 Good afternoon everybody Tom Stewart here. I'm with Liz Trotter and our shot our guest today is Sean day coming at you from Some parts in Ohio Northeast that'll cover everything Northeast Ohio Sean. How in the heck are you? I'm doing really really well really well We're just getting through all those holidays and now we're we're ready Ready for the gun to go off so we can get spritzing in here. I think that's already gone off. It's happening Yeah, so I think it's awesome that you're we were saying before we came live that you guys basically take a month and a half off before January so that you can hit the hit the ground running there Yeah, I mean I know damn my god He's hot and fishing and messing around and all that stuff. I'm working hard. I'm working. Yeah, they're every day Somebody has to take care Oh To you too, Denise. Hey, is that is that what language? Is that like hello in some foreign language? She's never letting living that down, you know, you're never living that hit down there, Denise. Yeah, I Told Tom to Denise so that you're aware I told him make sure that he does not go out and buy a new year's hat because you all Did But I'm on my own for my 80s costume for QDS. Yes. Are you gonna be at QDS, Sean? I Don't know. I've got like eight events. We're going to I I don't think so. I don't think so. We I think we went Martha's thing last year or two years So I don't know last year year before a couple years ago. Yeah, I think last year was in Yeah, I didn't go to Mexico. I didn't either. I would remember that Yeah, I would too. So okay, so I saw you the year before Well, I was thinking if you're going, you know, you have to have an 80s costume. So I've got plenty of those Like Tom the og right 80s were great Yeah, I don't have 80s clothes I'm one of those people that cleans out my closet every three to six months and I get rid of everything Yeah, I don't I I don't have I might have on my wedding gown me And I'm showing up in that All right, so Tom, do you have the Process flow Is there anything going on with COVID y'all right now, I know a lot of people have it. Yeah But I haven't heard any anything new or different have you Tom No, I mean, I guess the big thing and you know the last week the CDC Basically is relaxing its guidance in terms of what people are supposed to do if they get it, you know if you have COVID You know stay home for five days and you know if you can walk after that don't even bother taking a test Just get yourself back to work is kind of I'm being a little bit sarcastic, but it looks like at They're airing on the side of trying to get people back to work where before it was airing on the side of caution Yeah, I think they're airing on the side of let's keep the planes in the sky In the hospitals are getting to the point where they don't have enough caregivers I mean this is you know before we were talking about not having enough beds And that's kind of an issue, but we don't have enough people to do the things that need to do for the beds that they have Yeah, yeah, if you think back it was all about we we don't even have PPE We don't have masks for our first responders and all that sort of thing and you know We didn't we didn't have anything ventilators and all those sort of things Right and now it's through the roof again, but those aren't the headlines We just don't have bodies human beings to go to care of people. It's it's it's frantic a little bit. Yeah Yeah, it's not good. Well, and it's not even like COVID patients. They just don't have people to handle like every day illnesses That are out there There's a lot of I know a lot of our answers and my sister-in-law is in works for the Cleveland Clinic and they're just it There's a lot of burnout. I mean what you think there's burnout cleaning houses and scrubbing toilets There's a lot of burnout in the healthcare industry right now. I posted a great article last week I think about burnout in the cleaning profit builders group and Yeah, you should if you're not in that group join it cleaning profit builders great article It was short very short quick read maybe a minute long About burnout and I was like, ah, this really really spoke to me and how to How to manage what the problem really is a lot of times we're thinking that burnout is something else anyway We should probably talk about KPIs and that's our our topic We can talk about that. We got plenty of time to talk about that I'm uh, what am I doing here? In six days stream yard will lose access to your link in account It's all good Okay, where's your where's your article? That looks like are you on the page tom or is that the group? I think so manage page cleaning profit builders. It's in our group I'm not in your group. So never mind Yes, you are Okay, well Oh, no, what is that fancy thing? Yeah, okay I have I was joking This is the profit this is I mean, I guess this was originally we we We used this in in foundations for for years as a process flow chart for Any cleaning business any house cleaning business that You need to find people who want to clean homes. You got to Evaluate and hire some of them. You got to train them. So basically you got to find people to clean homes and here you have to Market and advertise and find people who want their homes clean and you got to sell them And then you got to keep them happy and you got some other stuff down here equipment and blah blah blah But you take the home the people who want to clean homes and the homes that need to be cleaned And you mix them up here and schedule and dispatch and clean and it's really an easy business So people though, doesn't it How about simple tom versus simple simple business pretty straightforward So each one of these boxes is a process and this is the like the service delivery process This is the meat and potatoes everybody's business There's support processes down here below the line that you know, we need to be mindful of you need to you know Be doing your accounting your payroll Your technology yada yada yada But for the most part we focus a lot on the actual service delivery And for the month of january, we're breaking down key processes out of this process flow We want to