 Hello everyone and welcome to today's episode of what the F is going on in Latin America and the Caribbean a weekly webinar from Code Pink's Latin America team Today my guest is journalist Ben Norton from the Grazo Thanks for having me Leonardo So I kind of wanted the bulk of the interview to focus on rain the responsive assistant to Nicaragua plan But for our audience who hasn't been following the country. Can you talk a bit about the attempted coup in the Nica Act of 2018? Absolutely. So the important thing to go to keep in mind with Nicaragua is that this is one of the only country and I say this I've been living actually here in Nicaragua for this year and and I was here last year as well on the anniversary of the revolution Nicaragua is is one of the few countries left in Latin America that has a socialist government and it's a democratically elected socialist government like in Venezuela and in the Discourse of the US government Nicaragua is part of the so-called Troika of tyranny John Bolton the former national security advisor used that language It has since been echoed by other members of the Trump administration Now why who are the three members of the Troika of tyranny? It's Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua the three remaining leftist governments in the region And in the case of Nicaragua this the government is the Sandinista government people might have heard That in 1979 there was a revolution against a us-backed dictatorship of samosa and the Revolutionaries who overthrew the right-wing dictatorship 20 years after a very similar revolution in Cuba Here in Nicaragua they they call themselves the Sandinistas And the Sandinista front of national liberation, which is the their political party is the democratically elected governing party in Nicaragua And there's a long history I don't have time to get into but they had the revolution in the 1979 and then there was a us terror war Through the contra death squads against the government in the 80s There was a blockade similar to venezuela And they they lost power through democratic elections in the 90s. There was a neoliberal era but then in 2006 The Sandinistas came back into power through elections And since then since 2006 the Sandinistas have continued to win all of the elections and govern the country under president Daniel Ortega And they have a you know a leftist political and economic model. They have free They free education. They have free health care and the health system here is absolutely incredible We need to keep in mind that Nicaragua is the second poorest country in latin the entire western hemisphere It's right after Haiti. So Nicaragua is very poor in terms of numbers But it's very rich in terms of social services. It's very rich in terms of government services that that provide again, um, basically free education and free health care and the health care is incredible because If you look at other countries in central america, which are more similar to nicaragua, which are quite poor countries There's nothing even remotely Similar to the model of free health care here in nicaragua The government has has invested a huge proportion of its of its budget in in health care So, you know, they've made a lot of strides in fighting illiteracy in vaccination programs and public health And of course the u.s. Government has seen nicaragua as this this Bastion that has an anti-imperialist foreign policy nicaragua strongly supports Venezuela and Cuba nicaragua is part of the alba alliance Nicaragua has a very activist foreign policy in supporting national liberation movements and anti-colonial movements It's very close to russia So the u.s. Has targeted nicaragua for many for decades to overthrow the government and install a more compliant puppet regime that will privatize the economy impose neoliberal policies and will vote in support of israel will will vote in against venezuela at the united nations etc and two years ago in 2018 There was a coup attempt and unfortunately a lot of people outside of nicaragua, especially in the u.s. including people on the left Many portrayed it as a as an attempted uprising as a revolution, which is insane because That these were i mean the protests are always mixed they have a variety of different groups But the main groups leading it were right-wing Neoliberal groups that were backed by the u.s. Government by the national endowment for democracy Which is an arm of the cia created by the ronald reagan administration in the 1980s And one of the co-founders said explicitly that the the national endowment for democracy the n.e.d Did in the 1980s what the cia had done covertly? 25 years before so and the n.e.d. Still does that work today out in the open the n.e.d. Funds opposition groups in venezuela and cuba and other countries So in nicaragua there was a very violent coup attempt and of course the police did kill some people i mean With any of these with as with venezuela with the guarimas the violent coup attempts there You know there is technically violence on both sides So then people will try to both sides the issue and say it's brutal repression by police what they ignore what they totally obfuscate on purpose is that that that violence returned by the security forces Is is it is either proportional or actually not not only proportional the the opposition violence is much worse So we see terror attacks. We saw of course in venezuela We saw them use bombings and such and in in nicaragua basically what they did is the same kind of model The the guarimba model venezuela was borrowed here and they built things called tranques Tranques were massive barricades to to block off traffic and to