 Okay, well I want to welcome you tonight to our virtual open house for the Master of Archives and Records Administration program. And our agenda is a brief one, but it takes us a while to get through it. We want to introduce you to the iSchool and to the program, explain what the MARA degree is and how it's composed of a number of courses. And then what it's like to be an online student to actually participate in those courses and then we'll have time for questions and answers. I'm the person there at the top, Dr. Franks, and I'm really excited about this program. I think it fits perfectly with the needs for archivists and records managers to see the entire process from creation all the way through preservation. We have Dr. Sandy Hirsch as our director of the School of Information. You'll see her name sometimes on websites and she does hold open forums for students. Dr. Linda Main is our associate director. She's a person who has all the answers as far as courses, curriculum, and rules and regulations. Sheila Gertrude is the online student advisor. So I'm the academic advisor for all of the MARA students, but Sheila is the person who can straighten you out when you're trying to get permission numbers for courses and things like that. So you'll see her name quite often on her website as well. And then our primary faculty, you heard Dr. Lisa Dalby just a minute ago. And then we have Jason Kaltenbacher, who teaches a couple of courses for us. And he also is the coordinator for the new Informatics program. And then Joshua Zimmerman, who is an high school lecturer right now. He's teaching our research methods course specifically for archivists and records managers. And then our student assistant is Kenna Walker, and Kenna has a little message here for you. She works for me as a graduate student assistant, and you'll hear about some of the things that she accomplishes later on in our presentation. I'm going to turn this over to Lisa now and Lisa is going to talk about the program itself. So Lisa, do you want to take over and I'll be happy to move the slides for you when you're ready. Thanks so much Pat and hello everyone and welcome to the open house. I'm very excited to be speaking with you all I am speaking to you today from actually Toronto, Ontario, Canada where I live. And I've been teaching in the MARA program since 2009, which means that I've had the opportunity to teach a number of students, all of the students in the MARA program again welcome. And I'm happy to answer any questions or if you want to contact me after the after this session I'm open for that as well. So next slide. The benchmarks. The original framework of the program was really bent was really made on a few important benchmarks. When the MARA program was developed, what was really considered for both course content as well as the overarching MARA program framework was the ARMA course competencies, core competencies and ARMA for those of you don't know is our professional records management professional association, and also the Society of American Archivists guidelines for graduate program education. What is also really important component of the development of the program was the certification of three very important certifications in our field. So much of the course content is as well as the framework of the program was developed on the certification and analysis of the certifications of the Institute of certified records management, which is called the CRM certified records and the Academy of Certified Archivists and a little bit more recently the information governance professional certification from our ARMA professional association. What I think is really great about the program is that by competing the program, you will qualify, and we'll talk a little bit about that later, you'll qualify to take many of these certifications, just based on the course content that you've taken within the program. So this is really an exciting opportunity that we want to talk to you about today is that the iSchool has developed a really special relationship with one of the certifications I talked to you about in the previous slide with the Institute of Certified Records measures that if you take, if you qualify as you graduate from the MARA program, you automatically become a certified records administrator, and this really bypasses you taking five out of six required course exams. So I think in recognition of the content of the MARA program, it really, it really goes a long way in preparing you for certification. In fact upon graduation you become a certified records analyst, and if you just take one more exam within the certified records management program, you become, which is part six, you become a certified records manager. So this is just really a really great kickstart to your career upon graduation, and it's just an excellent relationship that we have developed with our certification accreditation bodies within the field. In addition to the certified records management body, the Academy of Certified Archivists, also an accrediting body has also reviewed and approved all of the 10 core courses in the MARA program. And so what will happen is that upon graduation again, you will bypass sort of many of those preliminary steps which require you to prove that you've, you know, taken courses and whatnot. These courses are, our courses are already approved and really all that would be required was you to sort of register for the exam and then you would become a certified records archivist. So the MARA core competencies. The MARA program has 10 overarching core competencies and really these are the objectives of the program and really our commitment to you. This is what you will learn and be competent in as you graduate from the program. I don't want to read them all out, but these core competencies are really the foundations of the profession. And note that many of these program core competencies map