, You know, You know, You know, You know, The system. I know sometimes you have absentee owners and somebody else on the property and that gets convoluted, But we only have the information we have based on who's the owner and who's responsible for the, you know, the water bill and the sewer bill and therefore responsible for these things. But yeah, you're right. There are some things like say if we have a. You know, A, you know, send a letter to every single person in the water system. Instead, there would be announcements on the website, a blast email going out to everyone. There would be information in the news. And there are fines for violating that, although the first course is just to give them a warning to make sure that they're aware of it. Because we do recognize that not everyone might consume the media that lets them know. Right. OK, thank you. And the 21 days is consistent, Dorothy, with the other timelines that the town typically gives. So it should be, it shouldn't be surprising to folks when 21 days is what it is. Good. OK, so now that I've gotten my head screwed on a little bit straighter, thank you for your patience, everybody. So what I'm going to ask of TSO is we are going to let's, I think we should keep our conversation general because that is how we've done it. And y'all have had the opportunity to go through this. So if there are specific line items that you'd like to discuss, we are open to that. But we generally want to, what we're bringing to the council are the full regs. But really what we need to discuss with the council are the major changes we're making. I don't know. And if anyone disagrees with anything I'm saying right now, please cut me off. I always welcome that. But that first major change, as Amy discussed, was the ownership shifting. We had talked about, just to remind folks and remind myself, we had kind of brainstormed what this was going to look like. And I really appreciate Amy finding a resolution that felt doable. I'll use that phrase doable by the folks in water. So we are currently talking through, or we've landed on that the town is responsible from the property line, or off of the property line. Yeah. And that the owner is responsible on their property. Are there any concerns after folks have read through this, or are we still comfortable with that major change? OK. Well, and I would further add that let's also look at this with an eye of, we made this major change. Let's make sure that the wording here reflects what we've all agreed upon. Because I want to make sure that we get the sets of eyes to make sure that we're actually wording it correctly, because then we're stuck with it. And so one of the things, whoo! Sorry. One of the things is a precarious situation right now. One of the things right now that we had talked about was how to shift it over. And so the wording that Amy put in, I'm going to in 7B. All existing water pipes shall meet installation requirements. Water service pipes that do not currently meet them will be required to modify in order to comply. But that modification will be triggered when the owner is conducting work or is submitted a permit. So it's not going to be that everybody in the town needs to go through and check their water pipes. It's saying that if something happens, you then would need to bring it into compliance. So that wording is on page, where am I? Ooh, page number. It's 7B, I guess. 7B, join. Oh. Yeah, it's right there. Yep. Oh yeah, I mean it's all over the place, which is great. So then the other part that we had talked about, I'm just going to read language out loud in case folks want to confirm this. So the town owns and is responsible for the water service line within the town's right of way, including, oh, Amy, these words, including all, help me. Appurtenances. Appurtenances, yeah. Dorothy, Pam. Thank you for that. I'm going to write it, not say it. That's a great word. I'm going to try to figure out how to use this in all other parts of my life, including all appurtenances, such as the curb box, curb stops, curb stop, and corporation. We're good so far, so good. The curb box and curb stop are typically located at the property line and therefore mark the line where ownership shifts between the two parties. In this case, the curb box and curb stop are owned by the town. In locations where the curb box and curb stop are not located at the property line, ownership of the water service pipe shall change from the town to the owner at the property line, at the location of the property line. And in cases where that box and stop are not located in the property line, it will be relocated when work is done on the water service line. The cost shall be the responsibility of the town if it's located on town property and the owner if it's located on private property. Should sound very familiar. Yes, that's good. Great. The owner owns and is responsible for the water service line outside of the town's right-of-way, regardless of whether it is the owner's property or if it crosses other private property. This is the other element that we discussed, where in the rare instances with water that it crosses over someone else's property, whose responsibility is it, it's still the homeowner, the owner whose line it is. Whose house it serves. Whose house it's going to, yeah, thank you. Our folks comfortable with, I'm not gonna make us vote on every single line here, but I wanted to just do quick, this is your opportunity to speak if not comfortable. Okay, great. So then we've got the portion of the water service pipe as it extends from the main to the edge of the town property shall be installed, maintained and abandoned at the town's expense. That's the other big shift here. Portion of the water service pipe from the edge of town property to the premises shall be installed, maintained and abandoned by the owner at the owner's expense. If they are, if the, oh, Paul. Does it make sense to be sharing the document Anna? So I'm not sure that I can because the track changes version was not in the packet, but if we put it in the packet afterwards, I think I can. Oh, so I'm sorry about that. I have it here with the track changes. When I upload it and it has track changes, it doesn't, it just accepts the changes when it converts to a PDF. So I have to save it differently in order to show the track changes in the packet. So I'll remember to update that, but it should be in the SharePoint one the right way. Yeah. I don't mind sharing it. You know, you don't have to if you have other things to do with your computer. I can juggle. Okay. All right. Okay. So I just got to watch your screen instead. Okay. So curb box, curb stop are typically located to the property line or am I? Oh, yeah. We read this. We were like down in section two. Yep. All right. So the installation and maintenance. So this is who's responsible for maintaining. Yes. I was on B. So the edge of town property to the premises shall be installed, maintained, abandoned by the owner. If the curb stop and corporation are located outside of the town property, it is maintained by the owner until it is relocated. And we had talked about when that relocation would happen prior. Good here so far. Okay. Great. Athena, could you keep scrolling down? Thank you. These are, I believe these are just minor updates. Amy, right? Just to say motion standards. Yeah. I think some of like this one right here that's in the middle of our screen, it was more of sometimes the question was just like, when is this triggered? So I think some of these are just clarifying, you know, it's not like these ranks come into place and everybody has to upgrade their service. Otherwise they're going to get a fine. It was, you know, you come into compliance when you trigger because X, Y and Z. So there's some of that littered throughout that are just, you know, I see them as kind of minor updates. It's just clarifying. Thank you. Yep. And then we had talked about this before in terms of the owner, this is triggered when the owner is doing work. So we can keep scrolling. I did have a question on that. We're going to say Amherst construction standards. Is that defined else in the definition section? I can't go backwards to look so. It is. Yeah. And we, I think again, like eagle eyes, which I appreciated caught that there might have been one or two places where we weren't using the exact correct term. But yeah, that's the construction standards that our engineering staff in public works standardizes on. In terms of the piping and material types and stuff like that. Yeah. So Andy, it reads Amherst construction standards shall mean the most current approved town of Amherst material and construction specifications in the definition. And that was added. So that was a good catch. And is that a document available to the public or to somebody who inquires about it? How do people know what those standards are? So, no, that's a great question. Cause it's something that we have had kind of internal for a while. And one of the things that we want to do with the water rags and the sewer rags is formalize contractors in town and the construction standards and have a more formal process of it. And that's how this is written is anybody that wants to pull a permit to do work in town, they have to be an approved contractor, which you'll see throughout here. And how they become an approved contractor is they get the standards on an annual basis and they sign off to say, yes, I'm going to comply with these. I've received these, I'm going to comply. And so they're all going to be publicly available. And then a list of the contractors who are approved will be online as well. And that kind of helps us. We've had a couple of contractors that have come in town that have done a really not great job. They don't pull permits, they do things illegally. We have to chase them down afterwards, that sort of thing. And so this process will help us ensure that the people that the town of Amherst hire for work as needed are going to be meeting the standard that we want. Okay, thank you. Thank you. So Dorothy, do you have a question as well? I do, thank you. I was thinking that it would be good to help people touch base with the town, have contractors