 Bernard, I'm so interested to hear your take on this, you hinted at it in this last segment. It's this idea that there is a list in a sense of, there's like a catalog of biometric correlates to phenomenological states of experience. I really like this a lot and actually I think the more that we collectively invest into science identifying these biomarkers and especially at the building better tools to understand the biometrics, everything from EEG and fMRI to EKG to microbiome, so all over. And then taking that readout and then being able to provide like an artificial general intelligence health corpus be able to or AI coach can just, you know, provide these in these feedbacks, these insights into, you know, your heart rate variability is super low right now. You are stressed and like what's the what's the interaction that, you know, maybe going to the pool or going in a walk, right? Or whatever it may be doing some motion. So how do you you mentioned this earlier about this idea that like if we had the biometric correlate of your phenomenological state we could in a sense have like a telescopic or microscopic idea of what that is. So tell us about your reasoning process around that. Well, I mentioned earlier, I think matter is just what inner experience looks like from a perspective from across a dissociative boundary. And I think the dissociative boundary that defines us as individuals presents itself in perception as the skin, the eyes or our sensory organs. This is the boundary of this dissociative process in universal mind that we call ourselves. So if matter is that what is what experience looks like from across a dissociative boundary, then the matter of the brain is no exception. Neither is the matter of the rest of the universe, but let's talk about the brain. If brain activity is what our normal individual mentation looks like from across a perspective, of course, there will be correlations. There will be lots of correlations. I would go further and say and suggest that we could even come up with interventions in our patterns of brain activity that could lead us to certain desirable inner states. We know that psychoactive substances from alcohol to psychedelics, they intervene with the matter in our brain and they lead us to other experiential states. I would say that the psychedelic, the alcohol or the scalpel of a neurosurgeon when he's digging into your brain, this is all material. Therefore, these two are images of transpersonal conscious processes. The scalpel is what a transpersonal conscious process looks like. And it goes across your dissociative boundary and interferes with your dissociated individual experiential states. What it looks like is a scalpel cutting in your brain or a pill being digested and flooding your brain with a psychoactive substance that one mental process influences another is trivial or emotions influence our thoughts. They are different, but the influence one another. So by the same token, a scalpel or drug can influence our inner states. Both our images, our brain and that scalpel and the drug are images of mental processes. So if we can decode the neural correlates of metaconsciousness or metacognitive awareness, which is what I think they are, we can even find ways to intervene into our brain activity and force desirable experiential states by disrupting ordinary brain activity in just the right way. I think it is possible to develop this technology. And I would look forward to using it. Yes, yes. Oh, OK, this this this bit's going to it's getting very interesting. So I loved the focus there on, especially on entheogens. And I love that word because it's about unleashing the divine within. And it's without a doubt that there is a super highly correlative experiment with taking a substance that and then the agent and then having a psychoactive experience that in a sense could incrementally awaken and lighten. And so this is where I want to take this segment now. Ultimately, we're we're talking about this idea of some sort of like an artificial general intelligence that's constantly taking in all of the sensor data like you have like today we have jets that have hundreds of sensors that constantly monitor everything. But like what our body goes to the doctor one time a year. It's a joke. So the so the idea is that if if we're constantly analyzing that stream of sensor data from our body and then we gave this idea earlier that there's even something as simple as an intervention for for stress, maybe you go out, walk on a walk, etc. But there's even deeper interventions, which you were hinting at the idea that could it be possible to have a deeper understanding of a correlate of specifically enlightenment or awakening something that is so causeless joy and imperturbable peace. That is the essence of what it would be across brain, across heart, across gut and then and then do our best to nudge our society in that direction. How does that resonate? I don't see any fundamental reason why that shouldn't be possible. I could imagine that under different circumstances, it could be impossible. You could speculate that maybe our brain activity is not the complete image of what's happening in our mind. It's a partial image. So by intervening in it, you're not intervening in a large segment that may be relevant. So you could speculate about that. I don't see a reason to think that. I think measurable brain activity, at least measurable in principle. There is activity in the deeper areas of the