directly to competencies in each of the courses that you will be assigned to. And even we, even as instructors, map these core competencies to assignments. So, you know, and, and again we can, you know, highlight a few which the competencies cover ethics and standards and legal and regulatory requirements and having a global perspective and, you know, being in tune with information technologies and preservation. Again, I won't read them out, but what is really important about these core competencies and I will stress on them again in a later slide is that you will be required to demonstrate your competencies in what we call an e-portfolio. Before I jump into the e-portfolio, I just want to highlight the required courses within the program. Students are required to take 14 courses, 11 of which are required and you're seeing the 11 here. And 11, really within our program, each courses is called 13 units. And so then you would have 33 credits. But just to like to break down the required courses, and I will talk a little bit about our electives in a future slide, is that we begin the program with sort of what I call the introductory courses, which is MARA 200 and MARA 204, which really are the introductory courses. We talk, you know, you'll be exposed to records and information, the records and information professional. And then we will, you know, you will talk, you will be exposed to just the, you know, 204, which is our management course. And then as you go from 200 and 204, we go into in the program, what I call the life cycle management courses, where we will get courses right into like records creation and appraisal storage. We'll get, do a deep dive into digital records and digital records management, content management and digital preservation. And then we move as you become closer to the end of your program, we take courses that are more seminal, sort of seminar type courses. And we focus on specific, in like hot topics within the industry. And currently, two hot topics within the industry are information governance and information assurance. So those courses will closer to the end of your program. And then as Pat mentioned, there's a research methods course that is required. And we close your educational program, what is called an e-portfolio, which I'll talk about in a minute. We also have the opportunity to take internships, which we'll talk a little bit about as well, which is an important part of the MARA program. So you've heard me talk a little bit about the e-portfolio. So students are required to demonstrate knowledge of the 10 core competencies that you saw me speak to in an earlier slide. For each of these core competencies, students will be required to demonstrate that they understand it and what the core competency means to them. And they need to provide evidence that they meet this requirement, generally that means submitting, you know, two or three course assignments for each comp. And what is really great is that creating this kind of e-portfolio of all of your work at the end of the program, which is kind of like what we call a capstone project. It really just demonstrates that, you know, it just showcases your work. And I've seen students tell me that they have taken their e-portfolio and really turned it more into a professional e-portfolio or even just used their e-portfolio. And it really helped them get their first job and or that promotion that they were looking for. And it really is. The e-portfolio is really just, it's a testament to your work at the program. So course rotation, this is just a sample of course rotation. For example, students entering the course, the program usually generally take three years to complete the program. But this is just really what we're showing you to hear is just a helpful guide, but is by no means the rotation that you have to take. I've seen students complete the program in two years by taking, you know, three courses a semester. But this is a general course rotation, which generally takes three years, which will just take you, you know, to take two courses a semester and maybe one summer course. But that is not necessarily the track you need to take. You can take up to seven years to take the program, which, you know, in that schedule, you will be taking one course a semester. And what students really love about the program. And we really see this according to our exit surveys, which students are who are graduating, you know, have the opportunity to comment on our program. Is that they just love this flexibility of the program where literally they can finish their degree in two years, or if they, you know, or want to do it in seven, that's also an option. And if required, they can take a term off and for whatever reason for, you know, family or work responsibilities. And what we really want to stress about this slide is that you are not alone when you are picking your courses or or figuring out the rotation that is specific for you. Dr. Frank says your advisor will absolutely help you and guide you through this process. Your faculty advisor as well as your course instructors myself will always help you in the selection process. In order to allow students sort of the opportunity to customize their program based on their own interests, students can select. In addition to those 11 courses of required courses that I outlined in a previous slide, students have the option to select three additional electives from the wider MLIS program during this program. And here you can see from this extensive listing, you can pick from these three. And as you can see, there's some really awesome courses like digital curation, information privacy, project management, web. I often say that I wish I could be a student again so that I, you know, had the opportunity to go back and take some of these like really cutting edge and relevant courses in our profession. This list of courses is reviewed by our program advisory