 All right, hello Bridget thanks so much for joining me how you doing today. Good, thank you for having me. Happy to hear. Yeah, you too. Super glad that you made it and you are glowing it with the coming of the newborn baby. Oh, what do you do by the way? April at the end of April. So still in the second trimester rounding, rounding out the corner of that. And then yeah, it'll be it's actually gone a lot faster than I thought it was going to go. Yeah, no, we, you know, funny story about my son. I think we were like kind of in denial and we realized she was pregnant like five or six months along the way. She was a little chunky like myself. So we're like, no, you're probably not pregnant. You know, so like it was quick. Like after just a couple of months later, he was popping out. That's crazy. I don't know how anyone could not know for that long. I think you'd have to be in denial because wouldn't you be missing like periods? So, OK, to get into female anatomy a little bit, she was spotting. You might have heard about that. So that's how we kind of were able to lie to ourselves. I was also in my full blown addiction at the time, too. So I wasn't exactly thinking rationally, you know what I mean? But yeah, I was unemployed. Life was a mess. Yeah, OK, let's let's lean towards the side of maybe you're not pregnant. Yeah, yeah, that's so crazy. But it does make for a short pregnancy. Yeah, you know, speaking of and I want to dive into your recovery a little bit, but something I wanted to ask you, have you, you know, for us addicts, like I was one of my main drug of choice was painkillers. Have you thought about that with the pregnancy and how you're going to navigate the pain? I mean, I don't think they give you heavy painkillers because your breastfeeding and stuff, you know, I mean, I have no problem with like epidurals and all that stuff. Like, yeah, that, A, it's like from the waist down, literally. And B, take whatever you need to get through that painful experience. As far as painkillers go, I've had. A couple of surgeries in my sobriety and I was really resistant to taking them for the same reason. And my finally, my doctor was like, you've got to do something because you're not sleeping in the best rest you can get is sleep. So I don't really care. You're not going to heal unless you sleep. And I just had a roommate at the time. And so I just gave them to her and I just have to be super like I can't. I just put them, someone else in charge of them, you know, I'm not, it's weird though, being pregnant. Like I haven't, I haven't even thought about using or anything. I'm so glad that I didn't drink or smoke weed and have to go through quitting that stuff, like, like most people, you know, they have to give up drinking or they have to give up even just normies, give up smoking weed. And I didn't have to give up anything. So other than I couldn't drink coffee at all for the first trimester, just like my body wouldn't let me. So yeah, I it was it was easy, you know, and I was grateful that it's been almost. Gosh, has it been eight years? Yeah, I think I just celebrated. I can't even keep track anymore, which tells you how long it's been. Yeah, so yeah, it was eight years. So that's a long time to for just, I think like cellular recovery. You know, I feel like I was in a very healthy place. And I don't have any desire to like put that stuff in my body if I can avoid it. Yeah, it's it's it's really weird. Like I've had that conversation. I live in Las Vegas, right? So I'm surrounded by this shit all the time. And, you know, I've had people like, hey, you've been sober, you know, like nine years now, you think you can just have a drink. But when I look at things in just the way, you know, my life's changed. I don't turn to that towards a solution anymore. My mind doesn't even go there. I have so many other things, whether it's like therapy or meditation on my support group or close that meetings, like that doesn't even come in as this option. Have you kind of noticed that too? Have you ever hit a point where you're like, I really just want to get like fucked up. I did an early sobriety, I would say in the first three years, you know, that was still very much. But I really look at it as like habit building, like any habit at first. It's very challenging. And in this instance, you're just building a habit. It's a negative habit, like you're not doing something and usually trying to replace it with other healthy things. But I did used to hear from people like my sponsor in early sobriety, like it gets easier. There was a winner in the first particularly three, but I would say up to like five years, there was a time where I couldn't imagine not craving weed, not craving booze, not missing it, not living, you know, not jonesing for it, not wanting it when things got hard, not missing it when I was celebrating. And it did get easier. That's not to say that I don't have to be diligent. And I do agree with a lot, you know, the idea that this is kind of a spiritual malady has has been very resonant to me over the years, in particular, where I see that my sobriety, particularly my emotional sobriety is so dependent on the state of my spiritual condition that I do have to maintain that and pay attention to it. And if I'm doing those things, then I think I'm in a good place. But that being said, I'm pregnant and I'm aware that like in the times where I've really craved over the years or really felt like I was in danger of going out or slipping was usually when I was like PMSing. And I felt like I didn't have as much control over myself because of my hormone. So I'm also aware that I'm right now being pregnant, maybe have no desire that could change really quickly postpartum. So just making sure that I'm, you know, short up and connected and connecting to women in particular and women's meetings and and being. I have a great therapist and just making staying on top of all that. I have to stay current, you know. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And and yeah, I want to talk with you a little bit about 12 step programs and stuff in a little bit, but, you know, that specific aspect of spiritual malady, like people, the normies out there who are unaware. That's like, that's where we learn about that stuff. And, you know, listening to some of your interviews and hearing bits and pieces of your recovery story, it sounds like we have very similar stories. Like I grew up, I had an alcoholic mom. She actually got sober when I was 20. So she helped me get sober when I was 27. So that was, yeah, but yeah, like you, I didn't start drinking or anything until I was like 18. Like I was I started at 12, I started early. Yeah. Yeah, I wasn't starting late. I just didn't start doing hard drugs until I was 18. Yeah, 17, 18. So what, what do you think that was? Was it something major in your life? And you can get into as few or as many details as you like, but like what what switched it where you were like, I need to get messed up in order to deal with all of this. I mean, yeah, I've talked about this before. I was, I was kind of a run of the mill alcoholic and stoner. I would say up until around 17, 18. And then I was drugged and raped and everything escalated after that in the year following. So I would say there. Yeah, there was a moment where I can point to I was, you know, I did shrooms and some, but I wasn't really touching any of the powders and didn't they were around, but I just wasn't that into them. And then after that, I was everything just kind of escalated. And I was open to trying everything and anything. And really just wanted to get out of my brain and body. And yeah. And then that just it. So definitely there was like a moment, but I had already been in full addiction for many years, just not in hard drug addiction. Yeah, it was in that manageable kind of phase. I mean, kind of when I really look at it, it was not manageable. I mean, I was I was even in my high school years, my I was a really good student and when my parents became preoccupied, it's not entirely my fault. But I would say I turned to partying and drinking and smoking weed. And my grades definitely like I was a straight A student and could have graduated in my junior year to go to college and then and got accepted. But my mom didn't want me to leave and I