 Good evening, everyone and welcome to tonight's meeting before we start the meeting We'll ask our city clerk to read the quote for the week. Thank you mayor To effectively communicate we must realize that we are all different in the way we perceive the world and use this Understanding as a guide to our communication with others Thank You Madam C. Clerk Call the 15th regular meeting of the Common Council of Order. Please call the roll Born here Berg excuse Serta here Davis graph Hannah here Kittleson here Clowness here Manny Myer here Montemayor Radke here Ryan here Susha Vanderweel and we're hassled 15 present Quorum is present next we have a pledge of allegiance all of them Ryan, would you please lead us I? Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God Indivisible with liberty and justice for all Thank You Alderman Ryan Approval of the minutes vice president Serta. Thank You honor. I move that we Approve the previous minutes of the Common Council and that the same be entered into the record Motion in second to approve minutes. Is there any discussion? There being none all those in favor, please say aye. Aye any opposed motion carries minutes are approved Resignations attorney McLean like your honor first one is the letter from Gerald L. Yachtman dated October 18th to the mayor advising that the due to his family schedule and current workload He's resigning from the board of examiners for building contractors All in sort of move to accept and file Motion second to accept and file any discussion on the resignation There being none all those in favor say aye. Aye any opposed motion carries the second resignation. I am going to Ask mr. Tom Holton to please come to the podium and read it to us Mr. Holton Thank you Honorable mayor Common Council Department heads fellow co-workers as of 5 p.m. December 13th 2006 I'll be resigning my position as director of Public Works and Engineering I'd like to thank every and each one of you for the opportunity to work with you and make in the city a great place to live Work and play it also has been an honor to serve the citizens of this great community Thank You Accepting file motion in second to accept and follow resignation any discussion all those in favor say aye. Aye any opposed motion carries One opposition want the mayor's appointments. We have none Confirmation of mayor's appointments turn clean. Thank you, Your Honor Hereby submit the following appointment for your consideration Federation Nancy Moudre to be considered for appointment to the library board to fill the unexpired term of David Galle and Eddie whose term expires 430 oh wait signed by the mayor That's for motion to confirm Second any discussion All those in favor say aye Any opposed motion carries appointment is confirmed Next we have proclamation Sheboygan area youth symphony 25th anniversary is Kim Miller Yes Please come forward This is one of the greatest things America gets to do is proclaim nice days like these We have a proclamation and I'd like to read it Whereas a Sheboygan era youth symphony is dedicated to enrich enriching the arts in Sheboygan County by providing classical and contemporary Archstrual music and whereas a Sheboygan era youth symphony is comprised of 60 young musicians in grades 6 to 12 From 16 different schools and 13 communities from around Sheboygan County including home school musicians Who all love music and joined together to perform three concerts of quality? orchestral music showcasing the outstanding talents of the musical youth of Sheboygan County and Whereas a Sheboygan area youth symphony is committed to music education and enhancing the development of music in our schools by providing a full Orchestra experience for our members which allows string and wind students to perform together as one ensemble When often the full orchestra experience and its vast amount of repertoire is unavailable for them within their own school music program And whereas a Sheboygan era youth symphony proudly presents represents Sheboygan and Sheboygan County in Wisconsin as they perform concerts nationwide to appreciative audiences and outstanding reviews when concert tours and Whereas a Sheboygan era youth symphony is a nonprofit voluntary Organization proudly supported in the community by the Sheboygan symphony orchestra and the Sheboygan area school district as well as by concert ticket sales fund-raising efforts and contributions by generous citizens good businesses and caring foundation grants Now therefore I won parades by virtue of the authority vested in me as mayor of the city of Sheboygan dear do hereby extend Congratulations to the Sheboygan area youth symphony in recognition of the 25th anniversary and urge all citizens to join me in attending the special Concerts which have been scheduled during this season which commemorates a silver anniversary of the Sheboygan area youth symphony Congratulations. Next we have public forum ma'am city clerk Yes, first on the list would be Jeff Schucho and Jeff. Can you give me your home address, please? Yes, my address is 2303 South 17th Street And you will have five minutes or thank you your honor council members and citizens I'm here today to talk about our efforts to acquire funding for a problem bird removal and Provide everyone with a end of the year assessment of our situation here in Sheboygan First I would like to thank our mayor Susan Hart and attorney McLean For their assistance in gathering information necessary for a grant and for a proper pledge Forum Although pledges I distributed to area businesses failed to raise funding needed to match state funds for a grant for Sheboygan This had to be carried out on very short notice because of the grant application Deadline and I would like to also point out that a lot of area businesses have Contributed considerable funding towards keeping their rooftops and properties clear of the birds Because of the potential health risk to citizens, especially children I felt the information I have gathered for the grant should be turned over to my alderman or any other alderman willing to address this issue on the council floor And I passed out a brief three-page summary of some of the activities that I've documented Through now the month of October and into November Those three photos briefly Are covering the algae blooms which are continuing to flourish surprisingly along our lakefront And this is been determined by myself to be from excessive gull droppings Page two is seen in a number of parks in go coming into the winter months now We're continuing to have my migratory birds all over our athletic fields Which isn't good especially for the football players because the droppings get into the clothing Which then gets taken into their homes and it's a very unhealthy situation Page three the city storms who are holding ponds are attracting migratory birds and great numbers which Also adds to the E. Coli bacterial runoff So what I had talked to the mayor's office about doing already and Susan Hart's Husband who is a biology teacher. They're interested in taking a look into the grant information that I have Accumulated and if my aldermen are interested I have copies of that I would love I would be more than happy to provide for your information. Thank you very much Thank you, Jeff Next on the list is Ernest Kepler Mr. Kepler, can you give me your home address please 25 33 Lakeshore Drive? Excuse me, and you will have five minutes there. Thank you One of Mayor Juan Perez's campaign promises was open government and citizen input From my viewpoint this has been working well in a progressive sort of ways since he took office He has demonstrated an open-door policy is accessible by phone If not, he has returned my phone calls within hours Most important is that various city committee meetings. I have attended citizen input and participation was welcomed and encouraged Fully supporting one of our dearest heritage is Americans freedom of speech However, just one week ago this very day on Monday, October 30th This all changed at the city finance committee meeting the key subject on the agenda was resolution number 80 0607 concerning the city storm water fee I Both as an individual and as a member of the Schwann County taxpayers Alliance have been strongly advocating The abolishment of this very unpopular and unnecessary fees since its inception Abolishment of the stormwater fee was one of marijuana Perez's key campaign pledges I gave this pledge my highest priority as to the reason why I supported him for election to the office of mayor of the city of Shabuigan, I Was hoping that the same intensity would be given to the abolishment of the stormwater fee It was given to save Sharon and Park concerning its selection for the site of the supposed forthcoming new police station To date. This has not been the case However, I am not here tonight to roast his honor on this issue Instead, I'm here to relate in my total anger Discussed and hurt have not been able to give my citizen input that last Monday's finance committee meeting At the outset it was stated by committee chairman all her person James Graff that only committee members would be allowed to speak There were at least five citizens all of whom wish to address the committee, but none were allowed This is in direct conflict of Mayor Perez's edict and Certainly against that of what has become common practice at committee meetings including the finance committee meeting I Felt that my constitutional right of freedom of speech was violated on the other hand Mayor Perez who is not a member of the finance committee was also present yet He was not only allowed to speak his input was sought after by the committee chairman Why didn't the mayor or any other committee member asked the chairman to allow the attending citizens to talk? The good news is the committee voted unanimously to abolish the stormwater fee The bad news is that they are recommending a five-year phase-out period The mayor stated he agreed with the committee. Is this really going to transpire? Or will it carry on and on such as has the abolishment of the wheel tax? At any rate if this council follows the recommendation of the finance committee the stormwater fee will not totally disappear until the end of 2011 three years after the current mayoral term of office. Thank you Thank you The next analyst is Ed Wachowski And mr. Wachowski, can we have your home address, please two six three two north a street shabuagan? And you will have five minutes or thank you I am representing the shabuagan taxpayers alliance I would not be speaking tonight if we were afforded the courtesy and respect to speak at last week's finance committee meeting But that was not the case since it was announced at the beginning of the meeting by the chairman that only the committee members would Be allowed to discuss the issues raised by the shabuagan County taxpayers alliance regarding the stormwater fee Last time we checked the mayor mr. Bebo and mr. Holton were not members of the committee So why would they permit it to speak at the meeting and we were not? This issue was held at a previous finance committee committee meeting so we could address the committee what happened? The public works committee moved at an earlier date to file our concerns as stated in the fourth page report submitted to them Without discussion One member of that committee admitted to us that she had not read the report, but she voted for it to file it anyway And now for the stormwater fee itself The stormwater fee is a 1.5 million dollar increase in the public works budget and has not been used to address the concerns that was presented to you by the public works management Public works management stated the fee was needed to meet new state and federal mandates that simply is not true How do we know? Because that fact is outlined in the reports that were submitted to the state by the public relations by the public works department Public works management stated the stormwater fee was needed to address flooding problems in shabuagan That is also not true. How do we know again? Because it is in stated in the same reports that shabuagan does not have flooding problems These reports were filed by the public relate public works department with the state Have you read the submitted reports to the state the slam report the SW PP and other reports. They're about that thick You probably didn't even know they existed while we have read them The E. Coli problem in the lake is not being addressed by the stormwater fee They know what caused the problem and it is not being corrected We have told we are we have been told by the public relations department will have to lay off employees if the stormwater fee is abolished We support firing the new employees hired and Paid for by the stormwater fee But they simply can't do that Why? Because they didn't hire anybody They shifted the cost for employees already on the payroll and part of management salaries to the stormwater account And did not reduce the budget by the amount of the fee Management, please tell the council that this statement is absolutely not true The public works department will tell you they do not have enough money in their budget to do the things that they are required to do Not true because recently they gave three employees Substantial raises and when asked where will the money for these raises come from the answer was we have enough money in our budget? When asked why in the stormwater account did they spend? $53,000 in overtime when they only budgeted $10,000 are you ready for the answer? Because it no way affected that the bottom line or total salaries budgeted amount simply stated They had more money than they needed so they could afford one and a half times the hourly rate Just to get rid of the extra money The public works management did not even know that their books were incorrect until we told them When you see those shiny new trucks running around the city 175,000 dollars of the stormwater fee helped to pay for them and the department wants to take $200,000 out of the stormwater fee in 2007 for more new trucks The reports admitted to the finance of public works committees by the supporting taxpayers and Alliance Documented clearly the mismanagement of the stormwater fee by the department of public works It has been stated that this fee is needed to get the not-for-profits to pay towards city services. They use Are you telling me? You want us to pay 1.5 million dollar fee so you can collect $40,000 from the churches and other not-for-profits This amount doesn't even cover the cost of the $77,000 that the water department charges to bill the fee and Now regarding double dipping taxation The school district the county the city paid a stormwater fee with tax dollars They collect from us and who pays a second time to replace that money in their budgets You guessed it the taxpayers in conclusion Tonight the mayor and several older persons have the opportunity to keep their campaign promise Beat their campaign promise to about to about us the unjust stormwater fee Older person teacher has introduced a resolution that deserves your support for this goal We taxpayers thank her for honoring what she said she would do and doing it I would also like to thank Alderman elder persons Hannah and burn for keeping an open mind and evaluating the facts and coming to the proper conclusion Do you really want to abolish it over five years and pay? 385,000 dollars in billing fees which is more than the three hundred thousand dollars you will collect in the final year for all these reasons and And others that I have not been able to state tonight because of limited time I act you to act responsibility and vote to abolish the stormwater fee in a timely fashion. Thank you. Thank you Next would be Tom Tezinski Mr. Tezinski, could you give me your home address, please certainly? 