 Welcome everyone to the April 4th, 2024 meeting of the Hyperledger Supply Chain and Trade Finance SIG. Today we are very lucky to have Meryl Sengo of the T3i Partner Network coming to speak with us. And I want to start the meeting by going over some Hyperledger housekeeping. Hyperledger is committed to creating a safe and welcoming community for all people. And up on the Wiki for today's meeting, there is a Hyperledger Code of Conduct. You're welcome to click through there to learn more if you would like. Also, as this is a public forum, we have the Antitrust Policy Notice. As long and short of it is, this meeting is an open meeting and the recording will be available to all. So please don't share any non-public information here because we want to make sure that this information can be shared. We have some exciting events coming up in the World of Blockchain and Trade Finance. The Linux Foundation is having their open-source summit later this month. At our next meeting, at our next SIG meeting, we're going to be doing some project planning. Then we're going to, on May 2nd, we're going to be having Bobby Moskera from the Giving Chain present on how they are using NFTs. In May, we're going to hear from Alexander Steyl of Ventaurus. SIG member Ned Thompson was able to connect with him and invite him. Then in June, the Freight Waves Future of Supply Chain conference is going to be taking place in Atlanta. So at our next SIG meeting on April 18, we're going to be talking about our new blog. We've already planned the first two installments. Jeff and Tom are focused on working on the first. I'm going to be working on the second one, but we're going to speak more about that and talk about other ways to get involved. Please bring any ideas for your blog posts, anything you want to read, anything you want to create. And then also, my still, yes, and I still won't zoom. And then today, our big event, we have Meryl Sengos, she's going to present on the digitization of trade and trade finance in Turkey. Blockchain for export transactions and economic inbox of the UN model law on electronic transferable records. So I'm going to stop sharing now. I'm going to stop sharing. And Meryl, would you like to, Meryl, the meeting is now yours, the floor is now yours. Thank you very much for this introduction. Nice to see you, meet you and thank you very much for everybody coming here. I'm sharing my screen now. Do you see my screen without my notes? Not yet. Not yet. Okay. How about now? Now we can see your slide and the notes. Okay, I will try. I don't want to show my notes, so I will stop share and one more time I will try. Thank you for your patience. Now, how is it? Do you see my notes? We can still see the notes, yes. Yes, yes. What you should have done is you change to PowerPoint slides. Okay, then you share the PowerPoint slides. First presenter view. Yes, PowerPoint slides. Then share the slides. Don't share the presenter slide. Yes, I'm doing this mistake always guy. Now I can. Yes, perfect. Thank you very much. I'm learning from you. We are talking about technology, but as it is seen, I'm not good in technology too. It's a great pleasure to be here. Thank you for inviting me. I'd like to start by talking about where am I and what I do now. I have 25 years of experience in banking, fintech and government sectors. I was a senior executive at Ish Bank, which is one of the largest bank in Turkey. And I worked in trade finance, cross-border transactions and commercial loan banking areas. And I had a lot of digitalization experience in my banking career, but one of them is very special for me, which is blockchain-based implementation of payment commitment product of Marco Polo Network. I left my banking career in 2021 and I work as a consultant for first the Marco Polo Network, then for Contour Trade Network. Now I am partner of T3i Network and we just completed a project on adoption of NITR in Turkey for the Ministry of Trade and EBRD. For who may not know, T3i is a partner network and global collective of industrial leading specialists in trade, treasury and technology with the focus of digital innovation. Now we are the largest international advisory network with more than 40 specialists around the world with deep expertise. And one of our expertise areas is the military in Citrals, ICCs, World Trade Organization documents. I would like to first of all talk about last year's key developments, which a lot of things happened last year really. First of all, I would like to talk about UK's ETA. Last year the UK approved the Electronic Trade Document Act ETA in September. The ETA plays a pivotal foundation for advancement of digital trade. ETA facilitates the transformation of essential trade and trade finance documents into digital assets. I'm saying this again, it is digital assets door. The act primarily includes bill of sledding, bill of exchange and promise renotes. And according to ETA, trade records are equivalent to the papers under determined conditions. As it is known, the vast majority of the international trade contracts in the supply chain world are signed under UK law. So this reform is very important for the digitization of trade and trade finance industry. UK's ETA aligns with United Nations model law on electronic transferable records. I will say after that as military. Military prior to UK, six other countries had already adopted laws in line with the military. And several other countries including India, Turkey, China and Japan have shown keen interest in the military and are actively studying its potential. Additionally, some countries like Germany, France and the USA are the advanced level of the adoption of this military. The second development of the last year is decreased in the presence of blockchain fintech