 to walk to the car, or maybe you just spend time outside with someone today, or have a moment to yourself. I hope you do, soak it up. I wish we could kind of store that so that we could pull it back out when we need it in January and February. But maybe take it to the chair. So if you don't know me, I know many of you. My name's Amy Butler, and I'm the director of education here at North Branch Nature Center. I say director of education really loosely, because really what I spend most of my time doing is spending time in the forest with young children and with teachers doing the eco program, educating children outdoors. How many people know about eco or participate? Yes, I'm mostly a, yeah, great, we're all, yeah. But maybe you don't know this, and I want to share this with you, and this is one of the reasons why I invited Rachel to come all the way from Michigan, is that this year eco is 10 years old. So 10 years ago, two teachers at Union Elementary School came to me and said, you know, I've been teaching for a long time, I've been teaching for 25 years, kind of are in it, something is a little different. And we think maybe it might have to do with the lack of time that children are spending outdoors planning and connecting the natural world and making their own choices and their own discoveries. So what do you think? Do you think we could take them outside for half the day? And now we're 10 years later, we work with 12 schools, we work with over 100 teachers, and I had the opportunity from all of your support, all these teachers and all these children and families, and some of them are not, to travel around the country and meet wonderful people like Rachel and cross colony and have these discussions on a national level and also on an international level. Next week I had to California to teach at a conference another nature-based early childhood conference with an international panel, people, a woman from Malaysia, two people from Australia, two people from New Zealand and another person from the UK and then me from Vermont. So thank you to all of you for all the time, all the energy, all the thinking and all the hard work that you do every day as educators. It means so much. So with that being said, I want to introduce our guest, Rachel Lairmore. Rachel and I met in California. I think so. I think at a conference, actually in the airport, she's spied with, she said, are you going to be Butler? And I said, you're Rachel Lairmore. Queen of Google. Right. And I was like, ooh, that's her. That's what I'm talking about. And we hit it off. Rachel is a phenomenal presenter, energetic and very, very passionate about her work. Her profession is so much pursuing a PhD in Michigan based on what you do with your students. She's also extremely passionate about research. And so what she's going to share with us today, this evening, and then what we're going to be looking at tomorrow and working on together tomorrow, it's not so much the logistics of, how do we get out the door? What can we put on our students? What about permissions and all those things? It's as deep or dive into pedagogy and practice and why? And how can we do this better? And how can we make this more sustainable and help more teachers and more families and our children come into this work? I wanted to share just a little something from Rachel's website. I might, hopefully I got this right. Frequent, what she really does is frequent positive outdoor experiences in the formative early years are very, very important for individual growth, developmental growth, but also to raise the next stewards of the planet. And we can all think back to our earliest childhood memories that Rachel spent most of her time playing on a farm in Illinois, chasing craw dads in the creek, crawling through weeds, catching frogs, helping out on the farm, and a lot of many of our children in Vermont have those experiences and those are being played. So, I'm so glad that you're here. I'm so glad that you came all the way from Michigan. And Rachel, before she's gonna stand and talk, she wants to show a video to all of us and about what is nature based preschool and that she is coming up with realizing that we're not all preschool teachers and that, but by hopefully by watching this film and putting everybody, we'll help put everyone into kind of a mental place of understanding nature based learning and learning with nature for all children. Nature based early childhood education is this broad umbrella term that incorporates lots of different program models. And all of those program models have in common that they bring together the best of early childhood and environmental education. What happens is there's dual goals of both child development, but also environmental sustainability and this connection to the natural world and something bigger than ourselves. So a nature based preschool has three physical spaces of the inside, outside and beyond the area outside the play area. And they're outside or beyond 30% of the day at minimum. Generally speaking, there's sort of a typical structure of the day. So we start with outdoor play and that's anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour to maybe longer depending on how play is going, right? It's all dependent on what the children are engaged with. Then they will gather as a group and welcome everyone who's missing sort of community building time. And then during that group meeting they will often do an activity, a teacher led activity that will then prompt whatever the hike is going to be with the experience to the beyond. Then they'll go out onto the beyond. The beyond time might be half hour, might be an hour. It could be the rest of the day. Then there's usually snack time. Again, snack might be back in the main building. It might be outside in the play area. It might still be out in the beyond that they've taken with them. And then there's always another choice time or there's free play again. And that play might happen again indoors, might be in the outdoor play area, might be in the beyond. So the location of these parts of the day varies but the parts of the day happen in the same order so that children know what to expect. Often programs will have a small group activity towards the end of the day where a teacher is working with five or six kids on a particular activity that's led by the teacher but of course still open-ended. And that I think with the role of the teacher being a co-learner, right? More than this didactic all-knowing being of here I'm going to teach you what I know. But if I'm a co-learner with the children, I'm discovering all of this wonder and awe as well. And so then we can learn together. It got stuck against the tree. Should we go the other way? Okay. Ooh, he's a cool roly-poly. You have a nice striped song. Oh, look at all his friends. Look it, look it, look it. He saw. You know what I noticed about his antenna? Look at his antenna are kind of bent. They go boop, boop, boop, boop. Look, he can put himself over. You think he can do it? There, he did it. Everything that happens related to the curriculum is centered around nature and what is happening seasonally because the children are outside playing in that natural world. What they're interested in is of course going to be seasonally based and driven by their interest. But they're also emphasizing learning with nature more than learning in or about nature so that we're really using the natural world as another teacher and our learning is emerging from what we're experiencing at the time. Children need to be outside. They need this connection as part of their day-to-day life not as an extra, not as some thing we just do every once in a while but an ongoing regular experience with the natural world for their whole development if they're gonna be whole children and ultimately whole adults, which is our goal. No matter where you are, whatever your program is, every program can integrate the outdoors in on some level. So even if it's of urban space or in a very natural wild space in the middle of nowhere, everyone has the opportunity to integrate nature into their program in more authentic and meaningful ways. The nature-based approach really does change lives across the board from kids to parents to teachers and the more we do it, the more we can have a positive impact on the world. So how many of you watch that and think amen, that's how all education should be, right? Yeah, I figured that would be everyone. So my challenge to you all tonight is to think about why do you have that response? Why is it to you individually that it matters that every child has an experience like that? And if we really went around the room, the answer would probably be very different. And so similar results, right? Similar approach and pedagogy, but the core reason of why might be different. We're gonna talk a little more about that. And then to think about how does that why play out day to day? How does that influence our practice? How do we get to what do we really, really care about? And then do that every day in our practice. So that's sort of big picture where I'm headed and I show that video partly for myself too. It just puts me in this emotional and intellectual space of like, yeah, that's what we're trying to do. Sometimes I get a little negative Nellie because I work with a lot of like traditional, very formal education world and it can be a little overwhelming, right? Some of the things that we have to deal with in the education world, as you all know. And so sometimes I need to remember like there's great things happening. And for me, what I also like, those totally my own benefit is those were, most of those videos, not all, but most of that video is from the preschool that I started in Midland, Michigan. And then that grew into the nature-based kindergarten and first grade with