 Yup, and welcome back to Talking Knicks. Free agency happened. We were live with you guys last week. We got the Julius Randall news at the end. A lot more happened after that. And I think we might have some varying opinions whether what happened after that was a good thing or a bad thing. The Knicks signed six free agents. We're gonna talk all about them. What it means, what could the rotation look like? Minutes, are we gonna win the title? Probably. Yup. You know. But hey. The Vegas title. What? I am joined by Tom Piccolo, Kenny Poon, and the return of the Mack, Big Baby David. Let's talk Knicks. Letting the actual sound there. Hey, YouTube. We're doing our first live broadcast. Well, we did the lottery balls live, but we're gonna start trying to do the episodes live. Chat's going right now. Got a Laker shout out. What up? Griffie422, I see you. How we doing, everyone? Happy Fourth of July freak end. I was realizing today, this was weird. Fourth of July on a Thursday is dangerous. That's a good way to lose about five days real quick. Let's, we'll go around the horn. Big Baby David, how was your fourth? How you doing, brother? Well, fourth was good. Had, you know, a couple of different barbecues because, you know, turned like a four-day weekend. And then, yeah, just thought about the Knicks a lot. That's not good. That's a little positivity to start. Happy Fourth, Dave. Kenny Poon, how you doing, brother? I'm doing good. I'm doing good. I've actually, I took Thursday and Friday of last week off, and then I only worked Wednesday this past week. So I, I didn't work a lot this last week, and I had a nice fourth, hung out with Tom, almost got in a fight with some little kids, and now I'm here, living the dream. Actually, I saw, I saw one comment in the YouTube thing that says, what up nerds? And I don't know if that was a reference to Stranger Things, because I watched the entirety of Stranger Things as well. Oh, that's what I did. There you go. I forgot that. No, no spoilers. Wow, we got some thunder. We got some Thunder fans in the chat. We've got Nystrom with a shout out. Thanks, brother. And Tommy Piccolo, our anchor, four by 400 meter champion of the world. Is that still true, Tom? That's still true, Jake. I can still crank out those 400s. Hey guys, I'm doing well. I had a good fourth because I didn't think of a Knicks at all. So that was nice. I got out, I hit the links, took a lot of golf shots. In those 18 holes, so I've got my money's worth. And yeah, Kenny wasn't exaggerating. We did almost fight some teenagers. Not actually fight. You know how it is. No, I don't. We don't know how it is. Because our words exchanged. We don't need to talk about it either. Let's talk about the Knicks. Geez. Sounds like you guys fought some teenagers. So that's worrisome if you're those teenagers. I was going to say we're sorry, but we're not. I'm glad. I'm glad we took you down. That's the new Knicks attitude. We're dogs. That's the new phrase everyone keeps saying about our free agents, which I wish they were saying they were great at basketball, but we'll take it. We're dogs. Boys, when we were last here, things were extremely somber. Durant leaked out that super well-made Instagram post about him going to Brooklyn, which was just biggie. So they had, how much time did they have to make that? Anyways, and we were waiting. We were waiting. We heard we were in talks with Reggie Bullock. There's a lot of slander around that. Turned out we signed him. And then Julius Randall. We end up signing six guys. Taj Gibson, Bobby Portis, Ellington. We keep forgetting Ellington. Alfred Payton. We signed a one through five and a six man off the bench. They're all rotation guys. It's not, I promised people last year on talking Nix that the sad times were over and I was wrong. Well, we'll see. We'll see. We've got these dogs. I want to, let's go reverse around the horn. Tom Piccolo, where are you at with how everything played out in the Nix free agency? Man, I'm still kind of coming to terms with it. I didn't get too high or too low on this. I didn't have huge expectations, I think, coming into it. But as the signings kept coming in, I guess it got a little darker and darker just because the Nix fan base, we were hoping for some brighter lights, some bigger names. But at the end of the day, when the contracts came out, you got to be happy with what Perry was able to do in terms of all the team options. They kept flexibility going forward. I was pretty happy with that. Julius Randall was the only one signed to multiple years, which is nice. He's the one with the most upside, so that makes sense. I guess the major criticism that came from most of Nix Twitter and the media was that the Nix weren't trying to take on bad money in exchange for assets. But then you look at free agency and there were only two contracts that fit that bill. So it's tough to kill the Nix too much for not taking on Iguodala or the second one that's escaping my mind right now. But yeah, I don't know. I'm doing it hard. Hardly. Thank you, yeah. And so I guess in all, I'm feeling pretty neutral about this. I'm not pumped to watch another season of, you know, it'll be not playoff basketball. But in my, that's my expectation. But I'm curious to hear what you guys think. I'm coming out pretty neutral here, which I know is a boring first take. Get him, Kenny. Get him. I mean, I think no matter how you slice it, it was a disappointing free agency after everything that we heard throughout the year about Kevin Durand, about Kyrie Irving, the late rumors about Kawhi Leonard, all that stuff. And then to come out with none of those guys, no matter what, that's disappointing. But, you know, I've kind of come to terms with the fact that, you know, each of these players, they're going to do their own thing. And there was only a handful of players that we had an option on, or that we were rumored to be possibly getting. And, you know, we didn't get them. And 29 other teams in the NBA could say the same thing. So it's disappointing, but it's kind of the way the NBA is. And I'm not, I don't hate the way that the team moved forward from that. They got a bunch of actual NBA players question how much star power they have there. I think Julius Randall's a good player. Everyone else is kind of a role player. Bobby Port is still very young. Alfred Payton is still very young. Julius Randall is still very young. So all of these guys have some upside. And all of