talk about the kpis associated with the whole You know deming's idea if you can't measure it you can't manage it and You know, we talk about kpis. I don't want to say every january because we haven't been doing this for a bunch of januaries But last year dog on it. We talked about kpis and we're talking about them again this year And Today, you know, shan's going to be leading us through the kpis associated with the recruiting process because shan is very much a Subject matter expert on the matter because he basically helps other cleaning businesses do their recruiting through uh blue skies administrative services anything I'll drop the link to this in chat You guys do a ton of recruiting don't you shan Say that again. You guys do a ton of recruiting for a lot of people. We sure do. We sure do. We've uh, we do it For our own locations our own operations. We own some cleaning companies And for example in our minneapolis minnesota cleaning company alone. We hired 45 people last year So that's an awful lot of recruiting at just one location And we also have um hundreds of clients in the cleaning industry that we recruit for as well So that's a lot of recruiting Yeah, and and you guys do a lot of work in the broader Context of cleaning. It doesn't have to be just specifically house clean You do a lot of work with house cleaning companies. I know But if you're in a window cleaning carpet cleaning, I mean you guys kind of cover the gamut, don't you? We do we do. It's exterior cleaning I owned a residential home cleaning company for over 20 years in northeast ohio We had about 42 cleaning tax when I when I uh sold it off the blue sky services But we do all the things you mentioned tom But we really don't step outside of that industry. I mean we just love the home service industry the majority of our clients are Cleaning industry we do a lot of lawn care But most of them most of them are in some sort of showing up to a home or an office and cleaning it Whether it's the inside of it or the outside of it and that's that's our niche. That's what we love Very good So is it important to measure the outcomes of your recruiting efforts? Is that something that you're the people you work with is that even part of the discussion? It is internally for us. We haven't really done a lot with our external clients As far as providing reporting to them. We're in the midst of doing those things, but we do have kpis that we track And I can touch on a few of those One of the big ones and let me let me step back for a second I'm very big in the belief that marketing and sales And recruiting are very aligned one spectrum We have this thing called a client and on the other spectrum We have this thing called an employee and we go we have the start of it all and we race to get to those the end of that spectrum, right? and So with that said one of the big kpis I would assume that you've gone over or will go over is client acquisition cost Right, we want to know what it costs to get get an employee as well And so we break it down very much the same as marketing is home advisor working or is it not? We need to track that stuff because why on earth do we want to spend more money there if it's not working Same thing with recruiting is indeed working or isn't it working? And then you know as you both know when you're tracking things there can be a lot of deceptive things that you You look at and think one thing and then you start letting your mind decide Instead of letting numbers and tracking and unemotional things decide those things because we all hate indeed So we don't want to spend any more money there than we have to Right so so We need them and that and that's just it and and it's um, you know One of the biggest things that I I tell people is it's you've really got a boost in sponsor for the most part nowadays We're six seven eight years ago. You didn't have to Um, you know for the most part we can get 700 applications and and not spend a dime getting that at one point That's not true today So so you really want to track your dollars more than ever Because there's so much more boosting and sponsoring and it costs so much more to find a good employee than it did five or six or seven years ago So talk to us about some of these kpi's like, um, you just said it costs so much more now than it did five six seven years ago What kind of numbers are we talking about shon? What are you seeing? So one of the big things It is geographics. It really depends on the geographics. So as far as a cost per employee, let me go over what I mean drastically how it can be different in one place One part of the country versus another so we as I say we have a an office in minneapolis, minnesota For a window cleaner there. We hired 40 some we hired 45 employees there last year 2021 We hired a lot of window cleaning technicians if I Look at what we spent there It was roughly between 1,300 and 1,500 dollars in boosting and sponsoring to get one good window cleaning technician in minneapolis In ohio in ohio Same job same company Same pay same benefits $325 for a window cleaner in ohio Completely identical jobs pay and everything It's completely different So when I when I do demos and I taught I talked to well over a thousand business owners throughout a year In our industry right and cleaning industry for the most part And I can tell you that when I that's the question I get asked at the end of my demo Well, how much do you think I'll have to spend? I look you've got a researcher labor market. You've got to track these things You've got to really really Find out what you're spending on indeed is it working because our application flow on indeed can be can be good But it might cost us 20 dollars for an application But we're not getting enough applications from zip recruiter, but it's only costing us seven or eight dollars on zip recruiter So where do you want to invest that money? You know only comes down to cost per application Because application flow is everything when you're talking recruiting just like lead flow and marketing Right. You need as many leads as you possibly can get but What how much is it costing to get that lead? That's that's a starting