 Nigerian Diplomatic Missions Grappling With Debt Secretary to the Government of the Federation Boss Mustafa cries out and the polling units will take shine off rigging says a report. Well this is cross politics, I am Mary Anna Cohn. The Secretary to the Government of the Federation Boss Mustafa raised concerns over growing indebtedness faced by Nigerian Diplomatic Missions all over the world. Mr Mustafa made this known in a boujard during an inauguration of the Presidential Committee on the review of number and strategy for resourcing Nigeria's diplomatic missions worldwide. The committee saddled with the mandate of reviewing all previous reports on the establishment of foreign missions and measures taken to effectively and economically manage Nigeria's mission and also to identify challenges facing those missions and make appropriate recommendations on the sustainability. He stated this that the lingering indebtedness being faced by the foreign missions has affected the nation's integrity negatively. Well joining us to discuss and break this down is Eugene Abels, he is the Executive Director of the Extra Step Initiative and Catch on the Nigerian Public Affairs Analyst. Gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. Great. Thank you for having me. Let me start with you Eugene. This is not the first time that this concern has been raised. A few, I think in 2020, the same issue was being raised where the Foreign Secretary, Mr Jaffer Nyeema, talked about the fact that lack of funding is somewhat keeling foreign diplomatic offices across the country and my question is, could this also affect the way that we're being viewed by the world at large? Yes, for you to choose, this foreign policy is a major component of how a nation lives because you need to have a proper perspective on how you want the world to deal with you. And in doing this, nations sit down and make a strategic appraisal on the people they want to deal with. Those they want closer, establish missions in those places. It is not done based on the initial drama of independence, which a lot of countries are getting independence in the 60s, went and did. After that, when the recession happened after the windfall of 1973, a lot of nations had to wind down missions which they had no business keeping. But the Nigerian case has become very pathetic because we have said to you, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the diplomatic setting in Nigeria has been politicized. It is useful for compensation. So it is no longer as professional as it was supposed to be, and it used to be. So the issue of funding now begins to arise because there's a proliferation of embassies all over the world. And there's no clear cost strategy on how to fund them. And there's no clear cost strategy to fund them. There's no clear cost strategy on how to measure them because they're just political appointees who are there. And they started with the Third Republic. And once it went political, for political patronage, the things we're seeing today is not surprising. That most of the most expensive missions that we've had are mostly domiciled in Europe, Asia, and the Americas. And of course, Japan is also, you know, like literally top on that list. And you may mention of the fact that this has become something, some sort of a settling for the boys. But when we look at foreign policy, because you see for certain countries, their foreign policy is so properly spelt out that, you know, it makes you even want to come from that country. But in Nigeria's case, we've seen countries, you know, eject us from our embassies. We've seen all kinds of things happen to embassies in certain places. I think in DRC, we had an eviction happen for one of those embassies. And we also saw another in, I think, in the European country. And so I'm really asking, when we set up these missions, what exactly should be at the center of it? What I mean again is, why are we setting up these missions? What exactly is the end point at the end of the day? For example, if we have the U.S. in Nigeria, and we see all of the things that are happening through the U.S. mission in Nigeria, can we say same of Nigerian missions wherever they find themselves? There's supposed to be a foot in the door in those nations because we want to deepen relationships and also enable our citizens in those places to have better access, like a source of protection or better access for the things they're supposed to get back home. Then it's also, in a deep relationship, it makes it easy for issues of trade, for cooperation, for cultural cooperation and other aspects of nation building. But in the Nigerian case, there is no measurement. Most of those missions were created because they were looking for avenues where they could compensate. You might need to go back up to the beginning of the year 1999 and see the number of the progression of missions that occurred. If I ask you today what is the foreign policy direction of Nigeria, you don't know. If you had asked me in 1986, in 1982, I would tell you that our foreign policy direction was that we're not aligned and that we'll be African-centric and we'll drive the frontline movements for the independence of Zimbabwe and the rest of those nations. But today, nobody knows. Even if you speak