them are also on reasonable contracts. So, you know, you have a lot of, like Tom said, you have a lot of flexibility with this in terms of, you know, you can compile these pieces and trade them. You can keep them. You can, you know, if they don't work out and you don't trade them, you can cut bait next year and use that extra money to get someone else and try again. So it's all about just keeping their options open going forward. And like you said, you know, they've got a lot of dogs, a lot of hardworking guys. And hopefully they're all talking about, you know, 90s Knicks, the Charles Oakley, Patrick Ewing Knicks and how they're all going to work hard. So, you know, at the very least, we might get to see some fight out of these Knicks. And, you know, I'm not going to say it's a likelihood, but there's an outside shot that this team out performs expectations and ends up, you know, in the playoff race. Again, not going to expect that, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. BBD, bring it. Yes, I mean, goes to that saying, but obviously we're disappointed when we don't get Katie, Kyrie, Kawhi, anybody, not that I ever thought Kawhi was possible, but a name that came to my head. But yeah, the most frustrating part about that is the not offering Katie and Max, which I don't think we've just mentioned yet, and canceling the meeting with Kawhi and bragging about it. Jake, it was your tweet that got me going. But all things considered, though, like, if you look at each signing, none of them are overpays. They're all quality players. And with the team options and stuff attached, any of these guys can be flipped for like late first or a few seconds or something anyway at either of the next two trade deadlines. Yeah, it's a long-term flexibility. I would have rather taken on a bad contract like people are saying, but we didn't see that many moves like that, like Tom said, because who knows, maybe the Warriors didn't even offer, wouldn't have even offered the Iggy situation to us. The only guy left is like maybe Drogic. So like in a vacuum, but I've rather like skipped the Portis signing and traded for a bad contract to get a pick. Yeah, but overall, I'm like really warming up to him actually after looking at his Twitter and stuff or after you sending in his tweets. But yeah, like the fact that I'm overall pretty neutral on the offseason sort of like Tom like says a lot to have the Knicks recovered from the disaster situation of no marquee guys coming. Yeah, neutral is definitely a step up there. And Jake, I kind of want to get you going down that Kawhi route a little bit because we saw how it played out last night or I guess two nights ago now that Kawhi orchestrated his way to getting Paul George to finagle his way out of his contract in OKC to go to the Clippers. And so I'm wondering how we're feeling about, you know, the cancelling of that meeting like would it have been in the realm of possibility to get Paul George to come to the Knicks? And like would that have been even something that we saw the Monster Hall to OKC pulled? Is that something we wouldn't even wanted to offer? You know, part of me thinks it's a no brainer if you actually think Paul George in Kawhi is on the table. But that's also completely mortgaging your future and goes against a lot of what Mills and Perry have said. So Jake, what are you thinking about that? Now that you've had a little bit of time to digest. Yeah, like I said, I was running hot for a while. When the first free agent signings came out and we signed three power forwards, I was in a tight spot. When I heard we didn't offer Durant the Max, I was heartbroken for a minute. And I just had this realization where I was like, and I get the risk involved in all of that. But like it came off so like boyfriend who just got dumped and was like, well, I was going to dump her. So I'm glad. I'm glad Kevin Durant's not coming here. So that was bizarre. I was having some tough Dolan moments. And then the Kawhi meeting leaked out that they turned it down. And I was pretty firm on that. And I still am. It's not over the top because again, there's no real belief Kawhi was coming. You talked about that haul that the Clippers gave up. And it's essentially for two players. It's one of the bigger hauls in NBA history, but they got Paul George and Kawhi Leonard. So I think we'd be lying to ourselves as Nix fans saying that, I don't think we'd really give the picks up for that. We'd kill for that. We signed Alfred Payton instead. So I think we'd be lying to ourselves if we were saying we weren't interested in that. Who knows? And this is where things get tricky. Like I'd like to assume that the Nix knew and word was out throughout the league that Kawhi was trying to get PG to team up with them. And maybe the Nix looked into that and they got shot down. I don't know. I was still firm on the stance. And it's getting away from some of the bigger things and playing good basketball, which we should be hoping for. I don't know, man. I just think you take a meeting with the best player in the league who just won the NBA title. Even if there's not much going on there, shake some hands. Maybe he signed a one-in-one. And he becomes a free agent later. And you guys had a great meeting in the relationships there. I don't know. Is that too basic? Is that too like me being from the electrical supply and distribution industry previously? Whereas you don't want to burn any bridges. Is it too... Am I overthinking it? Overthinking it? So I want to say there was no chance that Kawhi was coming to the Nix. And the reports that I've seen since then are... It was either like... I've even heard that the Lakers were out. So it was either the Clippers were going to get Paul George and Kawhi or Kawhi was going to go back to Toronto. Those were the two options. And you see what happens when people wait when you look at what the Lakers did. Because the Lakers waited to spend that money and then they ended up with... Danny Green I think was a good signing. Some people think he was overpaid. Who knows. But they didn't end up with much to surround A.D. and LeBron James with because they waited for this meeting. And I know you can say that the Nix aren't competing for anything. So what does it matter? But like if they have these guys that they think that they're going to bring into the organization. It's going to make their organization better. It's going to help their young players develop. And they