 And hi, Sandy. Hi. So it looks like there's one interpreter on this. I'll help you promote. Thank you. Thank you, Marina and Charles for joining us. I'm going to make an early announcement while we're waiting for our. For our quorum. And then, Marina. Charles, did you want to translate for me first? Who went into translate for me first? And I'll put the other one in interpretation services. Charles can go into Spanish interpreting first. Okay. Let me start that. I'll put you in the Spanish channel first, right? Charles. Correct. Okay. Thank you. For those just joining the meeting live translation in Spanish is available and members wishing to listen in Spanish can join the Spanish channel to do so. Click on the interpretation icon in the zoom toolbar. That looks like a globe. Once you finish the Spanish, once you join the Spanish channel, we recommend you shut off the main audio. So you only hear the Spanish translation. Marina, would you mind translating that for us, please? Sure. I know that you are. Thank you so much. I'm going to be a little bit more specific. The question is much, thank you very much for being with us to use the characteristics of the zoom, the, sorry, the interpretation. They are going to click on the globe that is in the. Part of the background. Of his screen. Thank you. So Stephanie, do we have a corner? Okay. Great. So with that, I'm going to go ahead and call to order tonight's meeting of the charter review committee and ask for roll call please. Okay. Thank you. Member week. Yeah. Member Walsh. Member Villalobos. Member Pitt. Yeah. Member Oliveris. Here. Member Miner. Present. Member Miller. Mr. Miller. I can see you. I'll mark you present since we can see you. I'm member Mazea. Yes. Member Martinez. Member Ling. I'm here. Member close. Member Goudina. I'm here. I'm here. I'm here. Member close. Member Goudina. I'm here. Member Diaz. Member Cunningham. I'm here. Member Condren. Here. Member Byrne. Here. Member Bartley. Here. Member Bedford. Here. Member Barber. Member Arizon. Here. Thank you. Chair Siscoe. Here. Okay, let me go back. Member Villalobos, have you joined us? Here. Thank you. Member Walsh, have you joined us? Member Martinez, have you joined us? Member Close, have you joined us? Member Diaz, have you joined us? Okay. Let the record show that all committee members are here with the exception of committee members Barber. I'm here. I'm here. I'm here. I'm here. Oh, you're here. Thank you. Okay. Let the member record show that all committee members are here with the exception of committee members Diaz. Close. Martinez and Walsh. Oh, I see. Member Close coming on. Member Close, have you connected to the meeting? Yes. Okay. So I've updated the roll call to show member close. Present. So with that, there's just some housekeeping notes here. Just remind committee members to keep your audio muted unless you are speaking. And then as members of the public join them meeting via zoom, they'll be a participating as an attendee. And cameras and microphones will be muted. If you're calling from a telephone and choose to speak during the public comments portion of. The agenda for privacy concerns, the host will be renaming your viewable phone number to residents and the last four digits of your phone number. The city of Santa Rosa is committed to creating a safe and inclusive environment free from disruption. We will not tolerate any hateful speech or actions and are well staffed to monitor that everyone is participating respectfully or they will be removed. If necessary, we will also immediately end the meeting. Public comments will be heard after each agenda item is presented. After each agenda item is presented, chair Cisco will ask for the committee member comments and then open it up for public comment. If you are participating from zoom or by telephone and wish to make a live public comment on a specific item. At the time, public comment is opened by chair Cisco for that item. Please use the raise hand feature. If you are calling in via telephone, you can dial star nine to raise your hand throughout today's agenda when chair Cisco calls for public comment. An interpreter will be prepared to assist anyone needing interpretation services. Those using interpreter support will be afforded additional time for public comment as required by the brown act. We asked those listening on the Spanish channel, but wishing to make a public comment to turn off the interpretation channel entirely at the time you hear your name called so you can join the main channel to make your public comment heard and translated into English. This icon may now look like a circle with an E S in the middle and the word Spanish underneath. You can then rejoin the Spanish channel at the conclusion of your comment to continue listening in Spanish. Thank you. Thank you. I just wanted to let you know, Stephanie, I did get a message from Anna Diaz that she's trying to get in. So she'll hopefully be able to join us soon. Okay. Yes, we'll keep an eye out for her name. She's having some trouble logging in. Thank you. Thank you. To the committee members, if you log in using your iPad and use the link that was sent out just shortly before the meeting, you will be joining as a panelist and won't need to be promoted. So I just want to remind committee members to please use the iPad that you were issued. And if you don't, please do not use your personal email addresses to send out the agenda or the meeting links. Great. Thank you. With that, we'll move on to public comments on non agenda matters, which is a time for any member of the public to address the committee on matters. Not listed on tonight's agenda, but that are of interest to the committee. Again, if you're participating by zoom, you can be recognized by the host and you'll be given three minutes to speak. If you're dialing in by phone, please dial star nine and similarly you'll be recognized by the host. So with that, I'll go ahead and open public comments and check with our host to see if anyone is there wishing to speak. Chair Cisco, I don't see any hands raised at the moment. Would you like our interpreter to translate about the raised hands? For those who have just joined, are we okay? We did do that interpretation at the beginning. Okay. Then I'm going to go ahead. Why don't we go ahead and do that again real quick. Okay. Thank you. Marina, would you mind translating that? Okay. How to call in or how to raise your hands. And then we'll, I'll move you into the Spanish channel. Please. And thank you. Sure. Of course. I'm sorry, you're going to have to say it in English again. I'm so sorry because I was, Charles was interpreting that into. Yeah. Sure. Yeah, we're asking any members of the public if they're wanting to make a comment under a public comments, non agenda items. And they're participating by zoom to use the raised hand feature so that they can be recognized or if they're calling in to use the star nine feature so that they can be recognized and asked to speak for the three minutes. Okay. So that's for the people who want to make comments about the points that are not on the agenda and they're calling by zoom, you can use the raised hand. If they're calling by phone, you can use the star nine feature so that they can make a question. Thank you. Thank you. Great. Thank you. And I raised hands. So I'm going to go ahead and put her into this Spanish channel. Thank you. Okay. Great. Great. Okay, so with that, we'll go ahead and close that public comment item. Move on to item three, which is approval of minutes. We don't have any minutes this evening. So with that, we'll move on to our scheduled items beginning with a recurring item 4.1 or equity principles. And is Cora going to be giving a presentation on that. Hi, good evening. Yes, I do. I am ready to facilitate the discussion. It's not so much a PowerPoint as it is looking at the document together. Hopefully this will be a version that perhaps we can bring forward for a formal upset acceptance. But I did want to bring everybody's attention to the documents that are attached. There are two versions of the equity principles, please look at the updated version. And then the equity priority maps and the definitions page is included only to be of ease to you to access, but not necessarily complete relevant to this conversation right now but just trying to make sure that those tools that you might need are at you at the ready for you. So, over the last two weeks I wish everyone a happy new year and I hope you had a great holiday season and I hope you're staying a McCron safe. Getting that all out of the way. We had a chance to speak with our seed consultant about what this committee had asked for and the way that you're kind of trailblazing how we might approach looking at equity and embedding it in our work. And so he helped me with Taylor a couple of the things I think they're small adjustments we did add a mission statement for us. He added the value of equity and trust. We then thought about a way to create some parallel structures for the norms and principles, and I hope that if there are questions or discussion points I hope we got all of the recommendations from before in terms of I've looked at this numerous times and I'm sure they're still a period somewhere or comma that I missed so please bring that to my attention. And once we get for further clarity that this is an a version that you like we will make it more visually and graphically pleasing we're also kind of researching how to get that done for you, and it will of course be translated. Great. Any other questions of Sakura right now, before I ask for public comments. I have a question that choices go. I can't tell me who you are. Sorry, Jasmine, I have a question. Okay, Jocelyn good. Thank you. Oh, yeah. No, Jasmine, just see your hand. Yeah. Okay, so my question is on the documents that show the equity priority areas. So yours on the legend. There are some that outline where there's top 25% below poverty and then also top 25% people of color and then also equity priorities. You know, because of historical events have disproportionately underserved and oppressed certain groups specifically people of color I would assume that there is some overlap between categories. As you know we see in other areas of disparity. So I wonder, you know I didn't really see any overlap in terms of priority areas or those categories. As far as I can see in the map. So I'm wondering where those overlap and how, how do you tell where they're overlapping. Let me pull that up I can share that the our city expert on these maps is Beatriz Guerrero and she is a way today but certainly she could bring forward her process for defining these areas so that everyone's quite clear but I actually let me pull it up the map is actually the overlap areas there are actually two other maps that are just them, but the areas that are highlighted as our priority areas are where there is overlap, but let me make sure. Let me make sure. But yes you are absolutely right. Commissioner that it, or. Yeah, commission, this is a commission committee committee member. That that is what we're looking for is that historical overlap and kind of that compounded harm so yes. But again, I need to find that document. I can if it's a question that needs to come back later, you know, if it needs to be go to the specialist that's okay to. Yes. Okay, what I believe is true and I again, I'll work with Sue in the chair to see if it's appropriate when it might be appropriate to have a short presentation from Beatriz, but the green areas do actually indicate the overlap where they're independently yellow or independently blue are areas of import but not overlap. Got it. Thank you. I think any other. Questions before I go to public comment. This is Ryan Miller. Okay. I had a terrible work. Some places where previous ballots failed. And we're going to be working on this I'd like to know what caused him to fail if you, if that can be determined. Okay. I'm not sure where that fits into this particular discussion but we're going to hold that question in a in the parking lot because I think it's a very good question for kind of where we're headed. So, let's