prevent people From being able to to operate normally and have a normal life in the country It really devastated the economy and it blocks the the transit of goods throughout central america for months This began in the spring in in in april of 2018 and went on for several months until july the anniversary of the revolution So in this time period the opposition they targeted sandanistas They burnt down sandanista houses and radio stations They would actually mark the houses of sandanistas, which is terrifying I I know friends who were attacked. They tortured sandanistas I interviewed a sandanista activist his father and his brother were murdered and not only were they murdered by the The the the golpistas the kumangers not only were they murdered Their bodies were set on fire after and then the golpistas threw their bodies the sandanista activists bodies in the garbage So, I mean just absolutely horror horrifying. I mean a kind of civil war scenario Where the right-wing opposition is trying to overthrow the government? They were unsuccessful because ultimately the opposition is very small in nicaragua And there is a very hardcore base of around two-thirds of the country 50 50 to 60 of the country that support the sandanistas and the opposition only has a support around 10 Maybe 15 percent. It's being generous poles can consistently show that the sandanistas have around 60 support And the opposition has between 10 15 percent So the opposition couldn't they couldn't succeed in overthrowing the government and by july 19th Which is the anniversary of the revolution the coup attempt had totally died out So of course as with venezuela after the 2014 and 2017 coup attempts the guarimbas The u.s. government turns toward its other form of warfare economic warfare sanctions So after the failed coup attempt here in nicaragua the u.s. Congress passed the nica act And we should keep in mind that the nica act which by the way is is a hilariously redundantly named Act because the a and nica act already stands for act. So it's like the the nick act act But anyway, the the nick act was already written by members of the right wing florida neoconservatives You know, these are the exile the right wing exiles from cuba venezuela nicaragua other countries who went to miami And they were already lobbying there even before the the coup attempt and they had this legislation that was prepared But the coup attempt and the media propaganda allowed them to push through this legislation Which put very brutal sanctions on nicaragua and of course the u.s. government frequently says Oh, well, they're targeted sanctions. I always say targeted sanctions on particular government officials But of course what they don't mention is that these sanctions prevent the nicaraguan government from having access to international finance So it's a kind of it's a defacto blockade that prevents nicaragua from accessing international financial institutions And then since the nica act was passed and I mentioned that unfortunately It was passed in the congress without any opposition And it was passed on a voice vote like some of these, you know, it wasn't an actual A vote on paper so that that helped helped them push it through but there was no opposition to it Which is very tragic considering that you know, there are some More left-wing members who speak up on issues like yemen But unfortunately when it comes to nicaragua and venezuela, there's no opposition And but anyway, the point is that after the nica act was passed The trump administration has continued to impose more and more sanctions And this this brings us to the lead up to the election in 2021 next year about a year from now And the trump administration, it's very clear And even if the biden somehow manages to win it's it's clear that either administration they're already planning on Another coup attempt in the upcoming year of 2021 and i'm sure we'll talk about that today Absolutely, so the latest news in this attempted regime changed by the trump administration in nicaragua Has to do with this rain plan responsive assistance in nicaragua You recently wrote an article about it. Can you explain to us what this plan is and what it entails? Absolutely, so Rai and this is just a latest regime change scheme And I should mention that this is really under the ages of the u.s agency for international development usaid Like I mentioned the national endowment for democracy the ned these groups are very similar They have origins at the end of the cold war and the u.s government realized that they could basically kind of outsource the cia Color revolution apparatus that it developed during the cold war And a lot of the work that the cia did then they could just do it openly in the name of democracy promotion Because it's basically serving the same role. So so usaid is similar This is a group that claims to be humanitarian It claims to be the humanitarian arm of the u.s government, but it's another cia cut out It works closely with the state department. It works closely with intelligence agencies and even more recently I reported at the gray zone on a a new USAid strategy document that talks about how they're talking about working Embedding with the military and embedding with special operations forces and helping with drone assassinations So this is the so-called humanitarian wing working with the military in venezuela last year In february during the coup attempt on the columbia border with venezuela USAid played a crucial role working hand in glove with the pentagon and the mike panpeo state department To try to overthrow the the government using aid so-called aid is a weapon a regime change weapon so It's more