 We're glad to know you're still there. It's the breakfast on Plus TV Africa. Right now, we're going to our first hot topic, and that is that NNPC is opening the beat for privatization of the refinery of Pot-Harkot, and some people of the School of Thought that they should have privatized these refineries before rehabilitation at all, especially at Tiku, Alhagia Tiku Abubaka is saying this, that they should have privatized the refineries before rehabilitation. We have someone to discuss this with us, Mohammed Abdulahi, a public relations analyst. Good morning and welcome to the program, Mohammed. Good morning, my dear, and it's always my pleasure. By the way, I like the way you look, so the African-ness of your look is so beautiful this morning. Thank you. Okay. Well, the Pot-Harkot refinery is, I don't know if I would say it's up and running because they are yet to start that production that we want, but they're telling us that they're now trying to privatize it, and at Tiku Abubaka, the former vice president has said that this privatization should have been done before the rehabilitation in the first place. What do you think? Yeah, in the first place, the refinery is not up and running according to existing reports. In fact, according to the NMPCL, there are two phases of rehabilitation. I was really surprised that after the very first phase, we went up all out celebrating as a country with very disgraceful art, I mean, in my own opinion, because it is not functioning. Why are we celebrating? Only God knows why, I mean by the authorities. And the second phase is said to maybe conclude, maybe by mid-this year, before actual production would begin at the Pot-Harkot refinery. But again, to answer your question directly, yeah, I think I would tend to agree with the former vice president. We all understand that in this part of the world, many businesses corporations for our start-ups and so on and so forth that have been handled by the government in so many years have been left in ruins. I mean, some fantastic ideas. But because we have very serious people in our hands of leadership, so you find out that these things are just left there. When was the last time, except perhaps earlier this year, the fixer, the NMPCL declaring a profit for it, for donkeys, it's been lost and lost and lost, you know. For donkeys, also, these refineries have just been lined there and people are working, being paid millions of Naira, not billions and so on and so forth. So I think I really agree with the former vice president at Chikun. This should have been done. It's like, you know, privatizing, allowing people to come and bid. And then, yes, people who understand that, who understand businesses, I mean, the private corporations, the private individuals and so on and so forth, who understand what it takes to run good businesses, should have been allowed to bid and then buy these refineries before and then it will be allowed on their own terms to rehabilitate it or do whatever they want to do with it. You know, because like, you know, the government have pumped in billions of dollars. The bid will cover these billions of dollars that have been used to rehabilitate these refineries. So I think it wasn't a wise idea for, you know, the public funds to be injected into it before the privatization process. And I think this is why it is so, because, you know, now you have a lot of competition. In fact, without competition, Nigerian public businesses have been running at a loss. So imagine where you have big competition now, like the Dango Teh refinery. I mean, other modular refineries are running, like in Benin. And then perhaps in 2025 or 2026, you have another refinery expected to be up and running by, I mean, in a private. So I think this competition will be fierce and I don't see the NMPCL. I mean, most of these are, you know, public refineries that have been built, don't care to survive them. So I think it would have been wise for the government to have privatized before injecting public funds to rehabilitate when they know that perhaps they will be able to face the fierce competition in the nearest future. Let me just pretend that I understand why the government did this. Let me pretend that I understand. Isn't it also wise to sell a property when it is in good shape rather than when it is looking dilapidated? Could that not have been the reason for this? It depends entirely, yeah, it depends. Like I said, because of the fierce competition I had, even the kind of money injected. Remember, these refineries were not built perhaps maybe 20, 30 years ago. So it would be difficult for it to compete with modern refineries like Pidang. We will take refineries, you understand? With what will be built in a private in the next two, three years, you understand? So even despite the kind of billions that are injected, it will be unable to really compete. So why not sell it off? I mean, why not privatize it rather than injecting those humongous funds? Because seriously, I don't see any wise businessman or business corporation buying or getting those refineries at a humongous cost, you know? I really don't see it because those refineries were built ages ago. They are not modern refineries. And yes, drawing from your analogy, I think it would have been wise to sell them dilapidated rather than, you know, try to give them a facelift that has cost Nigeria a whole lot. That is my fear. Okay, some people also think that this is just an excuse to make sure that total privatization will not get into that oil sector. Or those refineries cannot be up for total privatization. And that is why they are doing what they are doing. Because from your analogy, I get it that it will be difficult for people to come to buy it. Because if they are buying it, the cost of refurbishing the refinery has to be put into whatever