 Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you so much for coming. I am Sonya Leong, and I am the co-president of Women in Real Estate Development. And today, we have a very special guest joining us, Sabrina Kanner. She is the executive vice president of Brookfield Properties for development, design, and construction. She has been with Brookfield Properties and its precedensor Olympia in New York since 1982 and has played a key role in the construction, design, and development of over 40 million square feet of construction, including the World Financial Center, Brookfield Place, 300 Madison Avenue, Bay Adelaide Center, and the restoration and renovation of Winter Garden at the World Financial Center after 9-11. And currently, Manhattan West, which we have displayed up behind us, Greenport Landing, Bankside the Yards, and Haley Rice, just to name a few. She is the member of the National Academy of Construction and WX and sits on the board of directors of the New York Building Congress, the Salvadori Center, the Opus Group, Regional Plan Association, Urban Green Council, Cedar Realty Trust, Columbia University Center for Building Infrastructure and Public Space, and the Beverly Willis Architecture Foundation. Shedding light on her early days and the inspirational path she has paved, she majored in English with a liberal arts degree and started in payroll estimating financial reporting. She worked her way up from junior estimator, senior estimator, project manager, and chief estimator. During her time at Olympia, New York, the company went bankrupt on Canary Wharf, which was then taken over by Brookfield, and Sabrina rode the recession in the 90s when Brookfield was only 30 to 40 people, and now Brookfield has over 700 billion of assets under management. Winter Garden is one of her favorite projects which was built after 9-11 as this demonstrated the strength and resilience of the community coming together and giving back a jeweled box of public space. So first and foremost, I want to say thank you, Sabrina, for being here, and I know it's not a small thing to be here. But thank you for asking me, I'm pleased to be here. So for the broader group, so you have a roadmap of what will be discussed. I have a number of topics that I want to cover with Sabrina. We will start with the macro environment and then where Brookfield is going. Then we'll talk about monetary policies, then shift to sustainability and local law, 97, diversity and the unconscious bias of women in the workplace, and round it up on a discussion of leadership, scaling up, and technology. So let's dive right in. Lots of ground to cover. Can you share your thoughts on what's going on in the macro environment as we look at today's world? We're in a very challenging environment with rising interest rates, geopolitical issues, rising construction costs, supply chain issues, inflation, and a potential recession looming over. How does what you see today translate into Brookfield's investment philosophy and how it's the same or how it's different from five years ago? Okay, I think that's really six questions, but let's not start, let's start. The bad news is we're not putting a lot of new shovels in the ground. This is not a great time to develop. And that's not just Brookfield, that's across the country really. Having said that, both boom and bust bring opportunities and it's interesting to note, we have always said conventional wisdom tells you that there's a downturn in the real estate market every approximately seven years. We skipped one. We haven't really had a downturn in the real estate market for about 14 years, which leaves a whole cohort of people like yourselves who have never experienced that. And what I'm seeing in some of the younger people at Brookfield, some are petrified. They're petrified and that's valid. Others are clueless. The truth is really somewhere in the middle. You should be feeling both of these things. Again, when there's change, any change in real estate brings opportunity and opportunity to make money. So you just have to be aware, have to pivot, be flexible and ready to actually act on the opportunities that present themselves. On the other hand, you should be reassured that every time the market comes back, every time. So as you heard, I'm with my company or the predecessor company for 40 years this year, it always comes back. It never hasn't. So reassuring, we all need real estate. We will always need real estate. What is Brookfield doing in response to this? While not putting a lot of new shovels in the ground, there is a division of Brookfield that's chasing debt investment. So we have uncertain times and very high rates, very high interest rates and lots of opportunity for risk adjusted returns that we are chasing. I'm not chasing them. Don't ask me a question about it. I get every once in a while, I get asked to weigh in on a property that the debt is being bought for. And happy to do that, but not my specialty. I would also say in this, while it's true in any economic climate, is especially true now and will become even more so over the next year. There are plenty of public companies out there whose NAV of the real estate assets, the real assets, borrow value, the face value of their stock price. And you heard, I was on the board of Cedar Realty Trust that was sold off just within a construct like this. They pulled the assets apart because stock price was going nowhere, it was going down, down, down, down. Pulled the entire portfolio apart and sold it off in three tranches and made multiples of the value, the face value of the share price. So I'm not on that board anymore, but we've got good results. And as we see stock market is depressed, we're gonna see many more opportunities like this present themselves over the next year. So we are on the lookout for those. Anybody who's interested in real estate should be doing the same. I would also say while we're not developing a lot, we are developing and choosing those projects which we call conviction projects, that there are enough fundamentals that are hanging together even at times like this where you can move them forward. They do tend to come with their own debt that we can expand or extend that we can work with or something that we can close with cash. We do plan to start something in the next few months, we hope. And beyond that, we don't really chase a particular sector or a particular geography. We pretty much stay open. One exception to that, we do have a logistics division and that sector is strong. That's industrial slash logistics. Still