 like me too well I don't understand what that means is it time to make mouth sounds start off with some mouth sounds no how would that that would definitely make the internet extra mad at us no but I'm like I'm eating a cookie what are you doing did you tweet out yeah yeah I sent my tweet okay Ryan has been sitting here silently the whole time what time is it there Ryan we can't hear you is that us or you that's why he's been so it's me he's muted that's a telling sign we didn't even know you were muted until just now I'm just saying very nice well he got up and got a drink so he came back and sat down but I forgot to press my right button you let me push the red buttons right a very big red button right so I got three cookies but I'm gonna save the last one I've eaten two of them I'm gonna save the last one you absolute animal what just destroying two cookies what everyone's like why are they delaying hey Vax good to see you it's been a whoa that's why we're doing so Vax can be here exactly everyone's angry at me so like they're coming in to tell me how awful of a human I am how terrible it does everyone know why everyone like why you're all angry at me you have the you have the Twitter tomorrow thing actually just for some pretty interesting this is what I tweeted out like 48 hours ago I said the space launch system is billions over budget years late crazy expensive to fly and not reusable and actually okay back to me back to me not only not reusable it uses arguably not hang on I have to sit up and like pretend like here we go it uses arguably one of the most epic reusable slash refurbishable engines ever yes this thing is a work of art I love this engine and we're gonna be dumping them into the ocean yep for it a time for at a time the engine we spent so much time and effort prior to the space shuttle trying to build what it was effectively the world's first reusable rocket engine is that a true statement that's a true state just a truth-ish statement true true enough statement right and you know I don't know how many people know this but like when we went into the first space shuttle missions it wasn't the solid motors that they were worried about it was the space shuttle main engines oh yeah there you how beautiful is that it is so amazing and and there's some amazing video I think it's on YouTube somewhere we're gonna get flagged for pornography God almighty look at that man you want to talk about diamonds are girls best friend of mock diamonds are engineers best friend Jesus God we didn't hang here and look at shuttle main you're okay that's we're getting you're making my diamond sorry I just can't help myself on these there's this really great video of them doing a testing of the engine and it's shot on film back in the day I'm pretty sure what's that I'm pretty sure this was a black and white shot but it was definitely done at high speed and what so the engine starts up and I don't know how many frames per second I'm gonna say 500 to a thousand probably a thousand so the engine starts up and you you you kind of see the startup transients and kind of wobbles a little bit and then stabilizes and you see this this incredibly gorgeous like flame come out of the engine stabilizes and you get the mop yeah even you get the mock diamonds just like you see there like this beautiful flame coming down it's a little bit wider than that shot and tilted down a little bit so you actually see multiple mock diamonds form out of the engine it's like oh my god that's that's absolutely beautiful dang and then at the very top of the engine you just see this little and you're like oh that was weird what was that and then you see the bottom bell kind of wobble a little bit kind of that doesn't seem good yeah and then very slowly just like you know the mock diamonds all kind of came out of the engine you see the bottom bell kind of shake and then you slowly see the mock diamonds slide back into the engine and then right as that last mock diamond hits the engine you see the engine just huge fireballs get formed out of this engine that is what they were battling with this engine for years and years and years and years they were battling this trying to make this stage combustion is really hard reusable yeah hydro locks to a hydro locks reusable engine how incredible so back to my tweet back to my tweet tool cryogenic I didn't mean to nerd I mean I did I did mean to know that organic so with all of that in mind arguably it has failed even before it's launched where do you think they went wrong or do you think it hasn't failed and my analysis is wrong so I'm basically saying in this tweet hey I think the space launch system hasn't even gotten off the ground yet and it's already failed do you think I'm right or am I wrong like what say you internet and oh oh so yeah now I will say as Jared at many people pointed this out I do like to stir the tank from time to time right so time to time time to time it's a way to put it it's a good okay all the time all the time it's hang on it's good to do it's good to do because like you get sentiment and things settle at the bottom of the tank so you want to stir the tank yeah you want striations you want it all uniform exactly so you need to do that also like it helps to kind of like you know get ideas out into the world and see other people's philosophies and usually stirring the tank is a really great thing but but sometimes sometimes you stir the tank and you blow the side of your spaceship off and all of a sudden this really cool trip to the moon is a rescue mission and that's what that tweet did it's stir the pot not the tank while I was making it the space pun so yeah yeah like I expected some pushback I worded that very strongly on purpose oh yeah yeah it was as I mentioned it was extremely well crafted to come off poorly you put in a big effort to make sure that that was an absolute poop of a question so there is a reason there's I chose my words very carefully that's what you do I know I chose my words very carefully and I crafted it in such a way that I wanted to see certain responses because I was really curious because it was something I was thinking about and I actually went back and forth on this tweet like four or five times rewording it trying to figure out like how do I get the response I need now how do I make the most amount of people as mad as possible in the least amount of words I will say it's funny how upset you can make people in less than 140 characters yeah I will say I think I should have added a third option in a would not have altered what I was trying to get at and that third option should have said something along the lines of neither it's more nuanced and yeah you'll understand why I didn't think of that up front I think you'll understand why I didn't think of that up front when I explain my my mentality but I buy bias you child oh bye I know everyone calling me like bias and like do you not listen to what okay what I'm biased ratio ratio that's my favorite done for your career so that's my favorite they're like oh your ratio and I'm like how does that relevant to anything in life ever oh who cares boom I'm replied okay so there are a lot of really interesting comments now before we get into like what I was trying to get at what is your so the tweet again so did has in your opinion has SLS failed or it hasn't failed in my analysis is wrong and I'm gonna allow you like because I screwed up the tweet I'm going to allow you the option of it's more nuanced as well it is more nuanced than this binary it either has or has not failed so it is significantly more nuanced to me the space launch system is a relic from a time before private space flight was even a viable idea I'm not talking like a viable option like okay now we can go fly on a private rocket I'm talking before even the idea of a successful private company well hang on even a thing cuz I'm not okay so you're thinking private what's up private yeah private yes but hang out are you going you we're only counting space launch system you can't go back to constellation era I'm talking about going back even before the constellation era because there have been multiple rockets in the same configuration as the space launch system proposed since the national launch system which originally began in 1991 so that was a part of George W. or George Walker Bush's vision for space exploration whenever you want to call it that I mean that was the one for his son whatever it was called this was the one that basically like we're going to the moon and then we're going to Mars in the early 90s so this way I don't remember did we do that no okay no we didn't turn turns out even now not yet but they literally have the national launch system one which is literally a eight meter tank with four space shuttle main engines and two shuttle derived solid rocket boosters from it there you go bam right there thank you right in the middle he doesn't say much but he puts images in our discord for us yep yep so there you go boom boom thank you Ryan and you got the heavy lift the second like a notice that the one with the giant you know it's kind of atlas reminiscent with the one like right like talk about powerslide yeah little bit I would have never expected an asymmetrical having lift but hey it was the 90s anything was possible right asymmetrical was in it's true so asymmetrical so hot right now yeah right now we've got it on display at Epcot this year for everyone to see look at me my CG's not in the middle so yeah yeah it was to me that is where it comes from it is still a product of the 90s of that era therefore it doesn't make sense to have responded to private spaceflight