 but I think as humans and as society I would say that the next five to ten years are going to be decisive towards what are you going to be as humans for the next one thousand because the and I think I always look at two metaphors the Star Trek and the Star Wars or a bit more like yeah Star Trek and Star Wars or even Terminator and the narrative of Star Trek is that we can go one thousand years in the future and humans still exist there will be some shifts there will be ups and downs but okay still okay but if you go to the Star Wars normally there's an emperor that take over the world of humanity or even Blade Runner which Blade Runner is actually close to what is happening in humanity is that five ten corporations control the entire economy Dennis Garda is my guest on this episode of Inside Ideas brought to you by 1.5 media and innovators magazine. Dennis is an author, academic influencer, serial entrepreneur and leader in the fourth industrial revolution, AI, fine tech, digital transformation and blockchain with over two decades of experience in international business, speed level positions and digital transformation Dennis has worked with new tech, cryptocurrencies, ICOs and driven ICOs regulation, compliance, legal international process and has created a bank and has been involved in the inception of some top 100 digital currencies Dennis has created various companies such as Studium and I'm not even sure if I say that right it's with us it's not Studium but it's Studium, a tech platform, a digital and blockchain startup that created the software Block Impact sold to Glance Technologies Incorporated and founder and publisher of intelligent headquarters.com, intelligent HQ.com, hedgethink.com, fashionabc.org and tradersdna.com. Dennis is also the co-founder of Tech ABC and Cities ABC a digital transformation platform to empower, guide and index cities through the fourth industrial revolution based technologies like blockchain, AI, internet of things and many many more. He has been working with the likes of the United Nations, Unitar, UNESCO, European Space Agency, Davos at the World Economic Forum, Phillips, Saks Bank, MasterCard, Barclays and governments all around the world. As an author, Dennis Garder published the book The Fourth Industrial Revolution, AI Blockchain, Fintech IoT, reinventing a nation in 2019 among other many many things that he does. His upcoming book is really really interesting Society 5.0 Magna Carta and I'm hoping that today in our discussion we can tickle on these subjects to charter the liberties for our humanity and I hope to participate in that work with him as well on this new book and I welcome you Dennis to the show thank you so much for being here. My honor thank you so much for having me I'm very excited as well. It's good to see you again and I've done your events for open business council and sodium and which have received a wonderful response I think over the three videos we've done and disseminated you know well over 30 40 000 views and and it was just a sheer pleasure and it was right kind of shortly after the pandemic hit where we're all kind of in this crazy lockdown. I think you caught me with looking like Rip Van Winkle I had a full full grown beard and my hair down but you are still kind enough to say okay well I understand Mark that's the crazy mark. I want to get right in to the depth of things because you've been doing this for a long time you've been involved in Fintech and banking and blockchain and technologies emerging technologies for a long time and then some of the things you were talking about some of the transitions you were talking about really came to fruition and we were hit with the pandemic and crazy inauguration in the United States or vote and political issues then we were hit with Black Lives Matters and then Asian racism and we're still kind of emerging from some pretty crazy times not just around COVID and pandemic but in our economies and in the markets and how blockchain has emerged in this time and so my real question is one how have you weathered this crazy time in this storm? I know the answer I want to hear it from you and has any of your previous models you were well prepared and you weathered this crazy storm in this time very well and realized that there are some better business models out there or some better models for life to get through crazy hard times like the world has experienced? Yeah very good question I think the points right now is that of course no one is completely prepared but we have always to be prepared there's a kind of paradox but it's what makes us humans and I think especially people like us that are in business and thought leadership I think one of the things I always like to go is go to the Bible or go to the old writings I am a writer as well and the poet is that's like the Bible said there's nothing new under the sun so I think the first point is that a lot of these things are things that unfortunately repeat itself around history we are actually probably the best time in history being realistic and I think it's very important to highlight that and I know that you are an optimist I think I would say that it's very disruptive because if you go to history and you look at history and I love history is that things normally happen lower than what we have in our times in our times things go much faster and I think that creates a lot of disruption because our brains are not prepared for all this velocity and of course what happened in the last few years especially in the context of the last 100 years is probably the most disrupted with the exception of the Second World Wars because we have a massive pandemic that affects literally everyone in the planet and but the thing is that purely from a data perspective we actually as a human race we actually and I think no one speaks about this and I want to normally have a bit of profit of the doom but today I want to be a bit more positive as well is that we actually react very well to this of course there was the United States management was not as good as now I think it's a bit more wise let's put it that way and without going to politics and of course probably if you would have a bit more wise person there probably a lot of things wouldn't happen the way they happen but without going through that I think in general the humanity behaved very well and to be honest looking at the the scope and scale of the pandemic I think was we could be much worse let's put it that way I think it's we always tend to see the impact of the negativity but it was really we are the economy is still running even if of course it's affecting millions and millions but there was for low in a lot of countries I think I I feel for a lot of and for us even in the initially dealt very well which is probably it was actually when the pandemic start first I was very worried for India and unfortunately and actually end up actually but it was one year after which is interesting that initially we're actually the wealthiest countries that weren't suffering more with the pandemic so I would say that I think the the I'm done coming to your direct question the models that we are using right now are changing and they're going to be shifting faster and faster and that definitely is going to be very competitive and very I would say not competitive but very disruptive for people and for organizations I don't believe so much in competition I believe more in collaboration but I think the challenge is in one end is a perception challenge in order to end is the capacity of adaptability and I think that is where I think as society not prepared not prepared to be entrepreneurs we're not prepared to deal with disruption and we're not prepared for technology and for my case the the pandemic of course initially was disturbing but it became quite I've been managing it quite well because I've been already my team is all over the world we manage people all over the planet we've been already working virtually for a lot of a lot of years let's put it that way so it's nothing new what is happening but of course it disrupts because there's a lot of deals you have to do face to face and and that's well even to meet people and