point. Okay So all right When you do that the next thing that you kind of want to take a look at is the quality of lead Right. Absolutely because that matters too. If I if it's only costs a 20 dollar only If it's only costing seven or eight dollars per application on on one platform Maybe zip recruiter, but it's costing double that on indeed, right? What was the recruiters the answer? Well, it could be on a cost per application But when you get down to it and you take a look at it 75 of them aren't finishing the application that they started Yeah to another kpi Right. It was making me wonder, you know what our definition of application is. I guess there's several of them You know, I know there's some approaches where if I can just get an email from somebody. I'm okay or If I can get them to like say something in facebook that they're interested in a job. Okay. Well But the quality of that is Less than somebody who took the time to fill out a more formal application Right. So we we consider an applicant somebody that actually finishes an application And makes it in our system They actually finished it So one of the things that you'll want to take a look at though because application is Application flow is so important. You want to see the number of people That start the application and actually complete your application That's a really big important key that you want to take a look at a kpi And it's difficult unless you have an application tracking system It can be difficult to track that because how do you know when somebody starts something and when they don't There's some software and some things out there and tom you might be better Um equipped to talk about the technology part of that but I know our application tracking system tracks that for us um and And if when I get to talking about specific numbers It's very difficult for me to give you a number that's going to work in washington That's the same as florida. You know, I already touched on that with the cost of an employee But our our target in general For people to complete the application is right around 60 65 percent We want 60 to 65 percent of the people or 35 to 40 percent somewhere in there dropping off That's a good number to start with Yeah, so it's for people to start with so if you haven't been tracking this number start and Look at 60 to 65 if you're getting 30 Okay, then maybe we're we're talking about different You have a different number. You got to move that number one way or another right or you can not have to worry about this number so the thing about it liz is It'll help you identify whether or not your your application Is too long too cumbersome You don't want in this market in this labor market speed is everything Yeah, yeah, let me give you an example What I mean though too is at one point when we first started recruiting we had about 30 questions on our application 35 It was long and we had about 40 45 percent of the people not complete the application We are down to about 11 questions on our application and guess what the drop-off rate is right around 40 45 percent That tells me we are in the right zone. We had to adjust to what the market told us we needed to do And so very comfortable with bringing those questions down to that level as long as the drop-off rate remains the same All right, so let let's go back for a second. Um, I think the first The first kpi that you were talking about was cost per acquisition Cost for application Right. Um, so let's let's talk about that one for a minute. Let's say That people on smart business moves. They're like, okay. I've never tracked that and now I'm going to start tracking it right and Uh, do you have a benchmark that people should be looking at now? I know you give us these wide numbers So I know you can't you can't give us anything that's going to be wholly accurate Obviously if we're talking about the difference between 30 bucks and 1200 But you have a number that people should be like starting with I mean it the other thing it depends on is the job title, right? So let's talk technicians Hold on here. Here's where I'm going Sean and see if this makes sense. It might not make sense I'm thinking that we kind of look at a number and we have sort of a benchmark there Let's pretend that it's a hundred dollars. Okay, and then we go in and our number is 500 My next question too would be what are some of the things that we start looking at which I think would be like job title The amount of questions So maybe regardless of what the price or what the cost is. Yeah, it's not Start what are some of the things we should start working on to try and move that number Because even if it's 30 bucks, why wouldn't you still want to try and get it down to 20? Yeah, that's a great great way to set the table because I can't tell you how many times we've tracked things and I'm going There's no way we're going to be able to meet this The target number and and we do and then it's like two years later We're how on earth did we even consider that number acceptable? You know that we were looking at And we gave ourselves, you know some some ammunition to say this is where we were. Let's improve on it Whatever it is. Yeah, that's a great way to set the question Um job title job description for sure Okay, you know, you know, that is one of the things that creates application for and that can all be found by doing some research Okay The length of your job description So how long it is everybody is on a phone today? I got news for you We've shortened our job descriptions up a whole bunch a whole bunch Yeah, so that's that's some of the you know, we we've talked about this wages, right? What do we all we all gave more money and just a better job, right? And you're which is your job title job description Then the number of questions are the ease of how they can answer those questions So you definitely have to understand that about 80 to 85 percent of people are now applying on a phone So if they have to go like this on their phone and like this on their phone and like that and scroll and this So what we recommend is have if you can set it up this way And and we can is instead of having a bunch of