 Welcome, welcome, welcome to Dear to Dream. This is Debbie Daschinger, and such a pleasure as always to be here with you today. I'm gonna be speaking with somebody. I'm so excited for this conversation. As you've heard from me and all the changes I've made in my life, I've got this very strange, inexplicable calling to shamanism. It feels so ancient and strange at times to me, but I have learned enough to get out of the way and honor the call. And so today, a little bit later on, I'm bringing on Oscar Murroquizada Solevo, and he's here to talk about a shamanic portal into the universe. Boy, do we need that right now. This is Dear to Dream. Thank you for joining today. Dear to Dream has won the Coalition for Visionary Resources Award for Best Radio and Podcast Show, listed in Welp Magazine as one of the top 20 best podcasts to listen to this year, nominated for two People's Choice Podcasts Awards for a Webby Award, and listed as one of the top self-improvement podcasts on Apple Podcasts. Thank you all because of you, that's where the show is today. I know you're on this journey as well. And the show is sponsored by Dr. Dean here in Access Consciousness. They do beautiful energy work out into the world. And if you'd like to join them, become a facilitator, take one of their classes, go to Dr. Dean here, h-e-e-r.com or accessconsciousness.com. I am Debbie Daschinger. I'm a visibility media specialist. I help you to write a page-turner book. I'm a book writing coach. I also have a company that takes your book to a guaranteed international bestseller. And I do all the work for the author. And the third piece of what I do is the ultimate visibility formula where I show you how to be interviewed on radio and podcast and get massive results. If you would like a free gift to learn how to do this and use visibility to get your beautiful message out into the world, go to Debbie Daschinger.com slash gift. It's d-e-b-b-i-d-a-c-h-i-n-g-e-r.com slash gift. So today I am speaking with the originator of the Pachikuri Mesa, transmitter of wisdom traditions, vision keeper of the heart of the Healer Shamanic Mystery School. Oscar Miroquizada Sulevo. Oscar is a respected Kamasqua, Corndero, and Alta Misiayi. God bless for me to say these, but they're beautiful words. Alta Misiayiouk, adept from Peru, founder of the heart of the Healer, originator of the Pachikuri Mesa tradition, cross-cultural shamanism, and internationally acclaimed Shamanic teacher and Healer, Earth honoring ceremonialist and author, Don Oscar is OAS fellow in ethnosychology and member of the evolutionary leaders circle and birth, 2012 welcoming committee. He's been guiding ethno-spiritual pilgrimage to sacred sites of the world since 1986 with special emphasis on Peru and Bolivia. His work has been featured on CNN, Univision, C&E, A&E, Discovery Channel, and Ancient Aliens with several books already published. Oscar is now the author of the new book, Shamanism, Personal Quests of Communion with Nature and Creation. You can learn more about him at his website and go to heartofthehealer.org. And with that, I welcome Oscar to the Dare to Dream show. It's wonderful to have you here today. Welcome to my heart, my dear sister, and all of your listening and viewing audience. It's an honor to be with you, sharing this pivotal moment in our human evolutionary potential. And your show, Dare to Dream, is something that is urgently needed as so many other visionary offerings that catalysts such as yourself are able to provide those new as well as those seasoned to the great work, capital G, capital W. So thanks for having me, you daddy. It's such a pleasure. It's absolutely a pleasure. I'm fascinated by what you do. And as I read your book, as I researched you and the abilities that you have, other dimensions, star seeds, other universes, I wish like a movie, I could somehow come inside of you and experience some of that. But what I wanna say first off is I feel like you're very brave, very brave to take that on because you must be ingesting things and allowing things to happen for you to let go at that level and go to those places that are unknown, right? Can you describe that a little, what this is like and are you ever afraid? Well, fear is an interesting phenomenon that I experience as a choice rather than a human necessity to begin with. And over the many moons I've been walking this path I've had encounters with non-ordinary quotes, unquote, realities that most people would have considered foreign, unmanageable, and even sometimes debilitating of one's psychic health and emotional wellbeing. Yet in the shamanic path, what is non-ordinary is really the path to the extraordinary. And therefore it's no sweat on my part to welcome any type of experience that the great cosmic mother decides to dream into my reality. In other words, I'm open to dying and being reborn and dying and being reborn again and again and again as a hollow bone, as a conduit, as an instrument of creation and the will of source. That's the best way I can put it. Simply, I may pass her by on this good earth, a friendly holographic projection that some people know as Don Oscar. Does doing that always necessitate ingesting something? And I can use the words ayahuasca and yahe and sanpejo, you know, hachuma, and there's so much more out there, peyote. Does it always include something like that or can it be done just by virtue of some of the rituals that you do? I see, that's what you were referring to by ingesting. No, our plant sacraments are an integral part of the shamanic phenomenon around the world, yet many cultures do not use any plant sacraments or any type of catalysts to expand consciousness on the contrary, just through ascetic practices and drumming and shamanic journeys and fastings and pilgrimages to sacred sites and isolated periods of dreaming of inner work. You can attain the same type of contact not only with alternative realities, but with the denizens, with the inhabitants, with the spirit helpers and animal allies that are part of these worlds, these inner worlds, the imaginal, the archetypal worlds. In my actual situation, I was initiated into the Camasca curandero tradition that involves the ingestion of sanpero cactus or ticucelos pachanoi. And I see all plant sacraments such as that ayahuasca, peyote, psilocybin, any entheogen that is now popular and even clinically being