 Organization and legislation to order it is 1033 and We are being recorded The first order of business this morning is to make sure everybody can be heard and Can hear and we do have one member of our committee who is Attending remotely and so I need to announce that that is Darcy Dumont Council Dumont. We've been participating remotely Because physical attendance would be unreasonably difficult under state law So I wanted to record the record to reflect the fact that GL member Darcy Dumont is attending remotely via speakerphone on this date of June 16, 2021 Because physical attendance is unreasonably difficult So the first thing I want to do is make sure Darcy can hear me So Darcy, can you hear me? great Then I want to just make sure all the members of my remaining members here physically present so Sarah You can hear Darcy and I'm present and I just hit your button Darcy and I can hear everybody else in the room. Okay. Thank you and Pat If you just wait I'm physically present Okay, and you can hear Darcy and you can be heard and Mandy I am in the room and I can hear Darcy and I assume I can be heard. Okay. Very good. Thank you And of course the chair is present and can hear and be heard We have up on the screen the agenda for today's meeting and the first and Item of business is going to be interviews for Fincom. We have two interviews The first one started about four minutes ago We'll be interviewing Rika Clement and then a bit later this morning. We'll be interviewing Bob Higner Then we will turn to our recommendation for that position Then we have a moratorium bylaw that has been brought to us that we need to review and make a recommendation on and we have a citation that a couple of my colleagues and myself have brought that will be reviewing and then I'll just give you a brief update on DAB and where we stand there and then we have two sets of minutes which the chair is already reviewed and Are actually on SharePoint if you want to see the changes were quite minor I thought that They were they were very good, so I appreciate your work So any questions about the agenda we're set to go I'm sorry dude Did you have a question? You got to push your button It's all right Watch your French. We I said damn it. I didn't say the effort yet Italian Yes, we had a mandiant and I had a resolution Addressing financing the crest right and I understand that it's going straight to council That is correct. My concern is that it could get slowed down because if they're going to send it back here Why wouldn't I can't predict what they're going to do, so why don't we look at it today? I felt a was much too much last minute and I felt be that I didn't see the value added with GOL this is really an issue more of what the council wants to do and going forward and I felt that I just I made a decision not to put it on the 48 hour I'm uncomfortable with the decision that's noted because I feel like it's a way of Not intentional and I acknowledge that whole heartedly, right? But it's oh it can now Sent back in theory. That's true. Yeah, and that seems to be redundancy that Used to stop addressing the issue. Well, I think that would be a good argument to make it council I might actually be sympathetic to that argument The redundancy also realized that we do supposedly only whether an act whether an item is clear Consistent and actionable we can't really discuss the content or at least we're not supposed to so that was the other reason No, I understand that and and so it's yeah Okay So everybody set with the agenda. I'm gonna ask Rika to come forward Rika Clement is a candidate for the Fincom vacancy and She has graciously agreed to come and be here physically present with us today masked What we do is I have each of the members of the Committee ask a question They're allowed to follow up either immediately upon that question or after we've gone through everyone They can also ask a second question if they wish I Asked that you try to keep the two-minute limit. I'll probably interrupt you at some point Just so we can get through in a timely fashion and I'm actually going to start with Darcy if if she's ready and able And then I'm going to turn to the members of the committee who are physically present so Darcy Do you have a question for Rika? I? Yes, you could speak a little louder that would help. Yes, we can't hear you, but it would be helpful if you were a little louder Okay, Rika. No problem. Thank you for the question Well, I guess I I don't know all the details of the Budget right now, but I would say that budgets always present difficult questions and Indicate what our priorities are and if our priority is you know racial justice and climate equity Then we'll have to be figuring out how to rank those higher than other things that have previously been more important So I that would be That's partly why I'm interested in being on the committee and being part of that conversation I don't think there's an easy answer Thank you Man many you want to go ahead? Sure. You don't have an order spot on So my question is on a similar item, which is you know You talked about some of your finance experience and experience in nonprofits and all and I'm wondering if you have any experience dealing with budgets when the You know the program or the the Entity has been trying to add a program to a budget and if so can you talk about that experience and How that worked and you know sort of similar to Darcy's question, but yeah Sure I Have been at nonprofits. They're often looking to do more than their current budget will allow and One of my main experiences I guess I would reflect on was when I was director of a science center out in Boise, Idaho Where half of our income was earned and half of our income was Contributed and so You know that was a nice that was a nice aspect that we were able to earn some money through admissions and When we wanted to start new programs we we initially would look to philanthropy and look for grants and look for other sources of Revenue that had interest in the program we were wanting to start If that didn't work out then we might You know look for a different program They could fund and allow to free up some of the earned income since we could earned income had no restrictions on it So, you know, I don't know what it's like when you don't have that philanthropy You know that that's a nice out that a nonprofit has that I don't think the town does so again it's weighing the priorities and You know gathering the input from constituents as to What people feel is most important and and making making hard choices and and living with them You know and living with the consequence of some things that People have been passionate about are not Getting the same kind of level of support and that can be very challenging has impact on social Socioeconomic diversity and Amherst We have a lot of competing needs from residents and You know while we say we're going to take in public opinion When would you always do that? I guess maybe that's the simplest way to ask the question If the public is screaming for something that you think is physically or fiscally, sorry Not prudent, what would you do? Yeah, that's a great question I I one of the things I wrote in my statement was I mean budget says I mean if you want to know what somebody believes you look at how they spend their money, right and so There's a lot of different ways you can approach that and You know, is it is it we're gonna spend the most You know the money in a way that benefits the most people or them or the people who need it most or I mean Those are filled soft questions The other thing I would say is When you say, you know, the public is screaming for acts My experience and my gut I'll say is that the public is not necessarily who's screaming is not necessarily representative This weeky wheel and you know, it can often be a minority So I do think it's important to have that public input, but it's also I think important to recognize that Just because they're loudest doesn't mean they're most Representative now how did you think how do you figure out? What is most representative? I don't I don't know the answer to that question. I guess I'm think I have yeah, how do you think? knowing yourself and How do if you really felt strongly that something was the wrong decision But what would you do where would you how would you decide that ultimately or finally? Am I it being at all clear? How would I decide it ultimately? you know a finance decision that you think is Inappropriate for any reason and the public really supports it and Seems like the larger committee supports it. Where do you how how might you respond knowing yourself? Yeah, well my I think it's a fair question I For myself, I guess I'd want to say no But what I think about a little bit more is is my role to be Representative or to do what I think is right and I don't actually know If that's something that they tell you or you figure it out on your own I don't know how that plays out. You know if so I feel like that would be an important Point for me to understand am I free to really act as I feel is right or am I here to represent? What I hear from the town and I don't I don't know the answer to that You're welcome. I Was going to turn to Sarah next but but thank you because in a sense Pat's question in your response relates to my question. So if you with your Permission Sarah, I'm going to just throw it in here Your position is a non-voting member So what do you make of that? In terms of both the question that Pat's asking and you know, why would you give all this time and energy to a body we're in the end You don't have a vote because I think that participation is the only way to have any influence and Okay, here's something I really try to live by and that is I show up I pay attention. I tell the truth and I let go of the outcome and That's how I would be approaching that so Okay, that would be my answer. Thank you. All right, Sarah. Thanks Hi So I just want to give up a little preference preface to my question and that is I