quite a bit of strong tenant rental interest and plenty of room for rental growth. So we're continuing to build those. So I know you mentioned that you don't chase a specific asset or geography, but the current conviction projects, are you able to shed some light on what those asset types are? One is multifamily. Multifamily, there's still very strong demand. The problem that we see there, the headwinds don't allow them necessarily to pencil out. And if we look at New York City in particular, and it's not unusual, the situation we're in here is not unusual or particular to New York City policy does not support it. So as you may or may not know, multifamily product is disproportionately taxed. And so without a tax credit or a revision to the tax law, you just cannot achieve the returns that the risk requires. And unfortunately in New York right now, our elected bodies are really quite left. And I say that with full appreciation, I'm very left myself. But when it comes to real estate, there's an unrealistic belief that developers will build or develop at a lower return at some point. And no recognition, it's very rare for a developer to develop with their own equity, right? We raise our capital and we raise it, explaining to people what giving an approximate risk-adjusted return. And that's the expectation and there's not a lot of movement for us there. Can you share about what you're seeing in office? Is there a move for tenants that are already in class A office to move to more trophy office products? Absolutely, there's a flight to quality. As we came through the pandemic, very nervous. We had two Manhattan West, which was really just early days of development of construction. We had really just started 665th Avenue, which is a repositioning on Fifth Avenue, the old 666th Avenue. We had unpeeled that thing. It was pretty much a mess and we were very nervous. What we saw was that those two projects in particular leased up. I think two Manhattan West, which will be substantially complete next May, is over 80% leased today. I think I actually looked at the comps in the investor presentation on Manhattan West and to just shed some light for all of you that don't know, it's this project behind us. It is seven buildings, seven million square feet of mixed use development slated for completion in May 2023. It costs 7.1 billion to develop. It has a 10.2 billion stabilized value, 6% yield in costs, 3.1 billion in development profit, 97% office occupancy, 96% rental occupancy, 99% residential occupancy, and it has 100% renewable energy. So what in that project made it so successful? Was it maybe you can speak to the amenities, the design, and also share. You were in construction during COVID and yet you still can make this great project work. Yeah, so I think this project is a great example of long-term investment in high quality value creation, which is something that we've always believed in. And it's really, at that point, just Matt, the compounding creates great value if you're holding on to it. I also, and anyone who's ever heard me speak before, big believer that design matters. Design really matters. It's central and when I say design, it's not just color picking, it's sustainability, it's great engineering, it's future-proofing, it's all of that. It's what makes the actual physical product appealing today and appealing in the long run. So we've got a great design staff that manages that forward. These kinds of projects, I think we happen to be especially good at campus-type projects. We just have had more experience, frankly, than others. Other campus-type projects, we've got Green Point Landing in Brooklyn, we're developing in the South Bronx, Bankside, which just won a ULI award of excellence last night. Congratulations. Thank you, thank you. The Yards in Washington, Hailey Rise in Washington. So we enjoy place-making and kind of leaning into the control of the design and really making it a place that will attract and hold people and continue to attract people and for years to come. Amenities, yes, sustainability, yes. And tenants are willing to pay for that premium. Commercial office tenants are not yet on the multifamily rental side. I think there's a personal perception of transiency and this isn't mine at the same price point. I think they would take it, but we don't get asked about it. Commercial office tenants will always ask and they wanna know, they know their employee base wants to know, what are you doing about resiliency? What are you doing about decarbonization? And they want to turn and share that with their employee base because the employee base cares. So the next topic and you touched on it is monetary policy and its effect on the real estate market and attempts to get inflation under control. What is your view on what policy makers should be doing and how we can improve the economy? Okay, so I'm not an economist. I am a developer, so if you ask an economist what they, I mean an economist will tell you the glass is half empty, a developer will tell you the glass is overflowing. So you have to kind of take that into consideration. But we do have to get inflation under control because I think it is directing personal choice. I think it is affecting decision making. And so that's something that while it's going to be very painful and the near term is a necessary pain that we have to absorb. Do you think there should be more government intervention on tax credits, tax statements? Yep, yep, yep, absolutely, there should be. Although it has to be way to where those tax credits belong as I mentioned, the great place is multifamily. But too much of course runs counter to inflation fighting mechanisms. So we have to be careful and judicial about that too. Next is sustainability. Brookfield's sustainability goals include zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050, 50% core office decarbonization by 2030 and 100% core retail and office assets with ESG certification to name a few. Can you share what your team is doing specifically in meeting these goals and how government policies such as local law 97 influence your decisions? Sure, so anything that we're designing forward is largely electrified, right? No more natural gas. There is some dissonance there because we do need a certain amount of resiliency and so to be completely dependent on electricity runs counter to that. And we haven't quite worked that through, renewable energy, clean renewables as big and as you mentioned, we have clean renewables delivered to one Manhattan West will be to two Manhattan West. Having said