touch base with the town before they work. And then you use the phrase that I, my brain was seeking, pull permit. Do, are the construction people required to do something, go into town where they would receive a piece of paper that says, don't forget, this is what you have to do? Or are they allowed to go ahead and start the project and then go to town? Because to me it's better if they go. They are, sorry, you paused and I didn't realize you were still talking. I'm done. No, they are technically required to have a permit before they do work. We do have problems from time to time where contractors don't, every once in a while our guys will be driving around town and they'll see that somebody's redone their driveway and they haven't pulled a driveway permit for it. Or we see a trench in someone's lawn and they didn't pull a permit for it. So we have to chase them down every once in a while. But generally there's a lot of great contractors in town and they know the process and they do it correctly. The other benefit that I see of this process is right now, we're not allowed to suggest contractors and that kind of feels, that feels bad when someone calls us and says, I've got a problem. I know I've got to fix this water leak. Can you recommend someone? And technically we're not allowed to say, hey, this guy's a great contractor because that wouldn't be fair to be recommending certain companies over others. If we have a approved contractor list then we can share that. We can be more helpful to the citizens but it's not like an unfair, I'm helping out my buddy here and not recommending someone else that could do the work. So it helps us be better. Let's keep going down. So far the other track changes are in line with what we've already discussed. They're just adding that same language into each section until we get to, I don't know if you can get down to shut off valves or thawing, sorry. And I think, yes, thank you. All right, so curb stop thing is the same in, oops, sorry. Curb stop thing is the same in the last one. That's why I'm skipping it. Then we get to installation. So this should all be just consistency at this point, making sure that everything is reading the same. And then if you keep going down to the leaking element, one and one and two, yep. Yes, bottom of the speech. So in the case where a leaking service is thought to be on the town's portion and it's found, and then once they excavate and look at it and it's on the owner's property, the town will complete that repair but the owner will be billed and is responsible for paying for the portion of the repair that occurs outside of the town's property. And then in the case where that leak is thought to be on the owner's portion and it's found on the town's, the owner will tell the town, the town will complete and be responsible and pay. Within the town's property. So this is, we're trying to capture that conversation of if there's a leak, and we think it's here but it's really over here, then who pays for what and how do we kind of slice and dice responsibility and financial responsibility. So. And I thought that was pretty artfully done. So thank you. If we go down to location and placement of meters. Yep, right there, Athena, thank you. The owner or customer shall ensure that, we've played with this one for a while, didn't we? You guys did not like my language at all. So, hopefully this is an error. I don't know if you caught me on a picky day. The owner or customer shall ensure that the location for the installation and placement of the meter has no standing water and temperatures above freezing at all times. That's great. Further, the owner shall maintain a cleared path and ensure the meter is not blocked by items. The meter shall be placed in accordance with the return. That's the same thing. And easily accessed by person upright sitting or kneeling position located between one foot and three and a half feet off the ground with a ceiling of at least six feet tall for the purpose of reading, maintaining and changing the meter. If a meter is located in an inaccessible place for maintenance, the utility will require the owner to remove and place it during the next meter upgrade. This was also our update, thank you. It took out all ambiguity. Good. Very clear. Just, I'm realizing there's a spelling error, so hopefully there's a spelling error. Okay, I caught it. I guess it doesn't matter, because this is in my document, but. Great. We'll get back. Do you want to make a note of that or do you want me to change it in this version? If you could change it in your version, that's fine. Is it this? Temperature. No, it's temperature. It also maintain. It doesn't need an S. Here you go. Okay. Thank you, Athena. Right, right. Okay. This is a minor one, but a clarifier as well. For the purpose, we're on letter D, which is that the owner shall provide valves located on either side of the meter for the purpose of shutting down the water service inside the house when needed, instead of the owner shall provide valves. Under, before we go on, go back to where that correction was made and just check, because you did temperature. Do you want an S on it or not? Okay. I was gonna say, if it's temperature, yeah, it needs an S. Thank you, Andy. Sorry, I'm splitting my laptop screen so that Athena's is kind of small for me. All right, so going down to four meter, reading a meter usage, we're still sticking with quarterly. Owners can request monthly, but they will have to pay a little bit more for it. The utility at its own discretion may read and bill monthly at high usage accounts. And so I just wanted to confirm, Amy, that people would know if they're a high usage account, this wouldn't just be a normal home, right? Correct, the high usage accounts, they're the large diameter meters. Mostly, I mean, you have a large diameter because you've got more water flowing through. So it's not, I wish I could just say, if you've got a two inch meter or bigger, it's monthly, but it's not 100%, but it's mostly all the apartments in town, all of the colleges, and a handful of businesses that use a lot of water. Okay, thank you. All right, so then we're gonna go all the way down to agricultural meters, that is the next fun. So agricultural meters, you took out the part that talks about how what it doesn't include. I think that was fine. You just added it in a sentence later. Yeah, and so folks can see here that it's broken out a little bit more. They've approved backflow prevention, et cetera, et cetera. This was, if you go back to, I wanna say about 2017 or 18, it was the select board at the time. They approved an agricultural meter use policy that was a standalone policy. And I think in our first version, we had just appended that policy as approved. And you guys said, if we're doing this whole thing, let's just roll those regs right in. And so that's what this is, is it's the same stuff that the select board had approved years ago, but it's putting it in this format and rolling it in. So perfect, thank you. I prefer this version that it's part of this. Are folks comfortable moving on? This is the same thing that we've been looking at. Okay, we've got meter testing, which should be the, this is just spelling out what accuracy I think means. So test to determine if it's compliant with an accurate meter test. And then, that was really just because the definition, we didn't want it to be accurate meter test because then it's at the top and it's not anywhere near the meter. So in the definitions, we call it meter test comma accurate. So all that is the shifting words around so that this is consistent with the definition we use in the beginning. Thank you. Athena, we're going to scroll way down to hydrants, which is D, big letter D. And I don't have pages for you, which is very frustrating and I'm sorry. Keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going. Slow back, slow hydrants, there we go. So clarifying that a reasonable amount of time is going to be a month unless they agree on a different time with the utility. I have no problems with that, that seems great. No issues, okay. Private meters are allowed in submetering. Maintenance of plumbing is responsibility of the owner. That makes sense, everything is on their property. So can we go down to lawn irrigation systems because this is where I'm still feeling either stupid or like something might not be right here. Thank you. So all lawn yard irrigations, install the private property must be compliant with the below by January 1st. And so my questions were actually up a bit, oh, they're on theirs, okay, great. So I had asked about the definition of lawn irrigation systems because my concern was, is the second somebody puts a sprinkler in their yard that's attached to a hose that's attached to their house, is that a lawn irrigation system? And so, Athena, you do not have to scroll up, I will scroll fast for you. And so the definition of lawn irrigation system shall mean irrigation systems for outdoor water uses outside the definition of agricultural use. Lawn irrigation systems include both temporary and installed permanent systems. So to confirm, Amy, you are saying that if someone puts a hose attached to their house and puts a sprinkler on the end to water their garden, that they have to go to the town and get a permit. No. Okay, so can you explain what a temporary lawn irrigation system is? I guess I was more focused on the permanent where if it's below grade or even like a drip irrigation, if it's a, I don't know, I'm certainly looking for guidance on, this is not intended for if you're connected to a hose and have a sprinkler out there, this is intended for if you have sprinkler heads, a drip irrigation system, that's something that's installed. Okay, so let's work through this then, because the installed part, I think makes more sense to me as like, it's a mission, like you're going in and putting something in, but wouldn't those, maybe this is my ignorance of lawn irrigation, because if you look at my house, I don't do a great job of it, but wouldn't those all be relatively permanent? I guess if you want to even just take out temporary and permanent and just say, like an installed system. I'm