scrolling have maybe one question on the full screen and a next button Oh nice Full nice nice and easy to read on a phone, right? You can have 10 questions One at a time is a hell of a lot easier to look at an answer than scrolling Yeah You know, you made the analogy earlier that it's like marketing marketing for customers marketing for employees So what's your customer acquisition acquisition costs? What's your employee acquisition cost? Guess a lot of that really comes down to You know, how good an ad are you running and how good of call to action and In we have a lot of control over the outcomes we get with that Yeah One thing that I really want to point out too. You said it already Sean, but I want to say it in this other way is Like you're giving us all of these things to be looking at and and you're telling us, you know Right now we need to be legs of job description. We have really shortened this but In three months you might need to be looking at These you're going to look at these same exact things But don't get don't get stuck in the mindset of okay I need to shorten it some more I need to shorten it some more because at some point in time You're going to have to lengthen it. Yes, you're going to have to start making it bigger longer Your you we have to change all of these things. This is great advice for january 2022 But nobody knows what we're going to be doing january 2023 Which kind of gets us back to the kpis, right? Yes, the numbers and when the numbers start moving in the wrong direction, maybe it's time to make some changes Here's here's a really good example of that We had a situation where indeed had changed their algorithms on a couple things that we were doing right And they'll change their algorithms just like google does and we notice that our cost per application had gone up about 50% And so we looked at a lot of different things. I got ahold of our rep Because that's another piece of advice i'll give to anybody watching this Is if you see your kpis getting strange and you've tried a couple things The first thing I do is I call my rep it indeed if you're looking at your kpis on indeed and you And you tell them what's going on. Here's the situation the app flow is is is gone down because we're still spending $500 But it's costing $30 an application instead of $15 like last month. What is going on? I'm seeing angry emojis popping up, you know, I almost used profanity there, but I caught myself Oh We've all been there too and we know and I mean I really like the angry emoji because that's exactly what it feels like It's like what the heck Isn't that another thing like marketing and sales though. It's just just like marketing and sales. You've got to change sometimes the Whether it's the platform you're using whether you know Craigslist used to work great. Then it really died And then they charged for it. Well, then they were it was free at once all that's going to change your kpis with craigslist They didn't charge early charge Sometimes it works in certain parts of the country and others. It's still a dud. It's still a dud. Yeah Do you have a recommendation currently? What's working most of the time with the people you're looking at is indeed is working the best. Is that right, Sean? I think indeed works probably the best, but it's getting pretty expensive um We we've got a relationship with zip recruiter and zip recruiter although it doesn't work in all In all parts of the country. We're having some great success in it in our st. Louis office Nice and some and some of our clients out there. So it we really do you do want to test the waters We after a week we can pretty much tell based on our data where things are coming from because we track it And then what we'll recommend is probably let's invest some money in there and and and lower the uh The investment on indeed or facebook or something like that Facebook's gotten a little bit goofy at times too facebook. Um, facebook's a tough one They've changed some algorithm things and they're they've changed the way they do some things It depends on you know, it depends on The month of the year Okay January January is statistically If we're talking about data and numbers and things like that January is by far one of the best months of the year to recruit period and a story december and january's phenomenal Part of the country for that one. I'm at a lady who Basically writes software that kind of plugs into the back end of indeed. She sells software to like indeed and she said statistically January 8th is the highest day in term of the entire year in terms of New job applicant not applicants but job seekers going on to the market. Yep. I believe that That's the peak day. I guess it's after you know the new year and Yeah, yeah, you take a few days to get your resume to gather and if you want to recruit Start in start middle january. That's when uh, You know more fish are biting then than any other time of the year I just did a video on that with some data And it was from indeed for the most part and you can see They've got what they call a competition score That you can get the higher the number is to the number 100 Because if you have 100 out of 100 it is the highest competition There is for the specific job title in the specific city that you put in this Search to gather the data And in january the competition score I put in and I've done the research on a variety of them General labor around the country. Okay. Yeah, the competition score is pretty it goes up. It goes up dramatically and from January to February February to march march to april by the time april comes around. It's too late It's super competitive in in in this when spring starts to hit the other thing that tends to happen is there's less job seekers And there's more businesses that are recruiting and march in april. So january and february You you know, you're going to lose tens of thousands of dollars if you're going to wait until the spring time to recruit Tens if you're in the window cleaning business, you're going to lose hundreds of thousands of dollars. Yeah So the the advice there is Do it now. Don't wait Start now and hold on to those people. Keep your