 back to think tech. I'm Jay Fidel. This community matters, but it's really about energy. It's about energy with Veronica Rocha, who I know for many years because she has been in the energy field and now she's running a consultant think tank firm on energy and public policy, which is very important. Welcome to the show Veronica. Nice to have you here. Thank you, Jay. I appreciate the opportunity to be here. So, you know, I'm very curious about the transition. You learned a lot about energy. You were a star in the energy world. Then you became a consultant. Is that because the money's better? No, there is a good question. The reason I became a consultant was because I was quite inspired by the UN's IPCC Update Report in 2018. And unfortunately, it really brought to my attention the situation of climate change and how bad things really are. And it inspired me to not only continue my work in climate change mitigation, helping to advance clean energy, like renewable energy and electricity, but also to pursue a parallel path in climate change adaptation. And so in 2019, I started my own consulting practice called Essentially to have the opportunity to sit at the intersection of private sector and the public sector and work on both climate change mitigation and adaptation. Yeah, well, that's very important in our time. You know, I was going to go through this before the show, before our discussion started, but I think I'd like to just give you my thoughts on that now. So for four years with Trump, I mean, he realized the dream of right-wing Republicans who don't want to do climate change at all. And the first thing he did is pulled us out of the Paris Accord. And then he ran against the environment in every possible way that he possibly could. And in that period, although there were many organizations in the country, in the world that wanted to do climate change, deal with climate change, it wasn't the same thing if the president of the United States doesn't want to do it. It tends to fragment the effort. This is very destructive, actually, to the effort. Now, Joe Biden is here. Joe Biden believes in dealing with climate change. It's a reality for him. He's going to do it. He's going to select the people who will do it. And we're going to be back on track. You know, he said he would join the Paris Accord on day one, January 20th. And I'm sure he'll do a lot more than that. He'll run into trouble, though, from people who oppose dealing with climate change during the four years of the Trump administration. So it's not going to be without some challenges. And I would like to talk to you about, you know, the connection that you have found that you have embraced in, you know, essential leap, was it? Because, you know, that's an important concept. We have to make a leap now. And I really like to know you're thinking about that. I like to know how you feel about getting back into it. Full throttle. What do we do? What does he do? What do you and I do? How do we make this happen? How do we save the world from, you know, another existential threat of great concern to all of us? Maybe we forgot about it. But it will remind us. It is reminding us every day in some way or another. So what is your thinking about that? How important is this? And how important is Joe Biden? Well, certainly I'm a big fan of Joe Biden. And I am thrilled that he is now at the helm of our country. You are asking some very big questions, Jay. I do believe that it is important for our country to have leadership that believes that addressing climate change is a top priority. And also with regards to the parents accord, I'm very happy that Joe Biden has chosen to go back, put the US back into that initiative. I think it's very important. I give Hawaii a lot of credit for never stopping courts, even with an administration that was opposing climate action. And, you know, Hawaii more than ever really stepped up its game, not only with being fully behind 100% renewable energy goal, but also stepping up and saying we are going to continue to follow the goals and the principles of the Paris Accord. At the state level, we have the Hawaii Climate Change Mitigation Adaptation Commission that has been set up and is actively working on both climate change mitigation and adaptation for the county level. The state and county of Honolulu of course has its own climate commission and climate initiative. I understand several other of the neighboring counties are standing up or have stood up similar initiatives. So again, I feel Hawaii has done a tremendous job at continuing its efforts on climate change action. And I'm only excited, more excited to see what we can accomplish with the new federal administration. Well, yeah. Now you did a program on November 18th that you're not, it was a kind of a webinar, and it was about this subject. Can you talk about that? Sure, happy to. So the webinar on November 18th was hosted by my client, Pictor. And I have helped Pictor establish a new pro climate adaptation collective. So climate, of course, refers to climate change adaptation specifically refers to the adaptation side of climate change as opposed to clean energy or clean transportation, which is more of the climate mitigation side of things. And then collective refers really to the collection of challenges, but also opportunities related to working on climate adaptation efforts. Now the November 18th webinar event had to do with the city and county of Honolulu's sea level rise design guidelines. Actually, you're calling it design principles. And these are basically initial design principles on how, on the way that the city and county of Honolulu is looking to adapt to sea level rise and the transit oriented development corridor. And it also provides information and ideas for the private sector to also implement. So it was a really good discussion. We had representatives from the city and county of Honolulu as well as their consultant from SSFM. And we also had a presentation from the city and county of Honolulu on their climate, new climate adaptation effort in which they are seeking community input on it. So it was a really robust discussion. There were about 200 people that signed up and 111 people that