to manage people is difficult we forgot that but just one thing is that it's talking like we're doing is fantastic because you can share ideas and I think this these platforms are amazing and we can actually make things that that are actually I'm learning massive with this podcast with mine with yours and I think we'll listen to your podcast as well but I think what I'm more excited right now is definitely the challenge are massive but I believe that we can actually cope with this and I think I think that it comes my activist at is how we work as society and of course we work a lot in these topics how we work to make this happen in a way that empowers and these tools that are disrupting us that are built by us first of all they are tools for us not just for us to be kind of used by these tools and I think that's the biggest challenge and I think on that level I'm still very worried I'm still worried about the power of AI not used wisely about a lot of other things related but at the same time I believe that you me and our voices together can make a massive effort and that's what I'm here I'm having fun I'm having trying to inspire and being inspired but at the same time not giving up and I think that's the there's a quote there's a bit too radical that is only the paranoid survive I would prefer all the inspired entrepreneurs survive or more and more adapt let's put it that way if you redesign the quotes but I think in the sense that you cannot just sit and and just of course in the middle age people would go and become monks and they can do still meditation but now even most rate is doing meditation so I think it's about the way we deal with these things and keep being humans and I think that's what makes it special definitely it makes it so special you're you're a man who wears many hats and so not only you're an author and a speaker and you you teach as well so that's kind of one hat as the not just an evangelist but as someone who's spreading knowledge and awareness in your writings but then you also wear that the hat as someone who is actually in there dealing with the technologies and the currencies and the banking and the fine tech and the the the solutions by creating companies and recreating products and apps and like I mentioned in the currencies and then there's a third hat right that I get the first two hats right and the third hat is there's a war around humane technology and society and okay yeah my for that is mostly really about first of all is a bit of an activist but in a good way and working with governments or at least with institutions worldwide and I think a bit like what you do as well trying to push ideas that can actually make our society less dysfunctional and I do whatever I can to help I I do a lot of education now now I don't have time to teach as much as I used to but what I do is I try to do a lot of lives help organizations teach for free a lot of things and and make sure that people that need because I believe really that with with the tools that we have anyone can actually live very well in the planet but most of people don't know how to do it and even me I'm learning every day so that's the third hat so working with organizations helping when I can invest even small I'm not an investor but I try to help and fund things through my savings or through my team and things like that that's that's absolutely amazing and the products that you guys are turning out are really invaluable I think and and I I want to I want to touch on those and we'll get more into them in a minute but you I've heard you speak numerous times and most of the time you're talking about this the coming tsunamis and sometimes it's kind of just dystopian but actually this time that we've just experienced was another I would say positive tsunami and I wanted to get your takes because you've talked about that so much how do you see it and and what do you feel about that yeah I think the next tsunami was a book actually I never published completely about although I published a couple of articles on that that I do that is about how the immersion technologies that are as well called the fourth industrial revolution technologies or frontier technologies are creating kind of continuous tsunamis and I think you can look at this from different angles from the different angle so the first angle is the way they affect society and you as humans the second angle is how they affect society and our society societal behavior and the third one of course is that are they affecting our world because of course this is creating a huge change and shift nature faster than anything in history so I think these three kind of tsunamis and of course if you look at nature nature I think everything comes back to nature nature has a lot of art core events and we forget that these natures I think that this kind of excess that sometimes okay nature is very beautiful the nature is very hardcore a volcano it's not necessary something that is nice you can destroy an entire ecosystem and it doesn't care if there's there's a bird or whatever the step will destroy and it will do whatever has to do because it's part of nature and that tsunami is the same and tsunami can destroy an entire ecosystem but it happens because earth is briefing and a lot of I'm trying to put this in a more simplistic way but it happens for a reason so I think we as humans and I think there's a book that is very the name says everything from a from arari no arari that is kind of a model so I then of course is the title that is a provocation but I think the idea of the tsunami when you look close to where we are as humans we have the powers of what's in beginning of times were the gods in a lot of ways of course I'm not saying this with any kind of disrespect for the religions but in the sense that we have powers that can actually transform everything around us and they can actually transform our own nature so for example is that I did it I did a live a keynote that was hacking the DNA of humanity and when I did that I thought it was I initially was kind of more conceptual but then I start initially I came up with the concept I start researching and then I start researching technology about it so we in fact people are hacking the DNA of humanity and actually I didn't know that when I started that I thought it was more metaphoric because I thought it would take some years no it's happening and it's happening a couple of years ago so we have universities like Washington I think is Washington and a couple of universities that are hacking literally hacking the DNA of humanity and for example I saw another podcast fantastic last week Lex Fridman and one fantastic Sinclair the the guy from Harvard is actually already he has he was saying I have a lot of friends of mine that are just cloning their dogs so this is not already in some kind of science fiction film is happening around us and I think right now the challenge we have coming back to this is this tsunamis if they are contained are fantastic but in the middle of this kind of disruption that we're doing if we don't if we're not careful we can create like a massive tsunami that can actually create much more than much for humanity and that is kind of one of my challenge when it comes to especially artificial intelligence or even centralized technologies because the point is is and it's more even than data because data of course right now even as speaking my device knows what I'm saying he knows that I'm not moving he knows that I'm interacting with someone he knows my eyes and he probably knows more about my blood circulation than I know about mine and and these things right now are happening as we speak I think the point to summarize is that the tsunamis are important because we need always to breathe and actually you know that brief it's here for us as humans and the meditation is about that and meditation is not more probably than previously if you would go to church like 50 years ago or 100 people were just repeating something which in the end of the day is meditating and and the way you would breathe and read them a prayer or something like that is not different from what we have now we simply do it in a slightly