our public schools. And now second grade. And so some of that video was actually like the worksheet. Those were first graders that were working on that, that had integrated this into their program. So also to think about the ways that this can grow and that it starts often with one little kernel of a program and then it snowballs to become this, right? Everyone here at Eco joining together. So that's a good thing. So tonight, we're focused on sort of this, guided by the why really making intentional decisions. Like we do things every day as teachers, you make decisions, split second decisions, thousands and thousands of them in the moment. And so as much as we possibly can to remember to come back to being really intentional about that, like why did I decide to take them out to this space today versus that one? Or why did I spend as much time as I did there? Or not as much time, right? Really thinking about why do we do that work? So I'm gonna push a little bit. As Amy said, I'm trying to dig a little deeper. Like you all have been doing this. You don't need to know how to get them dressed, right? Like where to get rain suits. That's sort of a different world that a lot of people do need to know that. You've done that, you figured that out. Now it's thinking a little more deeply. So as a result of that, sometimes it might be a little uncomfortable. I might, maybe I'm gonna challenge you a little bit. Maybe not, maybe you're like, yeah, okay, whatever. No big deal. But it might be a little uncomfortable. So with that discomfort, we're gonna, there we go. Sometimes you just gotta wake this thing up. Anyone, Brené Brown fan in the room? Yeah. I basically think she's my BFF. She doesn't know it yet. We've never met. But I think she's my BFF. So anyway, if you don't know Brené, she's a researcher, social worker, researcher that does work on vulnerability and shame and wholehearted living and some really light topics. But one of her quotes that I love is that vulnerability is the birthplace of innovation, creativity, and change. So if you have moments of like, ooh, yeah, I do that. And that doesn't quite fit with my why tonight. Remember that feeling of discomfort is your vulnerability and that is the opportunity for innovation, creativity, and change. So just sort of keep that in your back of mind, like just channel Brené, okay? Which I try as much as I can in life. The other thing tonight that we're gonna kind of frame our thinking around, there we go, is another famous TED Talk presenter, Simon Sinak, he does a lot of work with businesses and he did a TED Talk, it was a TEDx talk actually, on the Golden Circle. And the idea was that all organizations, do you remember that? It was like, I don't know how many millions of views. But his whole premise is that everything we should do should start with why instead of, and he's working with corporations, but thinking about why do we do the work that we do? And then you think about the how and the what. So for our work, the what is nature-based early childhood education, right? That's sort of what we do. Might be you're a nature preschool, you're a nature kindergarten, first grade, so forth. That's the what. The how is then the pedagogy, the approach, the decisions and sort of philosophy and practices that we do day to day, right? That's the how. But the why may vary for each of us. The why is, is it child development? Is that why you're in this? Is it for social-emotional development? Is it for academic skills? Is it for all of those? Is it you're here for environmental sustainability? And that's what you really care about. Or is there something else that's out there that's really for you, this is why I do this work. This is why it's important to get kids outside. And the answer is different for all of us. And in fact, most of us came from a different route, right? And I've noticed that the answer tends to vary if it's folks that came to this work from environmental education or farm education, right? Instead of traditional early childhood, sometimes there's just different perspectives. But we've all come to the same pedagogy, the same idea of this is how we should teach. But why may be different? So that's sort of broadly framing this idea as we move forward of why. So what we're gonna do tonight, we're gonna first briefly talk about what is nature-based early childhood education kind of broadly and how I frame it. And then we'll talk about our why and really push you a little bit on identifying what that is. And then we're gonna apply that. How do we apply that why in our program structure, in the physical environment that we provide children and the teacher-child interactions? So that's the plan. Notice our Michigan. Amy did not share with you where I'm from. Minnesota. Every time she introduces me, she gets farther west. It used to be Wisconsin and now it's Minnesota. And then next thing you know, it's gonna be like, she's from North Dakota and then Montana and then, no, from Michigan, which is closer here, right here. But we have to get out our map, like we do the map thing, right? So I'm from right here, which is Midland. We're obligated, it's like we sign a contract with the Commission of Visitors Bureau that if we leave the state for any reason, we have to show them out. So now you know. I have done my duty, I can return home safely. All right, so broadly speaking, nature-based early childhood, my mind is the integration of two disciplines, which I briefly talked about in the video here. But there's early childhood education, right, which is concerned with child development. We're doing the best of these things. So I know you all have the quality rating improvement system, you know, stars and some of those things in the state thinking about early childhood best practices. Nature-based education does those things as well. But then also integrates environmental education. My clicker is slow tonight. There we go. Which is concerned with environmental sustainability, right? So we have sort of these dual goals in terms of outcomes from both disciplines and different priorities, right? This is again where we're rooted in our whys. But the result is in the middle here. We have all sorts of different program models from childcare all the way through third grade, right? Because I think of early childhood, it's zero to eight. The same practices are happening in elementary school as in pre-KA settings as well. And within each discipline, there's a continuum of practice. So I'm not really going to talk about the environmental education side of things, because that's not really this audience, but we see that at nature centers, you know, that sort of avoid young children because they say random things about their grandma, you know? And their dog, their dog that died last week and you're like, how do I deal with that, right? So that's kind of scary. So sometimes people avoid that audience. You all are laughing because you know, right? Because it happened today, in fact. Yeah, see? Yeah, I know. That's why I love them, because you just don't know what's gonna happen. So anyway, so there's a full range all the way up then to nature centers that have started preschools. But similarly on the early childhood side, there's a continuum as well. And this is sort of, I think, is the typical way programs find their way to this work. And so I'm gonna walk through what that continuum is. Again, this isn't for everyone, but typically this is the progression I've seen. First of all, there's programs that have no nature at all, no windows in the classroom or very few, asphalt play area, that's it, right? That's the extent of their nature. Then they decide, all right, we need to do more. And so then the typically what happens is they move towards bringing nature inside. And hopefully, that nature that's coming inside is authentic in that it's representing the local place. It's representing real critters as opposed to raccoons and bow ties. I've never seen a raccoon in a bow tie. Although that's not actually entirely true. Because I did this presentation once and had this raccoon with a bow tie. And then a week later, someone sent me a picture from Pinterest. I kid you not, was a raccoon in a bow tie. I'm like, seriously, you can find anything on the internet. I'm like, what? But generally, they're not wearing bow ties, right? So that we're representing what's real. We're avoiding the tidy nature. And sometimes not all programs do this, but I have seen some regio programs that nature is very much something to look at and it's beautiful. And so they put a provocation out, but we can't touch it. We can't mess it up, right? And even that little shift of being able to pull the petals off the flower and make a pile of them on the table, right? That has a different access and a different opportunity for learning than just looking at it. So avoiding some of that tidiness, avoiding the cutesy. My staff used to always laugh because I just, I can't stand the cutesy early childhood stuff. Drives me nuts and glitter. I can't stand that either. And they wouldn't even tell me. They're like, we're thinking about using some glitter. I'm like, no, don't tell me. But then also the stereotypes. We do a lot of apples are red. Yeah, some are red. The red apples are terrible. And we wonder why children won't eat apples, right? We give them, here's a red delicious. We know it tastes like cardboard, but please eat an apple, like what? No, some of the best apples don't have just this bright red look. They don't have eyeballs either. So moving towards really being representative inside of authentic nature. So then once programs have done that, typically the next step is to think about the area right outside the door, right? Which is their play area. Their usually fenced play space. And moving from traditional climbing equipment and slides to, okay, do