 The Federal High Court in Abuja sacked the speaker of the Cross River State House of Assembly, Etang Williams, and 17 of his colleagues over the defection from the People's Democratic Party to the All-Pregressive Congress. Two members of the House of Representatives from the state, Michael Etabba and Lego Hidalgo, were also sacked by the courts. The judge Tywall Tywall, while delivering judgment on a suit instituted by the People's Democratic Party to challenge the lawmakers defection, dismissed all preliminary objections raised by the sacked lawmakers. He noted that the lawmakers ditched the party even when there was no justification for their action. While joining us to discuss this is James Ibo, a legal practitioner and Jonathan Abang, a journalist in Cross River State. Thank you very much gentlemen for joining us. Thank you for having me. Great. I'm going to start with you James. Let's look at the legality of these defections. This is something that a lot of people have been debating on. Let's start with the airborne state situation. As soon as the airborne state case was announced, the state High Court also issued their own. They gave a judgment countering the one that the Federal High Court had given. But then of course the people are also debating on that legality because as it is, the PDP in a Boeing state is still asking INEC to issue a certificate of return to the People's Democratic Party's nominee for governor. So let's start with that and then we bring it down to what's happening in Cross River. Yes. What happened on the case of a Boeing state governor and the later judgment by the State High Court is actually very sad and unfortunate and clearly shows that we still have a lot of work to do with that judiciary because the both the State High Court and the Federal High Court are also co-dignite jurisdiction. They are on the same level. They are on the same pedestal. So it is sad that on same issues, same parties, these cases were going on simultaneously. I don't know what really happened. A station where immediately the Federal High Court of Boudge gave judgment, the State High Court, which obviously, given the circumstance and from my experience, seems to be a judgment in flint. I think NJC and the Najam bar station has a lot of work to do to ensure that corrupt judges do not. In fact, these days at the Federal High Court, when you're filing any suit, you will have to depose on a feedback that there's no other suit and you're not going to duplicate suits. So obviously what happened in a Boeing State High Court is a misnomer and NJC should metal the appropriate sanctions on the offending judge. He's unfortunate, but obviously I think the governor has jettisoned that judgment has gone ahead, which is the right thing to do, to appeal the Federal High Court judgment. And whether or not it will succeed, the matter is up to this. I will not want to comment on it, but I think it's a good thing. The Supreme Court, the Court of Appeal will have to offend his previous judgment or distinguish it and most likely the matters will get up to Supreme Court. Now a lot of people have applauded, of course, just as you said, the courts for this judgment because it's now a precedence for many other cases to come. I mean, as you know, a lot of people started pointing at Cross River to be the next point of call for the People's Democratic Party and that didn't take long before we saw these 18 lawmakers, if not 17 lawmakers, you know, struck off by the Court. Now let's also look at what happens to those men. Now we know that those members had defected with the governor to the all-progressive Congress, even though they had been elected on the platform of the People's Democratic Party. So the question is, what happens to these men? Yeah, that is, sorry, I missed you there shortly. Please, the question again. Yeah, well, we're looking at the members of the House of Assembly and, of course, the two members of the National Assembly who've also been sacked by the Court. And one is wondering what would be the fate of this men. Are they not allowed to seat anymore in the House because that means that they have been stripped of that vote that was given to them on the platform of the People's Democratic Party. So what is the next line of action legally? Yes, of course, this is a vacant and they cannot participate in any proceedings in the Crossover State House of Assembly. That is the law as of today. And notwithstanding the fact that they have appealed the judgment, there is no motion for stay as we speak. I'm aware they have appealed the judgment and the law is that we have seven members of the Crossover State House of Assembly today in Crossover State. And I saw videos from Crossover Watch showing that the police have barricaded the place, barricaded the place. I don't know why. I don't know who gave that instructions. But I think the seven members still have to do the business of legislation. I suspect that the governor may have given the instructions, maybe afraid that maybe he may be impeached or something. I don't think the seven lawmakers have the capacity to impeach the governor. That is not the law. The Supreme Court made that very clear in the case of Dariye. What if you, for you to impeach a governor you need to tell majority and to tell majority would be the number of House of Assembly, as envisaged by the constitution, which is a maximum of 40 and a minimum of 24. In Crossover State we have 25 members of the House of Assembly. If for the operation of law, which is the court judgment 18 seats are vacant, then we have to replace those 18 seats because seven people cannot determine the fate of a governor when allegations of corruption or impeachment has to. So there's nothing the governor should be afraid of by locking up the House of Assembly. There are other things that the seven members by law can still do. So there's no reason, there's no justification whatsoever why the seven members of Crossover State House of Assembly with their valiant mandate should be locked out. I'm aware they are joined to today to consider very important bills to my knowledge, but unfortunately they were not able to sit today and may not be able to sit because of the cases. Okay, James, we lost for a second there, but let's quickly go to Jonathan. Jonathan, you obviously have been reporting on this issue. Give us a fair idea of what transpired today at the House of Assembly. Were you