committee. We have a committee that is made up of really industry experts in the field that advise us on the program. And so really this listing ensures that the electives provided to you really provide you with real skills you need for success in the profession. And I think the electives are really just an excellent addition to and compliment to the MARC core courses that I outlined previously. Also within the MARC program, students can choose to take an advanced certificate to compliment and enhance their degree. So in the wider SJSU iSchool program, there are three what we call pathways to certification. One is in digital asset management, one is in information governance assurance and security, and one is in digital data analytics and decision making. So these are, if you select kind of your electives or want to take a one or two extra courses, these are really great certificates that you can take while you're at the school to, you know, to accompany your degree. They can easily be accomplished by just selecting the right target electives and I think they just look awesome on your resume if you can manage to do that. So one of the most popular ones for the easiest and what most students who enter the program do is is is the information governance assurance and digital security certification pathway. If you just take, you're required to take two courses anyway, which is the information governance course and the information security information assurance class. If you just take that, if you just take that one extra course in information cyber security which you could take as an elective by taking that one course it automatically gets you this certification so it's really important to plan your electives but I just think this is like an extra nice to have. And I think that takes me back to you Pat, thanks. Well, thank you Lisa and now we'll take a look at the courses that are offered in the spring. If you were joining us next fall the first two courses you take would be a little different. I'll mention that in a minute. But if you decide to join us this spring the application period is still open. And you would start at the end of January. And in the spring. I teach one of the courses that we recommend that our students take it's March 283. And it's a fun one we start in Office 365 and SharePoint so students learn about all the components for Office 365 in the cloud of course. And then SharePoint we spend quite a bit of time on even getting into the records retention and labeling aspects of SharePoint. Then we go to the middle of the term about seven and a half weeks in, and we take a look at what would happen if we have records then they have to be kept permanently. We concentrate on a preservation system. It's by Preservica it's a commercial product. The vendor has been very kind and allows us to use it for free. It's very interesting and it allows us to ingest digital objects, transform them into other formats to make them visible on the website so we use WordPress for that. So this is just one of the courses that you would be suggested recommended to take in the spring. You'll see it's an ACA pre approved course all of our courses except for internship organizational consulting project, our ACA approved that's the Academy of Certified Archivists. So what that means is if you go to register to take the exam they look at your coursework to see if you have the foundation to give you approval to sit for the exam and all of our courses combined to give you that approval. So you'll see the little ACA I think by almost every one of our courses. There are prerequisites on this one, however, we moved it down a little bit in our program so actually if you're a brand new student I'd be giving you permission number to take this. I also in the spring we recommend one of those courses that Lisa mentioned that go along with the records life cycle it's records creation appraisal and retention by Jason Kaltenbacher. And this is along with 283 of the two courses we would suggest you take if you want to complete the program. Within a little under three years take two in fall to in the spring one each of two summer sessions, and you will be able to graduate the May before the end of the three year period, or for those of you starting the spring, the December before the end of your three year period. There is a third course in the spring and Lisa mentioned that some people graduate as early as two years. And that's not the majority by any means but we've had more people do that what they're doing is doubling up a little bit they're taking at least three courses a semester and a few in the summer and Lisa teaches a 249 management of digital data information and records. And this course could be your third Mara elect or Mara required course if you'd like to take it in the spring and move through the program a little faster. This is an example of what our courses look like people often asked me you know it was like to be a student and I have a Kenna here will have her talk a little bit later and she could explain to you what her feelings are about being a student online. But this is how I set up my course each week I have a module that opens up might open up on Monday and then close the following Sunday night. Other people may start on a different day and close at the end of their week, which will be a different week. For example, some open on Sunday and close on Saturday night. This one when you see the module, what's included here are lectures, some of them many of them have videos within them they have links to outside readings, you'll see discussions here. My discussions I asked you to respond to my discussion by Thursday night, and then I respond to somebody else's post by the following Sunday. So you have a week to participate in the discussion, somebody once asked me I these many papers I said well yeah I guess you can think about them that way because you're trying to write