participated live. So this tells me that there's quite a bit of interest in the topic and quite a bit of opportunities in the field as well. That's a moment, isn't it? It's been bottled up for four years. People have, I don't know, they haven't focused on it. And now is the time to take all that bottled up energy, if I can use the word energy, and go somewhere with it. But I see challenges here. I see some people, it got bottled up and they don't want to open the bottle anymore. They figure we got along for four years without it. So let's just leave it. And then there are people, well, there's a legislature in the city council that have no money. We're in a dire financial predicament now at both levels with huge deficits. And maybe you don't agree, but I'd like to propose the basic rule is if you want to do climate change mitigation adaptation, you need money. Without money, it's very hard to do it. So that's a real challenge, isn't it? It's a challenge for the government in Hawaii and certainly it's going to be a challenge for Joe Biden too, isn't it? Yes. And I would say that it's a challenge that has existed even before COVID-19. So I can tell you that, for example, one of the ways that climate activists have been looking to find some of these efforts is to put forth lawsuits in Manusutin County, Honolulu is part of this against fossil fuel companies that created the carbon emissions in the first place. So that's one ongoing dispute. We'll see what happens with that, but that could be a source of funding. You know, you'll write the state and the counties are in a very challenging situation because of lost revenues due to COVID-19. I believe that there is strong hope that there is going to be another round of CARES Act funding in the new year and that some of that funding under a new administration is going to be channeled towards both climate change mitigation and adaptation efforts. So we'll see what happens with that. Certainly there's a lot of other creative financing, public partnerships, and other innovative ways that they need to come forth in order to pay for mitigation and adaptation efforts, not only in Hawaii and in the U.S., but worldwide. Well, how emergent is this? A short story, I was having dinner with some friends. This is at a time when we could do that in a restaurant one day, and they told me they had just come out of the Al Gore movie, Inconvenient Truth, and they described the movie to me. And I stood up in the middle of the dinner. I was so troubled by what they were telling me that I skipped dessert. Imagine, I skipped dessert and I went straight to the movie theater. It was the varsity movie house. So I could see this movie. I had to see this movie because I saw this as an existential threat in which there was no time to waste. And yet, Veronica, we have done exactly that. We have wasted decades even knowing just how dangerous this is. And we see it happening all the time. And I don't know. I mean, a storm comes, another storm comes, a third and fourth storm come, and nobody seems to connect it. I mean, maybe you and me, we connect it. But it's a function of climate change. And it's getting worse. How much time do we have? Just how critical is this? How emergent is the situation? I mean, the short answer is we can't wait to address it. Even if we were to, you know, talking about like worldwide, bring, you know, greenhouse gas emissions that are under-progenic, in other words, caused by man to zero tomorrow. We would still be dealing with the impacts of climate change for at least 100 years given how much carbon is already in the atmosphere. So, I've been advocating for this parallel path of climate change mitigation and adaptation. If you look at the UN's IPCC 2018 update report, which I referenced at the beginning of this conversation, it basically says we cannot wait. You know, the impacts are here. And if we do nothing about it, if we go over 1.5 degrees Celsius, which if you look at the data, it looks like we are on a path to overshoot that, the consequences are going to be dire, not only for human existence, but for every type of biological existence. So, what I tell my friends and people when I talk about this is the planet is going to be fine. The folks that are going to be suffering are going to be humans, right? So, it's really like your choice on how we proceed with this. I see climate change as really the most critical issue of humankind today. Yeah, and yet there are people who would oppose wind turbines. There are people who oppose all kinds of projects that are in aid of our attempt to deal with climate change. And we don't have unanimity in the community about it. Some people just stand in the way, and so it slows us down. And then government, let me add that government, COVID is a test of government. It's a test of our community. It's a test of our system, if you will. And so is climate change in the same way. It's asking, can you deal with this? Can you get your act together? Can you take affirmative steps and actually deal? Because if you don't, as you said, Veronica, we're going to pay a terrible price. So, my question to you is, what exactly are the priorities? I would like to make you queen for a day. I would like you to take all your knowledge and your think tank consultation recommendations to government, to industry, to the public. What is first? What is the top priority we should all focus on right now to put our left foot forward and start really dealing with this now? Yeah, that's a really good question. And I wish I had a magic wand to make it come to fruition. And it's not an easy answer, Jay. There's many things that need to happen in parallel. Hawaii is a very good example of a state that set a goal of 100% renewable energy way before other states in the US did that, before California did that, in fact. And so what I would like to see is for that 100% renewable energy policy to not be a state mandate, but instead to be a nationwide mandate and ideally a global mandate. So that would be one thing that I would propose. I'm happy that the United States is reentering the Paris Accord. I would say that the Paris Accord is not going far enough. We need to definitely stay under 1.5 degrees