that that at the moment is through blockchain because we can't quite get there. Clean path should be open and forgive me, I forget now but certainly five to seven years from now we hope and the grid is in the midst of greening as well as steam offerings from ConEd. So plenty to run with their local law 97 is forcing people to open their eyes. And I think the Brookfields of the world, the large developers are ahead of this have been working on this for quite some time. It's smaller building stock owners. It's smaller developers that will be really their hand will be pushed in order to meet our goals, our New York City goals, the New York State goals. And I think it's a great thing. And I'm chair of the board at Urban Green. Urban Green was instrumental in enacting local on 97 or advising City Hall to the extent that they could to the extent that other cities are now reaching out to Urban Green and saying help us do this in Los Angeles, help us do this in Denver, help us. They've done a lot of great work and for anyone in our class I definitely suggest going on their website. There's a lot of free resources that teaches us about what we could be doing and sustainable design. Thanks for that plug, that's great. I mean they're great, they convene people, they help garner consensus, they educate, they acknowledge, they act as a springboard, as a sounding board for policy makers. And it's really a great organization and sort of an undercover power in the sustainability movement, especially here in New York. So big believer in local on 97. Yeah, is there a minimum standard when you're looking at design, like take for example, looking at deep water cooling systems, heat pumps, triple glazed windows, it's like improving your value of insulation, like what are the minimum that you implore in your design? Every building is different, it depends on the typology and it depends on the location as well. We are probably moving towards triple glazing everything. Today we're not there, we don't need to, and as we improve all facets of a building and how we design and how we build a building, how we operate a building, I think all of this changes. It was for instance, very eye-opening for us. We began doing repositioning, we've been doing repositioning actually for many years but really concerted effort to repurpose a building maybe eight years ago, maybe a little bit longer than that. First one in New York City was the building we now call Five Manhattan West, was 450 West 33rd Street and had beautiful structures, crazy looking building and we made fun of it all the time, it was directly adjacent to Manhattan West and we used to call it the Elephant's Foot, it was the biggest joke running and then came in one day on a Monday, we found out our CEO had bought it over the weekend and said, you know, just see what you can do with it. But it had gorgeous structure, had waffle cement, you know, waffle concrete structure, that everyone had covered with old acoustic tiles and but just beautiful and we peeled it, we optimized the mechanical systems, didn't even replace it all, we really just reorganized a lot of it, we replaced some that was at the end of life and put a ton of controls on it, we put variable speed pumps and fans and all kinds of controls, state of the art BMS, the building maintenance system and we improved the energy efficiency on this building by 50% in peak months. Fast forward, we did similar effort at 1100 Avenue of the Americas and of course we're now doing it at 665th Avenue. Between those three buildings, we have saved 55,000 metric tons of embodied carbon by leaving their structures, that's enormous, that's impactful and in addition, by changing out the mechanical systems and adding all these controls, we're saving 12,000 metric tons of carbon, of operational carbon every year, that is also impactful. So this is super, super exciting stuff to me but how you solve for every building really depends on that building. We know for instance, multi-family we're looking to heat pumps, right? Heat pumps are really the future electrifying but energy efficiency, well zoning also pushes you to the limits and over certain height heat pumps don't always make sense either so we still have a lot to unpack there and a lot to solve for and the industry is working hard to do that. So it seems like you use a lot of technology to make your decisions and push that design parameter as you had mentioned on the saving of the embodied carbons. Can you also share how you have used technology to make other strategic decisions if it's not in the actual building system? Is it in the use of big data or what other ways to use technology? You know really, I would say the best use of technology is optimizing buildings still to this day. We do collect data and are building a dashboard to help us locate for instance, like the candidates for repurposing but they're very crude, of course, that's the old adage garbage in garbage out you're only as good as the data that goes in and how that data is filtered and how it's paired up with other data. So that's not perfect yet or it hasn't been reliably perfect but we do use for instance in most of our new commercial office buildings we're using a software called Willow Twin and it's a digital twin of the building and what this does is actually you can pull out an iPad all of our building engineers now run around with iPads instead of flashlights and wrenches but every piece of equipment can be found on your digital twin and if something is not operating optimally it shows up and it will also tell you if that piece of equipment is still under warranty and if it is, what's the phone number to call? If it's not under warranty, what's the phone number to call? And so we optimize our operations and we optimize our energy use, our energy efficiency and we're already seeing return on investment there. So very exciting, yeah. So shifting to the topic of women in real estate and the opportunity for more women representation in the executive management level. Sabrina, you are one of the most prominent female leaders in the real estate industry. How are you continuing to lead Brookfield's team towards a more inclusive and diverse team and what insight would you impart with us in getting those challenging assignments and leadership opportunities? Okay, so again, I think that's two or three questions about the degree start. So what was the first? How are you leading Brookfield to have a more inclusive and diverse team? Yeah, I think when we're hiring, the hiring pool, first of all, we have to be extremely