different way there is much more scientific driven so I think I think this kind of the tsunamis I'm quite worried because I think we are still so the the main warring is the lack of understanding of the impacts of technologies and that's for me the most radical thing for me is that people are not conscious about this whereas I have children two teenagers and a daughter and they spend like 10 hours per day or more in front of the devices and I think all of us spend around five six or seven depends and now we are working from home even more but the challenge is this we all use the devices first yesterday I was talking with someone that works in one of the most advanced analytic tools in the world and it was kind of paradoxic saying I don't like to to look at I don't like to give away my data but your job is managing data and in a very high profile way so you see the paradox of what you just said you are one of the most advanced people in the world looking at data and you say that you are afraid of the data so then you don't have a job so I think it's how you look at this and look at this from an angle okay there's a radical level that can actually create the tsunami and there's a level that tsunami can actually help us to readjust this and I think that is the the balance that I try to do in my work and that's the concept as well of society 5.0 is a society that the tools empower us and is a humanity humanity centric society because the fork into this revolution is still from the perspective of revolution the perspective of the tools but I think it has to be from the perspective of human humanity and our humanity needs to be first and of course in balance with the nature because it's the only way for us to to well first of all have been environmental sustainable and as well wellness ecosystem and human direction so I have to totally agree with you but you've opened up a box here that I want to go a little bit deeper into if you don't mind so you've all know a Harari fabulous author fabulous speaker and one of the wise men of our decade century and homo duos I have to agree with you wonderful book homo sapiens and 21 questions or 21 lessons as fabulous as well just a wonderful wisdoms that come out there um which are eye opening but right now we're really experience a lot of things so the the Edward Snowden documentary came out many things came out there things coming to light as far as the technology involved and and what governments are using for humanity and using tools and things very advanced be able to monitor a lot of things around the world we had a big huge problem with the election that's why I say you know how we weathered the crazy time of this the inauguration and the pre-election and that and there was you know issues about whether the vote was correct and all sorts of things you know I was trained by Al Gore as a climate leader and speaker well in 2000 when Al Gore was voting and that there was the big dimple chat issue regarding elections in Florida where there was these little bubbles on the the voting thing that they can is that a vote is that not a vote is that a dimple is it not and since then we I would say we're still not 100% everywhere in the world in this digital transformation or revolution or in the transition we're still trying to get there but now we're 2021 dealing with election issues and craziness still which is unheard of it's it's really unbelievable and blockchain emerging technologies distributed ledger technology machine learning all these things could easily fix it I was like really thinking the minute Biden got into office I'm glad he doubled down on the Paris agreement I'm glad he went back into climate and and changing for the plan of energy for the United States but why in the hell wouldn't you fix the election process into one that is a trustless system one that works for everyone so that we don't have this problem again and but that I'm not done yet it leads me to one more thing the the documentary the social dilemma came out and and the discussion around humane technology and tech for good and I really want to know because you are an activist and because you're so entrenched in all these things how do we get those leaders around the world and I had one of them on my podcast minister Audrey Tang who is probably one of the most advanced around broadband as a human ride and humane technology and how we do upvotes and how how do we filter out fake news how do we make that transition so that it's a world that works for everyone and one that's trustless and what are your thoughts and feelings about all these things that that we're seeing in the world but where the applications are coming they are being applied or they're not 100% there I kind of want to get your thoughts and feelings on those things so that we don't run into the problems in the future or what your forecast is in some extent well it's a big question so I would look at the question in two ways so one is how we should approach that as society and in the other ways is how we well the urgency to look at this so and as well the challenges that are part of that that urgency so as society the challenge we are facing right now is is definitely that there's a lot of legacy systems and the lack of issues in terms of education our education systems are not coping with the velocity so we have we have and this partly is normal nature we took like you mentioned the almost sapiens from our area and it took 40 000 years for us to become what we have now and the point is right now in the space of 10 years we are changing who we are both physically because right now we are becoming androids because probably most of our time we have a device with us or we are using technology so we already kind of kind of not sandroids but cyborgs at least so that is happening okay whatever we like it or not everyone even probably someone in 70s or something like that are using technology in one way or the other and this technology is a kind of a new layer of our humanity the point is that there's a kind of a sometimes a very basic way of looking at this there's a way of looking at this that is okay yeah okay all technology is bad uh and then and then people don't do their homework when you start this kind of very big assumptions is the risk because that's what happened with the elections in the US that you mentioned is and actually both of them is that you only do assumptions people don't think out of the box and if you don't think out of the box you create okay people will try to get someone to think for them it's the old expression and when you start having people to think for yourself you will follow someone you will get a video on your tool or you just get your religion and you follow the person and then this becomes in a rabbit hole that is kind of unique and that is humanity on its kind of millions of years of history but I think the challenge right now is that as we are accelerating all of these different things and that society is partly coping or not coping because even if we if the society doesn't cope it will be indirectly is the tsunami coming again because okay you don't cope with it you'll cope with you so it's what happened and this is happening as you speak it's happening for instance COVID-19 was the biggest accelerator of digital transformation and he accelerated probably 10 years because the world economy right now is sustainable by digital tools and that's a lot of companies right now they want to get they want their employees to go back and they don't want to go and so this is a challenge and an opportunity and as well this proved a lot for instance an example I'm not going to politics but for instance there was a lot of things that some for instance the universal income and other things that people would never think a couple of years ago now this is not realistic and that's making a sense it makes complete sense at least to make sure that they kill the poverty levels but we need to keep people incentive because of course machines are going to replace most of our basic things but you still have for instance like for instance the number of billionaires in the world and we are actually the most wealthy people even me and