 What is your name? Donald J. Horowitz. These days, I like to be called Don Horowitz. Well, OK, as I mentioned, I started out as a law clerk to a justice of the Supreme Court who said to me one day, when I became a judge, I decided I had to be a better person. He said that to me. I was fresh out of law school. And we had about a six-month conversation about that, and it very much affected me. He was a true mentor. And then I practiced law, as I said, in Olympia and the small towns around Olympia. And then I came to Seattle, and I practiced law in a small firm doing a lot of trial work and also civil rights stuff. And I did that for some years. And then I was asked to become the chief attorney for the largest department of state government. I was a senior assistant attorney general, so-called. And then I became a superior court judge, and that's a trial court here in King County. But also, if there's somebody needed in another county, because maybe they know the lawyers involved or something, you can go and do your judge thing there. And that's often interesting, too. And then after, I wanted to be more active, if you will. I loved being a judge. I learned an enormous amount about many things, mostly myself, because you have to learn about yourself if you're going to be a good judge, if you want to be fair. Find out what your little issues are. And then I went back to practice and joined the Access to Justice community, where I've been highly involved. And I still do a little bit of practice and arbitration and mediation, as well as practice. But I do mostly, I'm working on finding ways to give more people fairness and meaningful justice and equal justice, no matter how many dollars or what your background is. And we're making, this state has making, it's still got a long way to go, but we're making very good progress in this state. And we have some wonderful people in our legal system who give a lot of free time to making things better and to helping people who can't afford it. But we need to fix that, that the infrastructure, it'll make it a lot easier for everybody. But you have to be very wise when you're doing that. And you've got to have people other than just lawyers and judges making the decisions. You've got to have people with other aspects to their lives because every person has a lot of aspects. And you're trying to tell the stories and play the games involving those people. You must learn how to listen. Because whatever you're doing is affecting other people's lives, sometimes forever. And you want to keep that in mind and not get too, how shall I say this? Too sold on yourself as being the wisest person around. It's a learning process because there are cases involving chemistry or physics. And you've got to be a learner for you to be fair. And then after I left the bench, I practiced some more and I got particularly involved in the new technologies as they were emerging. And I thought, we now have a tool and we will not be able to avoid having that tool. Hopefully we can use that tool to make the justice system easier, less expensive, fairer, better. And I've been working on that for quite a number of years. I've been involved with the Information School at the University of Washington. I've been involved with law schools here in the state, including Seattle U and UW. And we've tried out a lot of things and we've been pioneers. And we were the first people who put together something called the Access to Justice Technology Principles. And the idea was for those principles to enable technology to help us reach the values that are in the Constitution of fairness, the values of fairness and accessibility and equal justice, which had not really happened very well. I mean, it's better than most places, but it still wasn't reaching poor people, people with disabilities, minorities, and so forth. And we felt that technology gave us an opportunity to do that and that it could break down the obstacles and barriers for people who didn't have a good chance of getting fair treatment. And there aren't enough lawyers, et cetera, et cetera. And the technology can be of great assistance. And I've been working on with that for almost 20 years. And that's how I met some of the people here. And I think we're getting better and better at it. And one of the remarkable things is we, our state Supreme Court in 2004, adopted the Access to Justice Technology Principles to guide all the people in the justice system on the use of technology so that it would be fair and just. And it's been quite good. And we were the first in the world to do that. I hadn't realized, I thought we were the first state, but I later found out we were the first in the world. And it's now been, since 2004, when we adopted it. It's almost 13 years later. And a lot of things have changed. And so we're going back now, and we are in the process of reviewing and updating and improving the Access to Justice Technology Principles, because it used to be that a telephone was a telephone. And now it's a computer. And it's all kinds of things that give us good things and some not so good things. And we have to learn how to make it work and enable people to, again, have a better chance at being heard and avoiding problems and so forth with that. But probably the most important thing we have to do is recognize that the justice system in this country was put together, the infrastructure of the justice system was put together in the late 1700s when the Constitution of the United States was put together. And at that time, most of our jurisprudence came from Britain and places like that. And the stated purpose of the justice system was to deal with white males who own property. Those were the ones who had access to the system and got great advantage out of the system. And now we're supposed to serve everybody. See, I wasn't just saying that as a political statement. That was a fact. And now we're supposed to serve everybody. And we haven't changed the infrastructure of the justice system since the late 1700s. It's time we did that. Can you imagine driving a horse and buggy on a bridge back in the 1700s, which works fine. But you still have the