of the same And we should also keep in mind that the usaid strategy targeting nicaragua the USAid under trump. It's become even more explicitly this right-wing institution The current coordinator the de facto director of usaid is named john barça He is the son of cuban american Exiles who voluntarily left because of the revolution And they were of course very elite rich exiles and who resettled in miami and john barça who was born in the u.s He was never been to cuba, but he's he has that background and is a diehard anti-communist He hates cuba. He hates nicaragua. He hates venezuela He's the head of this so-called humanitarian wing of the u.s government So it's very clear what the priorities are but i should also mention that usaid has historically been linked to more democratic forces With with a capital d, right? They so it's not necessarily like this is just the trump administration if joe biden wins And becomes president these programs are going to continue because they continue under obama and with in the case of biden There will be even more neoconservatives who will be overseeing his his foreign policy so These are bipartisan policies, but anyway that all of that said The the strategy document was released. I have it here And you can find it at the graze on i published a report That there is a 93 page document that that is a strategy document for responsive assistance in nicaragua r a i n And there was a 14 page section of it that was that was published And why was it published? Well, I did some investigation And it turns out that on linked in You know openly and linked in democracy international, which is another it's an it's an extension of usaid It's an it's a regime change organ of the u.s government funded by the u.s state department And by the u.s congress ultimately the this group democracy international posted a job application on Linked in calling for someone who can be a senior level technical expert in democracy human rights and governance So what they're really looking for is they were looking for someone here inside managua the capital of nicaragua Who can be their point person a liaison who can help? coordinate the coup attempt the the regime change attempts here on the ground in venezuela and What happened is apparently I it seems pretty likely that someone in nicaragua who supports the san anistas Applied for this job and then was sent this 14 page document outlining the strategy and published it So they're in local media outlets. There was a big scandal and people were talking about it Now let's talk about what the document actually says I'm not going to summarize the whole thing people who are interested can look it up on the gray zone dot com gray with an a But what are what are the goals of this regime change scheme? Well, very clearly they say they want transition And in 14 pages they use the word transition 102 times so transition we want transition transition That's that's a nice word for regime change and they spell out three different scenarios for regime change Which would be hard regime change soft regime change and prolonged regime change So hard would be a military coup an overthrow of the government a soft would be Something similar to what happened in brazil where there's a parliamentary coup a political coup or The the government loses the elections in 2021 and then a prolonged prolonged regime change scenario is the coup attempt fails the san anistas Freely and fairly win the election coming up next year and then they they they continue the regime change attempt over the long term those those are the scenarios spelled out by the document and there's more there's more Details but now what's the goal ultimately of the u.s. Government because this isn't even just my opinion They state very explicitly why the u.s. Government wants to overthrow the san anista government here in nicaragua They say that one of the top quote mission goals Is and i'm quoting exactly from the document quote transition to a rules-based market economy And that's based on quote protection of private property rights Okay, so they want a neoliberal government that will overthrow the socialist economic policies that will privatize the economy That will privatize education and healthcare and then they also say what what what is their other goal? They're one of their other top so-called mission goals is quote rebuild institutions and quote reestablish and and dismantle parallel institutions And they specifically target the military and the police So what they mean by that is they want to quote reestablish The military and the police they want to create new military and new police forces That purge all of the nationalists and the san anista loyalists who support the san anista revolution Basically, this is a model This is modeled after the debathification program in iraq after the u.s. Government invaded iraq and overthrew the government They understood that there would be elements of the government They would be sympathetic and supportive of the old government who want to restore the bathist government So they had a policy of debathification Removing anyone who had been involved in the previous government anyone who had Nationalist sensibilities and then create a new technocratic regime of puppets who will be subservient to the u.s That's exactly what they want to repeat in nikaragua removing all the san anistas And not only that they say in the document. They want quote transitional justice measures That's code word for lawfare. This is a term that's become more prominent. We saw in bolivia where The u.s. Government and right wing oligarchs here in nikaragua in venezuela in bolivia in brazil they they