think that there's no chance of them getting Kawhi Leonard. Then I say go for it. Just follow your plan and do the smart thing rather than having these big dreams with a very limited opportunity for success. And I think there was a zero percent chance that we're going to get Kawhi. I think there's a zero percent chance that we get Kawhi in the future. So I think that the smart move was to just move forward and get the players that they wanted. That's probably right. It's kind of a bummer that we're conceding that there was a zero percent chance to get Kawhi even though we would have had space and even the assets to bring a second superstar like Paul George over. But I guess I mean that's where it comes in like the whole question of infrastructure and front office competence and all of that. Just like the perception of the Knicks versus the perception of the Lakers. And if I can just jump back in one second. I think part of the big thing was it was Paul Georgian and Kawhi Leonard going home. Right. So I think that's that was part of the reason that they both went back to LA. So that's I don't I don't know that it had anything to do with the Knicks situation. I think it was more that's where they wanted to go. And if that wasn't going to work. Kawhi was going to stay where he was. Where he just. I think they were open to getting Paul George to Toronto also. Right. I think that that's at least what they're saying. Yeah. I think Ramona said that. Yeah. Because they had that like a move a move lined up for George and Westbrook to end up there or something. But that probably would have gotten all weird with the contracts and stuff. But by the way what what a nuke that was when when that came out Paul George and Kawhi going to clear is the NBA has it figured out man. I saw Simmons tweeted out like all the star players that have changed teams in like the calendar year. And it's insane. It the player movement is insane. And I don't know. I think I don't want to get too much in the weeds about this because I don't know. You can flip flop and say us take the media. We weren't getting Kawhi. Ken I think you were kind of all over that. And if you're an honest Knicks fan that's the truth. I want to talk about more about the guys we brought in. I want to get to that too. But real quick there's just one little tangential thing that that kind of was a ripple effect from from the quite move. And that was that these rumors now that Russell Westbrook is going to be moved. And there have been a lot of rumors flying around that the Knicks you know they're and they're looking for a point guard looking for to make a splash with that with a you know star with a superstar. I think a lot of smart analysts have said that it doesn't make any sense for the Knicks to bring in Russell Westbrook. And I mean he'll be making just an absurd amount of money for the next five years on that Supermax contract. I'm sure you guys agree with me that the Knicks should not make a move for Russell Westbrook. Do you even think that's a possibility at this point? I do not. And I had a conversation with someone on Twitter where I said that it just doesn't make any sense. I think Russ has another one or two years left before he starts a precipitous decline just because everything he does is based on athleticism. And it will take at least probably two years to get him someone to play with just because we either have to trade for someone and give up a bunch of our assets after giving up assets to get him or would have to get someone in free agency and there's just not a lot of people that are free agents this upcoming season or after this season. So I don't think it makes sense and maybe to ease your mind a little bit, I did see reports that there were three teams who are interested in Russell Westbrook, none of them being the Knicks. I think it was Miami, the Pistons and maybe Orlando or something like that. Houston. Houston. Yeah and I mean those teams are either desperate for a point guard or Houston's in kind of a desperate situation right now with where Chris Paul is at. It just doesn't seem like a fit. At the same time, I don't know. I've got weird images in my head of James Dolan saying, get me Russell Westbrook. Russell Westbrook got, he has like what like four years, 171 million left, something like that. He turns 31 this year. He's had a lot of health issues already, even though not like most recently. He doesn't have the type of game that ages well. So I mean, it would feel like very familiar territory for us to go pick him up right now. Sounds like the perfect Knicks signing then. I just saw big baby David age like two years thinking about the Knicks trading for Russell Westbrook. His heart wasn't ready for it. Big toddler, David. And I didn't mean to derail us with the Westbrook talks of Jake, but we can get into the free agents now. No, you're good, brother. And it was a topic and it still will be until Russell Westbrook is moved, if he's moved. But yeah, let's talk about the guys we got in house. Because I think what you guys said at the start, you guys summed it up. There's two ways to view this free agency. We were built around and our front office said we were going to get major guys this off season. It didn't happen. If you're going to view it through that scope, the free agency in this off season is a huge disappointment. If you let that go, which I partially can, the Knicks did some good things. They brought in Julius Randall who put up some big time numbers last year. Young guy should only get better. And then they bring in, like you were saying, Tom, I mean all these contracts that can be moved. And if guys are successful, there are some team options there. We can kick those in, potentially flip these guys for other things in the future. Let's big baby David, who do you like that we brought in? Or who jumps out to you of the guys we signed that you're excited to see? I mean Julius Randall is the first easy answer because he's the most real NBA starter. Because especially last year he took a huge step and he's obviously a very talented guy. He averaged over three assists a game last year. He shot 35% from three. His ball handling playmaking has improved tremendously. So I mean he's going to be a solid star. He can't play any defense, but that's fine. As far as like the other guys, for whatever reason, I kind of just like Reggie Bullock. But just something about him. Is it the hair? Yeah, kind of. No, I just