is going to be the actual cost of the refinery. So people are saying that it may be a ploy not to totally privatize those refineries. Do you agree? Yes, it's very possible. Government want to keep a percentage, a stake in it. But like a citizen of this country, you know, I have seen a whole lot of government businesses from the night tail. So many other businesses that we see that have been run aground by government. I don't see any reason why government don't want to really privatize. And, you know, prior to the elections, even in 2015, where the former vice president, Artiku, mentioned his plan to actually sell off NNPCL. People accused him. I'm not keeping it brief for him please. But people accused him of saying, perhaps he will be selling to his colleagues and so on and so forth. But we see that even before President Buhari left office, you know, he tried to borrow a cue from, I mean, the former vice president's strategy. Because we see that NNPC is now commercialized. I don't know what that language is anyway. But we understand that, you know, they are not fully, you know, they are managed properly now to say, OK, they are accountable for themselves, what they get, what they emit to government and so on and so forth, you know. So I think it's quite due that we look at some of these policies. I mean, for government, because we have been unable to run businesses, I think government should just provide the regulatory framework, the, you know, the, I mean, the good environment, you know, for businesses to try, rather than delve into businesses themselves, particularly in this part of the world where we've been terrible managers of businesses. We don't want to go as far as even the Ajaputa steel that have been there, billions and billions have been pumped into it and then it starts to produce no nail, no single steel for more than 20, 30 years, you know. But, you know, these are our reality. So why not privatize them? I mean, totally. Why is government trying to keep hold of things that are making losses every now and then? You know, and then we keep pumping money and people have been paid billions of nair for doing absolutely nothing. And it makes actually no sense at all. Well, we've been told that Ajaputa steel complex is going to be going to start producing military hardware. I don't know if you have that information or you don't sound like you believe it. It's quite strange. We've been told this several times several years, you know, but it's quite shocking that nothing has come out of it. Perhaps now that you have a dedicated minister, I mean, maybe things might change, but it's still in doubt. It's still in doubt. What do you need to actually put that complex into proper functioning? You know, it's not tastefully. I mean, in terms of funding. So I don't think we are quite ready for that at the moment. So that's the pain. That's the problem we have here. You know, we just have a lot of edifices. We have people working actually doing nothing and receiving some salaries, travel allowances here and there, you know, we need to really rethink these policies. And for me as an individual, seriously, I don't see anything about total privatization in as much as if you have private corporations, private individuals put it in their money. They definitely want to make it work. Nobody will inject perhaps even 20 billion dollars somewhere and just allow it to win, except Nigerian government. You know, so I think it might be our our savior, particularly now that we're even borrowing so much externally to finance our project, finance some of our infrastructures. These are some of the things that we might actually look at. If I'm President, you know, go today, there are some of the things that will look at the response, you know, to tackle some of the infrastructure deficit that we're having rather than look at external borrowing. That's just my thought. Okay, but so do you see a problem in this bid of the NNPC or, yeah, to privatize this refinery? Do you see a problem there? I don't really see a problem. I'm not really privy to the bidding, but hopefully it will be transferred enough to, you know, give room for people and corporations that are able to, you know, do things properly, because that's some of the problems we have as well. People, sometimes we find even in the energy sector, you know, corporations and organizations are able to better the lives of Nigerians in terms of providing electricity for a hundred over, you know, some of these buildings. And we know what we find blackouts everywhere in Nigeria at the moment, you know. So I think it should be done properly. So perhaps those corporations and organizations or even individuals that are willing to buy are capable of buying, because it shouldn't be in such a way where perhaps one has promised in the future, like some of these things we've seen or had in the past. So if it's done with due process and it's done properly, why not? I think it might take the burden of the government. I mean, in terms of the percentage that the government is willing to privatize. Okay. Let's just hope that this cut that has been put before the horse, it's because the horse can move faster backwards or maybe because there is an elephant in front that will pull the cut better. Let's just hope so. We'd like to thank you, Mohammed, for coming on the show this morning. It was a pleasure having you join us today. Thank you very much. My pleasure. Good morning, Nigerians. Okay. We're talking with Mohammed Abdulahi, a public relations analyst on the fact that NNPC should have privatized refineries before rehabilitation according to the words of Artiku Abubaka. And we're trying to analyze what that meant and what should have been done, actually. We'll move now. We'll take a very short break and move to our next hot topic. Just stay with us.