comfortable with that. How do other folks feel? Installed means you dug into the dirt and put the permanent little things that sprinkle the water, right? That's gonna be by installed. It's not a hose lying on top of the ground. Not a hose lying on top of the ground, although the drip irrigation, Amy, that's the part that's throwing me. Yeah, I don't know much about drip irrigation and I don't know if that's something where part of it is laid out every year and then picked up every year, but that's a system system, not a sprinkler. And to my mind, there's two forms of drip irrigation. In agriculture, there's little stands that we would not have that are currently done. There's another thing called a drip hose, which is attached to your faucet, and then lies there and just has a lot of little holes in it and you do very slow water kind of thing. You know, that's something a homeowner could do that if they want right now. That's a one form, I think, unless, unless I- I know what you're talking about, Dorothy. I think the question is, is that a problem? Anika. So I guess for both, Juana, you've said that this is really your area. So for Amy, it seems that, could this, you think that this is a question that could really get into the weeds if just, if the word permanent is used? And do you, just in your experience, do you find that in most cases, the word permanent would be strong enough that people would understand that or, you know, it could be pushed to say, well, you know, it's put this way, it's not necessarily permanent because it does seem like, like I completely understand it should be clear, but it seems like something that you could really go get into the weeds. Yeah. With a definition. Why don't I suggest, because this is not something that I know super well, especially since grip irrigation is, you know, kind of what the town and a lot of people are pushing on us. And I don't know a lot about that. I know the, in the ground irrigation heads. I feel like I'd be more comfortable taking this note and trying to, you know, if we're okay with everything else and we understand the intent, I can do a little bit of research and get this right. That's fine. Amy, that sounds great. My masterful solution was just to move the word installed to be before temporary and permanent because the installed feels like a key element. Yes. The difference here, regardless of whether you install it every season or not, it's something that you install. But beyond that, I welcome, if you'd like to go back, that's fine as well. It's like, if you want to take this away and think about it for a while. I feel like I'm okay with what you're saying because it gets at both types of systems. And I'll just look at it tomorrow. And if we're all saying something that is totally not appropriate. Awesome. We'll catch it. Athena, for your notes, I'm tracking this and I'll send it to Amy. So don't worry about it. If that's helpful. Okay. So we're gonna go back down to, that was my big question about lawn irrigation was whether or not I had to keep coming to town hall every time I wanted to put my hose outside. Which didn't seem like something you would want. Nobody wants that. Yeah. The fewer reasons folks can give me to come into town hall I think is the goal from folks here. Okay. So found it again. Any other issues on irrigation from other folks? Everything else seems to make sense to me. I'll just say, I know there were a lot of questions and comments and like look over my responses but a lot of this whole section in terms of having a backflow which really can just be a vacuum breaker. It doesn't have to be a testable device that we come in and test regularly. Moisture meters so that it doesn't water when it's raining. This is all stuff that the state is very strongly recommending and so, especially with water conservation stuff and water safety these are, if they're not required right now they're gonna be required in a really short amount of time. Yep. And then we had talked about, I think there's at least one other point in this where there's a new form that will have to be created and added and the lawn irrigation had one as well for the permitting of that. So, I guess this is a process question then we need to make sure that those forms are created by the time we approve these. Is that true? I guess I'm looking to Paul on this one or whoever really? Sorry, sorry Paul. Just like if we're gonna pass something that references forms that are yet to be created I'm just assuming that we're also kind of then giving Amy and Gullford a deadline of when to create those forms by. Yeah, you can have an effective date of the bylaw of these regulations saying, November 1, January 1, whatever it is you wanna start but they don't exist now, so. Right, right. Okay. Donna, do you want me to just mention to that point that in the initial version we had a lot of different like permits and stuff appended to this and the town has shifted to online permitting for a lot of stuff. And so ultimately I think we took out all of the appendixes because ultimately all these permits are available online or they will be soon. Right now they might be in paper format but the town is pushing everything to online. So it didn't make sense to append a paper version when that's not how we're doing it anymore. Yeah, so. Thank you, thank you. All right, we're gonna keep going way down because I think Amy did a great job catching the comments here and there's no major shifts because of them. Athena, we are heading down to section five liability. I swear I don't know how to add page numbers to my own document, sorry. It's not my document, but for some reason mine doesn't have pages. Oh, there we go. Okay, great. And keep going down to number four, please. Thank you. So this is just an ad in here. I believe right, Amy, that the utility reserves the right to shut off water in the mains if there's emergency repairs or other necessary purposes. They'll do their best to notify customers and prevent that damage but the utility does not take liability if the owner did not get the message. And I will say from my experience you all have done a great job with those notifications from what I've seen and heard. So I think that this is fine to put in there. I think that you really do a good job. And it's not that different from, you just moved it up, right? Yeah, I just moved it up but then I added that second sentence to kind of clarify that we're not just gonna be shutting off water without notice for no reason, that it's really the only time we do it is emergency repairs or when absolutely necessary. Like we make every attempt to let people know we're gonna be shutting off water. Yep, great. Okay, and then if you could go down to liability during inspection, Amy, I think that this is just basically saying you're not gonna be liable if there's- Yeah, this one, there were a lot of questions on it and really what this is doing is that's basically saying that the homeowner isn't liable if someone from the town comes in gets hurt on their property and it's because we weren't following our safety guidelines, the guidelines that we're held to from EPA, DEP, DLS, all the places that govern us. So this is the one that kind of protects you guys as the homeowner is from one of our employees doing something wrong. Yep, thank you. Okay, I didn't have any further things until the very last bit here before we get to the appendices. So keep going, keep going, keep going. Yep, sorry. So civil penalty, I appreciate this change just saying the amount allowed by Mass General Law. That was a, that sounds good. I believe it's $300 a day, but I think that's fine too, or $300 a day. Yeah, anyway. I'm not sure, but that also, I think this also allows us to be agile that heaven forbid, you know, MGL changes. We're not gonna have to go through and find every reference because it just references the state ranks. Yep, okay. So then we see the fee schedule. I'm assuming that this is going to be, this is now fully finances domains because we see some shifts there. And I have no, I don't think I had any further questions. Amy, is there anything that you feel like we did not touch on that you wanna make sure that we have discussed in this meeting? I think you hit the major points of the big things that we changed, so. Remember when I said we weren't gonna go line for line and then I just walked through it line for line. Thank you. Okay, great. So we have had a chance to look at this document. Paul, do you think that we're, I guess, I don't know who to ask this question to. Are we ready to accept these changes and move it? Yeah, I think so. I think, I don't think there are any outstanding issues. No. It's always useful, I think, to say, you know, to accept the changes and do another read. I'm sure we're all would like to do that. And the only question for the committee is do you wanna take it another look at it or you wanna just move it on to the full town council? It goes to GOL next. Oh, I see. Yeah, I think you should move it to GOL. Okay, great. All right, Athena, you can stop sharing. Thank you so much. I would just suggest that you allow, you know, sort of de minimis changes that we find other things that are not consequential, but we wanna change a word here, there, let that be allowed. Right. Common sense, yeah. Okay, so would I be moving to recommend the updated water regs to GOL, or to the town council pending approval by GOL? Okay. Well, pending review by GOL. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, yeah. That was almost terrible. Okay, so all right, are we comfortable if I move it folks? I guess we'll find out in a vote. All right, so I moved to recommend the updated water regs from, is there a date on these? 