disagree with the other members of this committee in that I Don't think that we should be asking people who are volunteering Questions that are Intended to expose someone's Political agenda, I feel like the volunteers that help us like Fincom and the Planning Board and the Zoning Board of Appeals should be people who are Open-minded who can think well who can connect the dots and who gather all of the information For the council to then help us make our political decisions, but I don't think of People who serve on those committees as politicians as of yet So that being said my question to you is could you possibly give me five different uses for a stapler? Other than its intended purpose. Oh, that's impressive Paperweight Obj dought Hammer Doorstop I'm a stir That was fabulous it took me a half an hour to think of three, so you rock I Think I think that's sufficient. Are you satisfied by that answer counselor? I am thrilled by the answer as no that I am thrilled Brief follow-ups Darcy do you have a follow-up question or a second question? Thank you Any other member of the committee have a follow-up question or a second question that they'd like to ask Rika How comfortable are you asking? For When you don't when you don't think you understand something how comfortable are you just saying gee, I don't know can you explain that? I'm very comfortable with that I partly I feel like Where I am in my life, I'm willing to ask that because I'm guessing I'm not alone and I'm willing to do it All right seeing no other hands raised and so Rika, thank you very much for coming and I will be back in touch very soon as I said we'll be deliberating later this morning and we'll let you know All right. Thank you very much appreciate all your thank you. Take care Does anybody know where that phone is? Is that is that that thing is ringing? All right Darcy was that phone from you? It sounded like it was in the room No, I think it was in the room. Okay. Well Bob Please take the seat. Thank you for coming. Thank you for being willing to be here physically present and to wear a mask That microphone if the green light is on it's or it is on a great so So you you're alive you're being recorded So the way we work it here Bob is I ask each of the members the committee to ask one question I'm going to start actually with our remote member Darcy do not you'll hear her voice disembodied voice over the speaker I'll begin with Darcy and then we'll go around the horn I allow a follow-up question or a second question if Committee members so desire and we'll try to keep it to 15 minutes And I ask you to try to keep your answers to about two minutes if you could So that's the that's the drill Great. Okay, so Darcy. Do you have a question for Bob Higner and yell Darcy nice and loud Please that's all right I Okay, here we go. Thank you. The light was on but not bright Okay, thank you So if I understood the question correctly Darcy you're asking What thoughts I have as to How the finance committee can reorient the budget to meet various priorities including Climate action and the Crest program and other priorities, is that correct? Okay, so in my my experience is in the private sector and I've learned over the last two years that the public sector financing is very different than the private sector and part of the challenges we face is that Because of state law and I believe the charter the town manager presents a budget on May 1st and The finance committee can either Reduce that budget or reject it all together. There's really nothing where the finance committee can say hey We'd really rather have you spend X on this than then X on that The only mechanism that we have is the guidelines that we publish in The fall I can't remember the specific date, but it's around November or so and that gets sent to the council for approval And a lot of things happen between the fall and May and there's not much we can do about it. So In terms of where we could find money, you know, we might be able to find money from the public safety fund It's challenging There's also the fire department that needs money that really doesn't come up in a lot of these discussions so It's it's a challenge. I don't have a good answer to it However, I think it would help if we somehow could have Some dialogue between when the budget guidelines are set and when the budget is presented on May 1st To have a back-and-forth as to whether the finance committee and the council is Kind of in sync with where the town manager is going. I should also point out that a lot of the budget is set by Committees other than the the town manager including the the education You know the elementary budget and the regional school budget and that the Jones library library budget. So a lot of the budget and the Things that affect the town's finances are sort of balkanized into different groups and it would It's very different than the private sector where everything just comes down in one package, you know You and everything's back and forth. So so my my suggestion would be that We have a more robust discussion between when the guidelines are set and when the budget arrives In order to have a back-and-forth Great. Thank you. Thank you Bob Mandy please Thank you so I Know you're seeking another term on on the finance committee So I'm curious what you've learned from your years that you've already served on the finance committee that allow you to contribute in more meaningful ways Well, as I said in my statement of intent I Learned a lot about the budget and again coming from the private sector. I learned about much more about public financing and public budgets and I think that What I've what I think what I can bring based on my experience is a Better understanding of What Goes into the budget how the budget is created and then how the finance committee interacts with that and and I sort of said that and in my previous answer is that I think that the process is not ideal and Maybe we can modify that a bit But I also I mean I've learned just a whole lot about The the liabilities that the town faces the long-term liabilities that don't really come up in conversations very often for example there's The the superintendent of public works Stated that it costs a million dollars a mile to resurface a road Or a street along with sidewalks and curbs and if you think about how many miles of roads we have That's a hundred and thirty seven or so and if it lasts, you know, 25 years We're looking at five six million dollars a year Just keep the roads going. We obviously don't have that kind of money. So we have to make decisions as to what we're going to do There's also water and sewer infrastructure that We have no idea what's out there and what's You know, what what the liabilities are for that as well as long-term Liabilities such as the OPEB Liability which is on the order of the town budget in terms of what what the long-term liability is So I've learned about how We have to see them. I have a better understanding of the bigger picture That will help me, you know make comments on What to do in particular things come up Pat I'm building my question on something that you said which was the process is not ideal or adequate And you mentioned one change which was to really have robust conversation What else do you see as problematic and what might be some solutions? well, what what I see is the the The whole finance and budget process are basically vulcanized. I mean you've got the school committee that Not only puts this the elementary school budget together But works with the other towns to put the regional school budget together, but my understanding is they're also negotiating the The labor package that will you know be presented to the town at some point We don't really as you know Pat we don't really have much insight into Where these budgets come from and how how they're put together. They're sort of presented to us and again, the the option is cut something here or rejected altogether and There should be something in between where we could say she we'd like you to move money from here to here Or we'd like to do this and that and I understand there are constraints on on doing that But the other thing is again a lot of Events or decisions that affect the town's finances are done by Committees and and entities other than the manager and the finance committee and for example just the planning board or the the zoning board can make a decision on You know new construction which has implications for the long-term finances of the town And yet none of that even comes before the finance committee as far as I'm aware so So I would I would like to see a more Coordinated budget and finance process where all of the various players Work together to understand What is the whole you know, what do we got what we can what can we spend if we spend it here? What do we got? What do you propose we cut there? And right now it's it's it's too many parts and no central discussion or central Conversation about do we really need to do that or is that the wisest? You know thing we should do so So I would other than the you know the process that I mentioned I'd say if we could somehow Have a more coordinated Annual process it might help Sarah Hi So I'm just going to give you a little background on the question that I'm going to ask you which is that I Differ from the rest of this committee and that I I don't feel that we should be able to each counselor to be able to come up with a an unknown question for For people who are interviewing for a position I Think that that and also I don't agree with follow-up questions. I feel like that is leaving open Counselors to try to elicit from a volunteer that's volunteering to work on a board or committee to expose a political agenda or push towards a political agenda and I feel that people who are volunteering on Fincom and on ZBA and planning board are actually people who are volunteers who are Should be able to connect the dots and they think well and they work well with each other and they can come up with Facts That they