always kind of had a soft spot for Reggie Bullock. I think you guys both have more strong feelings about other guys. So leave the others available. But yeah, that's all I got. Ken, I don't even have to ask you. I know it's Bobby Portis and tell me about him. Bobby Portis is my dude. You know, you saw the quotes about just some of the stuff he says and, you know, he just, from all reports I've seen, he's just a really hard worker. And you know, I have three things I like to see in people. That's like, that's defense, shooting and toughness. And Portis has, for his size, he's a great shooter. He shot 39% last year from three on about four attempts a game. And he's got the toughness down. Not going to dive further into that. I think you guys all know what I'm talking about. The defense from what I've heard needs work. I haven't seen a lot of Bobby Portis play, but did dive into some of the analysis and by all accounts it needs some work. But he's still a young guy. This was his 23-year-old season last year, so this will be a 24-year-old season coming up. And you know, he's still got room to improve, but I just like kind of the way that he plays and his ability to stretch the floor is a big. So I think that's going to be a guy that I'm going to be watching a lot this season. And so Kenny, I see he's 24 now and he'll turn 25 this upcoming season. Is that what you said? I mean, I'm looking at basketball references, I think is based on their age at June 30th. So yeah, this would be his 24-year-old season. Yeah. And so I think he's a good backup big man to Mitchell Robinson. I think we're all expecting Mitch Robb to start. And we saw last year that he got himself into foul trouble a lot. So he needs a very quality backup big based on his play last year. I mean, that's probably the biggest thing he had to improve this offseason. But even then, just based on his age and his body type, it's not like I don't expect Mitch Robinson to be playing more than 30 minutes a night. So I could see Portis. I mean, how many minutes did he play last year? He played 26 minutes per game. Yeah, I can see him being right around that this year as well for this next team. And yeah, I mean, they need just a tough rugged backup big. Mitchell Robinson doesn't really, he doesn't have the frame to get in there and bang, he's a brilliant rim protector. But Portis can go in there and grab boards and set screens and do some of the dirty work. So I mean, yeah. So 26 minutes isn't a ton of minutes in a game. And Portis averaged 14 points and 8.1 rebounds. So those are some good stats in limited minutes. And that would be a very, very good backup center to have. Yeah, that's really strong production. I'm seeing he only shot 44% from the field, which is just okay. But as you mentioned, he was shooting four threes a game and hit almost 40% of those. So that's really strong. I think maybe he struggled a little bit more from inside the arc. But at the same time, I mean... He had a 50% effective field goal percentage, so not bad. Yeah, it's okay. And then the other backup big there is going to be Taj Gibson who just turned 34. And I love Taj's nicknames on basketball reference. I know, Jake, you love these. Oh, yes. Hard hat and lunch pail. I don't know if anyone actually calls these things. But those are just... Yo, lunch pail! There's like the two ideal items that you see at a construction fact and you want your player to be named after. Like, it's amazing. So he averaged 24 minutes a game last year in Minnesota. He put up about 11.6 and a half rebounds. And he's another guy who just could do all the little things that you want. So when we're looking at these other signings, I think we put Julius Randall in one category where he's like the talented, the upside play who could actually potentially even be a star in this league at some point. I think he really does have that kind of potential. I don't know how likely to so reach, you know, become an all-star at any point in his career, but it's definitely possible. Randall's the guy... I'd say Randall's the guy we might have wanted to sign anyway. For sure, yeah. Randall could have been signed regardless. With the other guys, I think you look at them through a different lens. And it's more like, how can they help the young players? How can they help the RJ Barrett's, the Kevin Knox's, the Mitchell Robinson's, even the Frank Nealakina's? How could they help them develop as players? And when you have guys like Taj Gibson as a perfect example of someone who's just a great locker room presence, he's not going to go out there and space the floor and help players that way. But he does it through other things, through setting screens, through offensive rebounds, creating second chances. And he doesn't have a high usage rate. He doesn't require a lot of shots. You know, he's just out there to be a hard-hat lunch pail. And just having him as a locker room presence, I think is a big thing. And that's what I think of when I think of Taj Gibson is this is a great guy to have in the locker room. Yeah, and he's really well-liked around the league. He did a lot of the Team USA stuff. Taj Gibson was around for some of that. Julius Randall, yeah, I'll start back with him again. I mean, 21.5 points per game, 8.7 boards and 30.6 minutes in the West for the Pellies. And he took a clear jump last year coming from the Lakers. And I don't know, I mean, the Lakers right now, everything they've shown us as an organization. And I mean, if you look at D'Angelo Russell a little bit, I don't know, those guys got out of LA and they're looking pretty good right now. I think someone, I want to talk about a little bit, and Andrew in the chat just said his name, Alfred Payton. I think we might end up liking Alfred Payton a lot. I think the point guard minutes are going to be interesting and if we want to go down that rabbit hole a little bit, we can. But I don't know, if you look back at the guys that we've been watching play the next point guard the past few seasons, there was a time when I was stoked that Jarrett Jack had the rock in his hand. And that's scary. So, I mean, Alfred comes over. He had that triple-double streak last year that makes for fun basketball reference trivia if you're ever in a tight spot. But I mean, a guy that, you know, his numbers aren't super flashy but 10.5 points, 7.6 assists in under 30 minutes. This guy, he's been around the league for what? Six seasons now? Five seasons? This guy is