929, what are we? 15. Thank you, 915, 2022 to the town council pending recommendation from GOL. Second. I don't think I called the vote. I think, Anika, you have that on. Okay, so Andy. Yes. Shalini. Yes. Dorothy. Yes. Anna. Yeah. And yes, as well. All right, that's a unanimous pass there, Amy. Thank you so, so much. I know that this has been a bear and hey, but we've got updated regs since like the 70s now. This is next step, almost there. Thank you. Thank you so much. Truly. Thank you, Amy. Thanks. Next up to sewer, right? I know, I can't wait. We're talking gravity now. It gets even more complicated. I know. Yes. Okay, well we will see you again to talk sewer and then I'm happy to connect with you beforehand. I apologize for not talking strategy earlier, but maybe we can do that before we bring sewer. So a little cleaner. Thank you. Thank you. Have a good night, guys. Have a great night. Bye. Okay, so we're moving right along to discuss our upcoming meeting schedule. And excuse me for this, I'm not sure if we had suggestions in packet or if we are pulling a calendar. Lynn. Athena or Athena or Lynn? So we did do a, I'm sorry, trying to multitask here. So we did do a poll and then I talked with Athena earlier to make sure that we're meshing this committee schedule with other committees so that we're not two committee meetings on the same night. And the suggested meeting dates were that the next one would be October 6th with the idea that that at 630 with the idea that you would spend time there maybe moving on to sewer regulations and we discuss other things as well. Athena. That's not what we had. It isn't what we had. We had a meeting on September 29th hearing at Hope Church parking and I think street lights. We were not gonna meet on October 6th and then we were gonna have the hearing on Lincoln Avenue parking and maybe discussing the waste laws on October 13th. And then we had another hearing on street lights that wastes on October 27th. I believe that's what we're seeing that for. Yeah, great. Athena go ahead. So in order to hold a hearing on the 20th there were a couple of concerns about the 29th. The first is that CRC has a meeting at 430 which makes it tricky for a couple of us. The other is that in order to hold a public hearing on parking regulations we need to post that in the newspaper. It needs to be published in the newspaper for two weeks. The first is two weeks ahead of a hearing date which is today. So it's too late to post a hearing date. It's too late for the committee to decide to have a hearing on the 29th because we can't notice it in the newspaper in time. So that's why I suggested October 6th to Lynn. I will be absent. I'm not able to, that may not matter at all but I will not be able to attend on the 6th. And this would be for the Wicked Avenue Parking. No, this would be the Hope Church Parking. So let me just continue on because it was with Athena that we looked at this. I don't think the idea was that we would hold any hearings that night. In fact, then you would meet on October 13th and you would hold a hearing on the Hope Church Parking and also on Lincoln Avenue. And then your next meeting would this be right? Because it would be October 20th. Athena, does that sound right? I just pulled up the email that you shared. And we have October 6th is Water and Sewer. And I think we recognized that there were a couple of members that couldn't make it to this. There were only three members that could make it to this date. So we suggested the hearings, the parking hearings on October 13th when there would be more members available. And there is a concern about the 13th because CRC has a meeting at 4.30. So we might consider, I think we, that's why we had put seven o'clock for that meeting date. And then October 20th is your regularly scheduled second meeting in October. Johnny, did you have a question? So are we not meeting at all on the 29th? This is up for discussion. Okay. So that's up to the committee. Okay, and my other question was also what's going on the agenda and we're going to discuss that as well, right? Yes. So Athena, one of the possibilities is to meet on the 29th. And since no hearings are scheduled for the 6th and you've got two counselors who are not available on the 6th, maybe to meet on September 29th. Oh, but that's a CRC conflict, right? Right, CRC meets on the 29th. Jesus. Thank you. How many folks were able to, I know I'm away the 29th and so I just, as one of the street light people, I wanna make sure that it's on the agenda that Mandy's able to go and if she's got CRC, she might still be able to because I know Shalini splits it, but I just wanted to confirm that we'd have people on the 29th that if we move things to that date, I didn't see the results of the poll. I apologize. If you scroll down, it's Athena, it's on that same email. Oh, thank you. I'm sorry, Lynn. I got so excited by what was on there that I stopped. Great, so it's just me. So perfect. Y'all don't need me. What would we be discussing on the 29th? We wouldn't be doing street lights because Anna wouldn't be there. Mandy is fully competent to hold it down as long as she can make that date. That's the only thing is I'd wanna make if she's able to be there. And I am available on the 6th. I had a change, but I'm, Andy, your hands. Yeah, I guess that I'm a little bit uncertain as to what you're anticipating doing about the street lighting is, because we really haven't touched it or looked at it since it was referred. And I think it's a complex proposal with a lot in it. So I'd really like to know if we're going to put it on the agenda, what the intent is to accomplish that date. I don't think it'll get done in two minutes. You don't think it will, Anna? It's complex, like Andy said. I didn't raise my hand. I'm gonna stop. John. Are we going to be discussing about the TS? So I think let's first figure out the dates what are the meeting dates, and then let's go on to the topic of what are the topics that have been assigned to TSL, and then have a conversation around our priorities and staff time and all of that, and then figure out what are we discussing and when. And that will be, to me, that makes the most sense, because we haven't had a conversation as a group about the waste by-law, where is everyone on board with that? Is that the priority we want to discuss? I mean, obviously for me it is. And then the street lighting, similarly, we haven't discussed, is that a priority that we should be taking on right now or is it something that needs to happen in the future? I think that's a conversation that needs to happen. Dorothy? My question is to Shalini. Have you made your complete presentation? Are you satisfied that we have discussed your presentation on engagement sufficiently? Because I kind of thought we had more to do on that. And so if we met on the 29th, we certainly could talk about that and maybe do some discussion on waste and hold that you have a new topics to start later. Just a suggestion. Yeah, I mean, can I answer that? Yeah, that also needs to be, there were some unfinished things that need to be so that we can come down to a place where we can then offer it to the council as a recommendation. So yeah, that's another agenda item. Okay, so we should really get some, get the dates locked in first then on it. So I think that the thing about both the zero waste and the street lights is that you have a reporting deadline. And so I also would just say that we can talk about, we can talk about priorities, but ultimately the chair does set the agenda. And so I think that it's, Anika, this is your call in terms of what goes where. But even though it's not necessarily a vote out of TSO by those deadlines, there is a, we need to report back by the deadline. So we can't kick things too far down on official referrals is my understanding. And whenever I start talking in both Lynn and Andy, both raised their hands, I get a little nervous. So. Okay, Lynn, Lynn, please. I'm, I really want to reinforce the idea of deciding your meeting dates. And then I have a whole nother chart that I was just trying to put together that I can show you that gets at what is on TSO's list. And it has to get filled in then with, you know, when is it due and what has to happen, that kind of thing. But I think there needs to be agreement on your list and the priorities of your list. But I'd start with your meeting dates. Andy? Yeah, I agree to start with meeting dates. And I think the other thing that we need to do with things that we haven't discussed as a committee and even could start for just a few minutes tonight if there's time is to at least what is the process that we envision going forward and what have the sponsors done on each of these that will assist this committee with what the committee feels are going to be the needs. Right, when are you able to share your suggestions? Yes, why don't you finish up on your meeting dates? Okay, so it was the 29th that that page is gone. So the 29th is good for everyone aside from Anna. And then the next was, okay, thank you. Thank you, Athena. And then the next date is October 6th. I can be available on the 6th as well. So that would bring the three. I mean, it does look, I mean, we're just going to have to pull some dates. I mean, how do people feel about it looks like unless I'm reading wrong here that the 29th and the 13th cross where we would have the most of us available, we would be missing on one day, she's on another. And this is the 29th and then the 13th work or do people feel like we need or do folks feel like we need to have the six as well? Just to heads up CRC. Those are CRC meeting dates as well. Okay. The 29th and the 13th. Okay, so would that put us on? That's not to say that you can't have a meeting on those dates, but for Shalini and I, who are coming from one meeting to another, that makes it a little tricky if one is ending and the other is beginning right at six o'clock. So I would ask that or 630. So I would ask that you consider moving your meeting a little bit later. It also doesn't give us a break in between and it gives us a pretty long evening. So it's just a consideration. I'm not asking you not to schedule a meeting on those dates. Oh, no, absolutely. So, okay. What about, so you said the 20th, you did not have the six, CRC is meeting on the sixth or no? They're not meeting on the sixth. That's a regularly scheduled TSO date. Okay. So if we did the sixth and the 20th, I know you're on listed. I'm sorry. No, go ahead, please. Those are the two regularly scheduled TSO meeting dates. I would like us to stick with the, I understand not having all of them on the same CRC day, but crossing out the 929, putting in 