 Smart Money Coaching provides free one-on-one financial coaching to anyone who lives, works or receives services in San Francisco and that's regardless of immigration status. Smart Money Coaching services are funded by multiple San Francisco City departments and are provided by three service providers who have expertise in providing financial capability services to various communities in San Francisco. Balance is one of our service providers and our two Smart Money Coaches joining us today are from Balance. Without further ado, let me go ahead and introduce you today's presenters. Roger has extensive roots in the City of San Francisco, having attended Reardon High School in San Francisco State University where he earned his Bachelor of Science degree in Marketing. Roger has a passion for helping others. Roger says, I like to draw from my experiences to find solutions to helping everyone from colleagues to random people on the streets. The opportunity to solve the dilemma ignites a fire under me every day. Howard has been with Balance for 27 years and has worked in the financial services sector for almost 30 years. Howard's advice to clients is to not focus on your past failures but to build on your current successes. Howard, Roger, go ahead and take it away. Thank you, Andrea. Good morning, everybody. My name is Roger Chen, as Andrea said. I am one of the Smart Money Coaches here in San Francisco. I want to thank you for making time to spend time with us and hopefully, when all is said and done here, that you'll be able to really understand what we do with the Smart Money Coaching, how we are a resource to you and how we can work together as partners. Alongside with me is Howard Vitale Jr. He is a fellow coach and our lead coach who again has had 27 years of experience in this industry. So it's a privilege and a pleasure to be here. So before we begin, I do want to let you know that this presentation is just with a full disclaimer. It's for information purposes only. I should not be used as a foundation or the playbook in terms of any financial advice, legal advice, etc. and all. In situations like that, please consult a legal expert, a licensed attorney, or a certified financial planner for clarification and for more details on your unique financial situation. So this presentation is for anyone struggling with debt and that could be all of us in general as a blanket statement. Those that starting out that want to gain literacy on the process of getting out of debt, those that have debt but are proactively trying to reduce it, trying to strategize, trying to work payment plans to bring down the debt. And then there are those that are barely trading water that are on the verge of sinking drowning that are behind on debts that really are just trying to find a situation to stop the hemorrhaging and just how to deal with debt collectors, just lawsuits, just a lot of engagement from just all directions. In addition, financial professionals can benefit from this presentation. You just to really seek strategies and best practices to better support their customer base. So on the topics that we'll cover today, we're going to start with the components of the savings plan. We're going to also talk about student loans, which is the new hot topic now that payments are being restarted. And for the main meat and potatoes of this presentation, tools and strategies for getting out of debt. And as you can see, we have five facets here. Strategies like building a, you know, just paying off debt snowball, refinancing, debt management, negotiating with your creditors, and at the very worst case scenario, bankruptcy conversation. So we'll go to three components of the savings plan from left to right. As you can see, an emergency fund, a rainy day fund, as is also known as the umbrella, basically just to be able to have funds ready for that emergency, you know, renovation, or like a pipe leak and such and everything, you know, you're able to make those repairs right away. Third term savings, savings, basically, if you're looking to gear up to purchase something big, like, I mean, what's the new fangled thing? Taylor Swift tickets and such, you know, just to save up for those tickets, or car, or, you know, just new equipment and newest iPhone. And then you also have long-term savings, anything from investments to college funds to nest eggs, and even, you know, just for those that are of a certain age, real estate and property. That's only just three facets and really viewpoints on really just how it's a look at savings. So how do we plan for emergency savings with the emergency fund? Simple calculation is to multiply your financial needs by six. So that way you have that cushion, that buffer, the term I like to use buffer time to be able to have that protection ready. So when it does come that emergency crisis and stuff, you're in a position to be able to fund it without any hitch. So as you can see here, once you do use your emergency fund, definitely deductibles, you know, just like I said earlier, just crises that were unplanned for, family emergencies, medical emergencies, just renovations on the house. And if you look to the middle to end to the right, these are things that you should not use an emergency fund for and I'll just hold it there as you kind of look at it. And with in terms of, as you can see, some of those facets and all you definitely use your short-term and long-term investment funds for those as opposed to the emergency funds right away. So I'd like to hand it over to Howard about student loans. Howard, would you take the mic, please? Sure. Thank