was like so bored. And because I had so many credits for moving so many times, I could. I only had to go to half of my senior year, like half of the day on my second semester, my senior year. And I almost failed out of college like school, high school. I almost failed my fourth semester or my like that final semester of my senior year and was like missing school all the time and almost missed my graduation because I was so drunk and was hammered at my graduation to the mortification of my father who had flown in. Yeah, it was I mean, there were already consequences for for that kind of. Alcoholic drinking and smoking weed. It just wasn't as severe and as like physical, you know, the physical consequences of doing heroin and coke and speed that that catches up with you a lot more quickly, I think. Yeah, so let me ask you this, too. You're I think you're only a few years older than me. But I I look back and one of the reasons I got into, you know, my YouTube channel originally was all about mental health addiction recovery. And the reason I did that was to increase awareness and start educating people because when I got sober, education was a huge part. Learning about the science of addiction, learning about depression, learning about anxiety, but looking back at, you know, school like we had health class, right, but it was all physical health. Like we're a condom, don't get AIDS. Here's what cancer looks like. Don't get fat, you know, whatever. And I failed on that. But anyways, there was no there was no conversations about mental health at all. Right. Like before I even started drinking and using my personally, like looking back, I was struggling with depression. I was struggling with anxiety, right? Like when you when you're growing up in an alcoholic household, you're on alert 24 seven. So I was constantly anxious and everything. But I had no idea. But all I knew was once I took a drink or took a drug, it felt better, right? Because, you know, we we drink and use to get a feeling to get rid of a feeling or to just have this escape. So I guess my question for you was like, was there any conversations about the mental health aspect like was was there even anything around like saying like, hey, maybe you're trying to cope with things in an unhealthy way, aside from the like, this is your brain on drug ship that they put on now. I mean, I'm from the 90s. So it was all dare, you know, we grew up with dare middle school. And then it was just like, don't do drugs, you know, because you're a teenager and we dared you not to do drugs, which seems like a really bad way to try and get people to not do drugs, especially teenagers. And then I think that like, it's so different now. It's so different. I look at my nephews and they'll pull them in for counseling for frickin anything, like talk about mental health and the conversation, you know, socially around mental health is so much more just mainstream. It was not something that we talked about. It was it was not I when my parents got divorced. I think they made me go to a therapist and I just sat there like a teenager and was like, you know, surly and mad and didn't want to talk. And the first real exposure to anything like that was when I ended up in rehab and like a state funded halfway house. And they were it was a great program. And so we had group therapy. We had individual therapy. We had big whole entire house, you know, morning circle therapy. We had all kinds like they they had acupuncture people come in and give us free acupuncture, which was actually amazing. And they had all these kind of outside resources too, that I I just hadn't been exposed to any of that stuff, yoga, I think. And, you know, I was really just like a run of the mill average, very just basic suburban kid at that point. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's been interesting because one of the reasons I got into this because I was like, oh, I was never taught about this. So we need to start talking about this, but I'm curious because, you know, something that, you know, obviously that you talk about and you write about is kind of, you know, conversations around like cancel culture and speech and all this. And when I got canceled on YouTube, part of it felt like we swung really hard in the other direction where we're talking a little too much about depression and anxiety. Like when we see these conversations around speech, right? It's you can't talk about this. This makes me anxious. I've been traumatized and all that. So I'm wondering if you've noticed that and where do you think this balance is where we take mental health seriously? We talk about it, but no, somebody saying something isn't traumatizing. You know what I mean? So how do we find that balance in your opinion? I mean, that's been interesting to observe just the language of therapy taking over everything. And my husband remarks on this all the time as a therapist, you know, we were just listening to clubhouse and we were in a room and there it was, he's like, this is group therapy. What they're, you know, they're all talking in the language of therapy, like holding space, my trauma, that everything is a, like little T or big T trauma. And if everything is a trauma and nothing's really a trauma, it just, it's, it's a language. It's kind of taken over everything. And I do think mental health awareness is important, although what baffles me is for all of the lip service that we give it an attention that it gets, it doesn't seem to be getting better. People seem to be, I think even just the numbers show that the kids are more anxious, they're more depressed. They're on more medications, you know, everybody's on more medications top to bottom, generationally. And so if we're just talking about mental health awareness and nobody's actually improving, I'm, I'm very interested in what's that disconnect. Yeah, because, yeah, I mean, it's, it's like that, that idea that self knowledge avails us nothing. So awareness is great, but not so great if you're not actually doing anything about it. So if we're like, Hey, look how mentally ill everyone is. Anyway, let's keep doing the same stuff that is driving everyone insane and ourselves insane. Then I mean, I take it very seriously, but I also think that people take it to take themselves too seriously. So it's like a generation that's been taught to take themselves very seriously, which I think is a really bad message. It's just that I wasn't raised that way and I'm grateful that I wasn't because it's not, it's not a message of self reliance or resilience or like, I just always say what happened to like life isn't fair. Like, I don't understand what happened to that message, you know, it seems like generations of kids are like, Hey, life isn't fair. Deal with it. When a kid would come home and be like, mom, nana, nana, nana, and it's like life isn't fair. Get over it. And now it's like, what did he do? Oh my gosh, we're going to go need to talk to the mom. Let's go have a conversation. And you're teaching the kids like constantly appeal to authority and everyone's appealing to authority at all times everywhere. And this is bipartisan. You know, this is not like something I see more on one side or another as much as the right likes to try and paint it as a left wing issue. Like they're freaking constantly crying to mommy all the time and like, big government, fix the internet, you know, everybody's everybody seems to be looking outside of themselves to kind of fix them, whether that's in a substance or in a like authority or and that really has been the biggest shift. I've noticed from like greatest generation, my grandparents to even my parents, even Gen X to like millennials and beyond is this idea that the world owes us something. Yeah. And, you know, this is one of the many reasons I wanted to have you on it, because I think, you know, part of this too, like is, you know, a kind of ingrained this in me, right? They taught me about personal accountability and, hey, life isn't always fair and you need to get your shit together because kind of like what you were talking about, you know, we're talking about this problem. But why? Why aren't things getting better? They're getting worse. Yeah. Well, there's this thing that I noticed when my YouTube channel is primarily mental health. There's