can then present to town council for us to make decisions I don't think that your politicians yet, and I don't think that you should be treated as such So my question to you is Grape nuts or Lucky Charms I'm sorry. It's great. Grape nuts or Lucky Charms. Grape nuts are Lucky Charms. I Don't think I don't eat either actually I'm not a big cereal fan That's a good answer still revealing still revealing Is that sufficient? She doesn't you want to follow up question? You just said that you don't agree with five questions. I don't agree with it, but it's is the rules Everyone seem to enjoy that question. Maybe you will as well Can you can you give me five? Different uses for a stapler other than its intended use I guess you could I can give you one which is you could like injure yourself You know some people like to injure themselves I Guess you could you could use it as a Training device by you know kind of whirling it around or throwing it up in the air You could see how far you could throw it and see if you could set a new personal record every day I don't know. I think I think I've come up with three The previous candidate came up with four, but we gave her some help No, no pressure. Thank you. No pressure Darcy. Do you have a follow-up question? Or a second question for Bob Okay Any of the members of the committee present? I have one question quickly Your position is non-voting how do you find that do you find that that's a frustration you find It's not an issue and you feel like even though you're not a voting member that your voice is heard You feel like it matters that you're there What's your experience with the fact that you're a non-voting member of this committee? So First my experience has been that I feel like I'm a full member of the committee. I feel like my voice is heard I put proposals out there some of them are accepted some of them are rejected like every other proposal that members of the committee make so I don't feel that Being a non-voting member means you're not a full member in terms of the deliberations of the committee. I actually support the notion that a Volunteer member of the public should not be a voting member for two reasons one is that I see my role as representing the residents and not Being political trying to be apolitical and Trying to think of what's the right thing for the residents of the town and Secondly, I'm not an elected member. I don't have Constituents I don't have people Sending me emails saying I want you to vote this way. I want you to vote that way and I shouldn't be I don't think it's up to me to Be political or to you know make a take a vote on on a subject I mean the the chair does Ask for whether or not the resident members support The motion that's being voted on or not. So we have a chance to voice our opinion But I think it's actually a good idea that we're not voting members. Okay, so I See no more questions. And so I want to thank you again about coming. No problem We will be delivering shortly and I will let you know what the decision of the committee is But I think on behalf of the committee. I want to thank you for your two years of service already and I'll be in touch soon Okay, just so you know, I'm leaving tomorrow to be out of town for a few days So, okay, I will probably be back in touch with you later today. Okay, great. Thanks Sure for the members of the public who are glued to their TVs or watching this That's some other day I'm taking out my mask because we no longer have anyone present in the room And if someone does come in we will put them back on Yes, that's what I'm doing and my committee members are free to do whatever they wish Not to put any pressure on you all but That's all right, it's all right just so people understand state for question. Okay, I Think we should we on the agenda. We're going immediately to deliberations. So I'd like to do that. That's the next item on the agenda And I've learned from doing this in the past that what we is I think a wise way of proceeding is to first discuss each candidate Briefly and see if people have any thoughts or reactions or and then to go to the question of what we want to do in terms of the vote so I'm going to begin with candidate Rika Clement And I'm going to open the floor and Darcy you can I Just speak up. Don't be shy if you have something either at this point or at some point in our deliberation Just because I don't know is there any way we can I think all she can do is just say I Would like to say something so Rika Clement reactions Mandy has her hand up so I'll begin with Mandy You know as always I'm always impressed with the candidates we get you know You know just forces me to acknowledge how Lucky this town is to have such qualified people willing to volunteer their time to help the government for Rika I would say you know she She showed an understanding of The the trade-offs that you have to make and what a budget signifies we've heard a lot about that over the last year And and she definitely recognized that how you spend your money does show the town and the residents What you prioritize and you know in this year of Difficulties that we've had I think that's an important thing to recognize That that's what we're struggling with is how to do that and so I appreciated her acknowledgement of that that You know it's hard, but but that is what we're trying to show through a budget Other members that Sarah, please go ahead I agree with Mandy Joe that I'm always impressed by just the quality of people that are willing to volunteer to help government And we are very very fortunate I was very impressed by her. I was impressed with I was impressed by her reaction to the stapler question I really thought that it didn't throw her at all and then I feel like she didn't feel insulted and she was Curious and playful and had some really great answers I also like the thing that she said about the process that she goes through in which to make a decision and Maybe it's just my recent mindfulness practice, but I really like the fact that it just seemed very common together She's gonna collect facts. She's gonna take into consideration what other people are are thinking she definitely knows her own mind She's gonna speak it and but my most favorite thing was and then she's gonna let go of the outcome and I feel that in order to Make the decisions that we make in order to listen to each other. I feel like that's one of the biggest things That allow us to still be able to listen to each other and to make intelligent decisions Is to put it out there and then to let go of the outcome So I I was I was very impressed with her her knowledge of budgets and also of them if how she expressed herself I have ditto as both to Mandy state Darcy and any thoughts that you wanted to share with us Enrique Clement my Comment is really directed more towards the chair And kind of regret one of the things that We usually ask and the chair should ask is whether the Member understands the timing of especially someone who's not served on it with Bob Higner would not be an appropriate question He knows he's been through it, but for someone who's never done this the Timing of budgeting so basically as it says in our selection guidance are you available for meetings particularly during the budgeting season? And so I I'm unhappy with myself for not just mentioning that I'm sure Given what we saw she read this carefully, and she took it into consideration, but it's I think a very good thing for us to Always bring that up. So I apologize for not bringing that up Also, I did not ask her if she had any questions about Fincom and our past practice has been to have a member of Fincom present I did reach out to the chair. He was not available Of course the last time we did this he was member of this committee. So it's not a problem, but Again, that's something that that I should have paid more attention to I anyway reached out And you just couldn't make it but we should at least ask and so again, that's on me but I agree with everyone a very impressive candidate and And I don't know what we're gonna do about that phone if there's a way to unplug it I would really like to do that Oh, that's true, I don't know All right. Well, I apologize to the public that's so we can't control the phone So if we could turn to mr. Hagner And again Comments reactions thoughts again just for the public's sake if obviously if they're we're paying attention He is up for he is has served for two years And so he is asking for a second term Any thoughts? reactions Comments on on Bob Higner Mandy I thought he showed his growth in answering the questions of the learning experience that he went through over two years and and Through answering the questions could show what he would bring How he would utilize that experience over the last two years serving on the committee going forward for another two that you know If we reappointed him that that he would have You know, there's no question. He's also qualified, you know So I appreciated the answers he gave about his thoughts on the last two years of his service I agree with Mandy Joe. I mean I you know having been on finance before Realized what a steep learning curve it is voting or not non voting, you know your first couple years And I think that I was impressed by The fact that you know, he did express how much he had learned and also that he had a takeaway from it That he could see where there were ways that he thought that the process could maybe work better. So I It you know, it obviously matters to him. So, you know, definitely qualified Yeah, and I've worked with him in the past year and I'm frequently surprised in a good way Because he brings up points Sometimes that coincide with mine, but more often I have I hadn't been thinking of and as somebody who is Naive finance committee member when he asked the question that I had written down that I was too shy to ask It it helps me to learn that I can trust myself more The other piece that really makes me Interested in in his thinking process is when he talked about changing