you speaking here in the world because we are part of the 1% or even probably 0.5% but the challenge is that the rest of the population in the world the billionaires are like 1.1500 people in the world it's not more than 2,000 people but these people have more power combined than all this humanity but the point is that this kind of power is in a different level right now is that is a power that is financial is economical but is as well in terms of health care and in terms of mind expansion so I think all of this together is creating a huge paradox and I believe in humanity but I believe that humanity on that level I'm a bit Kubrick I love Kubrick because if you look at 2001 or this day is that humanity is a bit like a swarm sometimes it's kind of we go in our instincts and our swarm parts of our DNA sometimes is not necessary very nice we get jealous even the people we love we end up actually having fights divorces and even with our children because we have to push things so so I think that part of the humanity DNA that is what makes a special is as well a challenge and as well as we put this with machines the machines will be reflecting that and especially machines will be learning with data and the data even if you are for instance if you are coding something in China for us today actually that is in the news that China allows the digital yen and there's already 3000 ATMs that can be used to get digital yen so you don't need paper anymore to get these but the United States is still paper for us all the the trillion dollars of funding that was given to the to the US economy and population was done by paper it was a shack shine is already 10 years or 20 ahead of the rest of the world so we have this China is a slightly different democracy from the rest of the world so you know what I mean so I think the challenge right now is so I think to answer and to try to go to the point of the root of the point is our challenge right now is making sure that these layers of technology and of course all the climate change that you are the expert and other people is that all of this has to be managed in an intelligent way because of course as humans and the planet of course is quite big because most of the planet is C and we can't populate a lot of things I'm not worried about the planet because the planet will clean in itself it's part of nature of course the the consequences and acceleration a lot of things is different but I think as humans and as society I would say that the next five to ten years are going to be decisive towards what are you going to be as humans for the next one thousand because the and I think I always look at two metaphors the Star Trek and the Star Wars or a bit more like yeah Star Trek and Star Wars or even Terminator and the the narrative of Star Trek is that we can go one thousand years in the future and humans still exist there will be some shifts there will be ups and downs but okay it's still okay but if you go to the Star Wars normally there's an emperor that take over the world of humanity or even Blade Runner which Blade Runner is actually close to what is happening in humanity is that five ten corporations control the entire economy and the point is that nothing against these corporations we all work with them directly and directly is that they did everything legal but the point is that and I will give a small example to explain the I think the the importance of the layers okay and a small example is that I was approached to build the software for a central bank in Africa in one of the economies I'm not going to mention names and it was a very exciting project it took me a lot of time to accept because initially I was afraid with with the because of the country you look at their Wikipedia page you would get scared and I got scared and then I start working and I was very excited I did a couple of conferences and actually created small fintech revolution in the country and actually a lot of things just just by talking I help a lot of things but then as we start building the software we understood the nuances and the implications is that building the software of course we were a startup building something for a central bank which is different from a google but what I understood was if I would be google I would take over the country economy in two minutes because the point is that you build the software you give it for free then you have the date of the country and that's as well what what Arari says in the 20 lessons for the 20th century so this is happening as we speak right now is are we confront these especially to avoid the happenings of the elections because the elections is a paradox that shows that even in the country that is the wealthiest economy or second wealth is right now in the world a huge part of the population doesn't believe on the truth and on the facts and they don't want to believe on the facts and on the truth that part for me is the part that scares me a lot but but just apply that to technology so if you are coding so this 50 percent of the population of us are 40 that don't believe in the reality and they want to write another reality if they're coding software I don't need to say more no so and this is the biggest challenge that never happened in humanity because if you're coding software thinking that you create your parallel reality and you don't want to look at the fact that scientific evidence scientific numbers what is going to happen is that okay these people are not stupid there are intelligent people but humanity it's contradictory and it's full of paradoxes so I think that is the part that scares me and it scares me and that's why I focus I think the answer is education and coaching and continuous education continuous coaching but it's not just the education it has to be education that prepares people for reality because that's one of the things that I am just to finish I really want to emphasize this the coaching for reality is critical because I see my children I have one step son in the university and during the pandemic he had not one single class he was with teachers and it doesn't feel as important and the teacher didn't oblige him so how the hell are you one university allow a student to be one entire year without one lesson face to face without meeting one teacher that means yes he's the very smart guy but this the university is giving and this is my step son okay so I get double nervous because he is a smart guy he has me and mother and everything and everything else to push him but imagine another person so that means you go to the university you get a still a course but you don't care less about the institutions you don't care less about the people and this is actually happening as we speak so this is the challenge that we have but these people are still not the problem is the other people that are learning for you too they're learning for you too you can find something if the algorithm picks something you'll you got the picture so sorry I don't think it's a long answer but it's a very big question you've done a lot of projects you know help banks create over a hundred different currencies and I know you worked for or tried to work I don't know how it went with ACON as well on a project and and many other things and so it's great to see that there's people out there who are really like the social dilemma like Tristan Harris who's trying to you know put the humane part back into technology and let's use this for good and for the right reasons to fix some of these broken systems we have that's kind of how we originally came together you know we um we're having our discussions and we were talking about sustainability and cities and and how we can use these emerging technologies for good to to create it and how the united nations and the world economic form has started to evolve and use them as well your company uh studio has several products and I mentioned some of them blocks dna influence dna block impact life's dna um and cities abc and some of them we can see behind you on your on your background but I want to go in if you don't mind a little bit more about your city's abc and what that has the potential to do and I know some things are