marketing going So that's a common struggle in our industry, right? People are they're afraid to do both at the same time They're like, I want to do this one and I don't want to do this one Right. So Taking it back to to the kpis again If you have some history You should be able to go back and see that Your employee acquisition cost would be higher in april than what it would be in january Absolutely. Um, let's see here in january for us. It was around $15 and 59 cents Last year in our st. Louis office It was Where's my april at april is 37 dollars and 51 cents Wow, more than double. Yep. That's a good little chunk of change there being different So if we we know that we need some people and it's like, well, maybe I'll just wait a while Well, you might be better off doing it now rather than waiting a couple of months because they might not be there in a couple of months Yeah, and let me talk real quickly about another kpi because tom you kind of Swag right into it is the time it takes To hire somebody Sort of blue collar the hospitality, you know your restaurants or hotels Home service industries that type of thing for a technician hourly wage type of blue collar job is roughly 12 to 14 days From start to finish So if we're if you're not recruiting right now That means you're not hiring anybody until you know, certainly not the first or second week of february Yeah, if you're that's a good number. So like from the Day that you first run that ad to the day that that new technician is showing up for work Being about two weeks At least yeah, it's like 14 days And it's now That is that's a number that Has been published And has a lot of historical data behind it That number is probably increased a little bit because the labor market has gotten very very tough over the last two years Yeah, yeah, yeah Is leaving from another job and they want to give you a two weeks notice and throw another two weeks on top of that Exactly And and and you know the way that the market is, you know If you're if you're doing things right your job description matches your culture And the expectations are matched on what you're selling in the job description In your turnover rate isn't too bad, you know industry wise Then you'll be okay, but we all know our industry is is super high turnover for a variety of reasons And and people today and I just did a video on this is job hopping a big deal anymore Because if you're 70 if you're 25 year old daughter or son came up to you and said man Everybody's raising wages. I've been at this job for three years I can go get an extra five bucks an hour somewhere And then when you go there Let's say the paycheck wasn't what they told you it was going to be Well, I'm out of here again. Those are good and smart people that do those things, right? It's not job hopping is completely different than what it used to be Absolutely really really is and if I don't know how I could put a kpi on that, but I know I know from Talking to a lot of recruiters and in my indeed reps, which we're on the horn with every week That's a that's a shift in the in the recruiting game looking at that resume and looking at the job hopping So is that a cross? Like positions, you know, I guess typically the the hourly higher positions, you know, it's I guess it's kind of been that way for for for a long time from My perspective that wasn't uncommon to be looking in an application Somebody that's had three jobs in the last six months and you're trying to figure out if you want to let them be number four or not right um but for more You know Higher paying, you know positions. Are they seeing seeing it there as well? I don't I don't think they're seeing it nearly as much as they are on the hourly wage thing. No, right? Yeah I mean on the research that I've been looking at they are still seeing an increase in that um to a much bigger degree and Even more so the last thing I looked at was since september. I think there's a couple if you think about it Our our education system has gotten to a point too Where it's a lot easier to go to a trade school or we see all these school things every education online And and on television advertise get your nursing degree in two years Get you know, you can become these things in two You don't have to go to the Ohio State University to get With a four-year degree to get a really nice career That's completely changed over the last several years And so a lot of you know and the other thing that's changed is you know The competition is no longer just abc cleaning down the road. It's it's amazon. It's wall martin out pays 15 16 $17 an hour They're paying some reimbursement on tuition. So our competition has gotten much larger too A lot of smart people will try to take jobs, you know at other places more so than they did three four five six years ago We're seeing a lot more competition from the Or with people that can go out into the do some gig work also Which you know, we didn't we didn't see that two years ago Well, we did in Portland, but we didn't see other places as much, right? Yeah, the job report We saw the quit the quit the jolt report that came out with the the government labor the labor department last week I think it came out earlier this week. I don't know where I'm at anymore But it was for november Was a 4.5 million people quit their job So that relates to job hopping a little bit of 4.5 million people are quitting their job And they're still and they're still like what 11 million job openings in the country I mean record high numbers, but the unemployment rate is below 4 percent. So The gap of people who just aren't even looking for a job versus the jobs are out there is getting bigger it is it is it's um It's it's the most unique labor market that I've seen but you know, I we hired 40 some people last year It's it's doable one thing that I've talked a lot about is just mindset, you know We always call it whatever you want whether it's attitude mindset, whatever it is You know, you can sit and complain all you want about the labor market and indeed and all that type of thing and Other companies your competition there they are hiring There's still companies that have been