this this growing trend of here's my mental illness and now you have to deal with it rather than here's my mental illness. Now I have to work on it. It's like, hey, I have, you know, depression, I have anxiety, I have borderline personality disorder, whatever it is, here's what you need to know. So you can, you know, rearrange your life around me and a didn't teach me that, right? And then that aspect you talk about with, you know, not taking ourselves too seriously. I remember a taught me like it's like, what? Well, like rule 62, like don't take yourself so damn seriously. When I went into that program, I went, oh my God, when I got sober, I was depressed, I was miserable, I was pissed off. Right? I remember people telling their stories and laughing. I'm like, what the fuck is so funny, right? But as I sat there and I just shut up and listened, there was something empowering about being able to laugh at all the dumb, crazy, insane shit I did as a result of my addiction, right? And that helped me, you know, not take it so seriously to realize like, hey, this is an issue, but it doesn't have to define you in this serious negative way. And it almost feels like the coddling that we talk about has kind of done that, you know, appeal to authority and running and this kind of tattle tailing. And I can't take care of myself and I can't, you know, live in a world where people say things that I dislike. And you kind of noticed that as well. Yeah. And it's infected everything. You know, it just seems like it's, it's got worse. And this is when I really love going to other countries and particular like the developing world where they don't take themselves or their stuff as seriously. Life is a bit harder in the day to day. And so there isn't this extra time to sit around and like mentally masturbate. And mental illness isn't, you know, we've gone, like you said, the overcorrection from kind of hiding mental illness and being ashamed of it to now it's like some badge of pride and we seem to be glorifying it. And I'm like, there has to be a middle ground, you know, we don't need to be, there's a TikTok video going around just over the break that was a girl going through a family and it was like every dose of medication and there are all the diagnoses of everybody in the family and they were like making it all cute. And I was like, when did having to take prescription drugs because you have some kind of mental disorder become something that's like, no, we shouldn't be ashamed of it and people should get help. But when did it become something that's like, hey, look at us on TikTok where you almost are bragging about it. And there does seem to be that like you said on YouTube I mean, I can't imagine what it's like to have a mental health channel on YouTube which is not a bastion of mental health because I've gone down these weird rabbit holes just out of curiosity of like the kids who are giving, you know, have Tourette's and the people who are like switching personalities on like, these are teenagers doing this and they're getting like millions of views. We're rewarding mental illness. You know, that's why it's not getting better. It's being rewarded. I look at Twitter and I'm like, all these people are mentally ill. I know that I'm one of them. I know that I'm aware and I can't separate myself from the fact that you thrive on these platforms when you are mentally ill. You thrive on Instagram when you're a narcissist, you know, and it's like you thrive on, I think, Twitter when you're a borderline psychopath. It's not good. You know, it really does, it does incentivize and maybe that's why it's getting worse just because we're all of the stuff is online and our worst instincts and aspects are being incentivized. Yeah, yeah, incentives are what I'm thinking about all the time and, you know, quick, fun story. One of the many reasons I was canceled on YouTube was for calling out that switching personalities dissociative identity disorder and the performative aspect of it, right? Like, you know, I was, first off, I brought to light the studies where a lot of very credible researchers in psychiatry, like this isn't real, right? And, you know, for most of us, like I bring up the fact that if mental illness was something that you could do on demand, how great would that be? If I could just turn off my depression the way you can switch personalities to make this YouTube video. And it's actually blowing up on TikTok now. My girlfriend loves to troll me by just sending me these videos and I'm sitting there, right? But also to what you said, my girlfriend sent me a TikTok of this gal who was, she's like doing this kind of video and she's like, oh, I'm off my medications. Look, and her house is just trashed, right? And she has a ton of likes and all these things. And it's like, you know, there's a difference between not being ashamed of your mental illness and then glorifying it. Because something else I've seen because I, you know, I interview and I follow a lot of mental health authors is that when you make that part of your identity and it's being glorified, you don't really have the incentive to get better, right? If your paycheck is dependent on highlighting your mental illness, why are you gonna go to therapy? Why are you going to try to get better? Because then, since it's part of your brand, what's your incentive to get well? You know what I mean? Oh yeah, I see this. I mean, we were talking about this yesterday when we were going over the goals and stuff for FEDACY for the new year and the company and the business and whatever. And I've been pregnant, I've never felt like less motivated than I do this year. It's usually been just so ambitious and I wanna do all these things. And now I'm like, I just want a healthy baby. I wanna maintain. And I never meant to have my livelihood. I always wanted to be a creative, but I never meant for my livelihood to be dependent on like the news cycle, for instance. I don't know how Jon stored to the Daily Show for as long as he did it daily. I don't know. I mean, he must have become so deeply cynical on some level because there's nothing, at least he was making fun of it. And in the same way, like with dumpster fire, we get to make fun of it, but there's nothing aspirational. I find no inspiration or anything aspirational about the culture wars. And I get, I'm so bored with them. They're just, I find them tedious and I see how insane they're driving people and making people. They're destroying the fabric of society. It's destroying family systems. And I just don't want to have my livelihood tied to it. I'd rather, you know, I want to make people laugh. I want to empower people. I don't want to divide people and make them angry, even though it's kind of funny to make fun of all of it. So it's a weird balance. And it is that it's something that I've really been looking at where I'm like, is this good? Not only for me, but just for humanity. You know, is it good for, that's why my biggest goal this year is just to limit my time on Twitter. I see how it changes my brain. It makes me look at the world in a through a lens or like a factory setting that isn't true. It's just like a, it puts a filter on my experience of life that is not reality. It's, and I just don't think it's, I don't, I remember when I first was really getting into it, I could feel my brain changing and now my brain has changed and I don't even notice it. But I could feel myself thinking about things in, in like, oh, that would be a good tweet. That was like my first awareness. Like, this is weird. You know, the fact that I'm processing what's happening to me in my life as something that would be like a good tweet, which whatever we're creatives and artists, that's what you do. You take from the world and you regurgitate it, but there's nothing lasting about that. You know, Twitter is like crack in so many ways. So I've just really been evaluating how it's affecting my own mental health and how I wanna have that in my life moving forward. Yeah, yeah. And real quick, gonna pet your ego for a second. Like, I only recently got into your content probably like five, six months ago. I was like, who's this Bridget Gall? Everybody's talking about it. And once I started looking, I'm like, I'm like, she's got some, some values that she's actually, you