2404 silver leaf lane You will have five minutes sir Mayor Perez attorney McLean clerk Richards and members of the council Thanks for this opportunity to speak to you and importantly members of the public that might be listening this evening I'm speaking as a taxpayer this evening, although you'll recognize me as a traffic sergeant police department My concern tonight is with moving maintenance of our fleet to the municipal service building This matter was discussed in most detail at the building use committee at that commit at that committee members of the Department and the public gave their input to a committee made up of some members of the council But also members of the public one of those members is Joe Clark an architect another Carl Regatti was a previous member of the county board serving on building committees for the county and also Volunteered in similar fashion with the school district Mayor Perez these are good choices for this committee the building use committee listen to the information Alderman graff the committee chair thanked everyone and was going to move on however, mr. Regatti and Cameron steward the police representative to their credit Rightfully asked the chair what the committee was put in place for if they were not recommending to the council information They received and the building use committee then forwarded it in an RC 240 607 to the committee of the whole Four items with a favorable recommendation To standing committees public protection and safety and public works had in the respective committees RC 180607 which was a communication from an older person mire To move maintenance to the of the police feet police fleet to the Department of Public Works This communication was also forwarded to the committee of the whole with a favorable recommendation Those committees did not have the same high-profile meeting that building used it in the Roka room at the library Committee of the whole took up that communication first and passed it passed it on there was some input from the chief However, again, no one asked our fleet maintenance maintenance supervisor for his input your committee of the whole Then took the communication from building use carved out one of the recommendations that building use passed and eliminated keeping maintenance And eliminated keeping maintenance with the new police facility Perhaps this is allowed. However, I asked whether a chair of a committee can amend the communication that the committee voted on in total Again, I'm speaking of RC 240 06 or 07 Perhaps if this issue comes up tonight The city attorney could be asked whether a committee of the whole can disregard or change the recommendation From a lesser committee or should they have just voted up or down on the document as to the need or problems I see is a loss of efficiency of operation both for our department and the mechanic himself right now Mr. Daniels keeps an accurate record of each vehicle and timeline when the vehicle needs maintenance But more than that because of his efficiency the city has been able to go three years with our squads instead of two I previously presented several minor problems resolved by our mechanics and have three more this past week I needed to go on the road to investigate an issue for an upcoming Polar protection the safety committee meeting the squad had a dead battery Mr Daniels came out jump started it discovered a defective battery Which he was labor later able to get a replacement for and I was on my way the very next day The squad had a burned-out headlamp, which Mr. And I Daniels assistant changed in less than 10 minutes, and I was on the road this past Friday One of our squads was hit and an officer was injured. There was some question as to whether the other vehicles Brake system was defective and mr. Daniels examination on the scene found a defective braking system Daniels is directly involved in the bid process for new squads against keeps records on all our vehicles He does he just doesn't turn a wrench This week he will be opening and going through cars that they have set for auction on Saturday. I Know one of our alderman spoke to a previous member of our department who retired I think he retired over 10 years ago That person told all that alderman that we could do without the maintenance However, that officer was here when squads returned over every two years and the responsibilities of the maintenance operations expanded due to other Cutbacks that officer never supervised the garage operation That's the supervision and record keeping what police supervisor is now going to be in charge of record keeping for our fleet One item not brought about in reports that some alderman are bringing forward as to agencies that have maintenance elsewhere Is that in those agencies a police supervisor is responsible for record keeping? Our department has done without new vehicles when we need when the need came to replace our dive man and mergers emergency response van With interaction of our staff we located Used vehicles and mr. Daniels and his staff retrofitted them to our needs saving the city thousands of dollars Another example of increased duties Mr. Daniels assistant travels with the property officer to the crime lab in Milwaukee Previously we've had two property officers. We cut back to save money So now he goes along and trust me. You don't want to be in the neighborhood. They go to Tom, would you like your additional minutes? Yes, please? Okay? You don't want to go into the neighborhood where they go to the drop-off that evidence Fire Department maintenance is on 25th Street transit does their own maintenance. Why perhaps because the vehicles are specialized The police vehicles are specialized also the base car that city buys is roughly 16 to 17 thousand dollars with the trade-in It will be less this year because we've kept them for three But after that equipment's transferred the vehicles now worth 30 grand as a taxpayer I'd rather spend the money on the initial building keeping the maintenance with us approximately 2,000 square feet Roughly $9,000 for a lift then be shuttling vehicles back and forth So this past week we saw the opening of both high schools Expansion project this past weekend what struck me when talking to the two principals was the input that they had as to where their Buildings were going to be and what changes that were they were allowed to make with their architects to build a project for not just today But for the future Mr.. Regatti at this past past week's building use committee again asked what the committee was there for Excuse me Tom your time was up. I'm sorry. Thank you And last on the list would be barb Kaczynski and barb. Can I have your home address, please? Two four zero four silver leaf lane, okay, and you will have five minutes Thank you. I've held off and coming here speaking out of difference to both the police department and honesty to my spouse I feel very strongly that we need as a community to pull forward and Build for the future and do what is right for this community, which at this point is building a new police station But up until this point I've been telling people on a regular basis and people are agreeing with me this common counsel under the leadership We currently have has no intention of building a police station people to say why would you say that I? Say that because I have no evidence pointing to any positive action taking place to build us anytime in the near future As I told people you have no plan you have possibly no architect you have no land How can you build a police station with none of those things intact? It takes approximately up to nine months from the time you have the idea the time you can break ground in Order to get that in place. I've spoke to a number of architects and people familiar with this process So where does that leave me rather frustrated? However, we have tonight on our agenda the possibility to finally bring this to fruition I do have to wonder and people to ask me why has this taken so long? I can't tell you people I'm not going to dwell on it I will give you some past history the past history goes back to looking at emails that I have gotten to open records requests Via a number of common council members emails Back in September of 05 the email went forth to the vast majority of our common council members Will you be willing to move the police station at 2008 in the city? How remodeling to 2010 if the fire station will be built this year? That was one of the first emails the next email that came out a few months later in February of 06 was If we're going to share services of the county now is the time to look at this including joint dispatch Turning the detective division over to the sheriff moving the maintenance division to municipal service building and also limiting the salvage port This was again reiterated later on in the year in June of 2006 that email was from mr. Graff to the rest of alderman I feel that unfortunately what has been occurring Previously was a lot of behind-scenes negotiations a lot of behind-the-scenes discussions When I was at that building use committee meeting recently that mr. Tushinsky referred to mr. Ragotti was quite angry he said why are we meeting why are we not discussing this mr. Bourne a member of this common council wanted to discuss an issue I Was very appreciative of the fact I was allowed to speak that evening I will tell you item number six in the building use committee was quote unquote discussion and Recommendation on the police facility We were informed and mr. Bourne was informed. We are not discussing the police facility at this meeting Now being somebody who's known for going along open meetings law open records law. I said raise my hand I said I don't know why it would be improper to discuss the police facility when it's posted this way the meeting adjourned I was then informed by Ms. Montemayor that we will be breaking ground in January of 2007 for a police station There may be a plan of doing some type of ceremonial Putting of a spade into solid frozen dirt at that point But I cannot see it happening with a timeline. We have in place. We consistently heard over and over We had to move forward with a timeline van der Veid couldn't get in the way We have to move forward the timeline. I am asking this Common Council now to move forward in a positive direction You have the leadership you have the potential you have among you a mayor and alderman who's Successfully brought to fruition a wonderful project in this community for the school district and for this community You have business people you have people older people have gone out and done their homework I congratulate you for the amount of work you do but now it's time to turn it to the experts one of the reasons We were so successful with our building here at north and south and Jefferson school was relying on our experts You are paying mr. Sabines and Zimbabwean design group an awful lot of money for their expertise Please rely on them rely on your building use committee Take the information you have and move forward in a positive direction It is possible talking to an architect You could actually break ground within about three months from start to when you actually want to get started However, this is gonna be long hours and a lot of cooperation with a number of people. It can be done I please implore this Common Council to not put this on the back burner anymore to move forward So I no longer I'm saying to people I have seen nothing to date that shows me that they are going to be building this any Time in the near future You have a possibility here to put that all behind us start with a clean slate Work together as a community have the experts that you have out there the people in building news committee These alderman not to micromanage But to work with the experts your police officers your architects your contractors and move forward You have two choices you can either do that and do that well and that can be your legacy You can look out and say this is what we've done for posterity. Excuse me, Barbara Would you like your extra minute? Thank you, or you have another choice of another legacy of creating something like plaza 8 Would we look back and say why didn't we do this properly? We had a chance. I please implore this police and police department. I apologize. I implore this Common Council Show people I'm wrong. Please. I'd love to be wrong I'd love to have somebody hold me up as a piece of ridicule saying my gosh was she wrong when she said they're not Going to building this all I have is the dad in front of me. Please show me. I'm wrong work together work with the community Thank you for your time. Thank you We're going to go next to the mayor's comments, and I have several comments that I'd like to make but as has been to practice when there are comments made during the public forum that merit some type of response We have usually done that and I have done it previous mayors have done it and I intend to do it today in Response to the issue of the committee chairman gruff Of the finance committee not allowing the public to speak It needs to be understood that we some of us may not like that But it is the call of the chair that is the duty and responsibility of the chair. I Do not want to second-guess the call of the chair. This is not my committee meeting It's his or her committee meeting and it's important to understand that during the committee meetings Business has to be conducted and if people want to address the council Perfect place is what we just saw today a full full page To say that