 If all board members would get their cameras on, we'll be ready to go here right at 430. All right, it is 430 on the dot and I'd like to call the March 3rd, regular meeting of the city center as a design review board to order. Just a reminder of why we're still here in a virtual setting. Pursuant to government code section 45953E, and the recommendation of the health officer of the County of Sonoma. Design review board members will be participating in this meeting via Zoom webinar. Members of the public can participate virtually by navigating to www.zoom.us slash join. Or by calling in toll free 1-877-853-5257. Using the meeting ID 816-1176-1047. Public access to the meeting through the Zoom platform can provide comments during public comment periods as they're announced. Additional information related to meeting participation is available on the city's website at srcity.org slash design review board. The meeting will be live streamed on the city's website, santaroza.santaroza.legistar.com slash calendar. You click on the in progress link to view. The meeting can also be viewed on Comcast channel 28 and also on the city of santa roza's youtube channel. Located at youtube.com slash city of santa roza. So with that, I would like to turn it over to the recording secretary for a roll call. So Michelle. Thank you. Let the record reflect that all board members are present with the exception of board member hedge path and vice chair birch. Perfect. Thanks, Michelle. Are we still having issues with minutes? Since I haven't seen minutes in a couple of meetings. Yes, sir, we are. My goal is to have them on for the next meeting. Perfect. Yeah, it's it's a, I know we had like a technical glitch through the legislature system or whatever with minutes. I just wanted to make sure that was still the case. Alright, so at this time, I'd like to go to item number 3 public comment. So this is a time. Where anyone, any member of the public may address the board on items not listed on the agenda, but are within our subject matter and purview of the designer view board. And so each speaker is allowed 3 minutes and we'll turn it back over to the recording sector here to see if there are any hands raised in the zoom platform. I do see one hand raised. Give me just one moment. Will we share the timer? Okay. And just as a reminder, just for for hand raising, just to we love to hear your public comment, but it's just a reminder if you're raising your hand to speak on the scheduled item item 8.1 logo fresco fresco apartments, there will be time during that item to speak about that. So again, this is just specifically for items not on the agenda, which would be something beyond the logo fresco logo fresco apartments item 8.1. See, look at that. I think all the hands went away. So, we'll just anyway, so if you have public comment about the board to the board about our purview, please raise your hand. Typically we hear comments about trees. Maybe what the design report does things like that. So we'll we'll leave that back open again for public comment for items not on the agenda. Okay, and I'm not seeing any hands at this time. And I'm not either either. Thanks, Michelle. So this time at this time will close public comment and we will go to item for which is board business item 4.1 specifically is our statement of purpose, which comes from the zoning code zoning code chapter 20 dash 52 dot 030 F project review review authority shall consider the location design site plan configuration and the overall effect of the post project. Upon surrounding properties and the city in general review shall be conducted by comparing the proposed project to the general plan any applicable applicable specific plan applicable zoning code standards and requirements. Consistency of the project within the city's design guidelines, architectural criteria for special areas and other apical city requirements, e.g. city policy statements and development plans. So, I'd like to go to item 4.2 now for board member reports and I believe board member Sharon does have a report. I do. Yes. Thank you, Chair Weigel. I over the past few years, I've been the designer of the board liaison to the waterways advisory committee, but due to not being able to meet the commitment during the workday. I'm I need to resign from it. I'm still going to be on designer of the board, but the waterways advisory committee. We have a designer board liaison. And so I'm making that available to the rest of the board and I'll let Amy Planner Nicholson, Senior Planner Nicholson, excuse me, describe that in further later on. It's been my pleasure to serve in that capacity over the past few years. It's a lot of fun. So I recommend if anybody's interested, please join up. And thanks, Adam. We appreciate your serving on that role. I think I think you've been in that role as long as you've been on DRB if memory serves. So, yeah, it's a, I think three years this three years. Yeah, feels like this month. Yeah, it's just like the, it's like a month after I started up. So, yeah, it's great. Perfect. So any other board reports, board member reports this evening? No. So without further ado, we'll go to item, there is no other for board business. So we'll go to item five for department reports. And we'll turn it over to board liaison Nicholson. Thank you, Chair Weigel and good afternoon members of the Design Review Board. Just a few quick items. First, thank you to board member Sharon for his great contributions to the Waterways Advisory Committee. For those of you that might be interested, the Waterways Advisory Committee is an advisory task force to the City Council Planning Commission and also the Design Review Board. And the main purpose is to review any sort of development projects along creeks and waterways for consistency with adopted waterways, plans, goals and policies. So this committee meets or can meet as often as once a month. This is the fourth Thursday of each month beginning at 9am. So we would appreciate if another board member is available to take over that important role and so you can reach out to me and the chair if you're interested. We are also in the advanced planning world launching our second community engagement set for our general plan update and supervising planner Amy Lyle did send an e-mail to the board members yesterday about the various community engagement activities that we have planned for this month. And so I would encourage anyone who is interested in participating to go to the general plan update website which is Santa Rosa Forward dot com where we have a list of upcoming workshops which begin on March 16th and run through March 26th. And we also will have a virtual workshop as well that anyone can do during their own time. And we really want to hear from all members of our community as this general plan update process is what determines what land uses are allowed where and the intensity of those land uses. So this is a great time to get involved in the planning process. And right now we're looking at land use and mobility alternatives. So again that website is Santa Rosa Forward dot com. And I believe that concludes my department reports. Thank you. Thanks Amy. So again if you are interested please email Amy. For the water is advisory committee. The three other members of the board who are here if you're interested please reach out to Amy. And just let me know because then we'll have to officially appoint you at the next meeting or you know two meetings or whatever. We don't need an immediate decision I think. Yes, Adam. Oh, if you have any other questions ask Adam. I was just going to say if you're curious about the commit time commitment, etc. Please let me know. Yeah. Okay, so item number six statements of abstention. Does anyone need to abstain from item 8.1 evening. I, in a bit of a curve ball, I was advised by the city attorney's office that I should abstain from this item today as a result of my affiliation to volunteer capacity with with SA Y. Which is the organization that abuts this, but this project. So I'll be abstaining today. All right. Thanks board member step. But we'll still have a quorum. So we're good. So item seven, we don't have any consent items. So, without further ado, we will move to item eight or we will move to eight scheduled items and we will go to item 8.1, which is the logo fresco apartments concept design review. 2445 summer field road DR 22-001 and we will bid adieu to mark step. And with that, we'll turn it over to the project planner Monet. Thank you chair right and thank you for introduction. I'm going to share my screen and turn my camera off. As always, I do that. So, okay, I will start from the second page. As you mentioned, the proposed project is called logo fresco apartment located at 2445 summer field road. The project before you today is a concept design review for a new 50 unit multifamily residential development with six units that will be dedicated for very low income residents. The project would provide 21 bedroom and 32, three and four bedroom units because the applicant is providing 15% affordable housing on site. It is eligible for three density bonus concessions and the applicant is asking for all three concessions including height setback and parking. So, the maximum allowed height for a building in the office commercial zoning district is 35 and the applicant is requesting 42 feet. The required front yard setback on who and and summer field road is 15 feet and the applicant is proposing eight feet or more. The proposed rear yard setback is a minimum of 11 feet which will be reduced from 15 feet. Also, a total of 66 parking stalls are provided when our zoning code requires 105 spaces. So, this is the neighborhood context map. The site is located at the corner of summer field and Hoenn Avenue next to some office users and health care. Majority of users in this neighborhood are single family dwelling units with some apartment complexes apartment units. And here is an aerial view of the existing project site as it is today with some trees. And the project site is owned office commercial, which is consistent with the general plan land use designation. The required entitlements for the proposed multifamily will be a major design review which will be reviewed by the design review board. And also a major conditional use permit, which will be reviewed by the planning commission so two entitlements. And these are some pictures from the existing lot. The applicant has prepared if the raw PowerPoint presentation with the video so I will keep my presentation short and we'll use the applicant to present a project. And here is a site plan that shows the access is provided from Hoenn Avenue. Again, I will defer to the applicant for more details. And here is an example of a floor plan for townhouses with two bedrooms. It will be two story. And here are some renderings for the proposed buildings. The project would include also a community room with a kitchen it secure bicycle storage and the restroom side amenities include an arbor fountain fire pit and barbecue area. So about public comments. I received public comments last minute and some had today. I have received number of emails and few calls both for in favor and opposing the project. So the concerns expressed include construction noise that will affect neighbor neighbor like a nearby businesses. The project is too dense and too tall. Two story can be better than three story. The project will result in too many cars. The proposed parking is not sufficient and residents will park within nearby neighborhoods. And here is a question about the existing trees from the site with not enough trees being proposed. So some neighbors asked for more trees on the site. And questions. There was a question about the environmental review. And there were concerns with the traffic. And also there was comment about proposed units are too small and unhealthy for families to leave it in them. So I did emails in general support of the project and asking for more trees being proposed on the site. Also I received two more emails today. It was a little bit late to include them in the packet, and they were not included. So the emails were from neighboring property owners concerned about lack of the parking and how it would negatively impact the neighborhood and other businesses in the area. And we're also question how practical it would be for visitors and renters to park more than 100 yards from the project site and walk or J walk across one avenue. Also, the project is designed with limited ingress and egress, which is not safe. And they were concerned about internet service is already awful in this area and this can stress the network this proposed project. So comments regarding the project need a water recapture elements so that there is not further stress for this neighborhood. About as for the environmental review so the project before you is a concept so is exempt from California environments already you because no decision is being made today. And with that, the applicant and the planning and economic development departments are requesting that the design review board provide comments and directions for the logo Frisco apartments. If you do not have any questions for staff, I will go ahead and share the applicant's presentation right now. Thanks Monae actually. So, I normally we would kind of roll right into the applicants presentation. I think seeing the number of attendees we have this evening in terms of what I would interpret as public interest. I'd like to do a little bit of questions of both you and probably Amy, just to probably to do a little bit of education, I think for members of the public kind of where this project stands currently. I think that's the total process that the project's going to go through. I think, you know, think kind of something like that so we can at least kind of let everybody know where it is now. What are the next steps that kind of thing. Does it make sense. And then I'm going to let the board ask some questions of staff, and then we'll go into the applicants presentation and we'll do the applicants presentation and then we'll hold questions from the board and we'll do public comment and then we'll do questions from the applicant after we've kind of done all that. Does that sound like a good plan to you. Okay, so, so I'm just going to ask a couple of pointed questions here just to help everybody understand where we are process wise. So, when we review a project at concept, what that means is, and I think this is important to understand so this is a distinction within sequel. I think that the project doesn't exist. It just means that because it's conceptual in nature at this time and our board is not making a discretionary entitlement approval, it therefore is not officially a project. Correct. Am I correct in saying that. Okay, so I just want members of the public to understand that that doesn't mean that we don't obviously take concept design very seriously. You know, we want to make the appropriate comments to the project to help elevate the project, or, you know, perhaps incorporate public comment into the comments that we're making. And so this is just one stop along a process for a project in the city of Santa Rosa. So then, so we have our meeting today we do our concept meeting what what's the next step on a for this for this type of project. So the next step is for the applicant to submit a formal application and basically they're going to listen to your comments and try to address your comments or concerns that you have above the design. And after they submit the application as a planner, I will need to refer the project to other departments for review. The other ones include fire engineering water department building division and traffic division. All those buildings departments have to review the project and if there are any issues or concerns, they will email me and send me a letter. So the applicant will need to address those issues or concerns from those departments. Also, when the applicant sub needs a formal application will send the notes of application to neighbors. So we call the neighborhood meeting and there were concerns about 600 feet is not enough. So for this meeting we increase the notice into 1000 feet. And when we notify send another notice to neighbor, it will go up will be mail up to neighbors within 1000 feet from the project site so we increase that not noticing a distance because neighbors ask for that. And then after project is being reviewed and all the comments concerns and conditions are added we can schedule the project for a planning commission meeting and design review board for review and decision to review authorities will review this project as I mentioned one is you again back to this board and for the use permit which is a major use permit. It needs to be reviewed by the planning commission and if I'm missing anything feel free to jump in and act my comments. I think that was a great summary money just one piece and I may have missed it was that did you talk about the sequel review. So during the review process we also will look for the environmental document and see what this applicant needs to include and one kind of environmental review we will need for this project, because we don't have a formal project I cannot say anything about the sequel document what type of environmental review will be needed. I think I think that's important to understand for members of the public right so sequel is a part of any kind of new project development entitlement in the state of California. And so, when an application gets submitted. It's up to the primary the lead agency in this case would be the city of Santa Rosa to make a determination based on the information as submitted what type of documentation would be required for that. And that would be everybody's probably heard of an environmental impact report that's kind of the big dog in the land of sequel, then there's mitigated negative declaration that's kind of the the middling kind of piece and then a negative declarations is kind of the bottom of the barrel. And then there's also things that allow for exemptions and other things from sequel so because this is an official project that process hasn't started yet. It's not going to determine whether or not the project is categorically exempt, or if it is going to require a full blown email or just kind of like to two sides of the sequel equation. So, I want to make that clear to members of the public that, you know, they do have it sounds like they have questions about the environmental impact traffic, all those sorts of things and we would like to hear those comments, but just some of those comments may not be able to be addressed right now because we're at the concept level, and the applicant hasn't produced a traffic study yet because they haven't been directed to do so by the lead agency just to, for example, I