the budget process. What he emphasized was collaboration And a real conversation and that's what I think is missing in government in our town government um, and and I think it's missing from the finance committee because No shame or blame intended everything is in its little pocket and and um While there's participatory budgeting and different things like that We're really challenged by those pockets and um and I you know, so I I feel very strongly that I would like to see him reappointed Darcy any thoughts you would like to add Thank you. Um I think listening to him it reminded me My role as a counselor And my duty as a counselor to try and Communicate to constituents the challenges we face Because he touched on a number of things and and pat picked up on it as well The balkanization of our budget process the the difficulty of having a real dialogue Um, also though the the long-term liabilities that we face that people just don't think about But we do certainly people on fincom think about it, but we as counselors need to think about it. I think we need to communicate that to our constituents that there are some real um Long-term liabilities that we have to we struggle with that we can't just ignore we can't just So opab infrastructure the cost of actually fixing roads um And then the fact that the budget process itself often it's in the hands of other bodies and um, so there's no solutions It's easy solution But I think part of it I got the sense to myself speaking for myself that that I have a do a better job Trying to help people understand And understand the challenges um I feel also strongly that that this is a candidate who um as we it stayed in our selection guides that we give preference to Someone who's served the first or second term And while I've gone on the record saying that that is a I agree with that It does not bind our hands. We're perfectly free to not follow that, but I think in this case If I may speak out of turn I'm going to follow pat's lead. I guess This he strikes me as someone who is eminently suited for a second term given his experience his thoughtfulness um In another universe rica clement would be candidate number one But in this case where we have someone seeking a second term who has obviously done the job and um Has been so thoughtful I am leading very strongly to Offering him a second term Sarah, please go ahead Okay, no, I just you're perfectly free to speak up Um, we've talked about both candidates I don't know if Darcy has anything else to add, but I'm willing to entertain a motion at this point Um from a member of the committee Or I could make a motion, but I prefer to come from a member of the committee But I'm uh prepared for a motion If you just hit the mic, please I move that we reappoint Robert Haigner to the finance committee as a non-voting resident member For a term to last Starting july 1 2021 Yes, there are two terms June 30 2023 30th 2023 that's why I didn't want to make the motion. No, no. Thank you both Mandy actually So the motion has been made to um offer bop haigner a second term Um beginning july 1 2021 and ending june 30 2023 Um, is there a second? Yes, narcy Yes, did I misstate that I apologize it should be recommending to the town council Thank you, darcy. I'm recommending to town council that The town council reappoint bob haigner to a term as we just stated. Thank you darcy Is there a second? I'll second if no one else wants their name on it All right, so we have a motion. It's been seconded any further discussion Sarah, please So this seems awkward, but I think I'm always awkward in this committee, but I I am I definitely value Bob's experience, but I'm going to break out and just say I You know one of the things that I I usually don't support So george and I are a little bit is that I was so impressed by her That I would have rather picked her as as my first choice Simply because as maybe joe sometimes has you know said sometimes there's someone who comes out of the blue that Um, you think is just a better fit and I don't think that I ever felt that way until today But there you go. You can learn a lot of things. I just felt like she was just an amazing fit No disrespect about at all, but I'd so Okay Going around trying to figure out other ways to get her involved Well, I think that's something that the chair will certainly attempt As he does and often with other Candidates who are eminently suited suited for a position, but there only there's only one position or two positions I do try to reach out to folks and suggest other But I can hear you Mandy so I'm going to in some sense support sarah At the same time. I'm going to vote to recommend bob although I think If we weren't just coming out of covid I would Be I would probably vote for you know support rica. Um You know, I I've always struggled as many, you know sarah just acknowledged about the preference for reappointment But the last year and a half of budgeting has been so um Hard and we're going into a year that will be so hard that I While I was very impressed with rica and I would love to see her as the non-voting member I I do have to sway myself. I am swaying myself. I would say to that Lack of a learning curve that bob will bring in this year when we're looking to try and add new programming and finding ways to fund all these different things that We In reality don't have the money to do You know that that the learning curve. He's already undertaken. I think will be valuable that I think it's just the wrong time for rica unfortunately because I Absolutely agree with you sarah that that I was extremely impressed and any other time She would have my vote Any for i'm sorry darcy, please I see no hands raised so no further comments. We have a motion. It's been seconded I'm going to proceed to a vote and um Uh, I'm going to start in alphabet. Let's see if I can do alphabetical order um Pat d'angeles. Hi Darcy duma Mandy johannike Hi The chair is an I sarah Schwartz now So the vote is four to one against To recommend bob hechner to a second term Very good Next item on our agenda is a A more the moratorium temporary moratorium bylaw that bylaw is in your packet um, I think if thank you, mandy and She will make it larger. Thank you very much Darcy, I am hoping that you have access To it as well so that you can see it You also we also need access to The legal opinion that was provided by kp law that also is in your packet And um, I don't think we have split screen capacity Okay, well we're going to try and do split screen here, but um, I do have A physical copy. I have my computer open if someone needs to share But hopefully everyone present and hopefully Darcy Can access both the bylaw and the legal um comment by The town attorney on that bylaw Our task is to Decide whether we wish to recommend this to the town council as clear Consistent and actionable that is our task Not to discuss the merits or demerits of this bylaw, but whether it is We can declare it clear consistent and actionable I think the attorney decision addressed both actionability and clarity And so i'm going to suggest we use that as our guidance Though obviously the members are free to speak as they wish And so i'm going to open the floor to discussion Um, please go ahead So if i understand you Darcy, you there's been you believe there's been a prior review By the town attorney Well, it is the practice of this committee when a bylaw is presented to it um To have it reviewed formally by the town council and to have either the You often it's an email Submission this in this case we were given something on letterhead But some kind of written document that we can access and the public can access um, and so I think that was My reasoning i'm not aware of a prior review. I've not seen a physical copy or any kind of Statement by anyone about that What I did and what we Do as practice here is through the town manager ask The town attorney to review it. They have done that. They've given us a written Statement and that's what we look at We're also free just to apply our own Thoughts and reactions to the questions of action ability clarity and consistency But with bylaws in particular Actionability is something that that's important and my reading of this and i'm welcome to be Disagreed with is that this is actionable the attorney makes it clear that this as it stands Could be enacted So it does seem to be actionable The issue of clarity. However, they do raise some concerns And I don't know how much time we want to spend on this It would seem and also there's the question of what we can do actually And I don't know if anyone has any thoughts on that Normally we have the sponsors present, but since this is by citizen petition It's not clear that we can actually do anything about the language Other than simply note concerns if we have them or maybe vote Yeah, or nay, and then if if got to get to the council at that level Language perhaps could be changed by the council, but I don't think we can do that Given the nature of this particular submission all we can do is have vote on it And I can note in the report any concerns we have Yeah, um Based on the attorney's Written opinion, I would agree that It is actionable, but it is not clear So i'm not sure I can I could vote to declare it clear I think I could vote to declare it declare it. I don't even know Consistency I'd have to go back to our what is consistent But I could certainly declare it actionable To your other question, you know, this was put forth by a voter petition under state law I I don't think we as a committee Should have any right to change the language that the voters asked us to vote on Now once it gets to council the council always has a right to amend stuff, but as a committee, I don't think we Have a right to do that. I think that's what they asked us to vote on That's what we put forth to the council and we as a committee say it's either actionable or not It's clear or not. We could go through and say based on the attorney's um opinion of clarity if the council You know desires this could