we are denying anybody's freedom of speech is not correct Are we denying every 50,000 people in the city of Sheboygan the freedom of speech when we allow only five to speak? No, we're not we're trying to conduct business Alderman gruff should not be ridiculed for making a decision not to allow public input He's not he doesn't do it in every meeting, but he did it at that time Whatever his reason was I respect that I think we should respect that at some point Some of you are going to be chairman or chairwoman of a committee You will have the same call to make and Whatever call you make I will stand behind you I may not agree with it, but that is your call to make as I have calls to make here the other issue was addressed today is that This police station Is not going to get bill If I have to go nail the thing together myself. I will it's gonna get bill next year. I Think they were through talking. I think it's time to build we put up a Planning place to work with our architect. They will materialize Finish product pretty quick Some people are not privy to that type of discussion to that type of information and the problem with when people don't know Is that they tend to make up stuff? okay, and That's okay, but they shouldn't go with bread and it like it's truth What's happening now is very critical it coming in a very critical time this police station folks Alderman going to get bill. I guarantee you that And I think all of you feel that firm about building that police station myself. That's why I feel so confident about it Just wanted to clarify that As I go out in the community and meet people people talk to me about a lot of things In fact, what a good friend of mine who watches the meetings all the time is to John Deets from men of you matter Talked to me just recently. I visited and had lunch with him and we talked about the budget and that's a discussion that we have tonight The next council meeting on the will be a council meeting and also an opportunity for public input on the budget The 27th is when we approve the budget and that meeting please make notation is at 515 on the 27th not at 7 not at 6 515. I am changing the time at the request of an alderman for good reason 515 is very accommodating should be accommodating to everyone and that is the next step would be the public hearing Opportunity for the public to speak during the next council meeting and then we have the approval of the budget on the 27th the process has worked itself through the department heads the mayor's executive review to the committees And that's where we're at now We were still at the 0% increase in the levy I hope that you will help me honor your resolution, which I abided by To have a 0% increase we've had to bite the bullet wasn't an easy thing to do, but we got it done Next year. I don't know that we can do it I don't know that we can continue to have 0% increase on a levy when every other political entity continues to have increases in theirs I think we have a duty to the taxpayers to provide the services and to make those adjustments in the costs They come forth every single year. It's just the way it's going to be I asked for the public support I asked for the city a common council support to understand That because of raising rising costs and our expanded our revenues just not being able to keep up with our expenditures We'll probably have to start a look in at some sort of increase somewhere Which leads me to the next point in that somewhere We're also going to be looking at as was mentioned today the stormwater fee the stormwater is being recommended to phase out in five years the 20% Increments each year. I am hoping I am hoping that you will consider phasing it out in two Strongly consider phasing it out in two for one primary reason Not because I made a promise or I ran a campaign based on that if I were not to keep my word I expect to pay the price for that and I'm a man enough to do that but I think that people Should be a little wary a little area I should say of is this council serious about phasing out the stormwater fee if they're going to do it in five a Lot of things can happen in five years Very few things can happen in two I'm asking you to strongly consider Amending this resolution substitute resolution coming in tonight to phase out in five to phase it out in two I think it's critical that the public maintained their trust and Us and the work that we do What is that I? Think it's critical that we maintain that that trust if anybody has any cell phones Please turn them off too. We ask that it's critical that the public maintain their trust and what we say we're going to do and the stormwater fee Is a very sensitive issue it has support for for phasing out from a lot of people in this community I'm asking you to consider that That's going to be a difficult thing from a financial standpoint But we're going to we're going to dig into our finances and find Substitute revenue for it and perhaps a revenue enhancer within the next two years I feel confident that we can do it and I wouldn't be making this request if I didn't The next item is the city development Just wanted to to invite you To move about the community and take a look take a personal Look at some of the development that's going on take a look at South Pier how we put all those sidewalks together How the promenade is going to be extended how the lights are going up on the on the west side of the river the new lights to Match the lights on the east side to go by the Highland Restaurant that's coming up see the plaza is being built between the capsule building and the Highland restaurant to see the morning Star condominium project to see the the the old green warehouse condominium project To see Taylor Drive all these things are really really awesome Things a lot of good things are happening. It's so easy to get distracted and focus on what's not positive But I invite you to just walk around just drive around and see some of these things that are happening in Sheboyga That are making our community Much much better for our residents As you know the Walmart will be open at Wednesday They have a grand opening at seven o'clock I don't like to wake up at seven o'clock and go to those kind of meetings, but I will be there You're invited to go there yourself. I Would like to extend a personal thanks and thanks from the alderman for the donations that they made these donations were handed out on Sunday And they go as follow to the city for park improvements Playground equipment. I should say they gave seven thousand dollars for the library for literacy programs They gave five thousand dollars for the police department Certain areas in the police department. They gave nine hundred dollars and for the fire department They gave six hundred dollars And they did that just because they wanted to to work with the city And I think it's a very great gesture of them and I thank them for that Also keep in mind that the bus routes took effect today the new bus routes So if you have a problem with connecting with the bus call Ron McDonald you'll be glad to talk to you And finally I have the On the agenda efficiency and cost savings initiative As you will recall in several towns at least two or three council meetings and several Salary and grievance meetings. We've talked about looking at our organizational structure our table of organization Our table of organization reflects good times that thing was put together when times were good well times are not good anymore Bad times are here. We have to make the adjustments in the table of organization to reflect our financial capability what we're able to afford the Salary and grievance committee has been looking and talking with various department heads and looking at options I have been looking at options Alderman Susha as chairman of The Salary and grievance and I will get together and we will put together a plan that will create some changes But should result in efficiency and some cost savings and basically the way I like to describe it is we're going to reshuffle the deck Instead of getting four aces you may get a different hand, but it's going to be for the better We need to do that because we have no other source of revenue We need to look at how is it that we're spending our tax dollars where we put in our tax dollars Are we putting enough there or not enough or we put in too much there and we shouldn't be those are questions We need to be looking at and those are questions that Alderman Susha has looked at and I think we'll come up with a With a pretty good plan that I think Will please everyone No, maybe not everyone, but it's going to please a lot of people Okay, so be expecting that and I think that does it Thank you very much the next item we are going into will be public hearings we have three The first one is to establish the use of the use district classification of annex property located between South Business Drive and Manning Drive men road Second one is to change the use district classification of various properties located between South Business Drive and Manning Road And the third is to establish the use district classification of annex property located South of Main Avenue and West of North 29th Street as class sr. 5 Suburban residential 5 classification. Is there anyone here that would like to address the council? Is there anyone that would like to address the council with respect to the three public hearings? Is there anyone that would like to address the council? Alamon Serta Thank you, and I move that we close the floor. Thank you motion in second to close floor from hearings any discussion There will be a none all those in favor say aye Any opposed motion carries Consent the agenda vice president Serta. Thank you, your honor. I move that we accept and file all our roles and accept and adopt all the RC's and Put upon the passage all resolutions and general ordinances Motion in second any discussion? There being on please call the roll Serta Davis graph Hannah Kittleson Manny Meyer Montemayor Ratke Ryan Susha Vanderville Brasselt and boron 15 eyes motion carries report of officers to 1532 through 1542 to be referred Resolutions introduced 3 1543 by old man graph authorizing the filing of an application with the US Department of Transportation Transportation and authorizing the executing of contract pertaining to grants for calendar year 207 all of them graph Thank You your honor. I'd also like to take 1545 which is a Which is a Resolution authorizing the transit directed to apply for The city County non-moron rice transportation pilot program funding for bike racks and for administration of Project if funded I would move that both those resolutions. We put up on their passage Motion second to put 1543 1540 40 1545 upon their passage any discussion There being on please call the roll Davis graph Hannah Kittleson Clowness Manny Meyer Montemayor Ratke Ryan Susha Vanderville for Hasselt Boran and Serta 15 eyes motion carries 1544 by element Manny to co-sponsor a Sheboygan community forum on universal health health care almond Manny Thank You. I move to suspend the rules We don't need to do that Do we need to spin? I don't think we do. We don't need to spend rules to the motion. I don't thank you. Thank you I move them your honor that we put the resolution past passage Motion in second to put 1544 upon its passage under discussion There being on please call the roll graph Hannah Kittleson Clowness Manny Meyer Montemayor Ratke Ryan Susha Vander wheel for Hasselt Boran Serta and Davis 15 eyes Motion carries 1546 by element graph Hannah Clowness Susha and Boran authorizing a transfer appropriation in the 06 budget all of them And graph thank you your honor I would ask for suspension of the rules on that there's a motion in second. Is there any objection? There being on please proceed. Thank you your honor, and I'm hoping everybody has a copy of the revised Document or the corrected copy. I would move them that that resolution be put upon its passage Which in the second under discussion On discussion your honor. I'd like to amend it The item that's a one two three fourth item establishing estimate revenue and appropriations for the Hispanic fair sponsored by the mayor's office. I would Move to change the amount from six hundred and seventy dollars to eight hundred and sixty dollars Is there a second to that motion second to amend the six seventy to eight sixty under discussion under discussion That's the amount that was collected Or well, we need to to pay out to the various people that participated in in the Hispanic fair Thank you and under discussion. I'd extend a Thank you to all the entities that participated on the amendment changing eight six seventy Eight sixty any more discussion There being none All those in favor say aye Any opposed motion carries on the Motion in second to put upon this passage 1546 is amended under discussion There being none, please call roll Hannah Kittleson Clioness Manny Meyer Montemay or Radke Ryan Susha Vander wheel Rehastled Warren Davis and Graf 15 eyes Motion carries 1547 through 1549 to be referred Report of committee six 1550 by law and licensing Recommended denying beverage operators license number 7242 based on his failure to cooperate with the committee his record of violations related to the license activity and his habitual Lawbreaking all of them Ratke Thank You your Honor it would make a motion to re-refer this back to committee Motion in second refer back to committee under discussion There being none all those in favor say aye Any opposed motion carries 1551 and 1552 lies over till November 27th page 8 1553 to be referred Report of committee 7 1554 by law and licensing recommending granting an extension to the shabuigan house On their deadline for commencing their business under his alcohol beverage like a license for six months all in red Thank You your Honor I would move with the report of committee be accepted and adopted Motion second to accept an adopt under discussion. Thank You your honor You've made comments before about the development around the city and things This is a development. It's happening just a half a block from here in the corner of the eighth and center a Couple that are working at remodeling and revising the old Executive a and grand hotel or modder whatever you happen to call it and they came back for committee and asked For a little bit more time to work with it But this is just another fine example of how this community is coming together and putting together Wonderful developments that are going to help us go into the future Wonderful. Thank you. I'm on right key Alderman Clayunas Thank You your honor. Is it the shabuigan house or shabuigan hotel? I think it's shabuigan