personally there and what reports were you getting? Were you able to speak to any of the lawmakers who were shut out of the complex? Jonathan, can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you of course. I personally drove by a couple of times to see what had happened and I can tell you that as early as 6am at the first set of people who went to the House of Assembly, were a group of people, probably Nigerians, I don't know if they are Nigerians or not, but they were alleged to be apologists of the all-progressive congress that has not been verified up till this moment. This went to the gates and then the police came in a few minutes later and the first people who responded were policemen from the state command of the Niger police force at Diamond Hill, which is less than 800 metres away, not 800 kilometres, but 800 metres. That's less than a kilometre away from the entrance of the what do you call it, the cross-bath in the House of Assembly complex. As at about 3pm this evening when I passed the last, there were no fewer than 11 police trucks stationed within 300 metres of the entrance to the cross-bath in the House of Assembly, including the Amor personal career, that's the APC, belonging to the Mopol 11 squadron of the Nigerian police force, which is in Calabar, produced by Propos. Now what I got to learn initially was that they were fears that the seven remaining House of Assembly members, who are members of the People's Democratic Party, would have gathered and then probably moved a motion for the impeachment of the governor, but of course that's left on the realm of law, which James Cibor Esquire had earlier explained of course. But however, what I saw when I drove past a couple of times, especially in the morning, was that a main personnel of the Niger police force attached to Operation Puff Order, the anti-cultism and kidnapping sport in Calabar, the Dragon Base, the control room, the Atapat division, the State Housing Division, and from the State CIG, we're all stationed, either stationed a couple of metres to the entrance of the cross-bath State House of Assembly, which is located at the rear entrance of the Udo Kaha Jacob S1, that's the Uji S1 sports stadium, and next to the Nigerian Navy ship Victory, as well as a couple of metres away from the entrance to the Governor's Lodge, the Deputy Governor's Lodge, and the Lodge of the Chief Judge of the High Court of Cross-Bath State, as well as the museum in Calabar. These were all locked out and no one could assess the cross-bath State House of Assembly complex, including civil and public servants who are working at the cross-bath State House of Assembly complex. But however, it was interesting to note that the Commissioner for Sustainable Development Goals, by name Oliver Orok, was there discussing with civil servants, as well as police officers. He left about an hour later, at about 10 a.m. He came in about 9 a.m. and left about 10 a.m. after discussing with them, but the police, as about three p.m., when I passed the last, they were still stationed there. And when I called a colleague of mine, as well as sources, in the cross-bath State Command of the Niger Police, it told me that, as at 5.30 p.m., when last I spoke with them, they were still stationed at the cross-bath State House of Assembly complex. And according to the Commissioner of Police, when we spoke with him, he said the deployment of police officers was to prevent a breakdown of law and order based on the judgment order from Justice Taiwu Taiwu of the Abuja Division of the Federal High Court, which sat 18 state lawmakers, as 18 members of the cross-bath State House of Assembly, and two members of the Federal House of Representatives from cross-bath. Well, I mean, the APC State Chairman, we all know, Afossians Ogha Eba had said that there was no cause for alarm, but the picture that you've painted to me seems more alarmist, as opposed to what he has said, because quoting him, he had said that the judgment against our lawmakers, that's the lawmakers in cross-bath states, this is me quoting Afossians Ogha Eba, is nothing to worry about. We trust that the appellate court will do justice as we file our appeal. The party's leadership therefore has urged the APCs and their members to stay calm and not be distracted. But then you're telling me that civil servants were unable to assess their offices. You're telling me that lawmakers who have not been sacked by the courts were unable to also do their daily duties. And the chairman of the party is saying that there is no cause for alarm. Where do we see this going? Because if this is what's happened all through today and you're saying it's at 5 p.m. today, the police are still stationed there. What do you think that they're planning to do? Because if these lawmakers are unable to do their daily job, it means that they'll also be as redundant as the men who've been sacked. So what happens next? Mary Ann, you are entirely correct when you say that the seven lawmakers left actually don't act as those who have been sacked. Now I would love, maybe James will explain to us better what forms a quorum, out of 25 members, if seven members will form a quorum to even sit to go about the daily legislative business. Because from the conversations I've had with different lawyers, of course, is that, well, these seven are what is left of the cross-vastate House of Assembly right now. I have seen documents which suggest that the cross-vastate, you know, those who were sacked, the 18 were sacked, including the two federal House of Congress members have gone to file a notice of appeal. What I am not aware of is whether they have filed a state of execution order. But of course, you and I know that filing a state of execution order doesn't end there. It has to be listed in the cost list of the cost list of the cost and of the cost order. And then that will go on as well if we decide it. However, what I insist and I say clearly is that the seven members who were not sacked, the civil servants and the public servants, were not allowed entry. So as it stands for 24, the entire of the work load today, no one who is working in the cross-vastate House of Assembly had access to the cross-vastate House of Assembly. And not just the cross-vastate House of Assembly, there are two government House lodges, which need for you to assess them. The Solomonulaw Unor Lodge and one other lodge, I can recall the name now, you