 Welcome to the drum history podcast. I'm your host Bart van der Zee and today I am joined by Norbert Seymon Norbert Welcome to the show glad to be here. Thank you. I don't think many people know about the history of Minol like me personally I've done so much research on all these different companies and it's like it's funny because I thought Minol like came out in the 80s or the 90s or something because I just didn't know and there's you know some of the other symbol companies are hundreds of years old and you just kind of assume that that You don't know so but but it goes back to 1951, right? That's right. The company was founded in 1951 Yes, that's great per usual on the show. Why don't we just hop right in and and well first off What is your role with Minol? Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and then we'll go back and hear the whole story of Minol Yes, my role at Minol is I am the international artist relations manager and event manager. Cool I deal with all our artists international artists. I have a colleague who handles artist relations for USA and Canada his name is Chris Brewer He's working out of Minol Nashville and I handle all the other artists from the other parts of the world. I Also do all our events Minol drum fest Nam show music messa pay-sake all that all those events is usually what I plan and organize That's great. I've been with the company since 30 years since 1990 Wow Obviously, I've done other jobs at Minol prior to what I do now, but what I do now I have been doing for About 15 or more longer than that 22 years. I started in 1998 with artist relations Yes, wow, you're you're a Minol guy through and through 30 years. Yeah, it's a long time. Yeah You know You know this obviously but but Minol is It's I'm sure it's been like this for a while, but Minol is huge right now. I mean you guys to me are You're the cool symbol brand and I say that always on the show. I'm unbiased and I try and hit I love every brand, but it just seems like you guys have Done a great job of like guys like Mike Johnston who's been on the show Just I mean you have really got on the wave of the very clean Kind of film yourself at home, but do a really high quality job And there's a lot everyone uses different brands, but I see a lot of Minol you guys are out there Thanks a lot. Yeah, we are working hard to reach the point where we are now and I'm I'm always glad to hear that obviously things have worked out for us in the way they work out now and This is the perception people have of Minol right now because Yeah, I mean it's not that we Really plan to be the cool new brand. It's somehow developed into that Yeah You know most of the people here who are in in the in the in the top management positions We're all drummers musicians and basically We just try to build what What what we love to see for ourselves as drummers, you know, we look at it from a drummer's perspective Whatever would whatever we do whether it is r&d or a and r or marketing in general all our videos Um, we're drummers and we produce symbols and content for other drummers so that in a way makes it easy Or easier for us. Sure to To get to that point where we are now Yeah, yeah, and you guys and maybe we'll talk about it further on down the line, but you have a lot of brands like um, like I know symbols aren't really the only Thing if not, they're not the biggest thing that you guys do like even even down to the what is it? Nino um percussion I teach a five-year-old right now. Uh, who's just a buddy A guy I do work for his his grandson And I was playing a shaker the other day with him because he's five and you got to keep him interested And I look and it's like oh my god, this is nino and I look around and there's It's it's just so much percussion that you guys, um There's a lot of categories under your there's a lot of categories. Yes, and besides being a manufacturer, we are also a wholesaling company like we Distribute a lot of brands in the drum industry and also in the guitar industry Yeah, we we import from other countries like we are the tama distributor. We're the ibanez distributor for germany and other european countries, so And then we have our own brands Like you already mentioned the percussion minor percussion nino percussion sonic energy, which is like a Therapeutical field of like singing bowls and gongs and tuning forks that world where we are in And then we have an own guitar brand, which is called ortega guitars. It's only acoustic guitars But it's our own brand and we are the brand holder and the manufacturer and then of course There is the cymbal world, which is a pretty huge part of of our portfolio. Yeah, but it started with cymbals like the first Thing we did in 1951 Was cymbals roland minel when he founded the company in 1951 That was the first thing he was doing And now how did he learn let's let's jump in but how did so roland Minel, how did he you don't and i've talked about this with other like paul francis and other cymbal guys of like You don't just say, you know what? Okay. I'm done working at this bakery. I'm gonna go make cymbals like Let's give us his background and then let's just let's just hop right in his background is A little different. He was born in 1929 in a small city called silberbach, which is in germany, but now it's part of jack republic 1929 so by the time world war two was over In 1945 he was 16 years old Okay, so when he was 16 years world war two was over He finished his school and he Did a training as a music musical instrument maker Like this is the education the job that he actually learned. Wow in this area where he grew up after that A lot of people after world war two They got displaced to other parts in germany And so did roland, too. He got displaced to a small town Very near where we are here now near woodsburg and So there he lived and there he did a job training as a salesman in a local company That had nothing to do with musical instruments. It was just a local company and he did a salesman training he was always traveling back and forth between The area he originally came from silberbach and where he was displaced to in near