 On the first time on the show, I mean legendary bassist, songwriter, guitarist, I guess co-founder of the Sex Pistols, studio musician, the list goes on and on, goes on and on Glenn Matlin. How are you doing today, sir? How are you doing? You all right, fella? Yeah. I'm okay. New album. Consequences coming to be released April 27th on Cooking Vinyl. That's right. Yes. Which is looming. We're nearly there. Yes. This year's flown by already. So there you go. There's actually been a single out called Head on the Stick, which is on YouTube. There's a video for it. You know, I've been on all the usual suspects and stuff. So people can check that out before I end. But yeah, I'm pretty pleased with the album. I think it's quite politically pertinent. It was kind of funny. I was in New York over the weekend doing a session with Clemberg and Richard Lloyd from television and Ivan Julian's studio for this movie that somebody's making about a guy who's born and brought up on the Bowery. And we recorded an old song called Bowery Boys. And then I did some press yesterday in New York, but it coincided with Trump's arraignment. So that was kind of interesting to be there. I mean, when you talk politically, okay, we could talk about the music and then we could talk about the theme. So for those people out there who don't understand the politics of the UK and I'm assuming you're referring to the UK politics. It may need it. It may need the UK, but not only. Yeah. But okay. But I mean, are we talking Brexit? What are we talking about? We're talking about Brexit. We're talking about the sort of ridiculous, as I say it anyway. I mean, I don't know what your politics are, but in Europe, particularly Britain, there's been a real lurch to the right. And, you know, it's, you know, people losing rights to strike, rights to do this, that and the other. I mean, before Brexit, we could just get on a ferry, get on a plane, get on the aerostyle, which is fantastic. With your guitar under your arm, you can go down and go and do a gig of the session and bump into somebody and stay there for as long as you like. We can't do that anymore. It's like a real, and I've been brought up as the best thing that's ever happened to me in England. And it's been wrenched away from us for no real reason that anybody can see, apart from protecting a whole bunch of politicians and fund managers, offshore banking businesses and the Cayman Islands. You know, they've lied to us and they've hook went to a whole bunch of working class people and to think, you know, it's the right thing to do. It's crazy. You know what? It was a neighbor of mine who was doing some work. He's a pretty good stone mason. You know, there's people's front steps and all that. He's talking about it and he transpired, he voted for Brexit. And I said, well, you know, I'd never vote for anything that's going to bugger up anybody else's kind of career or work prospects. You kind of add for my whole industry and a whole bunch of other people who don't work into the night if I think, I said, what do you think when you go abroad? He said, oh, I've never been abroad. It's like, how on earth can we make a judgment call if you don't know? You know, I think what's wrong in this world is that people don't understand other people's cultures and how they go about that thing. And in my getting on for 50 years of being a musician and it's been, you know, it's not always top of the pops and the massive gigs you're doing this that in the other area there and everywhere to pay the rent and those sessions and stuff, meet people around and everybody's much the same. You know, they want to look after their families. They want to put some food on the table. They want to kind of let be out, let their head down without much, too much less or hindrance. Everybody's the same everywhere. But it's all about information, right? So let's just educate people in like 10 seconds here. Prior to Brexit, Britain was part of the European Union. Yeah. And being part of the European Union means free movement of labor and products, which means a band can play in London. Yeah. Today they can play in Paris with without showing passports without showing maybe there is a certain passport check, but more or less it's the free movement of goods and services. Yeah. And now that Brexit happened, it's like they broke off from the European Union. They're now in isolated territory and taxes and the free movement has stopped. Therefore, bands can no longer just easily tour throughout Europe. Correct? Yeah. I mean, you can still tour a bit, but it's, you know, now you've got to get involved with carnets for equipment, you know, and if you take the guitar and it breaks as guitars do and you pick up another one in a shop in Paris or something like that to see you through, you're broken your carnet, you know, and you're lovable for all these import duties and taxes and things. And the whole thing is just an absence. You know, it's all obstacles they've kind of put up, but it's not only that. They've used that as a way to enable the right wing in Britain to kind of tread over everybody. We've got one of the most corrupt governments we've ever had. They're brazen with their corruptness and they think they're better than everybody else and they're not there to serve the nation. They think they're, you know, a station above everybody and they can do what they like. Well, I think they're going to come right on stock or I'm certainly hope so. They look like they're going to get a complete hide at the next election. But they're trying to gerrymander the borders and people's voting rights and things. You know, now we've had about two cases of election fraud where people voted twice. And now for younger people, you have to show