be a recommended Motion to amend Given the recommendations of both the planning board and the crc. I don't know whether it's A wise use of time to do that I would say I'm open to thoughts on that But I think that's as far as we could go is just say to the council Here are some potential Motions to amend that would might make it clearer but we I think We should keep in mind that the planning board Recommended not adoption by a six zero vote and crc recommended not adoption by a four to one vote In terms of our use of our time Based on the attorney's decision based on my understanding what a bylaw should look like my recommendation to The council or to anyone who wish this to Be a bylaw would be to strike the first paragraph completely It's not appropriate. I mean it's perfectly well to be argued and understanding the rationale is fine But as a bylaw I would think normally that would not be that first paragraph would come out The sentence 180 six month moratorium The issue of wood Whether it simply should be This moratorium Provides that Simply a statement of fact Is a concern the attorney raised and what the meaning of wood would be So I would I would change that or suggest that that would be a change that should be considered The the bulk of the bylaw itself the actual Contents is I don't have any nothing to say about that Um, the final question is the last two sentences or the last sentence Where it says If the town is not able to implement amended zoning bylaws addressing all of the areas listed in this section The 480 days then there will be a 90 day extension of the temporary moratorium And again, is this a matter of content or a matter of of of just pure clarity? Maybe it's a matter of content But the attorney raised the question and I have to agree that it would be absolutely uncertain What it would mean to address all of the areas That would be open to debate to say the least So maybe that's we just leave that and the council could Debate that if they wished I think the question for us is whether we even want to spend Time to make recommendations to make this clear Which would be one option the other would be To vote on whether it's clear consistent actionable And I would agree that there are at least two areas where clarity is lacking or at least a concern So does that mean I would vote against it as not being clear consistent actionable I don't know I really don't know I mean we could vote it and then in the in the in the report I could simply point out things that we have concerns about Or we could vote it and depending on the vote goes I guess it could be here's some concerns or here's why we didn't vote it clear consistent and actionable I don't want to spend a lot of time on this, but I I have four other members on this committee. So And Darcy we haven't heard from you. I don't know if you have any thoughts Yes, no, that is correct. You're absolutely right. Sarah. I'm sure go ahead. Okay Sarah So I'm just thinking that it wouldn't hurt because it is our goal, you know clear consistent and actionable to I don't think that it would be Disrespectful when we send it to the council just to if we I mean just like we would with a spelling mistake I think because it's our job to make sure that if something is clear consistent actionable Couldn't we in our report just write the the two areas of concern that we have because it You know the sponsors would know ahead of time. Yeah, when it gets to council, I think it might Direct some of our conversation or be more constructive Well, I think yes, I hear you I think that whatever the vote is that I would put in a report A summary of of the discussion I've identified three areas actually that Based on the attorney review that I have concerns about and Depending on how we voted it would either be The reason we voted in the negative is because of x y and z or if we voted in the affirmative I I would say and the concerns were raised about the vote was affirmative But there were concerns raised about a b and c The three things that I've highlighted are and probably the reason why I will not vote to declare this clear Is that the first paragraph should be stricken? I have a problem with the word would I'm not sure what that means here And I have a problem with the the last sentence where it seems completely unclear what Would satisfy that statement So I'm probably leaning towards voting against this simply on those grounds If the committee decides that it is clear consistent actionable in my report, I would just note those three things And I'd note anything else that people wanted to note, but that's my thought Mandy So I'd like to make a motion and then I'll speak to why I'm making the motion I'm making All right The motion is to declare the Article 16 temporary moratorium for 180 days on building permits for construction of residential buildings with three or more dwelling units Get that down. It's right up there Actionable But not clear or consistent So that's the motion. That's the motion. I think if there if it gets a second I'll explain why I say both of those Seconded just to hear your reasoning So I pulled up the revised guidelines for review clear consistent and actionable that gol has adopted And clarity is a measure will be found clear if it is understandable comprehensible and unambiguous The gol committee will be the ultimate arbiter of whether a measure is clear However, the gol committee will seek to collaborate with sponsors. We've talked about that part Yes, if a sponsor will not be required to change language refusal to do so may result in a recommendation that the measure is not clear Along with a recommendation for change that would make the language clear So I think that goes to what we've been talking about is the report could discuss what the Town attorney said About recommendations, but because this is a voter petition. We just don't feel like we can even ask for language to be changed at this point Consistent a measure will be found consistent if the content does not contradict itself The form is consistent with the form and or organization of similar measures i.e. numbering system for bylaws and stuff like that and I think the preamble and just that it has no numbers Of any of the paragraphs or bullet points or anything makes it inconsistent with how we just do Bylaws so that's why I chose inconsistent actionable A measure will be found actionable if it does not conflict with massachusetts general law the amherst home rule charter Or any other law by law policy or resolution applicable to the town We've got a town attorney opinion that it is a valid zoning bylaw And so I think that In my opinion Requires us to declare it actionable Sarah Couple questions and one is does gol have Like a certain procedure for when we have These coming from the the public Am I just being feeling lost that it feels like I feel like i'm floundering because Usually we can hammer out these things and usually you know We can pretty much make them clear consistent and actionable when they go To the council so I guess i'm just wondering if we have a different set of Rules when it's several, you know, it's just the public in general And also, you know, will though when it goes to town council will people who brought this forward be able to hammer things out with us in a Uh constructive way Manny, please In in the past as george would confirm we've had them sitting here at least with resolutions and all and it's normally one or two People the problem is this with a voter petition under Petitioning rules is approximately 200. I believe is the ultimate number that we're certified it You can't get it. I'm assuming you can't get agreement of all 200 or speak to all 200 That's that's part of the issue. I think at least with me is Yes, we've got counselors who were sort of sponsors ish But they made clear at the public hearing for crc and planning board that they didn't speak for everyone That signed that petition everyone had their own But that's the language they signed and so I feel very uncomfortable trying to hammer that out Because it would only be one subset of everyone who signed it and everyone who signed it I feel expects this language To be what is initially presented on the motion sheet at the council And then the council can do what it It wants with it like it can even if it comes out a gol with Language that if it was proposed by the planning department planning department agreed to council can still say Yeah, we don't like that. We're moving it and changing it. Um, so but I guess that's why I'm uncomfortable Making any changes until it goes to the council because there's 200 plus people as far as I know that Asked for this specific language Please go ahead Well, Darcy, there's not a normal procedure in the sense that anything that comes before us the sponsors are invited to attend They don't have to attend And sometimes they do and sometimes they don't And then we engage in a conversation and we work very hard and I think we've had great success In achieving agreement With the sponsors present, but nothing requires the sponsors to be present and nothing requires us to Make a change to You know work with them in that way, but we do This in this case is simply not given the nature of this Document there's no way we can engage in that kind of Voluntary process So it's going to fall to the council or members of the council who perhaps support this To do what they want to do at the council level, but at the committee level I think Mandy spelled out pretty clearly What we can and cannot do So the motion is And I think what I like about the motion is that it distinguishes the three categories and says Offers the idea that while this is we agree is actionable The motion suggests that it lacks clarity and consistency And she has identified if I'm correct three areas where that is the case It's not consistent in the sense of the form in which bylaws are normally presented and the lack of numbering It's not consistent in the language of the preamble, which is not appropriate to a bylaw