 Awesome. And we are live. Hi, everyone. Thanks for joining. Thanks for watching. If you're watching live, thank you. We're streaming to LinkedIn, YouTube, Facebook, and we're even doing Twitch, although I'm not sure how many people are watching on Twitch, but you never know. So if you are watching on Twitch, just drop me a little note. Thank you also if you're watching after the event as well. Really appreciate it. So today, it's great to be joined by a really old friend, Matt Jaffa. Hey, Matt. How are you doing? How are you doing? Good. You? All right. Not too bad. It's not too bad as well. Thank you. You're looking great, mate. We used to, just the context, we both used to live together. We went to the same uni and we lived together in our second year at uni and we're still speaking barely, which is probably a good sign. That's great. It's like 25 years ago or something crazy. 20, 21 years ago, unbelievable. Wow. So much has happened, even in this year, so much has happened. So you're at the Federation of Small Businesses? I am. I've been here now, coming out to 15 years working at the FSB, so supporting small businesses that self-employed. And yeah, this has been really the most challenging year for our members. So it's not to talk about, but it's, yeah, it's incredible. Do you think more than the financial crisis? Oh, definitely, definitely. I mean, that was, in a way, it was kind of, because it happened before and businesses had gone through it in the 90s and stuff like that. I think there was kind of a precedent, but this, this is just unprecedented. And it's the kind of the uncertain, the constant uncertainty that has really been the hardest thing for our members. And just hope that now, once we go open or we are going open, that we stay open. That is, that's the critical message from our members, really. Yeah, yeah. So just to, for context then, so the Federation of Small Businesses, your lobbying government on behalf of your members, which are micro and small businesses? Yeah. I mean, we, so we represent traditionally, small businesses defined as less than 50. We've got some who are above that as well, but we provide a kind of a suite of member benefits, like free legal advice, tax investigation protection. So those kind of bolt on membership offers, but traditionally, or ultimately we were set up in 1974 as a lobbying group for the issue of national insurance contribution, and that is what we do. We lobby national local government, regional government at EU level, international level. Of course today is kind of a prime example. We've got the mayor elections and elections, elections right across the country. You know, and that's what we do. We are there to try and influence those who are currently in position, but those who are up for election as well. So that when they come into office or they, they take up positions in different levels, that they are aware of who we are, and they can bang the drum for small businesses. Yeah. What's, what's going on with the London mayor elections at the moment? Well, I mean, the poll, the poll that we've opened at seven o'clock this morning was a couple of hours ago. I can't talk about it too much. Any other, any other day I could have gone into more vital detail about what I think this one, not that one, but I know it's, it's not. So we've got to keep going on this one. But yeah, I mean, it's, who knows what's going to happen. I don't think the actual vote will know who it's going to be until probably the weekend, maybe best part later in the weekend. But, you know, big issue for any new London mayor who ever takes up the post or stays in post. It's got to be a case that, you know, we are, it's there, you know, small businesses is front and center of the thinking so that we, you know, lift the spirit, open the economy and we come back safely. Definitely. And also after the Brexit staff and, and the whole thing, I mean, for me anyway, I feel like we really need to be open for business and the government, I mean, this last year, and maybe we can dive into this as well, have really felt like they've done all they can with the furlough scheme and all of this stuff. Why, like, why, why are small businesses so important to save? Like, are they, you know, in terms of like, do they represent like the largest employers in the UK? Or like, what's, what's the significance? The point being, you've got over 99% of all businesses across the UK are defined as a small business. And, you know, they are the ones who are the job creators, the innovators, creating wealth in our society and paying the high volume of taxes through business rates, through the AT, so national insurance contributions, all these things that go towards, you know, our public services and they are a vital part of that and they are the engine of the economy and so it's, it's, it can't stress how important it is not just for the person who runs the business, takes the, takes all the flak, takes all the stick and takes all the pressure with it, but also is, you know, creating jobs who are, you know, for people who are, you know, paying their rent, want to pay their mortgage and that's what, that embodies that small business person who is living with that, that stress on a day-to-day basis and it's so important that we support them, we don't hammer them with, with taxes, with regulation, with red tape and, and really help them grow and foster that innovative culture that we need in this time in particular. Definitely, definitely. So actually, 99% of businesses in the UK are classified as small businesses? To be prudently, 99.3% But you must... That's a lot. That's a, how much... It's more than you think and that's, that's the message we put across, you hear this term bounded across SMEs, you know, small, medium enterprises, it's, you know, 0.6% of the medium size, 99.3% of the