because it is just so straight and narrow the evolution of it has come through this era I mean you can go from national launch system to a rocket called Magnum which was basically proposed to do the exact same thing but for a lunar mission in the late 90s and then finally that transfers over to Aries 5 as a part of constellation and then we see Aries 5 continue in design but not named because they were like let's call it new name and no no notice so that's where we get the space launch system from and it's basically just been three decades of pinballing new names back and forth for the same dang vehicle you just made a bunch of SLS stands very angry oh yeah I know and it's great so new requirements for you know where it's supposed to be built and stuff yeah as well exactly so so so in I know that you're what that what that hurts my brain no this is the H2A 212 which Rupi just reminded me of which is from Jackson and Mitsubishi heavy industries which looks quite similar yeah yeah it does I don't know how to feel other than scared hey Bob you want industrial espionage because this is how you get industrial episode hey Bob we've designed a rocket but we can't quite figure out where the CG is would you mind running a few calculations on because it won't shift now CG won't shift when the fuel goes out of the vehicle now will I'm glad I don't what accent is this I was going to say designing this at Marshall like is that what's going on here is it a bug or a feature alright so so it hasn't but okay so it's more nuanced but is the space launch system even before it gets off the pad a failure or success that's ultimately the question I think we have to have the program run its course so so I feel like with space shuttle you really probably couldn't have said whether it was a true success or failure in what it did during its lifetime until maybe about the late 90s you could start to say okay things really aren't starting things are really not working out like they are yeah like we expect them to be things aren't working out like they are hold up so is that is that really it I don't know if that's correct grandma that's a shirt for the show things aren't working out like they are things are not going as they should okay so that's the more grammatically correct way to say it I'm American I could say whatever I want but hang on Jared so was the space with the space shuttle when we go back and look at the program was a success or it was at a failure it was more nuanced than that because it did a lot of things right but it also did a lot of things wrong and in the things that it did wrong there are groups and companies that have taken those lessons and had great success okay with them so is is is Apollo 13 and a success or a failure that's a great question too was Apollo 13 a success or failure to land on the moon it was an absolute failure but to get the crew back alive it was a success so I guess the whole joke of calling it a successful failure is kind of like the true way to describe it Ryan what's your opinion the United States base agency looking at looking at Space Launch System before it's even got off the ground do you view that the program is has it already failed or yeah has the program failed already I because we can't say if it's been a success yet because it hasn't launched right so you know you can't say it's been a success but I definitely don't think it's been a failure right already SLS is a rocket that was designed for an era which no longer exists I'm the way I personally look at SLS now it's gonna be like the last hurrah for like proper governmental rockets from the US at least and that's just that's my opinion on it to be honest SLS is a very expensive vehicle it's not economical I personally don't think it should be flowing a lot but we've got to this point it's got a job to do and I think it needs to do its job so that's my round to take on SLS why should it do its job if it's very expensive because it needs to do its job it's already has to do on the money yes I just want to see it fly okay yeah I just want to see it fly it's gonna be amazing to say the USS sunk cost fallacy is one of my favorite Star Trek ship so to you it has not failed yet right no it's not failed yet the same question to you has the space launch system failed before it's even taken off ignorant engineer here here yes how so it was supposed to be cheaper it was supposed to be faster oh wait we need more money oh wait we need more time you failed okay so this is what struck me as I was driving into work just kind of thinking about stuff trying to think about like what to tweet out and you I was thinking about what defines success in the space launch system and it's a really difficult answer like what will what will make space launch system successful if it flies once was that a success what is it what is it here for now when I sent out the tweet I got a whole lot of answers with regards to ultimately the tweet was designed in a way without giving it without giving it away to be like why do you think we have the space launch system because in order for you to answer if it's a failure or a success you have to answer why we have it in the first place what its mission actually is now one could argue hey Artemis one this mission is go to the moon except is it like that came later didn't it it's to your point it was supposed to be cheaper and faster was replacement to space shuttle right well is is it what is it what is the mission of space launch system it's different for everyone and so how you define and how you look at it is absolutely different and that will dictate whether you view space launch system as a success or a failure so when they when they first put forth the requirements of it you know it's going to use shuttle hardware so it'll be cheaper and faster except we've got to re-engineer everything to work with the new rocket so we've got RS-25s those worked but not for the time and the software blah blah blah and we're not going to reuse them so we can redesign them so that they're cheaper to make like why are you doing all this redesign for something that should have just worked the way it was the solid rocket boosters okay we're gonna add a fifth segment I don't think that required any re-engineering like what why why did we have to read I can test them that doesn't make any sense to me sure so the argument that they made to to go that route is failed because all of their arguments that they used to go that route are not things that they did or could do based on their assessments but the people making those arguments maybe had a different metric for success of the space launch system it is successful because there's a lot of people that still have jobs exactly their metric for success is different and that's the interesting thing about the space launch system is compared to other rockets this metric for success for space launch system isn't a single thing it's a floating nebulous thing that means different things to different people that was really really curious to see what it meant to different people and if there were any themes by the way there were not it's not that I could find I mean there were overtones if you had asked this question on Twitter in 2015 do you think that the results would have been different you know I don't know and what was really interesting is I actually thought it was going to be about I did not think that everyone was going to be like oh yeah Starship I actually thought we were going to see about 60% of people saying it has failed and 40% of people saying it was a success and I interestingly enough I got exactly the inverse from that 60% of people said it has not failed and 40% of people say it did fail and if anything maybe that's a slightly higher number it's a little bit surprising that 40% of people take a stance of how what they view space launch systems mission to be in such a way that it comes up as a failure which would be kind of the engineering standpoint of like it's supposed to be cheaper it was supposed to be faster it's supposed to you know all of those things and it wasn't well wasn't it though it's supposed to be cheaper but we don't know that it wasn't cheaper than a clean sheet design we have no idea they didn't do it no what if we took this it was it wasn't cheaper than a shuttle either that's not a true statement shut the development of cost to show you if you include inflation over if you want to amortize the development cost of shuttle over 135 flight flights I don't think that that's going to make a difference on your per flight number well no the four billion dollar number and Ryan you did a thing you did a news thing on this right the four billion dollar number does not include the development cost of space launches no four point one billion dollars per flight per flight one flight that is what it costs to build one rocket and fly one rocket one Orion capsule one Orion service module from ESA and to run the all the ground service equipment for one flight but one billion dollars I also feel like that number is not fair either because yeah it's a really big number but it's not for the space launch system the space launch system does not need to include Orion no correct right so it's like three point five billion dollars still more expensive Orion still more expensive than shuttle I don't yeah you're right shuttles like 1.2 billion to fly wasn't it Vax in our chat room I think has an extremely good point about this which is kind of something I was trying to get that with the idea of go back in time and ask these questions sure but which Vax says that the huge requirements change was to make it human rated it was a