It's unclear in the use of the word would Under 180 day six month moratorium And finally it's ambiguous in the last two sent in the last sentence So that's where we have the Specifics, I think the question for the committee and the only question is as a member of the committee Do you agree with that analysis and if you do then I assume you would support the motion If you don't then I assume you would not support the motion I'm sorry, I'm sorry Darcy Darcy go ahead No, no our our charge is to declare something clear consistent and actionable those three are different as Mandy's pointed out to us. There are three very different things And um, all we're doing is giving the council advice We're saying to the council in our opinion Whatever the vote turns out to be could be five zero could be three to two Or whatever four to one in the opinion of a majority of the council of the members of this committee This document that you have in front of you is A b and c and the motion here is to suggest that while it is a namely actionable There are issues With b and c And that's something for us to decide. I'm sorry go ahead Well, yeah, no it's going to go to the council no matter what we do Well from our perspective actually it is In this committee, I mean, we this is an unusual committee We're into the dotting eyes crossing teeth and it is actually important To this committee at the council level you may be right It may I Okay Sarah please so I guess what I'm thinking is you know, we're we got this third year because We're trying to figure out all the rules, right? And how things actually are clear consistent and actual even in our charter so I guess my My thought and I'm not even sure if it's a question But in this case then it almost seems like voters bringing something forward together actually become penalized because Over if it's over say 60 people or 50 people what council is saying is there's absolutely no way that we can reach out to all of you Or try to get you in one room or give you the benefit of gols expertise to make something clear Consistent and actionable So I guess I'm just wondering since we deal with rules. Is this something that maybe we want to think about I mean is or can we even I mean in order to say like if one one of these is brought to us again You know is could we have some kind of procedure where We could even ask people like over a certain amount of of people to name Two people to speak for them. I just I feel like we're penalizing people Because we're saying we just can't work with this. So that's just my question doesn't have to be answered now Yeah, and I was going to comment on something similar in that I don't care how many people sign this they have some agreement because they put out this document So I think that they could have representatives or all 200 could show up I doubt that would happen But I think that we could ask for representatives to address issues of the issues that the committee has And I think that at this point it just as a council member voting on the moratorium I couldn't support it because of the things that that have come up about clarity and consistency Um, so I want those things addressed. I don't think we're penalizing If we didn't invite anybody to speak and we had three counselors. I think it was Darcy and Dorothy and Kathy and none of them are well Darcy you're here but um, yes so it's Either we need to go ahead and and try to hammer those things out with Darcy or we bring it to the council Which I think is the best thing to do and say this is actionable However, these are concerns and we want you to recognize those concerns before you vote So I you know so I don't yeah, I think that that is our task and It is complicated by the fact it's a citizen petition But that's the nature of a citizen petition And I think At the council level that can be addressed but at our level um All we can do is offer our advice to the council on this particular document And that's something we need to vote on. We have a motion in front of us. It's been seconded Any further discussion? Then I'm going to go to vote and I'm going to go on alphabetical order again Pat DeAngelis I um Darcy Dumont, okay Um, manny johannickie I Um, the chair is an I sarah schwarz. I So the vote is four in favor of the motion and one abstaining um, the motion is to uh recommend to the town council actually to declare To the town council that this bylaw is actionable, but is not clear and consistent And I will in my report identify those specific areas that we've spoken about And um, then the council we have to council to decide. Yes Say that we are inviting uh residents who you know petition supporters or whatever who um to speak To be at the meeting so they can they can uh weigh in on this or or their representatives could weigh in on it because Dar Darcy's here and she'll notice to say that but it seems to me they if we're dealing with citizen's petition We need to somehow or other get out the information That when we engage in this process, we need Some attendance from the people not all of them I don't know I hear you, but I'm not sure that that's the job of this committee or of the report that I'll be writing I think I'm probably not going to do that, but I'm open to I will note the challenge that this presents. I will note the discussion that At some point we might want to come back to as a committee You know because this is the first time in my I think it's true And the first time we've had to deal with something as a citizen petition Is there some other process we could conceivably come up with I'm dubious, but that's something we should talk about And I'll note that But I don't think I'm going to issue a On invitation one way or the other Okay. All right We have in front of us also in your packet and I urge you to Mandy's been great as always to get this up on the screen, but we have a A citation that is up for our review And it's been in your packet. Hopefully you had a chance to look at it. This actually was originally Brought to my attention through the town manager's report I shared that with a fellow counselor and I shared a draft of the citation And so right now it's in draft form. It's been looked at by three members of this committee And at the moment, I think all three names are on this but that's open obviously to Discussion but at the moment we have um On the screen and Darcy. Hopefully you have at home access to the Citation it reads citation and recognition of officer Rita Curley Ney Contardo upon receiving the law enforcement exemplary performance award from the massachusetts department of mental health Um, I think we need to go through this I I think Carefully it's been Mandy has gone through it. I've gone through it. Pat's looked at it One concern very practical concern and I reached out to the Chief And with a question to which he provided a email response, which is also in your packet. It's in on share point And I'm going to try and dig it up on my computer As usual my computer decides to log off Because I wasn't paying attention to it gets offended If I believe it's in I hope it's in here Rito Rita Contardo dash Curley That's what the chief suggested and I You know beyond just whether you know support for this or whatever. It's just a practical question She now goes by the name Rita Curley, but when this incident took place And as the chief says in his email, she's known to many people in the community by her maiden name Contardo I don't know what to do I think we should go by her current name. Yeah, the other thing that I I have a question of is when was she given this award? I don't know the answer to that and that's a good because the incident happened Over a year ago. Yeah, and I'm interested in when the award was given So my memory from the town manager's report is that because of kovat the dmh did not issue awards in 2020 they issued awards in 2021 for actions in both 20 and 2021 and that's why we were notified just a Month or so ago about her award that it was actually awarded Sometime this year The town manager included this this notification in his town manager report. I think two reports in a row, but June I'm not sure that one of the may ones. I know was one of them Yeah But your understanding is the the award was given in 2020 The incident. I'm sorry. Yeah incident in 2020 The award in 2021 Sierra, please Do we know how dmh? Does this award was the individual who? Was having extraordinarily distressing mental health issues were Did they say yes, please use this incident and I definitely want to commend the officer I just to someone who has had people in Their direct family who tried to commit suicide I I'm just interested as if the person who Was that distressed gave their permission And I I guess I also have I Have some problems with some of the wording You know about how this individual, you know was trying to attack an officer. I just I'm just wondering if we know how dmh Awards this When you ask how what do you mean? So does the department of mental health say to people We have this award that we give every year to a police officer Is there a police officer that has helped you and changed your life in a certain incident that you had Would you like to write about your incident and nominate this person? Or To social workers say I got this information and I've read this report and I Ali, I think this police officer did amazing I'm I guess I'm I just I don't want this. I'm just interested in whether or not the person who actually had an issue Right was was volunteering involved in the process And your reason for that is because I think that the things that are are some of the things that are worded in here What okay, the first thing is is when you try to commit okay and committing suicide is a wrong term When you are in that desperate situation That's a very personal situation I I am of a mother and a granddaughter of of people who Have been in that situation. I don't really know of too many people who Volunteer that up and I would just feel And I'm just uncomfortable with some of the