hotel, isn't it? Good point Alderman Clayunas Please make that notation. We don't need a motion for that. Just make the notation. Thank you. Yes I know the facility is called the shabuigan hotel But I don't know it could be that the corporate entities shabuigan house ink. I'm not sure okay Go back leave it as it is. All right. Thank you Thank you for pointing that out. I'll include is any more discussion on that all of them are at you Yes, your honor. It is the shabuigan house incorporated. So okay So it's going under the incorporation. Okay anything else? Please call the roll Kittleson Clayunas Manny Meyer Montemayor Ratke Ryan Susha Vander wheel for Hassel Warren Serta Davis Graf and Hannah 15 eyes motion carries 1555 by public works but public protection and safety regarding issues surrounding surrounding the enforcement of shabuigan's Comprehensive clear water certification program and recommending that the building inspection department and the city attorney's office be given the authority to exercise Reasonable discretion and enforcing the ordinance all of them in Vander wheel Thank you, honor. I'll move to put the RC or that RC be accepted and adopted Motion is second to accept an adopt 1555 under discussion Hallman Hannah Thank you, mr. Mayor. I just think that this is an excellent example of the city Responding to a rational request from citizens. This is a well-meaning ordinance But there's some very impractical applications of it and this gives our department a chance to respond on a case-by-case basis So I think it's terrific. That's a very good point. Oh Any more discussion there being none, please call the roll Manny Myer Montemayor Ratki Ryan Susha Vander wheel for hassle foreign Surtah Davis Graf Hannah Kittleson and Clioness 14 eyes 1-0 motion carries 1556 by the committee of the whole recommended filing document Submitting the police department building and city hall space list summaries from Zimmerman design group all of them in Vander wheel Thank you, honor. I move that the RC be accepted and adopted Motion second under discussion There'll be a none. Please call roll Meyer Montemayor Ratki Ryan Susha Vander wheel for hassled boron Surtah Davis graph Hannah Kittleson Clioness and Manny 15 eyes motion carries How much? I'm no one voted. No, no, no, sorry a woman Vander will learn. Oh, you voted. Okay. I'm sorry Okay, 1557 by the committee of the whole recommended accepting and adopting the document from building news committee making various recommendations except Recommend and filing the first bullet point on the list of recommendations which reads Keep the mechanics with the police department when the police department moves to the 23rd location all women Vander wheel Thank you, honor. I move the RC be accepted and adopted Which is in second under discussion All women Vander wheel thank you on under discussion I would just like to ask the city attorney if if I handled that correctly in the committee of the whole by by taking that one item out from a report of committee Way I would read it is and the recommendation Building use committee to the committee the whole included various items committee the whole looked at it and Agreed with most of them, but not with all of them and I don't think it's a matter of can't tie the committee the whole hands to Accepting the whole package or not. I think they've got the discretion to Pick and choose and come to the council with the best recommendation that they feel is appropriate So I don't have a problem with it Thank you turn them clean of vice president Serta. Thank you honor that satisfied my question. Thank you No one else, please call roll All in many thank you, I just want to double check here So the motion is to file at this point correct Accept and adopt the report committee From the committee of the whole with all the recommendation date from Building used to committee of the whole except the one that reads for the with the mechanics, okay Okay, I understand the motion and clearly I'm in favor of maintaining the mechanics with the new play station site I just wanted to verbalize that before the vote so I would be voting against this resolution if that's my perspective Yes, I encourage others to think along that line as well my thinking basically is along the line of efficiency and My biggest source of information and conviction is based upon a conversation with a friend and the county mechanic For all these sheriff's vehicles and his clear perspective is that if he were elsewhere From the squad cars in a different location It would distinctly impact his efficiency and the quality of his work And it would waste all sorts of time I think that same issue is a reality for us in the decision that we're making so I'm completely committed To maintaining the mechanics at the site with the complete station. Thank you All right Thank you, your honor. I wholeheartedly agree with alderman mania on this issue. I too will be voting against this We have not had any examples of Brought before us of why it makes any sense to not include the mechanic With the new police department at the new police department. We have not nobody is is It's proven to me that we're going to be any more efficient going to be less efficient. It's really not a cost savings We're building the building We have to put a lift in either location There's some security issues with the municipal building as opposed to police department So I wholeheartedly agree with alderman mani and I too am going to vote against this. Thank you Thank you. Well, Ryan old and how? Thank you, ma'am. I thought about this for long and hard And I looked to see if I felt I believed moving the mechanic to a central location was going to be the best thing for the city I Too am going to vote against this I don't see the savings dollar-wise to the city Being worth the give-up and efficiencies I've read the reports. I've talked to various police officers and at this point Old man Davis Honourable mayor at a building use committee came forward with these recommendations here. I also I'm going to vote in the one this year just for the first bullet. I mean, this is our recommendation is to stay with this recommendation and be voted on as a whole unless you want to separate the Recommendations on a line-by-line basis here But to keep the integrity and security the squads and the police department. I'll be voting on this. Thank you. Thank you Olderman Brassel Thank you, your honor. I Was told a few months ago by another police officer in another part of the state when discussing a number of issues on our police station construction that on the subject of maintenance that it was simply not the norm in his experience that the mechanic would be on site he Himself had just built the station a few years earlier took the opportunity to her number of stations across the state So he had pretty good experience about this But me being the skeptic I set out to find my own answer and a lot of you have seen the reports I've written after having gone to or visited or interviewed a total of eight different police chiefs or deputy chiefs across the state of Wisconsin And I can tell you that the majority of them six out of eight either use their DPW department of public works Exclusively or partially most all of them use it exclusively so I Guess if I look at it even if I I can use that information and make a decision based on that But if I back up and throw everything out the window and just say what if we went to a new site a new city and said We need to build a city would we if we were building a city would we build five different shops? Like we have currently five different maintenance shops, and I would think most people would say no a number of constituents I've talked to have agreed they wouldn't do that So I don't know if if we agree with it in that stands why we would go against it any other way I guess I think we need to strive towards efficiency and in my mind I Guess I would feel a little irresponsible using taxpayer money to continue this duplication if we can pair it down from five shops Currently to four I think that's the best interest of the taxpayer I can certainly empathize with the police force because it's changed and change is always a pain in the butt There's different personnel. There's different processes and everything else So I can empathize with that, but I just cannot continue the duplication from a taxpayer standpoint There is going to be extra cost no matter how you cut it I know there's going to be some downplaying, but there's going to be some extra cost There's no denying that and I just don't want to be a part of that. So I'll vote for it. Thank you Susha Thank you, your honor Actually, I did ask that question that elder member Hassel just ended with I did send a list of questions to Mr. Sabin asked a couple months ago One of the questions I asked him was how much is it going to cost to put the mechanic on 23rd Street? And his response was approximately a hundred thousand dollars So to say that we're not going to save any money. That's simply not true We're going to save close to a hundred thousand dollars We need to be fiscally responsible You have to keep in mind that the police officers go to the municipal service building every single day in their squad car to get Their gas Somebody recently questioned me if we're going to put a gas pump at the new police station If we put the mechanic there and I said no I don't think so because who would want to put another gas tank right next to a brand new police station It just didn't make much sense So since the police officers are already going down to the municipal service building every day to get gas If they have a problem with their car, they simply would drop it off at that time Switch their gear into another squad car that isn't being used and they would continue with their daily activity I don't see how this would be any more Inconvenient for the police officer since they're already going to that building. I think that I Do feel bad for the mechanics at the municipal service building the implications are being made that they are not Certified or they're not good enough to work on squad cars And I think we have a very capable crew down there And there's also been implications made in the past that they are thieves because they may steal the tools utilized by the police Mechanic, I think this is insulting and I think it's wrong that we're trying to Prevent on a shared service from within the city I mean we talk about shared services outside this community and we need to do more of that within the city This is a simple easy process Not sure why we're rehashing it on the council floor again because we went through all this in the committee the whole And with that said I'll be calling the question Motion in second to call the question we have to see his discussion. We'll take a vote. We'll have a roll call Yes, Serta Davis graph Hannah Kittleson This is to close all discussion and I vote would be would be to close discussion Clowness Manny Excuse me. No, thank you Meyer Montemay or Radke Ryan No, Susha Vander wheel for Hassel Nine eyes six nose nine eyes nine eyes Motion motion carries Requires a two-thirds okay, so there's no most continue on Ryan your second time sir Thank you. What skin your honor? Try to make this brief first of all Asking mr. Saber Nash and no offense against older person Susha here. She does do a fine job asking him what it would cost arbitrarily to put a a service bay in the new police department a hundred thousand dollars I Don't think is Can we compare that to what is it going to cost to move? The service bait of the municipal building municipal building We are going to have to put up from what I understand a concrete wall We are going to have to add a lift Expand insinuated that I may not trust An older person or I may be that older person that said that I May have insinuated that the people at public works will steal the mechanics tools I have said in the past that the mechanic in the police department mr. Daniels does use his own tools and that if he decided not to move his own tools down to public works being a larger area That the city would then be buying tools for the police mechanic rather than him using his own tools There was no insinuation of people stealing tools or any insinuation upon my part of mr Of mr. Daniels or myself not trusting the other people at DPW It just does not make any sense at this point. There are no efficiencies I look at at Alderman Verhast let's work here, which he has put a lot of work into this This is on our desk tonight from the Eau Claire police station notes that Basically what happens now is the officers administration staff help shuttle officers back from DPW in the DPW Staff help shuttle repaired car back to the station later in the day So what you're doing is you're taking another person and tying them up Basically acting as the shuttle driver back and forth on both ends of it. This is not efficient in the long run This is not going to save money. This is not going to save us any money it's To to say that the DPW workers are present People at the municipal building are under qualified to work on police vehicles has never been set has never been insinuated They are plenty qualified. They have there. There are many expert mechanics that are certified just as our own police mechanic is This is not a slam on DPW. This is not saying that DPW is not qualified to work on the police cars This is saying that it is more efficient for the police department to keep the police maintenance With the police vehicles at the police department. We've heard many examples of it And I think is as a as a counsel We would be basically not doing the public any justice by Building a police department that is going to be less efficient than what we have right now. Thank you again That's present sort of Thank you, your honor And I could be I could stand to be corrected, but if I understood Alderperson Susha what she had explained is that Talking about if the municipal employees could this the mechanics provide that service to our Police department fleet. I don't believe that's the question here And that would raise a big concern of mine if indeed that's something we're looking at down the future Because I my understanding is that we're still looking to utilize our our police department Mechanic to service those vehicles at the municipal building. So again, I stand to be corrected I'd be very concerned if we were thinking about eliminating his position Secondly When I took this position as Alderperson's I made a point to visit the majority of our departments And I can specifically remember when I toured that facility down on New Jersey Avenue They were maxed out at space