know, trying to implement. And then I found out you're in recovery. I'm like, aha, right? And something that you said, I forgot who you were talking to. But you know, one of the reasons I wanted to have you on is because I feel like we see this different, see the world differently through the lens of recovery. But you said something along the lives of, like people accuse you of like both sides sometimes. And you're like, I'm just trying to stay sober, right? So like when you're talking about, you know, how you view social media and how you're trying to be self-aware, like, you know, we're taught early on in recovery, like our recovery has to be the top priority, right? And I do feel like it helps us view the world a little bit differently, use social media a little bit differently. We think about the consequences of the content we're creating for any of us who create content. But can you kind of break that down? Like with all of the culture wars and the polarization and just the craziness of the world, how have you been able to prioritize your recovery? Because for the average person, we could swap out recovery for just mental health and sanity, right? So how much effort or what do you try to do to ensure that that's your top priority above the money you're gonna make from like downloads or sponsorships and all that stuff? Because being controversial is a money-making machine these days. So how do you do it? I mean, I don't think I'm that controversial. You know, I still manage to fly under the radar and there are moments where there have been times where I know that I could have gone for the clickbait piece or, you know, said the clickbait thing. I don't, I'm not really, I'm like conflict averse. I don't like it. So I'm not necessarily seeking it out. I don't wanna like throw bombs just to throw bombs. I definitely, I know that being reactive is one of my biggest defects of character and one of the hardest things I had to overcome in early sobriety. So I'm hyper aware of how my body and mind might be responding, you know, when I'm feeling myself getting agitated when I'm on social media or some, even in a conversation, my default now is to pause. It's not to like lean in. You know, I see people who like ride their cancellations all the way to the fricking shore on their surfboard and they love it. They love the conflict. They love the fight. I didn't get into any of this. And I think when I, what I was talking about was like I was just trying to stay sober and the early years of me be going online and becoming like whatever this like media personality or whatever I am now, not something I set out to be in those early years of that time, I was so new to being like very online. I didn't go to college. I wasn't really, I was pretty apolitical. I was waiting tables. I was just trying to stay sober. And then I started writing for Playboy and I started, you know, saying things that I didn't know were controversial and then definitely went through like a reactive period. You know, when people, I think people accused me of being like a reactionary liberal and it's not entirely false. I was reacting to what I was seeing on what I perceived as my party and what I thought I grew up with and was something new and felt rejected by. And so there was definitely a part of me that was reacting to it. But meanwhile, this was against the backdrop of trying to stay sober and always I filtered kind of everything through the 12 steps. Like I filtered Trump through the 12 steps. I filtered everything through that and it does become like second nature where it's like, okay, what am I? Yes, I'm conscious. I try to be conscious of the content that I make. I also know I can't be responsible for the way every person interprets it. That's not my responsibility. They might try and tell me that it's my responsibility but it's not like that idea of how you feel about me as none of my business is very true. And so I try to, I mean, I do better at it sometimes than others. You know, right now I would say I'm really connected to women and like the female tribe around me is super strong virtually and in my real life and with my sisters. And that's more what I need more than even the program. But I'll be honest, I've been having a hard time in the meetings just because so much of the culture war has crept into 12 step. And I understand, again, I'm aware enough to know like this is a me problem. I logged in the other day and I'm in Los Angeles. So everybody assumes everybody around them thinks alike and there's just a massive amount of group thinking people who like haven't clearly left LA in two years. And one of the people was talking about powerlessness and the story that they were kind of relaying in regards that was like about someone not wearing their mask the right way in a store. And I was like, I'm out, like I just left a meeting. And part of it is because I live and breathe this. You know, it's like part of what I, and so I don't wanna hear more of that when I go to a meeting. And this would be an outside issue if it wasn't in LA because it's just taken for granted that everybody agrees with you. But if you went to Nashville, they'd be like, get fucked. Like don't bring that shit in here. It's like a political thing, you know? Yeah, it's been so interesting, especially with the pandemic, because at the beginning, I don't know about in LA, but in Vegas all the meetings, boo, shut down. I had to do like online meetings. And then like I figured like, you know, especially after that, I think it was after the vaccines rolled out. I'm like, oh, I wonder if they're reopening. So I went over to like my meeting down the street and it was reopened. And I've been keeping an eye. So it's interesting that you've brought into that. I've been keeping an eye because like, they'll be like half the people wearing masks at a meeting, the other half, not I'm like, oh, damn, it's some shit about to go down. And it just hasn't trickled into the meetings I've been into, you know? And me personally, since I'm conflict-averse as well, like I try to like just eye it. I, funny story, I actually sit outside of the meeting and I see how many people are wearing masks going in to see what I should be doing, right? Like, oh, is this like mask or maskless or whatever? But yeah, like 12 step meetings are definitely a place I go to to get away from all of that. And, you know, one thing I wanted to ask you about 12 step meetings, I don't know if you've run into this, but as somebody who also goes to these meetings, I don't know if you've noticed or seen or read or heard about kind of the demonization of 12 step meetings, right? Oh, God, yeah. Okay, okay. So I'm curious because one of the things I enjoy about your content is you, like I identify like, you know, you started out waitressing and now you have like a successful podcast and stuff. And I feel like a lot of people, like we both had, you know, Bacha on our podcast and she talks a lot about the elites and that educated and everything. And I feel like there's so much of that, right? But anyways, when I see people demonizing 12 step programs, like I read a lot of books and I try to read books by people I disagree with and they're like, hey, 12 step programs don't work. You need evidence-based therapy by going into treatment or they have like a transcranial magnetic stimulation and that's like hundreds of dollars per session and stuff. And I'm like, are you fucking insane? Like, how dare you demonize a free program? Because when I got sober, I had no insurance, no money, no anything. And if it wasn't for free 12 step programs, I'd probably be dead. Well, yeah, nothing really pisses me off more than like Silicon Valley bros telling me how I should get sober. I'm like, you're fucking rich and like experimenting with ayahuasca and like micro dosing ketamine isn't gonna work for me. You know, like that I know that and I don't have the resources to do that. And most people don't and you're not necessarily coming from rock bottom, like a place of rock bottom, you're coming from like the top of your field looking down on people telling them like, oh, this is the science-based way you should be getting sober and you're like, bro, have you ever stuck dick for money? You know, like most of the people that you're trying to like tell to