mindful. We need to make sure be very purposeful, very deliberate that we are seeking out people of color, women and it's not just dialing it in. I mean, you have to be pretty muscular in your assembly of your hiring pool and anybody who says they're just not out there is just not doing the work. So in Brookfield, if you actually look at the statistics, we actually have slightly more women than men. We have a very high percentage of executive women and that doesn't come by accident. And look, I would tell you too, first of all, whatever insight to impart, if you love real estate, you should do what you love because your chances of succeeding are far greater if you're passionate about what you do. I'm here, right? And there are meritocracies out there. So plenty of companies that will recognize success and reward success with more work and more opportunities and be bold, be creative, be bold, be yourself, have confidence in your own voice, which is not global sort of advice, it's really personal advice, but not always easy to take. So speaking of finding your voice, what advice would you give to us coming out of this program to stake out our place while still staying true to yourself? Yeah, again, I think you should think creatively. You really push yourself to think outside of the box while people believe that development is formulaic, the real success stories are outside formulas, right? They're the buildings you remember, the buildings that you can't forget even. And there's a great saying, I love the saying, and I think it's actually Canadian, Native American, but sometimes the river is the bridge. The idea that the solution is sometimes found within the problem, if you pull it apart, you really think about it and you just blow your mind a little bit, open up that you will find the answer, the solution that nobody else has thought of, and that's the solution that's gonna bring you success. Thank you for sharing that. How about if you could share if you have ever experienced unconscious bias as a woman in the workplace and how you may have managed that? Yeah, yes, of course. As a matter of fact, it sort of makes me reminisce a little bit and really long for the days when it was conscious. So just to give you an example, when I first became a project manager and I begged and begged and begged for the opportunity to run a project decades ago and was finally given the shot, one of my colleagues, a man, came up to me and said, I have to tell you, I disagree with you being awarded this opportunity because you've taken an opportunity away from a man who's a breadwinner and I was shocked. I was shocked, I had worked so hard and really, I mean, I've really worked hard and really begged a lot for this opportunity, but finally got it and it took me a second and here, we had, all my colleagues were around me and everyone's kind of looking at me. This is what he said, what are you gonna say? What are you gonna say? And I finally said so, the CEO should be the man with the most children. Let's agree to disagree and you move on. And I would say humor goes a long way. I think most people's hearts are in the right place and so you diffuse with humor. It gives someone a chance to hear you and listen, unconscious bias still here. Even to this day, what happens to me on a regular basis still, regular is relative, but I'll say, why don't we make that chair blue? And maybe heartbeat later, man says, you know what, maybe we'll make that chair blue. And everyone says, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. They might just say that. That happens to me still, that still happens to me. So then how can we normalize the conversation that women are not necessarily asked the same questions as men are given the same opportunities? Where do we begin? Yeah, and it's funny, I speak a lot and I speak to emerging leaders groups and often it just devops into, okay, this was said to me, what do I say back? Literally what do I say back? How do you normalize the conversation? Again, humor, again, understanding that most people are not deliberately not recognizing you. And so without being plaintive or just say, I really appreciate it when you do recognize me and speaking in the positive again is a great way to have people hear you. If you come back to someone with a negative comment, they don't hear you. They shut you down, shut you down. The other thing I would say is organically the conversation is normalizing. The same way that I used to come in, they'd say, can we all get together tomorrow at 7.30 in the morning? Let's meet early. I'm sorry, it's our turn to bring cupcakes and I'm sorry, a man would never say that. And so we need to retrain ourselves as women to not apologize. But at the same time, the conversation is shifting because it is now men who are needing time to stay home with family and that whole paradigm has shifted. We have paternity leave and you guys wanna be with your families as much as it was expected that we would be home with ours. And so over time, and this is a long-term goal. This is really a long-term goal and I say to people all the time, young women pick the right partner. Men pick the right partner. And this is not gonna be solved today. So let's raise good partners. The key to our daughter's successes is our son, our sons. So train your children to depend upon one another, to look to operate as a unit and as a partnership. All your points really resonate with me and leading to that is we can talk about leadership and how you discern between the noise of what's happening in the market or in the news and what's important in making your decision. Do you trust your gut or how do you develop that gut that you can make that decision? Yeah, I'm fair answer, but a lot of it is experience and experience working for a real estate company that really values long-term investment. So as you design for long-term value, you have an eye toward or away from fashion or fad and really toward what holds value in the long-term. Whether it be sustainability, energy efficiency, a classic lobby, social spaces, people always want to be together. There are certain fundamentals and their again design is so important. Design really matters when we're talking about long-term goal and someone who can guide the process to something that won't be phased out in five years. And what traits do you have that has enabled you to have success in your career? I think creativity and enjoying creativity and sense of humor for sure. And I love people. I love people. So, and I think that shows real estate is a team sport. We rely