woodsburg and he always He brought like a accordion and then he brought back some potatoes So after world war two everything was Really rough Yeah, almost and people had to just survive they had to survive somehow and that's How he did how he did it he he traded with musical instruments and groceries and all kinds of stuff Then he met his wife She was living here in the city of neustadt eisch. This was until a couple of years ago This is where we were based neustadt under eisch. So he met his wife and they got married and simply out of Because he he saw a demand for symbols With his trades and businesses. He was doing selling and buying musical instruments. He saw a demand for symbols. Hey Symbols would be nice to have Yeah, so the first symbols he traded were actually Symbols that he bought from somewhere, but those weren't professional symbols at all. Those were like Children symbols toy symbols. Sure. So he bought those and sold those But those became more and more expensive and it got to a point where he said, okay It's probably better if I start to If I try to start to produce them by myself and that's how he did it. It was all trial and error his wife and he he they just Went into the basement and they were cutting Blanks round, you know, they drilled the hole by hand. They started to press the symbol all by hand And how that was very hard labor his wife and he had to do for like all like we're now 52 53 And until the end of the 50s, this is what they did Roland's son Reinhold He was born in 1952 so as a as a Children as a baby he he grew into this environment of hard labor and the parents producing symbols This continued until The 50s were over early 60s But in the 50s already he started to export Symbols mainly within europe first also to the usa already But the main business was done domestically in germany But also within europe so that's How it started and Reinhold his son he grew into the company and from there It just became bigger and bigger in the 60s the wholesale idea of importing Instruments from other manufacturers and selling them in germany became more popular so i'm not sure if you know the hoshino company from japan hoshino is tama and iberness yeah so in 1963 we became hoshino's first international customer outside of asia And to this day we are tama and iberness distributor We were the first tama iberness distributor outside of asia in 1963 At that time also in 1963 We participated in the first frankfurt music messa that Kept running every year every year until a couple years ago, but in 1963 we were already there Exhibiting with our own products symbols at that time and also the instruments that we imported man, I think the So i've done very early on 50 episodes ago I did something on the history of the the made in japan the stencil drums and it's like the history and multiple episodes i've done kind of pieces together where there was one where um Someone from slingerland who his dad worked there jim moritz would say Oh, yeah, my dad invited people in from japan and gave them pictures and they they took pictures of the slingerland factory and went back And then we're using that technology. So I think it's interesting to know now that um Like the distribution of star drums, which became tama, which was the The the stencil drums where they were copying the you know the slingerlands and the gretches and the i guess Leedy would be an inspiration as well, but Where it was distributed from and where did it come from and and and you guys were in on that I mean, so you helped get these because star. I mean, oh my gosh, they're I love them. I have a set of uh, Apollo drums Here in my house the because you can get these stencil drums for the made in japan drums for very affordable affordably. So Um, it's cool to know you guys were the ones spreading them around what were they did did minnow You probably said this but did they distribute them just around europe? Or did you help get them over to america and no we distributed them only in germany in germany Just in germany. Yes. Got it. Hoshino has different Distributors in all european countries Sure And we at that time we were only for germany now We distribute tama also in some other european countries like poland jack republic, hongary Got it. But that's about it. Yes. It has only been limited to germany The symbols that we were making in the 60s those were lines like People probably never heard those names. They were called roman mark 70 or roman mark 74 Those were the lines we made in the 60s. Those were not professionally sounding symbols. Okay, uh, those were made for entry and mid range drummers also price wise they were priced entry level or mid range Up until mid 80s Is when we produced all these lines for this price range there were lines like king beat or streamer laser meteor all those A series some people may remember some not but those were the symbols at that time. They were not professionally sounding symbols Our focus was at that time was not on the symbol manufacturing because We were working very hard to establishing our wholesale business And also in the 70s We started to make percussion And then that was another huge focus were a lot of time most of the time and energy went into creating and establishing our percussion brands and the symbols There were I wouldn't say left behind but we were not putting enough focus on the symbols Other than making entry and mid-range symbols Gotcha that switched like in the 80s We uh We decided to put much more focus In producing and developing first of all developing professional symbols and then in the 80s we We bought machinery we bought our first hydraulic hammering robot And we had to learn how to operate That machine and how to tell this machine how to hammer a symbol, you know, we had no We had nobody to teach us, you know, yeah this technology Was almost not existent at least not in germany. We we all had to learn it by ourselves trial and error Hmm and this was in the mid 80s And the first series that we called like a professional sounding line was a series called profile Our profile range, maybe some of you listeners will remember that this was um made I think in 1984 as we launched that line in 1984 and then 1985 came A series called raker Which I'm sure more people remember Some people even they still play the raker symbols some people yeah, I've heard of that They contact us and they want us to reintroduce raker line because they they love the line so much At that time we also had our first two endorsing artists Who played raker and profile symbols one? Was a us drummer american drummer named bill berry He was the drummer in r.e.m. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was playing minor exclusively at that time and the second drummer was German guy named stefan kaufmann who was playing in except which was a heavy rock band. Yeah pretty popular pretty Definitely huge huge band from germany stefan kaufmann. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, I've seen that I've seen that the the catalogs and I was trying to do some research And I think in the 80s is when you actually start to see like You know you guys are appearing and being being you know, oh real not that you weren't real before you were being like a this is a Professional symbol brand obviously We were taking things more serious at that time because like I said our wholesale department within minel was established and was working and running and we were making money from it So we had time to focus on symbols and same for percussion. I mean We worked on both Simultaneously on symbols and percussion. We always had different teams To work on symbols and to work on percussion and so simultaneously we were pushing both Further up symbols. Yeah percussion. Yes. Yeah, that's a it's it's like an age old story of Drum brands getting into distribution like I mean back to the 20s in the 30s That is a very common thing to Even with symbols you look at old like you'll look at old Gretch catalogs or these companies and they have Zen or I forget some of the other ones these symbol brands that aren't you know, they're not making but they just they're they're Distribute them and we made them. You know we there used to be a brand called camber symbols Yes, I have some actually I have some sitting in a pile Really? Wow. Not at one point. They were also made by us. Yes. We made this business is called oam business Mm-hmm, and we were heavily into oam business making symbols for all kinds of other brands Just slap another logo on it, right? We are just stamping any kind of logo, you know, whatever you you buy 500 piece and we put any logo on you like that kind of a business. It was a good business for us it kept the machines running kept the people the staff busy and At that time it was good business and important business for us, but Since many many years we have stopped doing oam symbols. Sure some other milestones. Maybe when we talk about the 60s Yeah, like in 1964 we hired our first employee Like remember the company was started in 1951 and only in 1964 we hired our first employee His name was gustav strobel and he was working with the company until The late or the early 2000s Man in 1965 we were the first Symbol maker to pack the symbols into poly bags Nobody has Done that before now. What does that mean? I don't I don't think I know what that what is a poly bag a plastic bag Oh, okay, like each symbol comes in a plastic bag. Okay. Yeah, which is now like you get your symbol And it's in a little bag and it exactly and we were the first one from all symbol brands to To do this was in 1965 Oh, also um Couple years later. We were the first company to introduce Pre-packs like in 1974. We offered the first pre-packs like pre-configured Symbol sets. Yeah, right to our knowledge to our knowledge. Nobody has done that before us So these were all things we did In the 70s and then 80s we covered already Yeah, and before I forget the the it just it just hits me in my in my you know going back to the Japanese thing about how you guys would you know, white label it where you would print things different brands on it That is in essence and you're working at that point with star drums. That is in essence How all of that made in japan stencil drum stuff worked where There are so many that have different, um Brand names like you come across and it's basically the same thing where they're distributed by You know hoshino it would be like the star the world's supreme quality all that stuff You can tell where they're from but it's just that's very common And it seems like a big thing in in the 60s where you'd you'd you'd get that so that's uh That's just fine the good good parallel there. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it I think it was a common thing in the music in the street worldwide Sure probably still is I mean to some degree. I'm to some degree. Yes. I mean when we talk about symbols There are so many brands now and There are only a few manufacturers and they all All these symbols come from there. They're like Chinese there are a lot of chinese manufacturers and there are a lot of turkish manufacturers Who produce symbols for almost all of those brands nowadays? Yeah and you just so while we're Going through the 60s 70s 80s. I just want to like For there's a lot of listeners around the world, but for me as an american guy I've actually been to germany I've been to I think I was even I was at a train station in frankfurt And I don't think I actually went out beyond that because it was just on passing through but You I mean there's just a connotation and I'm sure it's a good one and it's it's it's well deserved of everything being very efficient being very clean being very well made That has to transfer over into The symbol making and the percussion making so they're competing with like when you think of symbols Like if you just ask someone they think of symbols They probably go oh turkey right even though it dates back to china and it goes back very far But there's symbols made in turkey. There's symbols made in italy obviously like you fit their symbols made in china all over There's symbols. I mean zillian was made in america sabian in canada what makes A special what makes german symbols german symbols if that makes sense