we have an area that has natural playing materials? A lot of programs will start, they might have a different zone. They might have their traditional equipment and then have a zoned area. For some programs I even start with, how about just allowing kids to go up the slide? Can we start there, right? Like one day a week maybe? It's okay. And then, okay, now maybe the sticks aren't so scary. So everyone's on a different trajectory, but there's this progress that happens. Moving towards more of the natural materials with loose parts that can be manipulated. So then the problems are ever changing. Because the challenge with traditional playground equipment is they master that skill, right? Pretty quickly, the slide, I joke about going up the slide, but that is the classic example. The steps are equidistance every day. The railing is the same diameter every day. They start as toddlers and they do this kind of half shimmy and then they get to where, you know, they grow up a little more and they can like raise their hands and go up and then they can run up and then they all do what we joked about, they go to the bottom of the slide and try to come up it. And they're not trying to be difficult. They've solved the problem. Their brain is bored. Their bodies are bored. Now I need something different. And so that's why they go up the slide. But the beautiful thing is natural play areas offer that all the time. Ever changing, right? Today we saw kids like rotting logs and whoa. And then, you know, a pile of pine needles that they thought was solid and then it wasn't. And now they have to adjust for that. And that's physical development, but it's also engagement of their brain. Just like when you guys go up and downstairs, right, the steps on the slide, one day you go and it's different and it's like farther step than it normally is and you kind of do that, whoa, what just happened? And you now have to engage your brain as well as your body. So that's another, the next sort of spot on the continuum. And then the next thing that happens is figuring out how do we leave the fence? How do we go on excursions to the beyond? As we call it, which is simply, came from Claire Warden in Scotland, simply beyond the fence. And so it just sounds, you know, nice to say the beyond. So we say the beyond. And a lot of places start as just periodic trips there. Might be once a week, might be once a quarter even, but then eventually build up to where they're doing that every day. And so every day there's experiences at least in the beyond and the outdoors, outside play area, maybe inside, maybe not. But those three are options. So we say inside, outside, beyond. When people first start out, it tends to be fairly balanced between those three. And then over time, yeah, most of our time just kind of stays over here. Even in the heart of winter, even in Minnesota or Michigan or Wisconsin or whatever state I'm from. Right, so whatever day it is. So along that continuum, if you think about it, the things that make up those different elements are the program structure, which we're gonna talk more about in a bit. The physical environment of the inside, outside, beyond. And then how we interact with kids in those spaces, their teacher-child interactions. Throughout all of it, of course it's developmentally appropriate. And all of those interactions and all of those practices reflect the value we have of nature in our community culture. And that's where we get it sort of this nature-based approach. I'm gonna say this right now because, again, I'm pushing this vulnerability piece. We're all in somewhere, somewhere on this continuum. Even if you've been doing this for a year, fully nature-based, you know, the program that I was the director of, it would be way over here on this continuum, right? But it's still, it's not a finite continuum. We're always growing, we're never there. We've never reached the destination, whatever that is. And so recognize that we're all somewhere on here. And wherever you are, that's okay. And we're just trying to all kind of headed that way, right? That's our goal, is just to move farther that way. At least that's my goal. And hopefully yours, cause you're here. So a little more on the pedagogy, sort of what happens within that space. Obviously there's extensive, I say, daily outdoor time. And again, that's sort of pushing this envelope a little bit farther so that it's a regular part of their day. And we'll talk more about that in a bit. The seasonally and child-driven emergent curriculum that emphasizes learning with nature, which again we will get to in just a little bit, as opposed to just learning in the outdoors, right? Where we've taken what's inside and just gone outside with it, or learning about nature. And then the learning blurs the lines between the inside and the outside and the beyond. It flows between those three spaces. Meaning whatever we do outside has connected back to what we're doing in the classroom, what we're doing in the play area, it all intertwines. As opposed to we've done this activity inside, okay, now we're gonna go outside and do something different and then we're not really gonna talk about it again. We're gonna come back and do our regular lessons. As much as possible it blurs between. So what we're reading inside connects to what's happening seasonally outside, our writing and our reading and our math and all of that connects what's in the physical space, depending on again what age you're at. All right, so with that, oops, got some, there you go. I just really briefly am gonna highlight this so you know the terms that I use. I don't wanna spend a lot of time here. We have this really interesting problem right now in nature-based early childhood education and we have all these terms that are floating around there and we don't necessarily all mean the same thing. So this is what I mean. When I say nature-based preschools in the US, I mean the one or two years before kindergarten because for us that's what preschool means, right? In other countries that has different terms. For example, nature kindergarten in the UK is preschool age, okay? So for me it's the one or two years before kindergarten and typically the difference between a nature-based preschool and what I call a forest preschool is this time outside. So forest preschools tend to have 70 to 100% of their time outside, very little physical space indoors but they're mostly outside but it's still that time right before kindergarten. So the term forest kindergarten of course is a German term that came over Woods kindergarten or Wald kindergarten which became forest kindergarten in the US. So I just tend to use preschool because again it clarifies that I mean three and four year olds, not five and six year olds, and I don't mean in the public schools. So we just get some of these terms get a little muddy. And then nature kindergarten for me is the kindergarten in the public school or private school but five year olds the year before first grade. So just so if you hear me using those terms you know what I'm talking about. In the end it doesn't really matter, right? What it's called, what matters is the pedagogy that's happening within that. It's the teacher practices that are happening within whatever that is called that matters. And sometimes people call themselves these things and they aren't necessarily doing the nature-based approach either, right? So it can go both ways. So just sort of being good consumers that way. All right, so moving, whoa, whoa. It's just on a delay. It's just Friday night. It's like wants to be done for the week, the clicker. So the next thing, that's kind of a highlight of what is it? What are we talking about? So we're all on the same page but why? Why do we do this work? Nature right now is all the rage, right? It's in the New York Times. It's in the Atlantic. It's on the PBS News Hour. By the way, like Chippewa is covered in there. We have someone who used to work at Fiddleheads Forest School who was here. They're also in some of these articles. Like it's great to see your program in the New York Times. I will say it's pretty cool. When PBS News Hour called and wanted to do an interview, I was like, what? That's awesome, right? So that's really cool. But then the question is, but why is it all the rage? Why does it matter? We don't just want to be in the headlines. Like that's great. And I'm glad that it's making it more mainstream but what really is the purpose? And so for each of us, that's a little different. And that's coming back to this circle here, right? But why do we do this work? So for me, come on, there we go. For me, and I spent lots of time trying to figure out like what is it really for me? And I think I've come to, I truly believe that connection to nature is vital to the human experience. We cannot have, we cannot survive without the natural world, right? But it's also, so that's our physical benefits. Our physical health depends on it, right? We have to have food, water, shelter, like any other animal on the planet. We also, though, need it for our spiritual and social emotional health. And there we go. Come on, clicker. All right, so this is part of that deeper, like yeah, our physical health needs it but to really feel connected to other people, to something bigger than ourselves. For me, that's connecting to the natural world and that's what that spiritual and emotional health brings. And I also then think if I dig a little deeper that for me, there's different ways of knowing and connecting. So I say this connection with nature is vital. For me, I tend to sort of outwardly anyway connect with more of this intellectual ways of knowing and naming and that's a lot of my naturalist background environmental education. But others are very much more emotional and spiritual connection. Others, it's a just, it's