a veteran point guard who's going to be able to do some things. I mean, I'm not expecting him to break out and he's not a great shooter. But I think this guy can bring a little bit of stability to the point guard position that we haven't had in a while. And Jake, do you expect him to get starter, to start over Dennis Smith Jr. or to even get starters minutes? I do. I do. I think it's going to be interesting to see how the backcourt stuff plays out because you've got a lot of guys that, like, have in the rock in their hands. And I just think, I think Alfred right now is the most stable of those guys. Like, Dennis Smith Jr. has this ton of potential and it's easy to, we kind of forget about him. We talk a lot of nicks and sometimes we skip over DSJ and maybe too quickly. But I think Alfred Payton right now, and we're talking about bringing in these veteran guys to help the younger guys play better basketball, I think at the point guard position, Alfred Payton's got to be your most stable guy, right? And I would, I think I'd probably agree with that as a point guard. I think Alfred Payton really isn't a shoot first point guard. He averages less than 10 field goal attempts per game last year from the point guard position. So I think he's the type of guy who can play point guard alongside someone like Dennis Smith Jr. if he was playing off the ball or Frank Nilekina who it looks like will be moving to the 2-3 position. And I think you're right. I think he's, he does all of the things that you want, that you want any player to do in terms of he, he is capable of scoring the ball. He's not a score first guy. He's not a, you know, give him the rock and let him score a guy, but he's capable of getting a couple of points. He's a very good rebounder at his position and he's a, probably the best passer on the nicks. I don't know if anyone would disagree with that at this point. Yeah. I guess DeAndre Jordan got traded. So last year, last year was rough. But, but Kenny, I mean, my first thought when Alfred Payton was signed was that Frank is going to be gone before the season starts. Do you think it's possible? It's possible. I, I really don't know. I wouldn't be surprised either way. If he's still on the roster, I think it's very clear that he's not expected to play point guard anymore. But it's equally likely that he could be traded before the season starts. I just don't, and this is the same thing we said at the end of last year is I, this would be a bad time to sell on him just because you're not going to get anything for him. Although, presumably, if you haven't buried on the bench, you're going to get even less. So it's tough to say. Here's my thing. I get a little worried about it here and you guys talking like Alfred Payton should be getting, should be starting over Dan Smith, Jr. And it's just, DSJ still has all-star potential. He's a couple, he's like two or three years younger than Payton and he is just, he's popped when he's played at times. Like he has shown his ability to, to be explosive, to get to the rim and to create havoc against defenses that way. Payton, I think he's just, he kind of is what he is at this point. I don't think he has all that much upside. I'd be pretty bummed if I saw him getting more minutes than Dennis Smith, Jr. Just because at this point, we should still be trying to find those players, the star potential and developing the younger guys. Payton is young, but he's not DSJ young. That's where, that's basically where I'm at with that because DSJ, we saw him flash some stuff in his time with the Knicks last year. People, I think, are kind of just forgetting that it's Dennis Smith's third year in the league. Like he's still really young in his development. And he has all the skills you could really ask for. I definitely want to see him getting the bulk of the minutes on, on Alfred Payton. After like that first day of free, he's just like writing down some notes and numbers about guys the day after. And this is before Alfred Payton came, but I was like putting like their contracts and stuff so I could like organize things. And when we signed Alfred Payton, I didn't have time to finish that, but right now it still has. The only note I have on him is sucks. So I definitely was mad at him. So at the time, at the time, Big Baby David was a little emotional. Yeah, that's a damn damn cold. If I could dial back my comments, I don't know if I said I expected Alfred Payton to start, but if, if I did, that's not what I meant. I expect him to get a lot of minutes. And what I meant was that he will get a lot of minutes and potentially he could play alongside Dennis Smith Jr., who, Tom, I think you're right. I would prefer it if either DSJ or Frank got more minutes just for development purposes, understanding that Frank is bad and may not be on the team, but as far as the best bank for your buck and potentially getting the best players on your team for future purposes, I think that's probably the way to go. And in other, we've got some rotation stuff. Dave, I kind of want to, I want to keep it there with the rotation stuff. I know Tom and Kenny kind of mentioned a little bit. I mean, do you think, do you think there's another move coming? Do you think that these guys are just going to fight for minutes? Do we think for someone like Frank or Taj Gibson could end up getting DNPs? Do you think injuries sort this kind of thing out through the season? What do you think is going on? I don't see a scenario where we like add someone without taking away like actual players, unless it's bringing in Lance Thomas to be the 15th guy, but it's kind of a whatever situation. Like if he wants to come back, fine, I don't care. The captain, longest-tenured Nick. Lance Thomas is my boy. Big Baby David wasn't even there for that. I can't do Lance Thomas today. When you say Lance Thomas, my brain jumps to what Big Baby David wrote down for Alfred Payton. I guess along with the Alfred Payton stuff, I do expect him to get minutes. But I guess the question I have for you guys is like, even if we are fairly high on Alfred Payton's ability to contribute, would we rather, assuming all the deals are equal, I don't remember what the guy about to say got, but would we rather have just stuck with Moudier, who we've already like committed a year to his development and we know likes it here at least a little bit? Would we have rather done that? I'm kind of undecided there because I don't like Moudier, but if