 I hope it's an old seat in the house. Do you think I'm perpetrating it last night? I'm sure it brings me that that's a very good win as of Wednesday, not just a year of course. I'm Miss Marston, and I'm the chair of the Tetris. We've had a great couple of days, so I'm looking forward to a lot of fun today. I'd like to welcome you to just join us today, or if you're logged in online this is my team session. Just to remind you to keep increasing the passion and my passion, I'd like to share with you your highlight of the week. We'll have some updates on this game at the end of this week. Now, very, very soon this is tomorrow of Laura Tanevich, the University of Cape Town to give her heart and spirit. Laura is director of Centre for Innovation in Learning and Teaching at the University of Cape Town. It has very strong reputation for its work on the Royal University of South Wales. And so there we are, the University of Cape Town that is after the World Heritage Year after the World Heritage Year. Laura is a committed researcher and she has worked with a number of thinkers and theorists from the Royal Education Research Centre beyond. Today she's been considered a big part of the online education. If you could put your hands together with Laura. What this has also meant is that we are not the only players in town. In fact, the universities are one player amongst all started taking seriously this shift and started asking hard questions about what this actually means for traditional university. In the US the online provision has been provided by private companies and this is decreasing globally. Residential universities are actually shifting dramatically and rapidly into this space and MOOCs have not gone away. I think this is important because those of us who have been concerned and critical about MOOCs have tended to think we can ignore them and I think we actually can't ignore them. Probably the most important and interesting aspect of the online and certainly from my perspective in the global south is the fact that it has a global orientation not a local orientation. We are no longer simply talking about our students. We're talking about students everywhere and it changes the entire landscape and certainly the UK is very explicit. The British Council is very explicit but considering education as an export and I was very interested to notice that even a recent JISC project talks about scaling up online for the global higher education marketplace. So we're not simply talking about our own students we're talking about students all over the world. I think that it also means that we can assume from the learning point of view that all higher education learning is digitally mediated. It's a matter of how much rather than if. So this notion of the online classroom and the traditional classroom I think that's over and I think that Beethan's suggestion that we rather think about different types of learning and different types of learners that enable or require independent study or guided and supported learning is a much more useful way of thinking about it. And once again this is particularly pertinent and one is considering a range of learners and interested in issues of inequality. So while all of this is going on equality and inequality it's at the same time and simultaneously become global concerns. There are a number of books that have been written about inequality and inequality. It's almost become a growth industry in the scholarly sector which is a sad state of affairs. I'm going to be drawing on Thurbin's work in a very broad brush sort of way as I found it the most useful for thinking about issues of inequality goes beyond resources and matters of economics. And he has a very simple definition of what we mean by equality it's simply the capability to function fully as a human being and he's very clear about the morality of this the injustice of this and also reminds us that we have to think about both individual and collective actions and think about systemic arrangements. He provides an incredibly useful framework that gives a heuristic that shows the multi-dimensionality of inequality. But of course there's nothing new about this and if we ignore the gender there and assume that we still believe today that it is self-evident that all people are created equal and that all are equal before nature and the law. Hundreds of years later the situation has become more extreme rather than lesser. Certainly our own constitution 20 years ago is premised on human dignity and the achievement of equality. But as I was saying it's really a grave concern that the World Economic Forum says that the second trend the most concerning trend in the world today is widening income disparities and that increasing inequality is the number one concern in the US today. There are lots of different ways to measure inequality. I like the Parma one because it's the ratio of the richest 10% divided by the poorest 40% so it's quite an easy way to measure things. And of course there are no surprises I don't think this pointer is working. Yeah, it's working. There are no surprises about where the red bits are. Perhaps the surprises are where the purple bits are. If you look at the US, for example that's pretty sobering. In my own context it's particularly dramatic. The two richest people in South Africa have the same amount of wealth as 50% of the population. We have the horrible situation of being top of the poles on the inequality stakes we used to buy with Brazil. But it's not just the global south and I was interested when I was preparing this talk to look and see where the United Kingdom lies in relation to the income distribution of the OECD countries and it's the most unequal nation in Europe with of course the US even more unequal. And in the UK the richest 10% of households hold 44% for wealth and the poorest 50% own 9% of the wealth. How does this link to technology? Well for many the possibilities of technology are an essential part of addressing inequality. And I wouldn't be so... I'd be very careful about suggesting that this is a would be a determinist or a causal direct issue but there is no question that technology is part of the need for combating inequality as the UN General Assembly has said and even local mayors are now saying things like digital access is becoming as much an equity issue as access to water and electricity. And yet I was fascinated to read through a number of reports British and elsewhere and surprised not to find the word equality, inequality, equity