upon each other and nothing happens without 10 people. So you should enjoy people if you're in this and enjoy every day. It's such a collaborative process. Like you never work with just the architects or just the engineers. You're working with a huge range of people from financers to legal people to engineering design, your property management leasing. Like it's just, I think that's what makes this particular industry very interesting. Exactly, exactly. So you never get pegged into one silo. You can but don't. You get to reach out and speak to all these different disciplines and be exposed to so much. It's so exciting. So as we're all figuring out our career path, there's rumblings that some people are like, oh, I should go into finance and then I go to development or do development. Then I can't go back into finance. What is your opinion in that? Well, I think sort of difficult to say because what I would say in a perfect world is choose your horse and ride it. I've been in the same company basically for 40 years, which is the antithesis of what most people do. Now, you see people jumping every couple of years for a title, for more money. Pick something that you love and stay with it. I tell people all the time when I'm hiring, if you haven't started a project and seen it through to the end, you don't know, you haven't learned everything that's been made available to you and you are less valuable for it. So invest the time and stick with something. And I'm a great example. I stood still and everything changed around me. Can you share if when, as you progress through your career, did you have a sponsor and if you didn't have a sponsor, is there an importance of finding the right sponsor? When you say sponsor, I'm taking that as mentor. Mentor, yes. Yeah, I did. I had a great, great mentor. This was back when I was in Olympia, New York and by rights, this guy should have been the most out of lack person ever. He was a war orphan from World War II and just the most balanced human being and had this wonderful marriage with his wife who was a doctor. He was Canadian, so she was in the Canadian medical system. And especially for women, the tendency is to say, as a woman, I need a woman mentor. As a person of color, I need a person of color to mentor me. Not true, not true. And very often there's a strength in seeking someone other than yourself because you'll only learn the sound of that confidence from somebody who has it and may not be you. It may not be another woman. It may not be, and it's very personal. There has to be a chemistry. There has to be a real respect, admiration. It has to be someone that you want to emulate. And how much of that is a two-way street? A lot. A lot, a lot. As a matter of fact, my mentor, I actually had a conversation with him like three weeks ago. He's 93 now. And we just had a really special bond. I remember he came to me one day and I was a very young project manager. And this was when World Financial Center was coming out of the ground, which is also Brookfield Place. If you don't know that, so I get double credit. It's really the same project, but I did renovate it. And prices were really spinning out of control. And this was Olympian York who self-performed. So I worked for our own construction company and eventually ran one of our own construction companies. And he said, what do we do? What are we doing wrong? And the problem in my view was nobody was accountable. You weren't responsible. They had so siloed everybody that construction pushed paperwork around but somebody else was doing the accounting. Somebody else was doing something else. You had no idea if you were within your budget. And so we shifted that all around and prices all came in. And so he said, I thank you. I thank you. We had a great accent. Yeah, it's great. So speaking of accountability and its relation of scaling up. So you started off with Olympian and York and then in the beginning times when it's Brookfield 30, 40 people to what it is today. How do you ensure that accountability is still maintained as you're growing? And maybe the power of Brookfield's platform and how big of that reaches. Yeah. How do you maintain accountability? Accountability really, I think resides. The tone of accountability resides with the manager. So you, again, personal voice and how you reach your team and let people know. And by the way, they appreciate this. People want to be accountable. They want the responsibility and there's no joy and authority without accountability and there's no fun in having to be accountable if you don't have the authority. So people want to be in charge. People that are developers want to be in charge, right? And so play into that and recognize what people's strengths are, make them accountable and make them feel good about it. That's why I answered all that question. Yeah, when you were building your team as it was growing, how did you manage through those growing pains? Because you're probably acquiring different assets and then there's different platforms. You have to integrate them. There's different accounting systems. How did that all pan out? Yeah, we were lucky enough and I was lucky enough to have found a rhythm that worked and then as we acquired companies, we'd pull them in and we might find a best practice or two or maybe more. In that group, we'd incorporate them into our core group. So it wasn't just like Brookfield eating everything and being like, you're gonna do it the Brookfield way? Yeah, no, for a great example of this when we acquired Forest City in 2018, went down to Washington and we were all interviewing staff and understanding what they had, what they were doing, who was doing what. And they had this amazing program of social inclusion where they had a director of social inclusion who was pulling in community members, training them, finding them jobs, looking for local design consultants, contractors. Wow, that, as simple as it is, it's revolutionary. So brought them up to the Bronx. We're doing it there. We brought them down to Atlanta. We're doing it there. So being open and understanding when there's something new that is exciting, that is positive, pulling it in, but holding on to what you know works. Our accounting systems were excellent, much better than anybody else's, and maybe that goes back to my early days of saying, I don't know where I am. We need to be accountable and we need to understand where we are. So holding on to best practices, but being open to picking up new ones too. So in an environment like today where there's so much uncertainty, are