you. And thank you everyone for being patient. So we just wanted to talk a little bit about the student loans just kind of briefly. So there are two types of student loans. There's the federal student loans and they're typically from the U.S. Department of Education. Also with the federal student loans, just there are a lot more payment options and I know that the student loans, the federal ones, were on pause for the last few years. But most people now who have the federal loans, the payments have started this month. Also, there's the private student loans. These typically come from a private lender. They typically do have higher interest rates and they would have less payment options as opposed to federal student loans. In certain circumstances, they may be able to be eliminated by filing bankruptcy, but it is very difficult, not impossible to possibly include them into a bankruptcy. So sometimes, as it says here, private student loans have lower interest rates. Honestly, I haven't really seen that, but if you do refinance your federal loans with a private lender, you can permanently lose access to the special repayment plans. As I mentioned with the federal student loans, there are a lot of income-based repayment plans that you can ask your servicer to see if you might qualify. They are going to ask you to submit certain documentation. I have even seen some of my clients get payments as low as $0. So that's great. One of the other things I just wanted to briefly mention is for those borrowers who may be in default. And when we say default, we're talking about 270 or more days of being in default with your student loans. There is this great new program called Fresh Start. So it may be something that you may be eligible for that you may want to look at. With the Fresh Start program, it's typically geared to rehabilitating your student loans and getting the default notation off your credit reports. Next slide. Thank you, Howard. So before we talk about any debt strategies and stuff, we always want to empower you to really look and identify the six steps to get out of debt. First of all, if you will define your debt, acknowledge your debt and see exactly what is there. Understanding the resources around you. I think one of the great things about us over at Smart Money Coaching, we try to provide as many resources for our clients because this can be daunting. And if you don't have a sense of direction or plan of where to go, you will just go with what you know, just if you will, will versus skill. So the great thing about partnering with a Smart Money Coach is we're going to expose and introduce you to resources and that you'll be able to utilize them as you see fit. And clarifying priorities. Knowing which ones. And I'm going to talk about that in the next slide about snowball effect. And also reviewing your options. Again, going back to planning out just strategies to get out of debt. What's the best way to do it? Like I said, the last worst case scenario might be bankruptcy. There are other strategies we'll talk about in the coming slides. And once you have everything laid out, the foundation is ready to complete. Set it in motion. You just run with it. Just go all in and just really cross the process and watch it grow. And as a part of that is checking your progress as well too. Are you trending in the right direction? Are you struggling here? Are you hitting barriers? It's a great thing about taking control, finding your voice and really executing your plan. It allows you to make changes. Adjustments on the fly as you see fit. So one of the strategies is about that snowball. Now I'll have you read the slide, but in short, that snowball is talking about taking your biggest ticket items on your, just if you pull up all your debts and such. All the bigger ticket items, maybe a house, car, note, et cetera. Making minimum payments on those and whatever remaining money is left available in your cash flow, attack the lowest ones as best as you can. The conversation I have with my clients, for example, so I just kind of reverse it where basically with all the lower charge items that are on like your credit card report, pay them off all the way. And then when you get to the higher ticket items, make those minimum payments as need be. I think when you look at a credit report and you see, well, why do I have $2 on here on XYZ credit card item, et cetera, might as well pay it off, clear it. And just to use a landscaping analogy, clear the weeds so it allows your credit score to grow even more because that distraction or that is out of the way. As you can see, it also covers any debt and the requirements to doing debt snowball is to make sure that everything is current. So we're going to talk about the pros, cons and things to avoid. The beautiful thing about debt snowball strategy is it's very simple. It's as simple as I presented. And just as you apply it and you really go through it, it's as simple because you have control. You are building the strategy around you. And like I said earlier about eliminating those smaller items on your credit report credit cards, it'll grow your credit score once those accounts go from like $50 to zero. And there's no pressure from creditors because you're making payments and you're doing it on your terms. Now, one of the cons about it is it can be expensive and time consuming. While you're eliminating the smaller ticket item amounts, if you will, you're making minimum payments on the higher ticket items, compound interest kicks in and such. And so you might be paying more on interest rates than you would be technically