1006, I'd like to keep 1013 for the public forum on parking on Hope Church and Lincoln Avenue and then gets to the non-CRC meeting dates. So that would be one that would be on both of them, but we would get rid of the 29th. So you'd meet on the sixth of October and the 13th of October. If the 13th is, would be inconvenient for both. Is it with the 13th, and excuse me for asking this for the 17th time, but for Athena and Sean, are you coming from CRC on the 13th? Okay, you are. At seven, if he can make it at seven, that would be great. Is everyone okay to do the hearings on the 13th at seven? And we would be in line to post them in time. Yes. And also, can I just say the sixth I had said was okay for me and I found out that I wasn't able to change something and it's a very important thing. So I may not be able to come, but I will confirm that within this week. But so far it is happening the event and I will be speaking there. So I will not be able to come on the sixth. So in that case, I can't tell you. You'll have a call. Yeah. Well, but Anika, did you say the sixth changed for you and you are? Yes. Okay, so then we'd still have a quorum. Shall I anyway? Okay, okay, perfect. Yeah. Okay, so we're doing hearings. So we are meeting the sixth. We are meeting the 13th. Does this impact the 27th? Are we meeting the 29th? Or is that a call? I'm just, are we meeting here? It looks like these are scheduled once a week. Are we meeting every other week where we could get, we do not need to meet on the 29th? And it's up. There's a lot in that, on that to-do list. I don't know. But if it's, if the 29th is a CRC day, I'm sorry, I can't keep those straight. Shalani's 29th is? Yeah. I could see. Yes. Okay, thanks, Athena. I could see skipping that one unless you want it. I don't know. I'm really torn. There's a lot on that list. Would it be helpful if we meet later? So we do seven o'clock as well. I'd leave that to Athena and Shalani to have feelings on because they're the ones impacted. You would have two weeks, you know. Shalani and Athena. Wait, are we, what are we doing? We're talking about the 29th. 27th. No, wait, we're doing, the regular one should be six and then 20th. So are we, could we do it on the 20th so that we're back on the regular, it would be the 20th, right? It's the regular one, yeah. Athena, is 20th the regular schedule for TSO? Yes, it is. So should we come back to then 13th and then 20th if we want to? Makes sense to get back in the cadence of it so that we kind of get on the trend of helping everybody up with CRC. I'm suggesting that we do a heavy October to do a little sense of catch up, which would mean October 6th, you'll have three people to carry on. October 13th, the hearing on parking for the two different things and October 20th. So that would get us onto our regular balance and would help us do a little bit of catch up. So can I affirm that the normal schedule? Oh, I'm sorry, Anika. No, go ahead, go ahead. The normal schedule would have been, and I'm sorry, I'll put this is not clicking in my head. It normally would have been the sixth and the 20th as our typical, right? First and third? Yes. Okay, thank you. So then, yeah, I would agree that the 20th getting us kind of closer back to that. I don't think it's fair for me to be like, yeah, let's pack October because I'm not on CRC and so I don't know. I'm fine with that. I'd like to feel more caught up, but my life is not as impacted by this decision as others. So we're looking at 6, 13 and 20 of October. Can we just side on that? Can I? And Athena? Can I ask? So what I have is that members are agreeing to meet on October 6th and 20 at 6.30 p.m. for your regularly scheduled meetings and to hold the parking hearings for both Hope Church and Lincoln Avenue on October 13th. We normally don't notice hearings at the same time so I would make it 7 and 7, 15. Is that correct? Yes, and I would also add that because you and Chalene are coming from CRC if any of the other days would be helpful to move to seven. So you do have the break that we do that. I'm sorry to ask for the 20th time if we're overlapping. The 6th and the 20th don't overlap. So it's just that one, the 13th that we would ask to have the parking hearing at seven. Okay. Was everyone okay with that? Chalene, your hand is... And we're doing this September 29th. I didn't catch that, Chalene. And we're also meeting on September 29th, right? No, I thought we cut that out because that would be two meetings where the CRC people do double duty. The 6th, the 13th, and the 20th of October, only one of those meetings, which is the 13th, which would be starting at seven, has them going from meeting to meeting. I think the 29th was important just because we've been waiting to bring the by-law, the week by-law get that conversation started. And there's a reason for that emphasis because in order to get the state help from Susan Waite we need to be on some sort of agreement and get things going because she's getting booked up. And then, so we already, like we were supposed to have this conversation long ago and then it's just keep, it keeps getting bumped forward. And so I would highly recommend that we meet. That would be at seven, sorry, Chalene, that'd be at seven p.m. Right. And if there's no public here, I mean, I think more for Athena. I'm happy to jump. I normally just walk out, but Athena can't jump out because she was hosting. So I think seven would be preferred. Okay, so seven p.m. for the 29th and 13th and 630 for the 6th and the 20th of October. We should be in an entirely different position at the end of October. Dorothy? I have a question to Athena, Lynn and Paul. This would be four meetings in a row for TSO and we've had good arguments presented as to why this would be good. So my question is to you, can you as staff handle this with all the other responsibilities that you have? I think it's a challenge to have meetings every week to have material in advance for you to be able to study it because you are dealing with some pretty heavy duty things. I mean, I think it's probably more reasonable to have three meetings in that timeframe to be able to manage the workload better. It's not my decision. I'm the least affected by this. So Athena? I think that we've, you know, if I may unless anyone doesn't agree, unless Athena doesn't, it seems like it would make sense that we go from the 6th through the 20th and that gives us some time to talk today to catch up and know what we're going to put on the agenda. And as Paul suggested, Paul just pointed out, we'll have time to be prepared and ready to go. Okay. Anna? I just wanted to circle back to what Shalini was saying earlier. If we're on a deadline with zero waste, Shalini, does it make sense to do, and I'm sorry this conversation doesn't seem to end, but does it make more sense to do 29th, 6th, 20th? So that zero waste can get in on that? No, okay. All right. Yeah. Oh, who said no to that? Lynn was shaking. I don't know why. I think we're starting, we've started to try to post the hearing for the 13th. So to give it up is a problem. Okay. That's true. Okay. So could we do 29th, 13th, 20th? Lynn, the hearings aren't posted yet. I was waiting for this conversation to take place before I finalized the notices in the newspaper. So that's not in stone for it. I mean, we could do 29th, 13th, 20th. Oh. Yeah. The problem with that, Shalini, is that that means two of the non-CRC meeting dates are the 6th and the 20th. And so you're eliminating, so you're just adding another CRC meeting date. And I think that, you know, Athena and you expressed concern about that. Can we stick with the 6th and the 20th and then just do a quick straw poll vote for the 29th or the 13th in terms of what people would prefer? And say like, we're going to do three meetings. It's either going to be the 29th, the 6th and the 20th or it's going to be the 6th, the 13th and the 20th. And those are the two things that were said. And so if folks, if folks would prefer the 29th, make some sort of wild gesture. Okay, thank you. I see one wild gesture. This is a new formal official way of voting. And then if people would prefer the 6th, 13th, 20th. All right, 13th. Oh my gosh, this is... Yeah, you got it, you got it. This is how we're doing votes from here on out. I will somehow make this the rules. All right, so we did have two votes for 6th, 13, 20. So let's just make sure that zero waste gets on on the 6th so that it's on the earlier end of things as well once we get into politics. Does that feel solid? I'm ready to move past this discussion. Good. Anika, I want to check with you though. That was just me trying to force a decision here. Oh, I mean, once we have the dates, that's great. Thank you. So now we have the dates and we can fill it in. Excellent. Fill in what's going on. So I have October 6th at 630, October 13th for the hearing at seven and 715 and October 20th at 630. Is that correct? Okay, great. We should wait. Okay, so I guess then we need to fill in our... Or what are we moving on to those dates? So did you have, I'm so sorry. Sorry. So we have, okay, so just so I'm clear, now everyone else is clear. Lynn, go ahead, Lynn. So in developing a transition from Dorothy to the new chair, whoever it was going to be, I did develop this chart and it has on it the list of all of the things on TSO's plate and wish list. And so I can pull that up. Thank you. Nor the other columns. On your plate, you always have staff appointments. You have to finalize the water bylaws. You actually just did that. You have finalized sewer bylaws. You have the Hope Church parking, which by the way is already overdue. You have the Lincoln Ave parking and you have universal refuse recycling and composting. And you have public ways proposed street lighting policy. You have outreach. And then the next, the rest of this list is list things that in the beginning of TSO's term, this time they got listed. One was speed limits, tack charge, impact of parking on other streets, rental bylaw, although I don't see that you have a role in that. If you're willing, I can take it off. The Boltwood garage study, this is basically in the hands of the town and then senior services. And it was never quite