companies. I would like to focus on and talk about three key blockchain fintech companies from the world of logistic and trade finance that have collapsed in the last year or so. The first one is trade lens. This was my favorite indeed. And I was very upset from the collapse of trade lens because this is a collaboration. Trade lens is a collaboration between MERSC and IBM was a global hyper ledger public blockchain platform designed to blow the flow of cargo from source to destination. It connected various parties involved in shipment, fostering true information sharing, collaboration and trust. The platform aim to increase visibility for shippers regarding the status, location and contents of the consignments. Indeed, trade lens achieved a very product market with their claim was to be neutral and open. However, the market pursued them primarily as a MERSC product. Right forwarders in particular Harvard talks about trade lens in terms of trust. This perception hindered its adoption as an independent platform. When we look at the trade lens, they are simultaneously pursued two objectives. One is building a data platform and developing a suit application on top of it. Unfortunately, this dual focus created an underlying conflict impacting industry trust. While blockchain technology is integrating, many believe that more effective, cost effective, cost efficient and scalable technological solutions are exist. So while trade lens was closely tied to blockchain technology, trade parties afraid of new technology investments. I would like to mention that too many in the industry agree that electronic bill of letting will play a crucial role in digitizing the trade finance industry. And we will certainly see new digitization in solutions in logistic side, either on blockchain technology or other technologies. We can easily draw this insight from digital container shipper association and beam coms commitment to accelerate e-bill of lettings 100% by 2030. My experience with Marco Polo is the second fintech. Marco Polo established on R3's quarter framework and their aim was to simplifying and speeding up process behind open account trade finance services. And it successfully signed up more than Turkey banks as members, including Ishbank from Turkey. However, progress was slower than anticipated and despite many efforts Marco Polo network was shared in February 2023. When we come to contour, contour platform established by consortium of leading banks like BMP, Paribia, HSBC and Standard Chartered Bank. The platform which run on R3's for the platform enabled banks and corporates to issue, manage and process letter of credits electronically. Despite its advantages and the value it provided, contour again faced challenges in attracting a sufficient user base to its platform. Ultimately due to its inability to raise sufficient funds from its bank shareholders, contour was compelled to terminate its service in October 2023. Now I want to delve into the challenges drawing from insights gained from my experiences with Marco Polo network and contour. The first one is absence of legal frameworks. This is a big challenge for fintechs because trade and trade finance industry have been relying on papers in the sense of sales contracts, trade documents and trade finance operation processes. We don't have a widely accepted legal frameworks like military to conduct transactions based on these trade records and fintech companies are very helpful facilitators in enabling the transition to digitization because they are known with their agility and flexibility in adopting new technologies compared to traditional banks. However, the lack of local and internationally accepted legal structures for digitization in conjunction with international agreement is a real obstacle for scalability of these fintechs. Because this lack of legal frameworks creates two challenges for blockchain fintechs in my view. The first one is related to onboarding of new entrants. Because at the end of the day, fintechs should have its legal base in a private law framework. In my experience, I have seen that banks and corporates who want to join the networks have to sign so many papers to be accepted and this process takes a long time and requires blockchain technology familiar lawyers. This is a big obstacle for onboarding process. The second one, maybe more important than the first one, is related to the transferability of the transaction records outside the network. For example, a company member or corporate member of blockchain based supply chain platform cannot transfer a bill of lending or invoice or a bill of exchange to a bank that does not belong to the same platform. This is a really major barrier to the smooth flow of trade data. As a result, in my experience, it's almost funny that in the quest to eliminate paper based trade, we end up signing more papers. And as a solution, I guess we need adoption of military and we need international signed agreements on this issue. Now, the second one in my view is absence of digital internationally accepted digital identities and reliable methods. This is a big challenge for scalability of blockchain fintechs. In reliable methods such as token based and distributed ledger based systems, not necessary digital signatures. Because if a reliable method is used to identify a person and to indicate that person's intention related with information in the DLT, the functional equivalence of signature will be met on the system. Yes, these issues really consume a lot of time and resources, but also hinder scalability of fintechs and the whole industry. I am sure that in near future, we will see legal entity identifiers and international collaborations on this area together with send back trials backed by regulators for reliable systems by