physical being and recognizing that there are different ways of connecting or knowing about the natural world, right? And we can get into a whole nother discussion about indigenous ways of knowing and that all of us have this connection that you all have too, but sometimes, I mean, we all have it, but it's sort of hidden and we don't necessarily make it explicit. I was thinking one example. So I, as Amy said, grew up on a vegetable farm in central Illinois, which I think I have a photo here, a second, oh yeah, I'll come back to you. Because I wanna hit on that. But I grew up on a vegetable farm in central Illinois and so for me, that smell of the soil when it's just been turned in like late March, early April, you know, it's that, there's just something, you just know it in a way that I can't intellectually, I can't describe to you that smell, but I would be able to tell you if you did a sniff test, right, I'd be like, no, it's that one versus that bottle already, right? So that's another way of those knowing. So I also wanna go back very briefly here because I don't wanna skip over this. As a result of it being, you know, connection, being vital to human experience, I think it's vital for all humans. And so that's also part of my why is why we do this is no matter their age, their ability, their ethnicity, their class, their physical location, whether they're urban or rural, right, no matter what, everyone should have those opportunities. And so that plays out in how I do the work that I do. And so this is where thinking about your own why, you know, is important to really dig into that. And then also knowing where did your why come from and knowing your own biases that come along with it. So I grew up on a vegetable farm, as I said, look at that pile of turnips. Dad would be appalled though, because we later started washing them before we took them to market, because you can't take muddy turnips. Why? Because city folk don't like dirt on the turnips. That's what it is. Let me be totally honest, right? But you know, I grew up playing in the woods with my dogs, German short hair pointer, which I still have now. But I also came from a group of biologists and naturalists, so this is my grandfather, who was a fisheries biologist, although he called himself an aquatic biologist, because he really felt that the whole system was part of it, not just fish. And he was one of the first people to develop electrophishing, which is what he's doing there. But that background of sort of nature study and naturalist and sort of biologists world, definitely comes out in how I teach, where my tendencies tend to be. I have to really check myself. The moment someone brings me something, and I'm gonna be like, oh, like today, Amy brought over this basswood leaf, you know, with the little seeds with it, and I was like, oh, that, yeah, what you got there? You know, like, ugh, because I just wanna say it's basswood. Like, whoa, look at that beautiful basswood leaf, right? So reminding myself that not everything has to be named, I don't always have to ask them, what is it? Do you know these cool facts about it, right? I don't need to talk about the little hairs on the edge of each vein on the back of the basswood leaf. You know, four-year-olds don't really care. They're like, yeah, I was gonna make something out of that leaf, right? That's what they're worried about. So the reason I say all of this is to also remember where your why is and how sometimes that why influences good and bad, how we teach, right? And that we have to check our own sort of biases of what am I tending towards? What do I need to notice in myself? And so for me, that's a big one. Because my family, we are the pros at the dragon brag. If you ever come to dinner at our house, we'll go for a walk in the woods after. You will know more about nature than you ever wanted to know. My dad was a botanist. He'll tell you every little thing about every plant. It'll take hours. And it wasn't until recently I realized I inherited that, because I was doing it with friends and I'm like, oh, I need to stop. This is not good. So, you know, that's my why. You don't need to know a whole lot about my why, but I say all of that to help you think about what is it for you? And we're not gonna share this. This is a very personal sort of reflection, but why do you do the work you do? Why does it matter to you? And what is your programs why? And do those line up? They may or may not, right? If the school is, if you're trying to convince a principal, the principal's why maybe because you need to do better on the standardized test, right, that's a very different why than you're like, yeah, but these kids, they've experienced so much trauma and they need to be out in the woods and have that opportunity to heal socially and emotionally, right, those are very different whys and will play out differently in how we implement it, which is where we're headed now in just a second. So, as you're thinking about that why for yourself, think about why do children need experiences with nature? What should children be allowed to do, encouraged to do? What should they not be allowed to do and why? Right, so where's that bound, the boundary on what they can and can't do or shouldn't be able to do? What learning activities should be emphasized and why? Is it reading, is it science? Why do you think that? Or is it something else, social-emotional work? What's the role of the teacher and why? What role should parents play? I've been at programs where parents should be seen and not heard, right? And then I've been at others where like, they should just be part of it, they should be really active in this. Why is that? What's the reasoning for one answer or another? And then how important is diversity to you and what does that mean? We've talked Vermont, there's not a whole lot of racial and ethnic diversity, but there are many other kinds of diversity and even you do have racial and ethnic diversity as well. How do we really make sure that we're including that diversity in our programs if that's what is meaningful to us? What does that look like? How does that play out? And we'll talk a little bit about that in our how. Because all the answers to all of those questions will influence how you teach and the decisions you make day to day. And they may also then influence, oh, maybe we need to change that because it doesn't match with why we do the things we do. So before I head into the how and really kind of pushing us there, I just wanna remind us all that we are on the journey. This is progress, not perfection, right? No one is, we're never gonna be perfect as much as I strive to be. My therapist tells me it's not possible. So fine, okay. So since it's not possible, we just have to be really intentional in the decisions we make, right? That we are choosing to do the things we do as opposed to just eh, that's what happened, right? Which sometimes does happen, but as much as we can to be really intentional. As a result, you will always be making compromises and trade-offs. It will happen. Anytime you say I'm gonna spend more time outside, that means something else gets less time inside, right? Or more time that I'm gonna spend on reading and writing workshop is less time I'm spending outside. That's a trade-off and a compromise. But along the way, hopefully the why is still central to that focus there and just constantly be reflecting. Because again, it's progress, not perfection. So we're gonna talk about a few things today. You may think about some of those and then have to come back six months later and oh yeah, what were some of those other things that we thought about? So with that in mind, let's talk a little bit about how does this play out? How do we apply the why in our day-to-day? First, let's talk about program structure. So structurally, that's even the tiniest little details. Like does all those little details really reflect your philosophy? And so one of those is even the registration packet. I hear a lot of people say, fill out for preschool especially, fill out the application form. For me, that's immediately a block to everyone welcome. Because what happens is parents, I'm amazed, parents would come into our open houses. Our said register, which have different definitions, apply to make a formal request to an authority for something. So now the power structure has just changed. We talk about really trying to support marginalized groups. Well, if you're the authority and I'm saying, please allow me to attend your school, but that has a very different feeling from, just add yourself to the list, no big deal. Register. Because as I was saying, I would have parents come into open houses and start like talking about how great their kid is and all the things their kids can do. And I just really hope you'll accept them. And I'm like, why wouldn't I? They're three, right? They're age eligible, great. Come on, right? But there's so many programs that there are limits to, who can and can't attend. And even that, such a tiny little detail, sends a message about what do you believe and who do you believe should be in the program or not. So that's sort of a tiny thing that applies to everyone, not just nature-based programs. But then also like, does the structure of your day represent what you value? So a lot of programs, this is the sort of typical preschool space with these three different spaces. But a lot of programs, one of the first things I'll do is then move the outside to the beginning. And you say, well, why would I do that? And we've sort of had this debate of like, well, is that better or worse? Or no, I mean, I think if you have time at the end of the day, that's great. The thing is what happens at the end of the day always gets cut short, right? Yeah, you're all like, mm-hmm. That thing you had planned today even, it was less