fundamental shift from the original design and drove an enormous cost and schedule overrun as Vax correctly points out when it was Aries five it was supposed to be a heavy lift cargo rocket cargo only right Aries one was going to shake everybody hang on they prove that that shaking thing was in computers only and didn't actually like they they they didn't have the vibe expert like it came in it had a good vibe check and it finally flew as Aries one X yeah like they were able to test the vibe no okay this isn't too bad Aries one X on not the rocket and not the capsule that they wanted yeah I mean it didn't shake too badly it was what's that it was on a four stick stack wasn't it or four segment stack stick but but but the SLS stands will tell you that area SLS is not Aries five it is a totally different vehicle and they share no heritage between each other other than maybe the engines it is a totally different vehicle they reengineered everything yeah so they so how can you put SLS into the constellation program camp of like hey you know SLS wasn't designed you know Vax is right Aries five was a cargo vehicle Aries one was the the crew variant right mm-hmm but SLS is not Aries five no it's not and so they took the idea that the idea that the idea that it wasn't designed with human rating up front I'm not sure is entirely accurate it only it only is in a world in which you consider Aries five to be the space launch system and certainly they share inspiration from each other mm-hmm and I'm not sure that it that I would buy that the entirety of the RS 25 redevelopment cost is because it was human to make it human rated because they were human rated beforehand yeah why would we we wouldn't have to do any rehuman rating on the RS 25 other than the or the pressure difference or the pressure differential with the fuels right or the SRB's well the SRB's had to be recalled because because they had a fit for this five but the my understanding of the big problem with the RS 25 re-qualification was that they had to do that because the thermal environment was entirely different from what it was on shuttle because now you had four of them in an extremely low pressure area and you had large significantly larger amount of thermal issue in that area compared to how it was with shuttle pace track that was my that was my understanding wait wait so what what is the low pressure area that was different than where shuttle went didn't shuttle go to space with the yes the correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure shuttle brought the engines with them the blunt body base track caused by the big tank and it being four instead of three stack yeah and it's now right next to the SRB's as well not offset from the SRB's can be seen between sure but I mean that's okay we're getting stuck in the weeds of things that I'm not sure are getting a little too technical get you I can't do technical Jared you know yeah yeah so let's go over some of the so this created a absolute storm on Twitter to be fair slightly designed although also I knew I was stirring the tank or the pot so to speak I didn't realize how much I was stirring it with the way I worded this so yeah it got it got aggressive got a lot of bangs and shimmies up here yeah what was was an instrumentation tell you that it was really interesting I was surprised in a little bit disappointed at like how a tacky everyone in space Twitter was and I get it like I sent out an aggressive treat and I got aggressive the easy for me to say like you know what you put out into the universe is exactly what you're gonna get back that's what I put out that's what I got back had it coming but at the same time like there was no restraint so let's go over some of these were really interesting and dada just you know you can pick one so talking about the Space Launch System this is from Andrew who's designed to keep shuttle jobs and provide a moon rocket it did both and have engines boosters contracted out to Artemis it's not going anywhere and will fly plenty so basically it was it's successful see this goes back to how do you view the mission like what the mission of Space Launch System why is it here and you can get an insight into what all that is based on all of these answers is going to be interesting if you take a look at it through that lens so you know that was the lens of Space Launch System is here for jobs it did exactly as it was supposed to do yeah right and I mean wasn't shuttle there to do that as well so a shuttle's original plan originally originally was so that it was part of the von Braun Space Station shuttle system to get to Mars right because he was like we can't do direct to Mars we shouldn't do that we you build the shuttle to the station and you shuttle from station to station then you shuttle back down to Mars because that's what's going to take I think that's a little more von Braun's own personal idea as opposed to what the Space Shuttle his story historically when that presentation was given to Nixon when it was basically do we want to continue Apollo applications or do we want to go with shuttle right a lot of people look at that decision is basically Nixon having to make a decision as to whether does he want NASA to continue with shuttle or does he want to continue someone else's legacy and well but it was my understanding that he was presented with shuttle in station this is what we want to build we want to build shuttle and station and he said you can't have the station you can have the shuttle I don't think it was Nixon that necessarily said that but he was like no this is too expensive you can have the little bit and so that's how we got there which is yes the original vision of a shuttling system to get us to Mars yes and the idea of shuttle was low-cost accessibility and build a space station sure essentially right and routine flight so then was shuttle a success one-third what do you think Ryan was was shuttle a success the initial concept for shuttle of a shuttling system that would take people to places beyond go earth orbit that never happened so that aspect of shuttle was a failure but what we got out of shuttle I wouldn't call that a failure I call that we got the international we got a lot of the International Space Station out of shuttle we got Hubble out of shuttle like we had we got so many good things and so much good science out of shuttle it wasn't a failure the initial concept though was because that never happened let me present you with a different option then what if we didn't have shuttle and instead we had the Saturn five so now you've got oh god I'm like mirror not mirror the first space station was Skylab Skylab oh my god so now you've got my lab first American space they did a whole movie about it man so now you've got Skylab type stuff instead and you can loft like really huge things into space so you don't get shuttle anymore instead you get Saturn five a shuttle a success or failure if you get if your options are you can keep Saturn five and build those same things there or you can have shuttle like how do we end up something to think about I'm like obviously we had the Saturn five you could basically launch half of the total weight of a shuttle itself to orbit in a single shot I mean the usable volume of Skylab was for a long time like as big or bigger than station mm-hmm so yeah like this is one launch yeah imagine what they could have done with four yeah you can get stuck in the middle there's some great footage of them like running through the perimeter okay next one data awkwardly so our avail hopefully I'm saying that right I would argue it hasn't failed at all and in fact it would likely be very successful if based on the project goals keeping the shuttle engineers and contractors going and returning to CIS lunar space we just got lucky to have a competing program with a grander goals what's interesting in that it's like okay I got it with the you know keeping people employed but the CIS lunar space thing is a fairly new addition to the space launch system is it not to a degree I guess it would depend on whether we're talking space launch system and space launch system itself or if we're gonna run as far back as I propose running it back to I don't think that's fair I don't think that's fair to space launch I think just because you retool the destination and you have to change things about it doesn't just because you shave your dog because it gets hotter during the year doesn't mean that I want to know where this analysis going you don't you don't get to call your dog a different breed because you shaved its hair yeah I guess is how I would say it so okay I saw where you were going and I'm going to save me there what was the core diameter of the Aries 5 anyone know off top why did I just look yeah and then tell me what the core diameter of the space launch system is and let's keep in mind that the core diameter these things is a big deal yes right it's kind of what a lot of things are based off of it if those numbers don't match one would argue they're not the same rocket I'm gonna say Delta 2 would prove you wrong how so because the core diameter is different from the payload fairing diameter no but I'm saying between the rock and I'm not saying between the fairing and the the rocket I'm saying that the rocket itself the diameter was always the same so everything was so is the first Falcon 9 different different from the current generation of Falcon 9 yeah yeah it's a retooled rocket are they they're different rockets yeah they maintain the same name but like I don't think anyone would argue that a Falcon 9 block one is the same as a Falcon 9 block 5 no although they're