think something else to note, particularly about a project like this. I mean, maybe I should ask the question, I should ask you guys the question is chair Waco, I just want to drop in mention there was a drafts traffic for the use and it was shared by the neighbors during the neighborhood meeting so a draft has been prepared. Yes, just clear. Okay, which is fine. So then I think the next question, I think I would have so related to density bonuses. And that is a that is something controlled by the state of California. And so that's something that locally we don't have a whole lot of influence on is that correct. Right. State supersedes us state supersedes local jurisdiction court court jurisdictions court. Right so so with the case of this project who has a certain level of affordability in it as part of its, you know, X number of units or percentage are going to be affordable. And so that makes them eligible for those state density bonuses, which are height setbacks and. Those are incentives or concession and we cannot have entitlements on those court. Correct. So we as a local board, a local jurisdiction, you know, a local discretionary authority, we actually don't have a whole lot of control over those concessions that's correct. So I think I think that's also important to note. So that's tied to affordable housing, and it's something controlled by the state and not necessarily controlled by us. And then the last question I have, before I turn it over the board here of staff to kind of I think help ever help members of the public as well as we have to discretionary authority approvals we've got planning commission, and we've got design review and planning commission deals with land use components. So the actual site plan of the project where the buildings are located all of those things will be set on their, you know, I always forget the name of it, plat map. I think, I think is what's called I always forget the name of it. You would think I would remember, but I always forget and that gets set by the planning commission. But then design review board doesn't have authority over that but which is but that's why we have the concept review before planning commission in case design review board has any thoughts about rearranging the buildings on the site or there, you know, we see something, you know, from a setback perspective or road or something like that. Would that be pretty accurate. I get it right. Yes. All right. So, so just just know that there, there's a bunch of steps following the meeting today. This is pretty much the first stop, I would say. So I'm going to turn it over the board now with questions of staff. And so I'm going to go to board member will see any questions of staff right now. No questions of staff. Thank you. Thanks Sheila board members Sharon any questions of staff. Sure, just another thanks chair chair chair, that was a really great. Good process questions there. One other one. Just to for staff to really clarify for clarify for us what as a board we're tasked with looking at today. I think that'd be helpful for us and for the public to understand what we're really looking at. So the design of the building landscaping. Amy, can you help me what else I let me see. Yes, I would say building building architecture the landscaping I think comments on the site planning is really important that can inform the planning commission as they act on the use permit. And I believe that's. Yeah. Materials maybe they look yeah, sure. Great, but just more site pieces rather than in a land use planning. Correct questions. Great. Okay, thanks for the clarification for everybody. Thanks Adam and board member McHugh any questions of staff. No questions of staff at this point. Alright, thanks John. Okay, so I'm glad we did that you know this is a I you know it's always good to kind of review. I think the steps especially when we have a large group of members of the public so they can understand kind of where we are in the process and that their input is valuable actually at their input right now is super valuable because again we're at the beginning of the process and so anything that they have to say. The design of the building. You know, of course, comments about land use and traffic are important but they're not our primary purview but but again, please don't hesitate to say those things because it may it may trigger something in our minds about, you know, the site layout or building design or something like that so please feel free to to make your comments, your complete comments, but but do keep in mind that kind of what our purview is specifically. So I'm going to turn it back over to Monet and the applicant to do our applicant presentation. So, so I believe in great if she is here. She's the one who's going to go with presentation. You should have a prompt allowing you to mute. Okay, I just got that. Sorry. Can you hear me now. We can thank you so much. Okay. So if you could state your name. Company relationship to the project before you start that would be fantastic. Yes. Thank you for members and thank you to the city of Santa Rosa for participating in this process. I represent the architect of the project hedge path architects, and our client also on logo fresco. This is the first slide if possible. It's the site. It's a photograph of the site. From an aerial photograph. This one. Oh, there. Okay, hold on. Where do I start. Yes. As money had described, this is a vacant parcel that's currently undeveloped. This is a rental parcel that's currently owned. I mean, there's a lot of it from the south. I'm sorry, from the North. From Hoan Avenue. It is really two parcels comprising 1.3 acres. And the zoning is commercial. But. The Santa Rosa zoning code allows commercially zoned parcels to be converted to multi family use with a conditional use permit. with a 28% state density bonus applied, 38.5 units in acre are proposed. And six of those units will be affordable. And four of the six units will be large family units. There is, the project is located along two major streets, Hoenn Avenue, where the vehicular access is proposed and Summerfield Road, where there is a semi-private residential courtyard open to Summerfield Road. And that is a pedestrian and bicycle entry. The site is surrounded by single family uses to the north, the east, and the south. And it is surrounded immediately adjacent to it by a campus, an existing campus of commercial buildings. Many of them were once part of the Warwick Hospital campus and the largest of the buildings directly behind the site is occupied by SAY. It is a two-story, the original hospital building. The project is residential. So it is proposed to bridge that place between single family residences in an established neighborhood and the commercial uses around it with a multi-unit housing proposal that is medium density, medium-high density. However, we seek to demonstrate that we've done this in a way that's sensitive to the scale of the neighborhood. So the next slide, please. This is an elevation of the project from Hoenn Avenue. With the 50 units, one of our strategies was to break down the project into four buildings. And three of the four buildings are contained only four, between four and six units. So they are the size of a quadruplex or triplex traditional quadruplex. The units, the buildings that are on Hoenn Avenue are located above enclosed garages. So there are four townhome apartments in each of these buildings and a total of 34 secure garage spaces under them at flanking a driveway that is designed like an alley or a mousse. The design of the buildings and the disposition of the garages is meant to minimize the visibility of parking facilities from the street. Next slide, please. This is a slide showing the existing uses around the neighborhood. The campuses, the commercial campuses are characterized by a similarity of architectural treatment that unifies them into a campus. Many of the spaces between the buildings are not developed into outdoor rooms. However, a lot of space is used for service parking for the people who work there and who use these facilities. Hoenn and Summerfield Roads are major roads within the neighborhood. The neighborhood is well connected by a network of roads. Summerfield Road has a scenic quality to it. And Bennett Valley is a well-established neighborhood with many, really typified by single-family residential development within it. There are also a lot of signifiers of Santa Rosa's rural past, existing farmhouses that have survived the development through the years and barns and open fields. Within half a mile of the project, there are five elementary schools and two major shopping centers. Within a mile of the project, there's a high school and a middle school and Montgomery Village and access to Highway 12. Also, there are major landmarks for the city here, Howard Park and Annabelle Trioni Park. Next slide, please. This is an elevation of the project from Summerfield Road. As I said, the project seeks to be compatible as a bridge between single-family housing and a higher density form of housing. The building you see here is the largest building in the project. It contains 36 units. All the buildings are three stories. This one is 36 flats. The height to the top of structural plate is less than 30 feet, but the height to the top of the bridge is somewhere between 40 and 45 feet, depending on which building you're looking at. The perceived size of the project, we sought to soften that visual impact by articulating the building forms with a hierarchy of roof forms, shed dormers, gable dormers, and gable and parapet walls, as well as a repetitive rhythmic use of the balconies and the patios at the buildings. We also screened the entire site with landscaping, as I'll show you later. Next slide, please. This is a view of the site and the project from the southeast. As I said, it is at the intersection of two roads, Summerfield and Hoenn Road, and the buildings are arranged to provide a sense of closure, a sense of outdoor room, not only at the driveway, but also at the courtyard and at the surface parking lot that is tucked away in the rear of the project. Next slide, please. This is a view of the site and the project from the northwest. That is the, you see in the slide, the entry into the driveway where the 34 garage spaces are and into the back of the project where the parking lot is. The building in the center, the other small building contains six units and a couple of spaces tucked underneath it. And the building at the top of the slide is the largest apartment building. We wanted to show in this particular slide that even the rear faces of the project, the sides that do not front the street, but front the neighbors were sensitively treated with an equal attention to the modulation of the roof lines and the fenestration, detail of the fenestration to be sensitive to all edges of the property. Next slide, please. Again, this is the elevation from Hoenn Avenue and the distribution of unit types is shown in the narrative to the left. There are townhome apartments with three bedrooms, townhome apartments with two bedrooms and two bathrooms. There are four bedroom, two bathroom flats, 18 of the additional flats are two bedroom, one bathroom. And there are 21 bedroom, one bathroom flats providing a good measure of units that are affordable by design. Next slide, please. This is the site plan of the project. Again, you can see the garage spaces in the buildings that flank the driveway and the courtyard space between the two buildings to the south. 34 garage spaces are provided and 31 surface parking spaces are provided. Market rate amenities are also provided including a community room with a fireplace or restroom and a kitchenette. There are also laundry facilities within each unit. And the project proposes to use the power trees program to generate all its electrical needs, power needs on site to store them on site and to manage them between the units on site. There are storage closets on every balcony as well as secure bike storage for every unit. The trash enclosure is located in a shielded and covered area and the bottom in the ground floor building B. Next slide, please. So a major theme or design criteria for the project was to create a pedestrian oriented village character to the site. It is inspired by the campus type development around it and seeks to do the same. So we try to make the parking facilities to minimize them and to create a unifying kind of architecture that creates outdoor rooms between buildings. Next slide, please. The form of architecture used principally is the gable end parapet wall. This is a construction type that's historically been used in both vernacular architecture as well as high design architecture. And there are some examples here of a village in Coltswold, England, as well as more high design examples such as the Hill House by Charles Rennie McIntosh and Margaret McDonald in Scotland and Vineyard Estate in Napa by Bobby McAlpine, the architect from Georgia. At the bottom left, there's a detail of how the treatment of the gable end carpet wall is designed with a metal flashing at the top to define that edge and also to protect it. Next slide, please. Creating a sense of scale was very important to realize this vision of the pedestrian oriented village and there are tools available to modulate the architecture to achieve that one is proportion. The buildings enhance the spaces between them as much as they stand on their own. And so creating the outdoor room on a site in which there's not much room to design was really important. The massing and modulating that massing by creating a hierarchy of roof forms and activating the ground floor elements so that it's a good place for pedestrians and cyclists was also important. And the use of repetition as a tool by repeating the gable end walls, although varying them depending on the types of units that they were in front of. And also repeating balconies and landscape elements in a rhythmic way was important. And then the materiality of the project was also used to bring scale to the entire project. The colors and materials reflect the hues and colors of the oak woodland environment that Bennett Valley is. Also we brought detail into the project both at the macro and micro scale with the metal railings, laser cut screens that have a copper color to them, wood at the patios and also composite wood decking. Next slide please. We also used the need to provide security to inspire parts of the design. The entries to the buildings are all oriented to common areas for safety. The entries are defined clearly and protected from the weather. And the project design promotes personal safety by locating windows and doors and entryways with visual access from and to common areas and allocating all parts of the site for specific uses, whether they're public or semi-private or private. Next slide please. This is a view from the rear of the site showing the surface parking lot and the tuck under parking at building C. Although the city does have a parking standard that would require the project to normally provide 105 on-site spaces, the city also has in its code a section to provide pre-approved concessions for parking for projects that implement the density bonus law. This is in order to streamline the approval of such projects. So with 105 parking spaces, up to 50% of that amount can be provided in a density bonus project or 53 spaces, the project is providing 65 stalls. The expanded traffic study proposed that 69 stalls, I'm sorry, the state density bonus calculation provides that 69 stalls would normally be the number provided for this mix of units. So we are at 65 stalls and we're requesting a parking reduction beyond that of the state density bonus algorithm. Next slide please. This is a view from the Hohen Avenue entry to the project. The driveway entries is conceived of as an alley or a muse and therefore that provides the opportunity to develop housing above that in a development pattern that's familiar from even in the 19th century where there was a secondary system of circulation behind the road system for cars with housing above. Next slide please. This is a view from within that driveway. The project seeks to support the kind of development that supports traffic reduction with unbundled parking and assigned parking for the garages but unassigned parking and managed parking on the surface lot. Additionally, the expanded traffic studies show that there are 84, 80 plus spaces available on the Hohen Avenue. And during the peak time when people are at home and their cars are parked in the area, there are more than 30 spaces available on Hohen Avenue for public parking. This slide is a view of the project from Summerfield Road showing the treatment of the buildings and landscaping to screen the project from the public realm at the streetscape but also to create a sidewalk room to activate that sidewalk. The Lago Fresca pedestrian and bicycle entry contains in Arbor, which is a gateway element as well as a sidewalk and a fountain to mitigate noise from the traffic. The scale of that room is appropriately scaled to the elevations of the buildings that create the edges of that room and landscaping is interwoven through that room in the form of a dry stream bed or rain guard. Also all sides of the project contain our landscape with trees as we'll show in the next slide. This is the schematic landscape design for the project. The palette of trees selected is the Chinese pistachio as for canopy trees in the parking lot. Armstrong maples as screening trees in the side yards. Craig Myrtles and olives as markers of entry to the project and Japanese maples and Armstrong maples interspersed within the project. And then on the southern edge, which is a very important edge because it is the approach from Summerfield Road and presents the broadest side of the project to the public. We have a mixture of Craig Myrtles and Ginko by Loka. Next slide, please. The landscaping is well integrated with the project again being used to define edges and to provide screening from neighboring properties. The left view is the view of the courtyard between building C and D from the parking lot. The upper view is the view of the courtyard from Summerfield Road as you're entering into the project with the arbor and the community room to the left and some short-term bicycle parking there. And then the bottom slide shows the screening throughout the site with trees and landscaping. Next slide, please. Just as we created a hierarchy in the method that we use in designing the architectural form, a spatial hierarchy is created as well so that public spaces and markers of entry into the site, semi-private spaces and then finally private spaces are clearly marked and defined. However, we wanted to create a project where the units are engaging with the community not only