time than you'd originally planned was gonna happen at the end of the day. But if we do it at the beginning, it shows, no, this is what's really important. This is so important, we're doing it first. We're gonna spend all the time that it deserves. We might even let it go long. And so by shifting it to the beginning, it's not saying that nature has to happen before or later, but that this is important to us. One thing with that that I don't have in here, but that also is in terms of the structure is how often you go out. I know a lot of programs, one of the first places is we'll go once a week. How is that a different message then? We'll go every day. And it's just something we do every day as part of our regular routine. The tendency I found in the elementary school is if it happens once a week, it tends to sort of fall into the specials world. So it gets sort of the same treatment that poor music and PE get and some of those other things, which by the way, should get more time as well, right? But if we're doing it all the time, it has raised its value a little bit in our curriculum. So again, thinking about the structure. So I mentioned earlier the vulnerability idea and recognizing that we're not all perfect as much as I am disappointed by that news, we're not. So when I first started our preschool, I was really concerned about routine for kids in the very beginning. Three and four year olds, right? They need a clear routine. Get into that, like we just need to get in the routine so they know what's happening next. So we would have in September, week three, right? Like today, the weather would be like it is right now, but it's week three and they're three and four and they still don't really have the routine. I don't know if we could switch up the schedule. So we would come inside on a day like today. And at some point, I don't know when it hit, but I was just like, what am I thinking? Why am I not encouraging the staff to stay outside all day? Kids can handle that. It's the same schedule. We're still doing the same parts of the day. The location is just different. So we're still having snack, it's just outside, right? We're still having a large group or group meeting, but it's outside. And so even being willing to shift that, why not just have it all outside from day one? And they can handle it because when it comes back to, okay, now we're going inside, all right. Because they're also cold and like, yeah, we should go in, it's warm now. We're inside, right? But on a beautiful day like today, why not stay outside? And that was just one of those things that was just, it hit me like a brick wall. I was like, why? Because I care about being outside, I want them to be outside. Why would I not take advantage of a beautiful fall day like it was here today? And at that point, we were going in. So even being willing to shift that. The other thing is being willing to be flexible with time, are we flexible with time? For those of you that work with team of teachers, you probably have a timekeeper on your team. It's just a guess, not every team does, but often there's the one teacher that's like, we should have been at snack five minutes ago, right? They're like, but we have to be back inside. They're always on the time. But honestly, why not be flexible with that time? And if we're truly being responsive to children and having it being child led, then we're gonna notice what they're doing. If they're engaged in play and having a great time, whether it's winter, fall, spring, whenever it is, if they're really immersed in it and they're yet to say, I'm hungry, why are we in a hurry to go to snack? Why not allow that to continue? And I know that seems like a simple thing, but often seriously, I mean, I've had teams battle it out because someone is like, but on our schedule, it says we're doing this next. Well, yeah, but we're gonna be flexible today. And so coming back to why are we gonna be flexible? Why does it matter that we're staying in this play right now? Well, because they're engaged and the science that they're learning here, right? Or the social-emotional interactions that are happening between those two kids is something we never see with them. And so we wanna allow that to continue, to be really thinking about why are we doing that? So that's some ideas in terms of the structure, but then thinking about the physical environment. What does that physical space look like? And how do we think about our why in that space? So probably some Wendell Berry fans in their audience, I'm just guessing, for Ma, it's like, he's Kentucky boy, but still, you know, he's bond with Wendell Berry. Nature is always trying to tell us we are not so superior or independent or alone or autonomous as we may think, right? And we're seeing more and more of this every day. And this comes back to sort of my why and thinking about we need the planet and we need the planet to be healthy. And so for me, that means we're disrupting this binary of us and them or nature and humans. We like to separate ourselves and we're just, nope, we're stronger than nature and we can take care of it all. We talked about on the way to school today about the floods that you all had last year, like the massive amounts of snow. I mean, do we need to go on and on about all the things that are happening that show we are part of this system? Like it or not, we're influenced by all of this. And so our programs can help with that a little bit and blurring that line of nature and humans and that we're part of the system. So how do we do that? For one thing is to think about what counts as nature. And I admit, I have a very privileged view of what counts as nature. This is property that my family owns in Illinois, 200 acres. My family owns 200 acres of our own land. That is privileged to the highest, right? Like that's privilege to have land at all, but to have that much. So I think of it as this, like I think of it as where no one's around. I can go out there and walk and if someone's on my space, I know they need to get out, right? Like you don't belong here, right? That's privilege. And so in my mind, I have to check myself a lot of, is that all that counts as nature? What about all the things that every day that count that again, blur that line of what humans and nature? So thinking about other spaces. I started as I traveled around just taking pictures of nature because I tend to be in hotels and conference centers, thrilling when I travel. But this time I got to stay at Amy's house, which is great. But all of these things, all of these urban spaces, there's nature everywhere. There's nature. I think what was so sad about the children's dictionary when they took the word dandelion out, is because it doesn't matter where you are, dandelions are everywhere, right? They can find their way through that concrete. But sort of remember that we do have these pockets of natural elements everywhere we go, even in the airport. Now, mind you, see, and this is another privilege thing because some of you may be looking at that and going, you know, it's just a house, Barrow, right? I know, we're a little judgy, even our species. But there's birds in the airport. And I'm the, yes, I'm the weirdo that's sitting in the airport, trying to take pictures of the bird. You know, other people were like, really? Okay, but the point being how we talk about nature, what counts as nature? Even influences who has access to these kinds of programs, right? And we do a lot of work, I do a lot of work with urban programs who say, but we don't have anything, we don't have this. We don't have all this land. No, but you don't need much to be outside the classroom, right? To recognize that we're part of a bigger system. So even how we define that. And then, well, the way I structure the physical environment, think about the physical environment is moving from really highly human structured to virtually no human structure at all. And we do that through the three spaces. So the inside tends to be really designated, labeled, neatly organized, right? This is sort of our indoor human created spaces. But then outside, maybe we have general zones, but we don't necessarily have designated areas. We have a labeled, well, this is the messy area, right? And this is the art area. And we have a mix of human and natural made materials. Where inside they probably tend to be more human made. And then when we go to the beyond, it's even more organized by the natural world, right? So there's areas that we visit that we sort of talk about in order to communicate with each other. Like, oh, this is the sand hill, or this is the pine forest we always visit. But it isn't labeled with a sign, right? Natural materials are dominating. We might take some human made materials with us, but mostly it's the natural world. And so even the way we structure those three spaces show that we're, and the play changes as a result. I'm convinced, I haven't done the research yet, but I'm convinced that the way they interact with the natural world and treat the natural world changes in these three spaces. So inside, kids tend to really dominate the natural world, even outside in the play area. And then when we get out here in the beyond, it changes to a little more of like protecting this space and less really like ripping and moving. And yeah, we do some of that, but it's more, it's a different kind of interaction that happens. So it's positioning us as part of the system, as opposed to dominating over the system, if that makes sense. All right, so then the other thing and thinking about what does nature look like inside? I have sort of six big principles that I use when I talk to, especially traditional programs that are trying to shift towards a more nature-based approach. You know, are we picking natural materials over manufactured ones? Are we choosing authentic