the same they are the same diameter they're not the same length don't what are you I heard you laughing over there I'm trying to figure out what you'll laugh it about so Jamie's arguing an opposite point to something she argued earlier what which is what days ago weeks ago nothing that the SDS Starship debate that you that I noped out on yeah join our discord and you could see us do stuff like this all the time as a reminder I like to steer the pot so I don't use whatever data is the advantages to me in the moment okay so Aries 5 diameter 10 meters and space launch system diameter 8.4 meters hmm interesting so so would you say that 10 meters and 8.4 meters are the same they're both meters they're not in freedom unit my my point is that's a retooled re-engineered rocket it's not the same okay but I think you're wrong we're moving oh my god hang on so this is a really long comment I don't think it'll work okay no that's gonna break it so long and that it just broke the whole thing that's all right on the Aries 5 Wikipedia on the Aries 5 Wikipedia it does say that there's two options which is I'm I'm quite in Wikipedia here the liquid field core stage was to be derived from the space shuttle external tank and was to use either five or six RS 68 be engines attached to the bottom of a new 10 meter diameter tank or five SSMEs attached to the bottom of a stretched version of the space shuttle's 8.4 meter external tank so I read that as they could have done a new 10 meter tank or an 8.4 meter tank instead and it looks like an SSS the 8.4 meter tank let me look up what the diameter for the Magnum rocket from Marshall Space Flight so oh look at that 8.4 meters because it was basically going to use a space shuttle external tank well this is not going to my advantage anymore so we're gonna change the topic snap oh snap oh I don't like this new data so I'm going to ignore it you're not helping my point would you look at that dang it oh would you look at that what he got oh yeah the National Launch System core proposed in 1989 was going to be using the same tooling as the external tanks for 8.4 meters oh really it's almost like I looked the stuff up and figured out that they might be the same rocket just in a different time and a different name and a different destination and a different guy rubber stamping it at a different time and a different political party with different budgets maybe it's a different rocket then everything else is different why is it not a different rocket all right we say that again he basically said it's all different I'm like well it is a different rocket oh okay yeah no calling me out of my trick don't let the world you're gonna use shenanigans you own shenanigans I do people are realizing that I use shenanigans and that's not fair I use shenanigans to my advantage and now I'm not going to be able to have like a corkboard with photos of all these like string just going back and forth between the ball all right all right artificial attention to the man behind the curtain artificial gravity space station says and one of the things that got me on this one was that this is done on their own Twitter avatar it's not centered this is not me screwing up the logo if you go look at space underscore stations right now on Twitter you will note that station is not centered and I want I almost centered it in the graphic but then I was like no no they didn't do it I need a while center center of gravity is off because I got that tank on the top left oh you know that's right that's right we're learning a lot about CG today kids as much as I detest the waste of money on this I think it hasn't failed yet and that I can still achieve its objectives over budget and behind schedule but it doesn't need to it doesn't need to exist and we have done better without it we just didn't know that when we started it and that was another interesting trend excellent did you really do you just take them out of time oh my god Ryan to right air he doesn't he doesn't talk a lot but he like he makes graphics on the fly for us that's great yeah so that was another theme that I kind of saw there were a lot of themes but one of the themes was if we knew then what we want are you drinking can I have some straight whiskey if I if I knew then what I knew now right that's isn't that everybody's goal like what straight whiskey yeah okay to know what you know now know then what you know now also I just want to say Colton says that was quick with regards to Ryan coming up with that graphic and I'm must concur that was yeah that was impressively yikes right like it's a lot hard well done yes but you still had to like find it screenshot it draw the arrows and then post it on the discord that was hard anyhow just take the kudos man take kudos so the last time you that was so incredibly difficult I had to go through so much effort to get that one screenshot I'm thank you so much well done you so that last time I'm trying to get us back on track I we're so far off track that last comment space you have the main truck a long time ago we never got on the track to begin with there was no track we much like SLS so I you know the with the last comment that was another theme that I kind of saw which is and you alluded to this earlier Jared which is if we knew then what we know now we may not have built the space launch system and that was actually I think might be a future tweet that will upset the entire community I mean I got I got to get space Twitter angry again the next one might be is space launch system the last rocket that NASA themselves ever built not that they're building it themselves but you know what I mean yeah basically NASA designs puts out the RFP and does the specifications and says hey everybody this is what we're looking for can bid or do you think NASA puts out the RFP and puts out Congress Congress's specifications exactly yeah okay okay so Congress tells NASA what to put out and then NASA does it so you know I was gonna say that comment could remind me of the James Webb Space Telescope right how so because it was it was long I mean could we bring could we bring it back up the comment back up because I thought that was a really just a really good one oh hang on I got it I got it has the show ever been no that's and that's that's that's not oh not that one there we go there we go so look for the off-center icon there's a lot of buttons just how it says there I think it hasn't failed yet in that it can still achieve its objectives over budget and behind schedule that's kind of what the James Webb Space Telescope was right way over budget way behind schedule but it does have that does have that achievement of its goals I think I think it's achieving it its objectives though if it's over budget and behind schedule I'm not saying that that's a part of its objectives I'm saying that the objectives it needs to accomplish can still occur even if it's over budget but here's the weird thing with space launch system so to that is point you're supposed to be on budget and on time but I don't think that means that you're necessarily meeting not meeting your objective on budget on time on orbit pick two that's the shirt for the show so okay I get that point but like let's just say that that's not necessarily like James Webb has an objective of going up there and exploit it in viewing and analyzing the cosmos right like it's specifically designed to look further than Hubble could yes into the multitude of other things along with it too but it's got very specific goals that it's going to accomplish yes name for me the specific goals of the space launch system employ people um put money in the right places but but the hang on you can launch obviously be a part of the Artemis program but you can with that it is now you can point to things well yeah which program hasn't it been a part of I guess in terms of crew over the past can you do it Ryan can you Ryan can you name for me the specific goals of space launch system they look pretty no that's the number one purpose it's number one purpose is to look pretty yeah the old the old uh the old paint job it still looks pretty yeah it still looks pretty why why does it look do you have a picture of it uh what's your name Dutta yeah what's your name Dutta what nice yeah yeah yeah he's typing away now I was going to have him bring up another question yeah so I guess that's the interesting thing to me about space launch system is we have this we have this thing and it I don't feel like it has a clear definitive like this is what we're doing it does now wow all right internet allow me to show you all four pixels I'm so sorry great potato thanks thanks Dutta I think you were you didn't have to like that this is actually a simulation of NASA's tv's coverage of the launch oh that covered all blocks is what that's what that was you couldn't you couldn't tell so this why is it a side of curiosity for anyone who thinks this looks cool I'm not saying it doesn't but if you do and this goes for the chat room as well why does this look cool why is this a cool-looking rocket this big and orange and then it has the side boosters and then it and then it goes thinner and then it goes thinner again and then it has a little pointy bit at the top and it's got like a satin five launch tower but it's not red it's gray so it's kind of like satin five and satin five was cool and it's still it's cool so really it's like it's it's like it's like satin five and space shuttle and then they had a kid and it's really pretty it's an orange orange Saturn shuttle so what we do is we take the Saturn five but we want to do is Saturn but we make it like shuttle colors and then we do it