ID. Maybe it's not a good thing, but not everybody can get ID. Not everybody's got a driving license. Not everybody's got a passport. And you might be out of vote. And they're doing it deliberately because they know it's only the old codges and pensions and things which I am actually officially, really, who will vote for these right-wing nutcases. You know, it's not only England. I mean, it's been up in America. You know, and I've been fortunate that I've heard America a lot and many different levels, you know, in the front of the plane and in a van. You know, they did a tour eight, nine years ago. Again, Sylvain Sylvain, we did from the New York Dolls. We did the double-edder acoustic tour, which was a great last driving around. But in the middle of America, there's a whole load of trailer parts and they are not holiday homes. You know, so I can see why somebody like Trump comes along and says, oh, we look out for you. He ain't going to do that. I love the thing that Obama said before the election where Trump got in. He said, do you think this guy is going to look out for you? Come on. They claim the electoral fraud as well, the same way you're claiming electoral fraud. Yeah. No, I'm saying every side claims electoral fraud. What I'm saying now is that they are doing deliberate official electoral fraud to stop people from voting. Gotcha. That's kind of what's happening. I'll tell you something. England is, UK is not alone. It happens worldwide too. Well, I know. Yeah. You know, I know that. And it's particularly effective. And that's led to me writing the songs that I wrote on my album. But, you know, the more I investigate it and I've become, you know, not that I haven't been that politically involved, but we can really do his vote. But now, you know, if there's a march, I'll go on it. And in fact, I went on one, which was Pride to Brexit, which I kind of sum up as Brexit, Brexit is dopey kind of march, but there was a million people on the march. It didn't get particularly reported. I bumped into Kevin Rowland from Dexy's Midnight Runners, we're walking along Piccadilly and just behind us, there was a big black guy who had a big tricycle with a trailer with a big ghetto blaster on the back, pumping out music. Then he was playing Let's Stick Together by Brian Furry, you know, his version of the Came to Heat Song. And I thought, what a great place to have your song played while we are marching to Parliament Square to have a go at them and let people know what you think. So some of the songs I wrote, I had that in the back of my mind, you know. That's why I wrote that head on a stick and the consequences are coming, you know. You know what I love about the family of the Sex Pistols, we'll call it that family tree. Everyone's got an opinion. Everyone's got a very strong opinion. And that's good and that's healthy, right? I know even Johnny Rodney, he's on the other side, right? He's on the other side, yeah. He's on the other side. But I don't know if he is. I think he just says what he says just to kind of get his vote race in the paper, really. You know, I doubt his sincerity about all that. But by coming out on the other side, whether you vote for Trump or the Tories in England, we're not even sure we're as allowed to vote these days. And if you don't mean it, I think that's pretty poor. Let's talk about, okay, that's the political angle of the new album, which I find it very interesting. And then you have the music. Describe to people what they can expect. I mean, I know there's a few singles that were released, but what can they expect to hear? Well, you know, I was born in the 50s. First records I've ever put on were Jerry Lee Lewis on 78th and Elvis and stuff like that. You know, they really had something going for it. And in the early 60s, we had pirate radio in England, where bands like The Kinks and The Who and The R-Birds and The Early Stove and The Small Faces came through. And that was very impressive on me. And we also had a great TV show called Ready, Steady Go, where all of those bands would play live. Plus, you know, you would have the early Tamlamotan stuff, you know, and Smokey Robinson and Martha Reeves and the Vandellas. It was all fantastic. That's my kind of yardstick for writing the kind of three, three and a half minute rock song that's... And all those people and the songs I've mentioned that were hits, you know, they might bring down the government song, but there was some kind of small consequence about all of them. You know, they were worthwhile things to be singing about. And that's what I kind of allude to every time I write a song. You know, I think it's a good blueprint or a yardstick. Now, I don't want to sound old fashioned like that, but that's the kind of crux of the building and the song. But then also over the years, I've met and become friends with, worked with some fantastic musicians. You know, I got to say that I really enjoyed it. I found it very melodic. And, you know, it's always great to have a little bit of a meeting in there, which makes it even more enjoyable. It's got that... It's a little bit of she-bop. It's got a cover tune by Katie Lang and I think it's Ben Mink, who wrote the song... I knew I'd be talking to some of you Canadian type, so I thought... It's not only about what's in, it's not all... I think it's got a great sentiment. You know, there's something better that we can all yearn and long for. That's the song called Constant Graven. I didn't even realise when I did it that some of these few people at home it was kind of the big gay anthem kind of thing. Well, good for them, you know. That really both makes a good song. You know, I like to... In my last album, Good to Go, I actually did a cover of the Scott Walker song called