evolving some things are getting ready to launch and you've redesigned and update to be even more tools available and I wouldn't even mind if while you tell us about it you as long as you kind of give us the the audible walkthrough for those who are only listening to this on a podcast that they can understand what they're seeing but also so that those of us who are watching can maybe get a tickle of the inside or behind the scenes look at cities abc and what you do with that and how you're using these emerging technologies to advance and help uh help humanity yeah so thank you so much for the opportunity so so I think with cities abc so cities abc came out of the work I was doing actually with the government of malaysia what I actually worked for a couple of years and the advising and actually I helped creating the concept of malaysia 5.0 which was all done proven which was probably not very good from my side but one of the things I found out was that there was a huge disconnection in terms of data from cities and I got to actually very nervous because I thought okay how is it possible that the most important part of the world economy is very small to no data and and I thought okay let's then try to create something that can actually help people so mostly the platform was created as a way of looking okay how can we look at um as cities uh in a platform a bit like a Bloomberg terminal for cities that anyone can come and find data but find data that is most of the data ironically is based worldwide it's public okay there's a huge amount of data that is public and you can find the data the challenge is that this data it is connected and I'll share the screen and when it comes and of course there will be a new iteration of the platform being being created as we speak and we're going to be launched soon but the idea is very straightforward so I'm just going to give so 60 cities in the world represent around 60 percent of the world economy and for instance if I go let's say if I go to at the moment we still didn't put but we are putting all the cities in the world here at the moment we are actually working for it so if I go to let's go to an african and let's go here to an african city luanda king sasa so what we did was we created a bit like a Wikipedia for cities because the irony is even the Wikipedia pages um when you get out of the top like 120 cities it becomes really there's a lot of contradiction data so for now and actually we pause for now to create the entries because we are doing like three layers of data so the cities abc is in one end a platform for creating like a bloom work terminal for cities but open to everyone and then we'll make money through a subscription that the cities can have for getting more access data and apis and the point one is really just finding data which is difficult but we're building as well an algorithm called index dna cities abc index dna uh that is about looking at data from the perspective of sustainable developing goals and finding this so as the data gets more mature and we get more information this algorithm starts looking how sustainable the city is how wellness it is and so forth and then we build as well another part that is the most advanced part that we're building right now that is a section that you can actually look at information so this is something we work with the company called rev impact that is a very advanced data that it works with machine learning and artificial intelligence at first if I go this is for coronavirus data and we are working in terms of building these things in the right way so if I go right now look at data worldwide and then I compare this with the United States I can check the data about the United States and then you see I have COVID-19 cases and then we have this so mostly we pick data that is available for everyone we clean the data and we offer the data so this gives us a more interesting and this is available for everyone is for free and we want to make sure that this data is democratized but people sometimes don't use it and and if you look at this you can actually um find a way to organize the different things of the topics for instance the most important topic trending around COVID is vaccine the second is fear and the furthest panic the fork is locked on and this is based on data from the biggest media players in the planet and then you have the media hype you have the fake news index you have country sentiment data you have infodemic you have all these different things so if I look for instance in terms of the the sentiment country sentiment index it allows me to look for instance I have the United States let's compare for instance with India and if I look at the country sentiment as you see for instance the data in in India is much more negative is minus 40 percent and in May during the peak was minus 69 so that means people were really panic so this is a simple way to see data that you can only look at if you are the FBI or something but anyone can have access to this and we want with this for people to be conscious and look at the facts okay this is kind of based in 20 around 22,000 sources of credible data worldwide and of course the data is clean and prepared on this level and then one thing is interesting as well because I know that you why it's impressed on these things as well is the fake news index we can actually look so at the moment the fake news index thankfully is not as bad as used to be in the last year and I think we all know partly why at least people in kind of a target audience of your podcast but if you go to other things unfortunately it's not completely the same so if I go to Brazil or France or Turkey or Russia let's compare with Russia I'll look at the fake news index so as you see Russia has much more things related with fake news than than the rest of the world and that's partly reasons for that I'm not going to the politic parts but this shows as well the complexity but this is really based on data that everyone can actually can look so you got the picture so I think this is partly what to do and then I think the last part what you're trying to do is is building as well this platform to become a marketplace that can empower people and of course one of the biggest trends right now in the world is NFTs and we as you know I've been working blockchain technology since the beginning of blockchain actually before the concept was mainstream so what we're doing right now is using NFTs non-fungible tokens that is mostly like a digital certificate and working to build this and offer this to people but for creators first there's around three million creators in the world three to five million creators and most of these three to five million creators are living under property line and people forget that and this is people that study and so forth so building these and actually most of them are influential zironically and during COVID they were very they suffered quite a lot to this so we're building an NFT marketplace on the top of the platform that anyone can come and see and then of course we have content a lot of resources that actually can be anyone can have access about health care and sustainability peer-to-peer people and opinions education tech data and smart city security economy anyone can come there's interviews there's your interview there's a lot of things you're going to be interviewing personalities actually launching a new podcast that is a podcast with ilton super and george celeri celeri that is about inclusion diversity and lgbtq if i think it's an important thing so we're going to be looking at this and as well we want to be diverse on that level so the idea is to create and of course promotes uh actually we need to promote your podcast as well here so the idea is this is platform open and as we get a bit more of funding and more capacity and we're working a lot of crowdfunding solutions we want to make this an app decentralized so using defy we can actually make the app available for anyone and that means you are a city for the marketplace you can actually do an NFT between a creator a known for profit and so forth we're working with the billion stronger actually mark you should interview