in business for 50 years that aren't out of business They do they know how to get and attract good people still We might not be able to get them as inexpensively as we used to because of supply and demand in the labor market But you that just means you spend more money. I mean if if you want to buy a $300,000 home for $150,000 That's a problem. That's a problem. It's a math problem. You're going to have to pay 300 grand That's all you can want as much as you want, but You're not gonna get it just because you want it. Yeah You gotta gotta flex with which again brings us back to our KPIs, which is why you got to be tracking this stuff So, all right. Give us what what are the so we've talked about a few we've got the cost per application What what were that? I think you've given us three KPIs now. Is that right, John? Yep cost per boy cost per boy Okay And the completion rate application completion rate Okay Time to hire was one of them Time to hire. Oh, yeah time to hire So if you could give us some activities to increase some of these KPIs Sure, or reduce or whatever number it is that we're looking at of course Yeah, I think that's a great question. We talked about some of it. Um, your culture Great list here for If I can get my remarkable to change pages We've got a great list of cost per applicant over here or application So the job title job description the length of the job description Wages and how you advertise them. I actually I think wages is a lot of times So how much absolutely matters nowadays, but also how you advertise them that matters? I know a lot of people are having more success Putting it into the ad twice and putting it in for an hourly and a weekly or and a monthly month amount So that's a good one a number of questions And the phone How to how to make sure they fill up on the phone? That's great. Get double checking that and then call your representative at indeed like A winning idea easy, right that we don't think of a lot of times And then also look at the month of the year and make sure that you are Comparing apples to apples or just or just type deal, right? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I think one other Good. Yeah, go ahead I think speed is everything. So how do we increase the speed? Right, we talked just one thing was the you know, remembering that everybody's on a phone when they apply now So we talked a little bit about that, but somebody if you don't have an online application By now, I mean your your your speeds completely gone And then the other thing I recommend Liz and tom is using some sort of a rating system that can automatically rate whether it's As simple as green yellow red green is they answer really good. So let's move them to the next thing Yellow let's take whatever it is. We use a number scale. So we know, you know If somebody gets an 80 to 100 that's somebody we want to get to an interview table as quickly as possible So automatically being able to once they hit submit automatically knowing instantly. Is this somebody disqualified or not? Okay, instantly Okay, so so that people so that um And the point there is so that you can just get through faster. Yeah, everything's speed exactly. Yeah Okay, I looked on amazon and I looked at walmart online applications and it basically I mean Depending on which one and what job position but everything's very quick and it's it's basically You know, you don't even need a resume to apply for a job with with walmart anymore You just need to pretty much show up or go online and click away Um, and so speed is everything. It's the same on the customer side I mean you made the analogy when we started, you know, it needs to be quick. It needs to be easy It needs to be frictionless. Yeah The easier you can make it the better results you're going to get Yeah, for sure Every question you ask is adding more pain and more friction That's exactly what it is every rep I've talked to whether it's zip recruiter indeed or whatever it is Are saying that that your most important kpi Is is how fast can you get them from an application to hired? Because that tells you an awful lot about everything else Of course, they wouldn't tell you what the cost per application is most important to take a look at Yeah, but that time thing is so important All right, and it does make sense to me, especially when we have So many people like like you brought up earlier, you know the job job hopping thing People are taking jobs like that. They don't like it. They just quit again and go to another job So people are getting off the market quicker. Oh, I see we have a couple of questions over here Robin wants to know. Oh, sorry, Tom Sorry All right, what is an average turnover rate in the cleaning cleaning industry and this turnover higher now All right, so this number gets Gets bad press and it kind of depends on residential or commercial, but I'm gonna let I'm gonna let Sean talk to you about his his expertise here I'm not real sure because I don't do the day-to-day cleaning operations again. I don't own one I don't it's so I would think that you might know better than I would nowadays I I know that it's very high compared to most at one time. I think 200 and some percent wasn't out of the ordinary Um, you know, I think if you can be around 75 percent, you're probably doing pretty well Um, you know, that's what that's what I would Probably I get the opportunity to to like see some industry numbers and It's rare to see somebody below 100 percent. It is rare Um, you see more people around two. I would say if you're two you're not You know, you're you're in the middle of the pack and I see some people that are four and above So, I mean there there can be a wide range But if you're you know, if you're below 200 percent Don't be I'm not to say that you don't want to strive to be better You do because there's a real cost with turnover But don't be beating yourself up saying that, you know, you you suck. I mean you You know, there's a lot of a lot of people a lot in in your same situation. Yeah But even so a lot of people in your same situation. I definitely think you got to work that number I mean this number is costly the other Thank