like i'm sure it's changed over the years but um But was it always like a very efficient clean process like you guys are kind of known for going back to the beginning That's what I would describe it. Yes, okay. I would describe it. I don't think there is a typical german sound Symbols maybe in symphonic symbols, but not in jazz rock styles, okay um But I am I think there is a german way of engineering and of organizing a Factory and I think we're pretty good at that. We're pretty good at that. Yes everything in our I mean we have a we have a factory in turkey That is very traditional hand labor type factory still very modern compared to turkish style factories, but sure it's still a very traditional place Then we have our factory here in germany. That is Yeah, you know you walk in there you walk in there and you You almost don't notice that this is a Symbol factory could also be a car factory or computer factory. That's how everything is organized and the machinery and How clean everything at least we try how clean everything is and yeah, maybe organize things Yes, that's funny. There's there's there's worse stereotypes to have then you're very clean and efficient You know I mean We are A uh, how you call it. We're not a cheap labor country. We're we're manufacturing or that the The staff is paid poorly Um, it's not like that at all. It's just the opposite people here. They earn good money Everything here is like as far as like the environmental aspect and everything all of that is on the highest level and all of that is Expensive it costs money rightfully though But that also means you have to be very effective and efficient in the product. Otherwise your product is becoming way too expensive you have to be able to Produce it in the most efficient way in order to keep the costs down In order to be competitive price wise So if you if you have a factory in some third world Manufacturing country where none of this is really relevant of course you you You can be less effective, but still maintain a competitive price point Mm-hmm. So that's the difference sure, but you're disregarding people's safety and things might not be as consistent All of those standards. Yes that we obviously have to have here Okay, now is there a and we'll jump back into the history here, but is there a specific thing? I guess you said there's not like a Typical characteristic so that they're hammered symbols. It's not like in Italy where they they spin them I forget the actual term they use or in Um, you know in Switzerland, they're very you know, there's a certain sound to it. Is there is it Is there a specific technique that you guys use like the minor? Blah blah blah whatever technique or is it just a nice clean beautiful way to make symbols that's in traditional fashion, you know I don't think there is anything special. It's not in a german way of making symbol Um, we hammer symbols not by hand at least not in Germany not by hand we Is there's a robot hammering the symbols or we? Press the symbol into shape That are the two things see how you can The two possibilities how you can make a symbol you can hammer it or you can press it into shape and we do both here and the technology behind it It is Almost always the same. I'm sure there are small differences. Yeah, of course that the the the basic method Is more or less always the same Okay, yeah, no matter in which factory you go Yeah, okay, but they sound great and they're obviously every symbol has its own characteristic and uh and and and people love them and and I think I think part of a symbol company is is the the The endorsers and the the Marketing is the marketing and the of course there are nuances, you know There are nuances in how you produce a symbol that make a difference sound wise Sure, it's tiny little nuances that we do differently than other companies um, and that makes a difference sound wise, you know the the finishing The way you treat the surface The shape of a symbol the bell is a very crucial part of a symbol All these things they take years and years of development until you reach a point where we are now and of course There are nuances and things that are different within all the manufacturers It's like unique to each company unique to each brand and that Develops over years and years and years decades even yes Yeah, that's like anything you do. There's going to be some We'll call it competition, but People there there's enough of the the pie to go around for everyone and people like different things and people mix and match and and it's great, so um Okay, well then jumping back in here So i'm on your your website looking at the history that's very cool and i'll i'll share it in the show notes, but Just interesting looking at 1974 it says mine will start selling the first and it's Correct me if i'm jumping ahead or anything Mine will start selling the first japanese Toma drums from from hoshino, so Now we're not doing star. They've actually changed their brand to Toma, so that relationship has gone on for i mean that's that's got to be a That's that's pretty neat. I had no idea you guys were so connected to tomah At least in the german kind of like that that market. That's really cool since 63 Yeah, we are importing them since 63. We were the we were like i said We were the first customer they had outside of asia Very cool. Yeah, that's such a big part of your business is distributing and other Instruments other brands, um, which it's just that's just good Business there. We have had a lot of other brands over the years Not just tomah and iberness. We had all that datario brands at one point pro mark evans We worked with evans when it wasn't owned by datario yet. You know when bob beals Founded evans. We were already doing business with bob beals. We were doing business with a brothstein family for pro mark We've done business with the datario strings um, a lot of guitar effects there used to be a company called rock tron I think they were from texas and they were like a guitar effects digital the guitar effects we We bought a lot of their instruments and distributed them and a lot of asian lesser known brands also