the founder of billion strong so billion stronger is an organization that is led by um uh devra roux and uh is focused on looking at 1.3 billion people worldwide that are that live with disabilities there's 1.3 billion people and people don't know about it so um so this people have not even the basic digital inclusion so actually it's interesting the last event we had a blind poet actually reading poems and i was amazed because uh actually we had two blind people but one of them is the is the head of the blind association in the US and he was using i could not believe because he used his phone to get into doom and get in the live without any help and this is as well while technology is amazing so so the idea is that we are working with them to make sure that the platform reflects that but it's very similar to what you discussed in this podcast but the idea of the platform is really democratizing data for cities and using this data for finding solutions so it's this and everything we're doing for the open business council is the same and fashion abc fashion abc and textile the reason we created because the textile industry is the second biggest employer in the world and most of them are women and they live under property and that and sometimes we forget these things and it's as well the biggest the second biggest polluter in the world and you know that's better than anyone else so that's the reason why you create these platforms using the same technology and as well we're trying to take it to the next level thank you so much for sharing that and it's beautiful to kind of get a behind the scenes and a little guide on on how it can be used you're also kind of adding some new things you've just made update there not only the website and some other things so we can expect much more there as a tool which is important for for cities so when we talk about sustainable development goals it's usually at the country level since we last spoke the sustainable development goals and the united nations sustainable development solutions network which is kind of the mook education network that's really responsible for reporting the stgs has done a stg daily real time update where they're taking each of the 17 goals and they're putting those real time updates on actions and how how it's going how how the national commitments are going where is it at just last actually sorry just this week on monday the 14th was the launch of the 2021 stg report normally it's around september but because of the pandemic and many other things they're releasing at early six months into into the year and we're on a country level further behind than we've ever been on the sustainable development goals because of the shift towards the pandemic and and some other other reasons that kind of backed off but if you overlay that with your city's abc and you overlay that with the un global compact and the data around sustainability uh from businesses and organizations that have doubled down and made commitments you actually see that it's more than tripled for businesses and cities doubling down and doing more actions towards the sustainable development goals the paris agreement and esgs uh environmental social governance than ever before and so they're taking up that slack on uh on the country level the problem is is the report was specifically on cut countries reporting and their data but uh tools like what you have on cities abc and those are the real-time index of the stgs are tools that we need to kind of merge together to get this overview where are we where do we stand and how we're progressing and i really love how how you do that and i i thank you for for showing us that now i i do want to touch a little bit on uh for ir which is your book the fourth industrial revolution i'd like you to kind of give us the cliff notes on on why it's important why you originally came out with it and then um and tell us what you're seeing whether it's coming to fruition or how it can help us by by by reading that and give us a little more insight but then i also want you to tickle and tease a little bit about society five oh when you're done with that yeah so this is the book and the c is for our um blockchain ai um iot and fintech and there is reinventing a nation and um so i i build this book actually with the razors saying that is a person from the government of malaysia um so mostly what we we decided to do with this book was mostly a frame for how to so a lot of countries have no idea how to deal with digital digital transformation and my point was okay let's create like a book initially i was writing something much more advanced but then i understood the lack as i started dealing with countries and governments is really alarming the lack of understanding about data and everyone has an opinion but i really don't want and even what is blockchain what is ai and all these different things of course right now i think kovid accelerated that thankfully but they're still we still have a lot of work to do so the fourth industrial revolution looks at society in the perspective of the different uh revolutions that we have and uh what it's trying to do right now is how to look at these revolutions in a way that can actually empowers and the fourth industrial revolution is that one that looks at our society as a more advanced society that uses these societies and it's still a revolution in a lot of ways because it's a key in terms of how the frontier technologies that is mostly the ones i mentioned so blockchain artificial intelligence iot and fintech and these ones are actually under this you have like others all these technologies are disrupting our society but as well creating a cognitive revolution that can actually be taken in a negative way in a positive way but i always like to look at the positive side and i think my point here was okay that's two ways or we take this series and we start working this in the right direction which is the best way to go and if we do this in the right direction we can go 10 times faster as society and that's exactly what this book is about is a is a solution driven book that offers the frame for society that is quite easy to read there's a lot of context a lot of educations and it's straightforward i think for someone that doesn't understand about this is available on amazon and and i think anyone in the planet can read and i think specially can help people tackling some of these issues and i think that's kind of what i'm trying to do is making sure that people look at that in a way that helps but helps as well people understanding that again this is it's something that it's for everyone okay it's not just for people like you and me that are experts and they're working on these areas but someone that this can help everyone and can create a lot of solutions and that's what we try to do with this book it's a book that has a lot of contributions from experts worldwide the academics and i'm actually glad because the book was used as the frame from melasia 5.0 and the concept of melasia 5.0 is actually came from the society 5.0 and the society 5.0 i think it's a more balanced concept than the fourth induced revolution because the fourth induced revolution still looks at society from a perspective of revolution that we have to break to get something new and i don't believe too much and break i think we have more and i'll just share one infographic good idea that i think explains this better than anything even explains the parallel because there's a lot of myths around this and i did of course i've been working on this for a couple of years i'll just share this graphic because i think will help special people listen to us how to how to mostly look at nothing the infographic is quite easy to relate and i'm always trying to do it in a in a very practical way so i think one we we make and actually you are in german were actually the industry 4.0 and actually ironically the concept of industry 5.0 came from a research done in the university of europe with a actually a partner of mine which is actually a small world and um what they it was a student that took this and passed it to the government of of of german and then it became actually the