intelligently about a topic it's not just a discussion what did you think about this is an actual topic where you expected to do a little research will have some type of reference to support what you're saying. But it's great learning exercise. That's not the only focus of my week so in this class, because we do a lot of work online. You don't pay for the software that you use you're just brought into these two programs and you'll see that in my to for this class. You're already learning to create a SharePoint site and declaring your record and you would be graded by me going into SharePoint and checking to see that you actually did that. And then you'll see down at the bottom questions optional not monitored you help each other. And it's a very collaborative environment, our program is so wonderful because of the students that are in it, who help each other along the way and that's that's what we hope is happening. We have a jobs analysis that's conducted each year canna, who you'll hear from shortly is working on one for this year, but our most recent one was published last January, and we identified jobs in different groups. We look at archival jobs archival records jobs it's a mix records management jobs information governance jobs, and then a lot of them are going toward records and information governance combination we're seeing that information governance. I think the first time we looked at it was like maybe 1% now we're up to 7% there, and also a mix of records and IG titles that are advertised statistics. Some of the statistics, we look at where are the openings and quite a few of them are in education government and nonprofits, but you see that's closely followed by business, and then financial energy and aerospace. So, we have a lot of industries that need the skills that our students possess, and you're quite capable of filling those positions. Interesting. I'll get to the slide a minute and interesting comment about was made by one of our advisory committee members who has interviewed our Mars students as well as students from other schools and she commented on the inability for a number of students coming to understand the management aspects of what's going on in the workplace she's the state archivist for Vermont actually, and issues very pleased with the emphasis that we have on management administration leadership within our program. Salaries for women IG of course we like to show you this one because it looks pretty good here, but it depends on what you're looking for if you're just getting into the field it may be that your salary is going to be lower if you're making a fresh start in a new field. However, if you have experience, it could be up in that middle or higher end of the salary range. And now what I'm going to do is turn this over to get it who I said is one of our students and could tell you exactly what it feels like to be a student here, but she's also going to be describing things that she does to enrich our program so can it would you like to take over. Yeah, hi guys thanks Pat. I'm Kenna I'm Pat's assistant and I'm also Mars student about to enter my third and last year. So I came in special session and I'll be graduating December of 2020 so just over a year from now. Right now I work for a law firm in Cincinnati I'm our record supervisor here. And that's kind of how I found the Mara program. My undergrad was in sociology criminology and women and gender studies so not quite a fit but you know with the law firm it really sent me over to the record side and I love it so much so that's how I found Mara. Thank you. So with that said I do a lot with our social media. Pretty much anything Pat wants me to do but a lot with our social media so on this slide you'll see our high school curriculum center. And on this page you can find dates and information relating to the high school you can find our calendar. Just a really good resource to keep in mind as you go through school and it kind of helps keep you on track with everything going on. And then at the bottom you can see our high school student blog. This is written by our current students and it's provides you with important information resources and other useful advice including posts about our courses careers online learning time management and more. And you can see that we did in August a day in the life of our high school student Kyle. He is he's working in the field and he just told us all about you know his time management and how he gets through school and work and he has kids and a wife. He's kind of Superman so he's I believe he's on par with me he's been in a bunch of my classes so. It's just something good to read especially if you guys are coming in with families and you know full time jobs like a lot of us are so it's a good thing. Next you can see our Mara blog this is something that I manage and write for so this is more specific to our program tomorrow to records and archives. And we just read about our current news maybe something that came up about records and or archives. And then we also do student spotlights here like you can see we did one on our current student Sam Henley. He's had a bunch of good internship experience so his spotlight was really interesting and good to read for students, you know as we go through the program. This is our student Nick. Oh gosh Majewski. I'm sure I'm butchering that but he was just elected to serve on the archive space board as the vice president of the governance board and we're super excited for him. The archive space is a software that's used by archivist created by archivist so it's pretty popular in our field and he's just a great example of what you can do with with our degree. Next you can see our Facebook group. This is SJ SU Mara. You're welcome to join and there's just a couple questions I think, you know to make sure that people that should be in our end and people that should not be in our group are not. But just, you