used the language of justice and legal mechanisms to wage political warfare or lawfare, right We saw this with sergio sergio moro Who is the right wing justice minister very closely linked to the ci and fbi Who worked hand in glove with the u.s. Government and the lava jato operation in brazil to overthrow the workers party government So we're seeing a hybrid war There's the lawfare element the economic warfare element with sanctions and the the political warfare through an attempted coup and They spell it out very clearly in this document Yeah, I mean it's such to me. It's really kind of stunning how brazen they are about their attempts to regime change You've been going so far as to basically advertise on linkedin for someone to draw up these plans And and I think a couple days ago. We had uh, joe biden called daniel or tega president or tega a dictator So this is as you said a total of bipartisan consensus There's basically no opposition to attempted regime change in nikaragua or venezuela or cuba In the u.s. Political establishment and for nikaragua I mean we have to like mention that under president or tega if you talked about it a bit But nikaragua has cut poverty in half. They've nearly eliminated the literacy. They've seen a huge increase in Women holding public offices that they've addressed the gender pay gap And the country has become much more economically equal now than it was prior to the sunday's that's coming back into power You know, and you also mentioned why the u.s. wants regime change because basically because nikaragua is one of three socialist governments Can you talk a little bit more? I mean this has been throughout what you've been saying You've been drawing some of these parallels between What the u.s. Is doing in but nikaragua venezuela and and bolivia as well Absolutely, so what's interesting is that you mentioned a really important point the role of women in nikaragua The sunday's just have very highly emphasized the role of women in society And that also models what the chavistas have done in venezuela The vice president delcio rorygues in in venezuela is a woman and the vice president here in in nikaragua rosaria morillo is also a feminist and strongly supportive of women's rights and she has really prioritized and the sunday's to front has prioritized Women's representation. In fact, nikaragua is in the top five countries in the entire world For representation of women in government It's it's there. There's a law saying that half of government positions have to be filled by women And they take it very seriously The lifeblood of the san anista front is what's called who in the san anista the the san anista youth And the the juventud san anista is largely women if you go to a lot of their events They really emphasize the role of women in society. They're very empowered and it's it's very interesting because In the right wing governments in latin america They you don't in any way see that kind of representation But you will see That that some of these forces will try to demonize nikaragua and venezuela also because You know, unfortunately they they have very restrictive abortion laws And they'll use that just that one particular aspect of society to try to portray nikaragua and venezuela as anti-woman because For a variety of complex historical and cultural reasons. These are pretty religious catholic and christian societies and Abortion is not a popular policy the vast majority of people don't support abortion including the working class base Of the san anistas and the chavistas So yes, it's true that nikaragua has very strict anti-abortion laws But that's only one small part of laws concerning women But you'll hear a lot of feminists in the us. You'll hear even right wing forces and other parts of latin america Will criticize nikaragua for that So we need to keep in mind the larger picture of women's representation in nikaragua, which is absolutely impressive You also mentioned poverty. They've the government has made poverty Reduction a major priority and nikaragua is the fourth most equal country in latin america Which people might say well, you know fourth is not that high But consider again nikaragua is the second poorest country in the western hemisphere The only country poorer than it is hady and we've seen the horrific, you know neocolonial oppression of hady So the fact that nikaragua has been able to accomplish that with very few resources is incredible And and part and parcel of the poverty reduction, which is extremely important Is the nikaraguan government's emphasis on the camp campesino movement working with the peasants working with the farmers The government has really heavily prioritized that in the neoliberal era. There was more privatization of land There there were you know, and especially before the revolution in 79 in the samosa dictatorship era There were many elite not many there was a small handful of elite families Who controlled the vast majority of the land in the country? Especially up in in the in the coffee areas and the in the mountainous areas like hinotega and matagalpa And you also had elites who who were from european descent Who were dominating the land there and the government has really prioritized giving land back to peasants and in fact nikaragua is has the second highest rate of state ownership of Of capital and land in latin america after cuba It's slightly over 50 of the capital and land in nikaragua is publicly owned So they've really prior to prioritize that it's very impressive what they've been able to accomplish And i and i'll have to say that you know, i've been to on duras last year with my colleagues in the graves and we went to