hold on to that one. Thank you. Any other. Yeah, Christine. Yeah, I have a question. Sakura thank you so much again for providing these resources and doing all the presentations for us super appreciate it. I love this document in general and in particular I'm looking at the norms list, and number one is all about access. So, you all can read it but provided diverse array of channels through which public can provide input. Any comments and questions. And I guess what I'm wondering from you, Sakura is if you can provide any recommendations for us as a committee for procedures for how we could live up to that norm, or really embody that norm in the work that we're doing. Certainly, I think that when you establish your areas that you know you want to discuss I mean right because there is some funneling down of concepts and, and ideas that has to be done before you kind of sink your teeth into that the finesse of that I think that depending on how the chair and and Sue see the process, all along the way we have many. We have many existing commissions and an appointed councils within the city so like for them to be arms of collecting information the cab is another and we do have an office of engagement that if these were specific and not kind of a public service, you know so free for all there are ways and we have a fabulous communications department which can utilize the city newsletter and other things like that we have, you know, we broadcast things so there are ways while there's, while the meetings are paused we could run a slide or something for more information to get people's interest. There are multiple ways I think that the challenge for this group will be where your points are that you want the most input because I think there is a point to have diminishing returns. I didn't necessarily ask multiple times for multiple. So you really have to have a clear focus and decide when the most critical parts will be to get feedback from the community and then I think there are multiple ways and departments in this city that can help facilitate that once narrowed. We have many media bilingual radio stations, the press Democrat I mean there's so many. Again when we're focused and intentional in that. Great well I appreciate that range of support that is being offered. Yeah and one of the things that I think is going to be important is that we, we focus that so that that feedback comes through to us during these meetings so you know whatever our, our outreach is it's about, the agendas in certain places that so that people know that this is going on but so that the feedback comes through to us through this meeting. Similar to how a city council meeting goes so that that would be kind of what I'm looking for in terms of the our access. So that's, you know, the community knows that this is going on and then how they can participate here. So, okay. Any other questions before we go to public comment. Okay not seeing any. I'm going to go ahead and open it to the public. Again, if you're participating by zoom and you wish to participate by zoom use your raised hand feature so that you can be recognized. I have three minutes to speak. This would be on the item about equity principles. And if you're dialing in by phone if you could use star nine, you'd be recognized. And I'll check with the host to see and chair Cisco I don't see any raised hands currently. Okay, great so then I'm going to bring it back to us. I have a couple of comments to coral. You know we've been using this this document as a model that came from the redistricting process, and under principles. I'm wondering about I know we took out the references to redistricting and put in in the commission but I'm concerned about the language for the principles in particular can be modified because their charge was different than what our charge was their charge was to go out and engage the community because different maps were going to be drawn. And I'm a little concerned about the language under to four and five, not the titles, not the spirit but just to have the language not insinuate that there's going to be. Well not to have it look like it for a redistricting process is going as what's going on here. Because basically it's, you know, we're doing a layered process that redistricting process. They only had the opportunity to go in front of the board of supervisors who ultimately decided on the maps, whereas in this process, whatever we make our recommendation to the city council, they're going to have to public hearings on those grounds, and ultimately it's the voters at large that that take the vote so there's going to be, you know, a wider of they have more choice than what the redistricting was so I don't know how to change that language but I just don't want to insinuate or that that that it's exactly the same. We're not engaged in the process that that redistricting committee was engaged in in terms of collecting preferences and about where the lines are drawn and things like that. Does that make sense. It does I would say for the principles in particular, those were actually changed quite quite a bit actually. I think that's from the redistricting and after discussions with kind of seed and their perspective and they had no involvement at all with the redistricting. But the idea this does reflect the city's commitment to targeted universalism so lifting goals for all, and then noticing the strategies that are different. And yeah, I think this actually is similar in a vein but it, but I leave it for the group to discuss. Okay well I just, if you're if you've looked at it and you think that it's clear that I'm comfortable with that if the other committee members are comfortable with that so just it just raised that question for me it's this I don't want to, you know, we're not going through that process that the redistricting did so. Okay. Anything else we want to say on this item. Okay, well again thanks for all your information Sakura and help appreciate it. Thank you. All right. Okay. I'm going to move on to item 4.2. We need to elect a vice chair this evening, and I'm going to go ahead and kind of explain how we're going to go about doing that. I'm going to explain how we're going to do it we do have to take, you know if you have questions you can ask questions, I'll go to the public as we typically do. But when we get to the to the point of making nominations what I'm going to do is ask for nominations and so raise your hand. I'll call on you you can give me if you plan to nominate an individual. Before I call for a second on that nomination, I will check with that individual to make sure they are willing to serve. And if they are then I'll go ahead and call for a second, and then call for any other nominations and when we have a slate. We have to do an oral vote so then we can call on each person to vote for whatever candidate they they choose to sell any any questions on the method. I would ask that when a nomination is made in a second that the votes are done separately, because they can't do a motion. There are several nominations. So if there's one nomination and a second we can vote on it so that it reflects in my minutes away the program works. I can only put in one motion at a time. So we can't. That's going to be kind of confusing because if we have one nominee and we all vote. Yeah, I'm not quite sure how we can do that. So how do you suggest. Yeah, I think this is going to be a little bit different than we've done it at the Council for various appointments. And we'll accept nominations. And then once we have the nominations however many people are nominated. We take a vote at that point and each committee member will vote for one, one committee, one individual to the vice chair, and whoever receives the most votes would become the vice chair. The process though is not set in stone. So if there are, if the chair wants to consider other processes, she can certainly do that but I think that's probably the simplest way to move forward. Okay, it may be a little clunky when I do the roll call for voting. So just bear with me and and at that point I'll also keep track of the votes. So hopefully between the two of us and others we can keep things straight. Okay. Any questions from committee members before I ask for public comment. Not seeing any. Hands up. There's Mr. Oliver is yet one. No, I was just saying that there are hands. I have my hand up Annie. Oh, okay. Sorry. And hers up also. So is this simply someone who would with their responsibility be to step in when you cannot be here. That's pretty much the responsibility. Yeah. And to work with me to make sure that, you know, prior to meetings they're clear on the agenda so that if I had to be absent, they would be able to do that. Thank you. Karen, you have a question. Yeah, so you're going to do public comments and then bring it back to us for a nomination. Yes. Okay, thank you. Yes. That's, that's what I'm told I'm doing. Okay. No. Any other questions. So did you want to have the nominations on the table before you take public comment? Or did you want to take a public comment prior to names being on the table? Well, What do you suggest? Because I'm just looking at how, how we typically do it. I don't know if the public might want to make a comment about how we take the nominations. Sure. I don't know. So that's fine. Sure. You want to go ahead and do it that way. Yeah. All right. Okay, so with that I'll go ahead and open the opportunity for public comment on item 4.2. Again, if you're on zoom, use your raise hand feature. If you're dialing in by phone dial star nine and you'll be able to participate. And This is for item 4.2 selection of vice chair public comments and I don't see any hands raised at the moment. Okay, great. So we'll go ahead and come back to the committee. And would somebody like to make a nomination? I would. This is Karen Karen. Okay. I'd like to nominate Ernesto Oliveris is vice chair. Okay. Ernesto, are you willing to accept that nomination? I would be honored to. Okay. Can I call for a second? Second. Who was that? Dan. Okay. Dan seconded. Okay. And any other nominations seeing Christine. Yeah, I'd like to nominate Jasmine Guidino. Okay. And Jasmine, are you, would you be willing to serve if selected? Yes, thank you for the nomination. Okay. And Annie barber would be happy to second that. Okay. Okay. Any other nominations. Lisa. I think you would like to nominate Logan Pitts. I would like to nominate Logan. Would you be willing to serve if. I will have to decline that it's possible. I will have to miss some April meetings due to travel. So. I don't want to put the committee in that position. I can't understand you Logan. So could you, could you tell us again? Oh, I'm going to decline that Patty. I might have scheduling issues. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Okay. So I don't need a second on that then. And any other. Okay. Not seeing any other. Okay. So we have two nominees. Ernesto Oliver is nominated by Karen week seconded by Dan. And we have. Jasmine. We have two nominees nominated by Christine and seconded by Annie barber. So with that, as bumpy as it may be Stephanie, would you take our call for our votes, please? Remember weeks. Hi. Yes. For Oliver. Are we voting on Ernesto first and then. Okay. Well, you have to vote for who you're going to vote for. Okay. We're voting on Ernesto. Okay. So we're only voting on Ernesto right now, right? And if you want him, you vote yes. And if you don't, you vote no. Is that how we're doing this? I was just going to have you go through the role once and enter the names, but if you think that's a better method for you, Stephanie, we could do that. I'll let me bring up a different document then. Okay. Whatever makes it easy for you. Just bring up this other document. Walsh is absent. Member Villalobos. Me. Member pits. I'm voting for member Jasmine. Goudina. Member Oliveris. I would vote for myself. Member minor. I vote for Jasmine. Member Miller. Well, for Ernesto Oliveris. Member Mazia. Or Ernesto please. Member Ling. Vote for member Oliveris. Thank you. Member Klaus. I vote for member Oliveris. Member Goudina. I would like to vote for myself. Thank you. Member Diaz. Ms. Jasmine Goudina. Member Cunningham. Member Goudina. Member Kondren. I vote for member Oliveris. Member Byrne. Vote for member Jasmine Goudina. Member Bartley. Mr. Oliveris. Member Badenport. Member Oliveris. They feel intimidated. Member Barber. I vote for Jasmine. Member Arizon. Jasmine Goudina please. I vote for Ernesto Oliveris. I vote for Ernesto Oliveris. And chairs Cisco. For Ernesto Oliveris. I'm getting 10 for Ernesto, and 9 for Jasmine. Is that match everybody else's count? Everybody's nodding. Okay. Welcome Ernesto. Thank you for being willing to do it. And thank you, just mean for also being willing to do that. Thank you, madam chair. Okay. So next. I'm sorry, what? No, I just, I was just saying thank you. Okay. Great. All right. So tonight. We are about to move on to our main item, which is 4.3. Our presentation and discussion on council compensation. And I believe, Sue, you're going to start with that. Yes, I will. I'll try to go through the presentation. It's a little bit long, but I'll try to go through it fairly quickly so that the committee has ample time to engage in a discussion and deliberation. So, of course, this is a continued discussion. We did started at our last meeting. Next slide. And this is just a reminder of what the current council compensation is. This is set forth in our charter set forth in our charter that the compensation will be determined in accordance with state law. With the exception that the mayor gets 150% of the council member sorry. And as we talked about last time, the state law sets forth a schedule of council compensation based on city population. And for Santa Rosa. And the state law sets forth a schedule of council compensation based on city population. And this population of almost 180,000. We fall into the category of cities with population between 150. And 250,000. And the state law provides for salary of $800 a month. Next slide. State law does allow that monthly salary to be increased. Up to 5% per calendar year. So the maximum income crease, this is a monthly is $40 per month. So after year one, it could have been 840 the year after 880 and so forth. And the $40 per month increase accumulates if it's not immediately applied. And the state law states that's calculated from the operative date of the last adjustment. The increase is it has to be adopted by council ordinance. It does not go into effect automatically. So next slide. As we talked about last time, the council compensation has not been adjusted for just about a decade. So under the current law, the council by ordinance. Could adjust its monthly salary by $40 for each of the last 10 years. That would be a total one time increase in monthly salary of $400. That would result in a new monthly council. Of $1200. That's the existing 800 plus the increase of 400. Leading to 1200. And this would result in a new annual salary of. $14,400. That's for the council members. Next slide. For the mayor a little bit more. Mayor currently receives $1,200 a month. And again, you could have the 5% increase, which would be equal to $60 for each of the last 10 years. That would be a one time increase in monthly salary of $600. That would result in a new monthly mayor salary total of $1,800 a month. And that would result in an annual salary of 21,600. And again, this is what could be possible. By council action alone, a council adoption of an ordinance. They can do that at any time. Next slide. The adjustments are go into effect only when at least one council member begins a new term. It doesn't have to be a new council new individual on the council, but at least one council member begins a new term. So since our elections occur every other year, the adjustments can be made every other year. And they again, they're not automatic. So they have to be done. Done by the council. Kind of looking, looking backwards. With an election coming up next year, the council does have the opportunity, the option of making that adjustment by ordinance anytime between now and November. Next slide. So there are alternatives to this process. The charters provision that links the council's compensation to state law that is optional. It's compensation is a matter of municipal affairs. And if you remember back towards the beginning, if it's a matter of municipal affairs, the voters of the city of Santa Rosa can change. They can change the charter as they wish. So this is fully within the discretion of the city voters. The voters, as I say here, can set whatever council compensation they deem appropriate. There are no limits under state law. Next slide. So that was all kind of where we are right now. So how are we going forward? We talked a little bit last time about what we're trying to solve. We're trying to have everyone keep that very much in mind. What are the most important elements in your eyes? You are the committee that's been appointed. To make a recommendation. We talked last time about. Would an increase in council compensation. Increase opportunities for greater diversity on the council. And would it encourage a continued recruitment of strong candidates, at least not discourage people from, from running. We talked a little bit last time too about the fairness to council members. We looked at the mayor's schedule. And recognize the amount of work that he does that he is required really obligated to do as mayor. Is virtually a full time job. And are there other issues that we didn't talk about last week, are there other issues that committee members feel are important. And that we are trying to address by increasing council compensation. Among the, among the. Item materials that were provided. In the, with the agenda. Was the Berkeley measure JJ. That was passed by the voters in 2020. And I do recommend reading particularly. For relative to this slide recommend reading the arguments that were made for and against that measure, that measure substantially increased council member salaries. And I'll just read just a brief part of it. And that is. Berkeley's new public financing of elections makes it possible for candidates with important perspectives to run. But the very low compensation makes it impossible for many to serve. Single parents, young people without generational wealth. People of color and working class residents are hindered by the compensation, which was set over 20 years ago and has not kept pace with the area cost of living. And I think that that argument is much longer and goes on, but I just wanted that clip. I think captures. Some of the sense of the council. When they asked this committee to at least look at and consider amendments relative to council. Compensation. A couple of things also that are not on this slide, but I think are helpful to think about is what are our recommendations? I think that's a good point. You saw the mayor's agenda. If we pulled up an agenda from one of the council members, you'd see also that very extensive obligations for both council members and for the mayor. So is it the community's expectation that these are essentially full-time positions, part-time positions? What's that expectation? I think that's a good point. I'm going to go back to the council members. I'll go back to the council members. I went into effect. And then third, we might talk about it a little bit later is how do the benefits. Benefits fit in. So council members receive salary, but they also receive benefits, health and other benefits. From the city. So a couple of things to think about. Next slide. I've identified three key decision points. First is how are salaries calculated? Second is the dollar amount. And then third, the process. What's the process for setting and updating council member salaries? We'll walk through the three of those. Next slide. So first, how are salaries calculated? And these, the next, this slide and the next really outlined some of the methods that are used in other cities. To determine council salaries. So some jurisdictions state a flat dollar amount. And that might be in their charter. Or in an ordinance or in a resolution. So for example. Petaluma has four council members, $5 per meeting. And that's in their charter. $10 per meeting for the mayor. Again, you can see there's also the, in Fremont, it's $2248 per month. So is it per month? Is it per meeting? Is there some other calculation, but then a flat dollar amount? And some jurisdictions, as I note here, do not provide for any specified increases. So the next option really is to have a flat dollar amount somewhere, whether in the charter and ordinance or resolution, but have some provision for an increase. Commonly, probably most commonly, it includes a reference to state laws. And that's the five percent increase, but some jurisdictions tie it to the CPI or to set some other cap. Livermore, for example, sets increases at the lesser of CPI or 5%. One of the other jurisdictions set a 4% cap. They vary from place to place. Next slide. So moving away from a flat rate, some jurisdictions tie their council member salary to salary of some other public official. And either equal to some other public official salary or some percentage of it. So either equal to or some percentage of a superior court judge salary. There's a couple of jurisdictions that do that, including the county of Sonoma. Some set it at a percentage of department head salaries. Oakland references city manager salaries of. Nearby cities. We talked last time, there was a suggestion from a committee member that maybe it's a city employee salary, maybe the lowest city employees salary on our salary schedule. Instead of tying to some other public official salary, it could be tied to median income. And there are a couple of jurisdictions that do that. So the county of Sonoma, Modesto sets it at a 50% of area median income. There's Berkeley sets it now at 100% of area median income for a three person household. For the mayor and then 63% of AMI for, or of the mayor's salary for council members. So that was the, that was the ratio of the mayor and council member salary prior to it being adopted. Also another option I don't have on here is we talked before, I think there was some suggestion of minimum wage. Could we tie it somehow to minimum wage? And we would have, if we want to go that direction would need to think about what, what are the hours that we're attributing to the mayor or to a council member and then translate that multiplied by the, by the minimum wage. Just to give you a sense on the, on the median income, median income for, for Sonoma County for a three person household is $92,950. That's a hundred percent. That's area median income. We'll talk and I'm looking at whether I'm going to talk now or later. Well, we'll talk about this later increases, but so those are, so those are five, I think different methods of kind of establishing the salary, flat rate, flat rate with some provision for increases, tie it to some other public official salary, tie it to median income, tie it to minimum wage. Next slide. So the second kind of element to look at is the dollar amounts. Are you comfortable with where the calculation ends up? If you select a method of calculation, are you comfortable with where that ends up? How does it compare to the level allowed by state law? How does it compare to salaries in similar cities or nearby cities or statewide cities? Does it reasonably reflect the council member workload? And is it generally acceptable to the voters? Now I want to emphasize on this last one. I think the politics of council compensation, compensation, you know, that's, that's not really the task of this committee. That will be for the council. But that being said, it will, of course, be part of our natural. Thought process as we're discussing this. What's reasonable. What might be reasonable to the general public. And before I move into the third element, which is process, I just want to mention a couple of other elements. There are a couple of jurisdictions, Modesto and Petaluma in particular, that have a reduction for missed meetings. If a council member misses a meeting, I'm going to move to the third element. I'm going to move to the third element. I'm going to move