industry 4.0 that became the industry the then the world economic forum took it as well and then became what we have now as the the what we're talking about so i think let me share the screen shortly so this infographic i think explains what we're talking about though the so i think here we have a parallel between the the society 5.0 and the fourth industry revolution so if you look at the the five stages of developing of humanity you have the first stage there was the first humans the dawn of humanity at least the first evolution the part where we have the hunting society the home of sapiens and the coexistence with nature then we went we we spent actually it took like thousands of years until we went to society 5.0 and this was in the 23 21 000 23 000 years before christ and there was an agrarian society was was kind of the society that created the first empires the first tribes and everything else then we went immediately to the 18th century so it took us like thousands of years to go to the society 3.0 but the irony is that in the space of 100 years we had the massive revolutions of the society 3.0 and the first industrial revolution so the space of the society 3.0 we have four revolutions so that that means in the last 100 years we had 104 revolutions that were the biggest in history of humanity and this is very important because when we look at history and this comes back to the tsunamis it is massive because of course in the space of one years we have more revolutions than all the history of humanity but now in the space just in the space of 20 years we have two revolutions and then of course the I mentioned the fourth industrial revolution that is my my book and there's about intelligence diesel transformation big data and all these different things the third one was very related there was the computer internet icth and the emergence of services society so this was in the space of 20 40 years so the point right now is that the society 5.0 and this is something that i'm working um and that's why my book my new book is called society 5.0 magna carta it's about superintelligent consciousness society which is what you preach in your podcast and very well and as well your you mentioned the SDG the SDG so is looking at smart and sustainable circular economic society that looks at AGI so AGI is artificially or augmented general intelligence so which is going to happening as we speak so we are already reaching singularity and we are as well looking at data empowered of smart cities digital twins robotics and augmented open api so that means this is going to help us as humans progress but my focus and that's why i call it magna carta actually i was very glad to have signed a deal with the magna carta island that still exists the actually in the same stone where i attended years ago was signed the the magna carta i signed actually a deal there i'm very proud of that but the magna carta was the first constitution between all the elements so the society 5.0 i think it's a more kind of utopian but as well more pragmatic way of looking at all the challenge of society and that's therefore the magna carta because i believe that magna carta was the first stage where all the different it was the first time in history where all the different kind of at least officially the document all the different parts of society from the kingdom and aristocracy and this was 800 years ago at the time there was no sense of democracy where all of them signed a coexistent treaty so i think that's a very important thing and it created of course the law that we are still using after 800 years so i think this is key for us and and i think i believe on these concepts and that's why i'm actually writing my book about this that's actually only two books in the world written about this and this is a concept that is quite new was developed partly by a lady that is right now one of the directors of OECD worldwide but a new japanese lady but it's really an important concept because i think it's more humanity centric and it touches all the different things but it's about society it's not about technology it's not about revolutions it's not about i think we had enough revolutions we need it right now to evolve as humans so i've actually got four more questions for you before we we wrap it up and and so i'm going to ask you to keep it succinct because we uh we've got to keep it down to a certain time but it's really so we've talked about all these technologies and i'm sure throughout your time of going through all these especially as an activist and being so concerned about human technology humane technology and society have you run into things like um the talk of the heavy energy use in technology especially blockchain and cryptocurrencies and mining and what are your thoughts and feelings on that and then as well as some of these technologies for good for really for good like a DAO a decentralized autonomous organization um i belong with the UN and other organizations to the climate chain coalition and the digital twin for the earth project and the digital ecosystem for the earth and these are ones trying to use emerging pioneering technologies to really give us the heart blood the pulse of our earth and also trying to solve some of these big solutions that we talked about and so i want to know what you're seeing and the heavy energy use around technologies and is that improving as people are people going more to green and then also on the technology itself what are you seeing as some real super solutions to get us over that hurdle into the decades that we need to be in well that's a big question so i'll try to answer as syntactic as possible so i i think on the the energy conception around blockchain technology so i don't think it's a big problem i think it's being solved as we speak there's already a lot of blockchain solutions that are completely green bitcoin is still uh the biggest one that is challenged in the ethereum but even ethereum is already working on that so it's just a question of a couple of years and will be fixed probably one year or two even less um and i don't think even even lms that has been kind of disrupting the market is working as well in some solutions so i believe that that is not the big problem it's not the biggest issues we're facing as humanity but it's being solved um so i think there's a lot of already solutions on that that's point one i think most of the the providers of mining are already looking at solutions that are more sustainable i would say a couple months one year that's that's the point of course there's a lot of things that have to be considered but i think everyone is conscious about that and is very looking at a sense of urgency on that so i'm not worried about it then on the on the energy part i'm i'm quite optimistic for instance i'm working in a project um that is focused on carbon neutral solutions and i think most of the big corporations that i'm a huge uh actually i did a couple videos about esg environmental governance and what sustainability and governance and and the social social ability and and uh and governance i believe that all the companies in the world are conscious about this so i i believe the challenge of course is that that's 440 million SMEs and micro SMEs most of them of course are not conscious of that but the top ones are and the and the most of the government especially right now with the new us uh governance i think we're going to have a bit more of peace on this concept i think people know that we have to work together because we cannot have um a lot of the things happening so i think most and even i think this week was that uh even the biggest uh oil companies are moving to esg kind of solutions and sustainability so and i think partly i think a lot must be the massive revolution with electric cars that that i think at the moment we can have electric planes so so that means if we get everything electric a lot of this use will disappear so i would say i'm actually quite optimistic on that i'm not an expert in the energy but i'm actually quite um i think what is important right now is the continuous education and tackling these solutions from a political policymaking and