you for saying that because the other part of it is I I think that that turnover number is ignored by Or isn't really given a lot of attention We spent a lot more time worrying about Trying to add a new home to our schedule and not getting you know, not losing a customer We spent more time worrying about that than we do about our employees And I don't understand that because you know, the two things I always bring out to that point, Tom are this You know in the residential home cleaning arena, what we're we've got a client and that client's going to pay us about you know, but Three three to five thousand dollars a year in revenue And we all know that the employee is going to go fetch 50 or 60 thousand dollars of revenue and yet we focus so much But okay, so that's the math of it. Let's think about your life your stress your sanity. Okay This wakes you up a little bit Don't ever worry about that That's so boring So if you don't want to jump off a bridge listen to this right you've got 100 clients You've got 10 employees You lose three clients tomorrow You lose three employees tomorrow, which one is going to keep you up at night How do you even function the next day and figure out how to do your business if three people don't show up to work three clients I can replace them in a week. Yeah, okay, but those percentages are different So some of you out there in uh, Facebook world are like, yeah, that's not the same Those those percentages are way different. Let's use the same percentage, right? And so let's say we have 10 We say we have 100 customers and we lose 10 clients or we have 10 employees and we lose one employee Which one hurts worse? I nobody's gonna argue that And I don't and I think you have to use reality reality is you know, you know, five employees take care of 100 Customers. I mean that's that's how our businesses operate So you can do percentages all you want. That's fantasy island. We we're talking about real numbers in business You know, you don't need 10 Employees to clean 10 clients. You know, I don't know exactly what the number is anymore But you know, you've go with the reality of the numbers of an employee that it takes to take care of clients And and you lose three employees Your wife's gonna know it your husband's gonna know it your kids are gonna know But three employees out of 100 Sean is different like three clients out of 100 Three employees still all day long. I'd rather lose three clients out of 100 than three Your investment in your employee is more your return on investment employee is more. I mean, it's No comparison. No comparison I I do think that nowadays since covet and in the past year specifically people are people in our industry are definitely putting a lot more focus on This number on this retention number this turnover number with their employees they're definitely looking at that and they're seeing it as Like a KPI that needs to be watched, right? And it's one of the top KPIs instead of in the past. It was like, yeah, yeah, yeah I know I need to watch that but I'm focusing on my clients. It's yeah, it's so frustrating to spend You know $500 or $1,000 boosting ads to have you know, nobody show up to the interview It's so frustrating. Yeah We've been we were hearing that a lot last year, right? It's better I don't know. Thankfully in january like you said, but really If right now in january you were saying that this is the best time of the year bar none So if you are not over staffed right now, you get it in gear You better get to go in because it is still not It's not Amazingly easy right now. It's just easier. It's just better Yeah, and that's exactly right. It's going to be less expensive To hire in january that it's it's always supplying demand. I mean You've got less competition right now that's advertising that's going to increase in february and march and in april And it was like 155,000 Less job seekers in the labor market from month to month Okay, in the united states in the general labor blue collar space So it's a lot of people and you know, if you like to spend more money on recruiting then just wait until you know Spring hits. That's just the bottom line and call shon. He could help you. Yeah, absolutely Bottom line you guys is it's not even really about the money. I mean I know most business owners that I know I don't care how much it's going to cost me if I can get somebody for most people they're like No matter what I'm spending no matter what I'm doing. I can't get people. I can't take on jobs It's not even about the money. It's about like just being able to get them Which is why indeed has us a little bit more barrel right now Yeah, they do Guys money's not an object when when you need people No, oh Dan Plattis said it. He's our he's the bookkeeping guru. He's the numbers guy He knows numbers of a lot of cleaning industries around the country a lot hundreds and hundreds Dan Plattis the CEO And um He said it the other day it was Tuesday yesterday on our call our leadership call. He said Just tell those people just our businesses to spend whatever we need to spend to get employees Because if I have to I'll throw a thousand bucks at google on a heartbeat and those people those employees will be full Of cleanings. Yeah. Yeah, it's that simple. It's really that simple It's a different world right now. You have to have those people And they are not as plentiful as they once were That's true. That's true We we are kind of pushing up against the top of the hour is there You know tell us a little bit about blue skies and for those of us who Are more inclined to like let somebody help us out rather than trying to do everything ourselves How could could could you help us with the recruiting? If you go to the website there or you can find me on facebook You um want to set up a demo with me and i'll show you exactly what we use our automated recruiting system That we use for our own companies and for hundreds of other cleaning companies around the country Um When you set up a demo it'll take about 20 30 minutes I'll show you the exact questions we use. I'll show you how we research the labor markets I'll show you on average what it might cost you to