clear what the role of TSO was here. And then I think it goes on one more, two more. Capital project, oh no, the senior services part of capital projects. Streets and sidewalks, parks and recreation and town down relations. Those were just all part of brainstorming. So when you go back up here, these are things that actually either regularly happen with TSO right here or they have been referred to you. And it's a long list. And it is, what I also did was list who is the initial sponsor. I begin to highlight, if you will, because for instance, Anna has been doing the regulations here. Anika has a relationship with Hope Church. Dorothy has a relationship with Lincoln Ave. So is trying to identify somebody who could maybe take a lead on behalf of TSO. And then this just begins notes. What do you need to do? And other notes about when is this due back and referrals and where else do you need things? So the real issue, I think, is you all need to focus on these items right here that really, none of these are light. Although I think Hope Church can be resolved pretty easily and you're pretty well along on sewer you've done water. But you've got these two big ones. And I think you need to talk about how are you gonna approach them? Don't even think about setting hearing dates at this point. Just how are you gonna approach them? Athena has her hand up and I've said enough. Anika, if I might make a suggestion. Please. I think that it might not be worth the committee's time this evening to try and set agendas as a committee for the next three meeting dates. In the past, Lynn and Paul and I have met with the TSO chair to help figure out what's ready from the town and what can be put on the next TSO agenda. I think the three of us would be willing to do that again. This time, I think it's also helpful to know that there are some members who want things to be taken up earlier than others. So you can consider that when you're setting the next agenda. So that way we don't have a long discussion about what goes on with each agenda because that is essentially the chair's role. Okay. That's helpful. Thank you. I would appreciate that. Okay. With that, we were moving on to town manager appointments. Shawnee, sorry, Shawnee. Yeah. So I think like Athena said for general items on the agenda, it's fine that you will be setting it with Athena and Paul. But I think there's certain things that when they're coming through sponsors, like the composting thing came from Andy and all of us. And then the lighting came from Anna and Mandy Jo. I think it's important for the committee to feel like that is a priority. To, I mean, it is taking up a lot of our time. We're not just coming and voting. Like even, I mean, of course the sponsors have the bigger responsibility of doing the bulk of research and work and whatnot. But as a committee, we're still responsible for looking up stuff, reading the materials, showing up. And then there's a staff time. We're already told that staff is so stretched thin. And so I think it's important that when we are, when sponsors are bringing in that we talk about it as a group and hear from the staff as well, that's a priority. And like when in the timeline does that feature? So right now there are two items that were brought by sponsors. And I suggest that we talk about it, like where and how do those feature and given the staff time, given our time. Seeing as the meeting would be with staff, are you comfortable to send an email on what exactly you're talking about to make sure that they are considered? Because this is more, I think of just coming into chair and meeting and making sure that there will be a flow to this and we're actually, especially since we're packing in so much to my understanding in October that we're getting it done not overlooking the importance or who is involved. Wait, can you say that again? Sorry, I didn't understand that. I understand that, unless maybe I'm misunderstanding you, it seems it sounds like you're wanting to be very considerate of staff time. And our time. And our, yeah, so coming into meeting with Lynn and Paul and Athena and getting in the brush if I wouldn't like all of this would be considered. So I'm just not sure if your question is in concern that are you concerned that something would be left out that you're viewing as important or wouldn't get on agenda. So as I was asking, are you comfortable to send it to send what the top concerns are in an email? And then this could be communicated. So we make sure that everyone is aware of what's going on and nothing is left out. No, my concern is the opposite that we're putting too many things in without us as a group deciding what is the most, like what are we hearing from residents or like I'm getting so many emails from residents about speeding, about spot holes, roads, safety and we have all those other things. So where does street lighting, for example, feature within that as a group have you talked about that? And same thing like we came in very strongly with composting, the bylaw for waste and composting but is that acceptable for the committee that you work on that? And so that, I guess we've never had a process for prioritizing what we are doing in TSO. And so that's what I'm just suggesting that we have this whole list of items. Are we doing all of them simultaneously or are we prioritizing certain things that are gonna happen in a certain order? And we haven't had a discussion as a group. Anna? I did drop and raise to let Andy go before me. Andy? I guess that I have two things to say. One is from my perspective as somebody who's a cosponsor of one of the two that we're talking about and the other is finance committee chair. So hitting them in order. It's been kind of awkward for me to talk with my fellow cosponsors and to start thinking about what are the issues and how do we develop this without knowing that I'm also a member of TSO but respecting TSO to not at least let you know what's going on and make sure that we're going in a direction that you're comfortable with and you feel that we as sponsors are not overstepping our role as members of TSO. So it's kind of has an awkwardness to it right now. We have been having discussions and meetings to try and better understand the issues that need to be resolved to come up with a workable waste hauling plan that meets the goals that we were talking about. So that's kind of a rat. The other thing is that eventually this does need to come back to the finance committee. Finance committee hasn't really talked about it because as you probably know, we're spending an awful lot of time talking about library right now but eventually we have to get back to it. And I think that in thinking it through myself and talking with our staff support who's the finance director, I think that we were kind of assuming on both of these that we would get some direction out of TSO before taking it to finance because finance really is not to deal with policy of what is in them but to start with what is being conceived of and what are the financial consequences. And the other thing about finance, I think that it's been very clear is that we need to be thinking about staff time to develop staff time once it's implemented to actually implement it. And staff as well as other costs and how that fits in with the budget pressures that are on the town because if there's something that is gonna involve a substantial expense to implement, it needs, we need to have an idea of what it is that is the cost of implementation but I hate to have finance committee start with that as opposed to at least getting some direction from TSO as to where it's going for getting there. So that's my comments. Thank you. Ana, did you have something as well? No, I'm gonna let it go. Okay, so Andy, just to follow up with your comments, well, is there anything that I'm not sure of Athena if you're able to pull up that or Lynn if you're able to pull up your suggestions for starting, is there anything that you, and it just with finance field that would be the most helpful for you to have pushed up on and same for each other. Well, I think that Shalini has already touched on the what's the most urgent question for universal recycling, refuse, composting and that is that there is the opportunity because we recognize the staff problems of going to the State Department of Environmental Protection and they have staff who are available to assist local communities which we have to apply to get the time of the staff and in doing that, there needs to be clarity about the issues that you're asking for assistance from DEP on because it affects the kind of staff assistance category that it falls under and which is one of the technical aspects to it. And as Shalini said, there is some time pressure because there are other towns that are also looking at issues that fall under this category and so we'll be competing for Susan and Wade's time. Susan is the current regional assistance staff person for DEP who would be the one who would provide the help. Her predecessor was the one who assisted us with that last round of this discussion. So what Shalini and I and what our other co-sponsors have been doing is just trying to understand what are the critical issues. We did have conversation with Paul and Guilford to just make sure that we understood but what their issues are and you're trying to touch base and move it forward that I would be very uncomfortable actually getting to the point of asking for DEP assistance to study issues without our committee side having been involved and that's that awkwardness piece that I was talking about that played these two roles at the same time, just created it. Okay. Are there any other thoughts on especially the highlighted agendas? Dorothy? Streets and sidewalks, that never goes away. That is a constant unhappiness from people in town all over town, various districts and we have to keep a focus on that. And I don't know, I mean, I know the town is working very hard, I know things are happening but a lot of things are not happening in places where people want it and maybe there's additional monies to be had, I don't know, but I just know that we have to do more because our constituents