do something are in a different like space than you are right now with your fucking like flotation tanks. And it drives me crazy. Like that's one aspect that I just, it does feel like an elite sensibility being like talking about treatment. The other thing is and I have had like, I love Johann Hari, but he's not anti-12 step necessarily, but seems to be like, oh, this, you know, it's really like the way that we view addiction is wrong. And really you just need like love and support in a community. And I don't know. I again, ask these people like, have you ever been an addict? Yeah. You know, and it's like people asking you like, could you just have one drink? It's like, don't you think I fucking tried that? Yeah. I don't know if we can swear on here. You can cuss all the time. Don't you think I tried that along the way? You know, like, did it occur to you that maybe that was something I attempted at some point? Yeah. And so yeah, he seemed like that's my question to you when you were saying that you've studied a lot of the science, how do you kind of balance that, the new science around addiction? Cause I've read all the science and I, not all of it, but I've read much of it. I've tried to stay up on it. I think there, I always tell people like recovery, abstinence is not the only way for some people. I know plenty of people who can just smoke weed and not drink and like, that's enough for them. Harm reduction is great, you know, that this helps a lot of people getting someone off meth and allowing people like, oh, they're still smoking cigarettes. I'm like, well, they're not smoking meth. So why don't we like calm down? So these are things that are important. And I think that like, obviously nobody knew shit about addiction when they wrote the 12 steps. It was like 1938, you know? There's, and I tell people this when I sponsor women, I'm like, AA is not trauma informed. They did not have a word for PTSD when they wrote this book. It did not exist. Yeah. Like these guys came back from the war and they were like, you're just a little shell shocked, you know? So yeah, it's, you know, as far as the science goes, like one thing that I don't think we have nearly, I don't even know if we have any research on it because being here in Vegas, I know a lot of addicts. I've met people and you might have, yeah, just a couple, but you might have met these people too. Someone who had like an insane heroin addiction, but now they can drink normally. Like they're not fucking up their lives. They can stop, they can, you know, whatever, or meth and now they smoke weed. I don't think there's any research around like how we're drawn to specific substances. But, you know, like in the big book, it talks about like the real alcoholic and stuff like that. I've tried everything. Like, you know, I was a chronic relapser and there was many times where I'm like, well weed was never my problem. I'll try weed, but days after doing weed, I'd be calling my dealer to get pills, you know? So for me, it's always a gateway back to what I actually want because my brain says, if you're gonna get fucked up, at least do what you want. Which- Yeah, don't be like, be a man about it. Yeah, yeah, I remember when I was working in treatment, when like heroin addicts were like relapsed on, you know, like Salvia or like marijuana. I'm like, at least just do it, just go all out, you know what I mean? Because I, you know, I've seen like people who have been able to do that, but most people who end up in like a treatment center who have hit that rock bottom, they're people like me where I have to stay absent where harm reduction just isn't an option for me. But the science out there is saying that, you know, that addiction aspect isn't a disease, right? That's where the controversy comes in. But for me, this thing's life and death. And I've been to, I've been to enough meetings to see people who had, you've probably run into this too, people with 20, 30 years sobriety, 10 years sobriety, they had one drink and they just flew off the rails, right? And my life is so great now. Like I got sober when my son was three, right? So he doesn't remember me being an addict. I can't imagine, I can't imagine getting into a place where I'm like, well, the science says that I should be able to have one drink now since I've been like, I don't even want to risk that shit. You know what I mean? So that's kind of how I balanced the science with my personal recovery is I know me, I knew where it took me. And that's why it's important to me to have all these other tools where just drinking, like, I don't need that way to relax. Like I can go fucking zone out and watch Netflix now. I could talk to my therapist. I could talk to my support group. I don't need that thing. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's, it's interesting too because the, the science around it, I mean, it's weird that it's been, you know, I've seen it again. This was another meeting where I was like, man, this shit's infecting everything. Like this one woman was sitting on a balcony, like in Mexico in this Zoom meeting and she was a speaker, but she was like a white chick, not that it mattered, but of course. And she was like, you know, we need to do better in AA. And we need to 70% of the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous in America are white and we need to do better. I'm like, do you even fucking hear yourself? Are you listening to yourself? What you're saying is we need more addicts of color. Like that's literally what you're saying. And you think you're saying something else. Like we need to make it more inclusive. America is 70% white, like white. Statistically that that's what the meeting should represent. You know, it's good that they're not more, have you been to an NA meeting by the way? Cause it's also completely different. Oh yeah, for sure. Breakdown in an NA meeting. So I was just sitting there like my blood was boiling and my friends who know that I'm like a safe space for them to say anything to in the meetings or texting me and they were like, I'm tired of Rachel Maddow. Exactly. But I was like, this shit is everywhere. Like, can you imagine telling someone, some like meth head about his privilege? Like that, that's not gonna fucking work. It just doesn't work. And that whole idea that, but again, like this idea that these 12 steps were patriarchal and like it was all white men who beat their wives. Like, yeah. Was that like the whole topic of her like speaking? It was weird because it was on one of the, I think she got away with it because it was, it was on one of the, not one of the steps, it was on one of the traditions. And so she managed to, it could be a little more political because the traditions are generally more the, like we centered around like the group. That's how they go away with it. Yeah. And so it felt very sneaky to like use that as kind of her, her like, I just, I was so mad when I left that meeting. And so now I'm like every, when that starts happening, I'm like, this is not good for me. There are hundreds of thousands of other meetings, just log out and like go find another one, go somewhere else. You don't need to like sit here and get mad. Yeah. You know, like when it comes to even that topic, right? So like I'm half black. So I think about these things. And when I was working in a rehab, I did notice that, hey, there's like, I worked there for three years and probably less than 20 black people came through, right? And I'm like, huh, I'm curious. But for example, I had John McWater on to talk about his new book, World Racism. And something that he talks about in his book, which is often missing from the conversation, is the culture in black communities, right? Right, right. And unless we address that, like when you're around people who say that you're a bitch for not smoking with them or that you're not gonna drink with them or something like that, we have to address that. But when we just look at it as, oh, people aren't coming because we're just white and racist and patriarchal or whatever it is, right? It's like you're not getting to the root of the issue and we need to start fixing to communities because that conversation ends up going into like education because being smart is sometimes looked at as acting white. That needs to be addressed