in the 2020s actually i'm curious leave your comment below leave your comment i actually do not like the look of the space launch system i think the older wrong do i think i think satin five look cooler than space launch system does i think 75 i think they're on the same level i think starship looks way cooler than that black and white i also think you're wrong it's like so you like the space launch system more than you like the look of if i had to do a tier list they'd be close but it would be it would be like it would be like satin five srs shuttle starship third i wow okay so first of all i love all rockets yeah i mean to be fair big rocket cool i mean they're all great they're all cool they're i mean none of them are quite delta-two cool but i mean they're all great so they're not blue yeah they're not blue and they don't have a shark mouth on them either that is kind of awesome so right i mean that's that's pretty sick so look at that that's pretty that is pretty cool those poor of poor engines poor poor engines if only they knew their feet womp womp yeah all right all right next one now we have to at least they get to at least they get to have a cool ride on the um on the crawler because they get to go to the pad twice this is an interesting comment because this goes towards like the shifting expectations of the space launch system which is space launch system never promised be anything more than america's premier method of getting humans to the moon but was it like when we first designed the space launch system is that what it was there for it was a it was to be a part of that so okay i mean there were there were actual architectures floated that would have had a space launch system launching cargo or components for eventual crude mars spacecraft for nasa so i mean these were the ideas early on in 2011 2012 when they were trying to figure out what to do with it when they were scribbling off aries five and putting sls blow it on the letterhead i disagree with you on that one you know it's really funny though is i will argue with people on twitter both sides of that particular point so i would be like oh no it's totally aries five i don't know what you're talking about and then here i am i'm like oh no it's totally not aries five don't know what you're talking about i just like to be difficult what do you want the the really interesting bit of that comment is last sentence which is with it being the cheapest rocket development of nasa's history i don't see the failure i'm not sure that's a true statement even if you count for inflation it is not yeah no way yeah but i can't like i don't have that date in front of me ryan it's not ryan is it the cheapest rocket in ss history what ss s yes i figured you would google it oh is it because there's no picture with arrows that it takes longer yeah all right let's just we can just jump to the next one uh number the first thing on google is 20 billion dollars don't know how correct that is but that's the first number of google so we're going to trust that and that's the official figure this i enjoy this is kind of again the kind of the theme of like it's to go to the moon you're 100 wrong it's all about means to the end the goal is the moon and the objective of that goal is to the moon at all costs there is no do it cheaply in space stop this nonsense uh thoughts there's no do it cheaply yet it's going to get cheaper not necessarily with ss s that is not what i'm saying ss is going to cost lots of money all the time how is it going to space travel as a whole it's going to get cheaper because we have so many different organizations starting to come online uh going through development developing big vehicles that can do these sorts of things that's how it'll get cheaper this sort of competition will drive down the cost oh this i do love yep oh yeah of course got to bring it up yeah boom c dragon everyone else quiet vex is speaking he's like he's like mic drop i do want to say that kind of does like slide into this pet peeve i've been having of late where i've i've kind of thought about it and it came and kind of like realize how dumb it is and how annoyed i am now that i like was bought into it which is that we really need to stop talking about launch launch costs in a total amount per kilogram right because you're not buying 500 kilograms of space if i'm launching on a falcon nine i'm buying a falcon nine in the launch services to go with it that's correct so it doesn't matter if i'm using 500 kilograms i don't know what you're doing it's that i'm doing the whole dang thing if i'm flying solo by myself so i feel like we need to start talking if we're gonna measure metrics in terms of of amounts for launches we should probably start doing it with total launch costs for the launch services and that does end up kind of making it have to fit in its own categories so like obviously you can't compare a falcon nine to a space launch system in those kinds of of comparison of course you can because you can't kick falcon nine can't carry as much as the space launch system can as much as we'd like to but hold on but like okay let's but you can do that comparison because that goes to a cost benefit for space launch system does it not because if i can loft one unit of things no if i can loft ten unit of things on space launch system but i need two falcon heavies to loft those same ten units of things that i have then it costs me two falcon heavies worth of stuff i have discovered your thing is is 30 units you can if it's indivisible it's indivisible okay that's first so if it doesn't fit it doesn't fit that's fair too yeah okay but assuming it fits yeah and it's will it blend that's like the engineering equivalent equivalent of trying to have a baby in nine months with nine or in one month with nine women right yeah okay i get i it can be that way but it doesn't have to be it all depends on the payload i think there are benefits to cutting up the costs in different ways right so you're not wrong like if you've if you've got if you're flying something to space and you own the rocket it doesn't matter what the rocket can do your cost is the rocket right that's your point yes yes and i'm not in this kind of thing i will say that like if you fly like you're with your output clipper obviously because it's not launching on a space launch system it's launching on a falcon heavy that kind of does reduce a bit of the budget if you will for that there we're still going to have to pay by three point five billion it's something like that seven billion dollars i i think your clipper is going to cost a little bit more because because now they got three point seven billion dollars more they can spend well it's going to it's going to be a lot more expensive than a regular falcon heavy because this is a flagship mission and you i will just say this as i'm not i don't work for nasa or anything like that but i know that i can confidently look at space x and say you don't mess this one up that's fair so yeah so there will be extra costs associated with that for assurances and things like that yeah that's fair i think that's fair yeah so i would imagine your upper clipper will probably be a half of a 500 to 700 million dollar launch on a falcon heavy something like that still a three million dollar savings yeah just a bit just a bit so okay uh did you by the way did no you didn't um i completely lost my train of thought oh so with regards to those numbers though so yeah you're right if you're the solo one going up and you're you're right to dada where if it doesn't fit it doesn't fit and you can't necessarily you can't just cut things in half and be like oh yeah yeah i cut my satellite in half and we'll it'll magically work in orbit that's not how that works either but that is also kind of why you need to have multiple ways of measuring the same thing because it all depends on what you're trying to do so you look at one of these transporter missions that falcon 9 brings up that has a good jubilee and different payloads on it well they they bought their little slice of the total payload capacity of falcon yeah but they're paying transporter for that they're not paying spacex for that how is that transfer that relevant to the rocket though well i'm talking about total costs of the total cost of the flight transporter pays for that and then people pay transporter to put their payloads on there so they're not really paying spacex for that they're paying transporter and then that movie that movie the money goes on to space yeah but their cost is still not the cost of a falcon nine and they got to space so their cost went down yeah the cost the cost of the cost the cost of the cost regardless of how you split it up and who's doesn't matter who's pooling to to make it work i mean that's true too that's true too but then but then at that point like the amount that you can loft up into space matters then then so transporter could if if you could get 10 more units on falcon they would probably put 10 more units on falcon they're most likely limited by weight okay no gotcha no i know i don't know i'm not stating this for fact yeah i'm trying to figure like i'm sure you can see the gears turning yes i feel like as hard as they can i feel like i've confused you you have so so the performance of a rocket is a is a mass factor so there's a certain amount of mass and you want a particular orbit and in order to reach that orbit you need a particular delta v regardless of what size your rocket is to every rocket has a curve of the delta v that they can reach with a certain weight and that delta v is going to change based on the weight you put a cubesat on a falcon