want more. Anna, thank you Dorothy, Anna. So I think the perpetual question there is what is the role of this committee in that question? And I'm often challenged by that Dorothy and I think Paul might have something more insightful to say but I know that that's an issue and I am not convinced that this committee has the ability to impact it the way that it needs impacting. And so I think that's my concern is when we look at potential agenda topics we also need to ask the question of what is within the scope and purview and role of TSO in navigating it. And that's not to say there isn't one but for that issue I know I've struggled because I don't necessarily think that we as a committee can move the needle on that particular thing. But I'll let Paul maybe address this differently. Paul. Well, actually I just have a different suggestion on how to move forward on this. This is a conversation on a long time just about setting an agenda. So, but I can, Shalini goes ahead of me. Okay. No Paul go ahead, I can... So what I was gonna suggest is that you've got three meetings that you've scheduled why don't we start placing agenda items on those meetings? The first thing we have to do is pick up when are you gonna have the public hearing? That's important to make a decision on tonight. From that decision we'll be able to notice the public hearings. We have two and then also you'll know we're gonna have to carve out time on that day for the public hearing and then probably the next meeting to have a discussion about that topic. And then you've got a couple other referrals you've got the street lights and the composting that you also have to factor in. So, I think I might disagree with Lynn on this. I think maybe the first step is to schedule the public, place your public hearings on your schedule and then see what flows from that. The hearings are scheduled for the 13th. Okay. They agreed on that earlier. Okay, you've got that. So you know the next, you know, in the 20th you're gonna have to have time if you, at least for Lincoln you'll know you have another two meeting topic at least. Right? So the question is what is going to happen on the sixth which is probably preparation for the 13th public hearing. And you probably can get another topic and that could be the composting or street lights is a present, it's a first presentation. Hello. Athena, how would you schedule this up? That's what I would ask. I think that the best move, like I said earlier is for members to express their concerns to the chair and the chair to set the agendas and not to do this in committee. I think there's some outstanding things like Lynn pointed out that referrals that need attention but I can understand that members' concerns about wanting to secure the DEP staff support in a timely manner. So, but I think that's something that the chair can take into consideration when she sets the agenda. Yeah, I agree, especially just within this transition and getting acclimated with setting the agendas taking into account what everyone said. I think that we should move with Athena's suggestion and come back and make sure that everyone, come back with a plan and make sure that everyone is comfortable with it. Dorothy. So Paul said some things about the Lincoln Avenue parking which were a little different from some things Lynn had said in that originally Lynn said we would have the hearing and then we would then as a TSO as a committee would then discuss and that there was certainly a possibility of reaching agreement in that one meeting. Partly, if the thought is preparing for the hearing on the sixth, having the hearing in the 13th and then deciding on the 20th, how can we, in terms of having staff present and having a Guilford-Moring present for all three of those meetings, I realize this is the details that you'll fix and think of in the agenda. I'm just bringing up that as something to think about. Okay, thank you. And Shalini. Yeah, again, I'm still not satisfied with where we are going. I agree with the usual items that the chair can do it, but as a committee we need to decide together what I'll be prioritizing. And I haven't understood what is our system for prioritizing in this committee. And so I'm not comfortable with individually sending emails to Anika and then she deciding or however it's gonna happen because it just doesn't feel transparent to me that we're not discussed. Like it's to me, it's just not clear. Like can anyone just come up with any idea and say, hey, I wanna discuss this and then we all have to discuss that? Like I wanna hear from everyone, like where are we on different topics? And like I can see that some are like hope church has to be done, Lincoln has to be done, it's already there. But we haven't yet as a committee, I mean, I think we're all on board with the composting but we haven't yet agreed that that's a priority for this committee. We haven't agreed with street lighting if that's what our residents are wanting and if that's a priority for our committee. Senior services, are we doing anything about that? Speed limits, that's one that I'm hearing a lot. So in terms of like, I know we are not responsible for it for sidewalks and speed limits but we are hearing a lot of concerns. So maybe is that something that we could be, is there a way to assess that Paul? Like there's certain streets where do they need to be changed and can they be changed or do they need signs or like how do we, do we play a role in that at all in getting signs put for speed limits or enforcing some of, especially when it's out on Tom Street. So how can we get that on the agenda? Go to under your question but if also this we could get clarity on this some of the impression that if it's voted to be referred then that does put it on the priority list. That's what I was gonna say, the exact same thing. So when things are referred to TSO by the council that means it goes on our list to handle. That would be one way of getting things on our to-do list. I think the things that we as TSO come up with that we wanna handle on our own that's where we can have that prioritization conversation but the council votes to refer things to TSO saying TSO you are to handle this. That's why we refer things. So we can't just bump stuff that was referred to us. It's the other items that we bring forward like the like sidewalks, like speed limits like the engagement plan. Those are things that we are choosing to do that we then need to add in and to the things that are assigned to us by the council. That's my understanding. Clarification, yeah. So clarification about that Lynn. So when I was starting to ask questions at the council meeting about a particular issue and I was told that we will have an opportunity in the TSO to come together and then have that conversation there. And so when it's sent to us, I don't think it means that we have to in my understanding is that it's sent to us to them as a TSO to describe what we wanna do. And it's not like we shouldn't do it but it's more like where do we, but that's it's not like we shouldn't deal with it because obviously it's an important issue that has come to councilor's attention. But we get to decide as a committee where is the finance, where is the time staff, staff time, where is our time and where do we put it? So I'm not saying we should bump it off but can we prioritize that in terms of timing? And that's the discussion that I'm saying we need to have collectively. I know it's awkward because it's individual but it's not about individual. It's really about the town and what is the focus? What is the highest needs of our town, the residency environment? And then how do we collectively decide that? I think first and foremost, you have to deal with items that are referred to you. That has to be at the top of your list. How you deal with an item referred to you is a different question. You may look at an item and after spending considerable amounts of time, decide now this is not something we should continue but you still have to come back to the council with a recommendation. And so the items that are on shaded at this point are all on your referral list. And as much as I agree that things like condition of streets and speeds limits I hear about from constituents every day, I agree with Anna. It's not clear to me what the role of this committee is in terms of changing how we presently do that. We've gone through an extraordinary process of study and recommendation on which streets are most at risk, et cetera. So you've got to focus on the ones that have been referred and on the appointments. And then you can get to some of the others. Andy, you may have other opinion. I don't have another opinion. I was just gonna add one thing on the speed limits. I think that there are actions that the council can take because of statutory authority or statutory or permission that we can seek and as a town so that they become policy issues. To understand that, we have to get back into where the first TSO was. Actually, this wasn't even TSO was CRC in the first year of the council. And this is an issue that has gone on forever because nobody ever digs into it. But in the first year that we were a council after town meeting was dissolved, Gabe Jing, whose police department and Jason Schales from DPW came and made a very informative presentation about the whole policy of how you set speed limits, what the authority of the town is, where the limits are in that authority. And we then never got to it. And then it got transferred to TSO and TSO never got to it. So this has been hanging for a long time. And at some point, the only way we're gonna grab hold of the speed limit is to have that presentation made again and then start the discussion. Is this a presentation that could be pulled and for a future meeting? It would have to be planned because you'd have to ask the staff if they're willing and available. I meant, so let me just be clear. Is this something, is this a recording? Was this presentation recorded? I, at this point, I don't know. It was a very early CRC meeting and I don't know what recordings are available from that period in time. Was that someone? No. Is there, are there any other questions or comments