instead of cartoon-like? So even puzzles, are they real pictures as opposed to cartoons of raccoons, right? But actual raccoons or whatever other critters. Moose, which I still haven't seen. Amy's slacking, I just gotta say. I know, where are the moose? All right, avoiding stereotypes, like the fact that you go to Vermont and see a moose. But I mean, really, come on. All right, and then does it represent local nature, right? So rather than, oh, I have the dolphin puzzle, I actually have puzzles of animals that I'm gonna find here, right? Books that are here. That doesn't mean you can't talk about things that are elsewhere, but that's in comparison, too, in contrast to what we have here, right? There still needs to be that connection to place. Connecting the indoors or the outdoors, blurring those lines, so even having bird feeders right outside the windows, right? To blur that indoor outdoor space. And then are we taking advantage of science and math that's just like busting at the seams and all of this work that we do? So thinking about that, sort of how we bring nature in, by the way, this is a sign-in activity where preschoolers had to predict how many insects they were gonna find in their hike. So parents sign in every day, but then kids sign in as well. And look, it's emergent writing, right? But they're also connecting. This is one of those activities where they're connecting to what's gonna happen outside in the beyond and then back in. They've also done a little bit of math with some graphing, we've done some predicting, and then we'll do some recall later, right? So all the, even the little things that can come together for learning. There we go. The other thing is, are the materials environmentally friendly? If we come back to our why and we really care about environmental sustainability, protecting the planet, we do a lot of this stuff in early childhood, a lot of the plastic crap, right? And you can buy it cheap, made in another country. We won't name, but you know what I'm talking about, right? Like, there's a lot of that. But is that, does that really match our why and what we care about in doing this work? And for preschoolers, it tends to be, okay, I'm gonna stick a bunch of googly eyes and chenille sticks and beads on a construction paper, and then I'm gonna show it to mom, and then it's gonna go in the garbage, right? And that's it. And that's the extent of it. So even having natural materials for that changes the impact, especially if they're going out and collecting the materials for the art area. Now we've just done a double whammy, so we've connected the inside and the outside, and we're being a little more environmentally friendly. So thinking about even the practices that we're doing, the things we provide in the space and how that supports the message of why we do this work is really important. And like snack with real plates and real, those are cloth napkins that they're eating off of. All right, come on, there we go. So the other thing is thinking about the physical space is do we limit children with labels in the outside play area? There are quite a few programs that will label, I mean, we label inside often interest areas or sort of designated spaces in preschool, especially in inside classrooms. But if we do that outside of, we actually limited them. Have we kind of confined them to certain space? And I think about that a lot with the messy area. We're not allowed to be messy inside. So we'll do that when we're outside, or the good one is we're not allowed to be loud inside. We have to use our inside voices. And then we go outside, and then we're not allowed to be out there. And I always want to go, where do we use our outside voices? If it's not outside, that happens. But also thinking about where can we be messy? Why does it have to just be one designated space? Can it be everywhere? And so are we limiting them by us putting our own views of what a space should or shouldn't be? And so I was recently with a program where we talked about this and they said, yeah, but the one reason I label things outside is I want them to have environmental print. Okay, so that kind of comes back to this why of but I'm preparing them with these academic skills. Okay, how can we achieve that same goal but not have designated labels? So one solution we came up with was every time they leave the hike for their hike, they meet at the gate. Well, why not have a checklist that now not only is environmental print, but is meaningful? Because most of the time the labels for interest areas kids don't really care about. But now we're gonna go through, all right, do we have our backpack? You know, do we have our walkie-talkie or how many kids do we have? Who's not here? So forth. And that allowed them to support the why of the environmental print, but also not limit kids in the indoor or outdoor play spaces. So continuing with physical environment, come on computer. Another one that I've lately been thinking about is we have mud kitchens. Mud kitchens are everywhere. Oh my gosh, if you do a Google search, I told you, queen of Google, you do a Google search, I should have done it before we started. It's like thousands and thousands. It's crazy. Everyone's doing mud kitchens, which is good, right? It's good that they're trying to provide loose part play and natural materials and so forth. But why is it a mud kitchen? Why isn't it a lab? If we care about STEM, why have we limited it to kitchens? It was a really interesting study. I think it was out of Norway, but I can't remember. That looked at teachers and the conversations they were having in the sandbox. The conversations were all about baking and cupcakes and what flavor of pie and all of that and ice cream, right? It was all food related and that was the extent of it. Where if we open it up just a little bit more, now the conversation has potential to go to all sorts of things. And I realized that it's nice. The kitchen materials are easy to get. Salvation Army and it, you know, but you could still have buckets and beakers and it could be science related. It could be some other sort of lab. They could name it. They could be making potions, right? And they're doing that anyway, but it changes even the adults perception in the space of this isn't just a kitchen. I can talk more than, about more than just baking. And cupcakes, which are delicious, but you know, just extend that a little more. So another thing in thinking about the physical environment and now sort of thinking about the beyond. Do we provide materials in the beyond that honor the purpose of the beyond? So one day I was out and my staff had a Bluetooth speaker and they were playing music to transition from one spot on the hike to another. And they had this song that was going and I about lost my mind, right? I was like, what is happening? And I realized that was my why. That isn't for me, that isn't what the beyond is about. The beyond is about us being smaller and the listening to the birds and right hearing all of those other sounds. For them, it was, yeah, but we got these kids that we got to transition from one space to another. And so we had a great discussion about it, but recognizing like, do the things we do in those spaces, the materials we provide in that space really honor what we're trying to do in the beyond in particular. Because we tend to talk about, oh, the beyond is this opportunity to connect with something bigger than ourselves, to be part of this sort of magical world, to have these moments of wonder and awe. But if you're always go, go, go and you're always talking and you've got music playing, do you have the opportunity to experience those? The kids have the opportunity. So to really be thinking about, again, back to the why we're in that space in the first place. So then finally, I wanna think about teacher-child interactions, things that happen, how we actually talk to kids and the activities we provide in those spaces and how that connects to our why. So in the video at the very beginning, and I think I mentioned earlier, we tend to think about nature-based early childhood as including learning in. It's the natural world about and with. And hopefully more emphasizing that with part. But learning in is where you've simply taken whatever you would do inside and moved it out. So the art easel has just gone from the inside to the outside. It's on the porch or it's out, you know, okay. We just took the book bin and we went like this. And that's just simply learning in. It doesn't require nature in any way. It's just out there. And it tends to be teacher-led, but sometimes it's child-led as well. Then there's learning about. So it occurs both indoors or outdoors. Could be either place. But the content tends to be focused on nature. So we're trying to convey some sort of information in some way. This tends to be, I find, those that come from environmental education tend to find themselves here more often, right? Like, oh, but I want you to know about this cool thing. And traditional, more early childhood, people tend to sort of be more in the learning in space. And then hopefully where we're all moving towards is learning with. So it primarily occurs in nature because essentially it means nature is the third teacher, which is a very regio idea, right? That nature has provided this opportunity for a learning moment. It's cognitive or social-emotional in some way. It's almost always outside. In fact, it's always outside the teacher's plans, right? You weren't planning on it. You couldn't have planned for it. And as a result, it's child-led. So here they are around a pile of scat, right? Like, I couldn't plan that, well, halfway through our hike, we're gonna find a beautiful pile of scat on this trail and we're gonna stop and talk about it. Like, you can't plan for that, right? But once we do find it, by