on duras Which is neighboring in central america. It's neighboring nikaragua and the the comparison is night and day Honduras is absolutely It's plagued by violence It had it actually had the highest murder rate in the world after a us backed coup in 2009 For several years it had the highest murder rate a great victory of the us coup regime And the poverty is just so It's so striking So the fact that you have a government that cares for for poor people is incredible And then i mentioned earlier we can't we can't underestimate the importance of nikaragua's foreign policy I will say that nikaragua's relations with china for a variety of historical reasons are very complex But excluding that that contradiction that historical complexity there nikaragua is a strong voice on the international stage For anti imperialist movements And national liberation movements supporting the sovereignty of foreign countries that are under siege nikaragua has joined with venezuela and cuba and russia and china and other countries In opposing sanctions and economic warfare and calling for new forms of multilateral institutions and new economic relations So and i mentioned that the alba alliance Nikaragua is still part of the alba alliance created by ugo chavez in venezuela And we can't underestimate how much the u.s. government even above other Priorities one of its top priorities Is destroying these other economic alliances that were developed and the alba alliance is Unfortunately, it's much weaker now than it was 10 years ago But nikaragua still remains a member and is still committed to To inter south integration south south integration trying to work with other countries in latin america To integrate their economies instead of just subordinating their economy to the superpower in the united states Yeah, I think that's a really important point to bring up in terms of why the u.s. wants regime changes against cuba venezuela nikaragua And one of the reasons is of course as you mentioned that these three countries are leading the hemisphere and in countering us I'm any countering us imperialism denouncing it at every turn I'm also really glad you brought up the issue of feminism and how it's being used to kind of Undermine the ortega administration the ortega government because we saw something similar with environmentalism Happen with the the moralist government in bolivia so there's kind of this Attempt by the state department and by all these u.s. Imperial forces to present a sort of woke imperialism And to present regime change is something progressive when it's obviously everything, but Uh switching tax a little bit I'd want to talk a little bit about the pandemic a few months ago Nikaragua was in the corporate media spotlight over its corona virus response Despite the fact that it was doing and continues to do Significantly better than its neighbors. Can you tell us a bit about how nikaragua has responded to the pandemic? absolutely Nikaragua took a response that is the specific response needed for its Material conditions the the political conditions the historical conditions the cultural context And the economics specifically because we need to keep in mind again You know, I keep stressing this point not not as something against nikaragua But as a fact it's that nikaragua was a very poor country And it's really interesting to me that there's so much criticism Of nikaragua by the u.s. Left by the canadian european left and there's never There's never understanding of the fact that this is a very poor country that has been colonized for most of its history Until this on the nista revolution. It was essentially colonized by the u.s. Government It was controlled by the occupied by the u.s. Military for decades So we need to keep in mind that history because there's so many people on the left in the u.s Who who look toward nikaragua and also to venezuela, which is a richer country But still much poorer compared to the u.s That they look to these these relatively poor countries in the global south and blame them for all their perfection in their All their imperfections and not don't understand that the the real conditions that they're dealing with And the fact of the matter is that when it came to the pandemic Even though I don't want to downplay the economic harm that it did to the u.s. And the real economic issues that working class americans are going through What the u.s. Did cannot be repeated in a country like nikaragua and nikaragua Around 60 percent the estimates vary but More than half of the country works in the informal sector I've seen estimates as high as in the 70 percent tile range That means what does that mean that means that the majority of the population Doesn't get a paycheck the majority of the population doesn't have a bank account So yes, it's absolutely true that the the u.s. Policy has been horrific and not nearly enough a mere $1,200 check cannot most people cannot get by and one $1,200 check considering they've been in in quarantine for months But the the fact of the matter is that Even though that's not enough that's possible in the u.s. That's not possible in nikaragua and also mexico took a similar model It's not possible in mexico. These are countries where people The majority of people They live day by day With what they make so they and also I mentioned the economic model of nikaragua Over half of the economy of the of the gdp is in state control public publicly owned But also one of the things that the nikaragua government has really emphasized Is kind of small business Ownership right but but not in the way that people in the u.s. Think about it Rather because in the in nikaragua a lot of people