regarding future agendas? Okay. So with this, we have quite a few appointments. I am not sure if we need to go through them one individually. And let's focus on, I can make a motion. Yes, please. Wait, I can make a motion once I get my email up in. Athena, I worked so hard and yours is just so good. All right, him. Well, first off, I guess before I make the motion, we're basically kind of consent agendaing this, just so folks know. So if there are any concerns, now would be the time to interrupt me. Paul. So I just wanted to note that I recently, just a few minutes ago, sent you an updated email on the Community Preservation Act Committee appointments, which adds the appointments from the Conservation Commission and Planning Board. That committee, they get to appointment last night the Conservation Commission made their appointment. So there are two additional names that would have to be under the less than 48-hour rule. I think these are noncontroversial because they're not ones that we go to these committees and ask them who they would like to appoint. So if you are able to take that up tonight, then it would go to the council on Monday. I can be ready if, once again, I can have 30 seconds. All right. Okay. So I'm gonna make a monster motion. Right. Okay. I'm seeing no, I'm hearing no opposition. Not. All righty. Here we go. Paul, your hand's still up. Did you have another? Did you have another? Oh, I'm sorry. No. Okay. I'm just making sure. No. Not the planning borax, the planning board. Okay. So I, all right. Wait, now I'm getting all nervous. Okay. I moved to recommend the town council approve the following town manager appointments. Here they come. Alexander whore and Cameron Mark Marcoch Marcoch to the conservation commission for terms to expire June 30th, 2025. Nancy Ratner to the local historic district commission for a term to expire June 30th, 2024. Steven Bloom to the local historic district commission for a term to expire June 30th, 2023. Britt Crow Miller to the public shade tree committee for a term to expire June 30th, 2025. Andrew McDougal to the recreation commission for a term to expire June 30th, 2025. To the community preservation act committee for terms to expire June 30th, 2023. Matt Cain to represent the recreation commission. Dave Williams to present the housing authority. Michelle lab to represent the conservation commission and Andrew McDougal to represent the planning board. Jeanne Horrigan to the council of aging for a term to expire June 30th, 2025. Anne Burton to the council on aging for a term to expire June 30th, 2023. Terry Holtz, Laurie Friedman and Phil Cutting to the public arts commission for a term to expire June 30th, 2025. Lisa Cain and Robert Brannon to the public arts commission for a term to expire June 30th, 2024. Shoshana King to the public arts commission for a term to expire June 30th, 2023. Anastasia Ardonias to the residents advisory committee for a term to expire June 30th, 2024. And Meg Gage to the residents advisory committee to a term for a term to expire June 30th, 2023. Oh my God, someone second me please. That was a lot. Second. Thank you. That was a lot. Andy. Yeah, I just have a question kind of for the community and kind of for Paul. Since there's so many nominees and this isn't, I don't want to make this an issue that pertains to the particular one, but there is one person who's being nominated for committee who's the spouse of a counselor. And I was wondering if we have any, there are two of them, if we have any policy concerns or process for dealing with the general issue. Yeah, if I can respond to that, Anika. Yeah, so it is a consideration that we talked about with the residents advisory committee representative on both situations. So we have Steve Bloom for the local historic district commission who is married to counselor Tom and we have Alexander Lee for who is for the conservation commission who is married, I believe married to counselor Rooney. So as we talked about it internally with the people who are on the interview team, the basic consensus was it's a small town. There's a lot of people who are gonna be involved. You don't get disqualified because you're married or engaged or connected to someone else. And these people were eminently qualified and clearly their qualifications speak for themselves in a sense of what they bring to the table. So I think that was, I figured it would be something that the council would wanna think about. I mean, you would have to say we don't want to appoint these folks. If that's a big concern of yours, but I think we do have counselors who have partners they're married to someone who serves on other boards. It already happens in many ways. So, and the public has approved it in some ways by electing people who are married to each other. I see counselor Pam with her hand up. I wanted to say that my husband was a treasurer on the library trustees before I ran for town council. Steve Bloom was instrumental in the local historic district way before his wife considered running for town council. So if you said that somebody who is the spouse of a town council couldn't be on a committee, you could then also say somebody whose spouse or partner is active in town would prevent someone from running for town council. I mean, it would go both ways. So I think the basic sentence that you said was it's a small town. And it has just people who are active tend to often are related or married to or live with people who are active. Much to their chagrin sometimes I'm sure. Well, thank you Andy for pointing that out. I think it is important to kind of still be aware of committee make-ups and just formation of committees in general. If I may add, it may, you know, we just have to be alert to in these situations to conflict of interest and disclosures and all those types of things. If this is, it's the council approves these appointments. And then Paul, if I may ask, was that something that was already considered or looked over conflict of interest? Yeah, I don't think there's a conflict of interest by default, it's just in a situational thing. If there's something that, you know, but that happens fairly frequently with everybody who serves on any kind of board or committee. So I just concluded, I appreciate the comments. I mean, the only thing that I thought about was if there was a committee that was making a recommendation to the council, then would we be in an awkward position? I'm not sure that the committees involved here at that classification because they don't involve council action that follows the committee action. So it was a general question, not specific to any situation current. Are there any other questions or comments before we call a vote? Okay. Dorothy. Yes. Andy. Yes. Shalini. Yes. Anna. Yes. And I'm, yes as well. Okay, so we are moving into public comment. I cannot see on my end for some reason, if we have anyone with us, but if anyone else, and Athena, Ken, if you're with us, thank you. If you'd like to make comment, could you raise your hand? No one can? They left. They're gone? Yep, they're gone. We'll shake it up, make it a little more vibrant next time. Okay, so are they, oh, we're going into our minutes. Has everyone had a chance to look them over? Okay. I move that we approve the minutes. Thank you. Dorothy, is there a second? Second. Thank you. Okay. So any questions, comments about that are good. All right, Shalini. Yes. Andy. Yes. Anna. Yes. Yes, Dorothy. Yes. Okay. All right, we're moving. Now, were there any announcements? Does anyone have an announcement? Any announcements? Dorothy, stand up. Dorothy. Okay, it's not an announcement, but I just want to say that I'm very happy that we have a new chair and a new vice chair and we have great support from the town. And I think you may not be aware, Anika, but Athena does the minutes, which helps a lot when you have to do your report. And the working together on the agenda with Paul and Lynn and Athena, it's a good process. So I also want to compliment Anna on her reading of that long motion. I think that it's great. And I just want to tell you, in a texting that I was having with Darcy Dumont, she said, she thinks every town counselor should be a chair for a period of time, just as part of the whole educational process. And so I just want to congratulate Anika for being elected chair, Anna was being elected vice chair and we have a lot to do, but I think that we're going to get it done. So congratulations. Okay, well, thank you. And yes, I'm so grateful for all of you here, Lynn, Paula, and absolutely, Athena, I don't know that my head would be straight with town council, anything if it wasn't for Athena. So thank you so much for that. I have a quick little announcement for anyone who had not had a chance to see the ancestral bridges exhibit at the Amherst History Museum that will be extended through November 5th on Saturdays only. And so we have added a few different artifacts to the exhibit. And I think as most know, these include some of the first Black and Afro-Indigenous families of Amherst that helped facilitate a smooth functioning of commerce and institutional education. We have individuals who provided living quarters for many who were otherwise denied, including Black people from the South. And one prominent internationally acclaimed jazz musician who was received the Court of King Farouk in Egypt. There's also a special feature by a community member, Dr. Shirley Jackson Whitaker, who has a really great campaign called Toe To Vote. So I would encourage anyone who hasn't seen it to visit. It's also facilitated by Deborah Burgess, who also is the curator of dosage for the Civil War tablet exhibit at the Bang Center. And in that Saturdays, 11 a.m. through 3 p.m. And so that's about it. There were no other, or do we have a preview for our next agenda or is that considered what we've gone through and the meetings that are coming up? Okay, and we have covered the issues on the last appointments in 48 hours. Okay, so we can adjourn. Do we need a motion for that? Or okay, I bid you all a great night. Thank you, congratulations. Thank you, and thank you for being patient when we throw this first meeting. Thank you. Bye. Thank you.