C, 2 degrees C as scientists are pointing out is not acceptable, and the timeframe needs to be accelerated as well. So that's another major initiative that needs to happen. Transportation, I'm talking about not only ground transportation, but also air and marine, all of that needs to be overhauled. In Hawaii, we have seen quite a bit of an uptick in electric vehicles. Now we're seeing electric buses, but there's a lot more to be had in that department as well. So an overhaul of the transportation sector. And then that's all with regards to mitigation. But let's talk about climate adaptation, helping our communities adapt to the impacts of climate change. I see the city and county of Honolulu making significant strides in that effort, developing what is going to be a climate adaptation strategy. I don't understand why we don't have a statewide mandate to do the same. Sea level rise is going to be affecting all of the counties in Hawaii. Would love to see that happen. To your point about financing, this is going to require tremendous capital, not only in the climate mitigation, but also in the climate adaptation space. So I think Hawaii as a policy needs to figure out the state of Hawaii needs to figure out how it is going to pay. Certainly bringing in the private sector is part of the solution, but it's not the full solution. So should we be looking at some sort of like bonds or, I don't know, another tariff? I think all of that needs to be explored. So this was just some ideas. There's definitely a lot more out there, but hopefully that at least gets the conversation going. Yeah, unfortunately, the conversation among people who are not in high public office is not as effective if the guy in public office, high public office, does not join in it and ask people to follow him on it. So now we have Biden, hopefully, knock wood. I think we do. Today the GSA agreed to further transition, and that was good. I was going to write Emily Murphy such a letter about that, but now I don't have to send my letter. In any event, what we have now is Biden. And Biden has a little trouble under the blanket. He's got the green deal, the new green deal people, and they want something out of the Democratic Party leadership. And other people are more conservative. And of course, the Republicans are very conservative. And if Mitch McConnell has his way in the Senate, they'll block everything he tries. But putting all that aside, your recommendation to Joe Biden, what is it? Should he do the new green deal? Should he stand up there and make this his top priority? I mean, after COVID, of course. Should he take dramatic steps? Should he be a world leader? The title of this show is about leadership on climate change. How does America get to be the leader we want it to be? You and me, anyway. How does it get to establish a new and effective affirmative leadership to make everyone follow along? What should Joe Biden? That's a good question. So one of the things that Joe Biden talked about during one of the debates was how he was the leader that could bring the nations to the table. And to not only have the United States re-enter the Paris Accord, but to go above and beyond in terms of climate action and making it a priority. I believe an initiative at that scale is what is required to truly make progress on climate change. And it has to include China and it has to include India. Otherwise, we're just not going to be successful. And that means foreign policy where you get along with people and you can collaborate with them and get together and do collective things. So he's got his hands full for sure, but I think one thing is he recognizes that he's got to do something if we're going to have some progress on this. The U.S. has been AWOL. And my favorite statement after the election when it appeared that Biden had won was by the mayor of Paris. And what she said in Paris is a symbolic city on this. What she said was, welcome back, America. We've been gone. We've been AWOL. It's time for us to take leadership again. So on that point, and making that the central thread of what you are doing, what are you going to do for the essential leap? Tell me how you got that name and tell me what that name is going to take you and what's it going to do? What are you going to do under that name going forward? Thank you, Jay. I appreciate that opportunity to talk about essential leap. The reason I called my company essential leap is that we will need to take these tremendous transformative steps or leaps that are essential, that are fundamental, so that we can transform our energy systems and also transform the way that we look at our community so that we can be adaptable and resilient to climate change. The types of projects that I'm currently involved in and that I'm excited to participate will do exactly that. So one example is the Climate Adaptation Collective Initiative that I started through my client picture. It seeks to bring really everybody to the table to have meaningful conversations, but also increase capacity and understanding of the challenges and opportunities related to climate change adaptation. It started the initiative. It was very much focused on a local practitioner's type of initiative. And what we found very quickly is that people from all over the world were calling in and wanting to participate. So we have, for example, I won't name specific entities, but I'll just say it's an international entity that have reached out and are interested in figuring out how we can partner in particular because this entity is also an island community. So I think it really opens up the doors for collaboration, transformation in terms of how we adapt to climate change on a system type basis. So I'm excited for that. In general, I'm very excited to support initiatives that will help advance the state's transformation and in the not only electricity sector with energy, but also in transforming our transportation systems so that they are electrified and they are served to do saving of energy resources. Well, part of this is Hawaii. The leadership you're talking about, at least in part, is our leadership. And for at least 10 or 15 years, maybe closer to 10, Hawaii was seen as a