there any ways that Brookfield's scale has been a disadvantage or it's been all great? It's tough when you grow that fast, just holding on to all the pieces. And sometimes we wake up and understand the left hand is doing the same thing the right hand is doing and we really should be coordinating and there's waste and the lack of efficiency there. So a lot of communication is needed. And a lot of reaching out, which if you're in this field, you again enjoy communicating. So making it known that you're interested in sustainability for instance and then reaching out to everybody who's interested in that and working on some front of that. So it's a helpful way to stay ahead of it, but it is hard, it is hard. Well I think that's a really great place to end. Thank you Sabrina, thank you for your thoughts and your leadership. And thank you all for joining us today. We will now open the floor for questions. So Katrina, if you have a question, there's a mic, just raise your hand. Oh I have a question actually on sustainability. You spoke a lot about how your projects have a great carbon savings. I was wondering how it's penciling out on a financial front, like what kind of payback periods we're seeing, whether or not at the moment it's financially feasible for smaller developers to implement. So it depends on the projects in particular that I was speaking about, those repositionings, they are tricky. They are the most complicated you'll ever do because in most cases these are buildings that we didn't build, we didn't lease, and we didn't maintain. So they're a mess in my opinion. So we have to go and renegotiate access rights and all kinds of things. Having said that, because you're not building the infrastructure, you're not building the structure, superstructure rather, you're faster back to market and that's how you balance that. And so we have done extremely well. If I've been hat in west, when we first had perform at that building we were underwriting rents averaging $53, I think a square foot. And our leasing team said, you're crazy. Like we're never gonna get that in this part of town now, like maybe in 20 years, but not now, not now. We signed our last lease and we leased up the velocity was crazy. Leased right up in the last lease was north of $100. So the opportunities are there and that's why I say think outside the box and sometimes the solution is not the easy solution. You're stretching and I had to go and say, if you've ever seen the building the curtain wall does this because the structure did this and kind of convincing people at the top we're gonna go a little further here with the curtain wall and we're gonna go a little further here because that's our hook. We're in the middle of nowhere. That's our hook. And he said, okay, go and it worked. Complying with local on 97 is a different deal. Like that is hard. That is very hard. And I'm actually on a working group or city of New York on the economic impact and this law will evolve. It's going to evolve for years. Very difficult, very difficult. And I think the one of the most difficult things too is there's a lack of belief that the city is going to require this. I keep hearing, yeah, no, we're grandfathered. Someone said to me, but no, you're not. You're really not. And so that is gonna be challenging. Having said that, the city is very open. If you can demonstrate hardship they will work with you. And there are all kinds of programs in the city, the accelerator program that gives you all kinds of resources to help you problem solve. If you really hit a wall, they will give you a loophole but you can't change the marble in your lobby and then say I'm out of money and I have hardship that won't fly. You will get a penalty. But to your point, it needs a lot of thought. It needs smarter design, frankly. Thank you so much Sabrina for coming. My name is Omar and my question goes more related to a personal perspective. And one of the most, I mean, a lot of people right now are interviewing for a lot of companies. And one of the questions that interviewers ask a lot is where do you see yourself in five, 10 and 30 years? When you were interviewing for Brookfield, when you were starting your career, did you see yourself here as an executive VP? No, not at all. No. Yeah, and I probably was asked that question. I'm trying to think what I would have said but I probably said something like I want your job. Because I did want to sell, I had no idea. And I had no idea that the company I'd be working for would also outstretch its wildest dreams too. So I think whatever you say has to demonstrate the confidence you have in yourself and your desire not only to improve but to expand and to share that with the company you work with and work for. Thank you. As a question at the back. If you could just wait for the mic. Thank you so much. My name is Erin and I really appreciate the perspective that you've brought to the table here. And I just wanted to ask one question about green financing. And where do you think, or where do you feel that financing is going to move as we really try to layer in sustainable design into our projects and where do you see that space kind of unfolding over the next five to 10 years? Yeah, I see a lot of improvement and expansion in that space. At the moment it's a little too complicated. Some of the green financing that's out there requires that it is superior to any other financing which is problematic on an exit, right? So that has to be solved. And I know there are people out there working for it but I think there is just such an enormous pressure to be sustainable and to invest money in that direction. This will get solved for sure. And I also believe it requires the intervention of governments. Governments are really the biggest change agents we have. Nobody else has that power, that reach. So I see the government stepping in and actually streamlining some of this, yeah. Thank you so much. Hi, my name is Jordan. Thank you for your presentation again. So going back to the conversation earlier, you mentioned that given the current market environment, Brookfield is strategically pursuing debt investments at this time. So within the purview of your team, within development, design and construction, what sorts of opportunities are you looking at during the interim period? Yeah, well just to be clear, again a debt investment, we get pulled in to look at a property where they're buying the debt, right? Just to make sure that in fact this is a long-term value-holding product. So we do a fair amount of that and occasionally there have