then and to justify that that's why we had to tear down the incinerator So we utilize that space in providing shelter for the salt down there So I'm not convinced at this time that we actually have the space down there needed to perform the service and lastly Although I can respect seeking outside opinions outside the city of Sheboygan. I don't think it should take precedence and undermining what our department Suggestions are and as a result of all of those things that I mentioned I'll be voting though Okay Kittleson Thank You mr. Mayor. I just Just to reiterate what has been said also I went just last week down to the municipal service building myself and Took it to wanted to see exactly where that area was Dave Bebel and several supervisors took me and showed me the area there and at this point in time We'd have to do some major renovations down there also and to say what the cost would be We don't know that at this time. So if we're saying a hundred thousand dollars on 23rd Street We don't know how what it's going to cost to do the renovations down there at the municipal service garage either So with that being said and and the room down there Also, they are maxed out for space and not that they're not even willing to work along with us because Because I got the strong impression that they are they are willing to share and to work at what to make work Whatever needs to be made workable But I think at this point building a new facility and keeping our mechanic with the police station is the best Best thing to do at this time. Thank you you All the money and time. Thank you, your honor. I'm going to change direction and look at another bullet point So perhaps we'll open up another whole door of conversation. I hope so because I want more information I'm not convinced about the need for an exercise space in the police station So I would like input to help me believe that that's essential I see some probable or possible reasons why that might be necessary or desirable especially with shifts going all day long and Best work schedules being being distinctive and different for folks But we have two wonderful new facilities at the north and south high schools. I Would see a great advantage in seeing our officers Mixing it up with citizens both young and old and I think that would be a great PR piece in the community And that would build relationships that would be helpful for public protection and safety and thus our common good So I'd like to hear the weaknesses in my perspective Why do we need that space the cost that goes with it when officers are not mandated? By contract for any sort of workout time frame It's on their own time So off work hours If facilities at the high schools are much more attractive than anything they would possibly have in a new facility Why aren't those the better places for them to be? Thank you all and many The cell alone they've spoken twice already. I won't let you speak again unless the council wants it to it Otherwise, we're gonna you have rehashed this thing several times and went to the committee of the whole you're bringing it back You're hearing the same thing. I think everybody knows how everybody feels it. It's just gonna go on and on Holden board Thank You your honor Getting back to the maintenance again. I was happy to hear the sergeant say tonight in the public forum that the Mechanic has a maintenance plan for all of the vehicles I think one of the advantages moving it down to public works is that we're gonna have 52 weeks a year coverage I believe the mechanic currently must go on vacation sometime during the year that would be one advantage of having Coverage 52 weeks a year. Also If I have anything to say about it when we build the new police department I want to have a garage that's built big enough to house the majority of the police vehicles depending on who I talked to we either have 14 or 17 marked vehicles As I as I envision it if it's down to public works with the maintenance schedule that the mechanic has He may have three or four vehicles down there at one time Which would leave ten squads at our new garage at the new police department for use for the officers So if somebody did have a dead battery or a flat tire There would be enough vehicles in the new garage on site at the new police station the only vehicles that would be down there On New Jersey Avenue would be the actual vehicles that are being worked on for that day or for that week And also it might even be possible to do some cross-training in his downtime To work on some of the other vehicles if he's a certified if he's a certified mechanic We also have to look at trends and I think trends is a very important word word for what? Alderman that were hassled has done in his research and the trend around the state of Wisconsin is that most police Departments are using their public works department for maintenance And most of them have been doing it for many many years and they report basically no problems with it at all I also toured along with alderman our older person Clayunas after I became alderman I toured the public works facility down on New Jersey Avenue and Mr.. Beeble told Older person Clayunas and I that there is work there is room down there for them to do the maintenance There's an area where there's some I don't know how you would describe it kind of a storage area That may have to be relocated, but according to mr.. Beeble there is indeed room down there to do the maintenance So I'm gonna I'm gonna vote to support Moving the maintenance down to public works. Thank you Oh Man, have you gone twice? I think This is your second time. Thank you, man a couple things and I will address Alderman Manning's Concerns about a workout area for them I There is no way that the police department should even attempt to compete with the school district in terms of the car You vascular facilities now available from 5 30 in the morning till 10 in the evening at both south and north high I would suggest that the equipment that the police department now has could be cost-effectively stored in a modest workout area In a new butler type garage Area as an offset and I think it just it lends itself to some convenience because of shifts And not all that not all the officers can fit that that north and south high workout schedule in that's would be my only Comment there secondly, I would question that Our architect would use $100,000 cost number on a 2000 square or on a 200 square foot Mechanics area now that we've gone with a butler construction that cost figure would be considerably lower like closer to $10,000 for a 200 square foot area, and then you throw a lift in at 9,000 So we're talking about $20,000 not 109 109,000 Okay, thank you Oh, no rational second time. Thank you, your honor I just want to delay I guess any concerns that have been brought up on two issues one a security down a DBW and The other about the shuttling back and forth I did ask those questions quite pointedly to the DPW directors fleet managers and chief of place as I did my research Did my study and I can tell you that none of them pointed out any security issues Specifically in most instances most instances the police cars The squad cars returned back to the police station prior to close of the day in the instance that the vehicles had to be held over for some Larger work. They were simply brought into the building and all the doors were locked and secured as probably would be the case anyways As far as the shuttling back and forth I specifically prodded and kind of picked at him as well You know come on tell me how bad it is tell me the hassle of it And I asked a number of different sergeants chiefs deputy chiefs that I talked to and they all really treated it a second nature It was no big deal as you can see in the information It ranges from four to thirty three years that these different police stations have been doing this and they really were very very Comfortable with it if there were any concerns I would have noted it my the point of my report is not to sway the council in any one direction It was just to lay it out there as I asked the questions. I listed both good and bad information I should say information on both sides of the argument I should say As far as you know the amount of space down there I guess maybe my background is skewing this but to me we have 15 hours worth of space in that building It only operates about nine hours a day right now So to say we don't have space is true when you just look at the eight nine hour day But we have 15 hours worth of day I'm not I guess comfortable with saying that we need to stick within that nine-hour time frame a lot of our maintenance Scheduled is pre scheduled so we should be able to try to move that around a little bit later Earlier in the day to allow for preferential treatment to the squad cars so they can get in and get out in a timely fashion The thing I do like about bringing him down to the maintenance shop bringing mr. Daniels down I don't know if he's here, but he gains access to a lot more expertise around him I think that's always valuable and it probably gains access to more tools and equipment as well Which should make his job easier in the end so Thank you Well, thank you your honor. Most of my points have just been made I agree with older person for household all the person born Older person Shusha with their recommendations to put the mechanic down at EPW I think it'll be a lot more efficient system. They're like alderman for hassle just stated There are more mechanics down there if there are problems. I think we have a bigger pool to pick from I don't understand why having the mechanic at this location would cause so much trouble We have I believe 17 squad cars five on the road at any given shift So I don't understand why this would be such a hard thing to schedule You know and and as far as the workout area, I agree with Alderman Manny I think our new additions to north and south would be the way to go and I would support that also. So thank you Vice President sir a second time Thank you, your honor. I Won't go over everything else that was mentioned just one last thing to think about to address older person Manny's question Is my short time on celery and grievance? It was mentioned I know specifically with the fire department some of the cost-saving incentives due to health care costs With physical fitness and I'm sure that same Continuity is probably also applied to the police department And will Thank You honor I respect every alderman that spoke tonight and I especially appreciate the alderman that brought up new points and and went to the municipal building and and research there and and had more questions But I'm also frustrated because the reason we have community of the whole meetings is so that we don't sit here and talk for 45 minutes And all are about one subject a lot of it. We already talked about so I just want to express my frustration that We either talk about it here or talk about in community the whole if we want to talk about here for an hour Let's do that, but let's not talk about it two different times. Thank you, your honor Alderman Ratkin Thank you, your honor since we're dealing with this report from the community the whole it's just wondering if we could take 1571 1572 with it because those two documents are directly related to this very discussion So we're not reaction is the second time around. Thank you I'm sorry. What did you just say 1571 and 1572? Take it with it. I Like it make a motion to take those with it if I could I may not be chairing the community We just who made the motion Alderman Van der Waal you made the motion would you include those two documents in your motion? Thank you, honor. I think it'd be appropriate to vote separately on 1557 and then we'll take it the other two You Still want to make the motion. I don't think it's that support. Okay. Okay. Okay. You spoke twice Whoever spoke twice. I'm not I'm not gonna hit your button anymore I'm born second time Thank you, your honor This time I want to discuss the health club for the officers. I originally was I was originally against a Gym for the for the officers, but after giving it giving it some thought and with the possibility of building it in the In the new garage, I'm going to support that. I think it's something that builds camaraderie with the officers It allows them to work out at when when that when it's convenient for them and They originally were asking for 1,000 square feet. I don't know if I can it can support Support a 1,000 square foot garage Most of the ones that I've that I've looked at in my research are anywhere from 500 up to 750 square feet in my document 1537 that's going to building use tonight. I'm recommending I believe without having an in front of me about a 650 square foot Workout room for the officers adjacent to their locker rooms. I think it's convenient for them I think it's the least we can do for the officers and again I think it's going to build camaraderie amongst the officers. Thank you. Thank you You get ready Chiefs you had asked to speak is there anything different from last time or we're going to rehash the same thing Something different. Please come up. I won't ask to speak twice only once I Wish to say thank you to you Mr. Mayor for the direction and the dedication to the timeline of the construction of this police department There were some people who spoke on this issue and and you once again said we are sticking with this this timeline And I thank you for that As far as the trends and what's unique to the city of Sheboygan versus other police departments Why do we have 16 alderman? I mean other cities have Different number of alderman. Why do we have 16 where we're unique? This is what works for the city. Perhaps we need eight alderman. Perhaps we need 32 alderman It's just what's what's our city is different than other cities and to say that the trend is to go to public works That could very well be It does take place in other cities But people speak of change and change is good Change is good if it means it's more efficient if you create Inefficiency by change. Why are we changing just to say we that we change something here as far as vehicle transfer It will reduce the officer's time on the road and it will create some downtime As far as vehicles on the road and do they gas every shift? No, they do not gas every shift Sometimes they're tied up. We could range between five vehicles to 10 vehicles to 12 vehicles So it depends on a day and it depends on a staffing number of vehicles. We have on the road As far as Tom Holton and Dave Bebel Please I wish and your people at public works We never intended to to imply that we didn't trust your people that was not the issue