know, fill those out will will add you to our group and you can interact with our current students. I think Lisa and Pat are on there. I'm on there. And we post, you know, general announcements things that are coming up for our program for the high school. And it's just a good place to find a community and to keep in touch. I know, going to school online sometimes you don't feel like, you know super involved in your school and this is just a great way to get involved you can see this picture that Pat posted here all that info con so as me and Pat and some of our other students and friends of our school so that was really cool. And we just share that with everybody so they could see this. This you can see some of the webinars that we do. This is just one. There's a lot. I think we shoot for two a semester. And they are held on a variety of topics you can see Helen struck she's the president and CEO of Kaizen info source, and she gave a guest lecture on implementing ECR or ECM solutions. That was back in September and if you go to the next slide. We just had Dr. Dolby talking on GDPR something that's super big in our field right now something to really focus on. And these webinars are held live but they're always recorded so you can view them anytime on the high school website under webcasts. I think it takes just a couple days from the time the webinar was held to the time we get it posted but they're always available to see and you can always look up different topics that you're interested in if you know maybe GDPR isn't something going to learn about something else. There's hundreds on there. This is an upcoming webinar. This is the junior Yasinov and she is a former student working in the Capuchin archives in Detroit. This is not about monkeys although you might think it is but she did a lot for the province of St. Joseph of the Capuchin order and she's giving a presentation coming up in the spring. She's done so much since she started this job and it's just so relevant to everything that we're learning. She walked into this archive repository with really no organization or anything like that so it's coming up. It's going to be super interesting so that's going to be on February 4th. Next slide you can see we have something we call the CARA and it's a virtual center for archives and records administration and it takes place in Second Life. There's a lot to learn about Second Life but it's this virtual world you can see those pictures on the bottom and we have all sorts of you know activities in there, things to learn and look around in. You can interact with classmates and we recently just had this virtual worlds versus virtual reality smackdown event that was great and it's actually going on the road. It's going to be at the open simulator community conference in December which is super exciting so the webcast I think it just went up. If not it's going to go up as a replay if you'd like to see that but we have events in there and it's a really great place to connect as well. That's it, that's all for me. You can see Kit is really excited and involved in her work and we always have a student assistant who handles most of the outreach for students. In fact one of our former students is the one who puts together the Facebook page in the first place because she thought we needed one. So if you are part of our program you could help us grow and improve along the way with your ideas. But what I wanted to talk to you about now is why San Jose and Wybomar program. These are taken from exit surveys students tell us that it's a quality faculty who have work experience not just teaching experience and draw upon that work experience bringing into the classroom. The program itself the technology that we use but most of all the other students so we as instructors learn from our students I think sometimes as much as they learn from us. Opportunity to learn from our experts as you saw through our guest lecture series and through our student second life activities. And then also the cost it's pretty standard since I started here in what 2008 the program started and the price has not changed. It's $474 a unit you pay only for the number of your courses you take each semester so if you take a three credit course it would be three times 474 if you took only one credit course it would be 474. But regardless of how you package it together you have 42 units which comes to $19,908 for the entire master's degree program. You can take between two years and seven years after seven years your courses that you took early on start dropping off because they're old. There are absolutely so much happens in this field that we have to keep up so it's very difficult to catch up if you get to that seven year mark. But you do have that long and we've had people take four years five years that I know of I know if one person who completed it just under seven. The application process, you're required to have a bachelor's degree with a 3.0 GPA, a minimum or any master's degree. If you talk to our students you'll see that they come from all kinds of backgrounds my background is business so a number of people come from history communications we've had them from I've had paralegals in our program. And I mentioned her background is quite diverse as well. Now when I say the three point GPA. If you don't have that for the entire program. We don't do this but the university graduate admissions office does they'll look at your last 60 units of credit to see if that is a 3.0. If so you're still admitted if not and a number of students that currently are with us were in this position. They're go back and take a few more courses at another school to bring that GPA up so that they can apply again application period for spring as I mentioned we're still taking applications until December 1. You haven't told December 20 to get all of your documentation in classes started I think it's January 24 around there. And