within their own apartment community but with the neighborhood. And so the balcony guardrails are open guardrails and they define the edges of the courtyard and also look onto all the public spaces. Next slide, please. The project seeks to be an asset to the Santa Rosa community. Although it is 50 units, it is broken down into four buildings and again seeks to be a bridge type of multi-unit archetype between the single-family dwelling and low-density zoning to bridge that gap to the other product, which is a typical high-density 50-unit apartment building. Thank you. We also produced this video to give you a good idea of how the project feels. All right, thanks Ingrid for that applicant presentation. I think at this time, I'd like to turn it over to the recording secretary to field public comment. And so if you are attending the meeting as a member of the public, please raise your hand in the Zoom platform and our illustrious recording secretary will acknowledge you in the order that your hand is raised. And you will have three minutes to speak. Also something else that we've done at the design review board during concept is we understand there may be two folks on one Zoom account. So if there are two folks on your Zoom account, you know, they're in your living room or what have you or you're hanging out with a friend, just mention that at the beginning of your public comment that there's somebody else there that would also like to speak and will be sure to acknowledge them. So again, I'm going to turn it over to Michelle here in a second with public comment, please state your name for the record, potential affiliation or association to the project site, like you live across the street, you live down the street or you can state your address, whatever you're more comfortable with and we'll go from there. And the board will be listening to your public comment and I'll be taking notes as well as well as city staff. So hopefully we can get all your questions addressed either via the city staff or the applicant. So Michelle, I will turn it over to you. Thank you so much. Michael Freid and Doris Freid, you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute and if you could please start by stating your name for the record. Yeah, hi, my name is Michael Freid, I'm here with my wife, Doris. We live at 4844 Hohen. I appreciate the opportunity to speak to the design review board and I realized some of my comments are not within your purview, but they're probably as much within your purview as a cottage in Cotswold, England. Now the biggest problem with this project is the ingress and egress at the public meeting prior to this, the architect and the developer said they tried to get either Sutter or whoever to allow them to use the ingress and egress on Summerfield and they were turned down. They have now one place to come in and out within about 150 feet from a major intersection. Having had to evacuate twice in the last four years, it would be a nightmare with all the extra traffic, but the real nightmare is on busy times and there are lots of busy times at that intersection, people are gonna wanna turn left because the only way to get downtown, to get to the shopping centers, to get to most places in Santa Rosa is to go left on Hohen. If you go left, you're going against the majority of the traffic coming this way and don't tell me you're gonna put up the right turn only signs because we know people don't pay attention to those. Now, secondly, the parking, the bonus density things is kinda ridiculous. First of all, with the cost of these apartments, I know in the three and four bedroom units, people are gonna double up, there's gonna be not one, but probably two families. They're not gonna have one and a half cars, they're gonna have four cars. So they're gonna be most likely over a hundred cars associated with this project. Those cars are gonna spill over to not only safe parking lot and Sutter's parking lot and the animal hospital parking lot, but Summerfield and Hohen and the single family residences. If this project were 10 or 12 townhouses, I wouldn't be talking to you, but it's totally nuts to think that these cars are gonna be able to come in and go out safely. I'm gonna give you back the rest of the 23 seconds. Thank you, Mr. Freed. I did, you did mention that your wife was there. Does she have any additional comments? She can speak for an additional three minutes if she'd like. I just really want to say that I am very concerned about the traffic having had to evacuate twice and how long it took us just to get out of our driveway onto Hohen to go up to Summerfield, which we're pretty close to, was very, very difficult. And to me, it is extremely scary that even with police guiding traffic, it is going to be so difficult to get out of here in an emergency. And that's not necessary. We should not have to live under that anxiety. I also feel that it's going to impact pedestrians who want to walk from this area over to say or to the center facilities or the veterinary hospital. And because there are only few entrances and exits from the part we live on, a lot of people come through Hohen to get to Summerfield because they can't get to it always directly from what the street they're on. So you have to be aware of that traffic. And that's really what I need to say today. Thank you. Thank you, Doris. We appreciate your comments, Amy, back to you. Sorry, Michelle, Michelle, back to you, my bad. Steve Carter, you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute. And if you could please start by stating your name for the record. Good afternoon. This is Steve Carter. I am a neighbor, also an architect with Kitty Corner to this property. There's so many issues with this property, the fact that they have to ask for these concessions, which they're allowed to ask for maximum height, minimum setbacks and parking. All those I think exist for a reason within our zoning code and the fact that they're using the state loophole to get around them really makes this project intensely dense for this area. But I'd like to speak just to a few points regarding the architecture, if I may. I appreciate Ms. Anderson's characterization of this as a bridge. However, what it really will become is a divide. It's a huge call for buildings in a sea of one and two-story offices and residences. She also mentioned that this is a scenic Bennett Valley where we have farmhouses, open fields. I don't see any of that in the articulation and use of materials for these buildings. The facades are not articulated at all. They're very flat, especially the facades of buildings A and C, which you will see from Summerfield and Hohen both, since we'll be looking over the top of the distant buildings. The buildings are predominantly stucco. I think that using the hill residents in Scotland and Spain and Napa as your sort of aesthetic for the entire project is a wrong choice. There was a lot of emphasis on pedestrian orientation and having pedestrian spaces. The space that's in between buildings B and C is going to be in shadow 90% of the time. There's no way trees are going to grow in there. There's no way nobody's going to want to hang out in there. Another point was made regarding all the trees they're putting on the site. All those trees are going into like an eight foot setback where they're going to grow right up against the building. So they're going to be, A, they're going to be anemic and B, they're going to have to be trimmed to the point of not being trees at all. I'm nearly out of time, but those were just some of the points that I noted. And I really hope the design review board will make them go back and take a look at this. I hope that they have to reduce their amount of units that they can put back to what the standard is, which would be a total of 39, which is still fairly high density. Thank you for your time. Thanks Steve for your comments. As a fellow architect, I had a lot of those on my mind as well. So thanks. Next we have Rich Abazi. You should have a prompt allowing you to unmute. Thank you. My name is Rich Abazi. I live nearby the project. I am not opposed to building on the parcel, but I am opposed to the immensity and the size and the scope of this project. The previous caller talked about the trees living in an eight foot setback. We know what they're gonna look like in a few years. Anemic was the word Steve said, and I kind of agree with that. I have an issue too. If Warren Hedgepath, and he's a good guy, but he's a board member and he's also the architect on this. So I have issues with that too. I'm assuming he's recused himself from this at all, but you all have a relationship with him. The applicant is asking for a lot, an awful lot. They're asking for setbacks. They're asking for density bonuses. They're asking for major conditional use permits. If we're going down this path, then the applicant really needs to give the neighborhood something in return. And I mean a smaller project. I mean more trees, more landscaping, less hard scaping, less density, which would correlate to less traffic. And parking and all those other issues. There are no three-story buildings, I think east of Highway 101 on the east side. The only one I can think of is Shadow Creek Apartments that's that way in the back, invisible from Montgomery Drive. It's just way in the back there. There is nothing this tall on this side of town. So the height issue is a big deal. I think it needs to come down. Two stories looks okay. As the previous caller said, tall buildings, less light in that courtyard. And that's all I have to say. Again, I'm not opposed to building, I'm opposed to the size and scope of this project. Thank you. Thanks, Rich, for your comments. Next we have Caroline. Caroline, you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute. Hi, we can hear you. If you could please start by stating your name for the record. Yeah, this is Lisa Palmer. I am here with Caroline and John Homer. And we live right about a half a block to a block from the intersection. So I do agree with Michael and his wife, as well as Steve and Rich. One of the things that I think it's just so much in that small piece of property that they are trying to build, the scope of it is huge. Also, Steve had mentioned the trees in the sidewalk with an eight foot setback. It's also, those trees eventually wind up ripping up the sidewalks, the root system. The leaf problem. And the leaf problem and the dropping and some of it's, I just think what's happening is it's going too high and the amount that you're trying to put on that small parcel is too much to ask. Parking. And the parking, it should be at least a hundred parking spots and asking for concessions on that. I think the concessions they are asking for are too many to try and shove it in such a small spot. Where is the 30 places on Hoenn located? And where are the 30 spaces that they said are on Hoenn that are available for parking? And which part of Hoenn, I'd like a response on that from someone, is what parking they were referring to on Hoenn. And that's pretty much what I have to say. I think also, I know we aren't getting into this, but the traffic and getting in and out of here with two evacuations, so far under our belts in four years, it's asking quite a bit. I'm trying to be addressed immediately. And it needs to be addressed before it goes any further. Thank you. Okay, thank you. Next, we have Amy Wood. Amy, you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute. Hi, my name is Amy Wood. I am a tenant at 4750 Hoenn Avenue, which is surrounded by this parcel of land. And I also live three blocks away on Wyoming Drive. So I know this area very, very well for the last 10 years. So the concerns that I really have, not just for the neighborhood as a whole, but some of them have already been stated, the roots from the trees, we live in an area that used to be a walnut orchard. And it is all adobe clay in here. We already have foundation problems. And many of the properties in this area have had to do foundation repair just because of shifting, adding trees with shallow root systems causes all kinds of foundation problems, as well as sidewalk problems. The traffic and parking, I mean, obviously it's a known problem, but I just wanna share my experience being in that particular property and having a much shorter ingress egress. We have the ability to go in either Hoenn or Summerfield. This property does not. I can tell you from experience that the getting in and out of a property on the Hoenn side, the traffic does not allow for that. There are already plenty of accidents for people trying to get into either my business or the veterinarian next door. And without access to the Summerfield ingress egress, that is going to continue to be a problem. I will also say that delivery truck drivers have a very huge concern with going in on the Hoenn Avenue side. They always try to go in on the Summerfield side and that is simply not going to be a availability with this project as it stands. The parking itself, we struggle with parking and we have a very large parking lot for all of our people. And I don't know when the traffic study was done in particular, but if you've noticed, our whole neighborhood has been repainted and there is zero on-street parking all the way to my house, which is on Wyoming, on the Summerfield side. So for at least three blocks on either side of Summerfield, there is zero parking. As a woman, if I were to be asked to on-street park and walk with very little overhead light, especially at night, I would not choose to live in that place. I know the same goes for Hoenn Avenue. There is very little parking unless these people are expecting people to park in the parking lots of the businesses surrounding it. So those are the concerns that I have. I know something was brought up about internet. I can say for a fact, internet is damn near impossible to get to our corner of this part of the city. So we had to go through special exceptions and lots and lots of begging of different internet providers. So that is just my two cents. Thank you very much for your time. Great, thank you so much. Next, we have Mary Wilson. Mary, you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute. Hello. Hi, we can hear you, go ahead. Okay. Well, I agree with all of the problems of the parking in the traffic previously said. The one thing that they are not pointing out is that Hoenn is a feeder road from where people take a shortcut to Highway 12. They speed on the road. It's hard to get out of any street perpendicular to Hoenn. And this isn't when there's a fire going. This is every day. So, but all that said, I agree with the previous things have been said as well as the number of units is too many. And my personal reason I'm here is on the southwest corner of the lot. There is a tree and it is called a dawn redwood. If you're interested in finding out about the tree, it was written about in the press Democrat last Saturday as a living fossil. I know they mentioned Ginko, which also are living fossils, but the dawn redwood is very rare. And I understand there is a rule that says if you're gonna cut down a tree of a certain circumference, you have to replace it with two of the like trees. Dawn redwood was not mentioned as one of the trees. In fact, Walnut wasn't either and neither was oak. And so the trees that they're replacing are replacing them with different trees. So I think this needs to be explored. And I don't think you're gonna find two or three dawn redwoods, small enough to plant in the area. So if you're interested in my tree, do read the article in Saturday, the 26th press Democrat section B. Thank you. And I'm looking forward to seeing how this process progresses. Mary, could you just state your name for the record, please? Oh, it's Mary Wilson. Perfect, thank you so much. Next, we have Elizabeth. Elizabeth, you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute. And if you could please start by stating your name for the record. My name is Elizabeth Goldman. And I work on the corner of home and summer field, near 100 feet or so from this project and have for years. I'd like to speak on a couple of issues. One is the entrance to Hoenn is very near the intersection of Hoenn and summer field. And that is a very busy intersection as many commenters have stated. It's busy enough that I would think since that is the main ingress and egress for where people would park, that even if they had a parking spot and clearly there is a severe shortage of parking at the site, but if they did have a parking, it's so challenging to turn right there. It would be tempting to try to park elsewhere, which brings me to where else would they want to park? The logical place that people would go would be onto the parking at the surrounding campus. And I want to make it not onto Hoenn as the project developers are suggesting. Other people have stated why it would be unlikely people might want to park on the street. The campus, parking on the campus that it already has uses. It's not intended for residential parking. It's people go in and out, there's offices there. And I want to comment that I did not see a, even if there was a secure fence around the entire perimeter, I did see in the renderings at least, I heard no comment on, but I saw renderings of a fence, although it looked as if to my eye that the fence was not present at the end of the main parking area for this project. So I want to comment that if I lived there and I had to go in and out of the Hoenn area, it would look a lot easier to just go park on the campus and impacting the surrounding businesses. Another piece that I do want to mention is follow up on the comment that was made about the tree that's on site, the Dawn Redwood. There is a heritage tree there. I did not hear any comment about that from the developers about their plan for that. And I do think that should be taken into account as well. Thank you very much for your time. Okay, thank you very much. Next, we have Kashi. Kashi, you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute. And if you could please start by stating your name for the record. Good afternoon, I'm Kashi Ghazog. I am the property owner that this project essentially is proposing to encapsulate where the veterinarian and tech company rent from me. And I'm seriously concerned about the parking as well as the entrance and the traffic issues. Parking being the biggest concern of mine because it looks like they're building this project with the intention of having people parking our parking lot which is gonna adversely impact my tenants and their customers, their employees and their businesses. I disagree with what Drew Wagle said earlier that because they're using this loophole of six affordable units, the city has their hands tight, you don't. You have vested interest in protecting existing historic buildings and