guitars drums all kinds of stands huge business like music stands guitar stands all that kind of accessory business that we have done Since the 70s 80s up until early 2000s wow Yeah, you guys have the distribution channels and the logistics and again the efficiency and cleanness down. So why not Do that? So we have the sales force here, you know, like sales team traveling reps in-house sales reps covering many countries in europe That's great. They're all they'll work for us. They're not jobbers working independently They all work for minal and exclusively for minal Yeah, I've always heard such good things about about you guys and mainly it's from, you know Hearing like mike johnston and stuff. I'm sure you guys love because he's such a good ambassador to the brand He's wonderful. He's so great Really gets the word out. I mean again for a guy like me halfway across the world to be getting information it's through things exactly like we're doing right now where It's people like you talking and then word of mouth and and and good things spread and just as much bad things spread where they say Oh, I don't like that and then someone repeats it and then they repeat it and they repeat it and they repeat it So it's good to have a you know, you guys have a great reputation Okay, so Moving forward here anything else in the 70s. I see you guys 78 Minal percussion gets founded And starts production in thailand Yes, the percussion factory in thailand. We started that in 1978. Well, also about the 70s 1972 Reinhold minal, which is the second generation of minal family. He joins the company in 1972 And then 1978 we start the percussion factory in thailand producing congas bongos timbales jambes and all these Instruments and starting to sell them all around the world In this late 70s And that's huge. There's a huge part of what you guys do you almost Yes, you must take for granted about how much you how many like k-hones you always see the minal logo and Gembe's and stuff. It's just so cool. Awesome. Well, they're moving forward there I'll let you take it away and keep chugging here talking about the 80s Like I said, we launched a series called profile and raker which were the first Hydraulically hammered symbol lines that we introduced which we consider a professional sounding symbol In the 80s, we had guys like bill berry stefan kauffman as Artists, unfortunately at that time we did not have a professional working artist relations department yet. So we We're new to all of this um artist relation wise There was nobody who was comfortable or knowledgeable how to work with those drummers and endorsers at that time So this was kept on a on a minimum. This all happened on a very low level until the 90s Like late 80s early 90s. We had a series maybe some people know this called Tritonal this was the name of the series and in fact, this was a Billy Cobham signature series at that time. We had billy cobham endorsing minal symbols and he had his own signature series called Tritonal unfortunately our cooperation with him didn't last for long only a couple of years until we separated and from there on The 90s were very important for our percussion business Again, the focus was more on establishing percussion versus symbols series like Lightning or the custom symbol shop which we introduced in 95 A series which still exists today called classics was introduced in 1996 and series a moon candela all of these series were introduced in the 90s Yeah, that was the 90s seemed like a big changing period in general things go from You know Like if you really think about it 70s, it was kind of the end of that, you know The rock It just things progressed like so quickly like the the 80s were a big Drums, you know huge 20 symbols and then in the 90s you got smaller five piece sets More traditional symbols and stuff But MTV yeah, so people see Dave Grohl playing. I'm sure yes, you know hot rods sales went through the roof and All grace. Yes. Yeah It was a very progressive decade the 90s Yeah, also for us also for us Sure. Yeah, by then also, you know international travel Became more easy and more affordable The internet was about to Come to life in the 90s so It was a time where You could like foresee Some really revolutionary things going to happen Yeah Definitely. Yeah, and then for us in the year 2000 Two two really significant things happened first. We founded minal USA Up until that time we have always worked with distributors in the united states And in on january 1st 2000 we have launched minal USA our own company at that time in miami florida With our own office our own warehouse our own staff So that was a big step towards the american market for us and It is still the case when you want to be successful globally all over the world You have to be successful on the american Market because especially in the music and entertainment industry The world is looking towards america everything that is happening there is trend setting in music in movie in in technology so Uh We knew that if we want to make it as a global brand we have to have the success in the united states and Paying tribute to that we We launched minal USA in the year 2000 And it's gotta be huge. That was huge. Yeah at that time. I was actually I was Moving to miami. I lived there. I've lived there for six months from october 99 to march To help launch minal USA Was a nice time. I enjoyed different than germany very different the winter in florida is i mean You know celebrating christmas on the beach with christmas tree is Totally different compared to like Three feet of snow exactly. Yeah completely different. There's no um Being a guy who lives in you know a city where there's all four seasons it It's sort of weird when you're in a place where there's no snow and it's like oh, did was christmas yesterday I don't it didn't feel like christmas, but um So I have a question So I always want to like ask maybe the simple questions that someone who's younger or or just doesn't know and I think We talk about distribution a lot Can you kind of put it, you know in a nice package like can you explain the distribution process because I think