with the diplomats, they don't know. This rots has been there. Fortunately, I had a stint in public service in the sense that while I was on the Amnesty program and had students all over the world, there was an embassy in Europe that didn't even have a phone number and there were people there earning salaries and allowances. So first of all, it tells you where we are as a nation when your budgeting process cannot provide funding for people whom you've employed to represent you and do a job for you. So I don't know where to put my hand on this. It's not a new thing. I saw the SGS comments that he said they're not becoming. I don't need to set up a committee to review what's happening. This is a baby of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. We need to push it back to them and allow them to do their jobs so that those who are not professional diplomats should be removed from the service. Let's allow professionals who have grown through the service, who have been trained for these jobs, to do their job. Then when we do that, we just downsize the number of missions we have. We don't need to have missions everywhere. You don't even have a foreign policy direction. Why are you all over the place and you're all over the place and you cannot afford what it takes to keep those places? It is amusing because when we had very little assimilation back in the 60s and the 70s and the 80s, you didn't hear these kinds of things. Today we're talking of billions of dollars or petro dollars and you're enabling to do basic things like planning, budgeting and funding. I can imagine. Let me come to you, Mr Anu Nuju. It's interesting because the reps, as we speak, the House of Representatives in August, asked that the foreign missions be probed on the amount of money that they spent outside the budget and this was about 13 billion dollars. Now on the one hand they're saying we cannot afford to fund these missions across the world but then the House of Representatives is saying the one that we've given to you, you're yet to be able to explain to us what you use these monies for. But again, Nuju said something that was very catching. He said that we don't have a foreign policy direction and if this has been politicized, knowing Nigeria, where we always pick up from where the other person stopped in terms of the negatives, is this or will this or can this ever be stopped being that this has been highly politicized as opposed to having a sense of direction? Well, we're discussing about Nigeria missions. A Nigerian mission will represent Nigeria and that's what it is. I do not think they have done anything that does not represent what Nigeria has become. The international missions are reflective of who you are internally at home. Oh dear, Mr. Nuju, I think we're having a connection issue with you. We're unable to hear you. You're breaking up. I do not know why that is but I'm going to try again. It's struggling. There's no need really not to work. Oh dear, apologies. Mr. Nuju, unfortunately- I can hear you. I can hear you. I can hear you. We couldn't hear anything you were saying. Yes, now we can hear you. Good. What would you ask? Yes, you were trying to say that what's happening with our foreign missions is a reflection of what's happening in the country. I think that's where we lost you. Well, missions represent their principles. Nigeria's mission across the world is representative of the world we have back home in Nigeria. Nigeria is challenged. It's not possible to seek that the foreign missions will run in- I think we lost you again. Let me go back to Eugene. Eugene, I want to quote something that some analysts have said about how detrimental what's happening with our foreign missions can be to the country in itself. Well, they're saying that not just the fact that this poor funding is detrimental to the long-term ambitions of the country but that we should see it as a reflection of the country's economy. But really, is it just about that? Because we've seen these foreign missions continuously expand every other day. We saw what happened on the Bahá'í administration where certain generals and leaders of the defense corps were sent as ambassadors to certain countries. Many people actually didn't like the idea, but we've seen that happen. And some analysts have said that we send diplomats abroad to enjoy themselves as opposed to chatting a course for Nigerians. But let's talk about the sufferings of Nigerians abroad. Now, we're not talking about the ones who've broken the law, but those people who suffer as a result of the fact that our missions outside the country are unable to speak on their behalf. And we've seen BKW Aeroa go back and forth on either social media or even in the press about certain things that have happened. Nigerians have been killed. They've been rough-handled. Some of them have, you know, one way or the other been treated badly. But then our foreign missions have not necessarily been able to wade in as opposed to if it were that country's, you know, national here in Nigeria, there would have been a swift response. Why do you think that not just about the funding but our relations in foreign countries seems to be pretty weak? Well, just like Dr. Ocachi said, the state of our missions abroad is a reflection of our