if you were paying more for like the higher ticket items and such. But it's one of those, you know, just pick what you need to pick. But I think that strategy of that snowball is good because again, you're picking off the smaller amounts. You're taking care of the low hanging fruit while dealing with the larger ticket items in earnest, etc. There can also be just really just a lack of focus in terms of the second top, you know, second item about being difficult, you know, to just really keeping discipline. I mean, as you're paying things down, and you're saying, well, this is still going up. There could be just feelings of dejection. You know, it's like my debt isn't being paid. You know, just my credit score is still dropping as such. So it's like, why bother? But I think the reassurance is to stick with the plan and go with it. Again, just the more low hanging fruit you take out, the more that you're going to be ready to take on the bigger ticket items as you progress. I mean, this is really more of a marathon and not a sprint. So you must really have that mindset for that. And that being said, in terms of that snowball and strategizing reassigning your money, you may have to cut areas of spending in other facets of your life. I mean, it could be as simple as saving $5 on Starbucks, you know, in a work week. I mean, quick math, $25 a week, $100 a month, $1,200 a year. It is doable. It may hurt. However, though, the challenges look ahead, look at the big picture and see the kind of money, more cash flow that will be entered into your budget and the avoid part. And I think we can all relate to this, making unrealistic plan that you cannot stick with. I mean, virtual show of hands, how many people have said, oh, my nearest resolution is to lose 30 pounds. That's great and all. However, though, you have a plan of attack, you have a method, you have a strategy. I mean, to dream is great, but to really execute is going to help you achieve your goals and such to plan out to strategize and execute. So I mean, it may sound really good to try to eliminate XYZ debt, but if you don't have a pathway, if you don't have a written down plan, then really that strategy is going to be fruitless. So Howard, I'd like, would you kindly take the refinancing topic, please? Perfect. So one of the other strategies that you could consider to pay off debt is what we call refinancing. And a definition of refinancing is when you borrow money from other lenders to repay your existing debts. It's only going to make sense if the new loans or credit cards have lower interest rates than your current existing debts. Now, typically, any debts would be covered, but typically in order to do refinancing, you're going to need to have good credit. So typically, if you potentially have a low credit score, refinancing or possibly getting a loan to pay off your existing high interest rate credit cards may be difficult if you have a low credit score. So you just want to keep that in mind. But for someone maybe who has a lot of credit cards that have high interest rates, 20%, 21%, if you add up all of your monthly minimum payments, potentially if you could get a loan that could be enough to cover the balances on those accounts, you would then typically have one monthly payment at a certain interest rate, making a little bit easier to just make that one monthly payment instead of making several payments. Also, with a lot of my clients that I see who get car loans, this is one of the biggest things. A lot of clients going into getting a car loan, it may be easy to get a car loan, but because of a high interest rate based on maybe a low credit score, you may have to pay a high monthly payment, for example, on the car loan. But typically after so many months or maybe a year, a lot of loan companies may reassess your situation. And if you've been able to demonstrate that you have a good payment history, you may be able to refinance it, thus getting a lower interest rate, which in turn would mean a lower monthly payment. Next slide. Talking about some of the pros of refinancing, it makes getting out of debt more affordable. As I mentioned just a few minutes ago, it may lower your monthly minimum payments or your interest rate. Some of the negatives, it's not always available, as I just mentioned again, depends on your credit score. Also time to spend shopping around for rates. One of the things that you do want to keep in mind that you really want to try to avoid is getting, for example, a consolidation loan that may require collateral. Car, so a lot of the times people may get what they call title loans. Getting a title loan, you're basically securing that loan with a vehicle. A home loan, possibly taking a loan against your home, that loan is being attached to collateral and other assets. Also you want to try to avoid loans or credit cards with variable interest rates and higher fees as well. One of the things I also just wanted to go back to, when you're looking at also refinancing and maybe looking at, for example, a lot of us who have good credit, they may get a new credit card that may offer some sort of a promotional balance rate transfer. A couple of the things that you also want to just be mindful of is a lot of these balance transfer options, although that they may give you let's say 0% for 18 months, you really want to look at the cost benefit analysis because a lot of those do have a balanced transaction fee. Just make sure that you weigh all that when you're looking at these options. Thank you, Harrod. Strategy number three, individual hardship plan. I'll have you look at the slide