small businesses and it's, it's just getting that message to government at all levels that you can't just have blanket policies that a suit of business has got one's member of staff or 249 members of staff, you've got to think, you know, how do you help a the smallest business, win a contract, get on the supply chain, rather than just thinking, oh gosh, they've got tons of people who are big writers, know how to do it and they can easily speak to the local authority and they can do this with lobbying, it just doesn't happen. They are the person that is dealing with the minutiae of running that business on a day-to-day basis and we need to be there to support them and find easier ways for them to navigate complex systems. Definitely. How do you think the government have done then this past year, being like the most difficult, difficult year for small businesses? Do you think they've given us enough support? Can I say us, because we're a small business? You're right. We really should have thought about this in recent days, it's really hard for me to comment on that one, so hopefully I'll try and just make it as bland as... What are your members, how about this then? What do your members feel like? Do they feel like they've had enough support this year? I think a lot of businesses would have, you know, there's been that kind of two sides of the coin, a lot of them would have taken up the furlough system, which has been a lifesaver for many businesses, you know, a lot would have taken up the employed income support scheme, but of course on the other side, you've got the excluded businesses, those that haven't been able to get support. There would be directors of company or whether they'd be at the time newly self-employed. So there's been, like anything, there's going to be, there's gaps within the models, but also a lot of businesses would have felt that lifeline. But also, there's grants, a lot of grants that have been made available. Our message around the elections today and the number one key thing is to get the grants out. Local authorities in particular have got grants for small businesses that they are distributing, whether or not you've been in the retail hospitality leisure sector, or whether you are in a sector that maybe was forced to stay open when you've had no custom, like, you know, the local dry cleaners, for instance, who would have maybe got 2% of their normal turnover. These businesses, you know, there's funds available, there's grants available, so it might kind of think about listening or knowing another business is just to get in touch with your local authority, find out what grants are still available and don't miss out, really. What grants? I thought you had the loans, which people need to start paying interest and paying back, I think, quite soon. You then had grants for rates, I think, for certain different industries. What's still available in case people don't know? Well, there are restart grants that are available, and they should either be automatic or you might have to apply for them, whether or not you are in a sector that was able to open on the 17th of May, or whether you've got to wait, so if you're open on the 12th of April, or whether you're on the 17th of May, there's a different, like, it's a 6,000 or part of grant up to mid-get, or 18,000 pounds if you were, you know, in, say, hospitality and you're not able to open before the 17th of May, so those are available to businesses, but there's also kind of additional restrictions grant as well, so counterfeit pots of money for different criteria, those who are maybe not in the retail, hospitality or leisure sectors who have been adversely affected or have not received any form of grant funding, whether they might have been in co-working spaces, for instance, and maybe the landlords got something but they didn't in that particular instance, so it's a case of looking at the ARG scheme is the one that I would do for a lot of businesses to look into within the council to see if they are they match the criteria and they can get some funding. Okay, cool. And I guess it could go to HMRC website maybe as well and check out some information on there. There will be an HMRC website but I think the main thing is to go on your council website. Your council will have every different stream of business support that's available and I think that's the area that businesses need to go to and it will show the criteria they have. But also things like the London business hub for instance, there's information on there regarding grants that may be a more regional level around peer-to-peer lending or other elements of support and funding available that is available. So it's important to do some research and look at these council regional websites as well. Definitely. Apart from all the money stuff it's also important to seek help with your I think the mindset a lot of business owners it's been the most crazy year. I speak to so many different people from different sectors, business owners and all of these things and a burnout has been such a key theme. And you don't have to realise it, you speak to people and to look at them maybe seem fine but the one thing I've really had to appreciate this year is everyone's going through their own journey, different challenges and you're going to get into your own worlds, don't you? You're doing your thing and it's been really useful for me to take a step back and just appreciate that people are going through different moments and stuff and I think for me running my business which is also a small business over this past year as well speaking to people seeking help being open with what you're going through and it's been really helpful and if you're a small business and you're in that scenario having a support network around you is so vital. I couldn't agree more in the first