within a community, you know what I mean? And definitely I saw it even in like the reverse of this of like being in this Beverly Hills meeting that I used to go to and it was a women's meeting and the women would be sharing and there were maybe like three or four black women who attended regularly. And the women would be sharing some story about like, and then I got pulled over and I don't know why, but the cop just was like, okay, go home and you can see the black women just rolling their eyes, you know? Like, gee, I wonder why you got let go. So like this is where it is like white privilege is real. You probably thought it was their higher power, huh? Yeah, they're like, oh, it was just like, you know, God looking out for me and it's like, you can see I was just like laugh, like, you know, all the black women like put cross their arms and roll their eyes like, oh yeah, another white chick has no idea why she didn't get arrested. So that stuff, you know, it's not like it doesn't exist and it's not something you can't evaluate, think about, talk about and have conversations about. I just don't think that those meetings are the place to do that. People are going there to get sober. That's like what, you know, we, I tried everything. I think part of the reason that I'm kind of like, oh, the science is, I had a real issue with AA being called like alcoholism being treated like a disease. And I'm still like a disease. One of my favorite sub parks ever is the one where they're like, stand, I have a disease and they're making fun of me. And he's like, get daddy a drink. And he's trying to like get in front of the people with cancer at the line to like touch the Virgin Mary cause he's got a disease. Like they go after it. And that whole idea, I think it is like, if you have an actual disease that you don't have any, because somewhere in between, and this is what I've always wrestled with, somewhere in between like drinking and picking up that, there's a decision you're making. And so it's like the disease lack of self control. Maybe, maybe they haven't found that yet. I don't know. So that was something I struggled with when I was 19 and in rehab. I was like, the disease, is it really like a science proven this is a disease? Well, let me ask you this. And I read all the books, like all of them, when I was like 20, like the cases against the AA. So I was very skeptical of the program and it drove me out of the program and I was out for 15 years and unlucky I made it back. Now, like you said, I've seen so many people, like I've seen so many things where I'm like, like what the fuck, how could you just like throw that it's gotta be, there's something. I mean, I can't drink normally. You know, once I start drinking, I cannot drink normally. My cousin can have one say, I'm going to have one drink and that will be the case. Yeah, which is crazy to us. And I can't, I like literally cannot. I have tried and tried and tried and I don't know what that is. I mean, it is life or death for me, but there has to be some other disease. What do you think about? Here's my, the one highlight. In the doctor's opinion, in the big book, he relates it to an allergy. Yeah, I like that. I like that one better because for example, if I had a peanut allergy, yes, I can make a conscious decision whether or not I'm going to have those peanuts but the way my body reacts to it is a little bit differently because something happens to me like, you know, A, A taught me and I recognize just looking at the time and time and time again. Once I pick up one, I don't know what happens, but I can't stop. There's no limit for me. You know what I mean? The insanity though is the mental obsession. Like that's really what I've become more fascinated with over time because it is true once you get over the physical addiction, you know that it's like say, that's, you know, my sponsor said it to me that way too. Like think of it as like an allergy which made sense to me. She's like, you know, like you're allergic to shellfish. I'm like, yeah, except if I was allergic to shellfish, I wouldn't be seeking out shellfish and eating as much fucking shellfish as I could, which is what you do with this weird allergy. So I don't have any control over the way I respond once I ingest whatever substance, but the mental obsession to like seek it out in spite of being allergic to it almost seems like part of the allergy itself. You know, like that fixation. Because that'll last, that's really what you're treating once you get past two weeks or so variety. You're treating like that mentalism. Yeah, there was a great book from Dr. Judson Brewer. It's called The Craving Mind. And that's what I learned about behaviorism and like the upskinner and stuff. And that's where I kind of looked at like the science aspect of that obsession. Like I spent, you know, years where every time I felt depressed, I had a drink. Every time I felt anxious, I had, you know, I snorted something whenever, you know? So I trained my brain. So whenever that trigger happened, like what he talks about is trigger behavior reward. That's where that obsession came in. So I feel like- Yeah, they're just neural pathways. Yeah, right? And they're deep. So like over time, it feels like that has gone. Like we were talking about a little bit earlier about those cravings and that obsession. But here's my question for you. Like I've said this to you on Twitter a few times. Like when you upload your shit, you upload it everywhere and stuff. And like you're a workhorse. So what I found in my recovery is like, wait, because they told me when I got sober, they're like, hey, if you take half the effort that you were putting into your addiction and you put it into recovery, you'll be fine, right? And I was like, oh, well, the shit I did just to find some alcohol or drugs was insane. So yeah, but when it comes to your work ethic, do you think you've been able to redirect some of that obsessive energy and does it ever go too far where you're just like become this workhorse and do you have to rein it in? Yeah, it's great that I'm in a relationship with a therapist and a man of recovery. You know, we can, we have a lot of, we're starting a podcast together because so much of our conversation he works in the industry in addiction and now and so many people reach out to me and so we have so many conversations about this and the way that I managed this really from the beginning before I even knew what I was necessarily doing, I just know that I can't be too focused on results. I cannot get, I put, I offload that to other people. I'm like, you can look at the analytics mag, you can look at the numbers, the downloads. It's just not good for me because that really will trigger my addict, like chasing numbers. You know, when I put things, when it's the, basically the results of my work, if I stay, I have to stay really clearly in the work and then let it go. Like I can't be looking at like, oh, this new dumpster fire and generally I'm too busy to even pay attention to any of that stuff and I don't pay attention. I think too, it's just been more time and again, like reps. I don't, I'm not as attached maybe to like the numbers of followers or any of those things as I was maybe in earlier sobriety when Twitter like truly replaced my addiction. I found Twitter in 2013 that was the year I got sober. It was not really an accident. So I think I was chasing the high a lot more and pretty consciously. And that was really my harm reduction. And now it feels like a necessary tool in my work but it can, I don't want it to be an outsized role. You know, I feel like I've spent, it's been good. I've made a lot of friends and relationships and podcasts and I can see a lot of good from it. But overall, I think it's, I mean, it's definitely the reason I haven't written my book yet. You know, and that is like a thing of a source of shame that I live with every single day that I haven't written my book. And I know that a lot of it is just like squandering time on Twitter in particular. So I see how it can be in the one aspect, Twitter has kind of given me wings and it's built, helped me build relationships with editors and with people for the podcast and so many things. But in another respect, I see that it's robbed me of time that I should have been spending, like you