as I really try to talk about it in summary and I'm just going to tell you a story. For those of a certain age who know who the entertainer Wayne Newton is, it was a point in time where his ranch was on the verge of foreclosure and just for whatever reason wasn't able to make payments. It was a situation where his friend, and this was before he became President Donald Trump, told them something that really sticks true and rings true. Talk to the banks. Tell them, hey, you want to make these payments. Basically, be the voice. Find your voice and talk to those that you owe money to. Be the person as opposed to being customer number XYZ. And the great thing about it is when you have that open line of communication with those that you owe money to your creditors, they may be able to offer hardship plans that's normally never offered to the general public. I have a passion in food and such and also as much as I love to read the menu, I always like to see what's in the secret menu, modifying, just making additions and just making it my way, if you will, and just no pun intended without any of the restaurant chain slogans. But the reality is about having individual hardship plans to put yourself out there to build that relationship with your whoever's holding just the debts, if you will, and just be able to see what options are there. Now, the great thing is that it covers credit cards and some personal loans as well too. I mean, I remember in during COVID era, when I'd call into my credit card company, it would say if you've lost your job, we have special financial hardship, assistance plans and all that we can help, please press zero to talk to an operator. So the reality is out there, but as a consumer, if you are in a situation where you feel like repaying debt is overwhelming, this could be definitely a conversation that you can have with your financial institution or whoever's holding your loan. Another requirement as you can see, it does require account closure. So definitely it's one of those where you might miss one to three payments and then just you're on your process and stuff in terms of being able to execute a hardship plan. So the pros content avoids on these, as you can see with the pros, it'll definitely save you money overall because it lowers your monthly payments. And you have the choice to pick and choose what strategy, which debt you want to really use this strategy for. Now the cons, like I said, it's not available for all debts. Like I said, this may not be offered to the general public. So you would have to actually ask and build that relationship and really uncover. It does, again, like I said, require permanent account closure. And you'll also see reported mispayments to the credit boroughs. And I think one of the key things, one of the things about credit history is the length of having a credit card. If I were to do over again, I had a credit card back in college in almost 30 years ago. In retrospect, I wish I kept that because when you pull my credit report, it's going to say, well, Roger's had credit for at least almost 30 years and such and all. So the fact that that credit card got closed many moons ago, I kind of wish I had that to add that tenure to my credit report. So in a situation like this, if you were to go individual hardship plan, do not just cancel out or just close out your oldest credit card, because that will shorten the credit length history for your credit report. And to follow up on that and to double down on that, keeping your oldest account definitely, like I said earlier, kind of saying it now, I'm seeing my wheels again, by keeping an older, the oldest, just lines of credit on your account, it'll have a positive impact on your credit report credit score. So if you can do it, keep it. Oh, and Howard. Okay. So a couple other strategies, I'm going to talk about two strategies because there are a couple, several differences. So one of the options that I'm a big supporter of because I've been doing this for so long and I've seen these programs is getting credit counseling and also mainly a DMP. And if you don't know what a DMP stands for, it's a debt management plan. So with the debt management plan, it is a special program that's offered with the creditor's permission to typically reduce the interest rate and monthly payment. And what you would be able to typically do is to consolidate all of those creditor accounts into making one monthly payment. So these are typically done by working through a credit counseling agency. And we do have that with the parent company that I work for, which is Balance. So that is something that they are able to talk to clients about if it is something that you're interested in. Now, this is a repayment plan that's typically going to last, it can't last more than three to five years. It does typically require you to put all of the accounts on the program. They may allow you to keep one account open for emergencies. It's typically only going to be primarily for unsecured debts. And when I say unsecured debts, that means typically credit cards, unsecured loans, meaning loans that don't have collateral attached to them, you're not going to be able to consolidate any sort of student loans or IRS debt or child support. So those types of debts are not eligible to be put into a repayment plan. Now, it's very important that if you do enroll into this payment plan, that you're aware that if you do miss typically one or more payments, the DMP can be canceled. So this is a voluntary arrangement between you and typically the credit card companies. So that's something to keep in mind. And