couple of months when we went into that initial lockdown I was speaking to businesses on every few hours the basis in terms of calling me up and it was that uncertainty not knowing where to turn gradually went on, it was more of a case just a kind of a voice to be able to have a council just to listen to their issue it's kind of a welcome, thanks for listening I didn't even help them for them just to air get it off their chest but it's that the level of uncertainty you're faced with as a business you're trying to get your business going but at the same time you're trying to do everything you can to support the NHS and face down this public health crisis but you don't know how you're going to be able to get your furloughed staff back into the business, you don't know if you'll be able to do it safely how can you make sure that your staff how their mental health is during this time it's just so many things and that pressure on a business owner, I mean not having been that person before but I've spoken to these businesses on a day to day basis it's so hard but it's also if we're being positive about it it's perspective as well in every crisis there's always a silver lining there's always learning opportunities and for me I'm a pretty positive guy I don't know maybe I'm just made up that way I do do a lot of stuff to try and keep myself positive but you can only do things that are within your control and something like a pandemic I mean what can you do not a huge amount and of course this is industry dependent I mean some industries did really bad and they closed down others have done unbelievably well I think Amazon hired God knows how many hundreds of thousands of people over the years so just like in famous small business Amazon famous bookshop what a great success to me who were kind of they kept the world going to their credit they were delivering parcels and because a lot of people were out working during this pandemic if you're fortunate enough to be a home worker which we both are many people don't have that luxury so it's important to appreciate that when you're thinking about going back to work and stuff because the delivery drivers NHS all of these people have done an amazing job but I think it's important to do stuff that you can control and so a lot of people were reactive the pandemic happens, lockdown your business has stopped and you're just reacting you're looking for loans you're looking to cut costs everyone went through that period and then you hear these words hustle, hustle, hustle I mean if there was ever a time to hustle 2020 was a time to hustle pivot their business and so now it feels like we're in the spot now where it's about being proactive it's like it's been a bad scenario but what can you do what are the things that you can put in place to get yourself back on track to start growing to start hiring and those kinds of things and it's the moment to do that now it also needs governments of all persuasion to recognise what you just said it's a lot of for instance our prime example is the supply chain businesses who want to bid for a contract they want to win, it could be in your sector it could be in the construction sector it could be anywhere but yet they are put off because there's too many barriers in the way it's too complex to navigate the systems so making it easier for businesses to do business get out of the way of making the barriers to growing are going to be key and there's lots of opportunities for instance there's always going to be people who are against Brexit and who are before Brexit but we are where we are now in case if you're looking to export how can you go and get on to the department for international trade website there's resources and support available there elements of funding as well if you're looking to export for the first time support in particular areas, new markets doing that element of learning or an area that you might not have experienced before could be a new way of getting on to different markets it's an element as you mentioned of that kind of proactivity that's going to be working businesses favour definitely, yeah definitely because if you're in that mindset now I've survived or I've gone through this whole thing then you're right there is this finance available this like government that can help also getting paid on time I think is quite a big one as well again if government can put these structures in place which maybe gives people a little bit of comfort that if I want to expand if I want to go international if I want to do these things I'm able to borrow money to do it I've got the support of government we need to be open for business now and I completely agree but also as you mentioned the issue of late payments this is the one that particular out chair Mike Cherry is his number one issue that he will continue to push on the need for big business in particular and local authorities and central government as well but mainly big businesses to pay their bills on time tens of billions of pounds are outstanding and that's money that's needed to pay staff it's needed to invest in a new piece of innovation machinery in the business and whilst they're waiting you're talking 60, 90, 120 days and more tens of thousands of pounds ratcheting up in the business you're not being paid all of a sudden you've got a debt crisis in the business and that's what needs to be recognised and also as a small business what are you going to say to your large supplier pay up now or I take my business your large business will simply lean on them and that's what we need to change this and make sure we have a full operating supply chain and large and small work much, much closer together and there's kind of an inherent understanding rather than this bullying that goes on in certain instances 100% the way people have behaved for this year