have to assess them through the main entrance of the cross-vastate House of Assembly. So staff of the cross-vastate government will work in these lodges, could not even assess those places because that is the main entrance. And of course, what that means is that at the end of the month, if these people receive salaries, they are going to receive salaries, including for today, which they did not work for. That is what it is, Maria. And it's crazy. I know in Nigeria, we don't talk about man hours. We pay, basically, minimum wage or whatever it is at the end of the month. We don't pay base on hours. But if they were to pay base on hours, that means some people would have been denied entry into their workplace, people who are willing to work, but were not allowed into their workplace. And that would, in my mind, would have led to some sort of class action suit against the government for allowing their agents and previous to stop them from getting to their place of work to work for the hours that they're making. And who's going to file that suit? Well, unfortunately, like I said, in Nigeria, we don't calculate man hours. Exactly. My question didn't need an answer, but that's fine. I'm going to go back to Mr Ibo. Mr Ibo, it looks like we're off to a very good start in the run-up to 2023. One would have thought it would be a very less dramatic lead up to the 2023 elections because just as Jonathan said, in Sena climes, whether you have a position in the helm of affairs or not, there has to be some drama. But across the state, a lot of people had said that, well, it's just going to be business as usual because of who's at the helm of affairs. But then it seems that it's going to be a lot of drama and there's a lot that needs to be seen. But coming back to the issue, what's the fate of these lawmakers who have not been able to assess the assembly grounds? What should be the next line of action? Do they even have a case in the first place? And I know that seven cannot form a quorum within any assembly, whether it be the lower house or the upper house. And so what do these people do in the interim with all of this security that's not letting them into their office? Again, does the governor have the power? I don't even want to say it's the governor who gave this order, but who gave the order that these policemen barricade the way to the assembly because this looks like a deliberate attempt to stop these men from working. And legally, what should be the next course of action, a line of action? Yes, thank you very much. I think we have a right to speculate if you're conscious of the activities of the cross-vastir politicians, especially the politicians in the cross-vastir's assembly. You understand why one can speculate that the government may have persuaded the Inspector General Police to lock out the seven members. The reason is clear. Immediately, the seven members refused to defect. The allowances were stopped. They've not been paid. Recently, they had a peaceful resolution of the cases they had in court. And the government the speaker promised to pay them. I understand that they've not been paid. So there is this fear that these seven members will try to pay back. The truth is, you cannot stop them from meeting. They can't form a quorum because as it stands now by operation of law, we have seven members of the House of Assembly. The only limitation is that there are certain actions they cannot take. One of those actions is impeaching the governor because the Supreme Court has given interpretation to what you need to impeach a governor. And that was in the case of Gesture Adarier in 2007, Supreme Court. So it is very clear. And really, the governor thinks the seven members can impeach him. It is not possible. It is not true. But they cannot or the Nigerian police force cannot stop them from meeting. They can't give them protection if they suspect that hoodlums who want to attack them, like Jonathan clearly pointed out, you cannot stop the business of the state because 18 members of the House of Assembly were sacked. So I think they have a cost of action. The seven members of the House of Assembly have a cost of action. And I wouldn't want if I have the opportunity of advising the governor or the inspector general of police, I wouldn't want them to to allow it to generate to that point because if they go to court, I can assure you that they will succeed. They were elected by their people to do the business of legislation in cross-eval state. You cannot stop them because 18 for their seemingly discretion were sacked. Okay. Interesting. Well, I want to say thank you to James Ebor. He's a legal practitioner. Jonathan Abang is a journalist. And both of them are from cross-eval state. Well, what continues to unfold in cross-eval state remains to be seen. Thank you very much, gentlemen, for being part of the conversation. And thank you for staying with us as we round off the show tonight. Nigerians are going to be telling us their thoughts as regards the third force and what 2023 holds for them. I am Mary Anna Cohn. It's been Plus Politics. I'll see you tomorrow as we talk for development. I didn't think any third party can conquer APC or PDP in this Nigeria. This century, I didn't know maybe in the future, but now to like 10 years to this time, it's okay because APC and PDP like I didn't know what really happened, but people like our mentality people for APC and PDP, we believe that they are the only person that can do it. But let's just try to another party. Maybe we can see the difference in this country. The issue is that before a third force takes up their job or takes out APC and PDP, it would have been maybe for next coming election, but not for now because for me they are not prepared yet, you understand. So before you think of what they would have built a structure, APC and PDP is taking over because they've already established a structure all over the countries and even at the local levels. The other grassroots structure is very important. I don't think so. You know, since they are the ruling party and you know Nigeria now, before you can kick away a ruling party, it's always a very serious something except if they would bring a good candidate from other parties, they can have chance, but assistance now, I don't think. It is possible if we can play one and be united and know the plan and the vision of this third party, then we will fight and make it possible.