sites. These parking spaces are not gonna work. So I got my hands on this traffic hilarious 12 page PDF, tiny PDF made by W.Trans which was hired by the developer, Mr. Holley, Holley and Associates talking about all the parking spaces on Hoenn which simply do not exist. And we all know people are gonna jaywalk. They're not gonna park down the street where my dentist is and walk a football field to the intersection to the crosswalk and cross the street and walk another football field to get into their apartment unit. They're gonna park in my building parking lot. They're gonna park at Say's building parking lot. They're gonna park at all those other empty buildings to the west of my building. And for the record, my building's address is 4750 Hoenn Avenue. The other thing that's really interesting about this project is that many of which have been mentioned already, the height of the buildings are ridiculous. It's just gonna be sticking up like a sore thumb. It's kind of like how we developed an allowed fountain grove to become what it was and what it is again. The screening of the trees is a joke. Many have already beat that to death. I'm not gonna go there. And I don't know how you're gonna manage to traffic in and out of this driveway. There's no way to turn left safely. The way people dive into the turn lane for summer field is gonna also be very dangerous to people coming out of there. Three minutes is not enough to cover all the issues with this ridiculous proposed project. So I'm gonna leave it at that and yield my last 10 seconds. Okay. And it looks like we've gotten all the hands. I do want to state that if you are calling in. Michelle, it looks like we have one more. We do have one more that just popped up. I did want to mention. Oh, more. If you are calling in and want to raise your hand to make a comment, you can press star nine and that will raise your hand. And next we've got a couple more here. Michelle, can I break in just for a minute? Of course. Sorry. So I did want to let members of the public know. We will ask, I will specifically ask the applicant and or staff about the 30 spaces on Hoenn. We will also ask about the potential of this Don Redwood to try to get those questions answered for you guys. Because I did hear that was a couple of times and that members of the public wanted to hear some explanation on those from the applicant and or staff. So we'll get to that once we bring it back to the board here. I just, I did want to mention that to everybody that I heard you and I wrote it down. And hopefully we'll be able to ask about those items here in a minute after we go through the next, it looks like five folks. Back to you, Michelle. Thanks. Next we have Mary. Mary, you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute. And if you could please start by stating your name for the record. Yes, my name is Mary Valentine and I live on Lucy court in Santa Rosa. I won't take up a lot of time because pretty much everything's been covered. But I do have, excuse me. I do have a question. I think Mr. Stapp abstained because of some connection with the say center. And I wondered if this particular project has any correlation or connection to the say project. The reason I'm asking is at the last meeting the owner indicated when several of us pressed him about the nonprofit, what his nonprofit did, et cetera, et cetera. And he did indicate that it is, their focus is on solid recovery. Now that being said brings up the question for me. If you have so many four bedroom apartments that almost sounds like a dorm setting to me. I could be way off base. But I guess I'd like a little bit more clarification on that. Everyone else has indicated the parking, the traffic which we all deal with. So those are just kind of the questions that I'm interested in hearing a little bit more about. So I too was curious about where those parking places are in Hohen because I travel that room frequently. And I don't know if there's 30 parking places in that area of Hohen. You might have to go all the way down to Yoluba in order to find some parking on the street. But as far as I know, there's no parking on the section of Hohen that we're referring to. I will yield whatever time I had left and appreciate your looking into these kinds of issues as well. Thank you. Thank you so much. Next we have Lori. Lori, if you could please start by stating your name for the record. Hi, yes, Lori Godwin. And I am a neighbor that lives in the area. I think I wanna start off by saying that I'm really disappointed that we are back square one listening to public comments and neighborhood comments that are repeating themselves from the meeting that we had in July, July of 2021 last year. Many people here were part of that discussion and have voiced the same concerns and about the size and scope of the project, evacuation issues, the parking issues, the height variances that are being asked of this project, the setbacks. And yet we are still, I reviewed the project design and the project is exactly the same as it was last July. I don't see other than some design changes on what the buildings are gonna look like and from the exterior with the balcony additions and the change of the sort of theme of what this is going to look like. None of the concerns of the public from back in July have been addressed. And so I'm asking, why are we, why is nothing being addressed by the public at this time as far as the size and scope? I guess it's just very disappointing to hear that if this is the type of the way the public is gonna be addressed by the developer, I just, that's just my comment. And I'll yield the rest of my time. Hey, Michelle, can I just jump in again real quick? Of course. Sure, I just wanna clarify something with the public commenter that just made a comment. This is the first time Design Review Board has seen this project. So there may have been a neighborhood meeting that occurred last year or something like that that we may not be aware of, but I did wanna just reiterate, this is the first time that we as a city board are seeing this project. And so I think perhaps whatever may have occurred in the subsequent six or eight months or what have you was perhaps just on the, from the applicant side to the neighborhood and that didn't necessarily come to us as a board. So I do wanna let you know that you were heard, but that wasn't part of the process that we've been involved in. So just to make that clear. So thanks, Michelle, we'll go back to you. Sorry about that. Okay, next up we have Ralph Belton. And if you could, I'm sending you a prompt so you can unmute yourself and please state your name for the record. Ralph, if you could give us just one moment to hold the timer back up. Sure, no problem. You ready? Give us just one moment. Okay, Ralph, go ahead and please start by stating your name for the record. Yeah, my name is Ralph Belton. I live across Summerfield. I've been over here about two years. I'm a retired architect. I've gone through lots of design review board processes, planning processes all over the United States. So it is wrong what happened with the last meeting. I met with a community that didn't share any of the comments from that meeting to the design review board. That's wrong. So if they're gonna go on doing that, this is just gonna get harder for everybody because everybody has emotions involved. The access to the site is nothing. There's no way to get in and out of that site, the way you got it. You have to put up another stoplight at the polling entry if you wanted to do that. The things you're building are ugly. They're not gonna be nice. There's no space between the rooms, between the buildings that are outdoor rooms. I've done that. The scale is not there. You put in three-story buildings around very narrow spaces that they'll just die. So you should pay attention to all these people that have come here. I know about three or four of them and they're all telling you the truth. And if you don't listen to the people who live here and have been through three evacuations and firemen trying to get in and out, you're missing the point. Don't throw up all the sequel comments. The sequel, if it's done right, we'll find all of these issues. So you might as well start doing it now. I don't have anything more to say other than I agree with what everybody says, okay? Thank you. Thank you. Next we have Annette Rameos. I'm gonna send you a prompt to unmute yourself and can you please state your name for the record? Annette, can you accept my prompt? Annette, it looks like we can't hear you. You may need to update your Zoom for us to be able to hear you. Alternatively, you can call into the meeting using the toll free number that is on the public comment screen currently and input the meeting ID 816-1176-1047. And then we'll be able to hear you that way. For right now, we're going to go ahead and move on to the next person and we will keep an eye open for you. Okay, caller 2402, I'm gonna send you a prompt. Please press star six and state your name for the record. It looks like they're still muted. So maybe they, can you explain how to unmute? Yeah, caller with the last four digits of 2402, if you could please press star six to unmute. Okay, it looks like you're unmuted now. If you could please start by stating your name for the record. We can hear you now. Go ahead. When you have 10 seconds remaining in your three minutes we'll give you a brief warning. Caller, we heard you for just a brief second but we cannot hear you now. I don't know. We can hear you now. Go ahead. Yes, we can hear you. If you could please start by stating your name for the record. And I'm calling, I'm getting an echo back up the engineer would have even allowed it to go this far. I talked to Monet, so Colleen, indicated that maybe that could be the case, but something worth saying. Ingress and egress onto a home and average such as they're proposing. What everybody has said is true. It would be not safe. And I think the people in the project that they're trying to put in their web in the morning when they go to work and to school in the evening or afternoon when they're coming home. It would be very difficult to get in there or to get out. Thank you. Next up we have Anita Maldonado. I'm going to send you a prompt to unmute yourself and can you please state your name for the record? Michelle, it looks like I'm seeing hands go up and down and youths go up. Are we having an issue, a technical issue? It looks like it. I was just about to jump on and say it looks like we're having some kind of issue. Do we want to take a little recess and let you guys figure that out? It looks like hands are being able to be raised again. If you did have your hand up for public comment, if you could please raise them again at this time. And okay, it looks like Anita. Anita, you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute. And if you had to please start by stating your name for the record. Hi, my name's Anita Maldonado and I serve as the Chief Executive Officer at Social Advocates for Youth. I want to address the comment that was made earlier by the woman that indicated that SAY was mentioned in the previous public meeting. And I want to just make sure that it's on the record that SAY is not affiliated with this project in any capacity. And we've not given the developer any permission to use our name. And so we're not connected to this project in any way. So I just wanted that to be part of the record. Thank you. Thank you, Anita. Next we have Sandy Martinez. I'm going to give you a prompt to unmute yourself and can you please state your name for the record? This is Sandy Martinez and I live in the neighborhood. We live in the neighborhood. And I totally want, I agree with everyone, especially Laurie and Ralph and the Freeds and Steve Carter. I'm going to go back to, there is no parking on Holland. It sounds like no one on the project has ever driven down Holland morning through night. Everybody's already, or everyone that lives here already parks there. We live in Syracuse Creek Village. So we have our own parking space. But I have a feeling we've had, we've had people before park in our village and it's tied here. We're going to get the overflow over there. You mentioned the five grammar schools, or not you, but the project mentioned the five grammar schools, one high school and the junior high. If you think about it, they all start at the same time. So traffic in the morning, it's just crazy. I mean, getting out of here, there's accidents, let's see. Oh, and then I'm going to reiterate the one, with one entrance out and no safe, it's not safe for evacuating or smooth traffic flow in the morning and after work. The video, it doesn't show all the traffic. And I'm just curious why they have green grass when we're under water restrictions and still in the drought. There's also the internet project and I'm disappointed they didn't address our first meeting. So it's been a waste of time for us to have to get off of work early so we can attend this meeting because we're talking about this again. Thank you. Oops. Thank you. Annette, Romeo, do you want to raise your hand to try speaking again? I want to take a step back here while we're figuring that out with Annette and trying to get her comment, but it looks like Kashi has his hand raised again. And I would like to offer that if there's someone else at his place of residence or on his Zoom account that would like to speak, we should maybe grant that. And then if that's not the case, we can cut it off while we're figuring that out, can we do that? Absolutely. Kashi, I'm going to give you permissions to talk and can you please state your name for the record if it is somebody else? Hi, it's Kashi Ghazog, 4750 Hoenn Avenue landlord or property owner. I don't. Okay, yeah, I'm sorry, Kashi. Unfortunately, if there's not a second person there, everybody gets three minutes. That's kind of the deal with public comment with city boards and also city council. Amy, is that correct? Planner Nicholson. Yes, that's correct. So three minutes for public comment. Thanks. Okay, LA. I'm going to give you permission to speak if you can accept my prompt and then state your name for the record. Hello, can you hear me? Yes, I can. Okay. My name is Lucia Amescua and I live down the street from this project. And I just want to say that this project is mainly going to benefit the development company to profit from it. This development company is clearly taking advantage of the location and neighborhood with a complete disregard to any safety issues having too many occupants overflowing in a small space. I am also concerned with safety for our neighborhood. The parking issue will be problematic to our neighborhood streets. The crime and theft rate will go up. Our home value will go down. I am concerned with the safety of our neighborhood. We are all aware of this, of the mess this will cause for our neighborhood if this development company is given permission to build. So I hope this doesn't go any further. That's it. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, Michelle, I'm not seeing any additional hands being raised. Are you? Chair Weigel, no, there are no hands raised at this time. Right, so typically what we do at this time is we ask if with no additional live public comment, we'll go back to Monet and Amy and we'll see if there's any additional emails that we've received that were not posted to the packet in terms of late correspondence, any additional voice mails that may have been recorded on the city's various phone lines. So Monet and Michelle, any additional public comment that were not part of the packet this evening? It don't have the voicemail. I haven't received any voicemail, but as I mentioned during my PowerPoints, let me check my email. I know I had two emails today. One was from Kashi, which he spoke already and one, let me check from Caroline, I think. Let me just check my email. I had two that were not included in the package. And just so everybody knows members of the public, typically what we'll do is we'll summarize the contents of the email for the board and then that public comment will get posted to the record and then it'll be part of the project moving forward in a row. So when this comes back to the board, that public comment will be attached to everything else. So yes, I have, yeah, go ahead. I was just gonna say, while you're back, but I was gonna say while you were looking, we received one at 417 as well from Rich. So very late, but still counts. Yeah, I don't have that one. I have. Yeah, it showed up on my email to the rest of the design review board. I'll forward it to you right now, Monae, one sec. It was just sent to the board from Rich Abazia, who. He spoke already today, he spoke today. So he, but that will be included in Monae's rep of the public comment. And also an email from Kashi again that was sent to you and I received the email that you forwarded from Richard Abazia. So total, I can tell by this time you have four emails that they're gonna include in the package. Yeah, and just to summarize, Rich already spoke this evening, Kashi already spoke this evening. There were two emails from Kashi is what it sounds like. And then there was a third one. The fourth one, can you summarize that one? Or did that person speak this evening? Caroline, did she speak Caroline Chapel or Chapel? I don't believe so. Could you summarize that for us, please? Yes, and I believe I think, okay. So yeah, she was the one who mentioned about the internet in this location. And I added that in my comments. And she was the one also who mentioned about Ingress and Ingress, the project site and about the project being too dense. So I included her comments to my presentation. But if you want, I can read them again for you. No, I think that's sufficient. Thank you, Monae. I appreciate that. Okay, so at this time, what we would typically do is we'd bring it back to the board for questions of the applicant and staff based on kind of what we've heard from the public. But we did have a long kind of public comment there. So what I'd like to do is just take a little five minute bio and drink break and then we'll come back and do that. So if everybody could just bear with us. It's been almost two hours in the chair here. So I'd like to give the board a short break. And so let's reconvene at 620, please. Thank you. Okay, it's 620. If board members could turn their videos on and let's bring it back and reconvene. So thank you everyone for indulging a short break. I wanna thank the members of the public for their thoughtful comments. I know this board in particular takes public comment very seriously and we generally try to incorporate public comments into any sort of action that we may be taking on a project. So again, thank you for that. Before I turn it over to the board here, I'm gonna address a couple of the public