I think one of the most important things that if I think a client might be a good candidate for a program like this, we really want to make sure that it is going to be a payment that is going to be affordable for the client. So our counselors can take a look at what arrangements we might have with these creditors. And again, that's through our parent organization balance. The credit counseling is free. But again, it is very critical that it is a monthly payment that a client can afford. Also, any accounts that are enrolled in the debt management plan, they are permanently closed. Debt that usually typically have or are late more than 90 days or maybe in collections are typically not something that's going to be eligible to be consolidated in this debt management plan. So that's a little bit about the debt management plan. Now, also for someone who comes into the debt management plan and let's say they may be fairly current on their accounts, initially there may be a slight impact on the credit score. But we've done a lot of tests and over time, the credit impacts are going to be very minimal. And again, you have to think about the goal is to get this debt paid off as soon as possible as opposed to paying on a debt for 20 years. If you're paying a high interest rate account with a lower monthly minimum payment. So we're already on the next slide. So some of the pros, as I mentioned, it may lower your monthly payments and your interest rates. It simplifies the repayment by combining multiple accounts into making one monthly payment. Some of the cons, there may be lesser savings and longer commitment than some other options. I just mentioned you must permanently close all the accounts that are enrolled into this plan. If you miss a payment, the program can be cancelled. And what you really want to do is you want to avoid credit counseling agencies that have bad customer reviews. Don't accept the first DMP offer you receive. And you want to kind of shop around a little bit. Typically with these debt management plans, there may be like an enrollment fee, and then a monthly administrative fee. So you just again want to check out all of these agencies. And again, balances the organization to go with to look at these debt management plans. Next slide, please. Thank you, Howard. So another strategy we like to talk about is debt settlement. Just in terms of what I said earlier about, you know, just, you know, finding a hardship plan is very similar. So I'll just hold and have you look at the slide here. And basically it's one of those situations where if the debt is out of control and such, then you just want this cleared. It's really about debt settlement. It's really about just reaching out to the credit card companies, to whoever the debt collector is, and negotiating, making a deal to basically say, well, how I always like to scale is I have a conversation with my clients. Debt settlement is basically a scaled up loan. Just in terms of loaning between two acquaintances, two friends, the situation where if you can't pay your friend off, you ask friend, hey, what's it going to take right now to settle this debt and for us to be on good term? Very similar to what a debt settlement conversation would have. So the debt amount negotiated varies. And again, just typically we've seen basically 25% to 60% negotiated of the final balance as a resolution in terms of what a debt collector will take in order to clear it out of your credit port and for you to move on. So definitely this is a situation where you must get a deal in writing and make your payments on time. Typically situations like this, it's one lump sum, one shot, one deal and you're done. There may be instances of a payment plan, whatever the situation is, have it in writing. So the terms are agreeable and just you have accountability and follow up if need be. You may only come taxes on the debt that's forgiven. It's kind of like the term of just increased income and such and all if you will just addition by subtraction would be an analogy that I would use. Now, if you are delinquent, you know, after all is said and done and you're delinquent on your payments, you may be held liable. They may sue you for the full amount owed. It's one of those situations where it's a he negotiated in good faith and they've negotiated good faith to take this reduced debt. But if you're still going to go some or not make payments, it's like all bets are off. And so they're going to come at you for the entire amount. So some covered debts, as you can see, secured or unsecured loans such as credit card, except in federal student loans, secured loans, if it's already if the collateral has been repossessed already, such as like vehicle property, etc. Another requirement is going to be that the accounts must be delinquent to be ordered to have the conversation of being, you know, just to have the debt settlement conversation. And in terms of a situation of a secured loan like an auction or proper, you know, just property or vehicle, the item must be sold off on auction, etc. Whatever the proceeds from that minus the debt, you know, just the gap, if you will, in terms of the balance that would be negotiated with a debt settlement situation. Now, post content avoids on debt settlement, as you can see, the savings is very high. I know I first lied said 25 to 60% before the 75%. It's a situation where you'll have to have a conversation with them and negotiate it. The true form of your mileage may vary and its results are on an individual basis. Now, the cons of it is definitely being delinquent. It may hurt your credit. It