said, when it goes too far, I use it to procrastinate from actual writing. Yeah, yeah, that's definitely something I can relate to. Like I'm trying to write my next book and stuff and I get sidetracked and obsessed on things. Like my brain locks in on like a topic and like lately I've been doing sub-stack pieces or write something for Newsweek or something like that and it's taking away from these other priorities. So if you need a writing accountability buddy in 2022, we'll keep you in touch on lockdown. But let me ask you just a couple more questions before I let you go, Bridget. So one of the things, you cover a lot of these issues where like the elites are kind of disconnected from this reality, right? And we just had the record number of overdose deaths, obviously the pandemic played a role, but it drives me nuts when they're like, oh, the pandemic is affecting mental health. I'm like, bitch, we've had these rates rising for the last 20 years, it's not just the pandemic. The overdose numbers have been escalating, you know? And they're like, oh well. Progressively. Yeah, you know, so I'm curious your thoughts when you look at the world, where do you think a lot of this pain and the suffering is coming from? Is it from, you know, just being poor, being stressed, the polarization, is it everything? You know what I mean? Like what do you think is this primary source where these numbers are keeping, you know, going the wrong direction? I mean, if I had to say my gut instinct is isolation, you know, I think it's a combination of many factors. Many people want to blame like late stage capitalism. Many people want to blame the breakdown of the like nuclear family. Many people, depending on what your politics are, these people get weaponized, depending on who needs to weaponize them that week, this population, I do think it really seems like the most pervasive statistic that I find compelling and over the years has also gotten worse is that when they pull people to ask them how many friends they have that could come help them or how many people, it's now something like zero, you know, that's the mean or the average and that to me and the fact that these addiction is rising, those things I think really definitely do go hand in hand. They say like, alcoholism is a disease of loneliness and if I've learned anything from being online and having my fantasy community and having so many interactions of people on Patreon early in 2015, 2016, is that there are a lot of really lonely people and I think when you feel alone in the world, it can make you feel desperate and hopeless and all of these and then your only source of knowledge, you know, the only voice you're hearing is your own and so there's not as many community ties to talk you down off the ledge or to make you feel connected and I do think that that, you know, in some ways technology has disconnected us is even though it seems counterintuitive is true and then you have the pandemic which did actually isolate everyone and then it's not that it's not something that was already something that was already increasing but it aggravated, like you said, all of these things that were already poverty definitely, you know, the sense that there's like a general lack of meaning too, I think, just in, which is why people are putting all their meaning in like what their belief around vaccines or Trump or like we've just, we've ended up and this is not healthy for us, you know? And I agree, like I think the fact that it's a, I just get mad at anyone who like shits on such a free program that yeah, you can look at the rates of addiction, like, okay, they're freaking horrible and you and I are the rarity. And that's what I was, you know, when I was, when I talked to my husband about like how he deals with it when clients relapse or whatever, he's like, that's the norm, then the rare thing is for anyone to get sober and to stay sober. And it doesn't matter whether it's abstinence or, you know, any of these other programs who's to say that, I mean, think of how many lives, AA is 12 step, any of the 12 steps have changed for the better. And still I think that it's better than fricking nothing. I know people who have, I've seen people like turn their life around in that program. We are talking rock bottom, like the worst stories, like killed people in blackouts, ended up in prison, just horrific stuff that you would think siblings murdered, just things you would think nobody would ever be able to get over. And I've watched the group carry them through it and them stay sober for decades. And that is, that's miraculous, you know, I can look around and say all of these people are miracles because it's not the norm. And I think when you took that away too, because you need that, that is the thing about in-person meetings is you have that accountability. Like someone's gonna be like, hey, where's Chris? He hasn't been here in like a few weeks, somebody check on him and somebody's gonna hopefully text you if you go to those regular meetings and you're around. And when you don't have that in-face thing, no one's really noticing that you're not checking into a Zoom meeting. Yeah, yeah. And that's, you know, that's definitely something I miss about working in treatment. It was a pretty big treatment center here in Vegas, but yeah, over just a course of three years, I had like 80 clients die from overdose or suicide, you know, whatever it was. But there were so many stories. Like when you see someone turn their life around, like I don't even look at my story anymore, but when I look at other people, I'm like, holy shit. Like that is crazy, right? So to crap on a program, like that'll do that. But yeah. But that's like crapping on religion. That's why I don't like, it just, it's like, why, who are you to like, pull the life raft out from anybody? You know, if that's working for somebody, and I was that girl, I was the girl that was like anti-AAA when I got, when I read all my books and got out of it and I would crap on people who needed it. And I thought that they were weak and that it was fear-based and I had a whole case against it. So I think I know that voice and that person well because I was that person. And what is it that like we mock what we will become? You know, it's like you inevitably, every time I make fun of something, I'm like, I've probably become a vegan at some point in my life, just cause I've made so much fun of vegans. I'm sure it's somewhere down the line. Like it's just something that it's, it seems to be a pattern of something and or we mock what we want or something. Yeah. Well, hey, I am that person cause I was a former meat lover. I'm not vegan, but I've been vegetarian because my damn girlfriend gave me into it. So when you make that switch, I can give you some good recipes. But, you know, let's end this thing on a happy note, right? Because I think you hit the nail on the head too with that loneliness and isolation, right? The lack of meaning. Like when I do look at that, is it any wonder that people join like QAnon when you feel like, you know what I mean? Like it makes sense when you find these things that give you meaning or a community because we're also disconnected. So Bridget, everybody listening and they're like, this Bridget lady knows what she's talking about. What do you think some of the solutions are for this loneliness, this isolation, this meaning? How much is it on us as the individual and how much is on the community to reach out? And, you know, or what can we do to get in the right direction? I mean, I think it's on us, ultimately, you know? And that's the other thing you learn when you're around enough addicts for long enough is that you're not gonna force anyone to do something. You're just not. That's why it's so funny to me with like, even again, like all the vaccine stuff. And I am interested to know and you keep, you said it a couple of times, like we differ in the respect that we, what is the way that you feel like you differ from me and looking at the world through AA? Or through 12 step or whatever the program? Well, yeah, for sure. Like what you said, like, you can't force people to do anything. Like the more people told me what I had to do, like that made me just wanna do the opposite, right? But also what I've been thinking about too lately, when