we're getting a guy who's going to play essentially the same role, would he rather have a guy that we've contributed to him getting to where he is right now in his career? He's kind of proved himself a little bit. I'll take this one to start. I was done watching Moudier play basketball. I was very much over that. And I think part of it, and the biggest upgrade between Moudier and Payton is just like, Payton is a much better playmaker and passer. And that's what we need if we're going to be trying to develop RJ Barrett and Kevin Knox's scores, are guys that can create for others. Moudier was actually fairly good at getting into the paint and creating for himself. But I mean, there were games where he'd be the leading assist man on a team with like two or three assists. And he just, he didn't get the job done in that capacity. And I think Alfred Payton, for all his faults, he actually can pass. And that's my main reasoning. I was completely over Moudier. Yeah, I'd say Alfred Payton kind of has an identity. Like last year it felt like Moudier was trying to find out what he is. And I think what he is is a high-volume mid-range shooting point guard, which I just don't see the demand for that in today's NBA and for good reason. So I think I'd rather see Alfred Payton, who like Ken alluded to, he's a pass first point guard. And I think when you're out there, I think that's going to be people like playing with that kind of player. People like having their heads up and knowing there's a chance they get the rock. So yeah, I'm Alfred over Moudier all day. Little rhyme. Ken, you back, I know we lost you for a second. Yeah, sorry, my internet went out for a second. It sounds like we're comparing, we're seeing who we like better between Alfred Payton and Moudier. Yeah, Dave asked if there should have been a want to bring Moudier back over Alfred. I was not a Moudier fan. And I think that Fisdale was too much of a Moudier fan for his own good. Like if Fisdale properly evaluated Moudier and thought of him as what he was, which was like a decent, okay backup third string point guard, then I would have been fine with Moudier, but he seemed to think that he was a star on this league and he should get as many minutes as he wanted, which is not the case. And Alfred Payton, like I think it was Jake just said, he seems like he's a better passer. I haven't seen a lot of film on him and I only really watched him when he played the Knicks, but from all of the stuff that I've seen since he got signed, I went back and read a lot of the articles from last year and things like that about Alfred Payton. And it looks like he has developed nicely into a very nice NBA player. He's not a star, he's not going to be a star, but he's capable of doing kind of all the little things. From what I understand, he's not a great defender, but everything else, he does kind of what you want him to do. And I think the two guys we kind of haven't given enough love yet, Ellington and Bullock. Well, big baby David gave Bullock some weird love. A couple of people in the chat were a little weirded out by that. As am I. No, but Tom, I think I want to go to you on this one because we just, I made a couple of Lance Thomas jokes. I'm sorry, Lance, I know you're a friend of the program. Tom, we added two veteran kind of 3 and D type guys. I think, and again, thinking about some of the guys we've had on the wings in the past years, should we be talking about these guys more? Are we going to like fall in love with these guys? Are we just going to appreciate kind of having someone open in the corner who can make a shot? Or where do you land on Ellington and Bullock? And that's kind of the other category of player that we're looking to get, right? So we talked about the lunch pail type guys who are doing the little things to win, and that was your Portis, your Gibson, and even your Peyton to some extent. But then the other category are the guys who will help space the floor and really sort of juice the offense. Reggie Bullock is definitely an example of that. We, BBD talked about his three point shooting. And Wayne Ellington, I mean, when he was in Miami, he was low key a huge part of their offense because he kind of plays that JJ Redick role where he just sprints around screens. And he's not the kind of guy who needs a lot of space or he also doesn't even need to have his feet set. He doesn't need to just be spotting up at the three point line and making others create for him. He will just be able to sprint around double screens and really create a lot of chaos. He took seven, three pointers a game last year and not that many minutes. His nickname on basketball reference, I know I'm going to keep going back to that well. He's the man with the golden arm. That's pretty cool. And so I really like his game and the potential that he'll have. He'll probably be the third shooting guard in the rotation, right, behind Dotson and I guess, depending on where you're going to put RJ Barrett. But like at least Dotson and Bullock are traditional shooting guards. And then maybe Barrett and Knox are your small forwards. But I'm wondering how much time Ellington's actually going to get. But I love his fit and what he can bring to an offense and what it can do to open up the floor for the more of the slashing types like your Barrett's, Knox's, and Randall's. Yeah, Tom. And I think I agree with a lot of that. And this was a point that I also wanted to bring up is as far as shooting, the Knicks didn't have a ton of great shooters last year in terms of players who are still on the roster and are regulars last year. Alonzo Trier shot 39% on two shots a game, on two threes a game, which is very good, but not a huge quantity. Damien Dotson shot 36.8% on 4.7 a game. And then the next highest shooting three-point shooter was Kevin Knox at 34%. So you added a bunch of guys who are statistically much better shooters than we had last year. Again, Bobby Portis 39% on about four a game, Reggie Bullock 37.7% on 6.2 a game, and Wayne Ellington was 37.1 on seven attempts per game last year. So those three guys are going to add a lot of shooting. And then even Julius Randall is a 34.4% shooter on 2.7 attempts a game. So that's a lot more shooting than we had last year. And I think that, like you said, will open up a lot of the driving lanes for pretty much everyone on our team. You know, you have DSJ, you have RJ Barrett, you have Kevin Knox. All of those guys who seemingly like