will hurt your credit because of the just the late payments and such. And it'll cost some of the accounts to be closed. I mean, there's also a mental facet as well too. I mean, this, you know, dealing negotiations, whether it's a separation in employment, a separation between couples and such, just whatever separation process, just think of just the stress and the pain that's out there and stuff. It can be mentally draining. And definitely, you know, just it requires just legwork to reach out to a collector. Sometimes it means all done over the phone as opposed to in person. So there's definitely a lot of stressors in place, especially when there's the unknown. And again, we owe taxes on the forgiven debt amount. Again, it could be a conversation of well, the addition by subtraction, you gained income by, you know, just doing the debt settlement, they're going to get taxed on that. But the one thing to avoid here is working with debt settlement companies that charge high fees. So Howard's point earlier, in terms of just don't look for those situations, you know, where, you know, just they put some sort of predatory, it may seem, you know, just oh, part of the process, a fee or something of that nature and all, but it could, you know, just really under the radar be predatory. So that's one of those where definitely seek somebody, you know, seek a professional to be able to get clarity on some of these terms and just to be able to proceed with caution if the power. Yeah, I just wanted to also add a couple of things about the debt settlement before we talk about chapter seven bankruptcy. So typically there's two ways that potentially someone could settle an account. You can look for an agency like a debt settlement company, or it's something that a lot of people can do on their own. I think what you want to be really careful about is Roger had mentioned debt settlement companies typically are going to charge a high fee for them to assist clients and there's no guarantee that they're going to be able to settle accounts. This may be, you know, a better option for someone, for example, who is already delinquent on their accounts or who have accounts and collections. But the way the debt settlement company works, you also have to be aware is you pay the debt settlement company a monthly payment, they typically put that money aside into a fund. And then once they have enough money to settle an account, they will then settle with, you know, one of the creditors that you may have them assisting you with. So it's definitely not a good option for someone at all who is actually current on their accounts, or maybe not that past due, because they may be able to bring the accounts current, but they may be able to save themselves, you know, quite a bit of money on that. But then also a lot of my clients I've had, if they have accounts and collections, they may be able to negotiate directly with that creditor themselves, not having to obviously pay anything versus, you know, paying a debt settlement company. So again, there is a big difference between a debt settlement company and a debt management plan. But again, you know, debt settlement is typically for accounts that are already in collections or severely past due. So I just wanted to add that in. So one of the other strategies regarding debt, and this really should be like a final option that someone should look at, is a Chapter 7 bankruptcy. And again, I'm not here, we're not here to provide any sort of legal advice. I just want to basically give an overview of what a Chapter 7 bankruptcy is. So with a Chapter 7 bankruptcy, it potentially would permanently eliminate all unsecured consumer debts, but there are some exceptions. Student loans, child support, IRS debts, those are typically debts that are not eligible to be eliminated through at least a Chapter 7. It may be possible through a different type of bankruptcy. Student loans can potentially be eliminated through a Chapter 7 bankruptcy. It's not impossible, but it is very difficult because you do have to show an extreme hardship. You would want to consult with a local bankruptcy attorney to first check if you qualify and discuss what the potential outcome is going to be. So you would typically hire a lawyer to guide you through the legal process. Again, it is something that a normal person could go and file the paperwork on their own, but it can be fairly complicated. So it is not something that I personally would recommend. With the Chapter 7 bankruptcy, the client would meet with a court trustee. It's typically for about 45 minutes to answer some questions about your financial situation. And about 99% of bankruptcies, Chapter 7s, are discharged or actually completed. But you also have to be aware is this is a petition that goes to a judge in the court. So they're going to look over your financial records, and if they typically determine that you do have funds potentially left over, then you may not be eligible for a Chapter 7 bankruptcy. You may have to look at a Chapter 13 bankruptcy, which is a repayment plan that you would have to pay back a certain amount of money for a period of up to five years. What type of debts are typically covered? All unsecured consumer debt, again, except for student loans. Again, as I mentioned earlier, it's not impossible. It is potentially possible. Other requirements, you are going to have to meet certain eligibility requirements in your state. Again, as I mentioned, there's income, home equity, because the other thing is, they do allow typically clients to have a certain amount of assets, maybe that may be exempt, that