approved to treat a whole variety of psychopathological issues to be keys to a door, not the door itself, and that when you use them, they must be used with reverence and in a manner that has a foundation that is traditional that has been sanctioned since ancestral times by a tribal nation or representatives of an indigenous people that understand that these are not things to play with, that they're not recreational. They truly are sacraments, that they are spiritual food, as they say, food for the gods. Therefore, it does not require ingesting any type of plant to enter into a shamanic state of consciousness. We are born in a shamanic state of consciousness. If we just think of what it's like to be floating in the amniotic universe in our mother's womb, what more expanded state of consciousness, shamanically speaking, is that? So therefore, we have come in as amplified shamanic adepts. We just forget it over time because of social conditioning. Yeah, that's amazing that you say that. I worked for six months last year until the end of December with a Peruvian shaman. Who happens to live in my town? You can't write this stuff. I'm an indigenous woman, incredible. And the experience was amazing. And one of our very last experiences together, she had me do a journey that she guided me on. There was nothing ingested at all. And something very inexplicable happened when she had me in a cave and I was supposed to see certain things and certain things were supposed to be presented to me. All of a sudden, there was an animal that she hadn't brought up the word, that there would be an animal there, but this animal had one of the most incredible presences. And I will just go ahead and say it was a huge, enormous brown bear. Probably the furthest thing I would consider for myself or a connection with a spirit animal. And I don't know what it's called when they open their mouth. As though somebody was going after one of the young, ah, you know, this yell right in my face, but I knew that it loved me and was protecting me and had me. And to have something that fierce as an ally, I was so comfortable with it. I felt so loved. And when we came out, you know, she asked me about the experience and I said, wow, this was wild and real, absolutely real. And I have since then, I have now a little brown bear in my altar. I have this yearning actually sometimes for that reconnection with this animal. And this just happened from a journey that was led by somebody through me. Exactly, it's within us all. We are children of the dream as we understand it. And therefore, what is imaginal or archetypal, what is visionary is not something outside of ourselves. It's everything that exists, including our bodies, really are an extension of our soul, which is not bound by any three-dimensional view. So in a sense, what you're saying is that you had an opportunity to meet your tutelary, your animal teacher, and without having to be dismembered by the bear, because there's in shamanism, the shamanic initiatory call often involves, at least in a classic sense, often involves a death. And that can happen as a result of many things. Yet usually it's a psychic death, first of all. And that psychic death takes place through a dismemberment, through an encounter with a fierce, ferocious, frightening being animal or otherwise that tears the flesh off your bones, pulverizes your bones, and afterwards blows you back together because it blows its spirit into your heart space or into your crown and restores the integrity of your physical body and raises it to a spiritual body. And that animal becomes your tutelary or your animal protector and ally, like the brown bear did in your case. Yet at the same time, when you do, for instance, plant medicine in the case of ayahuasca, it's common that the great sacchamama or boa or anaconda, the mother's peak, shows up and swallows you whole and takes it into your body, takes her into her body, and after a while births you into being an ally of all of the great amarus, all of the great serpent deities that abound in shamanic consciousness. So what your experience was is a classic encounter with a very trusted ally of the shamanic path. Thank you so much for that. It absolutely felt like that and typically it would have been terrifying but it wasn't at all. I immediately knew to trust, I knew this creature had my back in a way almost that nobody else ever had throughout my life. And I felt so seen, so gotten, and it's amazing because about two years prior on a camping trip, a really hot area that we were in in California in the mountains, I just wanted to take a dip in the water and we scrambled down some rocks. I went to, actually I started taking off my clothes, I was gonna just run into this lake and wash off and enjoy the water. When I heard a noise and I turned around and there was a bear, a brown bear and he felt like a he, but he was a teenager for sure. Not a full adult, definitely not a baby. Right there, yards away from me. It was really scary because I didn't know if a mama was gonna be close by and what that might entail, but it turned out great. This little bear couldn't have cared less. He was also hot. He wanted to go in the river. He was like, see ya. And he went in there, this huge hulking thing just swimming so beautifully and gracefully. And now today I connect those two and went, oh, that felt like a little bit of a premonition of what was to come and so surprising. I don't think you can predict what an animal ally or a spirit animal is going to be. I think it's a surprise. It always is. All good things that lead to a breakthrough to an expanded state of awareness that in turn, one can internalize and make a path of selfless service in life is going to be unexpected. It's gonna be spontaneous. And it's going to be something that does not have boundaries or nor wants to be controlled or managed or directed in any manner. It needs to be like a river and flow on its own. So shamanic initiation rarely can be organized in any way. It happens spontaneously. I wanna talk a little bit about the etymology of shaman shamanism because as you know, it has this incredible renaissance right now on the planet. Everybody's into it and some people call themselves that and aren't really, there's no lineage there. There's really not been the tutelage and the passing down of the proper, I think, information to