competitive wording and I'm just Well, I think it's good We can go through the wording, but I think you're raising a larger concern That you're uncomfortable with this citation If it didn't actually involve the permission or engage the The person who was the And even though the person is not identified by name And so it's you still have that concern Yes, because it's their life circumstances Well, their life circumstances through their actions Intersected with the life circumstances of a whole group of people on that day Not just officer Curley, but a whole host of other people including I assume bystanders Who suddenly found their lives Impacted by the actions of an individual So many people were impacted by this event Because it was in public and presented a threat to First of all the individual but also to the public at large And as we see in the citation eventually posed a threat to officer Curley herself So I guess I'm struggling with the idea that somehow We have complete privacy to anything that transpires in our life and cannot be part of any public Acknowledgment unless we give permission I would agree if a name was used I would also perhaps be open to the thought that Perhaps some of the details could be removed That might identify it on a particular date Or place But I really do struggle with the idea that somehow You have a right to basically Control whatever is said or spoken about you I that I just struggle with so But I do hear your concern and perhaps that is something we're going to need to talk about some more The language specific language we can go through Um, if we decide to proceed Um, but there may be a larger issue at issue at here. Mandy um I understand the concern sarah and and as one of the people's whose names on this I would support Removing Some of the more identifying information. I know we've got a specific date in here Which given police reports is probably really easy then to identify an actual person by and I think we need to be sensitive to Those issues. Um, I also respect Your concern about the language used because individuals who find themselves Having reached a mental crisis and health crisis at this point The the descriptions used need to definitely be more sensitive than maybe we were In this in this citation Um You know and it's not something I had thought of Particularly in looking at specific wording. So I definitely support looking at the specific wording to Lesson the ability to potentially through this citation Um, identify having people be able to identify who was involved. Um, who was going through the crisis and also Fix the language to better reflect the um The mental state and intentions of that person, you know, it can be very cruel to to use words like attack at that point even if that's from One officer's point of view that that's what was happening from another point of view It was something else. So I I think we should try and work on maybe Fixing the language there Unfortunately, what we cannot fix is that the town manager included Nearly this identical language because it was taken from the town manager's report So this language was included in a town manager report that is already public Um, so while we can fix this citation We can't fix That on our own. Um, but I support fixing the citation to address your concerns. They are very real and And worthy Very very Pat Oh microphone. Thank you. I want to thank you for bringing up Sharing your perspective on the personal nature of this and it made me realize I have in my little office at home A citation And and publicity that went out for my brother when He was police officer for winning Getting an award for bravery and different things at no point Was anything listed About the content of the engagement It didn't say any it just said, you know on you know, he did this and he's getting this award So at this point, I feel like Most of this can be removed Um, so that's It really helped me to think about that. He she deserves this award No doubt But all the details are not what should be shared publicly Um, any of them Okay I think I would um Say that Most likely the time manager included the level of detail that he did because he was pretty much copying it from The citation. No, I'm not judging his action. It's out there. It doesn't mean that we have to continue And I honestly think that if we don't remove that and just Find a neutral way Not not neutral word. We're saying hey, this is incredible and this is how we would like police officers to act I understand that But I want my I will not be able to keep my name on it if we have the incident described in detail No, I hear you. I hear sarah And I think we need to go through it carefully if if people are if you are willing and hopefully we can do it in a reasonable period of time Um, I think well, let's just go through it. I think it's important to me as a sponsor that There be sufficient detail at least some in some form to understand The nature of why she got the award So but I agree that the devil is going to be in the details. So let's let's go through it sarah I just want to say that I I don't think that I can support this even if we Change the language. So I would leave it up to the rest of you To decide how you want to do that. I'm going to excuse myself Okay So the minutes should note that at 1210 Councilor Schwartz left the meeting You have the same problem I do with your computer. Thank you So I would like to go through this and I would like to See if we can resolve it What I'm hearing is that The level of detail is is too much and needs to be removed perhaps almost all of it or most of it to Protect the confidentiality of the individual involved and I think the So that's what I'm hearing Again, I'm back to the question of how to refer to officer curly Thoughts, please I mean with that, I think we should go with what the chief recommended So contardo dash curly Yeah I guess my problem with that is that it's not actually how she refers to herself We could skip the dash Yeah, you could Yeah, I don't know Pat Read a curly Read a curly And then keep the name contardo and then through the rest of it just refer to as read a curly Or would you just just say I I wonder if given that it's almost 12 30 and we have some other things to do, you know, I I would love to see this at the council meeting on monday night, but if we're going to be rewriting the whole thing Um, we might not want to do that in a public meeting. We might need to confer later Um, all right, I wouldn't mind that because it would give me a chance to look at how my brother's thing is written And I think that would be very helpful. Yeah, okay So I'm getting a sense and certainly darcy speak up if you disagree that from the The consensus from the committee that they would like to postpone this for a future meeting and give people a chance to Think more about it Could we take a two minute break? Um Yeah, I'd like to see if our other committee member might have stayed in the building Since we've moved off this issue and if she would be able and capable of joining us for the next part. Okay, let's uh For a moment. I'm going to hit the pause button Actually, which is the pause button? This is no, that's the stop this one's the pause. Thank you Thank you Darcy. I appreciate your patience we Hopefully you were able to enjoy that break too Um, good. We are recording again. So we are back and My understanding is that what oh, I'm going to encourage is the sponsors review this and bring it back to go well with the Taking into consideration the comments that we've made about the level of detail and And we will take it up We and perhaps at our next meeting Which is a week from today Need I remind you and so that's the next item update on d.a.b applications in process um We did eventually we had 18 candidates But uh three withdrew Four um did not submit s o y's So we actually have 11 candidates who have submitted s o y's And given the nature of the charge um, which requires that there be No more than two residents two members from any given district and at least one from every district We will face a bit of a challenge. We um We're going to be uh, we're not going to have a lot of choice The only district where there is really a We have multiple candidates that will require our close review is district one The other districts have um either only two applicants or Had three applicants and only two submitted in s o i Yes, we have we do have a applicant for all five districts And we have two we have two possible a place so We're going to end up with eight It's the maximum number we can come up with at the moment Which is sufficient for quorum and sufficient for this body to get started And then at that point I don't know what we'll decide. I'm not sure we're going to decide it today Whether I think maybe it makes sense to simply we have our meeting It's been posted the s o i's are available So we will proceed with that and we will make our decision on the 23rd And I guess what I'm just telling you in advance is that no matter what transpires between uh now and then We'll only be able to fill eight of the nine positions That's not saying we'll fill all Eight positions, but I think it's likely we will but only eight is possible So we will be short one, but there will be a representative from all five districts Mandy I'm sorry Mandy first and then Darcy All right Darcy first Why what I'm sorry We can't appoint nine in the current configuration because of the fact that Two in each district and one it comes up one short So just a mathematical Is it a clarity that two districts only have one applicant and three districts have a minimum of two applicants? And and our charge says we cannot appoint more than two from any one district So even though we have 11 applicants right given those restrictions and who submitted Eight's the maximum we'll be able to appoint is that right that is correct. Thank you So that's the reason Darcy. It's just a matter of the math and the and the charge language What i'm assuming is that going forward after