society. Number two, the national assembly people trying to probe what they have done with the monies that we are supposedly projected for. The last time I saw the president in the national assembly, I saw them clapping. And in eight years, I've not seen them ask for a performance review of the previous budget. If you do a performance review of the previous budget, you will know if actually funds were disbursed to these agents, to these missions then, before you begin to ask what they did with the money. I expect that the national assembly, after passing budgets, if all new budgets are approved, should ask for performance, performance and review, and it should be made public so we know what percentage of the budget was actually performed on and how much and what were the reasons for the aspects that there was no performance or if there were no releases on. So this enables you to ask the appropriate questions. Bringing it to the state of the missions, categorically tells you that the missions are unable to provide consulate services to Nigerians abroad. If you try to get a Nigerian passport abroad, it will cost you not less than a hundred thousand dollars, trust me on that. Yes, and you will probably be on a very long key. In most nations, you might not be able to do that. So naturally, they will not use their hands to do jobs, which they are not funded for. So nothing is good, we should expect nothing as long as the fundamentals, which has to do with budgeting, which has to do with releasing, which has to do with performance management, which has to be, which has to do with the government's perspective on its foreign policy and how it plans to attend to the needs of its people in that country. All of this are supposed to add up. I would put it as something on the front burner, which every Nigerian is pretending not to see. Why would Dubai ban Nigerians from having visas? Today, 542 people have lost their jobs, who found their way at their own instant. Each person in Nigeria, 54, have just been brought back. What is the position of the Nigerian embassy in Dubai? What are the contending issues which they are unable to resolve? By now, we should hear the ambassador in United Arab Emirates making statements. We should expect to see the foreign affairs minister going to Dubai to have conversations on the issues that are causing the United Arab Emirates to react the way they are reacting. If you have, all of this can happen when you have a plan, the agencies that provide synergies and the things and the fundings that are supposed to provide that. Even if it's about the inability of the airlines to move their over 700 million dollars that trapped in Nigeria, a conversation seriously taken led by your foreign affairs minister, supported by the finance people and the central bank, if by visiting them, appealing to them, will have advocated most of these things. So when, if we continue on this trajectory, no nation is going to take us seriously. It naturally tells a picture of who you are as a country and investments naturally will run away. I'll give you a case in point. Recently, I was in DRC and the Nigerian embassy there, it's been managed by a very seasoned Nigerian and beyond that, when we did our findings in terms of investment, it's just because we found that, that the rule of law there is very weak. Anything can happen. It made us develop cold feet about considering investments in that country. Your mission is a reflection of your nation, whether you like it or not, that's where measurement begins from. How your people are treated is a reflection of how efficient your consulate services are in that country. Trust me, we know how these things are and they can be very cold. Dr. Katch, I think we have you now on the phone. So can you hear me? Yes, yes, yes. Great. Eugene has laid more on that foundation that he started on. Now it's time for us to look back in words, looking again at how governance happens here in Nigeria. We're getting ready for an election in a few months and we see that so many things are going or being swept under the carpet. For example, we have the issue of the oil theft, the destruction of that oil vessel that was found by the army and of course the army chief telling us that there was no need for an investigation. We've also seen other kinds of impunity take place within the country. How do we, where do we even start from to mop up the process? Because if we are truly a reflection of what or if our foreign missions is a true reflection of what's happening in our country, where do we start to, you know, need these issues in the bud, especially now that we're getting ready for elections. Mr Senator, can you hear me? Oh goodness, I don't think you can, can you hear me? I think that we lost that connection again. Mr Senator, can you hear me? Unfortunately, we lost him again. I think that there's some problematic connection where he is. So Eugene, back to you again. We're getting ready for elections. There is a momentum on social media. There's a momentum on the roads. There's a phenomenon of, you know, that we've seen all kinds of movements, whether it be the articulate or the bat or the obi dati movement, we're seeing the or the quank or siyes. How do these movements or what will these movements do for us as a