comments that I heard over and over but I also wanna address a couple of procedural items that I heard. So someone asked about Warren Hedgepeth and his firm. Yes, they are the architecture firm working on this project. And if Warren were not ill, he would have to recuse himself from this project normally. And so he would not attend the meeting. He would not be part of the deliberations or the discussion. And while yes, we all know and love Warren, I think this board is very good about judging the project on its merits and not taking the fact that a board member may be involved in a project into consideration during the review. That would be the same case with my firm as well, the firm I work for. If my firm had a project before DRB, which does happen every once in a while, I have to recuse myself as well. And we've had board members that I've had to do in the past as well. Henry Wicks had a number of projects he had to recuse himself from. So I just wanted to let everybody know how that process works. Okay, so a couple of questions that I heard over and over and over again. And Monet, maybe you can address this or perhaps the applicant. So maybe either the applicant, we can grant the applicant permission to speak. Michelle, I don't know who. Who might be the right person, maybe Ingrid, maybe somebody else. Team could raise their hand for me please. So you can come to the top of the list. Okay, we have Matthew, Ingrid, Deline and Dawn. You should all be able to unmute yourselves now. And then if I could ask you please to keep yourselves muted when you're not talking, just to keep the background noise down, that would be great, thank you. Thanks, Michelle. Fantastic as always. We have an amazing recording secretary, just so everybody knows that. I just wanna make it public college. Michelle's fantastic. So one question I heard was about, specifically about this traffic study. And so maybe Deline can answer this. Deline, when was the date of the traffic study and where are you currently in the process of that? I start by introducing myself. My name is Deline Whitlock. I'm a senior principal with Whitlock and Weinberger Transportation here in Santa Rosa. And we were asked by the applicant to prepare a traffic study for their project. At this point, as noted, it is still preliminary. It's in draft stage. It hasn't been finalized. But we were, we did coordinate with city staff, including the public works department and traffic engineering staff on what should be included in a traffic study. Subsequent to the first meeting that was held with the neighbors, we were asked to go back and do some analysis of the parking. And so that was the point at which we went out and did some parking surveys. I actually am trying to find that data. For some reason, my computer, of course, doesn't want me to do what I want it to do. So we did take parking surveys back in November of last fall. We took counts from nine to noon, and then again from eight to 11 in the first week of November. The segments that were counted, we did look along, it was all along Hoan because Summerfield Road has parking restrictions. So we weren't assuming that there was any parking available on Summerfield Road, so it was all on Hoan. And it was between Summerfield and Arroyo Circle, Arroyo Sierra Circle. So it wasn't all the way to Hoan or, I mean, all the way, the farmers lying or anything else. It was just within a walking distance of the site. And we did do those particular hours because we wanted to capture both the time of day when the medical offices and other types of commercial enterprises in the area would be busiest. So that was in the middle of the day. And then also later in the evening when homeowners would be, or residents would be more likely to be home. We have typically found when we've done parking occupancy surveys that late evening night time is when you get the highest parking demand for residential neighborhoods. So we did make sure we took counts during a time period when we would reasonably expect to have a pretty high use of the adjacent parking. So, and I mean, the 30 parking spaces that we are talking about are throughout that area. It's obviously several blocks long, but we did find that there was always parking available. The parking occupancy in some areas, some sections was higher than others, but the highest occupancy we got in any of the sections was 80% for the most part during the day. And that was during the daytime. At night that same segment had nobody parked on it. Otherwise for the most part, the street parking was only about 50, was between 10 and 50% occupied. So there was a fair amount of parking available along the street. And obviously it's scattered along there. It might be one space between a couple of driveways and another space between two other driveways. So it's strung out along that double block, but we were looking to make sure that there was space available that could be used if there were overflow parking. However, we would note that while everybody thinks, okay, 50 units, that's gonna be 100 vehicles, that's not what evidence shows when you have certain types of housing. And so we are basing the parking demand on statistical analysis of parking demand at other similar types of sites. And in fact, we've done parking occupancy surveys at numerous different types of sites in Santa Rosa. And the numbers that we came up with are pretty consistent with what we used for this particular study. So does that answer the specific question you had about the parking? I think so, did you mention last November was when you did most of the site observation for the draft study? Okay, so November of 2021. Correct. Okay, perfect. Okay, excellent. Okay, just out of curiosity for the project team is Chad, Dean or part of your project team, Dalyne or Ingrid or? No, I've never heard that name before. Okay, so thank you. Okay, thank you. We did kind of close public comment, but because we are at a concept review, if someone hasn't spoken and something comes up, we typically will try to grant them the time to speak. So if you could, I guess just let us get through, I guess these first couple of questions, then we'll kind of maybe take a step back and take your public comment, that'd be great. If you're interested, and I'll open that back up. And I'm seeing another hand from somebody who I believe has spoken already. So if you could lower your hand, that would be great. Okay, so this is a question, I think for Don McNair. Don, can you speak to the Don Redwood question that came up? Yeah, my impression of this tree, and it was backed up by the arborist who's trying to get on this meeting right now, is it's a bald cypress, it's not a Don Redwood. It's not a heritage tree, and in spite of that, in spite of the rarity of a Don Redwood in the wild, they're readily available commercially. So it's not like it's a rare tree or a rare choice because you can, many nurseries can acquire them and they can be planted anywhere. So it could be replaced if needed. Okay, thanks Don, I appreciate it. And Don, can you state your name for the record and your whole moving project? Oh yeah, sorry, Don McNair, McNair Landscape Architecture. Thanks Don, appreciate you. Okay, and then the next unit mix. So Ingrid, if you could confirm this for me. So I saw in the plans on the cover sheet, 21 bedrooms, 22 two bedrooms, four three bedrooms and four four bedrooms, is that correct? That's correct. Okay, and I believe during your presentation, you spoke about how the four bedrooms were very low income and they were designed as, I guess, family units. So like perhaps multi-generational family units or something like that, is that the idea behind it? No, I did not actually specify the tenure of the units. I just said they were affordable. So that's to be determined. I also wanted to say that the units are called large family. That's the language used by the Tax Credit Allocation Committee in the state of California. Those are just units that are more than three bedroom, three or more. Okay, cool. Thanks Ingrid, I appreciate that clarification. I'm just going through my list here. And some of the big stuff. So we've got the unit mixers all. Excuse me, Chair Weigl. Sure, go ahead. I just got it from the arborist. This is Don McNair again. That he looked at the cones more closely and it is indeed a Don Redwood. So there is a correction to be noted and duly noted. All right, thanks Don, appreciate it. Yeah, no worries. Okay, so this may be a question for Ingrid or for Don. So there were a couple of questions about fences. I did see a fence design in the documents, but I did not see any real explanation of fencing around the parcel. Or I mean, I saw some, you know, some low walls of entries and things like that. Can you speak more to where the fences are planned for the project? The project will be entirely fenced, except at the entrance of the courtyard on Summerfield Road, and the entrance of the project at the vehicle driveway. We didn't show the fencing in order to make clear the architecture of the project for the board. Thanks for that clarification, Ingrid. Appreciate that. And I would just note that when you guys come back for the, you know, for your actual entitlement, please indicate the locations of the fencing because that is part of what we do approve, both location and design. And in the past, when we haven't had something as simple as fencing indicated on the plans, we've had to kick the project. We've had to kind of punt it and wait for it to be, to come back, because there may not be a way to condition it appropriately. So I would just encourage you to make sure that it's on the plans next time. And I understand why you would hide it on this one to give us an idea of what's going on with the architecture. So I get that. Okay. Okay, so I think this is a question for city staff. And perhaps I may have not addressed this more correctly. So Amy or Monet, could you guys run us down just a little density bonus rules about kind of how that works? That would be great. Thank you, Chair. I can provide a bit of a summary and then hopefully Monet can confirm what I mentioned and then add anything that might be specific to the project. We do have a density bonus ordinance in our zoning code and this is consistent with state law. Part of density bonus law is that it allows for densities that exceed what the land use allows. And that percentage is based on the number of affordable units that are provided relative to the project and what income category those units fall within. That the number of affordable units also will dictate the number of what we call concessions a project is eligible for. So this can be development standards like setbacks. It also includes things like parking spaces or building height. And what that means is that if an applicant requests a concession and then they indicate how those concessions make their project financially feasible, then the city has to approve those concessions as a part of the density bonus unless it makes specific written findings. One example would be if the city could not see that there was an identifiable cost reduction from those concessions or if there would be a specific adverse impact on public health or safety. So those are findings the city would have to make in order to deny those concessions. I'm not aware of the city doing that for a density bonus to date. I think I don't couldn't speak to any sort of case law. I think when we come back, when this project comes back, hopefully we can provide a little bit more information if that's still a matter that the board would like to know more about as it relates to denying concessions. I don't know if that helps or if there's anything else I might be able to add. Yeah, it does help me a little bit. I think from my perspective when we've had concessions in the past, they haven't been, I think as in, we haven't had three of them and we haven't had them kind of with a project that appears to have a certain level of public opposition, I guess I would say. And so in the past, that we haven't necessarily had the wrinkle of perhaps denying concession, if that makes sense. And so I think my curiosity was peaked a little bit in terms of that. And it sounds to me like, if any of the concessions in one way or another negatively impact the public safety and welfare, that absolutely is a purview of this board. And so that's kind of just where my head was with it, trying to understand how that works and seeing just where the next steps may or may not be just from our perspective. Because again, typically the concessions we've had, we have approved have been, they've really fit within the design of the building or the research of what was going with the building in terms of its affordable components or many of those types of things. So that's why I was expanding the question. Sure, and I, Monet, I don't know if you have determined this at this point since we're still in the pre-application phase, but they're applying for, or when they submit their formal application, they would be submitting for a state density bonus. And is this in our zoning code, I believe has the director as the review authority for a density bonus. And then the project would go to the planning commission for a conditional use permit for the multifamily residential use. Right, Proposal C in the office commercial. Okay. And then the design review board for a major design review. Yes. Thank you very much, guys. I appreciate that. So I think those are kind of the big questions I had, but I heard a number of different, from a number of different folks. Obviously, we do have some questions from, I imagine from the board, but I do want to take a quick peek here. And it doesn't look like we have any hands raised, but if it's amenable to Michelle, I'd like to turn it back over to her and we can take this one last public comment. It looks like from Chad and we'll go from there. And Kashi, unfortunately, I think really, unless there's somebody else there, we cannot grant you an additional three minutes. Thanks. Chad, you should have a prompt allowing you to unmute. And if you could please. Yes. Okay. Please start by stating your name for the record. We can, go ahead. Okay. My name is, my name is Chad Dean Hart. Sorry, I joined the meeting late. But the only is adjacent neighborhoods to the project. And my question was around the parking and the number of spots. I know you were stating that you'd done a study and that I guess you feel that 67 spots is enough. I've lived in higher density housing and even in our particular neighborhood, along with three bedrooms, we'll ask many times to have three, four cars, sometimes more. So I don't think that even two spots per unit is enough in general, but I would think you would do at least provide two spots per unit. You did your study on Honam, but I think that the- Chad, it looks like we lost you for a second. We've paused your time. If you could please re-accept the prompt. Okay. Okay, perfect. Sorry. You can- I'm not sure where I got cut off, but I guess I was stating that I don't think the 67 spots is nearly enough. And- Chad, could I ask you just to hold for one moment? I am so sorry. We, our timer, we had a glitch to give us just one second and we'll get you back to 215 where your time was at. Okay, go ahead. Thank you so much. Okay. So there's my internet connections unstable. Let's see. I have no idea where we are anymore with this being an online meeting. And I guess my statement was around the 67 spots. It's not enough for 50 units. You need to have, in my opinion, at least two, probably more parking spots per unit. I know you may have done studies, but I don't know if they were here in Santa Rosa because I've lived in high-density housing and most people even in homes or high-density housing have more than two cars per unit. Given the higher cost of housing, people are doubling up. Any family that has multiple adults will have multiple cars. The other concern was that you did your study based on Horn Avenue parking and I believe you need to also study Stonehenge and Demantryer because that is pretty much directly across the street in adjacent. And you might also consider putting in a crosswalk other than just at home because people will probably be crossing jaywalking and cross there, across Summerfield. That's all, you can stop the timer. That's all I wanted to state. Thank you, Chad. Next we have Dolores. I'm gonna send you a prompt to unmute yourself and can you please state your name for the record? My name is Dolores Flynn and I live on Stonehenge. We have some comments about this project. I'm gonna turn it over to my daughter because my voice isn't very strong right now. Hi, everybody. This is Karen Flynn. We live a few doors up from Summerfield and very close to the project and we agree with so many of our neighbors who've stepped up and shared their feelings about that density and everything you've heard. We just wanted to make for the record. We have concerns about the overflow parking on Stonehenge as well. And a couple of other things, the extra noise that will come from populating that corner of our little neighborhood with that many people all at the same time and that will be new to all of us. We also have some concerns for the children that will be living in an area like this that there really isn't anything planned for them. No play equipment or anything to keep them busy and safe and off the street. So that's kind of it in a nutshell. We're appreciative of having the chance to speak up and especially so late in the game on this call. So thank you very much. I would also like to add that the design of the project is really a project. I grew up in the San Francisco for many years and I know what projects look like. And this is something that Santa Rosa should not have. It is too beautiful to have a stark group of buildings that just started part of this beautiful area. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. And Dolores's daughter, can you please state your name for the record one more time? I didn't catch that. Yes, my name is Karen Flynn. Thank you. My name is Dolores Flynn. Thanks so much to those additional public comments. We really appreciate it. And again, this is concept review so it's not an official public hearing. So we do have the ability to kind of open and close public comment like that. So, and I know the board appreciates your comments. So with that, I'm gonna turn it over to the board here for questions of the applicant and staff. I know I have a couple still, but I'm hoping you guys will ask them instead of me. So with that, I will turn it over to board member Wolski. We're gonna put Sheila in the hot seat tonight. Okay, I do have, maybe I'll just arrange mine by applicant first and then staff network. Yeah, that sounds good. Thanks. Okay, great. So let's see, I don't know if we're provided with this but I'd like to know one, the square footage of the community room. And then there was a comment in the narrative about I think it was the one bedroom units that were the phrase that was used was affordable by design. So I was just curious what that meant in this context. Also bike lockers, I think they're provided for, and I'd like confirmation of this for all units in both the patios and the balconies. That is it for the applicant. Maybe I'll just move the staff one in here really quick because it's just one question. I'm curious if a hard copy, something we can look at materials and color board is available for us to come into the office to see because I'm curious about a couple of the materials. Thanks. So I think the way, so Monet, let's do that one real quick, material boards. And then I think probably Ingrid can answer the three questions that Sheila asked. I can ask the applicant to provide that in the past when we were in the office, we would get the board showing all the materials. So we can ask the applicant to provide that. So I can give it to you when you come into office. Yes, we can provide a materials board. Did you want something where we actually provide a chip of the material that we're talking about? That would be good. One of the items I'd be really interested in seeing, and I don't know how you pronounce it, but the Moz metal aluminum screen with kind of that river, silver river pattern, pattern running through it. I'd like to see that. Okay. I could also... Maybe you have a full panel, but... I could also send to you their website. Moz is a company based in Oakland. They laser cut aluminum panels and tint them to custom colors or standard colors. They have a group of standard patterns. This is one of them, but you can also customize whatever pattern you want. They're used internationally, but they are a homegrown product. Great. Thank you. This is something we could also request as our wrap up tonight that they bring for final design review for the major design review, that they make certain to bring us, or at least beforehand, give us a materials palette. Who knows, maybe we'll be in person with it, but we could just make certain that they do this when they come back. Okay. And then to answer quickly, your next question about the community room, that's approximately 900 square feet. And then Sheila, did you quit the question, answer about affordable by design? Not yet. Oh, yes. That's another term used, I guess with planners, that an affordable unit can be affordable simply because it's smaller and so their rent will be lower. And not because it's tenure is restricted to a certain income demographic. Great. I, some people use it in different ways. And I just wanted to make sure it wasn't the design of it for any reason on the end. No, all the units are planned to be equipped with the, you know, an equivalent level and grade of appliances and materials. Great. Thank you for that. And then just the other thing about the bike lockers, I mentioned private bike locker storage for units. I wanted to confirm, is that in the upper units and the upper two stories as well? Yes. Every unit has an outdoor storage room or storage closet where we can outfit that with a hanger for a bicycle. You'd have to take it up the stairs, the bike, I mean, but for those units, the 10 units in building B and the 12 in building A that have secured garages. I mean, obviously you could put as many devices you wanted into those garages as long as they fit up there with your car. So. Okay. Thank you. Sorry, just taking some notes, apologize. Board members, Sharon, questions of the applicant and staff? Sure. Thank you. And thanks everyone for a presentation so far. And thanks to all the public for showing up tonight for your comments. In addition to Sheila's question about the materials, I think one thing I'd want to see when you Ingrid, when you just mentioned that there could be a, there will be a storage unit, potentially with a bike hanger on each unit. I'd like to see that specced as well, just kind of see what we're talking about and how big they're going to be and how much of the outdoor space for the units we're going to be taking up with them. Yes. Yes, we will do that. Right on. We normally do. I'm sure you do. Yes. Yes. We just like to kind of spell things out because it makes everyone's life easier when you come back. Right. Thank you. Follow up to that as well. Well, not really related to that, but a question about the ingress and egress. I heard mentioned and I believe it was you, Ingrid, that you asked Sutter for access to the summer field entrance, but it was denied. I'm just kind of curious. I just want to I'd like to clarify. Yeah. The the neighborhood meeting was was very, very active meeting. And the citizen who called in might have in error misinterpreted the owner's statement that there was a connection, which there is not. There is no connection between this project. The owner, the project team or SAY. However, this project was originally designed with two entrances to be sensitive to exactly what this has been expressed. And at the time, the owners, the property comes with a percentage of of ability to use the easement that is a dedicated fire access easement off of summer field. However, in developing SAY and I believe my understanding is that in their conditional use permit to put that facility over there, that they had the right to to take ownership of that easement. I don't really know the legal terms. I don't want to speak wrongly here. That's all that the owner was expressing at the original neighborhood meeting that originally we had requested permission from Sutter from SAY and from their attorneys to use the easement for access to this project. And it was denied. OK, would that be access to the west side of the project to their parking lot? Well, actually, was it access to actually to summer field road? The project was different then. Yeah, had a progress on to the easement that exists currently to summer field road so that people would be able to go out onto summer field but not in from summer field to control the traffic on summer field. That wasn't a very early development when Bill Rose was still on the board or with the city. He said that it would be better to restrict that to just egress. OK, but that was Adam, Adam, I think, Adam, I think Ingrid there's a it looks like an access road to the south, which then ties in to a parking lot to the west. I think that's what she's talking about. It runs past a couple of parking lots, but it looks like it's a dedicated EVA access lane. That's correct, Drew. So that's what she's talking about. And it sounds like through an iteration, there was a pullout onto that to go go to the east and then turn right to go south on summer field. Is that correct, Ingrid? Yes, it is. OK, but then that went by the wayside. It sounds like because of, you know, the inability to utilize it for whatever reason. Correct. I don't like to speak on that. I'm Matt Pasanese. I'm on behalf of the owner just to clarify what was just said. So it's all kind of summed up nicely in the early stages. We did have design that incorporated that driveway off of summer field. We in attempting to talk to most, if not all of the surrounding businesses, we introduced ourselves. We had conversations, those conversations everyone very far regarding that driveway. And we, like as has been said, multiple times we have no affiliation with SAY. We just hope to be their neighbor. OK, great. Thanks for the clarity on that. This is curious on that stuck in my ear. Well, thank you. Next, moving on to Don, questions for you and and, yeah, thanks for for getting the information about the Don Redwood. And yet, it's, you know, they're beautiful trees and do have a really interesting history, but are not protected. And I mean, I have two of them as bonsais in my backyard. So they're great trees to have. But, yeah, they're a cool story, but not rare and protected. And then, Don, I'd love a question just for you about the tree species that you've chosen for the smaller planter areas or what people are terming the smaller planter areas in the eight foot, just like you'd explain for everyone why you chose those tree species in particular and their growth. OK, so the Ginkgo biloba, I selected, is called Autumn Gold and it tends to have a more narrow stature. You know, I'm fully aware of the tree canopies spreading and going into the buildings and, you know, by design, the the landscape spaces are small, you know, and that's that's acknowledged. But, you know, we're just trying to pick a plant material that is appropriate and will grow into the space that's provided. So the Ginkgos are there. There's some crepe myrtle in there, which are fairly small trees. You know, along the backside of the structure on on Haun, those are all columnar maples. So those two are very narrow. They get 15 feet across. You know, my I think it's it's all about exposure to sunlight. And I think, generally speaking, all of these trees are going to do quite well in the interior courtyards. I did use some of the columnar maples there as well just to provide a sort of a shade space in the riparian corridor or not riparian. That's the wrong word. It's actually a bioretention area. So, you know, we have some Japanese maples in there. And, you know, on the on the on the outside of the project, both at the pedestrian entry, as well as the drive entry, we have olives coming in there. So we're really, really trying to use tough trees, drought tolerant trees that will survive and will flourish in this kind of scenario. Great. I just wanted to give you a chance to provide a little more context on that. So thank you for explaining those. My pleasure. And that will do for my questions. Thank you. Thanks, Adam. And Board Member McHugh. Any questions of staff and or the applicant? Muted. John, you're muted. Sorry. Sorry. Thank you. My question is to the applicant. And it has to do with the color pallets you chose for the buildings. And they appear to me to be industrial in nature. I mean, they just it as I was reading the agricultural building design and you talked about and it speaks to cement plaster, stucco walls, and it speaks to cement plaster, stucco walls, and clay. I just I would like to have seen something that was a little bit more attractive in a sense that those those walls just seem to be bland and the the structures just in terms of how they how they present themselves. Just to me have no personality at all. And so I'd very much like to hear why you chose what you chose and what you can do to make them a bit more in my judgment, more attractive to the surrounding area. I know that you were looking at the campus at SAY and that part of it. But I don't know that that's a good match. And I'd just like to hear your comments regarding that. We did try to create a residential campus. And so in that sense, that was probably the only way that the surrounding development inspired this project. We wanted to be campus like as well to unify the four buildings in a similar language. The color clay is a neutral color and cement plaster is a natural material. When it's applied to a building with integral color, the color tends to reflect the light around it. It's not flat like some kinds of plaster are because it is a living material. Cement plaster has a reflectivity to it in a depth that poly different kinds of different kind of plaster might not. And so I wanted to be contextual with the foothills and the park environmental setting, the setting around this building. I feel like the presence of the park is a very strong one. And the Sonoma Mountains and the valley. And so I think that's where the palette is inspired by that. If the drawings did not live up to the vision, that's a failure of our trying software and we can bring in a real sample. And I will look into adding color or changing the color to address your concerns about the aesthetics. Thank you very much. I just feel that it just looks industrial. We've seen some projects recently where, you know, industrial buildings all the same color. They don't really, I mean, there's no personality there. And I think if you had a different approach, perhaps, that the buildings might be more attractive. I know it's tough to do with renderings. I mean, it's all conjecture and that sort of thing. But what I'm seeing is just, to me, it's just bland and not attractive at all. Yes, I have written down your comments and we will address them. Thank you. John, is that it for your question? That's it. Okay. I guess I have a couple of questions of the applicants and our staff. So while we're on just exterior finishes, what's the thickness of the exterior wall? Is it a two by six? At the exterior, well, yes, the exterior walls are two by six, but above where the parapet goes beyond the roof the detail shows it as thickened up to 12 inches, I think. No, I was just concerned with just the exterior wall itself, just like the regular old boring exterior wall. Yeah. These are type, these are type 5B buildings. I suppose they could be type 5B buildings. And I suppose one could build them as two by fours, but we drew them as two by six. We haven't had a structural engineer analyze them yet. So at that time, I'm sure that we'll arrive at, you know, wall assemblies that conform to the building code. Cool. Thanks. So I've got a question about kind of HVAC. You know, typically in this type of building construction, we see, you know, generally HVAC units mounted on the roof. You know, those types of things. Have you guys put any putting of that into consideration as of yet? Yes. They, the, the project is all electric. And so water heating will most likely be with heat pump hot water heaters, which could be located inside the exterior storage closets in order to provide the adequate ventilation for them. The project may have a P tax system in every unit. Or conversely, there could be some sort of central heating and cooling system in the, in a drop ceiling located in a drop ceiling within the unit. There is also a mechanical room space in every building that we have allocated for any centralized, you know, management of the solar system, the solar energy collecting photovoltaic system, or the, any sort of heating and cooling equipment. Yeah. The reason I ask is like, so, I mean, for those of you who don't know a P tax system is the best analogy is when you go stay in a hotel, it's a fancy pants wall mount unit is really what it is. And, but with these types of structures typically, even if they are all electric and you're going to a heat pump or you're going to something like that, you generally see kind of a suitcases suitcase condenser on a roof where you're heating and cooling your coolant lines then run down into some sort of either wall mounted or maybe, you know, ceiling mounted delivery system for the, the conditioned air and generally speaking. So I guess there's a reason why I've asked the question. So I just wanted to at least ask kind of where you, where you were on HVAC currently, so I appreciate that. We can also locate the suitcases you call it on the roof, but at the stairways that are located. These are garden apartments for the most part, except for the building D and so there's room for them to. Okay. And then so kind of tied to this, but the, so the gable space on building the big building, building D, right? Is that the big one? Yeah. There's no occupiable space in the gable space at all, right? It's not like a secondary because I'm not seeing dormers or anything like that. It's just attic space essentially, right? Unless we vault the space with a scissor trust. Yeah. Right. For the interior. Yeah. And then the rest of the buildings primarily have much smaller gables and, and they're really just, okay. It was really, I was asking about building D. So the answer is that question I had. Okay. On the trash enclosure, I noticed that it's underneath building B, but in order to like reel the trash out, you have to like block parking spaces. So I mean, I guess what's the functional as the applicant, as the developer thought through how kind of like pulling, you know, 10 cubic yards of trash cans out of there, like on trash day, how that's going to work with like parking and all that. Have they thought through that? That is that the trash enclosure is in one of the tandem bays under building B in building B and there's a roll up door there. So the trash truck would park in front and there would be a period of time when people would not be able to get in and out of the project while that trash is being removed. Yeah. I just, I'm not seeing the roll up door like on the, the drive aisle side. It looks like there's three independent roll up doors on, I guess the south side, which hence my question, like how the, how the heck do you access that kind of thing. And if you're saying that the trash truck actually comes around and pulls in and drives north to pull them out of that. I think that's, I'm scratching my head on that one. The trash vehicle, collecting vehicle would come in from Hoenn Avenue into the alley driveway and drive up to the last tandem, set of tandem bays under building B closest to the courtyard. And then the roll up door and essentially that the trash bins, three of them, two, three cubic yard bins and one, one cubic yard bin would be rolled out after the roll up doors that similar to all the doors on the, the garages. Once that door is rolled up, the trash would be rolled out onto the driveway and the, the truck would, would dispose of the contents and then use the fire truck turnaround to turn around and head back out to Hoenn. Yeah. I just, I don't think it's actually indicated that way on the plans right now. And that's, that's why I'm struggling with that. If that makes sense. There was a late addendum with this trash enclosure in building B. And it may not have been, I mean, you might not have opened it. I noticed that at Monet did, did put it in there, but I submitted a change to the site plan. After attempting to try to gain another parking unit, parking stall prior to this meeting. And I just, this might be my opportunity to also address some comments from this, the public. There were several comments where the, they said the developer did nothing to address their concerns in the meeting of September. So the applicant did two things. They authorized us to rework the plan. And we added two spaces at that time. And we all, the applicant also asked W trans to do the expanded study of the on street parking. And then after an in-house meeting with Monet and Rob Sprinkle of traffic, we went back to the plan and, and that's hence the delayed addendum, the late submittal of the changed site plan. And we relocated the trash enclosure. And we found another parking stall. And that's how we're at 65 now. Thanks. I appreciate that Monet, it looked like you had a plan up. Could you bring that back? Yes. That's the one Ingrid sent me the last time. And I had included in your package and great. Let me share my screen. This is the site plan you send me. And I have included in the package. Sure. Yes, this is it. Okay. So there are two. Yeah. Could you zoom in there to the, where we're talking about the two cubic yard, four cubic yard, four cubic yard. Right. And there's a door, a rollup door that might not, it's not indicated on the plan. I see that. But there would be a similar rollup door. In front of that. Garage space. To the West. Yes. Right. To the West. Okay. Yeah. So you see why I'm struggling with this, right? I'm like, there's no door. Yeah. I mean, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, what are you planning to do? I'm like, what are these dang things out? Yes. We'll make sure that we put a door in there. All right. Perfect. Thank you so much. I mean, I still think it's a little problematic the way it is. Yes. I mean, I was a tradeoff between one. It's a tradeoff between finding one extra space. Because of to address these concerns. And for the, to inconvenience these residents, you know, I think that's a good question. Cool. Thanks, Ingrid. Okay. Let me see here. I think I have. Okay. So you spoke about, um, You guys had talked with Bob Sprinkle about traffic. So what, uh, Is there any, Has Rob really started any processes in house right now to really talk about traffic or anything? Or is that still kind of a forthcoming element? Yeah. I think that's a good question. Thank you. Thank you. I can't answer that question because they think was at the meeting too. Um, this is daily. Again, we have been talking to Rob Sprinkle, um, off and on throughout this, but I don't believe that they've seen the traffic study or reviewed it yet, but they, they absolutely will. Yeah. And thank you, daily. I think that the point being is that again, we're at a really early stage in this project. And I think that's the point. I think that's the point. That's the point. So I think that's the point. So if somebody was just completed, you're still putting the finishing touches on it kind of thing. And. And the applicant hasn't actually, you know, officially declared this a project, right? To the city in terms of the formal application. So I think that's important to note. Right. And it wouldn't be. It wouldn't be formally submitted until there is an application. So that's the correct. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Awesome. So thank you for that, guys. I think that's the point. I think that is for the applicant, maybe for Matt. So, you know, I don't want to get too much into the leads with kind of project financing or anything like that. But is there an overriding driving factor? Why 50 units have to be placed on this project site? Is that, is that what makes this project pencil? Is it 40 units? Is it 45? I mean, that's a, I think it's a valid question. I mean, I don't need to know the ins and outs of, I think it's 40 units. Yeah. I mean, I'm not sure if it's the city or the employers and, or whatever, but does the unit count make the project pencil? Is the pretty direct question? Well, yes. Of course, the unit count makes the project pencil. When this project was initially. Or what was initiated. And now we're talking. You know, the idea came to us September, October, 2019. Clearly there was things. It was a different environment. cost, number cost, all that. And really at the time we thought, you know, we looked at the applicable codes and also the state density laws and actually intended to put upwards of, I want to say 52 or 53 units here and, you know, given the constraints with just the space in general and the parking, which we knew would be, you know, a point of contention and we have, we have tried really hard to listen to do what we can to, you know, to accommodate the neighbors and they had the comments of us not listening. That's completely false. But back to your point, it got to 50 and it is anything really below that number. The project is just in pencil given current construction costs. Thanks. Yeah. Okay. And can I add to that one more thing? Oh, sure. Go ahead. And just so, I mean, none of this is going to be on the scope. There's been plenty of other things beyond the scope tonight. But, you know, we are, all of us are local Sonoma County residents have been for 30 plus years. We're not some big development company coming in and trying to, you know, build as many units as possible. We've had every intention to try and work with both planning, design review and, you know, our surrounding neighbors to see what can work in this project as it's been stated multiple times tonight. This is a concept design review hearing that has not been formally submitted. This is still a work in progress. So we're here to listen as with the last neighborhood meeting, which I know this board wasn't involved with. I have read every single email that has been sent. I have responded to the ones that I feel, you know, pertinent questions that need to be responded to that would wouldn't be answered in this setting. And I think for the most part, most of those questions have been answered, maybe not to some satisfaction, they have been answered. So I just want to let you know, we're not some big conglomerate development group coming in, trying to squeeze in as many units as possible. We've all lived through the fires as well. And really, you know, what we see there's been referenced to a press Democrat today. There was a press Democrat article last week about this area needing 58,000 housing units in the next 10 years. We're trying to provide to do those. So with that, that's all I can say at this time. All right. Thank you very much. And then I guess this is my last question and it's question of staff. And I may have stuff mixed up in my brain, but isn't the Hoenn Avenue corridor part of the recent surveys that just went out for Santa Rosa Forward? Or am I mixing that up with Montgomery Drive and Farmers? Am I mixing that up? Amy Nicholson. It doesn't sound, maybe Amy can help me. Can you repeat the question? I'm sorry. I was coordinating with the recording secretary. That's okay. No problem. I was just asking, isn't the Hoenn Avenue corridor at least part of it, at least a piece of it, part of the most recent traffic surveys and development surveys that just went out as part of Santa Rosa Forward, out of the general plan update, or not general plan update, but it's like an infrastructure survey that just went out. You know what I'm talking about? Or am I like totally losing my brain? Is it something about capital improvements? Maybe Sheila knows. That doesn't sound familiar with the general plan update effort, but we can. I chimed in on these. They're doing two areas. I think it's East Street, Fourth Street from East Street to Farmers, and then the same length of Montgomery Drive, and I believe Denton Avenue may also be a separate study that they're looking at. But Hoenn is not. So I'm getting my wires. Okay. All right. So I'm getting my wires, which is okay. That happens. Hoenn was recently, no, I'm sorry, Summerfield to Hoenn was recently restructured, and actually Hoenn as well with some bike lanes and other traffic calming measures. Yeah. Okay. Perfect. So I think we got that answer. So sorry for my mix up about that. I was just kind of thinking in the back of my head like, hey, if that street is part of this, the neighbors should participate in that to potentially drive change that they mentioned about the traffic issues and all that stuff. So anyway, I guess I was mistaken. So I apologize. So at this time, I'd like to take it back to the board, and we're going to do our comments for the evening on the project. And John, I'm assuming you want to go last before me. So I'm good. Just give me a thumbs up. Okay. Thumbs up. All right. So Sheila, are you cool with the hot seat? Sure. All right. So comments on the project. Comments. Okay. Let's start with the things I liked about the project. I think that the two-sided open balconies provided a really interesting look to the project and provided an openness that I haven't often seen in projects that have been submitted. I do think I like the laser cut aluminum screen with the rusted copper, but I would like to see that on a materials board to get a better sense of it and how it's applying to this project. We have design guidelines that talk about varied windows, and I do see those are incorporated in this project. I appreciate that there's bike storage for the residents, and also design guideline providing balconies and patios has been achieved with this project. I think of all the elevations, I like the Building A east elevation best. It had the most interest to me. And then maybe some things to consider. I don't know if there's a way to change the site to accommodate the trash and the trash bins, but when you tend to block off whole areas from and people from leaving during collection periods, that becomes problematic. So I don't know if there's any way to move enclosures to the west backside of the parking lot, but I was thinking that would give a better circulation inside the project site. Let's see. The facade extensions that are shown, I think I forget how tall they are. I've got the plans up. I could probably check it out, but at any rate, you know the ones I'm talking about with the little cutout in them. They're on Building B north and south elevations. I just kind of found those a little unharmonious, and I don't think they add value to this project. I would like to see more some design elements, something added to distinguish between some of the floors. There's some Building A north elevation. You've got, I want to say it's probably close to 15 feet of just straight stucco with nothing else. That's also apparent on some of the other elevations. So I think something has to be added to create less of a, as some people have mentioned, this stark appearance. I see it there whether or not there are no other design elements. And I asked the question about the common area and the square footage of that, because we do have a design guideline that speaks to common areas and then stimulating or encouraging interaction among the residents. And I can see the community room at 900 square feet doing that, but I can also see if there's a workout room or something like that where you would happen upon someone else. I know that it was mentioned that there would be a barbecue and fire pit area. I didn't think I saw that on the plans. And while the Arbor and Fountain area are really, I think, aesthetically pleasing, I don't know that people are actually going to be spending time in those areas. I think they're more for the benefit of looking at, but I do appreciate that those were added. And also for me, in terms of the architecture, this kind of triangular parapet, I also didn't think that added much value to the project. I was thinking maybe more like extended needs would create, the parapet just adds more height to the project. And I think we're trying to maybe lessen the effect of that or even find out if a waiver is appropriate for this project. Let's see. I would like to see a shadow study provided. I think that would be important in demonstrating, maybe there isn't as much of an issue with the height we're only going over, let's say, a parking lot area or a drive aisle and not necessarily other housing, but I would like to see how this looks in a shadow study. And let me see. I don't know that I would necessarily support, but I don't know. I would not want to take bikes at the hallway. And while I would like them to be secure, I don't think I would ever do that, carry a bike up a hallway. So I would be supportive of providing more bike rocks. And even if you have an enclosure, if someone has a high end bike or something like that, I think I would support more bike racks on the ground level. And yeah, Chair Weigel, thank you for bringing up that some of these issues about the parking will be brought up to the appropriate staff because there is no parking on Summerfield. So that will be interesting. Okay. That is it for my comments. Thank you. Thanks, Sheila. We'll go to Adam now. Excuse me. Adam, for his comments on the project. Excellent. Thank you. Thank you, Chair Weigel. Thank you. I remember Walski for your comments, and I will definitely endorse her comments as well. I definitely capture some of my thoughts. So, yes, in terms of the design framing element that you've run with of the gable end parapet with the Cotswolds for the example of being your design element, I think that you've accomplished with taking inspiration from that. And I think you've captured some of the demure kind of calmer elements of it that kind of recess into the background. It's neutral toned. It's clean. It's tidy. But I think that if that's what you want to go with, I think that this you've achieved that. For me, my first reaction is to I want some more interesting architecture. I think that you can try and have this large development kind of recede into the background to recede into the site as much as you're trying to and to fit into the neighborhood. But I think that as John mentioned before, it's referencing the industrial and commercial buildings around the site as well. We don't necessarily need to hold those up as shiny examples of beautiful architecture and good design. They're functional. But are they really the things that we really want to emphasize? I think that with taking this idea of the gable end parapet, you're taking the more utilitarian side of things and trying to make it more interesting and more traditional. But I think that there's also an opportunity here to explore some other ideas and to maybe look at something that's more interesting. I don't want to say interesting. Excuse me. That has some of the more articulated forms, as Sheila mentioned, with some delineation between floors. Does the parapet, as Sheila also mentioned, is it just adding height? What can you do with that sort of excess space, flat roofs? And so I say this only as a way to when you come back, I would encourage some other design ideas as well. The flat faces, they achieve the idea of what you're going for. But to me, I'm interested to see, because I know your firm is capable of coming up with really interesting solutions to tricky problems and tricky sites. What this site is, the next part of my comments is this is a really tricky site and you're maximizing the use of it. You're needing to get in as many units as possible to make it pencil. It's providing a lot of density. I'm all for the infill and use of this. We always say and everyone always says that we need housing and we're mandated to do housing. But maximizing infill is key to that, I see. And so while there aren't necessarily large buildings and large developments here in this part of town, there will be more. And there's more all around town as well in the inner city and in the county. One thing that has been mentioned is we're just around the corner from the southeast greenway, which eventually will be both open space. Well, the plans are for anyone that knows are still being formed, but there will be open space nearby. There will also be potentially housing and multifamily housing similar to this. So I don't see a large development like it's necessarily sticking out and being atypical. And so I think that going along with your use of the space, I'm troubled a little bit with the circulation and also with the outdoor space and amenities that are provided to all of these units. I did have the question about the entrance, ingress if this is what we have to work with with the entrance on Hoenn, that's what we have to work with. But I'd want to just look as creatively as possible at outdoor spaces and outdoor amenities that you can do. If you're encouraging families to be here, there's a great point brought up about a lack of any play space or any child space here. There's going to be families. There's one bedrooms, but there's also multi, the four or three bedrooms and the four bedrooms. There will be families here and with that are kids. So we need to have places where you don't have to walk necessarily many, many blocks, a place where something can happen there. And so I know that yeah, it's a constraint of the same. But mainly my comments are, I encourage you to think creatively about how you can bring interest and amenity to what you're already providing here. And I know with the team that you have, you've got some great creative minds. And so I do look forward to what you bring back to us. And thank you for bringing us a really thorough concept review package. And I do thank you. As I've been talking, you've been rolling through your explanations of your design choices. And it really did a good job in explaining your design thinking. So continue. And I look forward to seeing this when it comes back. Thanks very much. Thanks, Adam. So we'll go to John for his comments. Thank you, Drew. I'm generally supportive of the project. And I endorse the comments of my colleagues. And one of the things that for multifamily residential, one of the goals is to develop multiple family housing that encourages residents to take pride and a sense of ownership in their neighborhood. I'm not sure at this point that the design does that. And so I'm encouraging you to be creative in terms of how you're looking at the exterior, the issues with respect to the trash collection, those kinds of issues I think are problematic and something that you need to pay a little bit of attention to. I also, the public comment regarding their children here, but yet we don't see any play areas, that sort of thing. And so I would encourage you to do where you can incorporate that into your design. There are positive aspects to what you've done. And I don't want to discount those. But I am concerned that to me, as I said before, it just looks too industrial. And I don't know that that would be something that residents would take pride in and a sense of ownership. So the other thing I wanted, and perhaps I should have asked this before, but is there going to be a manager in this complex or how's that all going to work? And I'm sorry, I should have asked that before, but I forgot. No, I'd say it's all good, John. So if someone from the applicant team could mention, is there a onsite manager? Or yeah, I'll respond that there will be an onsite manager out yet. Yeah, our intention is to have an onsite manager of the property. Okay, thank you. Those could put my comments. Thanks, John. Appreciate you. So I guess I have a different take on this maybe, or maybe the same. I would agree with everything that's been made. But and I agree that Charles Rennie McIntosh is a modernist architecture master and all the art that he did and arts and crafts stuff that he did. But I would actually, I would say that the Hill House is