accepting the military in country levels. Also, we don't forget the complexity of the trade industry. The trade industry really presents a formidable challenge due to its inherent complexity. Each sector has numerous variations, making it difficult to standardize processes. Moreover, companies exhibit varying levels of readiness, particularly in terms of mindset and hindering smooth transactions. In trade and trade finance, there are too many stakeholders. And while blockchain technology addresses trust issues among these parties, it also introduces some complexities in achieving harmonious collaboration. And I guess, trade lines is a good example of trust problem between parties. I am very confident that with the assistance of AI and common international standards, we can overcome these challenges and pave the way for successful supply chain blockchain fintechs. We just need more time and experience together with standardization and regulatory things. Before digitizing trade and supply chain flows, achieving international standards is also crucial. While trade documents share similar features and data fields, consensus on standard design, these areas remain limited to specific trade regions or sectors. For instance, every country has its own invoice standards. At the international level, there is no universal consensus on invoice formats yet. Another example from the view of standards can be come from logistics sector. Let's say Rotterdam port may not accept the same standards with port of China or port of Istanbul in Turkey. We should keep in mind that some important countries also strategically use paper-based trade documents as a policy tool to protect their local industries from competition with countries that have a comparative advantage. As a result, without standard, it is impossible to communicate more than 5,000 trade data fields. And ICC-DSI is a digital standard initiative doing very good jobs in this area. The fifth one is resistant from trade stakeholders. This is also one of the reasons of the collapse of the blockchain fintechs. Because numerous inefficiencies block supply chain flows, many stemming from century old legacy of paper-based trust and reliance on current intermediaries who profit from these outdated structures. And I see that especially operation and IT units within these companies perceive for the technology investment as unnecessary in the short to medium term. In addition, supply chain intermediaries entrenched in the legacy of existing systems are reluctant to digitize trading processes. So we need more training, patience, and maybe incentives from governments for digitization. In my experience, I also see that cloud infrastructure is another challenge for digitization because each country's regulatory body are meticulous about safeguarding trade data and often prohibit sharing such data on cloud servers located in other countries. Consequently, special banks have been patiently awaiting legal regulations that allow them to utilize cloud-based storage abroad. And blockchain technology inherently demands substantial storage capacity, which is where cloud technology becomes very crucial. However, without international agreements, specifically addressing the protection of the trade data and various cloud-based storage abroad remains a significant challenge, one that consumes really considerable effort during the onboarding process. What are the main take a face? DRT are still seen as expensive and inflexible compared to existing traditional solutions still. And still DRT or blockchain is not seen as a trustable technology because of absence of legal framework and control mechanisms. Interability and scalability is a problem because of absence of the standards and digital identity is not rippling yet. Now I want to talk about Turkey and utilization of blockchain technology in the end-to-end export transactions. Since 2019, Turkey has been experiencing blockchain technology. First of all, I want to talk about Blockchain Turkey platform. It is an independent nonprofit organization. I have been continuing to take active roles in activities of Blockchain Turkey since it was founded. Our vision is to establish a sustainable blockchain ecosystem in Turkey. And we are expanding both awareness and use of blockchain technology by setting up a bridge between law makers, public bodies, regulators and private sector entities. This is really a very good platform to collaborate on it. On the other hand, in Turkey, banks have an entrepreneurial spirit to go digital. In trade finance blockchain landscape, first commerce are local banks of Işbanks and Akbank. Işbank went to live with Marco Polanet and Akbank went to live with V-Trade in trade finance industry. These are really very valuable experiences for our sector. In governmental level, on the other hand, we finished a project on blockchain, which is also used in hyperledger fabric. This project presents us with valuable findings. The purpose of the project is to demonstrate the impact of the features of blockchain technology on export processes when used together with smart contracts. These effects include transparency, ease of inspection and the creation of an environment of trust to facilitate export. In the project, considering actions of all stakeholders, a private and permissioned blockchain network was created in accordance with governance model via hyperledger fabric. We experienced two types of export processes in the project. Firstly, export of electric bicycle to European Union via road transportation was examined. Secondly, export of cologne to the United States of America via air transportation is done on hyperledger fabric. The stakeholders are exporters, minister of trade, exporters associations, custom broker, pride company, bank, insurance