good or bad people will remember and I mean if I think about my experience many of my clients have been amazing a lot have paid quicker than they did before and typically my clients are big listed companies or private equity banks and whatever but there's always somewhere they're like hey we're going through a tough time and we're not paying until and so they extended it there were one or two customers where they're like I'm really sorry we're going to have to extend the payment terms by a month or two or whatever and then your only answer is like okay cool can you pay us when you can but I think we're lucky because mostly the companies pay well but there's many people I speak to where also the chain as well if you're I know quite a few factory owners so I used to work in manufacturing as you know and I was speaking to the guy I still speak to the guy that owns some of them and he said you know he was making clothes supplying to people those firms went under he then wasn't getting the money there's a real quite intricacy sometimes with these things I hate the story some businesses will just all large businesses will not pay but then pay on day 120 something like that but pay a produced amount and just for the lovely privilege of me paying you within 120 days they take off 10% they knock off some of the amount they're supposed to be paying it's scandalous oh yeah it's scandalous it's completely scandalous some of the large companies they're like day late 10% off some of these retail and all these kind of different industries it's tough but pay on time behave properly and then we can start moving from this job retention stuff to creating jobs which is really the path forward I think and I think in particular all we need from governments is this element of job creation it has to be a relentless pursuit of this because a lot of businesses there will be businesses who have got pent up demand and would have sat on cash or would have done okay during the pandemic those are thinking particularly in like professional services IT related sectors who maybe want to take on more apprentices who want to take on other members of staff but yet there are incentives in place but are there ways that we can for instance reduce the level of national insurance that I'm taking another member of staff all these things that a business might find an incentive to doing so but at the same time training them as well we need to make sure that we are upskilling these professions at all ages because there's a tendency at a time to think the business just thinking about the short term aspect of keeping the business going but staff in particular need to be trained and need to be upskilled so that there's a line a chain moving forward that the business keeps going and grows as the business starts to recovery and back into growth as well so government needs to be particular areas can be critical I can't remember the name of it but the government had a scheme where they would cover the salary of new employees in a certain I think like a young person between 18 to 25 and I think you guys weren't you guys helping to administer that? Yes it was so it's the kickstart scheme kickstart scheme did that ever I don't think that ever really kicked off not kick off as much as great as we hoped but it is starting to move forward so it's kind of we've got an a degree of the deco working ventures that kind of any business that wants to take on young person wants to take part in the scheme they can do through the kickstart scheme so it's still there we hope to see it really kick off in the next few months but that's a good avenue if you're looking to take on a young person in particular in your business I thought that was great so they would basically so the government would cover the salary is that right? for a certain period of time? I was thinking about six months which is great, absolutely fantastic for a job that you weren't it's a new job in the business and you're creating a new job for a young person take that particular position and you wouldn't have filled it anyway when this scheme was announced so it's a great thing so once it starts to kick off we hope it's a real success I love that it's critical how have your members felt about the furlough scheme in terms of it was coming to an end then it was extended then it's extended again are people now comfortable with it winding down or are some firms so tied in and dependent on it now? I think at the time particularly back in the last year there was real uncertainty there was this cliff edge approach to it it was going to be cut off completely and then the government backtracked and has done that tapering system whereby as we go along through to September we'll see it start to be pegged back but I think that's fine and I think small businesses understand that but with the overarching message that as I say we open and we open safely and we stay open safely and businesses hospitality events industries tourism related industries have suffered so badly over the last 12 to 14 months that we just need that element of certainty moving forward and we don't have a thought process that we're going to go back into the dark days that we were in last spring and during the winter period as well True well fortunately our vaccine program in the UK has been outstanding and you know it's certainly cheaper to buy up lots of vaccine than it is to keep up the fairway scheme right yes but anyway I think it's that's given a lot of businesses a lot of confidence that element that there is a kind of light at the end of the tunnel with the vaccination program that's gone down so well and many businesses have played their part in terms of making sure that they've got lateral flow tests in the business to make sure that people come in have to come and work from the office that they might or the