it comes to vaccines, I think vaccines are a great example. Think about how many beliefs we had to change by hitting rock bottom, right? I had to change the belief that alcohol and drugs were the solution to all my problems, but it took rock bottom. And what you have to hope with addicts is that it's not death, right? So I've been thinking about that in relation with COVID. You have to hope that someone doesn't reach the point of dying from COVID before they change their mind. But I empathize because I understand how hard it is to change a deeply held belief, you know what I mean? Right, right. Yeah, I totally get it. And I also think that what I've learned is it had to, I had to be the driver. Like the thing that saved me the most, I think in early recovery in particular, I knew that not doing something wouldn't be enough to keep me sober long-term. It couldn't just be the negative. It couldn't just be like, I can't drink, I can't smoke, I can't touch anything forever. There needed to be something higher that I was aspiring to to keep that balanced. I mean, I knew that was true, but that couldn't be what I built my whole life around because it felt too negative to me. And really it was just a curiosity for me of like who I was without that. You know, who am I? What does my life look like in 10 years with no substances? I know what it looks like after 20 years of substances. I've seen this, 20 plus years. But what does it look like after five, after 10? And that curiosity and kind of excitement was enough to keep me going on times when just the negative, like don't do that wasn't enough. I had to be like, there had to be something I was striving for. And I did find a lot of meaning and do find a lot of meaning in helping other people. I just got a lot out of that. Being of service is truly, you know, gratitude service. Gratitude is such an easy place to go to and any moment for me now that I feel immediately gives me a better perspective. It's just a perspective shifter, gratitude. It's not some magic formula. It's really just taking a moment to get outside of yourself and look at what is good in your life. And that in rock bottom is not easy but there's still things even in rock bottom. And being of service was very helpful. And you know, as they mentioned, even when you had like 90 days and still felt like crap and uncomfortable in your skin and like early sobriety is a shit show. It is a shit. It's the hardest thing I've ever done and it's the best thing I've ever done but it is a shit show. And I tell people I'm like, don't get sober. Don't do it unless you fricking have to do it because the only way you're gonna do it is if you have to do it because it is a shit show and it's uncomfortable and it's hard and that but then they did say, you know you'll be somebody will be in the room and they'll have three days and you'll have seven or somebody will be in the room and they'll have you'll have 90 days and they'll have 30 and that you'll have something to offer and they'll have something to offer you even at 30 days and that I found to be really true and just showing up and being accountable like having to like get coffee and do these stupid little things. It was, you know, being humbled like that was really important to me because you're such like a big shot loser when you come in. It's so weird. Yeah. Yeah. I remember people saying like you simultaneously feel like you're the shit and a piece of shit at the same time. Yeah, it's really dysfunctional. But yeah, I 1000% agree. Like I often think about how much better the world would be if it just adapted that service mindset of 12 step programs. Like something I've mentioned, you know to you on Twitter that I loved your conversation with Andrew Yang was like just about financial literacy. I always think about like what if somebody who was financially illiterate just trying to help somebody who wasn't they taught him about saving, investing and if we started doing that more and more then that builds the community aspect. People stop feeling so lonely because you have this kind of mentor not a sponsor, but a mentor. But I think there's so much where, you know when we stop being so polarized over stupid bullshit which gratitude helps me with. Right. I'm like, this doesn't matter. Like I was dying. Why do I care about the culture world bullshit? You know what I mean? Yeah. But yeah, I 1000% agree. I think there's definitely some ideas from 12 step programs that would help a little bit. But yeah. Yeah. And like I say, it's not everything, you know I in the AA like 12 step was aware of that even in saying you need outside help. But like I I'll have women that I sponsor and they'll come to me with their fourth step and it's like, okay, this whole section right here this is coming up like go take that to like get a therapist, you know it's above my pay grade and it's trauma and this program is not trauma informed and I think old timers forget that and sometimes like this whole like neck up don't take any, you know, the anti prescription meds like that drives me crazy and 12 step where I'm like, you're not a fucking doctor. You're an addict who's been sober for like 15 years and you think you know something but this is you'll get people killed telling them stuff like that. There's a lot of suicide in recovery. Like even I've known it's freaking hard, you know you're left with your own mind and that is not that was really the most shocking thing to me when I got sober was how insane I am. Like just how I thought it was the drugs and alcohol and then I take that away and then I don't know what I was expecting like I'd just be some like just perfectly functioning you know, form of clay that was like walking through the world easily but it's really, it was wild to see and still see that whack-a-mole aspect of addiction where you're constantly kind of like, oh and it's sneaky and it gets sneakier the longer you're sober. Yeah, I think we can all do good to just be self aware that we're all a little bit nuts. Like I just, you know I'm like nine and a half years sober now and I still things pop up in my mind I'm like, Chris, you're still a little wacky but that's why, you know my mental health is like my top priority along the way. But Bridget, I could keep you here for five more hours but I won't, so. We'll just do it again. Yeah, we will. Maybe after the baby we can catch up and all that kind of stuff, you know. That would be great. So for my five audience members who don't know who you are, where can they find you? Where can they keep up to date and all that kind of good stuff? I'm Bridget Fetacy on all social media primarily I'm on Twitter although not even really there that often lately but everything that I, you can find anything of mine that I post, I try and post it so people can find it through various outlets. I have a subscriber site at fetacy.com and it's, we put a lot of content behind the paywall and mostly it's just become a community and it's been amazing. Like that surprised even me. That's really something that I think in 2020 and 2021 I underestimated like the importance of community building and it's always a word that the idea is always really community building. It sounds like something activists do. And it really is important. I've seen these people get together in real life and we have Zoom workouts and we do goals together and I try to keep it very much in line with my values like one of our rules is our number one rule is don't be a dick and one of our other rules is just like try to focus on what we're for instead of what we're against and that's hard. It's hard to do now because it's easy to define yourself about what you're against. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, those are the main places. Yeah, you can subscribe to me on YouTube and Rumble. I think the channel is Fetacy and yeah, that's it. Yeah, you're like a million places. So I'll do my best to link as many of them as possible. Yeah, I have a podcast, walk-ins, welcome. I have another one, Dumpster Fire. I'm all over the place. I just feel like just go be creative, go make something. Absolutely, Bridget, thank you so much. It's been a while that we've been trying to schedule this so I really appreciate it. I know, thank you so much. Hopefully we'll do it again sometime. We will.