to get into the lane just will have a lot more opportunity to do that because they have better shooters around them. And think about how that will help Mitchell Robinson too just roll into the rim. I mean, he's one of the best finishing bigs at the rim in the league at this point, even in his rookie year. And he was doing that with not a ton of shooting on the floor. So yeah, the more shooting on the floor, the better it'll be for guys like him too. And I'll say just one more thing going off of that, Tom, is I did read one of the articles I read on Alfred Payton was talking about what a good pick and roll point guard he became when he was there with Anthony Davis in not Oklahoma City, in New Orleans. And so the potential to have him and Mitchell Robinson running the pick and roll could be for exciting stuff a few times a game. Dave, you got anything you need to get off your chest about Reggie or just anything? Just in general, those are the kind of guys we know basically what they are, a 3 and D. That's a very, those are very valuable type of guys to have in the NBA now, either for the Knicks if they are trying to do some stuff and win a couple of games and help Mitch Robbs development by giving him space to work with all that kind of stuff. And also, we've kind of been saying those type of pieces that good teams want to pick up at trade deadlines. Pretty much any good team is going to want to pick up an extra shooter, an extra defender to help out or an extra bruiser where like Taj Gibson comes in. So they give themselves a lot of flexibility to open up many possibilities moving forward with pretty much all of these deals because of the price points and the team options. And yeah, they definitely are not in a bad spot with this group of guys. And Jake, I posed this question on my Twitter. A lot of people say- Is it Tinder? On my Tinder too. That's what it sounded like you were ready to say. I'm a married man, Kenny. But that's why you're only there to ask questions. Yes, just looking. I'm just taking a poll here, straw poll. But a lot of the criticism about the Knicks not taking on the bad contracts for draft picks. Like the pushback, Knicks fans were saying, well, look, they can just swap these value contracts, these good players to competing teams at the deadline or even next summer. So my question was, if the Knicks actually don't end up getting any assets for these guys, if they don't trade Ellington or Bullock or Taj Gibson, what have you, is that a failure? Is that a missed opportunity on their part? What do you guys think? I have no expectation of that. I think there's a chance that things can get moved. There's a lot of bodies in play. We could see a world where there's a Frank trade. I could see a world where there's a Dennis Smith Jr. trade. Who knows what that ends up looking like? I lost my full train of thought. That was pretty heavy. That's all I think of. You answered the question. I think you're right. Just because there's too much unknown at this point, there's too many moving parts. But I wonder if the expectation is, hey, Knicks, you signed all these players on these value contracts, do something with them, make the most out of them. The thought that strayed escape my head was, last year at the deadline, we didn't see a lot of assets getting flipped for players. I think Miratich went for two seconds. And Miratich was having a really good year last year, Bobby Portis' friend. Just a reminder, we traded Billy Will, big-time Willie Bill, for two seconds that are going to be very good second-round picks from Charlotte. Really hard in Gomez, that's right. Yeah, so don't knock second-round picks because those can become valuable and turn out to be Mitchell Robinson or Damian Dotson. That's true. Guys, I went to the chat for some cues, the one that's jumping off the board to me. We haven't really talked about the Summer League game too much, and I don't know, Summer League basketball, you kind of forget and then you're like, whoa, this is a group of guys that don't play together, that are all trying to earn their keep in the NBA, and it gets ugly quick. We did see a lot of your guy, BBD. Is that a Barrett jersey? Yeah, it is, it is. We got to see RJ Barrett let it rip, and boy, he did. It wasn't super pretty. What did you think about RJB? Can we call him that? What did you think about RJB's SL debut? Oh, he was bad. Yes. But it also was his first professional game. The first game period he's played in three months, and it's Summer League in general, who cares? Is that something to put stock in? It's fun. Yeah, I'm going to agree with Big Baby David. Summer League doesn't really matter all that much. Kevin Knox was the best player in Summer League last year, and then he was the worst player in the NBA. So don't worry about it too much. I also think that it was just kind of a situation where he was trying to do too much. He was going up against Zion. There was a lot of hype before the game. It was probably the most hyped Summer League game ever. There was a lot of big-time celebrities in the house to watch the game, and then I think Zion went out after like 10 minutes with a knee injury. So like people were disappointed. Ended in an earthquake, which is wild. Literally. Literally ended in an earthquake as Alonso Trier dunked the ball through the basket from the three-point. That's a reference that most of you won't get. But I'm not too worried about it. I think he was just trying to put on a show and pressing too much, but I think he'll settle down and he'll still be good. So I implore all of you to not put too much stock in that or what the New York Daily News will put out about it. Yeah, I got to say, I didn't watch. I didn't make a rule not to watch Summer League. I do watch all 82 games during the regular season. And so if I start watching Summer League games, my wife will leave me and I will have to get back on Tinder. So yeah. Well, I'm getting Nick's opinions on Tinder, honey. I got a quick around the horn for you guys and it's on RJB. What a point guard shooting guard small forward. How do you see his minutes lining up? Because I originally, and I still think, RJ Barrett's best strength is his passing. I mean, do you guys see him getting any run at the point or around the horn, Dave? Where do you see Barrett getting most his minutes? I mean, I think officially he'll be playing like the two or three. But I'm sure we'll see him handle the ball plenty. It's kind of