to the third element. I'm going to move to the third element. I'm going to move to the third element. Before we have a good, strong diverse committee here. So this committee in itself can also be a good judge of what might be. What might seem reasonable to the general public. If a council member misses a meeting. You might want to think about whether you want to include that. And then the increases, what do we tie the increase to tie it to the 5%. To CPI. If the salaries are tied to public officials. Are the. If that other public official gets a raise. Does the council member also get a raise. If it's tied to area median income, does it rise with the area median income? And I will mention with, in particular, with tying it to other public officials. Just want to highlight San Diego was not part of our list of cities. It's in Southern California and it's much, much larger than city of Santa Rosa. So we did not include it on any of our lists. But a few years ago, they did. Voters approved. A new salary level for their mayor and council members. Tied to the salary of Supreme Court. Judges. That at that time, at the time when it was adopted that raised. That raised the mayor. It raised it to $106,000. And it ran it raised the. Sorry to 150,000. But again, tied to. Tied to Supreme Court judges. And last year, Supreme Court judges got a very significant increase. And so those. Those automatic increases went into effect. And for the mayor, it went from 100,000 to over 200,000. And city council member salaries went from 75,000 to over $125,000. Again, just automatically based on. On the increases to some, you know, to the Supreme Court judges. So we can talk a little bit more about San Diego example, but that's just a kind of a warning. That if you decide to, to tie it to some other public. Officials. Salary. Think about how you want to deal with. Deal with increases. Next slide. So now the process. And the process can be as simple as the actual dollar salary set forth in the charter. So if you want to deal with increases, you can set forth in the charter. Instead you could set forth in the charter as a. The calculate method of calculation. There are a number of, there are several jurisdictions. And when we get to the chart, you'll see the three jurisdictions that are. A larger population. Above Santa Rosa. Have come have appointed commissions. To review and recommend salary adjustments. And then we have the commission. And then we have the commission. A couple of the jurisdictions have that commission meet every other year. One of the jurisdictions has very specific criteria for who's on that commission. There's a. One of the jurisdictions has quite a process of there have to be at least. Two public hearings before the. One or two hearings in front of the council. So it becomes a pretty involved. Involved. Process. So. And then you may have other ideas for other procedures. That you would like to consider. So. Next slide. Now we'll look at just a little bit at some of the data. I included. In the. In the materials chart. I also included not only in the PowerPoint, but as an attachment. To the agenda item. List of comparable cities. This is 11 cities and this county of Sonoma. And this is the list that is currently used by the city. For comparison for establishing and evaluating. City employee salaries. This list is going to be under review next year. So it could change, but this is the list currently. And it is listed in the order here in the order of population. So. If you included Santa Rosa in this list directly, it would be the second largest population. Under, you know, we currently have the 9,600. The average of the 11 cities is 20,152. And if you look at it just individually, six of the city's comparable cities, larger and smaller. Are six of those cities are above. The Santa Rosa rate. Actually, I'm sorry, I was basing that on if it was, if we move to the. What was possible under state law, there would be six above one essentially equal and three below. If it kept at the 9,600. Then it's just two of the 11 jurisdictions are below. Our current salary. And of course the county of Sonoma is much higher. At 160, almost 161,000. So that's the comparable cities. Then I included chart. Next slide. Of North Bay cities. And these are cities from Sonoma County, Northern Moran. And I also added included the city of Napa. All of these cities are much smaller than Santa Rosa. So they may be of minimal comparative value. On the other hand, I thought that people might be curious as to what other local jurisdictions have. Also on this chart, I started adding in Robin, I started adding in where their health benefits. And I'll mention now for Santa Rosa, our council members receive health, dental vision, life insurance, long-term disability and retirement benefits. I'll also note, and just in looking at this chart. Cloverdale and Sonoma, both recent, both are tied to state law. And both, both of them are general law cities. Both of them in the last few years considered whether to increase salary based on the 5% allowable under state law. Cloverdale did increase, increased their salary from 3,600 to 6,600. And Sonoma County, Sonoma city of Sonoma, I'm sorry, city of Sonoma, a decline to increase their salary. So they're still at the, at the 3,600 level. Next slide. We'll also have a slide at the end that gives the broader California cities data. I want to talk a little bit about what was proposed previously and what was proposed elsewhere. So the measure M from Sonoma County and the measure JJ from Berkeley. Measure M was presented to the voters in 20, I'm sorry, in 2002. So I want to emphasize that was 20 years ago. And it would have increased council salaries to 1,500 per month with the mayor at 2,250. And it would have given an annual increase. Equal to that given to city executive staff, but not to exceed CPI. And it failed. But I do want to encourage you not to put too much stock in the failure of measure M. Again, that was 20 years ago. Circumstances have changed. We're now in district elections. And you have had the chance to see some of the arguments that were presented in Berkeley and Berkeley past. Berkeley, of course, is a different community from Santa Rosa, but it could be informative. So next slide. So compare the recent Berkeley proposal on that's measured JJ presented in 2020. And it set the mayor sorry at median income for a three person household in Alameda County. And then it said the council member sorry at 63% of the mayor sorry. And that resulted next slide. And mayor sorry of 107,300. And a council member, sorry, annual salary of 67,600. And these would be annually adjusted based on changes to the areas median income. And it passed. With 64.6 in support. I tried to, I know the. Council. Some of the committee members asked about, you know, what's the data from experience of other cities. Have not, we've not been able to get much data. Unfortunately. I did reach out to Cloverdale. But their increase was relatively small. And I did not hear back as to whether there was any noticeable impact on council candidacies. Berkeley, they just adopted this in 2020. So don't yet have experience and what that will mean. And then I will mention in San Diego. Kind of a mix of reactions. Again, their salary went up. Can vary significantly. And in looking at articles that were published. Both at the time of passage and then. More recently at the time of passage. It was heralded as a great thing. To have the increased in salary. And that it was attracting high caliber, what was described in the article as high caliber. Candidates, including businessmen. Lawyers, but also firefighters. So. So interesting. But when it, when we got that, when they had the automatic increase last year, it was really slammed in the papers for, for the amount that was given. And I'm sorry, I had one article that was saying that was tied to the salaries of the Supreme Court judges. I think the correct answer is that it was tied to the salaries of superior court judges. So in San Diego. Next slide. And then this is the chart of other California cities. And I won't spend a lot of time. It's, I know very small print. Again, it is available also separately as an attachment. But you can see, again, that there are a number of different types of benefits. And I think I've covered all of the different elements that are. That show up in this list. I will note again, the benefits. Many cities do provide for benefits. There are a few that expressly do not. But probably the majority of the cities do also provide. Benefits as does Santa Rosa. Next slide. I ask a question. Sure. Is the city of Santa Rosa employee would be getting. Yes. Okay. Thank you. And that's the common in the other cities as well is that if. Not entirely, there are some cities that are a little bit different. But in most cities, if they're going to give health benefits or health and retirement benefits, they will be the same as is given to other employees. Again, some exceptions in some cities, but. Any other questions on Miller. Has any thought been given to. Comparing the cost of living Santa Rosa. And as has been it. I've heard people complain about it being so expensive to live here. So many people have either. Move or many people would like to come here and can. So is that been considered. The. Hasn't been specific. I haven't seen that specifically considered in other cities other than to the extent of. Both in San Diego and in. Berkeley in there in passing their ballot measures. I did emphasize the cost of living in both of those locations and the increase in cost of living. Since the last salary adjustment. I think that's a good point. I think that the city's list for Santa Rosa uses for employees. It is, has been subject to some. Criticism because it does draw from some of the cities that are right central in the Bay area. Which may have even a higher, higher cost of living than even in Santa Rosa. But that, that list of cities was developed. I think that's a good point. I think that. What are comparable in terms of cost of living, but what are comparable in terms of cities that provide similar services to Santa Rosa. We are a full service. City. And so, you know, I was looking to compare those. Cities that have that diverse. Service range. Committee members will go ahead and take more questions now. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point to make their comments. And then we'll come back for discussion. So, so right now we're just doing questions. And Chris, you have your hand up. Yes. Thank you. Sue. Thanks. Very helpful. Regarding the experience. I'm wondering. Since we have, I guess, decades of experience throughout the state. With some. Cities that have. Paid more paid less. Any type of conclusion or information. Do cities that pay more find a more diverse field of candidates or electeds. Or a different level of quality of governance is very. Anything. Any information we have on that. We have not been able to find any good. Data on that. We are continuing to look. At the end of the day. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point for today's meeting is that you will. Hopefully the committee can give us direction. We'll go back and do some drafting. We will continue to try to find some of that data. And bring back whatever we find. It's, it's, it's difficult. You know, what we're seeing is. A lot of. Issues of diversity. The level of diversity on the city council is often tied to the level of diversity on the city council. So. So a little hard. You know, what we've been looking for is, is there a difference? If you've increased the salaries. Have you seen a difference in who's able to run? Who's able to afford. To take the time. To serve as council member or mayor. That's what we were really looking for. And that's what we have not really been able to. To grab hold of. Event. We've been trying to figure out how to do that. We've been trying to figure out making the income too high to a point where other people of color will not be able to participate in this process. Because you're going to have. Higher caliber of people coming to run for the city council. So that is a great concern for me. I want to make sure that we do increase the income. But I also want to make sure that we have. A lot of people who are not able to participate in this process. And then the second thing I'll question I have was for many of these cities, some of these cities. Do not have seven council members, they have five. And so if we can get a little bit more data and how many council members they have. That would help with some of the calculations. Moving forward. And then. One of my other concerns I have is increasing. The number of people who are not able to participate in this process. I don't know how much that it would affect our budget. So if we have any data or any information in regards to, what would that look like when we do the increase in relation to our city's budget. And so, you know, there are times when we go through troubles here and then we're laying off people. And staff members. So. Can we get some information or data in relation to that? I don't want to, you know. I have a little bit of a question here. I just want to fill in. And I'll just tell them all of a sudden we got to keep the council members income intact, but then we got to let staff go in the city and those staff members are important for the running on the city. So I definitely want to see some data if anything. You know, in regards to those, those things, those issues I have. Yes. And thank you. And if I, if I can give some quick, quick responses to. candidates and I put that in air quotes came from the language of the articles of a statement of some person. I do not want to suggest in any way that from my perspective you know what we're shooting to me that I hesitated to even raise the city of San Diego example because that's not what we're trying to do here what we're trying to do here is to increase diversity to make it possible for more people to serve as council members or to serve as mayor. We're not looking as a lawyer I can certainly say we're certainly not looking for lawyers or high-income people to be able to run or want to run what we're looking for is to open up the possibility to people who don't have that wealth and have found it hard to carve out time to participate so I just wanted I just wanted to say that so and then in terms of the budget yes I think once we get some direction from you as to you know where we want to go we'll certainly look at the budget and the impact that it might have on budget. I'll note in Berkeley they their arguments in favor of measure JJ did note that the increase in the council member salaries was going to result in only a 0.06 percent of the city's total budget so in San Diego on the other hand with a new increase last year at a time of COVID you know it was very much that concern and that was what was in the papers was the concern of you're having to lay people off and yet you're giving these very significant increases to council members so again depending on how you know what direction we get we'll certainly have that in mind so also you mentioned the number of council members also I want to relate it to that this is going to be also tied with your discussion of an at-large mayor are you going to be looking to have an at-large full-time mayor is it going to be a part still a part-time mayor part-time kind of an air quotes so there's going to be a number of moving parts that we'll be putting together as we as we draft language ballot numbers so thank you karen uh thank you i have a couple of questions and one related to the benefits the dollar amount that's listed for the council members and the mayor that's not total compensation including benefits it's just the salary is that correct sue that's sorry on on all of those it's just sorry and not uh not benefits okay thank you and then my second question has to do and I can't remember if I asked this last time and if I did forgive me why and maybe uh Scott or Ernesto could answer this why has the council never increased their salary um was it optics because of the time that the you know that city was going through other layoffs in 08 and other times um and so that's a that's a question I have and then um if an increase was set by ordinance could the council um not act on that ordinance if there was a you know if there was layoffs elsewhere in the city or you know budget cuts salary cuts could they say we're not going to go forward with this annual increase that was established by the charter or ordinance uh yes certainly and and um again I'll I'll turn back to the Berkeley measure and to the San Diego measure on San Diego uh apparently there was at least one council member or more that declined the increase uh even though it was allowed and the measure JJ and Berkeley um specifically provides that if um I'll get that language if there if the city and employee organizations agree to amend compensation to reduce costs of employees that same will apply to the mayor and city and the council members and yes even if we set aside kind of the charter amendment or a voter approved if the council uh set by ordinance um the the increase is allowed under state law anyone a council member could decline to take that donated uh or donate it so and as to the question of why um why the council hasn't moved forward on that um you know it's my sense that it is difficult uh from an optics perspective so but the former council members can certainly weigh in as well um Scott you want to make a comment on that you just raised your hand yeah I was going to say you know and Ernesto can chime in to my knowledge we never at least when I was on council it was never ever even discussed um yeah I'm sure optics is a part of it but but it never came up in any of the budget discussions even the initial ones yeah I mean you think of the big picture $40 every a year is not much but we never discussed it and Ernesto maybe can confirm that that that was the case in my 12 year at the council as well we've never discussed any salary increase yeah the other thing um it's when I came on council in 2010 it was $800 I don't know Ernesto when you came on was it the rise at all and you were there uh I don't think there's been any changes uh at the time that I was there yeah I'm just here because I think it's a lot more than the 10 years yes it's quite possible there's more than 10 years uh 10 years uh uh when I was looking at when did uh when did Santa Rosa pass the $150,000 mark so in population okay and we we can bring back the specific date we can drill down and maybe it's maybe it's been significantly longer than that so I have that too oh you do okay great yes the council compensation was adopted by ordinance and on September 13th 2005 establishing $800 a month for council and $1200 a month for the mayor so it has not been changed since 2005 so we can so the council could could change it by 17 years and thank you for that clarification well Logan thanks Patty so a few questions for you um so we are tied to state law was that an ordinance that did that or a voter ballot measure uh that was that's in the charter so it was approved by the voters uh at some point I don't know how long that has been in the charter so I don't know at which point it was uh it was there obviously before 2002 okay and we could put a ballot measure on the ballot that basically just disentangles us from state law right that's I could just say yes or no do you want to disentangle basically to the voter you would need to the voters will need to decide not just simply we're not going to follow us we're not going to be tied to state law they'll need to have a substitute of how how will compensation be determined that doesn't they don't have the voters don't have to set a dollar amount but have to at least set some uh the voters could simply say it's salary will be set by ordinance period yeah and okay and so there could be you could disentangle and then also say set up a commission with basically no very little guidance like it's on the commission then to make the amount could it work that way too uh yes it could and the the three cities um that have commissions that I that I looked at I'm sorry for four cities that have commissions um they they varied some had almost no guidance just to what whatever is reasonable um some uh you know one two of two of those four tied it to either cpi or to uh city managers compensation or superior court judge compensation so four median income okay and if since that commission's set up by the voters they can make whatever amount they want right it doesn't have to be set in those uh parameters set by state law right okay got it yeah okay um and just kind of on more of a general question you know can we bundle things together I guess on the ballot I mean I know there's legal restrictions on that so maybe explain briefly like if we're gonna we if we were to make a ballot measure that said we're not tangled with state law anymore we're disentangling and we're making a commission could that be one these have to be separate items on the ballot no each each of the ballot measures will be a single topic and um but that's all one topic so it can do both we're we're we're we're gonna establish a commission to establish salaries councilmember salaries okay I think that's it for my question thank you yeah Ryan yeah um it's what a good reason to increase the diversity is that different taxpayers have different priorities and in the aggregate I would expect that people in different households if we look at household income um the the levels of household income uh will determine to some degree what people's priorities are going to be so somebody with the household income of $30,000 would have a different set of priorities from somebody who is maybe more capable of being on the board uh on the commission uh with an household income of $150,000 so I think that some people and that that has to do with uh some people can have to work have to have a separate employment and uh some people can you know take one dollar a year um so is there any way of knowing historically um how the income has has impacted the ability of people to be able to serve on the uh council and is there any way of knowing um how many people even on the board now or or historically have had uh jobs that were full-time part or part-time that does that that will that will affect who can participate in the city council correct and and that is uh data that we've been trying to um trying to get that's a little hard to get uh but certainly uh because part of it is who is not stepping forward to run because they can't afford it and I think if we look historically we currently our current council has a number of people who work full-time in other jobs and it is difficult for them in terms of taking the time off work for council meetings for subcommittee meetings and so forth um but I I don't have the specific information that that that you are suggesting so another part of that is um for currently and historically um how many hours a week have people in the different positions mayor and other council members have have been a how many hours a week have the experience that they need to work to serve for the city yeah I don't have that data but I think we could um you know we could get some estimates at least from well from from current council members and from past council members uh the hours that have been required thank you event you have another question yes I just have a clarifying question for the data points that we have um the comment you made a comment about the benefits um being separate so for all the information that we have the benefits are not included in the annual um price correct um annual income correct that's that's listed on the on the charts um the the salaries do not include the value of the benefits okay and is it possible to get that number okay yes yes we can get that those numbers well we can we can get those numbers for san rosa we can get those numbers for some of the other jurisdictions it would be hard to get uh all of that um for all of the jurisdictions um the value also does uh vary um because health the health the value of the health benefit varies whether it's a single person or a person with a with a family um but we do have that