then the application period for fall it's also open right now it closes June 1 so you want to get your application in before then and all of your documentation in by June 20. Now we do have some scholarships for new students. These are directors scholarships for excellence. And if you are admitted to the program, you would be able to register for those apply for those. This screenshot here says December 2018 but what you want to do this year is getting in by December 2019 if you're accepted by then you're eligible to apply for the scholarship. And I see this one here down at the bottom on the right. We have a deadline actually November 1 2019 so maybe that's a little beyond so I hope some of you have already applied and we're able to do that. But you will be able to be introduced to other opportunities for scholarships they can never pay for your entire program so you have to be sure that you have financing in order to be able to do that financial aid we have an office to help you work through that as well. Alright so for more information about the program. Everything is online because we are an online program so if you visit the mar website you should be able to read through the materials but there's a lot there. And it's sometimes difficult to find exactly what you want. If that's the case just send me an email and I'll be able to answer your questions and I also will probably be providing you some links so you could get some additional information from the website itself. And that's it for our canned program so what we want to do now is is stop talking and ask any of you if you have questions if you do you could unmute your mics and just go ahead and ask this question or you could put it in the chat area and we'll take a look there as well. I would like to know so I'm working as an information governance analyst right now, and I average nine hour, 10 hour work day. How many classes realistically per semester. Yeah, no more than two. And when I was doing my master's I took one I took two twice and fell asleep at the tub running and flooded the house. Oh my goodness. Poor children and working full time. So, you know, you know yourself and what your other obligations are, but some people in your situation take one, some actually take two, and no more than that for sure. Okay. As a student I would say I also work hours like that. And I think it's been super manageable. Once you get into kind of a routine of it all it's it's very kind of easy to figure out time and I don't want to say go through the motions but really go through the motions. I think it does take a little bit I think it took me about just a semester to fully adjust. I think if you're already in the field, you'll have an easier time. Not that it's not feasible but you already know some of the language and and things like that. So I think you can definitely do it with two classes. It's not, it's not overwhelming. Thank you. Do we have any more questions. You've got Ken on the line. She'll tell you like it is she doesn't hold back. I have no stake in the race. I also had a question. This is Amanda again about group activities within the program. So, if you were if are there group activities or is most of the work since it's online independent. No, I have a group. I'll answer Elizabeth's in a minute. I have group activities in all of my classes and it works really well. We're all doing our work whenever we can so your groups. We put in mind I put little discussion areas aside and just to sign groups as a matter of fact that their projects are due in December the last day class. And they then decide how they're going to get together. You have the ability to create your own zoom sessions just like this. Some people do that. I've seen some sneaky ones kind of team up and they all live in the Bay Area twice they did this and actually met at somebody's house. But most of them will figure out how to communicate the best way they can either through some of them Google work on their projects that way. We still have our SharePoint open in my class and I have a lot of students working on repositories that they're going to move into their group project so it's up to the students and it is a challenge. It's a challenge for all of us to work with people from different time zones but it is feasible and it works out very well from what I've seen Lisa what about your experiences. Yes, Pat, I do applaud the importance of group work. I have less of it in my courses just because they're the core kind of courses and but there's I have one or two small assignments that require students to work together. In terms of like working together to organize a discussion on records in the news and what's going on in the industry and then they lead a discussion and it's as much as it's an extra discussion each week for some students. That's really good feedback on on how how how how wonderful that is and and how much they enjoy it so absolutely I don't I probably don't do as much group work as you and that's that's that's great about the program some courses will have group work and some don't. But yeah, to your point, it is important because in the real world we have to work with with people. And I think, as a student, I've had a group project or two and Lisa's classes and I'm actually working on one right now in Josh Zimmerman's class and I've noticed that we've always gotten our group assignments pretty much right off the bat, if not like the first week the second week of the semester so we've always had plenty of time to get together. I've done right now we're using a Google Doc and communicating through email but I've also done WhatsApp, I've done like a Google Hangout to get us all together and the time zones can be challenging but I've actually had group projects where we're all on the same time zone which is nice. So it just, it kind of depends and it's never, it's never quite as intense as, you know, like my undergrad group