people know Just by nature. We know what it means, but when you say We were using distributors to get into america and then we built minal USA Then we didn't have to use distributors. How does that work? Like just the distribution process and theory. Yes. Good point That's a good point. Thank you imagine you're 15 year old and you want to play drums and you go to a store And you buy a set of drums So how are the drums gonna get to that store? When they're made in japan and this is basically what it is. So there is a company. Let's talk about a set of drums. There is a Company that produces the drums in asia somewhere in asia Then there is a company In america called a distributor Who is importing the drums from america from from asia The drums go in a container and they go on a boat and they go on the ocean And then they come to america and then the distributor Receives the drums. They put them in the warehouse and then the distributor sells the drums to the music store And that's where everybody can buy the drums from that is the distribution process from the manufacturer To the distributor to the music store to the customer That's basically what it is and When I say we were using distributors in america Meaning we as a german company we sold a lot of symbols To one company in the united states not to each symbols not to each music store Just to one company And they are the distributor and then they sell to All the thousands of music stores in the united states and that's how the distribution channel works Now and does do they actually So does the distributor and I don't want to get too technical. Does distributor Actually they buy the product from Drum company from you guys like they actually purchase it. So they take the like risk of then actually selling the product That's right. Okay. Just making sure or not. I didn't know if like hey Give us 50 of these we'll sell them and then we'll pay drum company back in china They actually and i'm sure they buy it at wholesale and then sell it and mark it up to the store And there's little markups along the way Yes, that's how it should be. I'm sure they are situations where it's different to But usually that's how it should be. Yes, and that's why you can't directly go and buy drums from You know from certain companies you have to go through like let's say big bang distribution, which is a big one Um in america. Um, okay as a music store. Yes. Yes Exactly as a music store. They are big music stores The bigger the music stores get you know the The higher the chance of them buying direct From a manufacturer also Okay, sometimes music stores they act Both as a distributor and as a retail store Okay, there are many many scenarios possible Especially in times like now where we have the internet and amazon and All the online sales and stuff like this. I mean The distribution channels have changed a lot over the last 15 20 years. They have changed a lot. They are not as Traditionally manifested anymore as they used to be Okay a little bit more open with global travel and so on. Yeah Everything has changed. I mean now you're Even I'll I'll interview a lot of like authors who have like books and they always say They always just get it on amazon Like it's it's just easier where instead of going to get it order it from a bookstore do this get it from alfred get it from Whoever it's like just that get it from you know that mega Uh distributor so yeah the product will always find the way to the customer Sure, that's a good way to put it It's not a quote that I I invented I have it from somebody someone told it to me and It's totally right. The product will always find the way to the customer Yeah, hopefully if the product is good the right product. Yes, right product. It's all up to the marketing of the brand to make sure to create the demand for the customer to Want your product and then how he gets it the channels how he gets it they are Very diverse right now, but the product will always find the way to the customer Yeah, okay, that's great. So all right then in 2000 You're in miami. You're drinking pina coladas on the beach on christmas exactly and There's no more distribution So you guys are then the factory that has a warehouse full of symbols then providing it you're your own distributor then correct Correct, that's right. Yes. Got it Okay Okay, that makes perfect sense three years later. We moved from miami to nashville And that's where we are still are Okay, yeah, that's a big music city. It's music city. It's the center of the nation of the country You know this to be shipping It's the shipping center fedex ups all these companies are based in memphis nashville area So it makes a lot of sense to be there Yeah, and it's music city another milestone that happened Two years later 2002 was we founded our turkish factory in turkish That was a huge milestone because B20 Bronx alloy is a sound and an alloy that we Have not had up until then Because it's a very unique way of producing and also being able to manufacture b20 alloy That we were not able to do in germany. So we have not had The b20 sounding symbol, but that is the sound that everybody wants to hear But in turkey That can be done. You know all our b20 symbols Are handmade in our turkish factory. They're cast from copper and tin and then they are made into These bison's range symbols that now why is it ever since yes Why is it in turkey? Like why can't you do it in germany? I've talked with paul francis I've done andy zilgen. I've done this and I should know this but why can't you do the b20? Stuff outside of of turkey We we certainly could we certainly could okay the thing is that turkey is known for symbol making They have a huge tradition of symbol making Everything in terms of symbol making not everything but most everything originates in turkey like when you have A car that says it's made in germany. It is already Automatically it's a great car Just because you can say it's made in germany or swiss cheese Or things like this and so is a turkish symbol, you know a turkish symbol is automatically a sign of A stamp of of quality and approval. Yeah, definitely. So you have