claim that, but a real shaman, shamanism, what's the etymology of that? Well, the term shaman is derivative of the Tungusic Siberian area. And Samang means he or she who is a master of fire. That's what it means literally in Tungusic language of Siberia or Mongolia. And it also means he or she who speaks with the spirits. And therefore, it's been adopted worldwide to represent many things, to represent the leading spiritual path of the times, just like Zen Buddhism and yoga was the trend in the 50s, 60s and 70s and Eastern spirituality continued to anchor itself within our Western consciousness. The earth honoring shamanic traditions, especially of the Americas now are doing the same thing. Was once considered a very exotic and unfamiliar experience is now something sought after by even the most mainstream people. You see shamans being represented on television shows and everywhere. So in a way, to be a shaman really requires that you are sanctioned by your indigenous community as a person that's been chosen by spirit to serve as a healer and as a mediator between seen and unseen worlds. Yet one cannot call themselves a shaman, traditionally one needs to be recognized as a shamanic emissary by their people, by their community. Anybody who says they are a shaman and does not have a social network, a cultural foundation that has sanctioned them or validated them as such has no right calling themselves a shaman. They can be shamanic practitioners but not shaman. Absolutely. And regarding ancestral star wisdom and interventional journeying, how is it possible to heal our soul and heal our planet? How can we successfully make contact with the healing energies of the cosmos and the other unseen allies? The greatest gift we have as two-legged, as human beings on this planet is our disciplined imaginative faculty. Imagination well-developed is the portal to an infinitude of worlds, to the great Shangri-la's and Shambhala's and Yakxings that are spoken about in the spiritual epics of the past, to the great worlds that our star relatives have inhabited since time immemorial. They're all there, yet ultimately they are within our own soul. So it's all about growing a soul, in my humble opinion. We must develop the humility and the ability to let go of our craving for control and approval and open up to a dance that is one of love and of service to a reality greater than one's individual self. And that's a process that takes a lot of inner work and taking your own inventory and deep transformation and change to enter into communion with star relatives, with beings and intelligences from non-ordinary earthly realities. First of all, requires knowing that they exist, number one, and making sure that you ask permission to enter into their realm, not the other way around. As a matter of fact, in the Peruvian shamanic traditions, we understand our star relatives to be part and parcel of our three-dimensional middle-world life. And we understand that what we witness in the skies are ourselves in the future. Now, wrap your head around that one. It means that everything that we're experiencing is more advanced than us and beings from these celestial realms is a witnessing of ourselves way, way into the future. I'm sure you get my drift. I concur a thousand percent. And I find that's so exciting, right? Well, there's no time anyway. The now is the everything, which means that, yes, some of these advanced civilizations are us coming back and reconnecting our families of us. I find all of that incredibly exciting. And the fact that you can, can you tell some stories about that? Maybe something extraordinary that you experienced where you have made that cosmos kind of connection, that star family connection. Gladly, although they may seem incredulous and I may be subject to ridicule, it's my truth. So I shall speak it. Now, there are techniques, tools, psychospiritual disciplines that have been known for millennia that are able to enhance, raise and amplify one's vibrational frequency as a being of light. And so these practices are important to prepare oneself as well as fasting and cleansings and making sure that your physical vehicle is something that will be able to withstand contact with that higher level of consciousness that is embodied in that star being that is ready to open themselves to receive you. And may I ask you, so I assume when you say that you mean Oscar because they vibrate at a much higher frequency that we do that want us to prepare their body and their psyche to meet that? From my personal experience, any entity or being that claims to be from a dimension that is of a extra planetary origin is an embodiment of pure unadulterated universal love. And love is the high capital L love is the highest form of vibrate. That's why there's so much Christ consciousness infused in all these UFO contact D groups because as a human example of that, or Krishna as a human example of that elevated of Bakhti or Agape, the miracles that occurred in their presence are historical, right? Are well known. So every being that inhabits those more rarefied higher ethereal realms is coming from a place of cosmic love, if I may say so. So in terms of my own personal experience, I've had numerous encounters. And the important thing with all of them is that I realized that it was once again having contact with myself capital S that this is not about becoming fixated with the physical phenomena of a craft or a sighting or some sort of manifestation of a shining being in one's life. Yet to use them as catalysts for your own apotheosis which means a transforming of one's own self into a divine being. And I had that experience in two occasions that were very pivotal in my own evolution as a soul on planet. The first was when I first became involved with a UFO contactee group known as the Rama mission in Peru that founded by Sixthopas Wells. And I was on my first outing with him and a group of other six individuals. And we were the contact group. There was a support group. We were out in the desert south of Lima. These three craft appeared in the sky. We're totally sober. As a matter of fact, the Rama mission demands that you're vegetarian and abstain from a lot of activities that make you a little more sluggish. And so we were out there very purified, three crafts show up, seeks to indicates close your eyes, go within and do not become fixated