heavy and you can get it to the sun and and an heartbeat or yeah but if you could probably get it to the sun yeah but if you max but if you max out a falcon heavy you know it's not going to be able to get you as high of an orbit so i understand the the want for a common factor to be able to say that this rocket costs this much for this amount of payload but that's just not a fair metric and it's and it's a it's a curve everything is a curve would it be more fair if it was launch costs to like essentially like low earth orbit or trans lunar injection or trans mars injection would that make it a more fair comparison you would have to have you would have to have a standardized orbit that you are defining as this is where our cost threshold is okay i see where you're at but whenever you deviate from that you're going to deviate from that cost threshold because your mass available to go to that higher orbit is going to go down gotcha so you can say that falcon falcon nine can do 100 kilo i'm just pulling numbers out of thin air falcon nine can do 100 kilograms to you know a lunar orbit and something just i know it's i'm not pulling numbers out of my ass just sit there jamey okay i'm trying okay yeah but a falcon heavy can do 300 kilograms to the same orbit that doesn't make make the cost of a falcon heavy three times more you know it's its capability is different yes does that make sense i think my point is we're fighting one time i think about why i took control so i gotta give it back i think my point is like you're not wrong like looking at the total cost of rocket is a good thing like i understand it but you also do need to look at the dollars per kilogram to a orbit like both of these numbers matter okay and you can't say one is more important than the other both of these numbers matter they're both relevant in their own respective exactly gotcha okay yeah now that's making a lot more sense to me when you guys put it that way so right is that a fair way to put that also that that was a very yeah also data that was a very good way to put it i got it almost right out of the gate with that so thank you all right so continuing to be good and wise will that will diverge with a fun one really quick which is a from andrew c 437 asks totally random question is the set of fully built built set yeah actually it is you want to hang on he's gonna hill all right he can don't don't don't break it okay well first off how are you breathing yeah you have no space to pressure difference i'm sorry jared i can't let you do that oh wait hang on well okay get back on this get back on camera if you stay for posho which means you need to be a member but if you for well something something yeah you're gonna shake the camera you could shake the camera that would prove it you're walking space station shake oh somebody was somebody saying shake the space quake space quake oh any that was okay all right what's the next one what's the next one mr slippery this is a fun one oh ready it's the only rocket currently existence capable of delivering a crude vehicle to the moon oh it's a point vab has a retractable roof because otherwise it's going to be quite difficult until it flies it's just a big giant water tower with fancy drain valves it is not currently the best part is he's now referenced both starship and the sls in exactly the same way so that's fun um vax asks can't yeah so this was kind of uh cant falcon heavy do that too uh yeah right i mean there are multiple vehicles are you know arguably space launch system is not ready yet it hasn't even rolled out yet where starman oh yeah we had a good point like some sort of weird elliptical martian orbit not in orbit around mars is like a weird elliptical is that a bigger orbit than the moon yeah it's slightly okay just checking but i i feel like an actual spacecraft is slightly heavier than a tesla roadster i don't know yeah actually i don't know either what you mean it has two seats it's enough for two people that tesla that tesla roadster has infinite interior space so there's that yeah it's got it's got light years of headroom all right so i thought that i thought that i could fit in it i thought that comment was interesting simply because like the sls and nasa stands just started making stuff up and then they would dig their heels in and like really doubled down on that it's like what but you're not even factually accurate and so it's interesting to see that you know everyone complains about the space x fanboys right that's like that's everyone complained about the space x fanboys but i don't think the nasa or sls fanboys are any better than the space x fanboys they're just rooting for a different team in the exact same way yeah the fanboy mentality is what kills it yes yeah apparently apparently um this weren't just the visibility because you have more space x fanboys than you would sls fanboys but fanboyism just sucks period it does yeah i learned that like get a life get a hobby expand it out so the launchpad brings up an interesting point which is falcon heavy can get to the moon more specifically and send drag on the moon but it will need an ascent add-on but what should mean just these parachutes well hang on hang on but that's not the right way what about the super drakos hang on you actually got me for a second like i didn't i didn't cover your hands with you him said and then i started going and then my brain was like oh my oh boy that's what nasa wanted um hey you could use the super drakos once yeah you're right that's your set stage is the one-way trip yeah hang on though i'm a genius but space launch system can't send orion to the surface of the moon orion apollo 8 that thing orion can't land exactly vax orion can't land well they can send it there yeah so they just won't get it back what's the but what's the difference then what's the difference well orion has its own propulsion system that is designed to get itself both in orbit around the moon and then also back from the moon as well that's neat but that has nothing to do with space launch i don't know about dragon though but how is that relevant to space launch system because if we're comparing falcon heavy and space launch system then we need to also compare the spacecraft that you will fly why on them right what no why well what have we been talking about for the past five minutes moving on anymore uh oh this one was interesting rocket cello says it's the cheapest and shortest development of a super heavy launch vehicle that we know of shortest development would saturday five wouldn't it that was designed like in four or five years in the early 60s wasn't it saturday five was rapidly designed saturday five was rapidly designed iterative iterative iteratively easy for you to say uh-huh from all that came before it yeah by basically the same people but okay so how is that different than space launch system then like going back to your point and then we got to go back to like the 90s for this thing yeah i don't i don't i don't think it's the same as space launch system i think it might be similar to what space x has done with starship we'll see we're recording space launch system time no no according to google saturday five costs more than sss to develop so far is uh it says 53.4 billion in 2020 dollars and sss according to r-statnica is 20 billion yeah i think i'm arguing the timeline though the shortest development right because saturday five was it's it's sure it's sure as stuff should have been because they were standing on the shoulders of giants well hang on yeah yeah so zaphens i'm sorry i mean i was gonna say i didn't mean to interrupt but i absolutely did f1 was fired in 1959 first time they worked on it for a while so let's see when's the first time a space shuttle main engine was fired 70s cool so they've been working on this thing for what 50 years oh wow yeah the f1 actually started development in 1955 oh wow that's actually much earlier than yeah great calls zaphens fn and yep first firing uh four years uh march 1959 hey happy anniversary f1 so oh yeah yeah first first i'm sorry dad i did interrupt you and i that's fine so what they're saying i don't i don't think you're any less root any more rude than i did before i mean i mean you could complete your thought if you wanted to know i was i was comparing starship's development time to saturday to saturday five is the the process by which they got there shoot sure but i think the argument is like both are arguably faster than space launch system agreed so you're telling me that saturday five did it with a lot of money quickly and quickly they could waste anything but and the space launch system has done it with a lot of money but not quickly good cheaper fast pick pick two no i i mean yeah it's been expensive but it's been you know half less than half the cost according to the numbers ryan came up with okay i like i have a hard time so you're getting in at half the speed i mean also i mean kind of also let's face it the space launch system is not exactly what we would call a national priority like project apollo was yeah yeah that's fair too so i mean there was some serious motivation to do that at that time it's also we might be approaching having that serious motivation again um but hey brilliant we'll get faster i suggest about it no you know no please not not like this no it's all it's also not done space launch system yeah how's it not done has it flown that doesn't mean it's not like it's rolling out it's rolling out that doesn't stop what you're not saying hang on hang on hang on are you telling me a vehicle isn't done until it flies even after after you've your first flight there is more