company and agent of shipping company. We have two-minute stakeholders. Project SCOP starts with the creation of ECO invoice by the exporter on Turkish Revenue Administration's digital platform and ends with the route leading to the Turkish border. What are the steps of the project? Firstly, the project study started with the churned process analysis and stakeholders who performed transaction in the process were identified in order to create the governance model. Then the detection of bottlenecks and the weak points with operational flow in the existing system determined. After that, new flow and processes were modeled for the implementation of hyperledger fabric technology. After all these processes, the software development and blockchain network configuration started. Upon the completion of the software development processes, the operability of the applications was tested in test scenarios. What are the findings? When we look at the main findings of the project, firstly, when transactions made with blockchain, it is observed that work steps reduced by approximately 40%. Why? The reasons are below. Reduction of paper-based procedures are used and performing transactions only with data makes a huge difference compared to paper. And it also goes to shortening processes and facilitating export and also accelerating processes to smart contracts is possible. Also, maybe more importantly, eliminating of repetitive data sharing in the export processes is possible in the project. We see that also increasing cooperation between stakeholders because data is flowing with smart contracts and automatically nobody fight while preparing the papers. This also strengthens the data security and traceability. The second finding is it is determined that controls on large data sets of customs, declarations and e-invoys have reduced the use of smart contracts. In case of continuity of the project, a review of the data models is strongly advised in this sense. Overall, these findings confirm the impact of blockchain use on the optimization of operational processes. It is really very nice findings in the sense of blockchain. In Turkey also we have been working on military project. As T3I we completed a project for Republic of Turkey Ministry of Trade and European Bank. The name of the project is supporting digital trade in Turkey through legal reform. To develop what is the objective, our objective is to develop a business case for amending the local legislative framework to align with military. This involves conducting desktop research, interviews and surveys with the related local and international stakeholders to obtain relevant data which can be used to identify the economic benefits of legal alignment with the military. We did firstly quantitative and structured interviews with financial sector and businesses to see the scale of the market and its growth and to validate secondary research on current market conditions. Then as a second step, we did a market survey with a large sample of to give estimation on magnitude of the opportunity from a bottom-up perspective. Next step was triangulation of first and second step above with approach to estimate the proportion of the market that is most suitable to trade asset distribution. Then from the results of the survey we estimate trade growth, efficiency, savings and cost improvements with other economic variables included as appropriate. What are the main findings? We concentrated three pillars, cost, productivity and growth. As you may see, 7% net cost improvement for businesses and 24% improvement for banks. We see this effect on cost sides. At the productivity side, when we look at the business side, the productivity gain assumption can be 21%. And lower estimate of the growth is about 25% if less time spent on finance form survey. Effects of 25% growth over survey will amplify over time as efficiencies and productivity improvements take effect. As you may see, the proportions are not low, very good in the sense of growth and productivity. When we concentrate on the export potential of Turkey, potential export growth can be done two thirds higher by 2030. And we are expecting from our survey 57 billion extra trade by 2030. And in Turkey, exports are forecast on current trend to grow by 5% annually to 2030. With 25% growth assumed over time period, this adds another three annually to growth. And we are expecting that the fastest growth is towards the end of the time period will of course increase. Concluding remarks, 83% of banks say that legislation is a barrier to trade digitization. And 87% of banks say a change in legislation will accelerate adoption. There are material benefits that are evident from the results, a change in the legislation is seen as a foundation. And lastly, I want to share with you the comparison of the other studies done in other countries. Similar studies are done in UK, Commonwealth and G7. And as you may see, Turkey has similar results with UK and G7. Commonwealth study also similar results, but there are too many different types of countries in Commonwealth area like Canada or Morocco. These kinds of things, different kinds of countries cause the bigger interval from 16% to 45% in growth site. At cost sites in Turkey, in business side, 7%, bank side 25% improvement expecting. In UK study, cost improvement is 25%. And G7, it is also differentiate between 7% and 25%. Thank you very much for listening to me. It was a great talking. Maybe we can talk each other about my findings and now I am very in dark. Is there a blackout there? Yes, in Turkey. Even if not at times, while I am presenting. Thank you so much. That was fascinating, really learned a lot from that and thank you. Thank you for introducing and inviting me to come and join us. I'm hoping you have