God, I'm gonna take advantage of it, you know, the classic teachable moment. But that's this idea of learning with it. It's providing us opportunities and learning moments that we couldn't have planned for. And we, as teachers, are taking advantage of that, ideally. So thinking about, are we really emphasizing that learning with? You know, one of the activities, this was a alphabet sort that they did. I've done another activity with the kids where we would do a sign-in. They'd come in and the first letter of their name is missing and where are they? Well, they're out in the woods and so we go out wandering through the woods and find the letters. And it's a fun activity. And they, you know, we're walking through the woods. It's alphabet letter recognition. I mean, there's all sorts of benefits to it. It's not bad. It's somewhere on the continuum, though, because it really isn't about connecting with nature in any way. It's just simply in nature. It could have been in the building. We could have done the same thing. Where's our missing letter? Right, so thinking about how much are we moving towards? Wow, cool. I found this cool, you know, fungus on the stick that I didn't know was gonna be cool to that kid. But now I'm, you know, taking advantage of that moment and we're embracing. And then, you know, thinking about scat and so forth, which we had a great fun finding scat today. Scat's always fun. Scat is so much fun, right? Kids love it, love it. It's never not fun. And then thinking about how do our conversations with kids and on the activities we lead cross those bounds. So if we're out in the woods and we're talking about scat, are we doing something with that back in the classroom? Are we reading a story about deer? If we've, you know, found a deer scat, are we somehow counting related to that? How do those things connect in all of these three spaces? And just being really intentional about that. The other thing is thinking about in our interactions, where's the bounds on risky play? Where is that for you? You know, what gives you heartburn? For me, the barefoot all day long gives me heartburn. I'll be honest, it does. Because for me, I want them to have a positive experience in the outdoors. That means safe. And there's all sorts of stuff. And like, I want them running around. Now that doesn't mean there aren't times for controlled barefoot. But just any time, any old time, for me, those are our wheels and you get hurt. You know, now you're out of commission, right? You can't walk anywhere with us. And by golly, I'm not carrying you back to the building. So for me, I don't allow just free-range barefoot. That's a boundary for me. May not be for you. And maybe, no, that's okay. Or we have a space. I mean, there are definitely times where I have designated times in areas where, yeah, because it's a great experience to have. Or take your shoes off and dig in the mud. You know, put them in the mud. But maybe it's not just all of the time. So whatever that boundary is, whether it's tree climbing, so forth, but knowing what is that boundary and why, right? Why am I saying that that is the bounds? Because again, what's my goal in the first place? Also thinking about things like how much and what animal handling is okay. Some programs are like, nope, we're not touching an animal at all. Others are like, well, yeah, why wouldn't we? And I am very much of the yes, let's touch them. Because if you don't have an experience to touch it, you won't be interested in it and you definitely won't care about it. And so, yeah, there might be a loss of a frog or two, but they're like the sacrificial frogs for the betterment of the planet, right? So that that kid actually cares about the planet long-term. So that's why it's just like, they took one for the team. Doesn't happen often, but you know what I mean. You all work with young children. It can happen, right? But thinking about what counts and what doesn't. When can we handle things? When can't we? What are the safety protocols, of course, that go with that for both the care of the animal and the child for health both ways. But just why do we say one way or another? What's the reasoning behind that? Which again, that's why I allow it because I'm like, no, I want this emotional connection to the planet, to the natural world. Then also thinking about what conversations should we have and should we not have? They're hard conversations. So sometimes we find dead things, right? And now we have to figure out, okay, how do we deal with this? That's one thing, to find it and how do we have the conversation about it? Some of us really push the bounds, like me. And we just like strategically plant dead things and then we just happen to find them, right? So it's like there's having the conversation and there's like, we're gonna have the conversation, right? So we full on have the conversation. And it does lead, there are definitely conversations about from science to life, right? To where does it go when it dies? I mean, you know, some of this like, what's going on? But mostly it's where it's eyeballs. Last week it had eyeballs, right? Or now the guts are way over here. Or man, look at all these tracks of what's here. And this actually becomes a big study for us. I mean, it was just a thing. And so it's always in the wintertime. Like seriously, we put it there. Roadkill deer. Cause we have a collection, you know, we can collect and put, especially, I mean, deer, roadkill deer, we put it out in the woods and then happen to find this thing. And it's always in the snow. So you can see all the tracks of all the animals that have been there. And then the conversation is, oh, who was here when we weren't? And I wish we could see them. And then almost always that leads to placing a trail, motion sensor trail camera, right by the deer. And so then we'll come back and visit and see how it's changed. But then also look at the pictures. And that's really powerful. I mean, to have like, there was one picture of a raccoon and a skunk together, right? And they were like, raccoon, what are you doing? Run away. Like you're gonna get sprayed. But then to talk about, why is the raccoon not worried about getting sprayed, right? Cause, you know, skunks not gonna, doesn't even care, cared about the raccoon. Cause he wasn't born in a bow tie. Cause he's not gonna eat him, right? But so having those conversations, but then it does lead to some deeper conversations about death and so forth. And we had one child once that struggled a little bit with this. And it was like, oh, that was a little unexpected. Well, it turned out at home, grandma had recently passed away and the dog was on the last legs, was about to die as well. And so now you've got this child grappling with, but where do things go when they die and what happens and I don't want my dog out in the woods, right? And so, but it's hard conversations, but important ones to have. Unfortunately, not conversations that everyone necessarily is ready to have. So I wrote this sort of thing I do. Claire Warden calls it the Laramore pedagogy cause I love to put dead stuff. I mean, it comes up a lot actually that I put a lot of dead things out. So she's named it that. But so I wrote this up in an article and for a magazine and the magazine came back and the photo that was included in it was this one, which is a stuffed animal and it's a totally different activity that we used to do with kids where we'd put stuffed animals out in the woods and then they'd go and rescue them and we'd pretend that we're doing jobs of medical stuff. But this was the alternative and I'm like, no, no, that wasn't what it was at all. And so for me, this was a good reminder of not everyone is here, right? We're all on a journey and many are not here yet. And especially of those of us that have been doing this work a while when we work with really traditional folks in sort of traditional realms, this is a big shock. I mean, I have a lot of, sometimes I put this up and the teachers in the room will be like, oh no. No, and you just hear these no's across the board. I'm like, okay, I'm just throw it out there as a possibility for the future. Just throw it out there. But thinking about what are we willing to talk about and not, are we willing to have conversations about how the weather's changing, how the climate's changing, right? Oh, these things are blooming sooner than they used to or so forth. Just again, thinking about where those bounds are. Then the other question that I'll leave you with in terms of teacher-child interactions is are we overdoing documentation? I believe you're not having my phone over there. I took it out for this talk. So I've been away from my phone for like an hour. It was a long time for me, right? We tend to be, we have our phones with us all the time. Every teacher has one. Oh, this is cool, I'm gonna take a picture. Oh, this is really cool. I'm gonna document it. I'm really, it's all great. But have we resulted from these amazing moments that are happening all of the time? Do we now have children that are growing up like this? You know, and are they just like, yeah, okay. And I've noticed it, especially when kids, I'll be like, I'm just gonna try to take this real subtly and maybe they won't notice me. And then they stop. Yeah, and they do the grin, right? Or the pose or the, it's just like, oh, that wasn't what I wanted at all. I didn't wanna interrupt the play and the wonderful moment that was happening. But by the moment I tried to document it, that's exactly what happened. So are there other ways we can document from artwork, from their writing, from just conversation, right? At snack time, retelling what we just did. We all know that when you just talk about it, sometimes you remember it better actually than if you took that picture, because you tend to just remember the picture as