on the outside phenomena and wait till I tell you to open your eyes. And so long story short, he asked us to open our eyes. In front of us, there were these three beings that looked very much like the biblical angels that you see depicted, you know? But they were very tall robes, long hair, blue scintillating eyes that had been the aetheric projection of their true form, which were very different. Their true form were also tall, but brown skin, no hair, you know, very smooth features, very long fingers, very elongated arms. But we would be shocked if we saw them in their true form. So they allowed themselves to show themselves in their aetheric bodies. Upon that, they started to transmit telepathically certain insights into us. And then they asked us to close our eyes and we all just passed out, we went out. Six hours after, we all woke up at the same time. What happened is something I never was able to recall. All I know is that I felt like I had rejuvenated 10 years and I felt like a mountain go jumping up and down all of, it was like I was a child again. It was very interesting. So that was an extraordinary experience. Related to that was another experience in the same area of Chilka in which three crafts show up. This was with a large group of people and they manifested what's called a Zendra, which is an interdimensional portal. It's like a semicircle of light. It's about 30 feet in length and about 10 feet in height, like a half circle and scintillating and seeks to walk through it and disappeared. If you look to the side of the Zendra, it's like maybe two inches in width. He disappeared and we didn't know what was going on. All we knew is that there were still three craft out there beaming these lights, creating this semicircle. And after maybe two hours, he walks back out of that semicircle with a beard growth as if he had been out in the wilderness for about two weeks, right? All discombobulated, his eyes spitting, and he had been taken, believe it or not, to Ganymede, which is Jupiter's largest moon, which is where the Rama Guides have a crystal city that they call Mordalim. And in that crystal city, he was exposed to the Akashic library, brought back all this information for us, et cetera, et cetera. This was a few decades ago, this was in 1978. Those are two of many experiences that I've had in my flesh and bone that I tried initially to figure out and give a scientific reductionistic understanding to it, yet I realized that that's not the approach. The approach is to just celebrate the fact that there is much more to be experienced as a human being than what our social, cultural conditioning expects of us. Wow, what an honor that you, amongst these other people were chosen to have an experience like this. It sounds so extraordinary. And- If you're interested in the book, The Invitation, by Siegstor Passwells, The Invitation, it describes the experience in that book. Oh, beautiful. It's translated into English. I'm sorry for interrupting you, Mike. Yeah. Noted, thank you, The Invitation, I appreciate that. And so when you say you just accepted it, you didn't do any hypnotherapy to try to understand what happened in those six hours that you lost? You just went on with your life rejuvenated? Yeah, in those days, Bud Hopkins or John Mack or, you know, Whitley-Streiber weren't the thing. In those days, it was just, yeah. You were on your own. It's like the Dalai Lama said when he was asked, so what about star beings? He said, oh, they're fine, thank you. That's great. Yeah, and how beautiful about this man coming back with the beard and the growth, like he'd been gone for two weeks, because, you know, often people, they look at the Akash, right, as a very earthbound experience, but the truth is the Akash is universes of information, libraries upon libraries, like when somebody really can do that type of reading or understanding comprehension of the material, it's infantismal, what is contained in there. Exactly, and there's layers upon layers and dimensions upon dimensions, and it's revealed to those souls, at least in my experience, that are willing to walk between worlds, to not claim a particular sense of identity that are more open to being fluid in their experience of self and their relationship with others and not to be bound by any fear, doubt or insecurity. Wow, that's like, right now you just put down a gauntlet for me, because, you know, I'm very called to this, so I have a little bit of work to do there, but I can't even explain why I find this all so, like food, so important, and thank you for sharing all of this. You are known as an altomisa yok, and that is the name given to the highest level of Andy and Prist, one who communicates with other dimensions, and that's what you're called, that's what your abilities are. What did it take for you to be able to have that moniker, if you will? What kind of initiations did you have to go through? Well, in fact, the altomisa yok is one level, it's not the highest. The highest is the Kurakakuyak, which my teacher, Don Benito Corriwaman Vargas from Moasau, in Cusco, the famed Kurakakuyak had attained. Kurakakuyak gets the coca leaf quintus, the leaves, and they blow over them and they speak out the names of the Apus, of the mountain deities, and they work the weather like magicians, and they are so connected, and they usually live in a very isolated Spartan area up high in the Andes and have very little encounter with their IU, with their extended spiritual family down in the villages. They're dedicated to just blowing their prayers through the leaves, creating saminchai, bringing the renewal of animating essence to the world. And I was fortunate to apprentice with Don Benito Corriwaman Vargas from 1982 to 1986. He passed over in June of 1986. I was doing my field work in ethno-psychology with the Organization of American States, then creating satellite programs to mainstream folk healers into the public health delivery system in Peru. And so I was interviewing all these maestros and maestros, all these famed healers, and Don Benito was one of them. The minute I met him, like what happened to me with my first mentor, Don Cesar, I was mesmerized. We recognized each other, and little by little he trusted me and he let me into his home in Wasau and taught me the arts of haiwes, of offerings, of haiwarikui konoes, of despachos, or ritual feedings