time for some question and the answer and I imagine that other people have questions as well. I'd like to go back. You spoke about the blockchain Turkey platforms, 2019 with the two types of digitized import export tracking the electric bikes and the clone, and that transactions made with blockchain reduced work steps by 40%. What was the response on the side of the importing countries to that? And was there an increasing in demand for that type of digitization? Yes, good question. The all the exercises or experiences are at the export side because we tried to import site, but we need a country that have a same vision. And also we need some kind of international agreements that data is available to paper. Because of these obstacles last year, we tried export site, but with acceptance of adopting of military in Turkey. Let's say we will transact with Singapore because they are accepted military. Let's say we can transact with UK, Germany, we are preparing for this kind of digital agreements, digitalization agreements done. And most probably it will be in handbags firstly, because there are too many things that we should compose digital identities, cloud issues, these signature issues, blah, blah, blah. So we are waiting these developments for import site. Okay. Thank you. I have a hundred questions. Jeff, Andrea, Ling, who else would like to ask it, speaking of questions. One question. It's maybe more broad based questions, but you mentioned about standardization of bill ladings invoices, the problem standardizing those. My question comes back to, I always made an assumption that those weren't actually stored on chain they were stored off chain in a smart contract enabled you to point to that document. So, if they're stored off change is there ever need I guess what is the need to try and worldwide standardize a building or an invoice if they're not stored on chain. So there can be electronic copy that signed cryptographically that somebody has access to and they would have to read it just like they do today. It would be digital. But what is what is the technical need I guess to in to standardize invoices is it a technical need or is it something else around that topic. This is important. I guess why you may know to two invoices using heavy using in international trade. One is export site export country in general export countries exporter using right invoice when when in the import country when the woods go to the customs of the importers to pay less tax custom tax. They are using a second paper invoice in general in times we are seeing this. So, the two types of the invoices and absence of the standards call a lot of tax, tax evasion avoidance avoidance avoidance or evasion. Even UK documents say that they have a huge leak in tax area because no digital data paper invoices and especially SMEs using this as a tool. So, yes. Yeah, we can use invoices in off chain, but since it is not standard, you cannot use robots capture right places in the document. This is a problem not standard. And I guess it is deliberately not standard until these days paper is not working will not work. I believe because blockchain technology or digitalization is a huge opportunity for the governments to collect more tax and to manage more appropriate way their trade policies. So I believe that it should be on chain. But this is a revolution, not a revolution in a kind of evolution. It's the first step, Jeff, I believe that ICC DSI working on standards paper standards also because data records, straight records cannot be lived alone today. We are coming from paper world and it will always take time. The standards, I feel that I guess that will be used for both on chain or off chain invoices or other documents on chain documents and new FinTechs are coming. I believe that after winter. Thank you. I hope I Write answers to your question. I'm not just this because I know it's expensive to store those documents on chain so drives up the cost of using DLT technology then so I was wondering what's in the middle there. The cloud is really very big problem in Turkey regulatory bodies. Not like third countries class not hosting. Yes, not only Turkey all of the countries are very careful on this issue. That's also a huge issue with China. Anyone doing trade with China. So let me look like you had a question. Yes, please. Thank you. Thank you. I have a question regarding the e bill of reading it's a title of property. It's a very, very sensitive document and then how for the banks how they could they will be able to authenticate. They receive it under a letter of credit as you have mentioned that there may be a number of platforms and the banks may need to be part of the platform to be able to authenticate such a document, which is important also when it has to be submitted to the issuing bank or whatever under a documented credit. And I have also a question regarding the ML ETR. When is it expected to be applied to be to be adopted in Turkey. And same a question for Alicia in the states. adoption process because it's the legislative and it's the base. It's the adoption of the ML ETR to push. Watch out for what you give us feedback Alicia. Certainly yes. Alicia, New York. I'm in New York. 11 states you are very good in military adopting military. I didn't know that. Except as far as I remember. Really, I'll have to look into that because right now I don't know. I was not familiar with military until you had mentioned it during our emails so I had to look it up to learn more. In terms of national legislation in this country. It's very slow incoming there is a congressional workforce around blockchain and digitization. You know, a few years ago I was hearing from them regularly recently I'm not hearing as much. So I unfortunately don't have a good answer