and the issue of security I apologize to your people if you thought that we indicate that we don't trust your people That's that's not the case, please I wish to say that as far as coverage in the garage We have two people one mechanic and one laborer when the mechanic is off on vacation Our laborer takes over as the mechanic. He is qualified to do that work That's excuse me as far as a health club. This is not a health club. I Used to belong to a health club and a health club has shower facilities has esteem has sauna This is a fitness room and the equipment in this room is The officer's equipment is not provided by the city. All we're asking for is to give us a open room That we can put some items in Would I wish or would I'd like to go to north and south high school to work out? You're absolutely, right? However, all we're asking is there's different times our officers work out Just give us a room a vacant room. We will supply the equipment that goes in that room. Thank you very much. Thank you Before I call the roll This is a very this is a very good example Several people can be looking at the same thing and everybody takes a different interpretation of it I'm convinced that there's efficiency and cost savings in it. I'm convinced. I'm also convinced It's a time something can become political instead of fiscal Use your good judgment When you vote, please call the roll Okay But what should we explain is everybody know what we're voting on this is to Accept and adopt the RC as it stands right now Emotion a vote. Yes, we'll move the maintenance to municipal building Please call the roll Montemay or Radke Ryan Susha Vander wheel for hassled Boran Serta Davis graph Hannah Kittleson Clowness Manny Meyer Eight eyes seven nose motion carries 1558 by law and licensing recommended denying beverage operators license number seventy two forty four Based on his record of violations related to the license activity and his habitual violation of the law Alderman Ratke Thank you, your honor. I ask that the report of today be accepted adopted Motion and second under discussion under discussion is Taylor Martin here this evening He is not here this evening your honor. Thank you Please call the roll Ratke I Ryan Susha Vander wheel Brassel Boran Serta Davis graph Hannah Kittleson Clowness Manny Meyer and Montemay or 15 eyes motion carries 15 59 through 15 69 Lies over to November's 27th council meeting 1570 to be referred Report of committee's 8 1571 by the committee of the whole recommend and directing that the maintenance of all police department vehicles to the municipal building Municipal service building Alderman Vander wheel would you take 71 and 72 please? Excepting it out. Oh, I'm sorry Thank you, honor. I'll move to put to have their seas exception adopted Motion second to accept and adopt under discussion Please call roll and this is for both documents Alderman Ryan Susha Vander wheel for hassled Boran Serta Davis graph Hannah Kittleson Clowness Manny Meyer Montemay or and Ratke 8 eyes 7 nose motion carries reported committee is 9 1573 by public protection and safety recommended amendment general ordinance number 1990 102 Changing the speed speed limit on South Taylor Drive from Washington Avenue South County E from 45 miles per hour to 35 miles per hour and passing the attached substitute ordinance Alderman Vander wheel Thank you, honor. I'll move to Have the RC accepted and adopted and put this substitute ordinance upon its passage motion and second under discussion Alderman Vander wheel under discussion This is something that we looked at on about a year ago when Alderman Susha was was chair of the committee and There was communication we're looking at making that area safer and it just took a while because in that area It's just not sure what's county and what city so so that's what we're doing tonight. Thank you Alderman boran Thank you your honor I'm very happy to see that This resolution is proposed. This is out of my neighborhood on the south side and the way it is right now It's very it's very hazardous for everybody. So I'm very happy to see that We're recommending that this being changed to 35 miles an hour. Thank you. Thank you Okay Call you Susha Vander wheel for Hansel boran Surtah Davis graph Hanna Kittleson Clowness Manny Meyer Montemayor Radke and Ryan 15 eyes motion carries matters laid over 11 of 1247 what we'll hold for 1594 1420 and 1421 and 22 Alderman Montemayor Thank you your honor. I moved to accept and adopt the order The arrow and the ordinances be put upon their passage That's 1420 21 and 22. Yes, please and the second to under discussion There being on please call the roll Vander wheel for hassled boran Surtah Davis graph Hanna Kittleson Clowness Manny Meyer Montemayor Radke Ryan and Susha 15 eyes motion carries 1435 resolution number 1480607 by Alderman graph Hanna Clowness Susha and born authorizing a transfer of appropriations in the old six budget Alderman graph Thank you, your honor. I would move that the resolution be put upon its passage Motion and second under discussion Be none, please call roll for hassled Warren Surtah Davis graph Hanna Kittleson Clowness Manny Meyer Montemayor Radke Ryan Susha and Vander wheel 15 eyes Motion carries 1458 general ordinance number 430607 by Alderman Susha Clowness Montemayor Kittleson and Manny reestablished into salary position for the position of all the person of the city of Sheboygan Alderman Susha Thank you, your honor. I move that the ordinance be put upon its passage Motion second under discussion. Thank you, your honor What we're doing here is establishing the salary of the Alderman in the year 2009 It's common practice to vote on this when actually you have to vote on it when Nobody that's currently on the council would be guaranteed a seat in 2009. We cannot set our own salary So that's what we're doing. We're way ahead of the game by looking at the year 2009 So I would ask that you support this. Thank you For the discussion and non, please call roll boron Surtah Davis graph Hannah Kittleson Clowness Manny Meyer Montemayor Ratke Ryan Susha Vander wheel and for hassle 7 eyes 8 nose motion fails 1458 general ordinance number 43 oh wait a minute 1459 General ordinance number 440607 by all the sushi Clowness Montemayor Kittleson and Manny so as to add delete Various positions from the fire department table of organization all of them in Susha Thank you, your honor. I move that the ordinance be put upon its passage Motion second under discussion There being none, please call a roll Surtah Davis graph Hannah Kittleson Clowness Manny Meyer Montemayor Ratke Ryan Susha Vander wheel for hassled and boron 15 eyes motion carries 1460 and 61 won't take those two together all in a Susha Thank you, your honor. Yeah, I would move that 1460 and 61 be put upon their passage Motion and second under discussion There is none, please call the roll I'm going too fast. Sorry. Just hold on. Okay, Davis graph Hannah Kittleson Clowness Manny Meyer Montemayor Ratke Ryan Susha Vander wheel for hassled Boron and Surtah 12 eyes 2 nose Motion carries other matters authorized by law 1570 Ford I'm sorry. Yes with the two missing one. I'm sorry What is that it's not on the agenda I stand corrected 13 to 2 would make it a better number 13 eyes 2 nose 13 eyes 2 nose motion carries right Thank you Other matters authorized by law 1574 will refer to law and licensing 1575 an arrow by the city clerk granting various licenses vice president Surtah. Thank you, your honor I move that the ROV accepted in place on file Motion seconded acceptance file under discussion There'd be a none all those in favor say aye Any opposed motion carries 1576 refer to public protection and safety 1577 refer to finance 1578 to be referred to public protection and safety 1579 an arrow by the library director stating that at the meeting of the meet public library board They recommended accepting and filing a letter from Carter Paul us regarding his concerns with various issues about the library Vice president Surtah. Thank you, your honor. I move that the ROV accepted in place on file Motion and second under discussion There is none all those in favor say aye Any opposed motion carries 1580 an arrow by the city clerk submitting an application for a private well permit for Alan and Mary Lee Kalk Vice president Surtah. Thank you, your honor. I move that we accept and file the arrow Motion and second any discussion There is none all those in favor say aye Any opposed motion carries 1581 lies over until November 27th 1582 will be referred to finance 1583 also lies over to November 27th meeting 1584 will be referred to municipal court advisory committee 1585 an arrow by the city clerk submitting the final report of the board of parks and forestry commissioners dog study Subcommittee vice president Surtah. Thank you, your honor. I move that the arrow be accepted in place down file Motion and second place on file under discussion all urban Meyer Thank you, your honor. We would like to hold this there have been some issues that have come up and We didn't want this to go through tonight. Don't hold it referred to somewhere. I guess refer back to the park and forestry There's motion second refer back to board of parks and forestry commission Under discussion Okay, so I'm gonna turn off all the lights because there were some blinking and start over under this hold on hold on Christmas It's been hashed and hashed and hashed by committees and subcommittees and here we go again Okay, I'm turning off the Christmas tree lights again all of them Warren Thank you, your honor and reading over this report. I'm very impressed with the work that was done by the committee I guess I'm ready to move on with it But I if I'm not gonna if I'm not gonna support it tonight I guess I'd like to have some specific reasons from the from the older persons as to why we should Not move on with it. Thank you Thank you Ellen born Alderman manner will hear next sir Thank you, honor. I'll support send this back to community because I received quite a few phone calls last night About um, well, it's just kind of miscommunication with the citizens in the areas that we're gonna have this dog run and I guess if if I could I'd ask the mayor to make it this this report available If maybe at the library or on the internet so that people can know the report and know exactly what we see It's possible for the citizens to contact their older people But I know Sunday night. I wasn't the only people a person to get a bunch of phone calls So that's why I think it's important to hold this so we can communicate with the citizens Thank you Susan would you make a note of that? Thank you You do have to a lady made it made a comment to me says wherever you go You're gonna please 50 people and this please 50 more so you're gonna go back and forth you're gonna go back and do that But that's okay. I mean that's part of what a debate is but this thing this dog issue Not gonna go away and I mean It's a great balance and acts of good luck I'll admire Thank you, your honor. Um, I had received these phone calls older person on to mayor received them and what happened was when this committee was set up it was Understood that if there were any neighbors that lived in these areas that had concerns then these parks or beach areas Would be removed and that did happen with Moose Park and last night We received many phone calls from people that are using a certain beach area that they walk their dogs on and They made a point of saying that in this area people are now at this point letting their dogs run off leash And it is causing problems for them They are complaining of dogs growling dogs jumping on them and people not picking up after their dogs so I believe we need to go back and look at this one beach area and Take it off the table because we have a lot of disgruntled people Thank you Thank you, your honor. I think you're right 50 people will love it 50 people will hate it However, the criteria from the board of park and forestry commissioners and public works committee in this wonderful report that we have tonight number one says Avoid interference with other established uses or department sponsored activities and then it goes on to and from what We could tell by the telephone calls last evening the rest of the criteria also it Brought it up right against it So I think we do have to refer it back to the board of park and forestry commissioners and then also public works again Thank you Hold on many Thank you, your honor My concern the report is enforcement. How do we once we establish a much more open? Park policy So that everybody's needs are well-met that I don't think is addressed that I think is a key issue Report itself suggests as much when it says that 40% of dog owners do not clean up after their pets interest Hold on play with us Thank you, your honor. I also agree with Alderman Manny I wondering the police aren't gonna have the time to do this and I think it's gonna be some sort of committee of citizens or whatever group and I think they would have to take on a Big job in case you're coming up to somebody who's got a big mean dog That you're trying to enforce something so I think it is it does require some extra Consideration as to how we'll keep this in order and how we're gonna post it and how we're going to follow through on it So I thank you very much, but the committee did a great job and what they did so far Yes, it's clear Alderman Meyer D There actually is a board of Park and Forestry Commissioners dog study committee, which is a separate committee Is that where you wanted to go and also public works? And then my second question would be do you want to also send 1593 which is the resolution doing the same thing to the referral Okay, thank you. There was a motion who second is that included in the second? Thank you Alternatively Thank you, your honor Comment as far as enforcement. I mentioned this to alderman Meyer for the meeting this if and when the council acts on the document the Resolution that's on tonight's agenda to implement these Changes it will require ordinance changes as well Ordinances currently say, you know, you can't have a dog and here here here So that won't be self-executing there will need to be some ordinances that will change and You know that doesn't address the practical issue of enforcement, but it would Provide the mechanism for having the ordinance in place to enforce Thank you Thank you, your honor And they were speaking of certain alderman getting it. I got roasted royally before these hearings From the neighbors in Moose Park and the committee did Go along with their recommendations and how that park is a half a block from my home And I would love to see that part, but