development to correct problems that you found that you didn't know that you that you had that's fair but one could say that then a rocket's never done no i wouldn't say that what i said one could say it i'm i'm saying it and you're one of four i'm not gonna argue with your obstinance observations uh what i what i'm saying is that until it has okay so this this requires a little bit of background i had a philosophy teacher in college and oh god and his one of the things that he always said is that the thing isn't the thing until it can thing the thing isn't the thing right like what is a car do you put four wheels together and sit in it and sit on the on the ground in between them and go for room no it has to move you from one place to another so until you put assemble parts and it moves you from one place to another it's not a car so until sls gets off the ground it's not a rocket so until until it accomplishes the goal of putting something into space it's not a rocket it's just a big giant statue now i'm just like imagining people standing out in the middle of the swamp at kennedy space center and they're like picking up mud and then dropping it down and saying it does not flown until it has you know something like that you know just or there's like people out at out at vandenberg you know grabbing sand and letting it fly you know zip through their their fingers and saying it is not seen until you can't until the fog is gone you know you can't hold it that far away can the fog what you wouldn't be able to see oh yeah right here yeah so yeah interesting so didn't didn't realize my philosophy courses were going to come in handy here so you're philosophizing yeah you're philosophicating philosophicating on the show so all right i think that's enough on this one i i'm sure that were there any more comment did i get to all of them yeah okay cool uh data is right it has to think first also the downside the downside of data having all the control is that he can also opt to push anything he wants on the screen and yeah all right falcon nine is vertical promise i don't get it we broke everyone and i missed it completely i just went andrew in vandenberg oh falcon nine is vertical promise i did hear that that's the falcon i promise it's the falcon no no i did say it wasn't falcon nine is vertical i said i think because i did that on the graphics one time when we couldn't see it i said the falcon nine's on the pad are promise or like we promise the falcon nine is there no we i actually made put that on the air once i need to see this oh yeah no there is a launch where you could not see the rocket yes and i actually in the graphics i had a little graphic slide i said we said something like the falcon nine on the pad we promise it's there or something like that was this the jason three launch i don't remember it's a while ago and i think it might be the old graphic suite where it was like straight as opposed to curved oh yeah it might be the jason three launch because i mean i went to that and i heard it yeah i'm near positive i've actually put that on the air somewhere i think i think i recall seeing that now i'm hunting for it andrew c four three seven said i know i took a pic of it it was because well like what else do you do right in that moment in time you can't see anything it's like all right well we gotta have fun with it at least this one i don't know maybe oh oh right sorry you've seen so many they do i have and no i don't know wow look at how few people are there so dada really wants me to start if starship has some sort of catastrophic failure that sets it back half a decade does scls become more successful oh actually that's a good question that's why i think it's nails this first flight and then starship doesn't make it further than the Atlantic ocean on its first flight then start srs will have a better success rate than starship this will work but that's not really the question because starship they're both for different things there's there's a very different engineering tact between the space launch system and starship right so starship is rapid design rapid iteration um fail early fail often right so you don't do that with srs but that's not yeah move fast and break stuff but like in testing not in production right so learn all the lessons now and then we learn the lessons and cool but space launch system was not designed that way space launch system was designed figured all out on paper figure all out in simulations do cross cross every t dot every i make absolutely sure of everything and then put it together yes now i'm not saying one is right or wrong i'm just saying that they took very different approaches yes so if it's a bit i think it's a bigger deal if srs doesn't have a successful mission on its first flight than say starship simply because of the engineering approach taken to get to this point but also because of that engineering approach i don't think srs is gonna fail i really don't i also think that because of the legacies of the companies involved there would be no recovery from having an srs failure failure um it would definitely be the biggest blow ever i think where i don't know whereas space x fails all the time and they show it publicly and that's the culture with space so if it's a death blow for the space launch system it's because of the fact that that with taxpayer funded things people are not really big on their stuff blowing up well they're much more okay with with privately funded blowing up i mean yeah and i think that's fair there's a good portion of space x is a development that's that's taxpayer funded as well yeah but people don't people in general don't know that yeah i think that's a fair analysis not to see it sure but i mean how you get i'm not gonna disagree with that either so yeah no i think it i don't disagree with nasa's approach i'm just saying it's a different approach it's not right or wrong it's just different and so because of that different approach first off i don't think we're going to see a failure of the space launch system yeah i just i really don't i don't think i think we're also going to see a very conservative launch team yes right it's not going on that first day anything anything off at all even in the slightest they're not going there's a bird down range there's a bird yeah bird within five miles um oh there you go that's the image where does it say it says live pad views falcon nine is vertical promise where's it's in the lower right okay which launch was this though this one oh i can't see it because it's covered up it's the radar sat constigation radar sat yeah so that hit air that was live oh boy am i glad i did that is one that i thought about going to but i was like no i'm not going to this yeah so thank goodness i mean that's just one where the control i'm like i don't know i don't know what to do like you've drawn this that is brilliant i can't believe i've never seen that before actually i think an interesting show would be um in a in a modern era right we've got look we've got space launch system now whether it's right or wrong we've got a lot more data now we've got commercial space spinning up we've got there are commercial companies that potentially have the ability to build super heavy lift rockets reliably lower costs you know and then nasa has their pick they can just choose whatever launch vehicle they want and go to the moon go to mars wherever they want to go so in that world where rockets are no longer the thing that they're we're trying to figure out how to do what does nasa do is it still rockets or does nasa do something else does nasa do the thing that no one else is working on do they figure out the lunar habitation do they figure out um nuclear propulsion in space do they figure out i don't i don't know what the answer is i feel like nasa is the entity that does the things that no one else can do yet asterisk asterisk that should be doing the things that no one else can do yet i think there are certain parts of nasa that absolutely do that james web space telescope right yeah recent perish recent and long example not the best but it's still an example how about flying a helicopter on mars yeah right nobody else has done that i feel like we can point to the space launch system we'd be like but the nasa is still doing really incredible things and that's not to say that the space launch system isn't incredible but in a it took them so long to get here that everything changed from underneath them i'd say nasa also helps out with things that that may be familiar as well like nasa does a lot of work with the national oceanic and atmospheric administration to help out with their their space operations with their spacecraft so it's it's not necessarily just like the things nobody else is doing sometimes there are assets like the ghost system the geostationary orbiting satellites those ones i can't i lost it i think i think this exceeds the scope of this show right the show is kind of like hey look i made space twitter angry let's let's dive deeper but it was kind of look at space twitter was very angry with me and very yelling but there was i think there was some actually good conversation that came out of it i was interested in a lot of it and i think it made for a really good show like i i enjoyed it i hope you guys did too and you know what i still want to watch the lunch me too oh yeah i'm going to watch it i'm going to clear it out i'm what is my heart are you going to be higher for it or falcon heavy i'm actually not anti space launch system i'm not either i'm really excited for space launch system i fundamentally do believe and this isn't me again this is not me stirring