this advantage in any of them. So obviously this is a concern I'm not saying something we don't know what we are grappling with is how to address this and I think Mansel puts it really well there are two prevailing social imaginaries the prevailing dominant imaginary about digital technologies is market led and the alternative is opens or commons led and it's this conflict that leads to major problems for stakeholders and deciding which policies and strategies or mix of policies and strategies is most likely to facilitate progress towards more just and equitable information societies and I don't believe that it's an either or I think we live in a hybrid situation I think we've seen from history that a completely public led and government funded approach does not necessarily lead to equality so the challenge we face is balancing and yet there's no question that the market led approach is dominant. Educational technology funding is growing so it hit 1.87 billion in 2014 and it's become global so over 50% of educational technology investment in the last two years has been in non-U.S. companies and I was particularly interested to see that Coursera's latest round up of investment included an Indian backer an Indian investment so it's not just as markets but it's actually investment too the counter narrative of course is the opens movement the democratic movement the Cape Town Open Education Declaration declares that each and every person should have access and contribute and one of my concerns which I hope we will be able to discuss today is that the commons movement is not getting the same amount of attention and thought in terms of structures and resourcing as a counter narrative and all of this is happening while there are cuts, cuts, cuts as were mentioned last night so not only is fantastic work being done in the face of all these cuts but the challenge is to do fantastic work that addresses issues of inequality in an austerity environment recent Oxfam report argues strongly that there is a need to take back public policy and that we should be agreeing to spend at least 20% of government funding on education at a time where between 2008 and 2012 more than half of developing countries reduced spending on education and those of us who are working in environments where transformation and decolonization is the predominant discourse are hearing repeatedly that transformation will not happen without a recapitalization of our higher education institutions and so I end the section by asking the question how can a values-led hybrid ecology of digitally mediated education provision be shaped that strikes a strategic balance between state support and private sector provision to prioritize and enable equality in high education so I'm an academic I do the hard questions not always the answers so to go back to Serban one of the reasons I like his work he talks about human beings in different ways as organisms, as actors and as persons you think about vital inequality and when I was preparing this I was thinking how does this education in life and death issue and of course it is we know that poor people are less likely to be educated we know that educated people live longer but I didn't know until I was preparing this talk that parents of college graduates live longer too not irrelevant that more complex indicators of poverty alleviation are now including educational deprivation as one of the major indications in South Africa and in higher education in South Africa we have serious concerns around inequality not just of access but of success so our situation is challenging 35% of students graduating in regulation time and more than half of students who enroll never graduate however if we take racing to account the situation is much more dramatic white completion rates on average are 50% higher than African completion rates and about 5% of apartheid category black and coloured youth succeed in any form of higher education in those early days of the MOOCs there was some visionary perhaps hyperbolic discourse about the democratisation of higher education and the possibilities for online to solve poverty and of course we were academics we looked at this lot and we said we don't like those kinds of grand statements but I am concerned that by rejecting those kind of grand statements we rejected the commitment to the possibilities because of course we found that it hasn't been so easy but I don't think we can give up on those possibilities of course we know that MOOCs students are highly educated they are employed and in BRICS countries that's the Russia, India, Brazil and South Africa and China countries then the MOOC participants are more educated than the general population and they are older and we also know that online is more challenging so there are some really interesting studies that show that while all students suffer those who suffer more are male younger students, black students and students with lower grade point averages this is based on a very very large data set so online is not going to be easy in terms of solving these problems and certainly in Africa where we are so short of resources my colleague from OER Africa puts it very well when she says most universities and most academics in Africa don't have the luxury to invest time and resources into anything simply on the basis that it's a good thing to do if it will solve an existing problem then it's a no brainer it's got to solve a problem so one of the things I'd like to make a plea for today is to bring back the discussion to how we can use this new landscape to resolve some of these very serious challenges and I would argue that we need to grow that small body of literature that does exist there is some very interesting and innovative literature and research that's being done on the possibilities of new forms of provision in fragile environments with disadvantaged students and so my plea would be can we do more of that can we find out in which conditions certain things might be valuable and could work and I do think we need to be drawing policy attention back to these issues so time for another hard question which forms of blended and online education can best serve the social and economic interests of developing countries and of the disadvantaged in all unequal societies resource inequalities of course here Bourdieu is fantastically helpful he gives us a language for talking about resources in a broader way and inevitably if we talk about resources we talk about contestations of power but let's