information for yeah just need some comparables and so that's why I want I want to see those values thank you sure Annie um yes um um this is more of your experience and your opinion so obviously Berkeley went up by a huge amount and I think that if we were to put something like that on the ballot that it would not pass what do you think is a percentage that could possibly pass um and I know that's just this is just your opinion but we don't want to put it on there and then just have it fail because it's it's reaching too far um well thank you for the question I'm going to decline to estimate estimate what what might pass um I'm not a pollster I don't have that um that expertise but I I'll I'll just emphasize the council will likely do polling the council can also adjust if if if the committee decides a certain dollar amount uh council is will be free to adjust that after polling if it's so desires um and I and I'll say again though that this is a good strong committee um with folks from a variety of backgrounds a variety of experiences and you know among you you'll be able you know you'll have a good sense of you know what seems reasonable to you what would be reasonable to an appropriate compensation for council members that you would you would be able to to explain and to your friends and to other members of the community thank you oh lisa uh thank you chair sisco I'm sorry if I missed it um right now the I believe the board of supervisors salaries are tied to the uh the judges but it's not a straight over 100 percent is it or is there a calculation or a percentage in there um I don't you know I don't know I know that they were originally set tied to the judges salaries and I don't know whether they increase with the judges salary um but I'll I'll look into that and I don't know I don't know if Rob knows that off top of his head so don't sue but I'll find out okay thanks Karen you have another question I do sorry um I want to go back to Sue's um response to Annie about the polling um so I just want to make sure I'm clear so the process is we come up with recommendations to the council and in the meantime the council is doing some polling and so they could adjust the recommendations that we've provided to them based upon the results of the polling correct okay thank you yeah and and the and the timing of the polling will you will depend on what you know how the council wants to do it we'll be starting to report at the not next week's meeting but the following meeting we're going to start reporting out as to what's happening with the charter review committee and what and so you know that might trigger some some actions on the part of the council as well so in terms of polling any other questions before I move to public comment okay not seeing any um with that I'll go ahead and uh ask for the public comment if you are watching by zoom use the raised hand feature so you can be recognized if you're dialing in by phone dial star nine and with that I'll open public comment on this item for council compensation and chair sysco I'm not seeing any raised hands okay great thanks so I'm going to go ahead and bring it back to the committee and um go into our uh discussion phase um just want to set a couple of ground rules I mean obviously we're applying the lens that we've been working on for equity um we also were given at the beginning of our first meeting the the council policies regarding stability I don't think that'll be an issue here but everybody remember that we're being respectful of each other's comments um also be respectful of the time that you take uh we want to be able to hear from everybody um and so you know to be uh court sort of um compiling your comments with uh the recommendation questions that sue gave us first of all do we want to recommend that uh the council put in the charter the increase and if so um how would we how would we go about doing that setting it etc so what your thoughts are on that would be a great beginning to our discussion from each person so um with that I'm going to go ahead and open our time for discussion and so who would like to start don't everybody jump in there at once okay good all right now I'm seeing it okay okay Logan how about you okay I'll kick it off um I'm not a pollster but I do politics for a living and um can't predict the future but I have a feeling that having an exact number might not be the best way to do this I think that that could become kind of a lightning rod for controversy and then we might lose focus on the why you know that's the that's the what of the ballot measure basically so we need to tell that story of how much work these folks do that it's a full-time job and I worry that if we make it you know 50 000 or 75 000 or whatever you know nice round number we might land on that that could become too much of the focus now just let me to disagree with myself I also think it'd be easier to explain like Sue said you know if you're going out to the average person saying pay the council 50 grand a year is really easy to say but I also don't know that from a policy perspective that a big round number really gets us where we want to go in getting us a diverse a more diverse council so uh I'm not I'm leaning towards doing an area median income type calculation and I think to make that oh can you still hear me okay um yeah we can now better oh patty that might be on your end um you're calling the only one okay sorry yeah anyways so I think that area median income or something like that's a better way to go I think that maybe it could be like 50 percent of area median income because I agree that 92 000 is probably too much to ask people and then on throughout another thought a resident said something smart to me and that people aren't going to pay money for something they're getting for free already so they already get the council that they get now so we need to restructure it in some way and I think that that might be a different ballot measure and that's sort of where I was going through with part of my question and you know one idea that that person had was term limits so maybe you sort of guard against that cynicism that people have that oh is just going to be a way for people to make money for 20 years of their life maybe we set up eight or 12 year max so just throwing out those ideas for folks I think we need to readjust the way people think about the council and also I think an even dollar amount would be that type of lightning rod so those are my thoughts love to hear from everyone else okay thanks Logan how about you Scott sorry my fingers don't move fast enough on the iPad I think a lot of what Logan just said makes sense I think one of the issues pardon me for a moment one of the issues that I can speak from experience because I do have a full time job I did have a full time job when I was on council being a council member is less working being mayor being mayor is a 40 hour a week job at least and when you have another 40 hour job mildly saving grace as someone who thought he could prove that you can work can have a job and work part time on council is that I had a very understanding business partner who picked up the slack because I couldn't have done it otherwise so I think an adjustment is is right but Logan made the comment and I think he's has a good point about it's a broader issue because the whole point of this is to increase diversity and representation on council well everybody out there unless you're retired has a job has a career and it's a big week to say okay I am going to jump and run for office and well I'll have a job for four years and it'll pay whatever but then what happens to my regular job and what happens if I don't get reelected term limits I think is an interesting concept but then you're asking somebody well yeah you're going to four years or eight years and then you're kind of off to whatever it's a that's conundrum and I don't know that that we're going to solve it with compensation it's got to be a more comprehensive look I do think Logan's point of you know picking a percentage of the median income and is probably a smart way of going to try and sell it because we do need to increase compensation I guess my point is I just don't think it's going to be the the the solution to the issue that I that won't solve all the problems it'll make the burden a little easier to carry I think we need to do it um Chris yes thanks um I'm I guess I'm a little concerned with what the rationale is that we're using you know I think each one of us might have our own feelings as to whether it should be increased in what's fair and so on but you know with different feelings about the problems that we're looking to address but without evidence out there as to what works we're all kind of guessing as if you want to increase diversity does it do it and if so how much do you pay to increase diversity so I'm a little concerned about that as we discuss things and reach a decision in terms of increasing my initial sense is that you compare apples to apples and city council people are basically executives and so to compare them to executive city staff for me at least have some common sense appeal because you're saying that's that's the value where you decided what the value of that work is so some percentage of whether it's a city manager assistant or some blend with a cost you know a cap with a cost of living increase or rather cap so that it doesn't go out of control um we'll have to consider what the mayor does and I'm inclined uh disinclined for commission uh because that seems to be just having a politically appointed body every two years whatever year it is that will have whatever level of trust or distrust the community has to begin with it's just like punting the issue so I would think when we make a decision to make a decision and to to set it thanks event yes um I like to say uh what San Diego did with the attaching it to the judicial system absolutely now I don't think you should do anything like that I feel like that will bankrupt the city and then um in relation to maybe doing the medium I kind of agree with that um taking the medium but it there's a lot that's surrounding that because in relation to an elected mayor versus not having an elected mayor would make would change my decision in how we move forward compensation so I kind of need to I think we kind of need to have that conversation along with compensation about elected mayor and not elected mayor because that definitely will play a lot into how I make my decision in relation to calculations and things of that nature and then um one of the things that would probably uh be a big um thing for people of color or someone that may you know not make a lot in the community is health care so they may opt to have more health care they might want to have their entire family covered and maybe take less paid because they want to have health insurance so those are some of the things we need to take a look at when we're thinking about this because health care honestly is very expensive so they may say I opt to have the health care and pay me less so those are some things that might be something that people in low income areas may may want to have part of their package and so maybe having it you know a discussion and have a couple options available to the possible you know um city council members and what they would like their package to look like and I know that's open in a kind of worms but I think it needs to be more directed to whoever gets on council what does that look like for that person because that's true DEI right there is having that conversation with whoever just um was able to win and have that conversation and say okay what would what would your package look like so I'm just throwing that out there because it does make a difference in who we're going to get and the caliber of people we're going to get to be able to run and we want people to have a heart for the city not to bankrupt us so if we have people that have a heart for the city they may take some other form of compensation in order to be a council member thanks Yvette uh Ron I think that this is going to be a difficult one we haven't talked about it