same bridge and you have a great big truck going over that bridge. It wouldn't work very well. And so one of the things we're doing here in this state is we're beginning the process and trying to get national help to literally change the infrastructure. Why should people have to go to work? Everybody have to go to the courthouse when they have jobs, for example. Why can't we use technology so that people with disabilities can testify or do things from a distance? I mean, there's just a whole bunch of different things that will ease and equal what we can do and make things less expensive and more available to the public. And that's what we're working on now. And it's exciting. And we're getting a lot of multidisciplinary people involved, not just lawyers and judges, technologists, but also all kinds of other people. Because it's like what's happening in the health system. It's easier to get good medical care if people are devoted to it because you have a lot of better medicine. And we want to build the best medicine in the world and have others be involved with that. So what do you think about this game, Jam? I think it's wonderful. I think it's early. And I think it'll learn a lot. But I think it's really a very good idea because most people love to play games. And most people love stories. And what you're doing here is you're bringing people, I think, and if you watch basketball, every basketball game is a story, isn't it? Or baseball. Or things about people competing in other ways and playing games. And it's a story. And the story is affected by the background of the people and by what circumstances they're in. So it's not just about traditional games. It's about the games of life. And that's what I've seen here tonight. And as you folks improve, first of all, the technology, but not just the technology. As you improve the use of the technology, I think it can be revolutionary because people will want to learn from what you're doing how they can do their lives better, particularly in this instance in relation to the law and how the law operates and how we operate in relation to the law. I'm delighted that I'm here at what appears to be fairly early in the process. And I hope I can be of some assistance. I certainly learned things tonight, not just about the technology, but about how to use it. And I think it's not just going to be good. It's going to be very exciting because people will go to it and try to learn how can I deal with this? How can I use the games or play the games in ways that enable me to live my life better, particularly as it relates to the opportunity that the legal system provides? What do you think about some of the games that you saw tonight? Well, I think what I said was you have some very good techniques and you have some very good ideas. And I think it's at a point where you can begin now thinking about how to mature it, how to get it more effectively to the people who are listening to it so that they can relate to it and learn how to use it better or not just assertively, but sometimes to hold back and figure out how they can be most effective in a game. I know basketball pretty well. I played it some. And so you can decide, is this the time for me to pass? Or is this the time for me to take a shot or defend in a particular way? And I'm not just using basketball. Soccer is the same thing. I think you have to learn how to use the games and how to design the games so that you can be most effective. And we're at the beginning. But I saw a lot of very good things here that can be developed and be very, very useful to enable people to live their lives better. And that's what it's about. Nice, very well said. And just so I can make sure I cover all the sound bits, can you, for the last question, just reintroduce yourself and briefly describe your past? Well, let me tell you that I was raised in Brooklyn, New York. My parents were both immigrants. There were eight languages spoken on our street. This is in the 1940s. And it was a very interesting way to grow up. And it was during World War II. And I'm the oldest of five children. And when my mother was pregnant with the fifth child, my father came down with polio. And he wasn't very much able to work after that. But my mother insisted that every one of her children were going to get an education. And she didn't quite know how, but we all did. And that was the pathway, if you will, to our doing well in our lives and appreciating the possibility of an education. And a lot of times, we didn't know where the next meal was coming from, but somehow it happened. And now I'm not the only one in my family, but then there are a lot of people like that. We used an education. We used what we could so that we could live a decent life. And we always found that there was somebody there who could be a good mentor or a helper. And so one of the things that most of us, and certainly I, do is I want to give back. I have no choice but to give back. I wouldn't like myself if I didn't. And so I came from a background that I think relates to a lot of what you're doing. And now I'm on the, I don't want to say the other side of it. I've grown from that background. And hopefully I can be of help. And I certainly want to encourage techniques that I didn't know much about until I met people like Brian and so forth and so on. I guess that tells you a lot about myself. And I had a very varied legal career. I also taught some at CLU and in the law school and love doing that. And here I am and I'm an old guy now. And as I grow older, I say thank you for the opportunity to live the life I have lived. And I'd like to give others the opportunity to do that. And one of the things I love that we were able to do is we reached a point, my wife and I, when we were able to endow a scholarship, but one at the information school and one at Seattle University Law School that will help others learn and have careers where hopefully they'll give back. It's a great way with a scholarship that you can in a sense live forever because you've helped somebody else who'll help somebody else who'll help somebody else. And that's very nice to feel when you're getting older.