Montague Tarris in Blue, which is a big, big ballad. And I just want to throw a curveball in and make people think that there's more than Blitzkirby-bop in life, you know. And there's nothing wrong with Blitzkirby-bop. But there's other stuff that's cool too. You know, and some of the tracks on the album there's a track on the album called All Speaking in Tongues, which, again, is like all these politicians talk so much nonsense. They might as well be speaking in Tongues. But musically, it could be something from Goat's Head Soup or Exile on Main Street. You know, it's got that kind of groove to it. But my version of it, you know, I don't want to sound exactly like somebody else. I want to try and put something newer forward in my own kind of, you know, within the realms and the parameters of what I do, but you can allude to things. And as long as it doesn't sound like a prestige, it's fine. You know, it's amazing. Like, I'm listening to this album and I commend you on it. I think it's really enjoyable. It's got a nice... Thank you. It's all about the melody. And I think you've always been that unsung hero of melody. Well, you know what? I'm glad you picked up on that. Because even songs, you know, like Anarchy in the UK and God Save the Queen, if John had had it totally his own way, I mean, he wrote the lyrics for those songs and they're good interest in lyrics and he delivers them great. But if there wasn't a good tune behind it, nobody would remember them. You know, and if it had his way, it would have sounded like nice white bogart or, you know, a German industrial band or something like that. And nobody would be talking about it these days. So in music, there's a yin and the yang of going about things. And I think what was good about pistols, we have most of those angles covered, you know, just through the personnel and the work in the family. Let me ask you this. Why was there never a second album ever? Like, I mean, here you are, the band reunites and you write another tour and another tour of the Sex Pistols. You're a great songwriter, as we can see on this new album. You got a lot in you. Why didn't the Sex Pistols just come out with the second album? Because we be young, impetuous and full of beer and argue with each other too much. But that's the beauty of it. I know, but we don't even argue with each other. You know what the problem with the pistols was, is not everybody said what they thought to somebody else and not to the band guys themselves. We never spoke enough, really. You know, and I think a few more kind of real hum thing in conversations. It could have cleared the decks a bit more and we would have made the second album. But if you look at everybody else's output, you know, John's public image stuff and what I've done with Richard, I've done loads of things and Steve and Paul, you know, all in demand musicians and songwriters and contributors to things. We all had it in us the way of the second album, but I just don't think we were kind of, you know, Malcolm McLaren, you could almost say he was like the shepherd of the flock that was the band. I don't think it was a very good shepherd as far as that was concerned. I guess since I've, you know, I followed the Sex Pistols since I was a young kid till today, I've always said, have these guys even discussed doing an album? Like it must have been brought up. You have just so much, there is so much Thanks to all of you. Not really, yeah. Not really back then. But when we reformed in 1996, we spoke about that, and me, Steve, Paul, Rick and John wasn't, so there you go. And I think he was kind of frightened that all our stuff is up on a pedestal and if we did something that didn't come up to scratch, then it wouldn't kind of chip away at the pedestal. Not fair enough. But I see that as a challenge and we could have written some stuff. Yes. Had a guide then. If it was like it, then put it out, but we didn't even do that. But the tour was cool. You know what, I think there's enough quality music in all of you to combine to create that brilliant second album, but it is what it is. Well, thank you. I agree. But there you go. I think the time to do that has been gone now. Look, I don't know about that. I mean, you came out with a very, sort of like, I wouldn't call it a rhythm. I didn't vote for Trump. Okay. Is that what it comes down to? Well, you couldn't have any ways. You couldn't have any ways. You know, if you was a stork, well, I'm not, you know, I'm not drinking Lenin, or Stalin, or Tarak Ali, or Jerry Reuben, the leader of the Yippies, I'm not like that. I'm going to metal it from the hour of road, write a few songs, but I do not understand on stage next to somebody with a MAGA hat on. It's not a good look. But thinking again, going back in time when you were Johnny on stage, wasn't it the same feeling anyways? Didn't you guys not butt heads anyways? We did. The same dynamic is there. That's what I'm trying to say. The same dynamic is there. And that was probably what made it exciting. There was a three-song kind of there. There was something about the fella that I didn't trust, and I think it's taken a long time to understand what that was all about. And in the past three years, I've realized what that was all about. Going to the documentary or the series, the series, not the documentary, I've watched it and I really enjoyed it. I don't know how much of it is true. I'm very disappointed and actually considering I had meetings with Danny Boll about it. I'm not disappointed that it came out. I'm not disappointed and I thought it was important that it went ahead because it was based on Steve's story and take on things. And he was the guy that formed the band, not John, Steve. John was the last one in the band. I thought it