like you're doing with groups and as well coming up with practicalities because i really i'm a huge policymaking fan but in the end of the day is about how can we get these to the people so i think that's my price synthetic answer to you thank you so much the the biggest and hardest question i have for you today is really the burning question wtf and it's not the swear word although maybe you've said that in this crazy time for the last 15 months it's actually what's the future so what's the future and i mean specifically for you specifically for your companies what is your plan what's your roadmap where are you going and how do you see it so i think for me um of course i as an entrepreneur i have a dilemma between my side as an entrepreneur and my side as as a thought leader and sometimes this and as well as a creative because i write and i draw and i do a lot of creative things so i try to make sure that the three parts of my personality all work together and as well that we create i think the biggest challenge is definitely um i think the wellness and well-being how to deal with all these things and and keep positive mind because it's not easy especially people like us that we are working in different time zones with people all over the world keeping our families keeping our belts i think that's the biggest challenge because we are i think there's enough abundance in the world for everyone to live well and above property levels and i'm actually fighting for that um besides that of course isn't is a is a bridge between our ambition our balance as humans and i think that's the biggest thing and i think bearing that in mind my focus as a company is is to build more sustainable companies that are really related in ecosystems and of course i want to make money as an entrepreneur but the money was not in my drive actually i lost a lot of money because of that so like you like you managed and i created the bank and i got out of zero because i didn't do my contracts well but because i was very focused in making things that things go well um so i of course i want to make sure that we create wealth we create sustainable wealth but at the same time that create value the value is the most important thing for me and i believe that because of that and i think when i go back to that base i find wonderful people to work with i find people like you and we just need to cooperate and finding bridges i believe and you mentioned those decentralized autotoms organizations for instance i work with the sofia the robot and the and some of the team for instance um ben gorsley which is a someone i deeply respect and i profile a couple of times and a good good relationship is that sofia did the did the dow and actually it's interesting that sofia is the first advanced robot that was created non-militar um and it's interesting that they decentralized the the intelligence of sofia and their artificial intelligence in an open ai which is fantastic because that means no one can actually control and it created much better way of of actually saw safeguarding us from the dystopian dictators that can actually use this technology so i believe on that and i believe that uh there's a lot of wealth for everyone i think we i believe in really cooperation i'm working with fantastic people i love my team sometimes i i think i try to calm down as my energy not everyone can cope with my energy but i'm learning how to do that and i apologize to a lot of my team because sometimes not everyone can cope with things but i think that is the point so as a companies right now the three companies we have and we're creating two are all focused on products and products that are really like cities abc open business council and as well fashion abc and intelligence that is more reflection platform so we have the media for reflecting ideas research keeping research is key for me i'm actually writing a lot of things i wrote the book a small ebook about the nfts that we're going to learn soon i i write to learn and do do i write down small videos in my youtube channel but i love to learn and continue learning and i want to make sure that our platforms are these platforms open to humanity and of course anyone can use it and i i would love to have more people cooperating but that is more difficult but we're learning how to do that wonderful if there was one message you could depart to our listeners today as a sustainable takeaway that has the power to change their life what would it be your message well the difficult ones i would say i love the idea of humanity centric and and when i think about humanity centric one of the things that comes to my mind is that you don't want to live in a house full of garbage so i think sometimes when we go from the theory to the practice some people are okay now there's no problem about climate change because it doesn't touch me well it's touching everyone and i think your backyard if you have a house if you're lucky to have a house or even if you have a living room you don't have the garbage in your living room so you don't want as well to go to an ocean and and find that so i think this humanity first but as well practical level of your house look at your house and see do you want your world to be full of garbage do you want it's a very simple thing but it's a very important thing and the quantity of plastic and things so i think the sustainability starts by each of us and you are in german that that is all my german friends were much more advanced i remember than than the rest of the world but as well you're the first ones going for the revolution the forfinish the in your case was the fourth inducer revolution that was very polluting so you went actually 100 years ahead and most of the world so a lot of other countries are picking that so i would say that starting by your house and start thinking a pragmatic level and that for instance i'm actually i'm still not vegetarian but i'm trying to go on that direction and i'm trying to go with things that actually can make a measurement of my own data in a way that can actually so the quantified self but in a way that can actually improve my performance and using if we spend like six hours minimum per day in front of devices let's use that to improve our sustainability so i can use that to learn listen to podcasts like ours and yours is fantastic on that learn and then just have fun you can be running and learning that's the wonderful thing about our time so that's my my notes that's wonderful and yeah i believe on your your podcast our discussion that we had together uh uh it really we talked about that specifically what you said whether you live in a home or an apartment or one room just try never doing the dishes never putting your clothes away never doing your laundry never taking out the garbage never washing a dish never showering uh eventually that just piles up and we are living on this spaceship earth that's a closed system and although it takes because it's a big closed system it takes a little bit longer for us to see the effects but everyone on the world is seeing those effects today but just imagine that times a thousand if you were to do that experiment in your home and i think most of our listeners are wise enough not to have to go through the misery of doing that experience in their home to learn that there are some very short feedback loops and ways to realize that there is some better models to do that and live in that way Dennis i really want to thank you so much for letting me and my guests inside of your ideas and sharing your mind and your thoughts and your work and what you do uh that's all i have for you today and i really appreciate your time and i thank you and uh that's all i have for you unless you wanted to have add one last thing before we say goodbye no no i want to thank you and congratulations for your excellent work i think it's really important that you profile the people you're doing because i learned a lot with the people in profiling but it's really key people for making a better world so congratulations as well in your work and i think we'll be working much more thank you thanks so much Dennis take care talk to you later bye bye thank you so much