they said no, but the committee did do their job the citizens of this community did have the Availability for input at these public hearings. It's time to put this to bed It's time to move on with this and not for this debating about it Let's quit this thing moving forward so we get the ordinance changes We need to make this thing start happening so we can try this trial period. It's what we're looking at a trial period It's nothing permanent here. It's a trial period at this point in time as far as enforcement I find any dog droppings in the park people leave dog droppings in the park way in front of my house So I got go clean them up it happens on a regular. I wish it wouldn't but it happens So I mean you're gonna find another place, but I'd like to just say let's put this to bed Let's get it going. They've done their work. We're done. Thank you I'm sorry, all of them and then we'll Thank you, your honor That was the perfect time to fine tune this and send it back to committee. We're not in the huge dog walking season right now And you know it's getting colder and it's gonna start snowing And I think we should just fine tune this before we start changing the ordinance and everything else. Thank you Okay on the referral back to the subcommittee and the Board of Parks and Forestry Commission Poles in favor say aye Any opposed? roll call And this would be for 1585 and 1593, which is the matching resolution Yes, and I vote would be to refer graph Hannah Kittleson Clowness Manny Meyer Montemay or Radke Ryan Susha Vanderweel for Hasselt Bourne Serta and Davis Ten eyes for nose motion carries referred back 1586 will go to will be referred to public protection and safety 1587 will lie over until November 27th meeting 1588 will also lie over till the 27th meeting 1589 will be referred to finance 1590 will go to finance also 1591 a resolution by element Berg authorizing the appropriate city officials to execute the purchase of cell agreement buying between Sheboygan County and the city of Sheboygan By president Serta motion to Resolution thank you your honor. I moved that the resolution be put upon its passage Motion second. Thank you under discussion Alderman Kittleton Thank You mr. Mayor. I guess I just would like to know Who put this document together that was put together by our city attorney? Can I ask I need to ask a question on that because I'm as I read through it on page 6? Steve I'm looking at under number two Where the county shall provide notice to the same to the city in writing and offer city the option to repurchase said parcel At the purchase price set forth in section 1b4 When you go back and look at that I'm just questioning that that's on page 3 Is that the correct area that we want to put that under lease property or should it go back under the purchase price in terms of Payment, I'm just Wondering about that should it go under 5 rather than 4 Yes, okay good point. Okay. I thank you May I ask one more question? If you please thank you, and I also looked at on page 2 Under bullet point number 3 and I guess I just want this clear in my mind You've got survey of the property city at its expense shall obtain a current survey of the police station parcel Prepared by a registered surveyor and then down the very last sentence It's the city shall have ten days from the date of the receipt of the survey to approve same or to notify County of its objections to items disclose there in if city notifies county of objections to the survey And if county is unable or unwilling to correct same city may terminate this agreement Can you just? Just make that clear that's we have time then if there's something wrong with that Property yes, in other words the survey would show for instance if there were easements on the property Or encroachments that would Impact the ability to build a police station on the site something like that, you know if the county Back a hundred years ago had granted a power company the right to put the power line right through the middle of that site that's the sort of thing that would show up on the survey and If the that could not be removed That that would impact our ability to to build on there, and we might not want to The likelihood of that is pretty slim, but that would give us that option Okay, thank you very much Thank you Alderman Ryan Thank You your honor. I Don't know if we're putting the cart before the horse here. We have coming up here also Resolution by Alderman van der wheel to enter into contract for a site investigation 15-92 I'm looking at this or we're going to purchase the property on this document on 1591 And then we're going to do an environmental investigation on the property on 1592 Before people start throwing rocks at me here for delaying the process. I might have duck It seems to me that the cart is before the horse we have a In this purchase agreement we have That the property is being purchased as is In page 6 number 4 in other words when the property is purchased the date of the purchase What you see is what you get is? basically the way this reads and We have here. We're going to authorize To pert to we're going to authorize if this passes a site investigation Based upon the Fade phase one and phase two environmental assessments that were done in order to figure out what type of Contamination is on the property? I'm just wondering at this point. Is it wise to purchase the property in this document? As is and then do a site investigation to find out what we're dealing with In this document that's my question to the council at this point I'll ask Tony McLean to respond to that turn clean. Thank you mayor Oh and Ryan if you look at the item Roman numeral 2a on page three Conditions preceding to sales right of inspection That provides that each party So have the right to inspect the others parcel take soil borings groundwater samples and so forth We've got 60 days in which to do that from the time we enter into the agreement That 60 days originally the first draft that I had prepared had a 30-day time frame when when we talked about Following up and doing the the follow-up site investigation With the northern environmental To complete the investigation of the site their report indicates that at the outside would be seven weeks So that's within the 60 days So we changed the 30 days to 60 days so that once we enter to the into the agreement we've got And we enter the agreement to do the site investigation there'll be ample opportunity Within the 60 days to have the site investigation work completed From Ryan follow-up question Thank you your honor same same question So what we're saying is that with the 60-day window we can go ahead and authorize in 1592 to purchase the property and That we can also authorize or in 1591 excuse me to purchase the property and in 1592 We can do the site investigation now does this then authorize that if we find the big can of worms under the ground in the site investigation this contract reads such that We have the right to not purchase that property within a 60-day time frame. Is that what we're saying? Yes Go on that paragraph 2a Follows through the next sentence in the event that a party determines that as a result of its inspection It does not wish to close that party must within the 60 days of the day to the agreement Provide the other party with written notice of its attention of its intention not to close So that would that would take us off the hook. Yeah in that case. Yes And I will support this. Thank you your honor. Thank you Okay We have 1591 motion has been made to put resolution upon this passage. Please call the rule Hannah Kittleson Clowness Manny Meyer Montemay or Radke Ryan Susha Vander wheel for hassled Born Serta Davis and graph 15 eyes Motion carries 1592 a resolution by Alderman Vander wheel authorizing the purchase. I'm sorry 1592 will be referred to public protection and safety 1593 a Resolution by all of my are adopting the recommendations outlined in the board of Park Parks and Forestry Commissioners Doug study Committees final recommendation making the city's park system pet friendly Alderman Meyer We've already acted on that. Let's do we take that too. Yeah, Alderman Meyer took this one and they are all together to refer on Speak please do We go back to 1592 I guess I would suggest we Have approved 1591 that rather than delay The inspection Authorizing into that contract that you may wish to suspend the rules on that and act on that tonight 1592 yes, that's what I just Is there anyone that would like to move to suspend the rules? Motion seconds suspended or any objection to that there being none all in favor say aye Any opposed motion carries all men rough motion. I was good. Thank you your honor I'm making motion that the resolution we put upon its passage Motion second under discussion Alderman Vander wheel Thank you under under discussion I would just ask and I don't I don't have this document right in front of me right now But I know that the money was coming out of the police department fund was that is that part of the plan? I mean it was that money put aside for these things specifically I'm not quite sure I'd have to ask mr. Gephardt on that we can get you an answer for that though All right Susan would you please note that Susan? All in Kittleson. Thank you, mr. Mayor I guess I just have to clear up another thing here if we're going to suspend the rules on 1592 You're saying this is a resolution authorizing the purchasing agent to enter into a contract for a site Investigation I guess what I want that's the same as a survey what we're asking here. What what is this is the? I'm cool. This is the Environmental investigation that's referenced in that in which in the contract in the contract where we have the right to do soil warrings and Inspect the property for it for environmental purposes Okay, all right. Thank you Okay, please call the rule Kittleson Plainess Manny Meijer Montemayor Ratke Ryan Sushia Vander wheel for hassled boron Surtah Davis graph and Hanna 15 eyes motion carries 1594 and I believe we said we would take care of 1247 an RC by finance Recommend and establish in the equivalent runoff unit Rate for the city stormwater management system user fee and passing the substitute resolution Alderman Crop, thank you, and I move that the RC be accepted and adopted in the substitute resolution be put upon its passage Motion in second under discussion Alderman Meijer Thank you, your honor I would like to make a motion to amend the substitute resolution number 80-607 By changing the second be it therefore to read at one dollar instead of a dollar fifty and That the next two be it therefore resolved be stricken from the resolution and that the last be it Further resolved reflect January 1st 2009 for calendar year 2009 Effectively eliminating the stormwater fee in two years Alderman Meijer, can I have your notes, please? Afterwards, you need them now You just pass them forward if you want Supported this going for five years I've recently considered and I will support the two year Thank you Alderman Hanna Alderman Ryan Thank You mr. Mayor. I would hate to be known as the person that voted to keep an unpopular fee Tax whatever you want to call it City right now if we are this year Saying that in order to reach our zero increase budget that We're cutting back. We're really hurting to do it and that next year As the mayor has said we're going to have a hard time doing that. We're going to have to Basically increase tax levy This is an unpopular fee there are people that ran for office saying they're going to get rid of this fee But it does raise Million and a half dollars for the city every year with 80% of that or 70% plus of it funded by business as opposed to the individual homeowner It's 36 dollars a year for the homeowners Myself, I know my company we get bill close to two thousand dollars a year For our stormwater fee. I don't like to pay it I don't think anybody likes to pay fees taxes but If we're in a bad financial situation if you're in a bad financial situation, I don't think that you look for ways to get rid of your revenue It's usually not a smart thing to do you get rid of your revenue and then you turn around and say well We don't have the revenue. So let's just get rid of part of the company Or Let's just get rid of some of the people that are running the company working for the company So at this point, I'm not going to support this. I'm not going to You know, it might not be popular Might not give me any votes in the future, but I'm not going to vote to we send the stormwater fee at this point Thank you. Thank you. Oh woman sushi Thank you your honor In my opinion The funding of infrastructure in shabuigan is equally as important as as funding public protection Unfortunately, the previous administration didn't agree with my opinion And the public works management was forced to come up with a creative way to supplement their budget Hence the implementation of the stormwater fee There unfortunately though there are some guidelines that were documents that the city filed with the dnr There are recommendations that the dnr gave to the city in regards to managing the stormwater And when you analyze what was being done, we were not utilizing the 1.5 million to actually Deal with the stormwater problems that were outlined by the dnr So I have trouble supporting the continuation of this if if we're not going to do what the dnr is pretty much Recommending it doesn't make much sense. I think that the city of shabuigan is being taken for a ride by the Water utility because the water utility is charging us $77,000 a year to put that line item on our bill The residents in this city are only billed quarterly So four times a year they're required to put one little sentence on a water bill that they're already said to go And they're charging the city $77,000 for that I think that was that was not a good deal in the best interest of the city But in regards to how we're going to fund the stormwater management and the public works department in the future This council has already taken the first steps The capital improvements committee changed the request from mr. Holton for the 2007 budget He requested an additional $250,000 And the capital improvements committee increased that already To bring it up to $750,000 That money will be used to take care of the flooding problem On the intersection of fifth in new york. So we have already Taking care of one third of the stormwater fee for next year. This council has already approved that So that's been taken care of As the mayor mentioned earlier, we're in the process of restructuring the table of organization Hopefully that will save the city hundreds of thousands of dollars And some of that money could be