to the earth mother, and to all of the denizens, the watchers, the nature spirits, the tree spirits, the mountain spirits, and the departed ancestors. And over time he thought that I had the right heart to go ahead and share this with people from the northern regions of more developed nations. So he initiated me in my musok chawariki, which is a transmission of lineage of the alto misayok level. There are, that's not the highest though. So I'm honored to be able to teach others also these arts, these ritual feedings, these pilgrimages, these ritual practices for the building of stone cairns known as apachetas, that serve as acupuncture needles on the meridian system of our earth to keep things in balance so that kausai, life force flows unhindered throughout her body. There's many levels to being an alto misayok, but it's all nature-based, all in honor of nature. Now, when you were a child in your book, this shamanism book that's just out, you tell a story that you were healed from very acute asthma. Will you share that story? Certainly. Yes, that's one of two stories that I have in the book because aside from most of the book that I write, there's a middle section that has 25 riveting stories by other people, some that are my students and others that I've never met but that have had encounters with shamanic realities that have transformed their lives in very beneficent manner. And they're fascinating. The stories you're referring to are the first and the last of that group. Now, the first one is my encounter with the three shining ones when I was 10 years old. And that is also in my first book, Lessons in Courage, for those interested going to depth into that. But to summarize, I was on dexamethasone, cortisone intravenously to be able to breathe. I was very, very sickly as a child growing up in lima. And in lima, it was very polluted and it's on the sea level. And I could not breathe. I have these attacks of hypoxia to the point of almost passing out. So my father, who was a physician working for public health institutes, decided to take me to Chosica, which is 11,000 feet above sea level in the central Andes of Peru where I spent a whole year at age 10 with my mother living there permanently by ourselves. One of those evenings, and my attacks were much less than they were in lima, but they still occurred. And one of those evenings, I had a severe suffocation episode and I just decided, I don't wanna struggle anymore. And I decided to just let go and whatever happens happens. And if I go to the other side, I go to the other side. So classic near-death experience, but in the background, I start hearing my nickname being called softly. And I come out of my almost near, almost death slumber and menace open my eyes. And in my dark room, I see these three beings scintillating beings of light. Similar to the ones that I saw afterward in this encounter that I had in the Chiluca Desert with the Rama mission that I spoke about a little earlier, but not exactly. These were not extraterrestrial beings. These were trans-dimensional shining ones. They were beings of the most inordinate loving light that one can imagine. They communicated telepathically and they told me a bunch of things about what my life would be from that moment on in the future. And one of them bent over, placed their lips to my heart area, to my torso and began a classic shamanic suction and extraction. It was like interminable and just told that I could feel all of this disease in Chucha and all these years of struggle to more than just physical struggle, emotional struggle being pulled out of me. And he just placed it in his lungs and then released it into the above. And this vortex of light just carried all this stuff out through the ceiling beyond. This is a, I'm summarizing, it was a very detailed experience of transformation that occurred. But anyway, at the end, they told me to go back to close my eyes, go back to sleep, woke up the next day, totally free of the asthma. My mother didn't believe it. She said, no, prove it to me. So I said, come, I took her outside. There's the river, there's a river Remak, the talking river right next to big boulders. I was jumping up and down the boulders not without any getting winded at all. Managed to go back to Lima. The doctors didn't believe it. My father didn't believe it. Began to play normally, began to play soccer and became very proficient at that and was able to get a full ride to a very prestigious university in the United States because of playing soccer. And so it was restored to optimum physical health as a result of that. That's extraordinary. So you were clearly brought here for good. Your soul knew its mission and because you would think that being sick at that level, you would have scarred lungs, you would have a lot of residual issues, but it sounds very much into the curandera how they, I've heard and seen a lot of these, I've seen movies of people like this, like their incredible skills to be able to pull out of someone's body. These kinds of sicknesses, emotional and physical and so forth and restore people completely. But yours was not earthly. Yours was of another faction, these luminous beings. Do you ever have encounters with them since your childhood? Well, yes. And as a result of that, I forgot all about that experience. I must comment on this. After that, I was amnesic. I didn't remember anything. I just knew that I felt great. When I began my formal apprenticeship with my first shamanic mentor, Don César Rojas Paromino, I was almost turning 18 at the time. So from 10 to 18, almost eight years had passed. I hadn't remembered anything. But when I met my first teacher in the first ceremony that he had me participate in, out of his central altar, these three luminous beings are shining ones like I call, just started to levitate and emerge out of. And I was, and I started to remember everything. But the fascinating thing is that in that moment, Don César, who he was sitting next to me, he elbows me and he says, do you remember them? So he was seeing them himself. That, of course, turned my life upside down. I realized, man, this shamanism stuff is something I really want to learn more about, right? So that shows you that these beings of light are out there all the time behind the veil, ready to assist us in our own soul's maturation and growth. So it's not that you have to be