they would be able to hold on to, because sometimes they could potentially require someone to sell assets that they may have through a Chapter 7 bankruptcy. So again, you would definitely want to get legal advice regarding that. And with the Chapter 7 bankruptcy, it is only available once every eight years. So definitely you want to keep that in mind as well. Next slide, please. So what are some of the pros of a Chapter 7 bankruptcy? Highest potential savings, predictable process. It's going to stop all collection efforts, including lawsuits and garnishments. So I've also seen clients who are in foreclosure as well with their homes and their loans that they may use the Chapter 7 bankruptcy as a possible remedy. In addition, some of the cons, it can cause significant credit damage. So that's one of the things that I have seen on people's credit reports, filing bankruptcy with a Chapter 7. From the date of the filing, it could stay on their credit report for up to 10 years. So you want to keep that in mind. That's why I always tell clients it should be your last resort, looking at bankruptcy. It also could make it almost impossible to get a home loan for about 24 to 36 months. And the bankruptcy is publicly recorded in the court documents. And again, I just mentioned you can only file once every eight years. And also I mentioned that you potentially may have to sell assets. What you want to avoid, you want to avoid waiting to talk to a bankruptcy attorney, I would recommend consulting with one early so you have a realistic understanding of what this option is. Really avoid working with an inexperienced or inintentive disrespectful bankruptcy attorney. And also be careful about gifting assets or paying off specific debts in the two years before filing bankruptcy. And again, I'm not providing any legal advice, but they're going to evaluate a lot of things when they're looking at potentially, are you going to be eligible? I have seen, and again, I'm just giving based on my experience, clients who have taken a lot of cash advances, let's say on their credit cards, within a short period of time. And then they look at potentially final bankruptcy. And that typically in my experience is not going to work. If someone has recently, for example, taken cash advances. So that's why the court is going to evaluate all of these things when determining if you qualify. And if so, what debts may or may not be able to be included in the chapter seven bankruptcy. Thank you, Howard. So now that you've seen some of the strategies we have in place, just these are all suggestions. Definitely, there's more out there, but these are ones that we wanted to lock in on. It's time to put your plan in motion. I mean, definitely just choose the best one that's going to really fit your needs, your, you know, just your financial needs, your mental needs, etc. and such. You know, find a plan, stick with it, and just really see it through. Definitely consult relevant people, you know, just bankruptcy attorneys, you know, just legal advice, financial planners, etc., and such. And really just get their professional guidance on how to navigate through these. And, you know, with all said and done, find your support system as well too, your internal support system, friends, families, colleagues, and stuff. Because I mean, this journey should not be done alone. You should have people along the way. I mean, I always have the conversation of finances is a very sensitive and painful topic, you know, culturally, just socially and such, to be able to power through and to be able to find that support system within you. You'll be surprised how many people will have empathy and just to really show you along your way in terms of, hey, you're not alone, you got your back. And as you execute your plan and set it in motion, check your progress. Like I said earlier, make those adjustments as needed. I mean, are you making progress? Are you on track? Do you have to make, you know, just the changes in terms of mentally? Are you just really capable of getting this done? And as you can see here, different expectations and such, maybe some ways to react, either to continue with the plan, modify it or abandon it and start from scratch. So definitely life does happen, life does change. And I think the reality is, is that no two individual financial journeys are going to be the same. Everybody's going to have a unique path. And definitely you should treat it as such in terms of just because it worked for so and so it doesn't mean it's going to work for you. And definitely expose yourself and really have that broad support system to be able to help you on your way. So as we wrap up our presentation, to reiterate what Andrea said earlier, our smart money coaching program is a free service that's eligible to anyone living, working and or receiving services like public benefits in the city and county of San Francisco. Everything is free and confidential. Any information that we ask of you is for the sole purpose of the session and information will not be divulged to third parties. You can meet with a coach at any point in time as much as you need and as little as you need. The kind of culture that we really try to create with our clients is the road goes both ways. So it's not us coaches telling potential clients, Hey, do this, this, this and this. Definitely want feedback, interaction and engagement because honestly, I mean, just like in relationships in life, it only works when both people are engaged, invested and just really ready to really just take on the challenge together. All of us smart money coaches