they they're their own employers, right? They don't have bosses. They they cook food. They provide services. They make they make You know textiles. They make You know artisanal goods Things like that. They're taxi drivers The economy is is based on you know people mom and pop stores, right? It really is the majority of the economy So if you have that kind of an economy How are you supposed to survive a quarantine? And how are you supposed to give people money? How are you supposed to give people food? I mean, I guess you could physically deliver them food But you can't give them money if they don't have bank accounts So Nikaragua realized that it had to take a particular approach That sure it wasn't just free for all the idea that everything was a free for all is ridiculous most of Of the non-necessary parts of the economy shut down But they didn't have a total quarantine and the government provided you know masks and alcohol and things like that and everywhere you go you can find masks and alcohol And you see people everywhere you go wearing masks and things like that the government If you watch any tv channel the public tv channels constantly during the commercial breaks they're There's they actually gets kind of annoying. There's the same like three ads about coronavirus and they have like this song I mean so like they they they took it very seriously The idea that the government didn't have any measures is ridiculous propaganda But because the government didn't totally shut down the economy There was all this propaganda demonizing Nikaragua saying that they're killing their own people etc But what's incredible is as you mentioned leo is that Even if okay, the opposition is claiming that the government has been downplaying the number of deaths We don't have any evidence of that, but let's say we accept that claim All right, even if you accept the own claims of the opposition for the actual supposed number of deaths It's still significantly lower per capita than the number of deaths in the u.s And the number of deaths in brazil And of course they they all look to to bolso narrow and trump as their heroes So it's also lower than in other parts of latin america like ecuador You know, it's easy to look toward the u.s Because the u.s has the worst case in the world and brazil has the second worst case in the world Ecuador has also been a total disaster And if you look at toward ecuador, it's much worse than nicaragua the answer the question is why is that? it's because in nicaragua there is a massive public investment in the health sector period that is the most important factor That is also the most important factor in the u.s Why so many people have died? And look, I need to be honest. I I don't think we should just blame trump Even if even if hillary clinton had been president I think the u.s would still clearly be the world the leader of the world in deaths for coronavirus And maybe it would be a little better But it's it is because the public health that there is no public health the public health sectors It's an oxymoron in the u.s Whereas in nicaragua the government spends Upward, I think of 15 to 20 percent of its entire budget just on the health sector And if you if you factor in other things like education The government spends over half of its entire budget on social services for people That is why the government has been able to deal so well with the crisis And every country has been affected by it, but and of course They're having people who have died which is tragic but Looking at the situation here. I've been living here I I've been living through the coronavirus situation. It hasn't been that bad honestly And there was a balance. I think it was a pretty fair balance between not having a quarantine But still having a functioning economy so people don't starve But also shutting down the unnecessary parts of the economy that that might endanger people's public health Yeah, and just for some context in terms of figures Nicaragua has less than 5,000 cases total 141 deaths as of September 7th And their deaths per million population are 21 compared to 583 for the united states and over 900 for bedou Which is one of the most Worst-hit countries in latin america Thank you And in response to those numbers people some people say that the government Hasn't because the government doesn't have the ability to do all of the comprehensive testing that it needs etc Sure, maybe maybe the figures are higher But again, even if those government even if the government figures are not quite accurate We even if you look at the figures of the opposition, which has a vested interest in exaggerating the figures Even their numbers are Significantly lower per capita than other figures in the u.s. brazil and ecuador. So once again I mean we have to look at the layers of propaganda and i'll just say that there's so much fake news So much propaganda targeting Nicaragua the media will will for for weeks just like with north korea for weeks The media will claim that daniel or tegas had died. They did that a few months ago They said that he died and that the government was hiding it and then he came out and gave a speech So people just really need to exercise critical thinking and be skeptical of what they see Because just as with venezuela, there's there's constant lies about nicaragua Absolutely and in that regard, I think the gray zone does a great job and telling people the truth about countries like nicaragua and venezuela Thank you again so much for being with us here with us today ven Thanks for having me leo and thanks to keep up all the great work You all are doing amazing work at codepink and we need more of you. Thank you