the staff there you have the You have the history there of traditional symbol makers who know their craft who know the art of symbol making and That's why we went there, but okay, I mean it was also it was coincidence because we were approached by turkish people who wanted to cooperate with us In a symbol factory in turkey, but they wanted to be minel the brand and the name Behind that turkish factory. So it was an idea our turkish friends had and then they approached us with that idea and that's How we started it was coincidence Perfect. Wow good timing there and it was good timing and Then it took a year for us to develop the first series bison series And then we launched them at one of the music masses in frankfurt Yeah, and from there on together with our team at minel usa everything fell into place we had We had our own company in the usa in the most important music market in the world we had Symbols that sounded on a quality level like all other symbols out there and the sound was One that was appreciated and Wanted by drummers out there at that time. So that was everything fell into place then soon we hired At the already mentioned us artist relations representative chris bruer Who immediately started and was able to Get in contact and sign Those artists for us that were playing minel In in the early 2000s and then late mid 2000s And then everything fell into place. We had the artists We had the product And then the internet happened The internet got stronger and stronger More important worldwide and that for us was a blessing because From very early on I think we knew how to utilize the internet To communicate Our brand To the drummers We knew that We hadn't it was natural for us to work with the internet and Incorporate the artists in our communication the way we did it and the way we still do it So all of it fell into place and then Nam shows started to happen every year. I mean we were there in the 70s already, but then Like in the 2000s with minel USA going to nam show every year every year we The sales were picking up The product got out and yeah, everything started to happen more and more and then following the USA Also globally internationally We became more successful We kept on as like here in germany all the development happens in germany the r&d So we kept on developing and increasing the bison's line of symbols The bison's dark extra dry vintage all these lines were developed In the 2000s and until 2015 roughly We started our own minel drum festival in 2005 And then year after year we had one here on our own premises and during the last one we had 2000 people from 25 countries visiting our drum festival The internet was booming. We were filming all the performances so all of this progressed and Accelerated and you know you fast forward fast forward and then all of a sudden you were in the year 2020 And here we are Yes. Yes. I mean youtube Instagram facebook it's like when you do a drum festival in 2005 is pretty much I mean, it's I don't know the exact year But that's kind of the year that I think of like youtube is starting to boom and all these things and uh, oh, yeah and It's no longer you're doing a like a drum festival for 2000 people you're doing a drum festival for 200,000 2 million people who can watch these over the rest of the world, you know for Yeah, for all of time for all of time. I mean like you said Our first youtube video was uploaded in 2005 And it was from our first minel drum festival. It was a thomas lang performance video that we filmed That was our first youtube video Quality wise it is terrible Not thomas playing of course the production But still it's still on our youtube channel. It was the first video that we uploaded there. Yes Oh, wow, I'm sure it's got millions and millions of you. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Oh, yes, everyone loves thomas. That's funny. Wow Man, well, that's that's an amazing history. Yeah, it's amazing history, you know and in the meantime, we developed symphonic symbols We didn't have symphonic symbols. That was another very Very big and also an important step for us to step into this world the classical symphonic world This was 2009 one of our all-time Favorite best-selling symbols the sand ride benny grebs sand ride was developed with him in 2009 You know and all of these Steps, you know, they make the following steps much much easier everything you do afterwards becomes much easier because you have developed and created a sense of trust within the community and Yeah, it just makes many many things easier To to accomplish Yeah, and we're we're not Done yet. We're not finished yet. Oh, no, I I feel like Not that you got like you guys are just getting started is the wrong term because you're you've been doing it for what is it? 70 years now, but um, but I do think there's this just like I don't know guys like you said benny grab benny thomas lang mike johnston. I mean these guys are It's not luck that you get these great endorsers because the product is great and people believe in it, but but there's a bit of like You know you pick a winning horse where where they're using your product and they become Massive and they're huge drummers and everyone sees it and they want to go out and buy it and Again, it goes back to Ringo using Ludwig. It's like boom. Everyone wanted to buy Ludwig. Okay. Let's go buy, you know, this brand it's it's I mean It's you guys are there and it's only getting bigger and better And and it's very family owned obviously from what I can see on your timeline is there's 100% family owned We're now in your third third generation of minor family. Yes Wow That's awesome. I love hearing that instead of it being you know, it's yeah We're just a company with a you know a bunch of Guys at the top who don't care about it and it's just uh, you know a board gets together. It's not like that at all I mean Yeah, it's it's a family business and it it shines through it comes through in many many things when when you work here when you And when you when you spend time here like we have we have like Reinhold is the second generation Reinhold's wife. Her name is Ingrid