people? Because we're following. Followership is great, but what will these people do for us or what have they done previously that should make people look to them for a change or a kind of restructuring that Nigeria needs? Well, we, we, the, the campaigns are, it, it gives you hope that there's one of the state of things at the, at the light at the end of the tunnel, whether you get to the lights in the front map, but you'll see this. And even though some of them have been recycled, and the new entrance of the blue are disruptors, we're looking for avenues to let off steam because there's so much tension and so much hardship in the land. So everybody is hoping and desiring that look, you know, it's always greener on the other side that this other side of people who are coming in, are likely to change the perspective of things that are about happening. But for me, I still like to advise the electorate that we must stop this mob kind of thinking and begin to interrogate processes. And in integrating processes, you should be able to have a convo. I'll just tell you one other thing. Sunik, the new prime minister of England, of the United Kingdom, made a speech. See the ceremonial representation of the Hindu festival season before it went into the down, into Downing Street. What was trending in Nigeria is the Hindu, the symbolic things and candles which he put before the entrance. The Wai celebration, yes. Yes. So people, most nobody is discussing the content of his speech, the fact that a colored man and an Asian has been able to reach that level of competence to be chosen to lead the United Kingdom. What does he represent? Yes, his rich is married to also to a very rich family. And then what does he represent? How does he affect us as Nigerians? Since Britain is a major stakeholder in the initials we deal with, our story cannot be told without Britain in the past, today and in the future. So nobody is interrogating those things. People are more interested in the juju part of the conversation, in the optics. Yes. So when you bring it down to the political terrain now, though people are not interrogating the manifestos, engaging these people who have put themselves forward to run, people are not interrogating them and asking, look, what are you going to do differently? Why are we where we are? Instead you'll be hearing, people suddenly have lost interest in debates, instead they lose their temper and begin to abuse you. So I would just like to call people that if we do not change and begin to interrogate the value chain of whatever we do, they will continue to short change us. Today we are left with those four people because we refuse to realize that as a nation we should have risen up, even if it means marching to national assembly to insist that there should be no delegated election, then we'll have this, this space will have open. But we have 16, we have almost 16 if not 18 of these presidential candidates and we just keep talking about four. I mean many have blamed us the media for just only showcasing these four as opposed to giving other people balance and fair hearing. So is it just these four people because this is what we are presenting or we're not giving other people an opportunity because they're more than four? Yes, it is so because we didn't interrogate the process, we should have refused the insertion of delegates election. People do not join political parties for delegates to represent them. They join political parties because they want to, they believe in that through this vehicle as we were able to express myself, we got carried away forgetting that once the governors hide back the parties through the delegate system, it is what the two before you vote for. By the way in Nigeria, we don't vote for human beings, we vote for insignia, umbrella, broom, fish, computer, boots and the rest of them. That's why, if you look now, a very important part of the political process is ignored. People only look at the president to be and the governors to be. Those who make the laws, those who drive the manifesto with the man at the leader of the parties post union, we don't know, we just, we just don't print the party insignia because their photographs are not there. These are changes who have insisted on before we went into this 2023 elections. And with where it is, well, we've come halfway with rivers and with the conversations under here, but we need to go back to the old ways whereby you need to conserve every member of a party. There should be no delegates election. That's why the governors are feeling cocky and believing that the owners, technically they do own us because they spend that money. They think to us that it's my money, it's my state. They don't say our. But you see, pundits would keep saying that oh, this is the year where we're all more involved in the political process, that there might be a change, but then we still see the types and shadows of what we've seen in time past. Like you have rightly mentioned, we're following movements, we're following symbols as opposed to persons. We're not asking the questions that we ought to be asking. And for a time like this, when Nigeria is almost at the brink, I wonder why that is not necessarily what we were putting forward. Again, with the level of impunity, I bring that back again, because even with the case of the missions, the National Assembly is saying it is a practice where these missions over expand their locations with impunity and that they think that this should be frowned upon, even though in this case it's a pot calling kettle black, but this impunity is reflected within and without and nobody questions nothing. We only grumble about this and then we keep it moving. I mean, how optimistic are you about the 2023 elections? Well, if it happens, we'll be happy that it has happened and we hope that What do you mean by this? What do you mean by if it happens? Anything can happen. I'm pessimistic. Anything can happen. Anything can happen. There are things telling us in the face, there are issues of insecurity. 