like not his best work. And it's perhaps not the best building typology to use. And also I would say the thing that the applicant didn't convey perhaps is the Hill House actually has like some curved elements on other sides of it. And it's not just rectilinear. So there's a curved bay window on one side. And there's a, I think there's a kind of a unique element on another side of the Hill House there by and it's in Scotland because he was the Scottish master of arts and crafts. But don't get me wrong. I love McIntosh, but I don't think it's necessarily the right inspiration for California when we have say Irving Gill or James Osborne Craig or Mary McLaughlin Craig for all that they did in White Stucco in San Diego in Santa Barbara. And I mean, if that's the type of flavor that you're going for with White Stucco, which can be absolutely stunning and beautiful from a sense of Spanish, you know, kind of a Spanish Renaissance Spanish business style revival. I mean, when I initially saw this, I thought, oh, well, that could be an interesting take on how the elevations are handled and how the, you know, the materials are applied because they started to see some of the components of that coming together. I think some of the balconies with the what appears to be wood kind of on the interior of the muse start to evoke that sense of type of architecture. And so when I saw the gables and then the discussion of the Hill House, it I kind of got smacked across the face like, wait, what? We're taking two different architectural tiles and kind of smoosh them together. And so I really, I think you guys would be better served to eliminate every single gable roof on this project. Go flat roof, bring everything down with scale, because I think what we're hearing from the public is that this building's too big. And so what's happening is you have these gables and they're huge and they're creating additional height to the building that you don't necessarily need. So I think, you know, looking at some Irving Gill's work in particular, with some of the beautiful stucco that he did, a lot of flat roofs, a lot of parapets. And that's why I ask questions about HVAC equipment, because I think the design as it stands right now, you're going to run into a brick wall with how to heat and cool all these units in such because there's so many of them. I think there's a constructability issue with how to heat and cool them. And I think going with flat roof solves a couple of problems. It solves a public comment problem that everybody thinks these buildings are too big, which they very well may be. So if you can bring the scale down, that certainly helps. But then it also solves a functional problem with where you put all your HVAC equipment. Sorry, my children are babbling in the background. So to that end about the architectural style, I have a real issue with the metal laser cut panels. And don't get me wrong, I love laser cut panels that we're using them on some projects we use. We've used Moz metal, we've used Bach modern, we've used Paris au lait. They're really cool, functional, awesome material, but they do not fit in this aesthetic. And so I think a different solution to the security component is needs to be addressed. And you could do a panel of some type, but I think it needs to fit within the architectural style that you're trying to achieve. And like I was saying, it feels like there's some pieces of this Spanish mission style kind of showing up. But then it's also got this Scottish modernism kind of stuck on the ends. And it's not cohesive to me in terms of how this might work. And so I think you just need to abandon the gable scenario. And I think that will solve a lot of the issues that we're hearing from the public. Let me see here. So I have a big issue with the Muse. I think it's going to be bathed in shade and darkness all the time. So I'm wondering how to fix that. And is it to reduce the size of building D that allows more light in there? I mean, you're going to get morning light and you're going to get after evening light. And that's about it. So the rest of the day, it's going to be a dark hole of shade. So I don't think anything's going to grow in there. And I think so that to Sheila's plan, I think we really need to see a shadow study to see what's going on. But I don't think it's going to work. So I think you guys really need to re-evaluate that and how that operates. I love the idea. I love how the buildings do interact with one another, but I'm not sure it's the right orientation to make that happen. It would be better for the north-south, right? Because then it's going to be lit all the time, except for in the morning and in the evening. And so it would benefit, you know, the shade trees would benefit in there. You know, the dry creek bed would change how shadows are hitting it. You know, the frost would change throughout the, you know, what there's due in the morning and how that's in the dry creek bed. That would change as it warms up and cools and whatnot. So I just don't know about that. I'm really, really, really concerned about the egress kind of this parcel, the fact that there's only one point at the egress. And it's so close to holling, too. I mean, it's like right on the right-hand turn lane. Basically, when the right-hand turn lane starts to happen on holling, the bike lane kind of ends and merges up. I mean, this egress is like right there. And so I'm really, I have significant concerns about that working functionally from a traffic perspective, given the amount of units that are in here. I don't know about the lack of parking. I know there's a lot of great research about parking right now in terms of different unit sizes and different unit types and locations close to transit. I don't think we have that same scenario here. I know we just saw a bunch of projects that were right next to the smart station that are next to bus stations that are kind of connected that way. I don't think this project is connected in a similar way. And so I think the residents that are around the parcel are probably roughly very concerned because this is a parcel that is not easily accessible via transit, at least as I would think. And I may be missing a bus station here or two. I don't know. But I think that's going to be a potential problem. I mean, I am certainly sympathetic to the fact that you need to make 50 units work to make it kind of pencil out. But I would seriously consider looking into this a little bit deeper and to see if that's really the density that makes the most sense given what we know about, given what we know about access to transit and how access to transit does in fact reduce parking capacity because people are utilizing different things like biking, buses, you know, those sorts of things. Yeah. But that's the only bus stop, right? There's one bus stop. It's not like it's a transit-oriented district where there is no parking. And people are looking to move there because they don't want a car. I mean, this is, I think, something entirely different from that perspective. I'm super concerned about the planting question about the survivability of plantings and kind of eight feet. I know Adam didn't really speak to it too much, but I have concerns. I think some relief, I think, from adjacent parcels is probably what's needed. And so that planting strip maybe needs to get bigger to accommodate that relief, to let this be not a professional building, let this, because it's surrounded by professional buildings, right? It's not surrounded by residential. And so it doesn't have a very great, it doesn't have a very good buffer between the alternate uses around it. So there's, I think there's a connectivity issue in how this relates to the adjacent parcels that needs to be thought out a little bit more. And it's one sec. I got children. One second. This is what happens when you have elementary school aged children that are getting ready for bed. So I apologize. Adam knows, I think, he's got an elementary age kid. And I guess my last comment to, or second to last comment, penultimate comment. There's a lack of foresighted architecture to all of these buildings. And I think Sheila was starting to allude to that. So for example, building A is the east elevation is a very engaging elevation, right? It's got pushes. It's got poles. It's got different materials. It's got balconies. It's got open balconies. It's got metal. It's got stucco. It's got garage doors. I mean, there's a lot going on there, but it's very ordered and organized and very clear kind of what's happening. It's a very complete elevation. But then we go and we look at the west elevation of that same exact building, and it is completely flat, right? There's no relief to it whatsoever. And so my question about the depth of the wall really has to do with kind of if you're using a material like cement plaster, that you're actually allowing for depth of the cavity of the overall width of the wall, right? So to meet energy code right now, if you're using stucco or efis, it doesn't matter. If you're using a two by six wood stud, you've got to put continuous insulation on the outside of it. So not only are we talking about insulation in the cavity, but we're talking about continuous insulation on the outside, perhaps two to three inches, and then probably an inch of stucco on top of that. So what does that get you? That gets you depth. So what that allows you to do is you could take your windows and push them all the way back. So to create some relief and shadow on those elevations just within the plane of your exterior wall, which I think will help some of the flatter elevations start to become more intriguing and interesting. And so that's what I mean by four-sided architecture in that. We have very flat elevations kind of on three sides of the building and we have a really engaging elevation on one side. And I think that's the case for building A, building B, building C, and building D may be the one exception, because there is a little bit of relief. But if you look here, and yeah, that Monet's got this up. I mean, the outsides of the project are very flat. And like, hey, don't come into my project. There's nothing here. Don't come into my project. Look at my big flat wall of nothing. And it's not very engaging or very And so then I think I lost my comment here. I'm sorry. I've lost it. I'm sorry. And so then I would say, I guess my last comment would be don't let the parking be the struggle or don't let the unit count be the struggle that impacts how the architecture is being reflected. I know Warren very well. I know Paul at your office very well. Paul can take a look at this and maybe make some changes. And I know Ingrid and Ingrid, you and John are talented as well. I think you guys can take a look at this and find ways to add some interest to it, to reduce kind of the scale and the feeling of how big it is. Because I think that is an issue. And oh, I remember the last thing. The Sheila mentioned it. It's actually supposed to be a faux chimney, I think. And I don't think it really has a place, right? Because it's just because it's out of scale, right? If it would make more sense if the building was much more, much shorter, it would feel like a perhaps a faux chimney, but instead it just kind of feels like an arm sticking up a little bit. So I think there's some good bones here, but I think you guys need to really go back to the table and really bring the scale down and take away some of the verticality and start introducing some horizontality to start making it feel more pedestrian friendly, particularly on the three elevations of the sides of the buildings that aren't engaged at the moment to the scale. I think the interior of the muse is very engaged to the pedestrian scale and also the vehicular scale. But I think then the exterior is not engaged to that at all. So I apologize if perhaps my comments are feeling a little harsh, but I think there's there's some nice things here that you could just really amp up and take to the next level that would fix some of the hiccups, I think that that are occurring with the public comments. So you not only have a beautiful project at the end of the day, but a project that also pencils and that the community can also potentially take some pride in as well. Because I think we all can agree housing is important. Let's build some housing, but let's do it in a thoughtful way that engages with the surrounding buildings. And that's exactly what the design guidelines say. And so right now I think it's a we're at that kind of tipping point where it's not exactly engaging with what's around it in a way that makes sense. And I think I'd be really interested to see what the traffic study kind of reveals to us about this kind of one entrance exit situation because I've driven on Hoenn, my kid's dentist is on Hoenn. I do not like driving over there. It's a little bit scary in terms of how fast people drive on that street to connect to Highway 12. I've got a friend who lives over here and he barrels down Hoenn all the time, like a maniac. So that's a significant concern of mine knowing that particular street. So I think that's it for my comments. Does anybody have any additional comments based on anything you've heard from the rest of the board? Gila? Just one thing to note. I noticed when Planner Shake Hall, I brought up the location map. It showed a bus stop I think south of Summerhaze. There is a covered bus shelter on Summerfield right outside the SAY. And I think Warwick has or Sutter has some connection to that too. And I'm guessing SAY may have had to put that in, but that does exist. That's good to know. I think, yeah, I mean, some connectivity to transit. I mean, particularly if you're going to start reducing parking is important. So that's why when I saw this, I went, oh, there's one bus stop within, you know, a quarter of a mile, whatever it is. That was particularly concerning for me, because, you know, people aren't going to walk more than a quarter mile, half mile to go to the bus. And really, it's probably a quarter mile. So, Adam? Drew, yeah, I just, I wanted to thank you for your comments. And I thought it was very clear-eyed and constructive. And I think that the applicant team could do very well to heed them very well. So thank you for your comments, Drew. Thanks. John, anything else? No, I think you've covered it. All right, thanks. But, yeah, I'm excited to see this come back, hopefully with some great changes. And maybe we've, I don't know, by getting rid of some of the extra fluff, it ends up being a little bit cheaper, which would be great, right? So at this time, typically what we do is we turn it back over to the applicant. If they've got any questions about the comments that they heard, if something was just kind of like, hey, you crazy designer view board, what are you guys thinking? So do you guys have any comments or questions of us about, you know, kind of the way we saw everything in the comments that we made? Matt, would you like to speak? Matt? Matt wanted to check if the owner wanted to speak. Yeah, Matt is showing that he is unmuted, but we are not hearing his audio. Oh, okay. No, I do not have any comments. Thank you. Thank you to the board for taking the time. I know it's been a lengthy meeting. And, Ingrid, thanks for you and your team for your presentation and all the great documents that you provided. I think we've, I forgot to mention that there was a lot there to take in. So I appreciate that. And it looks like Matt's raising his hand again now. So maybe we'll get his comments. How about now? Okay, sorry, the air pod's done. I wanted to thank all the board members for your time and also the neighbors for their comments as well. Definitely, as I said earlier, we're in the early stages. This is the second inning of a nine inning game. So we're hopefully there's baseball to come back to. But we're looking forward to getting together and kind of seeing what we can do, giving you guys his comments. If I'm, I just want to answer one thing. I believe there are three bus stops within a quarter mile radius is what I've been instructed. But I know we've seen two. So there's at least two. I believe there's three. But it might be half a mile. Ingrid might be able to correct me on that. Yes, there are three. Okay. So we definitely factored in transit as part of this. One of the things that we I don't think has been mentioned at all. We are currently exploring the capability of implementing a car share service through and we've talked to various companies, most recent of which is get around that way would further reduce the demand for actual cars in the property. And to where the residents can open an app, check out a car for an hour to go to the grocery store and come back or however long they wanted it. So it's something we're currently exploring. It's kind of a give and take as far as do we do that or to lose parking spots. But we're definitely we're definitely factoring in everyone's comments. We will reevaluate and definitely bring back to you guys. Hopefully in the near future. Thanks. We appreciate you guys. So at this time, we'll move on in our agenda. I guess, but before I before we move on, the one thing that I'll note. So for all the public comments we received tonight, thank you so much. They'll all be entered into the record. And please, when you see a notice for the next meeting for this project, please, you know, send emails come to the meeting. At that time, maybe we'll be in person in the council chambers at that time. Wouldn't that be great? So, but please continue to comment and provide your insight to your neighborhood. I know, again, I want to reiterate our board does take public comment quite seriously. And we tend to implement public comment into the conditions we add to projects. So as a general rule. So with that, we will end item 8.1. And before we go to adjournment, I do want to mention something. So myself and vice chair, Birch, oh my gosh. So Michael Burtz and I, we both have a planned absence at the next design review board meeting, which will be on March 17. So the longest standing member of the design reward with us not present, Mr. Adam Sharon, will be chairing that meeting in our stead. So I have all the faith in the world and Adam, he's been on the board for, I guess, three years now, three and a half years, something like that. So I think he's more than capable of chairing the meeting. And so I don't know if I need to officially appoint him or anything, Amy. But that was perfect. Just what you said. Okay. Awesome. So any final parting thoughts, Amy, are we ready for adjournment? I think we're ready to adjourn. Thank you. Awesome. So let us adjourn at 8.01. Have a great evening, have a great weekend, and we'll see everybody in a couple of weeks. Well, I won't, but everybody, see you in a couple of weeks. Goodnight, everyone. Goodnight. Thank you.