to boost and sponsor depending on the job We'll do the research in your labor market for you. We'll create the job titles the job descriptions We'll post it all over the place. We'll gather data on what we think is happening out there as as far as where things are coming from Application flow and then we'll consult with you on what we think you might need to spend in boosting and sponsoring In what platforms that you'll need to do that in And then you can take all of that and try it on your own if you want And it won't cost you time to do that or it'll cost you 30 minutes to hang out with me a little bit And steal it all you want if you're gonna have a lot of fun regardless I guarantee you you'll have fun because I do over a thousand demos A year and I'd never heard anybody say man, you're not very enthusiastic about this stuff. Are you never have I heard that so Do I go to this link here if if I want to demo is this the best way to do it? Link there recruiting services Yeah, and it like recruiting dash packages. Is that Can you see my screen Sean But it's awful small Okay, if you hit the recruiting services button town, that's what he wants. Yeah left. Just click on that. Okay And Scroll down just a little bit right through that green button Okay And there's my calendar Yank it time. Oh, you better do it quickly because he doesn't have much time left Yeah Getting booked up getting booked up All right, um, do can you share any kind of pricing? How's the pricing my bow? Is that something that's better to get on uh on the call? Well, it's definitely it's just like house cleaning, right? I'll big your house. What do you need us to do? It's hard to give a number, but it ranges from 197 up to 697. Okay All right, so if you're looking at Is that it didn't matter what it cost if you need people you need people, right? That's the truth But you know a lot of people want to know it's true though. I think a lot of people nowadays are Well, maybe not so much in january. I know This is my thinking the whole thing if you're struggling with labor and if you got positions You can't fill and all you're doing is what you've been doing and you're still getting the same results You need to try something different. I'd give shine a call Thank you Yeah, I'll tell you what if you guys give me uh, if somebody clicks on a button to set up a demo It doesn't obligate you to anything other than to talk with me We have a $350 setup fee. I'll waive that completely if you if you go to the calendar and you listen to this Um right off the bat. I'll do that for you and we'll give a little bit of a discount It'll ask you how you heard about us when you fill everything out and um, as I say I'll show you everything that we do take it and you can call me A week if you got questions two weeks down the road We can talk it through or you can just hire us to be your full-time recruiting department for a few hundred bucks Just just tell shine that uh, I saw your uh webinar on smart business moves and I thought your live stream was smart business moves and That's why I'm here and Set up free. That's that's awesome That is awesome. Thanks, Sean. Also, I just want to do a real quick plug for Sean. Um, as far as Him what he said, he'll give it all to you. He absolutely well He's one of the most giving people I've seen in our industry Well, we have a lot of giving people in our industry don't get me wrong But she Sean always he shares all of the stuff If you want to do it yourself, he's all about letting you do it yourself But if you don't want to how many people Sean say I'm gonna do it myself and then a month later are like never mind It's it's it's usually less than a month And then the ones that get on our starter package almost always want to go into the other one like a month after that starter bag Of course That makes perfect sense, right because as once you see how easy it is to have somebody else do it It's like yeah, take my money And very quickly and then I'll be quiet Is if you sign up with us to do the things that we want to do for you Basically your only job Is somebody's going to reach out to you and say I want to interview And all you need to do is interview them and hire them. We do everything else We'll screen the living daylights out of them for you. We do everything else You just need to respond and say how's tomorrow. Yep. They show up you interview them You hire them and it's that simple really is that simple nice I love this industry because there's a lot of awesome people in it and Sean's definitely one of them The house cleaning industry is a better place because of people like Sean. Thank you Thank you. Thank you, Sean. Tom. We do have an announcement before we head out of here Okay Have at it. All right. So starting in february We are going to be doing zoom calls on tuesday and thursday And those are going to be obviously much more interactive And we'll tell you more about what those are going to be about a little bit later on in the month We're starting february 1st. Actually, that's the first tuesday of february. You know what that is. That's groundhogs day eve The penultimate groundhog day Well, I know that because I got married on february 1st and I'll never forget it because it's groundhogs day eve All right. Well, I tell me if that's not romantic and I'm never forgetting that either so All right, we are it's wednesday. So we're about wrapped up for the week We're going to be back monday five o'clock eastern our guest is going to be dom williams Dom is a house cleaning business owner and kocomo indiana He's got a really big house cleaning business. He's an entrepreneur. He does a lot of stuff But he's also founder of a software package called hire who and he's really Learned a lot about the hiring process So going back to I don't Have time to pull up my process flow chart anymore But after you recruit people guess what you got to hire people, right? So there's a whole another set of kpi's that go with hiring and dom's going to help us with that on monday All right Thanks a bunch Love the work that you're doing You guys take care. We'll be back Monday five o'clock eastern. Bye. Bye. Bye. Thanks y'all. Bye. Bye