have been certified by the National Association of Credit Counselors. And it's a stringent process that we have to be certified every two years to make sure that we're up and focused on the latest trends. Like I said, I think the culture that we really try to create is a very conversational, the safe space for our clients to be able to meet. So in my personal experience, I know a lot of clients when they do open up to me and they say, well, you know, I should do this, I should do that. If you will coming an approach of I know, I know, or maybe the feeling of shame, I really just try to respond just really with a lot of empathy and like, you know, just, you know, just to really be compassionate because everybody has their own journey. And we're there to really, you know, just somebody once said, it's not a matter of really just I think Howard, you know, just Howard's bio basically said, you know, just we really do not worry about what you did in the past. It's really a matter of what we do from here. And it's time forward moving forward. And I think we do that by actively listening. You know, we put the smartphones down, you know, we're just really at attention when we talk to you, we're really locked in with conversations. And we don't really have a jet and even though there may be a level of we kind of have an idea what we want to do, we don't take that a priority in terms of Oh, I want to really listen to you but respond, we're here to really fully listen and to really just be there, be that support system for you as a part of your journey. And if you'd like to take the next steps, you can feel free, I'll hold this screen right here as you look, you can call the hotline at 877-256-0073 you'll get one of us on the phone to schedule an appointment. You can email our manager or you can email SMC manager at balance pro.org. If you'd like to have an email response, typically our sessions are over the phone. And just conversational such as this, however, there may be instances where you will want to face to face meeting the SMC manager at balance pro.org email address can set you up with an in-person meeting if necessary. And if you'd like to know more about us, the link below at sfgov.org slash ov slash meet financial coach will be able to give you a bio and all of us. So I as I wrap up here and hand it over back to Andrea, I want to thank you for your time. And I know we have a little bit of time left for Q&A. And I will mute and Andrea, if you could take it from here. Thank you. Thanks so much, Roger. And thank you all for joining us today. I know that there are some questions in the chat. So I'm going to go ahead and read some of those in the last couple of minutes that we have. It looks like someone is looking for advice on debt settlement with attorney fees from divorce. They're not delinquent. They're just overwhelmed by the balance. And so do you have any suggestions or advice for them? I mean, I guess I can go ahead and try to answer that. So again, as I think we mentioned earlier, you know, looking at a chapter seven bankruptcy really should be a last resort. But I think it's very important as we discussed that it's something you need to talk to an attorney about. The other thing that you have to be aware of is here in California, since we are a community property state, any debts incurred by one spouse is debts of the other during the marriage. So that's something you want to be aware of. I've had some clients where they weren't aware that their spouse had taken out these other credit cards and racked up, you know, a whole bunch of debt. So again, the best advice we can give you is to consult with an attorney. But again, there are some, you know, things that you need to be made aware of. So hopefully that answers the question. If you'd like, Andrea, I can read a couple of these other questions quickly that I have in front of me. Someone asked if it was better to use a debit card or a credit card. There is a difference, obviously with a debit card, it's automatically taking money directly from your checking account. So that way, typically, you know, you have, you know, the money, as opposed to a credit card, having a credit card is very important because you want to have credit history. So for someone who doesn't have a credit card, getting a credit card and being able to show that you're making on-time monthly payments is going to help your credit so that that way in the future, having good credit could help you to get other types of loans or things of that nature. For those who are looking to build their credit, let's say you don't have credit or you're looking to improve your credit score, I think the best thing to look at is a secured credit card. And that's where you make a deposit at a bank or a financial institution. They give you a credit line equal to or less than that deposit. You use it like a regular credit card. So you would charge something small, pay it off within the billing cycle. And that's really the best way I've seen for clients to be able to work with establishing or building their credit with a secured credit card. Andrea, did you have any other, a few other questions that you wanted us to answer? I think those were the main ones that I saw in this cut as well. So I think, I think you've got your basis covered here. So I know we have a hard stop at one. So I just wanted to thank everyone again for their participation. And thank you for joining us. And thank you, Roger and Howard for that great presentation. We hope to see you all soon in a smart money coaching session. And yeah, thanks so much again. Bye everyone.