opposed to the whole moment. So thinking about, you know, are we overdoing that? So one program I was working with, we talked about this and they're like, yeah, I just feel like we're just always on our phones and that's so counter to what we're trying to do, right? We're trying, this whole idea is like disconnect from technology and all we're doing all day long is just taking pictures and videos. And so they actually started with having one day a week because they were going out every day. One day a week, no technology. Just nope, the phones do not come out. No child should see a phone on Wednesdays or Mondays or whatever. And they started there and then slowly found, oh yeah, I'm just gonna document when it really matters. Because otherwise you, anyway, as you all know, you have thousands and thousands of photos that go in a folder. And then at the end of the semester for parent teacher conferences, you're like, oh, I have to sort through all those photos and figure out which one I want, right? As opposed to just focused on the really important moment that really documents the learning that you were trying to think about for that particular child. All right, so that's one of those, another way to think about teacher child interactions and how does our why play out in that? So that's sort of where we've been broadly as we started with what is nature-based early childhood, thought about what is our why, and then thinking about how does this play out in those three different ways, program structure or physical environment or interactions. There are thousands and thousands of other questions to ask. And I just sort of gave you a few to be thinking about. By the way, I have to. I can't help myself. Does everyone recognize these little trails? Yeah, the trails in the subnivian layer when the snow melts, yeah. So in that, I thought this group would appreciate it. I usually end that in the where we've been and people don't get the connection. I think it's like the subtle, like really cool. Yeah, thank you for laughing and appreciating my subtle cue to the audience. So thinking about where do you go moving forward? You know, really truly think about why do you do this? Why is it important to you to do this work every day? To you, why is it important to your program? And then also be thinking about why is it for parents? Is that different? Is that the same? Does that change what I do? Does that just change how I talk about it in different settings? But really truly thinking about what that why looks like. And then thinking about how does that why manifest? What does that look like in terms of your program structure, your physical environment, and your teacher-child interactions, right? What is that? How does that play out day to day? I just gave you a few. Again, there's thousands of decisions you're making every day. Are we really being intentional about that and representing what we're trying to achieve in the end? Because we have all these grand notions. We say about, oh, nature does all these wonderful things for children. Is our program structured to make that happen? And is that really where we're headed? So with that, I always say, sort of jokingly started one time with my staff, sort of jokingly saying, oh, yeah, we're changing lives. And it was just sort of this like, joke. But then I realized, really, we are changing lives. And that is the goal. That's the why for me. That's why I'm in education. That's why I'm in nature-based education is I really do wanna change the world, right? In my little part of it. And so together, we can all do that and hopefully continue to change lives together. So with that, I will open it up to any questions or comments or thoughts you may have. And this is all the ways you can find me if you wanna find me. In Michigan, not Minnesota or Wisconsin. Minnesota, Wisconsin. Anyway, questions, comments, thoughts. Look it out of the way. This is such a new thing, like it's so funny. It was about five years ago, I really started to notice. Like the note-taking. Cause you're like, all of a sudden, one time I was at a presentation and people just started doing this. I'm like, what is happening? Like, I mean, I know I'm attractive, but really? Like, come on. And then I realized, oh, that's not me. Oh, it's the slides. Okay, yeah, anyway. Well, yeah. Yeah, this question comes up a lot. And this is another one of those sort of philosophical, for me, a philosophical question about early childhood in general. You tend to hear a lot preschool's job is to get kids ready for kindergarten, right? It's kindergarten readiness. And that we're gonna teach them how to behave the way kindergarten expects of them. This is my, perhaps, bold statement is I'm not, they're not in kindergarten right now. They're in preschool right now. And this is childhood. So I'm gonna provide that for them. Maybe kindergarten needs to change to be developmentally appropriate. There's that. Maybe sitting for 45 minutes straight doing a worksheet is not developmentally appropriate. So there's that. But then there's also like, they can handle it. They can make that transition. Just because they're free to do this now, they know that now I sit still here in this space. Just like at home, I know these are the rules. And then when we go to the restaurant, like at home, I can get up and go get a toy and bring it to the table. But at the restaurant, I have to sit. Or at grandma's, I behave this way versus somewhere else. So I think sometimes we don't get kids enough credit. Like, well, they're not gonna be able to handle that transition. They'll be just fine in terms of that expectations. Now, back to your earlier sort of, as you started, I was thinking about this idea of self-regulation, right? And there is this thought of, well, if we just allow them to run freely, then how are they learning to self-regulate? But there's still self-regulation opportunities in those moments, right? And the fact is, they're running because they can't self-regulate. And they need that, like, maybe they're pro, who knows what all they're processing, right? Whether it's trauma or it's this other kid is too loud or I mean, we don't know it's competition over resources, so forth. But having that opportunity to burn the energy off, as we say, right? Then does allow for a little more focus. And actually, one famous study that came out of the University of Illinois looked at kids in green spaces. And these were older kids, but kids that had symptoms of ADHD, when they played in green spaces, they had fewer symptoms of ADHD. They were able to focus more strongly afterwards after playing outside in green spaces. So actually, maybe allowing them to have that play time then allows them to attend and self-regulate and be successful at it, as opposed to constantly being told you're not sitting still, sit still, sit, sit, you know, crisscross applesauce, crisscross apple, like really, oh, they can't do it. That's why they're doing this, right? They need to move around. So maybe allowing that and then we can attend. And that's what we're thinking about always being willing to shift the schedule. So if they're not self-regulating in the classroom, well, maybe we actually need to go out first and have that time. And then ask them to attend to this task that requires a little more attention and sitting still. So, and that's just all dependent on individual children and the settings and right, but pushing ourselves a little bit that way. But back to your bigger thing. Yeah, just being an advocate is also, at least for me, a big part of this work is saying, nope, this is not to villainarily appropriate. And you take that on up to whatever other grades, but I'm not gonna let you, I'm not gonna let you ruin preschool. But in general, even in kindergarten and first grade to remember as much as we can to be developmentally appropriate. And you cannot pay me enough money in the world to be a kindergarten teacher. Bless you for those of you that are because that is hard work. We have the same number of kids in preschool with one teacher now in kindergarten. You kind of hope for a para-pro, right? Someone else, because you have another body in the classroom. But now the pressures for standardized tests have just come down farther and farther from third to second to first to now it's kindergarten's fault. And so preschool just needs to keep saying it's not our fault, they're kids here, right? Anyway, that's a whole other, sorry. That's a little soap boxy. Other questions, comments? Yeah? No, I like that a lot, absolutely. Because it's, and that is sort of that blurring the line that we're not separate from it, right? That it's part of this thing and we're learning how we're part of the system and that it's all connected. Yeah, yeah, thanks. Uper, we got a Uper. There's always a Uper in the crowd. I know, I tried. I tried and I always struggle with my clicker in my hand and I struggle with it, I know. And there's always a Uper in the upper peninsula. We call them Upers. The upper peninsula. All right, so we got my hand and then I got, part of it is I'm doing it for you. Part of it, let's be totally honest, is I struggle with the like, okay. So, right, because it actually is this way and then the UP's up this way and I struggle with the like spatial thing as I'm talking and which hands and yeah. But we do have the beautiful upper peninsula that is not in Canada, but is part of Michigan and not in Wisconsin. Sorry, there's always a Uper in the crowd that's like the other half of the state. Sorry. All right, we have reached 7.30. So thank you all so much. I will be here if you have questions, comments, happy to chat. I do have a sign up over there for my email. If you don't want to find me there, you can find me there in books and all of that stuff. So happy to stick around. Thank you all so much, it's fun.