special or chosen or anything like that to have these experiences, just simply that you may have in past lives done some decent work. And at this time, there's an opportunity to cross the veil, to be of further service. And it requires some sort of encounter with a very transformational encounter with beings that are not normally accustomed to be recognized as valid partners in our earthly dance. God, I love that. That's so beautiful, so beautiful. I've got this gorgeous quote from you, Oscar, which is, the first shamans were all women. They were all drummers, rattlers, the trans-inducers, the wild ones, the witches, the sorceress, the kick-ass mamas. They were the women of power. Can you talk about that quote in relation to today and what we can expect going forward? That's a quote of mine in the book. Not from the book, but something you said. Oh, yes. I've said that often. Well, yes, because that's the truth. In the Paleolithic era, upper Paleolithic era where shamanism really took root across the world, the medicine was always carried by the women. The women knew about the herbs. The women knew about midwifing. The women knew about bone setting. Anything that had to do with a healing intervention was the domain of our goddesses, of our women. And they were the first oracles and the first ones that were able to enter into the dreaming and invoke through trance states information that was beyond the five senses that served to guide their community. So yes, they were the kick-ass mamas that were the primordial shamanic emissaries of our planet. After that, the men started to practice other means of altering their consciousness through trance states. And similarly, it started to do what women were doing for millennia. That's why so many male shamans, especially in Siberia, dress like women. They have skirts on and they put makeup on and they're bisexual in many ways. All tricksters are of dual gender sex nature in many ways because they realize the origins down deep inside that it's the ones who give birth to the human life. The only ones truly qualified to restore wholeness where fragmentation has occurred. And those are our mothers, our grandmothers, our sisters. Do you feel that the women, the females are going to play a really large part going forward during this ascension and during this healing of humanity in the planet? They already are. Look at you. You're one of them, sister, right? You followed, you heated your call to teach people to dare to dream. You heated the call, obviously like me, you just showed it, one day you said, this is something I've got passion for. I'm gonna step up to the plate and make it happen. You didn't know what was gonna happen, right? Just little by little started to unfold. I just knew that you had juice, you had love for what you did. I find in the circles that I serve, 85% are all women, 15% are men. And within that 50%, they are men that have developed a deep sensitivity, a feminine-like awareness and respect of relatedness and belongingness and family and being caretakers, not just domineering patriarchal types. And we are entering into an era right now known as the Tari Pai Pacha, or the era of re-encounter according to our prophecies in the Andes, which requires that everybody who comes to the table of the world creator, which is none other than oneself, of course, break bread together and without any difference of gender or without any difference of social status, economic position or cultural origin. And so we become one, one, not many, when we sit down at the table that is going to nourish the seven generations in the spiritualization of humankind that is prophesied to occur. That's how we understand it. And do you think that that is why shamanism is so prevalent right now? Why medicine, plant medicine is so prevalent? I mean, it used to be, this was something in the very sacred areas of the world that was practiced and used and has been forever, right? But it's now become very public, very much known about, used, people seek it for healing. And I think it's fascinating that it's making such a resurgence in such a large global public way. Do you think that's part of our healing going forward? Most definitely, it's no surprise that our planet is going through a rite of passage, a major global initiation. And there's no better venue, no better means of assisting one's initiation or one's rite of passage than the shamanic arts. Shamanism is a rite of passage, an initiation because it's inherently self-transformational. So yes, for us to make it on this good earth as humankind, we need to get over ourselves as separate from the rest of the web of life. And the only way to do that is to be willing to die to the old ego-based, controlling, stinking, drunken monkey mind and come to a place of heart. That path from head to heart is the longest journey we'll ever walk. And that's what's happening, that's what's being required right now of humankind and the shamanic tools, techniques and practices that are out there, especially those that are freely shared by the people of Heart Island of South America are just the same that TM and Zen Buddhism were in the early days, yet they bring the earth element to it. This is not about transcending the body, this is about embodying oneself as an earth walker and healer of all things planetary. And what is the medicine of, and tell me if I'm saying this right, Waira, W-A-Y-R-A, the medicine of Waira, what is that exactly? Waira, Waira in Runasimi Riketo means wind. So medicine of Waira is the medicine of the upper celestial realms of the Hanakpacha, of the superior realm. And it takes the form of this invisible movement or flow that at times wakes you up and makes you realize, oh, there's something around me that I can't see, but it's really working in my life right now. And it is accompanied usually by a visionary state that you can either have through lucid dreamings or even in your daydreams, but you start to have an enhanced creativity and you start to develop what's known as Vista or psychic sight, clairvoyance. All that is associated at least in our tradition with Waira, the medicine of Waira. And this is something that you practice. It's a tool, yes, it's a tool. We have Aipa, we have Unu, we have Waira, we have Nina, and we have Tekse Kaipa. So we have the medicine for the body, for the heart, for the spirit, for mind and