the best answer I got. I don't think he'll be like officially playing like point guard for us. I don't think he's going to, you know, guard ones. But yeah, that's my biggest thing is he won't be defending point guards. So like nominally, he won't be the point guard. I don't think maybe he'll, he could be the lead ball handler. I bet he pushes a lot in transition. But in half court sets, I don't really see him being the lead ball handler very often, especially with the point guards. We do have between Dennis Smith, Junior, Alfred Payton, and then even Frank, I think that who knows if they're going to give him another shot at point guard. I'd like to see it because he's still so young. And I think his greatest value would be at the point guard position. But who knows? Maybe that ship has sailed in David Fizz to hell's eyes. You never know. Ken? Yeah. I mean, that part of the issue with having, you know, 11 actual NBA players on our team and no like true scrubs is that I have no idea how these landups are going to shake out. Like they have three legitimate people who can play point guard in Payton, DSJ, and Frank. They have a bunch of people who can play shooting guard, you know, Bullock, Ellington, Dotson, RJ Barrett. So like these guys, all those guys can shift over to three, Kevin Knox. Like there's just so many different guys who can play so many different positions. And all of them are capable of playing in the NBA. So it's impossible for me to even venture a guess as to how this shakes out. But I wouldn't expect, I'd expect them to be two and three and maybe, maybe like Tom said, a primary ball handler now and then. But who knows, man? Yeah. And I think we're going to have to seriously think about what these rotations are going to look like. I know it's a little early, but, and Tom, you mentioned it before, before the show, but there's a lot of bodies. And it really makes you wonder, are there just going to be odd men out? Or how are they going to do this? Or is it just going to be earn your keep? You know, and we kind of felt there was a similar situation last year. But I look back on the roster and I mean, some of the things I said about Trey Burke, I can never take back. And I'm a little embarrassed about Mario Hazonia. I think at the end of the year, when we compare this year's roster to last year's roster, we're going to be, I mean, pleasantly surprised when you look up and down. Never mind Kadeem Allen, our coach's favorite player. So I don't know, boys, any closing thoughts that you need to get off your chest? Yeah. One thing I want to address is another criticism I heard a lot of the NYX free agency was that they signed so many power forwards and that Kevin Knox, his ideal position or maybe his best position in the NBA would be a power forward that he's not quick enough laterally to defend wings so that, you know, ideally he'd be playing the power forward. Julius Randall, obviously he can only play power forward and maybe a small and small ball center. But as we mentioned, he can't defend the rim and he's not a strong defensive player. So that's a tough spot for him. I don't know. I'm wondering, do you guys think that the signing of Randall and Gibson even Portis to an extent, I guess he'd be playing mostly backup center, but he could play some four as well in big lineups. Do you think that that hurts Kevin Knox's ideal development? I think that just NBA lineups are so fluid nowadays and there's a lot of switching on defense and stuff. So I don't know how much it's going to affect. I think it's less than people think, but I think it will have an impact. It's just, you know, positionless basketball is the big phrase and it's all the rage now. So I just don't think it's going to be as big a deal as people think. Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty much right there with you. We'll see some amount of knocks at the four and the three and this play, it's all positionless these days anyway. So I'm not too worried. Yeah, and I think what I think I'm stumbling into with this Nick's team, Tom, or maybe this is even too optimistic. I mean, Julius Randall played 26% of his minutes last year at center. The year before that was 49% when he was with the Lakers. We might see some Randall at center. And I think outside of Mitchell Robinson, I think defensively this team might be pretty rough, but I think offensively we've got a chance to do a lot of fun things with a lot of fun lineups. But I think defensively this year, I think the Knicks are going to rate out pretty rough. Yeah, that sounds about right. I mean, going down the list of the new acquisitions, I think, from my understanding, Taj Gibson is a plus defender and Reggie Bullock is a solid two plus defender, but not necessarily a great one. And Porta Selington, Randall and Peyton are all not great defenders. So I'll agree with you on that point, but they're all hard workers. So, you know, maybe if it's not working out, you just punch them in the face. And Jake, you said that two seasons ago Randall was playing almost half his minutes at the center position for the Lakers? Yeah, for the Lakers show. Lakers, I just checked it out. They had the worst defense in the league that year. Worry some. Coincident. I mean, that was mutually exclusive, right? You can make the stats say anything. So true. Spin zone here. Yeah. Well, we got a lot of dogs, boys, and I think... Pitbulls. I spent Sunday night with my dogs and my new dogs in the chat. Dude, chat's been popping off. You guys are crazy. And if you don't know, I know our YouTube's kind of blown up, but this is technically a podcast. Go download it. Talking Nick's, podcast app, Stitcher, all of it. Check it out. We thank you. Maybe leave a review. Say Jake's the hot one. I don't know. Leave whatever review you want. That's just an idea. You know that's another phrase. That's just an idea. But otherwise, we thank you. And yeah, I think next week we're going to start maybe sinking our teeth into some lineup stuff, because it's exciting and scary, Tom. So thank you for that. Yeah, we'll probably... You might talk a little bit more about the Summer League after a few games have happened, too. There's one going on right now, by the way, for all of you currently. Once the Knicks take that Summer League title that they rightfully should get. For Tom, Ken, David, again, a lot of fun. And I think Ken... I haven't said this confidently in a while, but let's go, Knicks. Next take.