the 23rd we could still solicit A ninth candidate, but it would have to be from A specific district, which would be my memory is I believe it's district four Yeah So I know we have a process that says that the names get published a week before the meeting Which is why in theory today is the last day people could submit so i's for it and all Given that we're not actually interviewing I feel like I should bring up the option You know, we created the process we can change our own process, right? That if an so I is submitted before say monday Or sunday night, you know so that you could modify an agenda on monday for a wednesday agenda or again So I would this committee be willing to accept that In an attempt to be able to fill all nine Or frankly, you know, we we declare pools sufficient because they in theory had more than two applicants per and if we've ended up with just two You know to give us a potentially a more sufficient pool. I just thought I'd bring up that option I know I know I just see what the committee thought about that That would mean going back to the four people haven't submitted and say Despite of what we said in spite of all the rules in spite of right that You can still submit and I just have i'm comfortable with that I think I'd be more comfortable with going forward with the process as we've defined it And then communicating to the council once again and to the public once again That we're still looking for a ninth member, but this body can certainly fulfill its duties with eight members It has a quorum So I'm not really eager to do that follow that tack Because everyone else has done what we asked them to do and now we're going to say well, you know So I that's my thought Please darsie go ahead We had 18 darsie Four did not see we had 18 18 submissions and four did not four did not submit and three withdrew Okay Right. They did not submit they were Right Yes I don't know what they've I mean they fill in on the calf what they choose to fill in But uh, yes everyone submitted a calf and the calves I believe are have been available to you all along They've been available to every member of this committee It provides demographic information as well. That's how we That's how I figure out race gender age is from the calf Because well, yeah, I understand Mandy, please Yeah, so I think we have to remember that we changed the calf form within the last three years And so some of the finance people that submitted calves submitted a calf in the old form And we weren't requiring them to submit a new one because we as a council have changed the calf form and so what you might have been looking at especially with Mr. Hegner who the calf was from two years ago when he got appointed is an old CAF form And all the DAB ones will be on the new form Right the current the current calves do not Allow for do not invite any kind of Discussion of your merits or making your case They're simply an expression of interest for a particular body or bodies And basic demographic information That's crucial to this committee and to the council in its effort to achieve diversity On its on its bodies and boards So that's what the calves are today You every council member gets a copy of every calf for a council appointed body I believe I hope I place the calves in the packet I should have but Obviously you have them And as many pointed out there may be still a few people from the old days Can't be many But there might be a few under the old system where yes, you could and people did Submit a statement equivalent somewhat equivalent to a statement of interest But our current procedure we're very explicit about it And we're also very explicit we send them a description of what we expect in an SOI And we make it clear why it's being solicited and they're reminded I actually reminded there were three reminders sent to all the candidates including one Sunday, I think it was Sunday night so Just four people for whatever reasons simply chose not to submit and three people reached out to me in advance Which I appreciated and for various reasons that they had to withdraw So That's why we ended up with 11 Well, I will discuss. I mean, I mean, I can I guess at some point. I don't have them in my head at the moment In that would be inappropriate in a public meeting because we don't disclose non-applicant names So if if a committee member or even a councillor wants to desire to compare the calves that were submitted to the SOIs that were submitted that person can figure it out on their own But to disclose that in a public meeting would be inappropriate. Okay, I hear you So, yes, you can figure it out there. See if you wish Um, we have two sets of minutes. Um, I've looked at them. I've made very minor changes. Emily has done her usual good job I'm sorry If you wish, um, I would like to entertain. I'm sorry That's all right. They're here. I think if it's the most recent one it might show the changes Um, I hopefully I I think I took out. Are you on share point or are you on? Okay, well, it should be here. Well, um, they were very minor changes Um, nothing substantive But um, I would like I'm going to make a motion that we approve the minutes of may 19 And june 2nd 2021 as amended by the chair Is there a second second by de angeles any discussion Hearing none. I'm going to go immediately to a vote and this time. I'm not going to go an alphabetical order Um, I'm going to start with mani johannaki. I the chair is an eye Darcy duMont Thank you. And last but not least pat de angeles The vote is four zero with one member absent to approve the minutes of may 19 and june 2nd And again our appreciation. Thanks to emily our note taker um I have no items unanticipated future agenda item very simple june 23. We will be dealing with Dab It's possible. We may have one citation. I will see what the sponsors do Um And then on june 30. It is my intention to chair to i'm sorry mani Um Maybe i z if we can get the opinion back from the attorney now. Here's a good case I I have utmost respect for the town manager. I have a small sense of Very small sense of the enormous amount of things he has to deal with on a daily basis But I have sent him two emails Um asking him just to confirm That he has received So maybe what I'm going to do is just go upstairs. I have to go upstairs anyway Um, and I'm just going to stick my head in the door in the middle of a meeting and scream No, he has not he's usually good about this, but I sent him the iz as soon as I got it Asked for him to confirm heard nothing sent him a separate email and said paul you're great. Would you just confirm you got it? I have heard nothing My assumption is he sent it on but I don't know so at the moment It's in limbo and it is something that does definitely need to be looked at by the town attorney Not that they all don't need to be looked at but so that's where it's at. I don't know. Thank you for that update I I asked because um As chair of crc. I've been informed that june 28th is zoning day at the council And iz is one of the ones we'd like to the planning department and And crc given that it's over with is hoping to get on for our first reading I'll call directly today and ask him if it's possible to get it You would like it for the june 23 June 23 gl is the only we'd need it for that in order to put it on as a first reading on june 28th okay, so and the goal of Everyone in planning is to get it on june 28th council for our first reading So you okay? I hear that. Thank you. So we need it And he should know that through agenda setting. No, I'm sure he does my information's come from lin No, I'm sure he does and he's probably sent it out. He just never got back to me that I will double check again So we could very well have that we would hope we would have that on our agenda to review For a clear consistent and actionable. We may have a citation But the bulk of the meeting will be spent on dab as I pointed out My understanding of the situation while my clear understanding situation is there's only one district where there's going to be District one so in in advance of the meeting you might want to look closely at district one And give you some thoughts And also please keep in mind our selection guidance Which we've adopted so And june 30 just I for the dab's yes I'm okay, but for the so is on share price. So I was already posted okay in the CAFs obviously I almost made that mistake the very first time Just just go and get it. I mean if you really have trouble, I'd be happy to but they're all there And they're both on share point. I believe as well But if you have trouble just reach out to me and I will get them to you Um Darcy this is for you, but also for the whole committee I'm devoting all of june 30 to the process that we've been working on That's the only item on the agenda. My hope is to get through it Um, and the only thing that could put a bollocks in that would be some Sudden appearance of a citation or whatever, but I'm going to do everything in my power to prevent that The june 30 is going to be focused hopefully only on the process that we've been working on in terms of recommendations to the Council on council appointed bodies And that takes us through june And then in july, I believe we're all going to cancun. Is that right? No, where would you be? Where do you want to go? You want to go to the artic? Okay. So it's it's on the website I just confirmed but that does not appear to be in share point right now the june 23rd packet It's not in share point. It is posted on the website though because I just pulled it from the website Because the chair didn't put it on there. That's right So I will put it on share point Okay, um Okay, but I will put it on share point any other so that's it Um, I'm prepared to adjourn this meeting Darcy, thank you for your presence and can you just confirm the public comment part? I keep making that. Thank you very much. Does someone have No, no, I'm serious. I Oh, that's right. The public is here Seeing no members of the public president. I declare this meeting of go well adjourned