factory that they can do so safely and that they're safe amongst other members of staff in the business as well but it's a challenge that is a challenge in itself that's moving forward and we'll see what happens particularly around announcements regarding social distancing in business which will be an interesting one With your members the ones that have offices and that they have office based workers right are you finding that most of them are going to want their employees back five days a week like a Goldman's we'll go find yourself another job were you finding it's going to be this kind of hybrid model or what are you hearing out there I'm hearing a lot of things around a hybrid model but particularly a lot of businesses you've always been closely in the city of London that's where your HQ has always been maybe got space in the city of London when we start questioning do I need as bigger space as I did we want them to make sure particularly around the west end of the city of London they have that presence and they can get back a significant chunk of people into there because it's so important for the local economy and the central London economy that we get people working back in the centre of London we get them back in safely we get them spending money in businesses shopping down an Oxford Street just though there's that we create that environment whereby small businesses can thrive and we don't just think about going down the Paris route where we have a donut effect whereby we have a residential bang in the centre and everyone else disperses outside we need to have the best of both worlds it's interesting that I was reading an FT article about it and most cities is that that's where you go work and this is where you live and so where we both live it's residential you're working at home there isn't like a super cool coffee shop or a sandwich shop that you can just pop out to and grab a you've got your local high street but it's not like working in town where you're in Soho or in the city of London loads of cool sandwich shops it's a bit of a pandemic all really buzzy it feels like for me it's going to morph a little bit because I think a lot of people have enjoyed and this is a real variation I'll speak about this in a second but I think a lot of people will work from home or do a hybrid and I think maybe you'll find these sandwich shops and coffee shops and other infrastructure pop up not just in the West End and like city I think it will I don't know whether you call it a donut effect I'm not quite sure what the definition of it is but I think it's going to be a little bit more of a blend it feels like it's going to be very important particularly this mayoral election as well what the messaging is from them and the government that we when we go open we come back safely but getting people back safely and them having the confidence to come back and use the public transport system we have to start at some point changing the message and whilst we are still there's restrictions in place we start you have to start turning the dial but it's safe to return back to your city centres and I think that's going to be the hardest thing because people have been living in a lot of fear particularly employees in businesses and it's making sure that there's going to be conversations between employees and some employees they're going to think I've been working from home I've been working productively I don't feel confident or that safe at the moment because the messaging is still it's still there we need to start helping those businesses because there's going to be a lot more conversations have no doubt about that I completely agree I'm in the city right now I actually went for a walk through the West End yesterday it's it's dead it's super quiet all these really cool family owned sandwich shops classic in the city of London if you've ever been there for people watching man in his son or daughter grinding out the sandwiches super busy queues around the block that's what it was like right now it's like people are talking about converting offices into flats now I think I love the buzz of the city and I really hope it does get back and from the people that I speak to you know I'm speaking to obviously I'm a headhunter I'm speaking to people workers all day every day and privately most a lot of people privately admit that they are not as productive at home it's not the work from home thing that people are campaigning for pre-pandemic and a lot of people want to go back to the people I speak to at the school gate through the work I do a craving you know like social interaction and I think that the fear you talk about so much of it is from these whatsapp groups we're on right probably the same ones you're on but no in all seriousness back in the day back mid of last year where everyone was locked down right and you're an office space worker and your world is your house or flat if you have a family or if you're on your own obviously there's a big variation in that as well but you're getting your info from social media who are you surrounding yourself with the people that you're surrounding yourself with are anxious about it and a lot of people are sending around these different stats and the whole thing it's very easy to go down this rabbit hole and you're re-emerging you're right you know a lot of people are nervous and scared about re-entering society almost yeah but we also we need to recognise the fact there's going to be a lot of anxiety mental health issues regarding that fact and that's perfectly understandable where we've come from it's going to be an education task particularly those you know when we're seeing the news conferences and we're seeing what the media is putting out and we do need to have an element that you know that element that cities are safe that we start to get that