for soul. And they are derivative of the Alto Misayo lineage as a matter of fact. And do you do actual healings on people? Can I, I mean, you're rather big, like large on the global platform to do this, but ostensibly could somebody come to you and you could do a complete healing on them? When the time is, I used to offer any in-person event that I was part of, always involved healings, especially in the early days. And I studied, I did my formal training in clinical psychology. So I had a psychotherapy practice and I always combined that with shamanic healing techniques in the early days. Now I don't do that yet. I have a cadre of sanctioned teachers in the Pachakuti Mesa tradition that are well, well qualified to do healings of that nature. When I teach my in-person seminars, of course, if I see that somebody is in need or they tell me with anticipation, I'll make sure to open up the space to be of service to them. But it depends on where I'm at and the moment I'm in. We consider it a sin not to offer healing if the healing is necessary, if you find yourself in that situation. And do you receive medicine from the stars? Is there some kind of dialogue or download or telephone, if you will, back and forth between the cosmos and you? I wouldn't say I receive it, but I'm, how could I say this? I am bound forever to respond to the power that is available and use it in a way to help people wake up to their own wholeness. So my response to that, my good sister would be that I'm always in contact with as much elevated wisdom and mystery as possible. That was moving. That should be a mantra, really. There's four people who are spiritual messengers and come in with past life trauma about being visible. That's one of the things I teach is spiritual messengers to be visible. And I feel like I know I'm gonna go back and write that down and share that with people as your quote, because to be bound to serve because of the power given to you, I think is exactly why we're here. Doesn't matter really whatever what comes up because we can transmute all of that, but to really show up and serve those in need as we can is tremendous. It's our piece of the puzzle of here, what we're doing on heaven, on earth. They call it a, in the East, in Tibet, they call it a bodhisattva path, right? Yeah. That's our dharma. How can you say no to your dharma? How can you say no to your dharma? Wow, I hope really hope people are hearing this. It's so beautiful. In your book, and where can people get your book? Let's start there. I already know it's on Amazon, but where else can people get the book shamanism? At their preferred bookseller, you know? Wherever you like to buy a book, you can find it there. If you do go to Amazon, the advantage, if you wanna help expand this wisdom tradition in the world, if you leave a review, that helps. I'm not too good at marketing myself, but I promised my beloved wife that I would say that. And as somebody who works in books, I can tell you he speaks the truth because book reviews are everything. So yes, absolutely leave a glowing review, but you have to buy the book, by the way. That's a thing on Amazon. Good reads, a lot of people buy it, good reads, or you know, you know the bookseller is better than I do. Yeah, well everything's accessible. Sacred stories, sacred stories also. Sacred stories, yes, that's their website, your publisher, yeah, and they're amazing. They're incredible. Friends of mine, and I support them, and I support you in this book. There's something you said in the book, and I wanna unpack this idea a little bit. Shamanism is the medicine our world needs for seven generations and beyond, seven generations. So we're gonna last at least that long. Talk about that. It's a saying among shamanic practitioners and especially the tribal nations of Turtle Island or North America that every thought, word, or action that one engages in should be considered in terms of its impact, seven generations from now. That it's not something to just be a contribution to one's survival in this incarnation, but a passing forward, a gift that people could use in the future. So therefore demands of a heartfelt shamanic practitioner to be very responsible and conscious with the types of thoughts they have and the types of words that they use and how they, the example that they exhibit as they walk this earth. I feel it's a very powerful wisdom teaching because if more people thought about, I mean, of course, when you're in your early adolescent and teenage years and young adulthood, usually you're pretty narcissistic and self-absorb and don't care much about how people are going to think about you when you die. But when you get a little older, of course, you wanna leave your, you know, some, something valuable, something that is of worth that someone can adopt in the future and improve their lives with. That's the seven generation piece there. Everything we do through the heart of the Healer Shamanic Mystery School is a gift to the seven generations. There's not one teaching in that, in our outreach groups and in our apprenticeship programs that is not developed with that purpose in heart. And how do you know when enough is enough? So what I mean specifically, when I was called to plant medicine, I was called. It was as much a surprise to me as anybody else, but I was very much called and I knew it was gonna, it must occur. And now here I am, however many years later, I've drunk 25 times, which you and I know that's really not a lot, but there is a part of me that's like, I feels okay for today. But there are also people who keep drinking. They keep going back to ceremony and they keep drinking plant medicine. Do you keep planting? Do you still do Aya? Do you still do psilocybin, et cetera? And how does somebody really know when enough is enough? What are they looking for? I personally, very discerningly still commune with our plant sacrament, the handful of times a year. Part of my own formal apprenticeship included vast amounts of communion, of course, over many moons, especially when I was living with Onsenso up in the northern coast of Peru. And yet, there's not one answer for everybody. It's really based on one's own subjective experience. Yet in my own case, I came to a point where I realized that there wasn't anything else I needed to look for that demanded amplifying my consciousness through the plant