brain that today is very hard to measure with proper spatial and temporal resolution. But I'm talking about what is possible in principle. I think we can, in principle, measure everything that plays a role in our mental states. And it should be possible if we cared to invest and if we cared to develop the technology and do the research necessary to stimulate our mental states that are conducive to enlightenment, or which maybe are enlightenment. We know anecdotally that many a psychedelic traveler traveler has maybe by sheer luck or chance arrived at the mental states that they describe as unmistakingly enlightened. You can't do that every time. You can't choose that that's where it's going to take you. Psychedelic trips are very noisy, unpredictable. They mix profound truths with profound delusions. So it's very hard to make sense of that. We don't have any control of that. But if we could develop a technology to control it better at the right resolution, I don't see any reason why this shouldn't be possible. Yeah. Yeah. There's and that's this idea of one these interventions on the awakening or enlightenment trajectory is one sort of idea in a sense. They're they're they're interconnected with these other ones, but just some general other ones where like, OK, you're having, you know, some back pain that we're getting an idea about, like, get up and go on that walk, go swim, another idea. OK, we're sensing some, you know, some ghrelin. You you you you're having this active sensation happen for you to want to eat and so but you want to fast today. So what is the intervention that could happen today to help you fast? And so what's your North Star? If your if your idea is that you want to become a deeper philosopher of mind or if you want to become a better artist or scientist or spiritual leader, whatever you want to become, what are those interventions that can help you achieve that North Star? Yeah. There is a technology. We call it a transcranial magnetic stimulation. The name is a little bit misleading because it may be the opposite of stimulation. It may actually dampen down brain activity. It has beautiful spatial resolution. It's basically an electromagnetic beam that goes across your skull and messes up with the activity of your neurons in in the desired way. And that's very promising. The problem is that it doesn't have much penetration, so you can activate or deactivate superficial areas of the neocortex, but you can't go much deeper. But that's an avenue of of R&D research and development that we could pursue to achieve exactly what you what you're hinting at. Yeah, that's that's a crucial one. And we've heard the analogies of it being like like a stadium or an arena and like you're just like outside the stadium or the arena trying to like understand what's happening on the field and just by like the bear the bear noise on the. Yeah, yeah. Fair analogy. And the tools, that's why it's so important to build better tools because the better tools enable more edge pushing to happen. All right. And it does seem like it's slowly going in the direction of an idea of like a service to self, like a more of a self dealing ego driven mentality of just survival in a reproduction towards something that is more of an enlightened, awakened service to other consciousness. Do you feel that in my optimistic moments? Yeah, the rest of the time. You know, we've taken such an individualistic turn after the 60s, especially in the 80s and from then onwards, that it's hard sometimes to stay positive. But there are some bright lights. There are things happening today that would be unthinkable not a long time ago, for instance, because of the benign influence of non-dualism in the West, which picked up steam really this century. It started already back in the New Age movement, new thought, but it really picked up steam at this century. We now have a language to talk about transpersonal mental states, non-dual states before we didn't even have the language. The lexicon, the conceptual tool set to even talk about that, to say something coherent about it. And that has led to some disasters. I mean, there was a book written about famous Western philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer. There's a book written about him in 1994 by, supposedly, expert on his writings and philosophy. And this guy had the temerity of criticize Schopenhauer. But in doing that criticism, the only thing he revealed was his utter inability to comprehend Schopenhauer's non-dual ideas, his non-dual philosophy. And why did that happen? Because, you know, I'm being kind to this professor now, because in 1994, we didn't have the language, the conceptual tool set to even not only to understand, but to talk about what that guy was trying to hint at. He had to develop his own language, which in a way led to disaster because nobody really understood what he was talking about. But now we can understand. Now I can write a book talking about these things and people share the dictionary with me. They know what I'm hinting at. So that's very optimistic. That's a good sign that things are going the right way. I try to remember this every day. Yeah, yeah. I'm so happy you brought that up. The more that we drive novel lexicon that is very clearly the essence of where our North Star is on our civilizational and individual trajectories, that's when it makes it more and more clear for us to share that corpus like you were indicating. That's so, so critical and share that vision.