projects are it's a lot easier to, I guess, collaborate because it's one defined usually subject and it's, we've had a pretty easy time, I think, plenty of time to get it done and get everybody on the same page. I'm going to move on to the question from Elizabeth, it's one we often get and there's even a page on our website dedicated to this, the difference between Amara and an MLS program. My program is Archives and Records Administration, that's the title of the program, there's no library science in it. So when people say, oh is it ALA accredited, it is not because ALA is American Library Association and we have no library courses. Well, this was actually taken from the MLS program in a way because the MLS program has some library oriented courses, but many other courses as well, and they have a specialization in there for Archives and Records. And there are some people who wanted strictly the Archives and Records and there was enough demands to create this program. If you were interested in working in a library, you definitely want the MLS, the Master of Library and Information Science. If you're looking at working in Archives and other settings, then the Archives and Records Administration, the MARA program is a good one. We have individuals working in Archives and Records and Information Governance. One of our advisory committee members we just met on Monday again is an Information Governance Manager and he is, I think he graduated maybe in 2011 from our program. He has good things to say about it. You were previously admitted, it says so valid. Mary, you're going to have to check. Send a note to Sheila Gertrude and see, but usually not. Usually they will say maybe you don't have to send in your transcripts. I'm not sure how long they keep them. So I think that's when I call on Sheila. Sheila will know the answer. Any other questions? Well, okay, I want to thank all of you for attending. We're done a little bit early, so we did have some extra time. But if you can't think of any more questions now, okay, I see one here and let me answer this before we go on. I see a couple. Do summer courses cost more? No. 474 credit all the time. There is one program Informatics, and I think that's $525 of credit, but our students haven't taken any from that program. So MLAS and MARA are 474 credit, no matter when you take them. And then early in the presentation, three certifications were mentioned, and is it required to pass? No, no. What it is is the people who are interested in records management would do well if they had a certified records analyst or certified records manager designation after their name. So you'll see some of us with a lot of alphabets after our name. I'm a certified records manager. Certified records analyst passes three courses out of the six that the ICRM administers, certified records manager passes all six of those. As students, MARA students, we have the ICRM look at all of the coursework you're taking, and they will give you credit for the five tests that cost like $100 each that have objective questions related to the content in our courses. They will say you've passed it, you don't pay for it, you just get credit for that. If you want to say you're a certified records analyst, you can immediately get that designation. You join the ICRM, it's the Institute of Records Managers, right? You join that immediately. If you want to wait and become a certified records manager right away, you sign up for that sixth part. It's a case study. And if you pass that, you're a certified records manager. If you are a certified records analyst and at some point you want to try for that CRM as well, you can do that because your five tests are automatically there in the database and all you have to do is pass that last test so you don't have a time limit that way. The other one that was mentioned is the CA. It's a certified archivist exam and it's administered by the Academy of Certified Archivists. So I'm also a CA, for example, and that there's only one 100 question objective tests for that one. So they're not going to give you credit for that because then there's nothing else you would take. But what they do is have a requirement for coursework, even to sit for it. They have looked at all of our courses and all of our courses except internship because they can't tell what it's going to be about. Our pre-approved. So if you say you're from San Jose, you graduated from the MARA program, you want to sit for the certified archivist exam, you can do that. And we had one student do that this summer right after she graduated and she passed immediately. So what we do is prepare you for the exams. We don't require you to take the exams. For the records management one, you have to graduate first in order to get the benefit of those courses. The other designation that was mentioned is the Information Governance Professional. That one is administered by ARMA and that one we don't have any type of agreement with. We are also, Lisa and I, Information Governance Professionals. It's another exam that you would be prepared for and take. They're redoing it again right now and so we'll have to wait and see what the study materials will look like for that because it's going to be changed somewhat. But that one covers legal, it covers more technology than the others that I've mentioned. You should be pretty well prepared for it, but if that's something that's your goal when you look at your electives that you can take, you want to make sure that you take courses that will help you prepare for that exam. And no, it's not required to work with the population. Definitely not. There's no requirement. What it is is good to have on your resume when you go for an interview and you're looking for a job. They will take probably somebody with the certification over somebody who doesn't have it. So it's a benefit to you. Okay, again, well, those were good questions and thank you so much.