Meinl. She also works in the um in the company here and A lot of our staff here a lot of workers they they refer to her as mom Meinl That's awesome. It's because She looks after her people For years and years and years. So it really is a family vibe that we have here. Wow there I mean, I'm here since 30 years. There are people here since 35 40 Actually 50 years people are working here Wow, it's and we see each other every day for at least eight nine hours a day. So we Yeah, it's yeah, I love it That's awesome. You're a lucky guy and you both you and and I've never met him or talked to him, but Chris Brewer You guys both have um Again, it's just funny how people hear these things through mediums like podcasts where you guys have the two of you have a very good reputation and um, thank you and just You know and and I'd say bad bad reputations spread just as much as good reputations So it's it's uh, you guys have a very clean and good reputation and uh, and you're a competitor. That's for sure you know when When I When I signed benny for Meinl, he nobody knew who he was. I mean, let's say not a lot of people knew who he was Yeah, but not a lot of people knew who we were either Yeah, it's like we grew together It was a very natural development for him as an artist and for us as a brand we grew together and we Complimented each other, you know, we benefited from him and his increasing popularity in the drumming community and at the same time He benefited benefited from us In us developing his sound that inspired him to play a certain way he plays Benny wouldn't be benny if he didn't have those sounds available Yeah, and we wouldn't be Meinl without people like him and I'm mentioning benny, but this goes for literally almost every artist That is in the spotlight in our communication. It's the same story with with with mike johnston with kelvin rogers with uh, anika benny all these guys, you know, we Grow together and that's a very natural thing and also authentic and people Believe it. It's they it's not a It's not let's you know, maybe you can call it like a fake marketing It's not like this is very honest and genuine and natural At least that's how we try to to be Yeah, and I'm a big believer in uh in anything you do You can't buy that you can't do it overnight. It has to be developed over time. It has to be earned Um, and that's with music. That's with work. That's with uh, yeah, I always I do audio engineering It's like with audio engineering You have to do 50 jobs and screw up 10 of them and then do 100 perfectly and make have problems and And to know what you're doing. Um, so Yeah, that's awesome step by step small steps One at a time but very continuous steps. Yeah, yeah, absolutely Well, um, norbert, why don't we I mean normally we say why don't we tell people where they can find you? Google minel you you'll find it for anyone listening in you know, and There's people all over. Maybe someone's not as familiar. It's m e i n l minel symbols, um Obviously there's minel dot de right or I guess we could just do minel.com probably redirects you I would imagine right no, sorry minel.com is a coffee maker from austria Okay, that's that has nothing to do with us There's a company called julius minel from austria and they make coffee that has nothing to do with us people find us on minel.de Which is like the corporate page Sure, we have it doesn't tell you anything about our products If you want to know about symbols you go to minel symbols dot com or minel percussion dot com This is how you can find us Obviously we are on all social media platforms available Instagram, facebook, twitter, youtube Anybody can find us there and then I always mention this there is this one email address That everybody can very easily remember and this email address is info at minel symbols dot com And that goes straight into my inbox and I personally respond to each email that is gonna come through On this email address info at minel symbols dot com Man, that's great. And I can I've learned from the show growing in popularity and I absolutely love Talking with everyone and getting emails, but it is very time consuming. So I think that's a um Uh, that's a great thing where you're taking the time to to actually like, you know Talk with people and answer questions and do all that and give your email out. Um, so Yeah, good. I think it's very important, you know, absolutely if I have if I if I want to know something from Another industry another brand that I'm a fan of and I send my request I expect An answer in a timely manner and that's what they get from us. Yeah Yeah, I can tell I don't get that a lot from some people I reach out to where I say Hey, I'll blame it on cove it, but it's like, let's do a company history and then I don't ever hear about it on cove it Yeah, it's cove it and I'm answering. No, no, it says too. It's too easy to blame everything on cove it Yeah, that's so true. Yeah, don't blame it on cove it. Okay Oh, great. Well, um That's awesome. This has been amazing. I've learned so much. Um, I feel like I fully know the company now and really, uh That's great. I just I love Again hearing more about the jab the made in japan stuff. I just again building these histories Of other little sub categories like on a lot of episodes. I'll learn, um About what was going on during the wars and what was happening then and in england and this and so it's it's really cool To piece this all together, um so Great, norbert. Well, thank you so much for being on the show and my pleasure. Thank you for having me Sure, my my pleasure and I encourage everyone to go out and uh buy some minor symbols and Percussion and not the coffee. That's not them. It's good coffee, too I bet I'm sure it's good coffee, too Just keep playing music no matter what kind of music just keep playing music Yes, keep playing music. Yeah. All right. Thanks, norbert. You're welcome. Thank you If you like this podcast find me on social media at drum history and please share rate and leave a review And let me know topics that you would like to learn about in the future Until next time keep on learning This is a gwin sound podcast You