get back to basics assumptions about electricity the Mac is always traumatic isn't it and what it shows about is assuming about the online and about electricity provision and it's not just those places on the Mac load shedding which is one of those lovely misnomer words everyone has become part of my life and part of our life in South Africa to the point that popular magazines ask what do you do in the dark we have load shedding schedules we plan meetings for load shedding periods our library tells you what the hours will be during load shedding so at a time where resources are running short throughout the world and countries like South Africa are experiencing electricity shortages I'm not sure that we can continue to assume that electricity will simply be there for everyone throughout the world and internet access remains the exception not the rule the percentage of the population who use the internet once in a year is of 2014 figures globally was 34% but if you look at this by developing countries and developed countries there's a huge difference 76% versus 29% and of course location is key in sub-Saharan Africa 13% of the population is connected and income is key in the US 99% of US adults earn over 75,000 but 70% of those who earn less than 30,000 so we all believe that mobile is the answer and it's looking good it is looking good and I too think that there is a great opportunity for mobile but the problem with mobile is we tend to be talking about the devices everyone has a device many people have more than one device the opportunity with mobile is in the data and the data costs if you calculate affordability at 5% of monthly income then in sub-Saharan Africa 53% can afford access at entry level or SMS in email and those figures for connectivity for fully connected what you would really need for online become particularly sobering indeed and of course this has a lot of implications for learning design for mobile and the assumptions that are made about smartphones certainly in developing countries people have very practical views about what they want connectivity for they want to increase their earning power and they want to increase their access to education what does this mean in summary we have more diverse student populations than ever before we have a greater diversity of delivery forms than ever before and we have widely differentiated cultural capital and the literature shows that to date we've done really badly as a sector dealing with part-time students flexible students and non-traditional students and they are going to become the dominant types of students that we are dealing with and our universities are not well set up to serve them this is an institutional systemic issue this is not only a learning design issue it does mean seriously rethinking digital literacies so you find literature that describes this perfect online learner who has a strong academic self-concept it's competent, engages strong interpersonal skills self-directed this is the elite this reminds me a little bit of that fantasy about the digital native think what's the reality is captured in Beethan's research where she talks about the differentiated nature of digital literacy the digital skills are shallower than we've anticipated full of contradictions that most of those activities the ones that people design themselves and do themselves are introduced by the educators and that consumer practices and populist values dominate in the digital space this is a much more sobering version of a word actually dealing with what about institutional capital well this is an interesting one I think that certification is an equity issue it's about the legitimacy of new forms of provision it's very interesting that 70% of students with Coursera credentials list this on their LinkedIn profiles I actually did a search was looking for some of my colleagues and people list their final certifications as forms of professional development along with all of their other kinds of certifications this is accurate and in my view it is shifting the legitimacy of these types of certifications and for many in developing countries this is the crux of the matter the qualification is what helps you get a job which puts food on the table and until we can get verifiable accreditation right for free online courses I don't think there'll be much traction and I think this is the most interesting area to be watching as things shift in the space in a way probably the hardest area to engage with is what Sir Bourne calls existential inequality and these are these are his term self development autonomy freedom dignity and respect and these of course pertain very strongly to the work that we do as educators they're about power they're about agency they're about ownership they're about choice and they pertain right across the sector through the disciplines within and across the institutions they're about the nature of relationships this is the really hard stuff they're about who decides and this is where one sees the extent of the resentment around what's happening in the global landscape so in Bembe who I quoted earlier says the rescaling of the university is meant to achieve one single goal to turn it into a springboard for global markets the brutality of this competition is such that it has opened a new era of global apartheid in higher education in this new era learners will graduate to the status of world class universities and losers will be relegated and confined to the category of global bush colleges and that is not a compliment we're familiar with some of the critiques about loops and very reputable professors including Aufbach talking about the neocolonialism of language about evangelical arguments and self-appointed saviours of the less civilized ruling and great resentment this is about feelings of existential inequality and certainly I think it is a very serious concern and critique that we're seeing the dangers of the flattened coca colonization of knowledge there are calls for universal knowledge not to mean the knowledge of the global north but a plurivocalism a horizontal strategy of openness to dialogue amongst different epistemic traditions and this of course is much harder in South Africa we have spent much of this year addressing the issues raised through the roads must fall movement and the image there is actually of the moment when the road statue at the University of Ketan was physically removed it epitomized anger, resentment concerns about the curriculum about power relations about