pots or anything this is honestly i think more heavy heavy lifters more access to space is always better yes right we need to have these capabilities this is going to be rockets the best rockets big big rockets are well now we have all the rockets we need the small rockets and the big rocket we've had multiple rockets the better rockets no no you need you need choice big rockets are great because you could put the small rockets within the payload fairing of the big rocket and really make it go get stage and and then a spin launch machine so i hijacked the entire show we've been on the air for an hour jared was anything you wanted to talk about anything you got excited about this week other than my tweet there were two things that i got excited about this week or the past since our past show which is that that's great to know ryan was there anything first of all uh near cam on the james web space telescope is on and being put through its commission phase of course it's a james web story because it's finally happening it's cool it's getting rapidly cooled down and everything's going on the air conditioning things yeah the really good air conditioning um and everything's just going very good like uh yeah just you know yeah it's just everything's just going amazing with it i just want to hang on hang on hold up what possessed you to think that knock on wood with the bill of your hat well see i was actually aiming for the front of my head but i kind of missed why not knock on wood with your head a lot more when you need a lot more luck so like you really need to fully commit to it that's a that's a big target how did you miss i did i did if only i had some more some more funding and time um i could have probably gotten it done right um so that and then also uh the uh ingenuity took its 20th and its 21st flight on mars uh since our last show uh and uh that's just amazing to me that we have a vehicle flying on mars and it was only supposed to last five flights and here we are we just had number 20 and number 21 and it's looking great once again nasa doing amazing things yeah that's jpl though yeah jpl is nasa star star i said star star i don't even think star star hey there's because if you're workingâl you're technically working for kil totally you just do star star you have to anyway nobody really knows star star star it's just triggered thank you vax thank you oh is this my next tweet is it this my next week don't start People don't you know start. I've already done that. It's just a continuation. Don't do this Jamie Don't do look at my eyes. Don't do this Jamie All right Ryan The the biggest thing that excited me this week is that we got the NASA's funding basically I can't remember the numbers off the top of my head, but they get a lot some money to do things 24 billion US dollars Can I have some I don't know where that's going hopefully it's going to good stuff. Well at least four million four point one of it's going to a launch Too soon Station primarily yeah Station that's gonna be interesting. That's gonna be interesting Yeah, yeah, we're that's I don't want to say that's evolving every day But it boy does it feel like it is that it did you have any final thoughts before we wrap up the main part of the show? That is spent I mean rabbit holes man rabbit holes Fun to go down sometimes I don't know Wait, and he's saying a go fund me page for space launch system or NASA What what is the go fund me page for who's go fund me? I don't know I would go fund me for NASA Maybe that'd be hilarious. All right. That is our show. I hope you all enjoyed it It was you know as per all of our train shows an absolute train wreck and a lot of fun Like I I wouldn't have these shows any other way I think the train wreck is what is a character and speaking of characters. These are the people who helped you Actually make these shows happen week after week month after month If you would like to help support the shows of tomorrow financially and get your name in the show You can head over to youtube.com slash tmro slash join. This is escape velocity It's the highest you get your name in the show you get your name in bunch of different things You get a bunch of different stuff you we also have in it's really at every different level So it's whatever you're comfortable contributing to the show anywhere from one dollar per month Which is far less than like a coffee all the way up to I think the top tier I think escape velocity is $50 per month and everything in between and It's pretty it's pretty fun with escape velocity you get access to the discord room in and direct access to us And then you can see me doing shenanigans in the disc I was about to say it's literally this like what this show is like 24 365 I'll walk it just just to see I'll walk into the discord room, and I'll be like what's light Let's drop let's drop this grenade see what happens. Oh that was effective Jamie walks by and lights the curtains on fire I do it on Twitter too So thank you to everyone everyone whose name was up on screen for helping to make these shows happen By the way, yeah, if you can't afford it like that's totally cool. I get that but you know what would help is You know red is no go and If you look directly below this video You're gonna see a red subscribe button if you haven't subscribed press that subscribe button make it turn gray So that you are go for I don't know I don't I don't know how to complete this and make this into a space thing But make it go from make get that red off the screen so that we can launch space launch system in other Red red is bad and if we if you have a red subscribe button below here That's that is bad and that indicates that space launch system can't fly Starship can't fly pick your favorite rocket. It can't fly because they are red they are no go So make make your favorite rocket go Delta 2 can't fly Delta 2 can't fly. Oh shoot Hit that hit that red subscribe button make it make it turn Gray for go your go for go for tomorrow exactly You know, all right, I'm gonna work on that. I feel like I've got I've got the formula for something there Right, that was that was the loose bones of something I don't know what it is yet We'll make a stew out of it. We got the ingredients for a stew. We just don't know if they're all gonna go together I feel you got you got two weeks to conjure something from those bones It's definitely paleontology. You know, you've been watching a lot of Jurassic Park and whatever It's like back in the day They used to think dinosaurs were like this and then it turns out no that was completely wrong Oh Man Wait, hang on Maddie someone push Mattie's comment. Let's see what we got here That's a good one very exciting very exciting that's a good one I Like that one All right, thank you everyone so much for watching and for sticking with us through all of it Thank you for not being too angry at me as I throw grenades into space Twitter and just wait until the comments open up on this Oh, yeah, it'll be fun Well, you know, I will say that on Twitter and especially when you know what I'm doing and you can see me doing it I feel like people are a little more civilized and I did word that poorly and I didn't had I given the option for its nuanced I think I still would have gotten the data I was looking for and it would have taken some of the sting out of it Yeah, and so I do agree. I think that could have been done quite a bit better But it was still fun. I would say though that the the idea of unfortunately I proved what I set out to prove kind of happened which is so which is that it's It's not it's there wasn't really good debate to be had with it or discussion like people are we just talked No, you know what I'm you know what I mean though, which is that people couldn't it wasn't nuanced people were This or that about yeah, so that see that's why I screwed up because there is nuance there And I didn't give them the option for nuance. That was a polarizing question It was designed to be a polarizing question because I thought that that would push them into a well It's supposed to do this and so obviously it's that and it I should have allowed the opportunity for nuance So that's my screw-up, but it's still good for a good, but to be fair in order to get data You need polarization and not just and sometimes I think that this was Astronomy to you need polarization to get data and for good driving glasses, so yeah, yeah true for any of those 3d rides at Disney Yeah, that's right polarization. That's right You know what actually this is a really good This is a really good way to end the show that the conclusion is Space fans are passionate and yes, you know what I think I think my advice Not that anyone asked for it, but I'm gonna give it anyhow to the entire space community is Your passion like your passion is amazing and you should never lose your passion But you should also not lose sight The other person on the other end of that screen and remember to always treat people as you wish to be treated and Be passionate, but be polite at the same time Yeah, because you should be the best example of humanity at all times because we are the ones We are the ones that are going to explore the cosmos. We are the ones that are going to go to the moon We are the ones that are gonna go to Mars We are the ones that are going to extend humanity into our next generations And we should be the best example of humanity at all times the absolute best and It's just important to remember Yeah, remember to be kind to others even even through your passion on that note Thank you so much for watching and oh, oh, I don't have the thing And we'll see you in two weeks two weeks