was important. But my portrayal, and not even by the actor but the script and particularly in my leaving the band, I left the band. I was not sacked. That whole episode where Steve sacked and it's just bollocks. It never happened. It was a rehearsal room that we had. There was all these people dancing and partying. It was about as big as your bathroom. What about the... It was probably about taking things and the whole thing with a big party and being on a double deck of bus with the beach stood up. It just never happened. It's best nonsense. What about when you were signing the record contract and you were sort of the only guy who was saying, wait a second. You were questioning everything. You were looking out for the financial security of the band. That probably did the many favours in the long run but somebody had to. I don't remember saying to John he said, I'm going to sign this. He said, but you've read it and if there's anything wrong with it it's your fault. So that is fact. You were the only one looking out for everyone from a financial perspective. Yeah. Somebody take 25% right off the top. It's a bit of a tall order. What else did you find? The Chrissie Hines and the Steve Jones relationship according to Chrissie Hines was completely exaggerating. I know Chrissie. She's my neighbour and I was talking about it. She slept with him once. There was no like flash dads. There's still mates to this day. Steve is a particular kind of character. We've all got given that. He's a sod but he charms his way through and Steve Jones gets away with it. Steve Jones, he's done this, that and the other. One day when we all pass on and he'll go to the pearly gates and I'm half joking here but St. Peter or whoever is supposed to be up there will go. I've written a few words for my you know my incoming. What do you call it? Monax is getting involved. Oh, KS, yes. You know, for my Iver or what's it called? Oskers. I've written a few words and I open up things and go and some people will go Steve, what about this, this, this, this, this and that and Steve Jones will put on a little smile and he'll go, sorry about that but he'll let it in and the bloke will go and he's that kind of guy, you know. What would you have like to see and I enjoyed the series regardless of all the myths or the sort of like exaggerations, what would you have liked to see portrayed about you that wasn't in the movie? Well, just the whole thing that you know, I left the man and I had a whole big meeting with Malcolm about it and Steve and Paul and said, you know they said to me, can't you just all said to me, can't you just pretend you like I said, not really, you know you know, I'm writing all these kind of tunes and things and if you can't back me up a bit more if that's what you want, that's what's going to happen, that's what happened we're sitting and I just think it should have been more truthful and I think I don't think the real story is more gritty and truthful than the thing and I met Danny Boyle again and I was saying to him, I have to come out and I had a private scream and he went Danny, you're a cunt right and he's like so he knows where I'm coming from you know Did you have any input or say in the series? At the beginning, I had some meetings with Danny, particularly the production team and I thought it would all be an ironed out but then I was ignored, so I'm not happy I feel shafted What about Paul Cook? What do you think that wasn't in the movie that should have been about him? He had a bigger part to play I don't think Paul is 100% happy about it, I think he sort of comes across I went to say it with my son Louie I was a bit embarrassed really when I watched it Louie sort of quite astutely said he said, well the thing is I know you did this and the other and I also know it's about Steve he said, but you and Paul just come across as like real kind of two dimensional characters there's no sort of background your family and all that a bit of that could have been in it and it would have fleshed things out a little bit more and made it a bit more kind of real and he could say, well it's not time for all that in it well there was the whole episode on Chrissie and I not getting married to Steve which took up an hour of reverie did she ever get married in the UK, Chrissie Hines I don't know, I don't remember I don't know if she did she married Ray Davis Ray Davis later on not back then not back then, so she wanted a visa I guess or getting a visa started well yeah, she had a big kosher basically was Malcolm McLaren, was he as evil as he was portrayed in the film well I think the guy plays him pretty good the whole courtroom scene he's got Malcolm down to a T he was a tricky tricky fellow very interesting, erudite, funny I don't think he comes across as evil he comes across as highly crafty which is different what about that courtroom scene that's what I was talking about was that a real event that that actually happened well I wasn't in the court that day so I don't know, but the way the actor portrays Malcolm with all the flowery language and turning things around to his advantage from whatever the judge had to say I thought they kind of got that pretty good but whatever the actual words used and whether Malcolm drove there with many by himself I don't think he'd even know how to open the door to key I guess you must get hard of being asked every single day of your life about the sex business well not often I've already been up an hour you know Glenn it must be how many years has it been it's like it's been over 50 years 50 years I think I've been the only thing about always being a sexist I like to live in the present stuff my cap to the past and look to the future and that's what I always find but I have to do