inequality about white privilege and these are issues that spread beyond South Africa to universities around the world including in the UK and have raised and surfaced incredibly important issues which pertain to the online space as much as they do to the face to face space so it's about reshaping relationships it's about reclaiming that network society the one that Castells was so optimistic about it's about shifting from a broadcast model which is what we've seen to date in those online courses where the rest of the world is the customer it's about reshaping that read write web shifting that consumer culture and really moving the notion of access to become one of access meaning participation and I'll just give you an example of the MOOCs I had a look on some of the MOOC aggregators for the MOOCs that are running about Africa that have been running about Africa and where they come from it's coincidence that the first one was in Manchester Aberdeen Leiden and Emery these are about Africa am I saying that universities in the global north should not be running MOOCs about Africa of course not that's too simplistic but I am saying that fostering partnerships and collaborative relationships around these kinds of provision is essential and it is happening it's harder if you have a MOOC between Brazil and Leiden in Delft it's harder and if you have one between Oslo Malawi, China and Stanford it's definitely harder but I think it's the right thing to do and that's another plea from me to foster these kinds of collaborative MOOC creations talking about the hard things one of my colleagues in Australia put it so well that I just decided to quote it directly she talks about social learning as the practice of networks, small higher education institutions to global circuits of influence and process we need to think about the strategic withholding of reciprocity so instead of withholding reciprocity I think we need to be engaging with and providing reciprocity and we need to be thinking about the obligations of care this is a new discourse that I've been coming across recently which I hope that we'll be able to explore I can't talk about inequality without talking about language because 80% of all content online is in one of ten languages but I can say that there is some exciting research being done on the rise of language communities which I would suggest we all keep a very close eye on as a kind of counter to the dominance of particular languages and then remind everyone that most language online, most content online comes from the global north and ironically the open access policies that have been predominant in Europe and the UK have made this more difficult for people in the global south because it means that the content online is not been found from the global south and online representation matters, what you find shapes what you come to know so another piece from me is to find the hey declaration around the discoverability of all content online briefly I do have to mention the elephant in the room no one likes talking about copyright but if you're going to put creative commons licences onto materials it's essential to make them remixable and adaptable otherwise it's just another version of the broadcast model and my concern also is that user generated content should be owned by users so we need to be designing for diversity, I have a colleague who talks about two kinds of diversity he says it's like cholesterol, there's a good kind and a bad kind and the good kind is enriching and the bad kind reinforces inequality, there's fantastic work being done around diversity and learning design for diversity in the online space it's really important principles of cultural inclusion leveraging research on cultural inclusion into large scale classes, very important work and I think we do have to be looking at these new business models for increasing opportunities of access, new forms of certification it's not trivial that these forms of professional development are gaining legitimacy but they do matter and of course the hard stuff, we have to distinguish between equity of access and of outcomes and this brings us back to that other enormous challenge which is about support of strategies and support of environments and I know the Open University in the UK has done a lot of very good work about the cost of support the cost of support costs, it's that simple and I would also add that care costs I worry that this new discourse of care is another form of unpaid labour paying attention costs, it costs time and it costs attention so I've been I've got my five minutes I'm in my last few minutes so in conclusion issues of inequality pervade the entire landscape we can't escape that and the question I really have to ask in summary is how can we ensure that values based pedagogically shaped online learning in an austerity environment and a higher education ecology does exist as I said at the beginning I'm not at this interest of party and I think we need critical research we need quality framed and inequality shaped experimentation we need policy and we need advocacy and perhaps what I'm doing now is a form of that kind of advocacy but critical I mean critical in all senses of the world I mean in the sense of important I mean in the sense of argumentative I mean in the sense of surfacing power policy makers like the search based evidence and I think it's our job to be researching this changing environment more than ever before in fact and we need to be theorizing our scholarship and that theory needs to be helping us understand this extraordinary landscape because changes happen before we come to understand their implications and then new practices are in place so we need to report off guard if we're concerned about values and the values based pedagogy I think we I'm speaking for many people here need to be experimenting with new forms of business models that supports a commons approach I think that the commons approach is weakened at the moment and needs a lot more attention I think we need to be innovating with these new forms of provision experimenting, trying out new things with a specific question of how can this support the needs of the disadvantaged and yes I think policy matters if you understand policy to mean the allocation of goals, values and resources it provides the enabling environment I know it can go wrong, I know the open access policy framework hasn't always done what we had hoped it would do but we cannot escape the policy framing possibilities of the work that we