been times in the past through other downturns where we actually had to step in and finish a project. So there's a role there. Beyond that, and are you still specifically talking about debt investment or just in general? Oh, pursuits, I would say. Yeah, pursuing within the development space. All day long, all day long we are looking into pursuits and understanding where our target market it's my belief that we do all this work right now and we do not see distress pricing yet but in a year I think we will and we'll be ready. So we are looking with no stone goes unturned. We are watching everything. We've got a list of pursuits we're watching that is a mile long. And some of those will fall by the wayside. Some will succeed, some will figure it out, some will go on and fail on their own but some will be priced ready to go and we'll be there. Hello, thank you for your lecture. It was amazing. So I've walked through this development. It's beautiful, seven million square feet. I'm just curious what would you consider to be the smallest development to still be worth your time? As such big developers. That's a great question and I have an answer but I'm surprised that you thought to ask that frankly because people come forward all the time and say this building you should look at it. It's, they probably own 5% of it or something and want Brookfield to come in and take over. About 200,000 feet is our floor beyond that we're expending the same amount of staff time allocating the same amount of resources for a far smaller return. So great question and one you should continue to ask yourself and the answer to that is always going to switch, right? It's always going to change according to the company that you're working for and the resources they have and the expectations of return that they have but for us it's 200,000 feet. Hi, Sabrina, thank you for the presentation. It was wonderful. I wanted to ask you between a project like a Brookfield place in Butterley City Park and a project or projects like this on near Hudson Yards. Which differences or similarities in the timeframe and the type of urban intervention that you realize is happening between those days and these days on those type of developments? Yeah, so I love that comparison. And one, you know, obviously, World Financial Center slash Brookfield Place was the beginning of my career but it was built on landfill. So Manhattan, we're out of dirt, right? And so creating real estate through landfill which most of that landfill came from the Excavation for World Trade Center but some came from elsewhere. That is a direct comparison to building a platform over an open cut to the railroads. We're creating land again. So fast forward decades later, that's exactly what we did. And I was actually, Olympia, New York owned the first parcel of Manhattan West which was really mostly air over the railroad tracks in the 80s. So as a young project manager and my steel toe boots and walking around, we lowered the catnaries waiting for a platform that didn't go in for 30 years, 35 years. So I would say that's one interesting comparison and here we are still grappling with where do we build next, right? On the actual planning of those two and again remember World Financial Center, Brookfield Place, I was young. I was 24, 25, 26. So I was not in charge. I was a worker bee, I was out there seven in the morning to nine o'clock at night. But we learned a lot from that project when 2013 came and Merrill Lynch which had triple net lease on four million square feet in that project went under. And we needed to reposition this project and allow it to lease up again in pretty short order or we were in big trouble. And what we saw was a real study in how we build and how we use space from the 80s to the 2010s. For instance, there was a lot of retail in the base of the building and there still is but it was all inward facing. It was all inward facing and it all assumed that the shoppers were men. When you think back World Financial Center and the Wall Street of the 80s, women were secretaries. There was no one in charge and so the retail was all cigars and Brooks Brothers and so on. So we unpeeled the building, we turned everything around so it faced, it was New York retail. You walked in and out, you wanted to walk down the street and see something new and exciting and different every 10 feet, that's our retail. And we did the best we could to open the inside to the outside and you see that now with Manhattan West and as a matter of fact there, it was almost, we had too little structure. It was wide open and trying to understand, we were working with the city planning who was wanted the central plaza to be as wide as it could possibly be and we said it's too wide, it's too wide and we ran around the city and stood in spaces to understand scale and what felt good and what felt too big, what felt personally comfortable and even could allow you to create little eddies where people could sit with the newspaper or sit with four of their friends. And as a matter of fact we came to Columbia with the Alley of Trees and went, how big is this, this feels good, this feels good. If you go to Manhattan West you'll see sort of a recreation of Alley of Trees. We went to the Seaport and how does this feel? We went to Channel Gardens, how does this feel? So it's a very personal experience and only a person can solve that. You can't say, okay it's gotta be 75 feet or it's gotta be 30 feet or it's gotta be, and people in Leasing will tell you it must be, it must not be, but you need to test it. So I went all over the place there but those two projects, those are some similarities and some differences. If we could grab a mic, which is curious, aside from environmental sustainability, what is another key design element that you think adds the most value in the long term? Great social public space. Absolutely, and you can put down a chair anywhere, someone will sit in it. And people like to be around people and I think the key to it is offering enough different choices so that, as I just said, someone who wants to sit by themselves with their phone reading the paper and their coffee or somebody who wants to sit with a bunch of their friends, half a glass of wine or just laugh, provide programming even if it's putting some ping-pong tables out or blaring Motown every once in a while, providing experiential opportunities. And I think public art is also a great way to expand and enhance that and bring sort of a civic importance and yet permanence to public space but great public places for people is