interviews to push things and people ask me about it what can I do what I did appreciate but the series was it showed you in a positive sense as the sort of melodic composer like he was the backbone of the band and without you two guys it's just yelling after that well there you go that's what I said earlier on all angles covered with the band there was a yin and yang yin and yang or yin and yang or yin and yang everything was covered the nuttiness and the musicality the intention and the cleverness and there was a lot of humor involved as well you know I think one of the things that sums up the pistols more than anything else is in a pretty vacant video they made after I left where Steve has got a knotted anarchy handkerchief on his head you know which comes from well that's what the working class bloke used to do when they went to the beach they didn't have that so they'd get anarchy they would make a hat of it and the self-respecting lead guitarist would do that other than Steve then it's funny there was a whole humor involved I think you already answered this question they call you up tomorrow they go let's just do a little mini tour of wherever USA or wherever would you do it well I always say never say never again but I would say no mega hats okay if there was no mega hats that would be on your rider right yeah but then there's probably I'm a big fan of the faces right and their last single which they put out as they were breaking up this called you can make me dance you can make me sing and then in brackets it says mend the fuse do the ironing take the rubbish out put the cat out or any other menial housekeeping duties it's actually on the title of the song so it would have no mega hats or arsonists or not buying around you know there'd be a whole disclaimer thing before it signed up to well you know I'll make a statement like I might watch the video of you guys in 1996 you guys were on fire I've never you're probably better back then than you were when you first started out yeah fire on fire possibly so you know and really looking back I mean I'm 66 now when we did the thing John's a bit older than me and Steve's a year older than me but both me and Paul you know Steve John was going fat 40 and back when I was with a fat and we weren't even 40 we were still 39 so we had the ump about that but that was 20 odd you know 25 of more years ago now so we were still relatively young men consequences coming are you planning on touring I want to in fact I'm here in Los Angeles mainly to do we're doing Coachella with Blondie I'm playing with Blondie at the moment I came over here we did a show in Miami then we went to Mexico City did a festival Bogota we did a couple shows there and then came back here and you know I can't get going back because I'm always in England so I thought I'd hang out but I'm actually going to do a show at the Roxy on the 29th of April Clem's going to play drums and we've got some sort of pickup musicians but um there's a guy called Steve Fishman who's a mate who's going to play bass but also Gilbert Tarks going to play league guitar we've had one rehearsal already it sounds good you know so that's going to be my American promo show for now but yeah I want to be out and about playing my stuff as well I like playing with different people because everything's a learning curve you know Blondie are a great punch they've got a canon of work Debbie's a great front person lady she sings like a bird you know when I started rehearsal with them I did some shows with them last year you know and they've got a proper crew you know maybe too many people knocking around in the rehearsal room and the sound guy said the clanker you know is everything alright and I said well can you turn Debbie up and he said well it's pretty loud I said yeah but I like it just turn it up a bit so there you go I mean I could talk to you all day but I won't I'll leave you be I know you had a really rough you know morning there consequences coming to be released April 27th on cooking vinyl I guess you could pick it up hopefully there will be a little mini tour somewhere maybe one day you'll come to Canada yeah I'd love to come to Canada when I go I'll go back right there on the 29th as I said on the 30th I've got about four or five band shows over there with my stuff and then I've got a whole bunch of like cool stick kind of in stores and things all through May and then I pick up with Blondie again through June and we've got a big show with Iggy Pop on the 1st of July Iggy Pop, Blondie and Generation Sex which is Steve Jones, Paul Cook Billy Idle and Tony James so that should be interesting backstage very very yeah yeah a lot going on it's been a pleasure thank you so much for your time yeah it's been fun it's been fun chatting I do want to say I don't know if anybody's ever told you but you don't have to look like Robert De Niro I get that I get that at least five times a month I'm at the dentist's office and he goes you know what you kind of look like Robert De Niro he says I'm at the store he looks like Robert De Niro I talk to guys like you I think maybe that's what we're getting on a lot because you know what I get I come back from Columbia the other day and there's quite a nice cafe around the corner I know where it is and go around and I walked in and the guy says hey you Al Pacino I'll get that we can do a movie together we can do a movie we can do a movie together it's true you do look like Al Pacino geez yeah but I did say to him the thing is I'm not I said about Al Pacino but I was getting really mad people going up to him saying he doesn't look like my mate well I'm sure Robert De Niro is getting didn't I see you in Montreal last month yeah alright my friend thank you so much alright fella thanks