do and of course we need advocacy to remind and to challenge and to explain so my last word is if issues of inequality and inclusion are accepted as crucial issues and critical absences in the global online higher education landscape, we must have communities of policy research and practice to find shared solutions amongst a range of parties from different parts of the world thank you Laura, that was stunning mind blowing could we get in position for the questioning but you're going to take the question yourself Laura I'm happy to do that we've got actually well over 10 minutes for questions and I think you have Liz put the fear of God in me you said I had too many slimes and I must be sure to leave enough time so if I went too fast it's not my fault I didn't say too many slimes anyway and no I don't know the answer so if your question is so what do we do that's it let's remind you to say who you are where you're from hi Tom, Tom Wilson University Southampton specifically in my context I'm in the school of chemistry in a very research led university and I completely agree with everything you said to start off with that so my work is very dedicated to a specific subject in a specific school within a specific university what can I do to be helping to contribute towards solving this problem on a global level who can I be talking to about my work where can I go for resources because at the end of the day I want to my PhD supervisor to my school, to my university's policies and especially with stuff like the copyright stuff you're talking about that's like you said it the elephant in the room, no one really likes to talk about it so what can I do so there are no quick fixes I think that really is a serious matter it changes to happen and be taken seriously it involves consultation it involves consultation with students it involves piloting it involves ownership they are I think one thing somebody once told me when you have an unpopular view and you go into a room you must always assume that there's one person there who agrees with you and you don't yet know who they are and I'm quite sure that in the work that you do there are people who are struggling with the same things that you're struggling with and so I really think that finding communities of people sharing problems and working together is a way forward the other alternative is to give up so there are people in the chemistry community certainly at the University of Cape Town chemistry is one of the areas where the extended programs have been the most useful and done some very good work there are lessons to be learnt and it's a matter of sharing those lessons kind of one step at a time Diana, Laura Laud, UCL Laura I thought that was an absolutely brilliant analysis of the intellectual and ethical issues around inequality that must concern our community of learning technologists and I absolutely agree with what you said about looking for what MOOCs can do for us in this global inequality issue making the best of it and trying to drive them forward to what they could do and certainly in the area of speaking to the educated professionals professional development there are things we can do and we need to engage them and listen and learn and driving MOOC development towards being able to do that better than we is currently very easy but there was a curious phrase that you quoted the strategy for withholding reciprocity that I couldn't make sense of in the context of everything else you were saying I wonder if you could just elaborate on what that means and why it's important well that was a quote so I will have to tell you my interpretation of what it means I think it means my own understanding is that it refers to a kind of market-led approach to exploiting possibilities and I can give you some examples I mean one of the one of the things that is very interesting about what's going on in this space is that with the kind of global possibilities of online collaboration there is a possibility for elite universities to work together for my university the top university in Africa has a lot of knocks on the door from interesting from companies wanting elite universities to work at other elite universities to serve the elite and to my mind that's a form of withholding the possibilities of reciprocity of serving the broader educational needs of the system it's like the easy low hanging fruit that's what I am that's my reading of it I'm Alan Dix from Talis and University of Birmingham and really it's just it was a fantastic talk so thank you very much and really just perhaps add a few things to it which is things in Britain you mentioned the US I live in an island when people say online and accessible no, it's not particularly video materials I was mentioning one of the sessions earlier in the conference my heart broke when the OU programs went off the television because as a child they changed my life and online video for somebody in my equivalent position now I wouldn't have it similarly went all the way around Wales two years ago around the periphery of Wales saw 3G access once apart from around Cardiff and Swansea all the rural areas nothing and broadband access virtually nonexistent as well and it is a story it's not just about education the open data movement has the same evidences the production and the use of open data so it's an option probably not a question and neither is it a solution but certainly when we look particularly at openness on its own openness is like the open Sahara and it favours the strong and disfaves the weak and so we do have to I don't know what to do but we do have to do very specific work hard to make openness actually benefit those who are not the existing strong I think I would add there that we do have to be paying more attention to things like structures and business models and economic models and we do have to differentiate between for profit companies and not profit companies they're not the same and it's very easy to just disengage with anything that sounds like commercial or for profit and therefore it actually puts us on a weaker foot I think so I really would like to see us paying more attention to how we can actually all sustainable models and by the practical way thank you it was fascinating presentation thank you very much and very thought provoking from my perspective which is crossing commercial into HEE and funded organisations most people engaged in producing commercial educational content think that making a living is a profit and and fail to do it YouTube must