for you on that. I'm sorry. The thing I can add on that is, let's make sure I don't get in trouble here. I do help the Federal Reserve, Federal Reserve bank in the US on some technology items and the Federal Reserve is very big in the United States about going to a digital dollar and essentially getting rid of money cash. And you can see some of the things that come along the lines from recent legislation on getting rid of cash in the US essentially they're going to start charging people use cash. What's happened with that is the Federal Reserve is not part of the US government is a private entity. The US government has sued the Federal Reserve twice to stop some as digitization because they thought it was too fast and so things have slowed down the US around digitization because of this tampering down idea of using a digital dollar is our main currency between all transactions in charging 5% roughly you to give somebody money. So there's had a deadening effect across digitization in the US on many areas because of that lawsuit there's actually two lawsuits. We can't tell which ones they are but that's what's going on right now and it's not much in the media but between the Federal Reserve who controls our currency and the government is separate. Really good point. Thank you, Jeff. That's stopping stuff a lot. I want to be mindful of time I know Meryl you still want to answer Salim's question and then we have one more question from Mellah. So let's Meryl why don't you answer Salim's question and then we'll go to Mellah. Salim's first question regarding we should maybe a few words say Salim. The authentication of the EBL by how the banks would be able to authenticate these documents that they would be transmitted to them. I really live this problem when I was working for Contour. Contour has a flow for digitization of the letter of credit and bill of lending is the main part of this product as you know. It was really big problem and without onboarding a bill of lending platform it is not possible and at the end of the day we use papers, digital assigned or PDF papers which are uploaded by the exporters and we need also approval of the platform and since we can't enable this the scalability is not enabled. This is really big problem of the fintechs in this area. I saw this really maybe Ahan can say a few words in this issue but we are not hearing you. You are mute Ahan. By approaching the customs you need to print out, you need to stamp and you have to sign it and present it to the customs. Don't forget the rest of the work. Let me give you the words to Millie. Millie has a problem, has a question. Millie it's your turn. I didn't know the time restriction but I just wanted to make a small remark on I'm not sure if we talked about a military reduction in the US or like any kind of legislative project. I don't know if the group talked about the UCC article 12 which is in the new UCC and which is on electronic transferable records. I don't know if this article captures documents of titles. I have to check that but I'm working on the payment side and I know that UCC article 12 definitely allows for electronic payment and tangibles which can work just like a negotiable influence which are of the use and trade. So maybe that's like an interesting topic also for the group. Thank you. If you have more suggestions or if you want to come and lead a conversation on that in a later meeting that would be great so we have regularly meetings every other Thursday at this time. So, yeah, please do let us know if you want to get involved on that that would be really helpful. Thank you. I want to be mindful it's just after 1pm New York time. So it's so we've reached the hour I want to be mindful of Merrill's time. So I had one more question. No, I just asked yeah. No, no, it has been cut in my chat. Merrill, I mean when does she expect this low be adopted by the Turkish parliament and LTR because it's not something which is easy. And what I heard some days ago from the International Chamber of Commerce in Paris, that up to today, we have only eight countries in the world, which have adopted this law. And they expect that in two years time 100 countries should adopt it. What's the present status in Turkey? The present state is Turkey's power but it's all the economic impact. 7G20 have been preparing very much keenly on military and our trade corridors necessitate to adopting military. I cannot say that we shouldn't do this change for our sake of international trade volume. We need to change a lot of operational processes. But we need a lot of people in local sites. There are too many universities, justice ministry, changing commercial law, these are the regulatory control mechanisms also another problem. One, I don't know about two or three years I'm expecting. It is my personal view. Merrill, if you run for parliament, you get in the Turkish parliament and you can help push this along. Accelerate the process. I can't vote. Well, we can't vote there, but yeah, we can support you. I will vote for you. We should go together or you should also come. Yeah, certainly. Great. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's a little bit after the hour. So again, I just want to thank you so much for Merrill for coming and sharing your research and sharing what you're doing. I know I've learned a lot. I think everyone else has as well. Ayhan, thank you for facilitating this, for making the introduction. It's my pleasure and I'm so much pleased to see the Merrill here in our community and presenting her views with us. These are so much valuable. I believe in that. And as the always Andrea said, it's the evolution time, not the revolution. And my motto is buy by paper at the end. Remember data, not paper. This is the man. I like buy by paper.