spirit that I was already awake enough. And so therefore, the only reason I use it now is basically just for my own personal development for deepening my presence as a soul that is able to exist autonomously, free of my physical vehicle. So I use it to transcend the world nowadays and go hang out with realms of awareness that feed my soul, not necessarily amplify my ability to serve my people. That's beautiful. I do that already, if you understand what I'm saying. Absolutely. I think that's the break point for me. Does it, am I gonna continue to take ayahuasca because it's going to, because I need it to be a better healer or express more love and teach more love by the way I live or not? And my answer has been, no, I can teach as much love by the way I live right now. That's the main medicine in the world, Lodge. Yes, 100%. Oh my gosh. Do you do rituals or practices every day? How do you start your day? What is it that you surround yourself with? Would you like to see my medicine Lodge here? Yes. Can I pick it up? Yes. It's not activated right now, but this is, talk about rituals and ceremonies. It's gonna be a second. This is an honor. Hold on. I'm gonna have to put on the light. So I don't know if you can see it. Do you see this? Yes, sir. So this is my Banco Maestro. This is our ceremonial Lodge. This is my wife's mesa. Do you see that? I do. What is all of that? These are crystals. These are shells. What is all that? They're called artes. They're medicine pieces, ceremonial items, several that have been gifted to me by my teachers and ancestors and others by, these are my teachers here. If I don't know if you can see their faces. No, I see some, just the bottom of some feathers. Oh. If you pick up the camera, a little bit more. Oh yeah, now we see. And then this is my Banco. Yeah, and so this is unusual. I've never done this in any interview before. So this gives you a little idea when you ask, do I do ritual? Yes, I do. This is our, my Ritual Lodge. That was extraordinary. And so you spend time, I'm clearly there's power objects. There's a lot of energy in that room. Huge amounts, yes. And so do you start your day in front of that? Is that, talk about that a little bit, what that is for you? My day starts doing what I call interplane work, which is I lay, the minute I come to consciousness, out of my dream consciousness into waking consciousness, I lay in bed, close my eyes, and basically open my heart to gratitude for whatever experiences are gonna come my way that day. And then I do the same, I do a life, a day review before going to sleep. So I start my day with an offering of gratitude to source and my day giving thanks for what I experienced and offering gratitude and source. So that's how I, but after that, I come to that lodge and I sit for a minimum of 20 minutes, half an hour and just communing, tuning in to all of the ancestral medicine pieces there, seeing if any one of them, because they each have a consciousness, they each have an awareness in the soul. They've been used and held in the hands of extraordinary people for long, long time. So they have what we call in in Guaranderismo y Cuenta, a story. So I call upon their story if there's anything that I need to know. So I spend my morning, first thing, and then after that I'll proceed with my day, have my breakfast and proceed with my day. And then of course we have specific times that we really rev up the power through our traditional rituals, the new and full moons, equinoxes, solstices and the like planetary alignments and Wednesday night linkups that we do with our global community of Pachacuti miso carriers that we do through Zoom even. So we do that in that lodge. That was so powerful to see. Thank you for pulling back that curtain and letting us in. And for those who are listening to the podcast, head over to youtube.com slash debbie dashinger. So you can see that. That was moving. And also what is possible for anybody to do at whatever scale and whatever consciousness you're at right now, beautiful way to start and end your day and to open yourself up to the messages that are there in all of those objects that contain so much potency, you could feel it, the photos and the objects. And don't ask me to cause a slave. This is dare to dream. What do you next dare to dream? What are your future dreams and goals? When we let go of the need to figure it all out and cultivate the ability to let it all in, then our earth dance becomes a sacred gift of healing light for the world. More than saving our planet needs loving. That is my dream, to be an emissary of love every day more and more. And you are. You really are. Thank you so much for coming on the show. I was so meant to meet you and have this conversation and my heart feels really full because of all the wisdom and stories and information of possibilities that you shared with us today. I'm truly grateful. Thank you, Debbie. Thank you so much. Keep up the great, great capital G work, capital W. I will. And if you're interested in this book, Shamanism, now you know where to get it, you can go to Sacred Stories. You can go to Amazon. Goodreads are your favorite bookstore. And Oscar's website is partofthehealer.org. I end today's show with this quote from our guest today. The great work, and again, that's capital G and capital W, is to birth a state of transdimensional awareness to allow the gods, goddesses, spirit helpers and animal allies to walk again on the earth. They will reveal themselves and all separation of spirit and matter will be gone. Subscribe to this number one transformation conversation Dare to Dream with Debbie Daschinger. Next week's show is gonna be featuring the amazing Maria Martinez. She's a wealth consciousness activator, multi-dimensional healer, energy alchemist, light language channel, medical intuitive, business success coach and speaker. She's honestly so much more. She's part of the Galactic Council and her purpose is to weave the galaxies together to keep the balance, protect humanity and empower them to evolve, ascend and assess the upper dimensions. She is going to be taking us through some healing and experiences. Thank you all so much for joining us today on Dare to Dream. And remember your calling that you were given the power and just salt and pepper and put it out in the world, it is yours. And you are so supported by those who are seen and unseen.