be the biggest global educator and most of the people producing content there of a quality that is decided entirely by the audience and therefore in the right way are there for themselves because education is ultimately about excluding people from wealth and on the other side from trying to attain wealth and organisations that organise access to wealth through education tend to screw it up by one means or another and it's people working individually to be seen to gain value from their product if that's their particularly if that's their intellect and their intellectual property have to work very hard to do that without losing it and so I wonder I'm very dubious about organisations saying make your give away your product because we will find another way of giving you value it becomes very exclusive and your look at bush colleges I've always seen bush colleges as the acme of education and the ideal way of delivering education entirely localised, entirely specific to the people who are there and empowering bush colleges as being what online can offer and the global stratification of education to elite universities and things like that as being an inevitable but fairly appalling outcome of education what do you think well I want to answer the question about bush colleges because it has a very particular derogatory meaning in the South African context so that's really about connotations I think the issue you raise about intellectual property is very interesting though I think the questions of copyright are particularly important we've done research and research has been done all over the world piracy is ubiquitous the current system doesn't work this is a given and so the kind of contestations that are going on around intellectual property are really important and we were talking yesterday about different approaches to addressing the changing intellectual property environment and the two Laurences, there's Laurence Lessing who is the person who invented Creative Commons licenses and then there's Laurence Liang who's going to be talking at Network Learning next year and he says the system's broken we've got to think about different ways to build it the copyright system does not serve a digital age we have to engage I don't think anyone is suggesting the ownership or only attribution and I don't think anyone's remotely believes that creating content doesn't cost money but the current systems of rewarding intellectual property ownership are not working and I think in that way we agree absolutely, thank you Hi, Roger Harrison University of Manchester oh hello this evening I'm going to be preparing my talk to introduce our students, we run an online distance learning course in public health so it was really interesting to hear your talk because it's been 20 years of my work I suppose what was going through my mind is here we are in a 13 billion pound capital investment academic institution as far as I understand it and in the city as a whole but when MOOCs first came around there was all this scare mongering about well in three years time you're not going to have a job Roger so what you're going to do and I was just wondering where do you think people like me and many of us in the room who are employed by universities will be in five years time well I can't see the future but the presence not looking good for permanent positions in academic work as far as I can see we are seeing the increased casualization of academic work as we speak so I would like to see the kind of discussions we're having and the kind of fighting back that we're doing we'll work against that my own feelings I'm not feeling very optimistic on that front can I just interrupt here and say two more questions there's a lady down here and a gentleman over there and as we're getting short of time and Marin needs to give us some housekeeping instructions can we keep our questions short please thank you very much thank you Moira Maley from the Royal Clinical School of Western Australia University of Western Australia publishing in open access journals is one way of feeling as though you're contributing to wider distribution of worthwhile work however from within a research intensive university you're under pressure to publish in high impact fact journals which are usually associated with the big publishing companies where I think a lot of money is being put at the moment what is the answer to fighting back against open access journals is that policy changes within the institutions so you've asked about four different questions there sorry and open access publishing it's a business model it's got nothing to do with quality it's a different way of doing things it's got nothing to do with impact it's a it's a very simple issue that has been made very complicated and I think we'd better talk about afterwards I think that some of the myths that have grown around open access publishing and some of the policy decisions that have been made have not helped but I don't think that there is an alternative and certainly the existing alternative is worse, much worse sorry I'm Donaldson Moy from Goldsmiths College thanks very much Laura for a fantastic talk I've just got a slightly provocative question which is that from your unique perspective on the kind of global situation what would you advise a body like out with perspective across the entire UK education area what would your point advisory be provocative and on the spot number one carry on doing what you do so well I wasn't I'm not the sort of person who makes things up and says this is my favourite conference I think that the kind of values that inform this community are important number two grow networks outside of the UK because I think the point I wanted to make was that these are not national specific issues these are increasingly global issues as we go online and the strata of society really changes from being national and you know the notion of those kinds of borders really is falling away every day and number three you'll have to give me some time to think about two out of three is not that that's great thank you I think we must sadly end it there I think we could have gone on for the rest of the morning so thank you very much once again to Laura I was just sitting in the front and feeling a particular atmosphere during your talk I think you've really challenged us with a lot of hard hitting issues I'd like to present you Elts resolutely non-digital gift to say thank you very much indeed thank you to Laura and thank you to everybody here before you