message when it's right and good and proper and we have that from the higher up kind of those people at the top because it's going to take a real messaging, a good comms strategy to get this message out to businesses and to people wanting to return to city centres 100% because the comms has been absolutely debatable right but generally people have listened to the communications of the government over this past year most people have respected what's been asked of them people have been wearing masks I've been going on the tube a lot everyone wears their masks pretty much everyone's respectful of people's distance and things like that now you're right the messaging now needs to be let's crack on businesses and the economy needs to reignite and the way to do that is to get out spend money, do things get back to the offices and things like that and so I really hope we start to get into that space and we will. What do you think just related to a little bit of that again another key feature clearly this last year is a lot of people have lost their jobs and it's been tough for a lot of people and I've seen a lot of people now start up their own businesses have you seen that as an actual trend people picking now entrepreneurship and starting a business as a choice versus going to be employed again this happens quite considerably after the financial crisis back in 2008 a lot of people think self-employed is the way for them but for the best part it's a great way of stepping out of your comfort zone but also taking a risk many businesses might have what can we say but there might be people who are coming out of jobs have been made redundant and it's an opportunity it can be seen as a worry it's a concern and you're nervous but it's also it can be so rewarding and whilst it's tough it's hard and you're testament to this Lewis you've been an entrepreneur now I don't know what, 15 years or so almost 15 years I've added your four years on to it it's it's bloody challenging but it's rewarding at the same time and you've got to get through that mindset and think what am I good at what are my skills at what's the niche that I could be able to come into and then do your research speak to other people in your sector who have been through it other experiences of those who have gone into self-employment and it might not work at first but Rome wasn't built in a day and it's just keep pressing and who knows you'll be able to create more jobs and that's where it all stems from those people who are the future wealth creators, job creators definitely, I've done it it's the best thing I ever did I almost always stop short of telling other people to do it because it is a personal life choice it's not for everyone it's something you need to go into with your eyes wide open for sure you need to you need to be comfortable taking the risk you could ever go back to employment again the myth of job security you mean this is the thing the big thing you realise whether it's the financial crisis or now companies companies their main concern is their shareholders and if they need to make redundancies they'll make redundancies and people then start to feel that there isn't a huge amount of loyalty from their company and so in these times everyone wants to chat to a headhunter and you end up getting we've been so busy speaking to people and what you find is everyone's open to a conversation and they're all thinking about their career is better served in another firm versus the firm they're at they're very open to moving and you're seeing loads of that there's an awful lot of movement there's an awful lot of hiring going on right now everyone I speak to is either hiring or about to hire it's really busy it feels like not that I was alive in the 1920s but it feels like it's just going to be you need to strap yourself in this next five years because I think it's going to be amazing America as well the job data and all of that stuff is really positive so I'm super positive on this next on these next five years and I don't know how I digress to that but if if entrepreneurship is for you you've got to dive in you've got to be all in or not with these things for me when I started it I'd saved money I could cover my mortgage rent for a year and I spoke to people like friends in the UK and everyone was like what happens if it doesn't work out and you're like almost stopped me doing it and I spoke to a lot of family in America and I don't know why it's a generalization but Americans tend to be much more open to doing these things maybe because their notice periods are two weeks versus like a month or three months here right so that also governs your behaviour a bit but they were like Lewis what's the worst that can happen and you're like get another job you know and then I cracks on and so yeah you've really got to think of it I read a great book called The E-Myth Revisited so if anyone's thinking about starting a business have a little read of that it was recommended to me by a guy called Tim Hammett who was my business coach he was really good and you just go through it and then at some point you've got to dive in and you don't have to have a new idea it doesn't have to be super innovative but yeah you think through it and it's a great life with all the challenges that go with it but I would recommend it highly yeah well said very well said cool Matt thank you for joining that was a great chat thank you very much great to speak to you Lou and you and you and if any small business owner wants to join the Federation of Small Businesses then DM Matt on LinkedIn or any other social media platform that you're on you're on Twitter quite a lot aren't you I'm on Twitter but mainly LinkedIn I use so anyway www.fsb.org.uk slash join awesome done and I need to join too so there you go I will do that cool have a good one see ya bye bye