used for the public works department In the year 2008 The the tax incremental district over by the new walmart is going to be expiring And for the first time ever the holiday and express perkins wendy's wgnr The new walmart and everything else in that area is going to be coming on to the tax rolls And you know cities go to benefit as well as the county and the schools with with that Tax incremental district expiring. We're so good at creating them But in the next couple of years, we're going to start feeling the fruits of Of the the elimination of them when they expire all of that Property is coming out of the tax rolls and that's going to be a huge surge into the city's general fund And I would recommend that a good portion of that money in 2008 also be put towards public works to help Take care of the stormwater Problem One of the big concerns as I was looking into this situation is I'm very concerned with the e-coli levels I met with several people over in public works and what I found is that you can link When there's a rainstorm and you check the storm water, you can link the runoff where the flock of seagulls are located Sometimes the number goes up over 5 000 at those collection Are those outlets and to close the beaches in shabuigan to the red zone You only need a count of 1 000 So the gulls are definitely contributing to the problem that we have And chasing them from one point to the other isn't necessarily the answer It's going to come down to talking about oily the eggs and getting dnr permission to do that to control the size But that is something that needs to be addressed to the future Overall, I think this is a nice compromise that alderperson meyer is proposing the original document called for er U of a dollar 50 in 2007 at eliminated in 2008 the finance committee Um made a recommendation of going down to $2 at 07 a dollar 50 at 08 a dollar at 09 50 cents in 2010 eliminated in 11 And now the current proposal meets uh right in between the two we we go down to $2 at 07 $1 at 08 and it would be gone at 09. So I want to thank alderperson meyer for making that change Alderman grouse, thank you. I that's I want a clarification of the motion because I I thought she had said that it stays at um at $2 in you know 7 and then goes down to $1 in you know 8 But is it 150 and then $1 or do you want me to read it? Please Uh to amend The substitute resolution by changing the second be it further Be it therefore to read quote at $1 instead of 150 And that in the next Be it further resolved be stricken from the in the next two further be it resolved be stricken from the resolution And that the last be it further resolved reflect january 2009 For calendar year 2009 effectively eliminating the stormwater fee In two years does that make sense? Thank you. Um Yes Then it does um, thank you In um in finance, uh, I supported the the five-year phase out or the four-year phase out whatever you want to consider this But after receiving um Quite a few calls on this particular issue over um for past weekend. Um I am I will be supporting uh the amendment to go to The $1 in in 2008 leaving into $2 in 2007 And then phasing it out completely After the two years Next we have alderman borne Thank you your honor I also supported the five-year phase out in finance and i'm going to support The two-year phase out, but uh, I guess before the taxpayers and shabuigan Start popping any champagne corks The cost for these projects is not going to go away It's going to come out of the general fund Which is the property tax or for the larger projects They're probably going to have to be bonded for and so that means that the majority of these costs Are still going to be borne by the residential property taxpayers and also the business taxpayers So i'm glad to see this go away But the cost of these projects is not going to go away They're just going to be coming from the usual sources again the property taxpayers and the business taxpayers Uh This was a very hard decision for me to make in the first place even to do away with this fee Although I do hate taxes and I do hate fees Unfortunately, I do not have a lot of sympathy for some of the large Non-profits in this town, which I won't mention any names, but they know who they are Who are getting a free ride? They are going to get a free ride again when this phase is out And also are not paying anything for fire protection Police protection or any other public's work services that they're receiving So I'm going to go along with this Because that's what my constituents want me to do But I do have some reservations about eliminating it. Thank you Going born next we have Alderman Cleodas Thank you your honor, I also um hesitate to uh take it away because I think we still have responsibilities by taking them away the fees away We still have um water means that are undersized We have water means that are damaged and need to be redone and that kind of thing is going on constantly This is an older city And we can't just think well because we're not paying this fee that somehow it's not going to come back and bite us So, um, I also I I think I'm of not support the amendment as it is Alderman Vanderweel Thank you, honor um I haven't met one person yet that likes fees or taxes. No one likes to pay him. You just kind of accept it I would love the the vote to get rid of this As a factory worker 36 dollars means a lot to me But it's easy to get rid of a fee The hard part is Making a plan to replace that fee what I need to know before I would get rid of this is In seven years ten years down the road Am I going to be paying more than 36 dollars a year in my taxes to make up for all these projects? We have a an old sewer system and things that we have to maintain like alderman born and alderman clehunis has Stated today And before I would vote to to get rid of this fee I would need to see a plan on how we're going to look at it in the next seven to ten years Thank you. We do have a capital improvement plan for five years and we've put together to address a lot of these issues that Uh Sure My and and I realize that that that we borrow and as it goes on we'll take care of these projects But we're going to have to pay back the money And without this fee it's going to have to come out of The taxes of the general person. Thank you. Thank you Vice president sir Thank you, your honor There were some statements made in public form and on the floor that Has raised four questions for me that I would like to address to either mr. Holton or mr. Bebel if if I so may Mr. Holton Thank you, mr. Holton If you could address number one the under utilize I guess we're left with an impression through public form that we're under utilizing these dollars And there could be a potential of inappropriate use of these dollars That's not true. The all that money is being used for the going towards a storm water system Like some of the ghost administration it goes to Uh, it's about six employee equivalents for the maintenance and repair of the system The overtime that was talked about. Yes, that was higher than expected But the regular salaries was lowered by that amount also so Comparing the two together Between was appropriated and what was spent within a thousand dollars. Okay. Thank you second question is the state Report which was submitted from your office It was quoted that um, you recognize that we have no flooding problems. Is this true? No, that's not true. Okay Thirdly What how how will this affect then the maintenance of our roads if we take the storm water fee away? Well, I guess the efficiencies of your office as well I guess i'm not gonna understand the question as far as the capital improvement side it will be competing With the street repairs the resurfacing and the paving Which I guess coincides with my last question. Do you then Um, would you recommend or do you think it's sufficient enough the 250 000 dollars that was earmarked for 2007? To meet those costs and our future costs. Do you think it can be handled appropriately just by earmarking that amounts out of capital improvements? Of of the 1.5 million up was raised roughly one one million goes to the operations maintenance repair 500 was going towards the capital Improvements projects and we were banking that money because our first project is the fifth new york, which is about 1.25 million So we have With next year now even the king was coming out of the general borrowing. We finally had that money In place for next year to do that project An acquaintance down to say about the 250 000 That was the idea I guess I if you could just share with the public Do you foresee cost exceeding the 250 000 dollars out of capital improvement? Let's say if we did we earmark that every year you see the cost for you know, we have roughly 15 and a half million dollars Of projects that we'd like to see Implement and it's going to take Years to do that I think we're all to 2017 I believe That probably wasn't even that's probably very aggressive even with the storm mod utility. So it Like I could delay some of the projects Thank you Allerman reckey Thank you your honor And I know this was a pledge of some people including myself But I've had numerous homeowners numerous businesses contact me in my time on this council asking Why this tax was ever put into place and it is a tax There's no two ways about it Taxes seem to come up overnight The original proposal was to get rid of it the five years Me myself. I'd like to get rid of it right now, but I can support two years There are some administration fees with this to this minute I cannot see why the shaboying water utility charges of this council or this city one nickel To do something for this council we have to go and turn around and do so much for them as a council to make sure that they continue to run efficiently I don't think that is right and I want to take a look at that But I think we need to put this to bed two years from now. It's fine. It's unpopular program It's an unpopular tax and it's just going to show us we need to start living within our means Which hadn't happened for so many years before I got here enough is enough. Let's put it to bed right now I call the question. Thank you Motion the second to call the question. We will vote Of course three quarter votes Two thirds two thirds Who seconded Call the roll boron Could you clarify what we're cutting off discussion? So this is an aye vote would be to call the question to stop discussion Aye Serda Davis Aye Raph Aye Hannah Aye Kittleson Aye Clay Unis Aye Manny No No Meyer Aye Montemayor Aye Ratke Aye Ryan Aye Sushia Aye Vanderwheel Aye Verhaselt Aye 14 ayes 1 no Motion carries we will call the question on the amendment. Please call the roll And just to clarify the amendment effectively eliminates the stormwater fee in two years Clay Unis No Manny No Meyer Aye Montemayor Aye Ratke Aye Ryan No Sushia Aye Vanderwheel No Verhaselt Aye Boran Aye Serda No Davis No Raph Aye Hannah Aye Kittleson No 8 ayes 7 noes Motion carries 15 All in the Sushia on votes been taken is there something you need to say Pardon me I just wanted you were voting on the amendment I'm sorry okay Right What the amendment carries now we need a motion to approve as amended Motion to approve as amended Motion second under discussion Thank you your honor. I just want to clarify a question that all the person Serda had asked Mr. Holton at the beginning of the meeting I know we have a lot of papers on our desk I did give a handout and I wasn't going to get into it get into it in depth. It's pretty obvious I put some arrows there if you have any questions you can talk to me about it afterwards But I did go over quite extensively the DNR reports You know we've got a couple of these larger reports that I picked up from public works And on the last page on the five page document that I handed out to you Is from the Sheboygan storm water management plan At the bottom it talks about the findings Point number two under findings Flooding is not a serious problem in the city That is where I believe the taxpayers alliance is getting that statement from I think we all will agree that we have isolated flooding situations Within the city that need to be desperately addressed You know we went through the bluff avenue and we've got fifth in New York These situations are going to be taken care of But Sheboygan is not in New Orleans We are not sitting in the bottom of a teacup If a big wave came I don't think we'd all be under water So I just wanted to point that out And if you have any questions about this document Please feel free to ask me about it after the meeting Thank you Thank you We'll call the roll on the motion as amended Manny This vote would be the substitute resolution as amended to be passed No Meyer Aye Montemayor Aye Ratke I'm sorry Ryan Sushia Aye Vanderweel No Berhasselt Aye Boren Aye Serta No Davis No Graf Aye Hannah Aye Kittleson No Clayunas No Adai Seven Noes Motion carries 1595 will go to public protection and safety 1596 go to public works 1597 Special Committee on Risk Management 1598 Special Committee on Risk Management 1599 Finance 15100 Public Works 15101 Public Works 15102 Public Protection and Safety 15103 Public Protection and Safety Other matters Attorney McLean 15104 Is an arrow by the city clerk Submitting the Forgunary School District 2006 Tax Levy to be used in 2007 That Lies over 15105 Is submitting the Lakeshore Technical College District 2006-2007 Tax Levy Report That Lies over 15106 Submitting and Communication from Melanie Koch Requesting that the dog run south of Blue Harbor be restored between October and April Since very few people from Blue Harbor are on the beach to Distress at that time Go to public works 15107 Submitting and Communication from Dwayne Knutson Vice President of Human Resources of the Follrath Company Requesting that the on-street parking In front of the company located at 1236 North 8th Street Be evaluated to determine If parking controls would help to alleviate the congestion in the area Go to public protection and safety 15108 Submitting and Communication from Jerry Festel 2924 Weedemeyer Avenue Requesting no parking signs be erected at the corners of Weedemeyer Avenue And at the corners of Wilson Avenue due to safety issues We've heard about protection and safety Is there a motion to adjourn? Ah, Mayor, before we adjourn there's a document that we did not act on Okay, what is that? Um, there's a document you did not act on It was the parent one, the one that went along with the storm water That's right You need to make a motion to file that one It's 12-47, that's the The motion to file Second Second All those in favor say aye Any opposed? Motion carries All those in favor adjourn in? Say aye It's been adjourned