but uh the structure of the family is going to make a difference and who can join the uh council uh a single parent with four children versus uh two uh working adults with uh old college students and and two retired people are going to have different set of priorities and and and all of their priorities are important and so we're going to as we go through this process to give some idea some some thought into um how are we restricting who can come on to the council or etc so that's something we have to consider thanks Ron um Jen thanks um I have several comments I want to start by agreeing with um Yvette that I think that the conversation around um elected mayors from mayor model really should be part of this discussion I think it does influence um and and then I and then I want to say I agree with Logan that this should be based on AMI um and and I think that for for many reasons but um most of all I think that we should be focusing on creating a defensible rationale rather than what's electable at this point if we should create a rationale that is aspirational and aligns with the city's values aligns with our values um and if polling needs to adjust that later that's okay but so far I think that you know the city has has um stated it has a strong um equity ethic I think this group has stated the same um and so I think that should be top of mind we're we're talking about a rationale and it should be a rationale that makes sense um which is why not at all interested in looking at other cities without knowing the specific history behind them first of all like mathematically the standard deviation of those numbers is enormous which makes the you know any comparison somewhat ridiculous um and then just the political nature of it and historical nature of it I think those numbers don't mean anything unless we know exactly how we got there so it makes more sense to me for us this is a group that is a thoughtful group to come up with our own rationale and one that makes sense um comparing to judges I don't even know where they started that I think that makes no sense and not even worth getting into um talking fast because I have a lot of comments here um so I do think that this should be reflective of the average income in the city um that would you know reflect the overall prosperity of the city whether that is going up or going down to some degree um it it makes you somewhat um reflective of of the common of the average person um and but when I say it should be reflective of the AMI or based on the AMI I'm saying it should be at least 100% AMI and the reason for that is that unless you are paying someone with the family a living wage then we are not addressing the issue of equity it's just sort of a de facto volunteer job and it might or it's giving someone who is already of of good means just more money in their pocket and somebody who isn't it's just keeping them poor so if you're paying someone 50 60 percent AMI they are housing cost burden they can barely it make ends meet or they're still working two jobs or they can't take the risk to run so it's not going to address the issue of diversity um we either want to address that issue and do something to change it or it's almost not worth doing um I think that you know paying someone and this is just the average right the average median income also you know treats people like professionals um it respects the risk that they're taking by running um respects the fact that there's a lack of stability in the position um and that it's very public and and very difficult in that way sometimes and it also allows us as uh as voters to hold electives accountable for making this a professional full-time job we want you to do it that way um as for the evidence you know Chris brought up whether or not there's evidence that this you know deals with our problem I think it's way too soon to say the sample size is too low the length of time that people do doing this is too low there's just I I don't think there's an opportunity to have the evidence I would love to make a evidence-based decision but I think it's too too soon and I think the reason it's too soon is because this making local elected positions volunteer positions is like the ultimate example of structural inequity if not structural racism in our in our society and so if we don't you know address that and recognize that and change it in a real way not just um it can't just be a nod to it or then we're not going to make a difference so those are my thoughts and um thank you. Thanks Jim Ernesto. Thank you Madam Chair uh I would have to say that in my 12 years at the council uh the roles and responsibilities of the of the council members have changed dramatically they continue to change this is not the council the duties and responsibilities that we had years ago even back in 2005 when the last salary was was set uh and you know the role the council members go beyond was on the agenda it's gotten bigger and but we've also made a lot of progress we made some big steps with diversity and inclusion and moving towards our district district collections for example council compensation to be one more of those steps and moving to that direction too and I do agree that the AMIs are a good place to start to look at that and not going low I mean given the council the flexibility and move forward to examine what what they feel might be workable out there with the community but clearly no no one should be put in a position of having to be in a position of giving themselves a raise that's awkward position for anybody yet you know we're we're here for the people for the for our residents for the voters we're accountable to them every four years I think that's already in place but I also believe that the expectations of our community have been increased as well the the things that we do or have become more and more complex you know dealing now with our homeless issues and so many other social issues that we deal with as council members that has changed so one of the things that we do have to do moving forward is make sure that we tell the story because there are a lot of stories out there to be told by those who have served those who are currently served those who didn't serve because they chose not to and understanding why they didn't do that you know dealing with issues related to child care, elder care there's just so many other factors that come into play the information that SUE provided related to the cities that's good information to look at but then again we come back to the uniqueness of our own community and what we want and what we expect from our council members so I do agree with with prior comments about the AMI I don't have a set number and I am intrigued by by going high and having some flexibility to go low because I think it will go too low I can't see our council members currently say well I don't like that we're going to go higher than what you recommended again I don't want to put them in that position so but I also agree that this is also tied into the future conversation about a direct directly elected mayor and then going back to the duties and responsibilities the other thing that has changed with district elections is that there's also more engagement now at that level too within your district so it's not just the mayor you're not just talking about the entire council but I think that you know council members and Scott can speak to this too regardless of whether it was something that was really an issue with that to the city you were there for your constituents to listen to them when they called you listen and that's the next big phase that I think our community has so I don't think that's going to change so I like the direction that we are heading in and again I just wanted to add my two cents in supporting some conversation related to AMI. Great um Jasmin thank you chairs let's go um I am also in agreement that um AMI would be a good place to um a good measure to determine future council member compensation and and you know I think the narratives of the council members present and past are very important in being able to describe and illustrate the work um that is you know that is um done you know the extra work and and um you know I also sympathize or empathize um with the notion that it is a difficult position to be in right to vote to raise your own salary and um you know one of the reasons that may have um been why it hasn't been done before right the optics and I wonder if um there is possibility that um the if the measure were to pass to um implement council salary if there could be an implementation date of post the next election right that it wouldn't go it wouldn't actually apply to the electeds that are you know making this or or you know unless they're elected again or even until somebody else is elected for that position um and because it's part of the charter review I wonder if it's bound by like charter review rules or if it could be part of the measure Karen you have another comment yeah a couple um I would like to ensue I'm sorry this is more work for you guys um what is the average salary of the city of city employees not the lowest not the highest but the average I'd like to see that um I think that might be a guide um rather than the AMI of the general population in Santa Rosa um I would not be in favor of any kind of a commission I think that's just kicking the can down the road as the saying goes um and also I agree with those who spoke about um that this is really a discussion also tied to the directly elected mayor so I'm not sure if we can come to any kind of a conclusion on this uh until we have that discussion thank you Ron this is long-term thinking but each one we're going to have an election we get these booklets that describe the pros and cons of different positions we're going to need to be able to in a very short period of uh short a small area uh in those booklets how we justify what we're recommending so that uh so that the voters can decide you know that's a good idea and this is why we are to oppose it or um approve it okay Adriana hi um at the risk of not sounding repetitive I'm just gonna be very succinct I think um I agree with um most of the points that have been discussed here um specifically with the use of a calculation method such as that annual median income which I presume that's what we're referring to when we're using the acronym AMI um and and also for there to be more discussion around even having term limits around that I know um that's something that Logan brought up and I I I actually agree with being intentional about that for several reasons one of them is that it also promotes actually movement and diversity in the council um and for folks not to be elected forever and ever just because they're incumbents for example so movement promotes that kind of growth um and just to take it a little step back um I just wanted to clarify a little bit on um our own let's see the equity um our our equity principles that we just reviewed earlier today I presume that they apply only to this um charter or this charter committee not for the entire city of Santa Rosa and just um and the the reason I'm bringing this up is just from that perspective and one of the principles and to make sure that we all have access here because we're all different um to just be mindful of the amount of acronyms that we use because that also can become an issue and just to be mindful to just explain in you simple language if at all possible that's all thank you um I would just make that comment that you know I was on the charter review committee 10 years ago and we were taking a look then at at the potential of district elections and you know which ultimately the voters turned down but one of the difficulties was you know the the reasons for promoting district elections was a lot of the members talked about the cost of campaigning that that would bring down the cost of campaigning and have sort of average our neighbor be able to campaign and actually gain a seat on the city council but a bigger concern certainly for me was what's the cost of serving because you know the some districts definitely are more impoverished than others