leader. It had the resources. It had the goals. It had a lot of people and organizations that were affirmatively advocating for clean energy. And I think the world saw that. And the world was, for a time anyway, beating a path to our door and seeing us as a leader in clean energy and therefore by connection, climate change. However, I'm not sure that that energy is the same as it was using the term in a different way. I'm not sure that we are as much in the mindset of a leader as we used to be. And I'm not sure that the world sees us as the way it used to see us as a leader in energy. I mean, certainly people think that Hawaii has the resources and we know how to do it, but are we a leader in doing it? And so my question to you is, A, are we still the leader we thought they thought we were? And B, if not, or even if that is the case, what do we do to become the undisputed leader or an undisputed leader in dealing with climate change in developing clean energy programs? Sure. So my take is that Hawaii is still very much a leader in clean energy. And for me, this is evidence to the conversations that I have with people day in and day out, entities reaching out wanting to know, these are entities from abroad wanting to know how Hawaii has been able to put forth such aggressive policies. In 10 years, Hawaii has gone from having not a very aggressive policy on renewable energy to having a 100% renewable energy policy goal and interim goals that are being met. So I feel that still puts us at the helm in terms of leadership. That said, I don't think it's enough to be a leader in clean energy. I think that this is an opportunity for Hawaii. If we are going to be leaders in climate change, we really need to further step up and pursue this statewide parallel path of climate change mitigation, clean energy, but also in adaptation. And the state has made good progress in that area by standing up the Hawaii, the state of Hawaii climate change mitigation and adaptation commission and the city and county of Kwanilulu has stood up a similar initiative. But we really need to do this on in terms of having that as I was mentioning to you earlier at each county and ideally led more fully by the state. So I think that there's some opportunities on the adaptation space and with the clean energy space, it's still an evolving space and opportunities in particular in the transportation sector. You know, COVID makes us think about our systems. It makes us, you know, more introspective, more thoughtful. Maybe we shed some of the bureaucracy. We shed some of the, you know, the thinking that doesn't get us anywhere. And we focus, we focus on our goals, we focus on how to get there. And we renew our commitment to various priorities. And it seems to me, you know, that the same kind of analysis applies to COVID. Obviously, that's the most immediate threat to climate change, which is certainly an existential threat, and to energy, which is a, you know, a scientific and societal threat. You know, the threat of not making any progress, that threat. And it seems to me we're in a time where we should be considering new ways of doing things for all of that. I'm reminded of Singapore. Singapore seems to be very smart. They don't make too many mistakes. Their government is attentive to the wishes of the community, but also has a plan and it executes the plan. And it is over the years has been able to do remarkable things to develop a great world city, a great world nation state out of a swamp. And so I think that maybe it's time for us to think along similar lines. We can't wait. We've got to use all of the talent, all of the science, all of the analysis that we possibly can. We can't take no for an answer. And I think we should change. We will need to change our way of doing business on all of those things on COVID, on climate change, and on energy as related to climate change. What do you think? I completely agree. So one of the things that I was thinking you were going to also mention is that with COVID-19, scientists, people saw it coming. I mean, if you just surf the web, there's plenty of examples of, you know, scientists, doctors, philanthropists, all predicting that we were going to have a major pandemic, you know, soon in the next one-hour decade or soon, right? So it was definitely something that was seeing us coming. Did we prepare adequately? Of course we did. Did we have an adequate response? At least at the beginning we did it. Do we have a national response? No, we don't. It's the same thing that we are experiencing with climate change. And my hope, my hope is that leadership, not only at the local level or even at the state or in my national level, but really at the world, global level, are just going to come together and figure out a much better plan that is coordinated for climate change. And it has to include this parallel path of how do we reduce greenhouse gases and at the same time, how do we prepare for the impacts of climate change which are here today and are going to be seen onto the future? You know, a few weeks ago Amazon put the movie of the play Hamilton, you know, on its site and you can watch that now through the Amazon, you know, prime website. And there's a lot of lessons in that play. One of them is why was Hamilton so successful? He came from a very meager background in Caribbean because he knew how to read and write and he wrote and he took positions on political issues and he articulated them in those days in the press. And I think one of the lessons of Hamilton is if you want to have an effect on things, you've got to keep on expressing yourself in public. You've got to keep on writing. You've got to keep on engaging people. And maybe that's the secret here to deal with the energy and the climate change and for that matter COVID. The only thing is that writing is not the exclusive way to express yourself. These days you can express yourself right here on ThinkTech. And that goes a certain distance too. So, Veronica, I want you to come back. I'd like to have other discussions. I want to drill down. I want to, you know, follow the story with you. I hope that's okay. Thank you, Jay. Appreciate the opportunity. Thanks so much, Aloha and stay safe.