20 or 10 percent of the country is flooded. We don't know where the floods will reside. We don't know what that is coming. And insecurity is taking almost another 10 or 15 percent of the country. Constitutionally, will you be able to conduct elections in that kind of atmosphere? Because in the world of Biasis today, you can't conduct an election. Everybody does not live by property or mines. People are believing that the water will walk away. No, it's there. It's even almost like these local governments in Lagos state. Now, you also have the ambushments that are taking place now whereby all manner of cases have been filed in court which have some, most of them are pre-election matters. And they've been hidden there. And you are not seeing people, those who are contestants are skeptical about engaging fully in campaigning because they're not sure what the outcomes of what the judiciary will come up with. We've seen things like that on the eve of an election. Suddenly, a judgment is given. Recently, we saw one that has to do with 2019, which concerns the APC in Riverside. The judiciary, we cannot allow things to happen like that. The judiciary is not supposed to be part of the political process. It's supposed to be an aspect where interpretations should be made. And all the cases concerning an electoral process should be time bound so that they do not exceed certain stages of the elections, so that there's an equal playing field for people. So what people can do now is, what people do is, I allow you to take your phone, but I go to court and file one matter against you and ensure I get victory. And so by the time you are coming and struggling with the courts, I've been campaigning as an advantage over you. We need to check out all the, with all of these things and pessimistic until the elections come, then I'm sure that we're having that. For now, the issues of security, we've seen the advice from the United States government. We've seen the attitude of the information minister, which is drunk, which is drunk, and instead of him to have left the speeches to be done by the DSR, the head of state security and the police, which they've done properly. And the, and their statements were properly couched and had granted confidence to the people. And he comes to tribalize it. I don't know if he's running for election. So, which is wrong to tell you that, I know they have a very lenient boss, as the most lenient president in the world, he never fires people. So that's why they can't hear the way they're being. Now bringing it back to the issue of budget and the issue of overspending as claimed by national assembly, they cannot claim overspending when most of the missions are claimed not being funded to where they get the money they're spending. For the funds they're making from providing consolation, passport, visas and so on, back home, where are the rules for accountability? We're not on answered questions. We cannot keep acting the way we're acting. The national assembly should stop playing the ostrich. They know what the issues are. If you do not seek for a review, a quarterly review of the performance of the budget, if you do not sanction people for carrying out those performances, the extent that there's performance on those budgets, and you know it's linked to revenue, if those things are not done, if you're there pretending that you do not realize that you're losing almost 800 buyers of oil, which will affect your revenue, then you do not deserve to bring the national assembly. The way that I was watching them, them and the additional minister and so on, they all being centimeter that why foreign airlines are acting the way they're acting. The IATM has reminded them you cannot be owing $7000,000 and expect people to keep quiet. $1,000,000 is $740,000,000. It's not beans. I guess that if we continue to talk about our problems, we'll probably not get out of here today, but I guess that we're also going to hope and rely on Hail Marys until the elections, until we decide that we're going to take strong steps to make sure that things turn around. But I want to say thank you, Eugene Ables is the Executive Director, Extra Step Initiative, and of course, thanks to Katchan Nuju, who's a public affairs analyst, unfortunately, the connection didn't let him stay on the conversation. Thank you so much, Eugene, once again. Thank you for having me. All right, we'll take a quick break. Now, when we get back, we'll be discussing the electoral act and how it affects rigging in 2023. Stay with us.