and and so I'm very much in favor of making some kind of adjustment I like the the attachment to the median income as well and I think I'm generally hearing a consensus in that direction to explore that as our you know in trying to answer your questions sue to give give you a direction um but I'm also hearing that we might not be able to get to a complete direction tonight on this item because we want to be including information on the directly elected mayor so what what are you thinking about kind of where we are so far and what do we need to do that would be helpful to you but not I don't think we're going to reach our goal tonight of having an actual complete direction for you no this is this has been very helpful and yes I'm also hearing that consensus about a tie to AMI and also a consensus on we need to be looking at the direct elect mayor issue as well and in fact as I think you and I or I mentioned to you the other day the direct elect mayor issue will be the next next item that we take up so starting at our next meeting we'll be bringing some information to you about direct elect mayors you might notice on the charts that we provided we also included whether they're charter cities and then whether they have a direct elect mayor and that was interesting to me that really large majority of the cities do have a direct elect mayor so we'll be bringing that starting next week and again would anticipate two meetings to be talking about that in the meantime we can also be starting to look at some options for how we draft a council compensation that addresses that somehow tied to AMI and that also addresses benefits I've heard that from a couple of council committee members and we'll give you options and we'll give you the dollar amounts we'll provide the chart that we have for for the median income you know at different levels what that would translate to and I think that'll be helpful for the committee as well so what we'll be doing is for next meeting we'll start the discussion on the direct elect mayor and we will start I don't know whether we'll be providing the information to you on some of the just the background information for connection to AMI but some options of how we might word that how we might tie it either to a percentage you know whether it's a hundred percent or something less how we might how we might link that so we'll provide you with some options and maybe we can talk about whether we want to bring that all I'm what I'm thinking is we may want to wait and bring all of that together after we've had the discussion about the direct elect mayor and then we can be bringing some options kind of as a package on those two those two issues well that that's what I'm hearing from the members is they really they really need that information about what our direction might be for a directly elected mayor in order to fully decide this particular one so if that works then I think that's a good plan yes I have to do that I know the other this I'll just ask for some clarification I also was hearing several people mentioned term limits and that was term limits were not on the council's list of items but certainly the council also anticipated that items might come up through the committee and is that something that you want us to begin to to look at as well as a committee or is it still a little premature to go there um committee members can you uh I guess do a thumbs up as to whether or not it's a little premature where where you want to take a look at that or not it's a pretty big item is a thumbs up premature or not is that what's the question I would let's start with premature and go from there okay okay so we've got one two three four five oops I just lost everybody okay so so it's looking to me as I get premature and but but we'll get we're gonna keep that um in mind but definitely want to be seeing how do we marry the discussion of council compensation along with the discussion of a directly elected mayor because it does change kind of everything so um does that feel like you got what you need to uh yes um I feel committee members any patty this last for a second oh I have another question um okay is is it possible to get the um um median salary of city employees because I think that would be um I know that it seems like the overall um sentiment is AMI but I would be interested to see what the city employee average income is thank you to have that comparison yeah and we can get that thank you okay and just mean thank you um yeah I was also wondering um if attorney Gallagher can look into um whether implementation has to be immediately upon adoption of a council member compensation or whether the measure can stipulate otherwise and then um I was also thinking that it actually might be useful to think about um term limits maybe not for the whole council but while we're considering directly elected mayor like whether that position would be um would have term limits and maybe this isn't like an item we take on as like you know ask the staff or report or something like that but just like have it as a consideration um I don't know that was just a thought thank you and very quickly respond yes um there is flexibility in terms of implementation date um and in fact the um yeah so we'll bring forward once we come back after we've talked about direct elect mayor we'll come back when we're giving options as to effective dates as well so um and then you know we can talk some more later about term limits so and it's interesting to note that the currently there are limits uh for mayor uh and for vice mayor in the uh in the existing charter so not term limits to be on council but term limits as to how long you can be mayor consecutively so can I make a quick point sir go ahead just term limits was one item that was suggested to me and just my point was that we need to you know reset the way people think about the job and I think that that's one way we could do it and so I would encourage all the other committee members to think about ways that a voter would think about this in a new way or see it in a new light so that was that was where I was going with that it was just one way to do that okay uh Ron you have another question I would like to know what are the responsibilities of the council members and the mayor so that we can I mean what are they doing uh that that takes their time up okay Adriana I want to just tell on what Logan said uh just a little bit ago about thinking about the job and what we're doing in this different way as we are trying to employ and embed equity into the work that we're doing and this actually also speaks to something that Jen said earlier today is that there may be not any evidence and that us basing ourselves on what has been done in the past is kind of like the cycle of insanity right we continue to reap the same patterns so I think it's very important to just think about that when we're thinking in a framework of equity and we're thinking about about evidence based evidence based is from a framework of white institutions so we need to think that that is collected from that perspective and we don't necessarily have evidence for what the communities are already doing and for what we know so maybe we can be responsive and informed from listening to our the community voices but we just need to be cautious when we use evidence based or evidence informed practice not to say I am a clinician and I I really adhere to that but we just need to be very cautious as we're trying to think outside of the box and that's just my comment great thanks for that Adriana um any other comments before we close this item and you're good to go Sue with this item I am thank you very much okay all right so with that we no no item number five there are no committee chairs city attorneys reports is that correct that's correct from my perspective correct from mine we have no subcommittees any written or electronic communications from our host sorry we had no um no written communications okay more electronic and then um last but not least um which we do have to do a public comment on is future agenda items um do you want to just repeat what we're what we're doing next meeting sure the next meeting we will begin discussion um of uh direct elect mayor um that will be our primary element we do still have the standing um item on equity principles we will continue that so okay great uh so with that we do have to take public comment oops sorry I'm sorry go ahead Ryan sorry I missed you yeah I have a question on the um the direct elect mayor and maybe the chair and vice chair and staff can look into it but um if guest speakers are appropriate it'd be a stream to hear from a an ex elected mayor uh Petaluma's got three or four of them uh I'm sure there's others that you know through maybe the city attorney's network but uh I'd sure like to hear from someone been there done that the pluses and minuses um that isn't a current sitting one that may have a little bias to it so just a suggestion I'll leave it up to the chairs and staff to determine if we should invite somebody and who that might be thank you yeah great that's actually something we've been talking about is is very important so thanks for that um uh Logan yeah I just didn't respond to that I think a guest speaker's fine but I want us to just keep in mind we're not anything like Petaluma and I think Jen kind of made that point looking at all those different data points among the different cities it's such a wide discrepancy and I just in my own personal pet peeve I hate when we get compared to other cities in Sonoma County um because we're just on a totally different scale and the mayor of Petaluma does have a bigger job than the rest of the council so I think it's fair to kind of ask them in that way you know what is your job like but I just I want to caution us to not you know talk to the mayor of like some other smaller city I just I just get frustrated when we use that frame to look at our city so that's all okay Chris thanks I'm wondering when the preparation is being done for the elected mayor what combinations of that we're looking at uh a mayor that votes on the council or a mayor that doesn't vote uh reducing number of uh districts from seven to six or not um so I'm just kind of wondering if the different combinations would be presented and Annie just real quickly to what Logan was speaking about we do have Tom Schwedhelm who's been our mayor who is an outgoing city council member so he may be able to speak about Santa Rosa and what the responsibilities were great idea uh Jen sorry it takes me so long to unmute um just along lines if we're going to have mayors talk who've been in the strong mayor position I think it would be interesting to have if it's possible to find a counterpart city manager I think you know that's one of the challenges in in city elected offices is sort of the tension between city manager and staff and and um city council don't need to challenge in it or tension in an adversarial sense but um the push pull of responsibility so I would think that that would be an interesting thing to hear more about since we haven't experienced that here great thanks Anna Rosa food for thought um is there a possibility since we're throwing names out there that we could possibly bring in Mr Chris Korsky since he does have since he was prior mayor and he has relations as a county employee as of today I believe okay and anyone else wanting to make a comment or throughout a suggestion not seeing anybody so um with that I'll go ahead and open up uh item eight future agenda items to our members of the public again if you're participating by zoom use the raised hand feature uh if you're dialing in by phone use star nine and I will ask our host if we have any other speakers um chair Cisco I'm not seeing any raised hands okay thank you um um well thank you all for your very thoughtful uh comments and participation um and uh I'll go ahead and adjourn tonight's meeting and uh we will reconvene on what's our date the night the 19th sorry whatever our next regularly scheduled meeting is would be the it is 19th it is the 19th okay good to be sure so all right good night everybody thank you good night