essential today. Hey, thank you for being here with us. I just wanted to ask you and you can answer the best to the question because it has many ways to be answered. So I think the beautiful thing about development is that it's alive, buildings are alive in itself, they breathe, the materials in itself change. And my question to you is as the executive vice president of Brookfield for development, how do you get to be like acknowledgeable of the buildings in itself, of the sites of the people? And my question is it can be answered, for example, like how do you manage your time? You know how much do you put into each project or it can also be answered about like what traits do you think are important to be aware of everything and to know that finally the product in itself talks about one, about the company itself. Yeah, so I would say for me a lot of it is just listening to the project itself as it's developing. There's something that will cue you somehow. An example, one Manhattan West, if you've seen the core does this and that's purely a function of structure. So we put all foundations on the one place we had terra firma and canceled it out so we didn't have to drop down between active train lines. Which by the way we were only allowed to work for 15 minutes every other Sunday or it was redicking in the middle of the night. So this was how we worked around that. But looking at it and working with the architects they said, you know there's such a strength there we should put stone there and just really embrace the strength and really, really announce that strength. And then going to Italy, looking at the stone and I had seen the travertine that you see there and it was a great solution, everybody loved it. But it was drawn so that the lines, each piece, the lines, none of them matched up. It's very difficult to do. And when we were there I understood the fabricator owned the quarry. So they could control the material they had and convincing them, I said it'd be great if you just made one line continue across the top, maybe one down at the bottom and it'll trick people's eye into thinking that this is one massive piece of stone and the owner and I love her pieces said impossible, impossible, impossible. And the guy who was running her plants said so difficult, maybe not impossible. I said okay, I'm talking to him so I come over. And we were talking away and he got excited then she got excited, they matched up every single piece. It is one bench all the way around. She believes, he believes the project of their lives. I believe one of the projects of my life. And the project to me is so much more beautiful because of that, but it was looking at it and being moved by something that you went a little further, a little further, everybody builds on it and you get to the end. So that's at least one of the hooks for that building. Question, kind of about the technology investments that Brookfield has made. So I guess I know Brookfield kind of like was an early on investor with like BTS and then you mentioned Willow during your presentation just now. So do you think that these partnerships have really kind of set Brookfield apart and allowed you to achieve these ESG milestones that you've mentioned during the presentations early on? Like does that give your company a competitive advantage? Kind of that. You know, I'm not sure. I think there are plenty of real estate companies out there that are investing in tech. Everybody, everybody who's of a size, you look at Tishman's Bar, I look at all of our true peers. They are, everybody is pushing the envelope in their own way and investing. I think what really changes things and what really allows us to achieve milestones is the mindset. And the mindset at the top, the mindset all the way down and the embracing of the need to do that. I think that's far more important. It's very easy to step away and say, okay, we'll go this far. It takes real commitment and conviction to meet those milestones and meet those benchmarks. But it's important, everybody, and you have to try new things, otherwise they don't improve. And new technology getting to a place where it's actually viable and useful, very iterative. So we do very often, and Willow was a good example, take a leap of faith and say, we're gonna try something new towards the target of improving it. Hi, Sabrina, thank you for your time today. My question is, you talked about no development projects really penciling out in the risk adjusted returns, not being really worth it right now. How long or what do you think will take for everyone to kind of start? Right now it's like maybe an orange or a red light right now, for it to go back to being like, what do you think it would take? Will it take for you guys to kind of adjust your appetite in terms of taking more risks? Or are you guys just all waiting for the interest rates to come down and maybe year or two, or what kind of strategy that you guys are looking at and maybe at the market as a whole for all these developers start to really doing new construction? Yeah, well I think probably what will happen first is that price of entry will fall, and then that's probably a year, maybe two, but I think in a year we'll start to see some of the opportunities I was referring to. That's the first step. I think it's important to remember while interest rates are high right now, on a historical scale, they're not. They're still relatively low. So feel that that will settle probably next. On the construction side, the pricing and supply chain issues and the turmoil that we've seen is already settling out, and we're seeing great improvement there. It's just sort of one-off problems that we deal with now. So I have a feeling we'll be back to opportunistic returns within a year or two, or at least being back in a position where we're launching the getting and seeing green lights. Well I have, in closing, just a few rapid fire questions. Reality TV news or docu-series? Oh, docu-series. Reality TV, watching the news or docu-series? Docu-series. Canada or US? US. Brookfields Canadian Company? Okay. Date night theater or restaurant? Restaurant. Hockey, soccer, or basketball? Hockey. New York? Oh, I should say basketball. My daughter played basketball. Oh, okay. You should probably shoot me for that, yeah. West Coast or East Coast? Love them both. Well, thank you for indulging, and thank you so much for sharing with us your stories, and the analogy of sometimes the river is the bridge and the solution is pulling it apart. Thank you, everyone, for joining, and thank you, everyone. Thank you.