 Namaskar. Hi. I am representing camp meditation. What? Camp meditation, I'm like a meditator and kind of I have been... Can you hold this mic closer to your mouth? Can you hear me? Now I can hear... It's not about me and my story but it's a little bit heavy too. Yes. And the thing is there is no doubt about that what you are saying is true and if we are present in the moment this is the meditation. I agree. There are people who are asking about the importance of meditation and you're giving them the answer that meditation is not needed. And then I thought what you are saying is true your energy is real so there is no doubt about that but we have schools then the highest form of yoga is meditation you mentioned Kriya Yoga Mahavatar Babaji used to meditate before he became Mahavatar Babaji the founder of Kriya Yoga so meditation is not nothing and Shiva he somehow propounded to us more or less 112 meditation techniques and what I'm hearing from what you are saying you are already providing us four of his meditations there are meditation techniques for different type of people and I'm wondering do you think that your path is for everybody or is for some select people and if it's for a select people why say meditation is not necessary because we know there are other masters who are enlightened who actually achieve their success through meditation only So I think everyone heard the question right are you all hearing the Devar is your name right? Shiva But you had said another name that day I like Shiva it's my Indian name Okay Yeah why not If you choose enlightenment as your goal if you want to be enlightened and merge with supreme consciousness then this is not the place for you to be it's a clear statement this is not a place to learn enlightenment Why do I say that? Because the merging with the cosmic consciousness results in a detachment from the body itself a detachment from the emotional body the conceptual body etc etc if you want to call what I have suggested the meditation that's wonderful you can call it a meditation for example surrendering to the soul if that is a meditation then that's beautiful then I'm with you when I'm talking about meditation not being necessary and in fact not being good for the system what I'm saying is when you go into deep long hours of meditation you're putting your body into states where the consciousness has to leave the system and move outward rather than expand laterally and into the materiality spirituality itself has a time trajectory that it follows there is knowledge that came 5,000 years ago, 2,000 years ago 1,000 years ago and so on and there are different traditions different masters, different teachers and one has to flow with what is resonating it's not about this teaching it's only for an elite few or it's for everybody it's like a source of water flowing down a mountain it's flowing this water it's flowing you can come and drink at this source you can drink if it's not the water that tastes then it's not the water for you that's what I'm saying but I'm very clear, conceptually clear about the fact that the spirituality quote unquote which is practiced here is one of presence tuning inward to the soul bending down to that soul in surrender surrender is the key word surrender is not your main inspiration that experience of soul will not be there it simply will not be there to your question about the Mahavatar or also others who have attained enlightenment through meditation practices the enlightenment that is attained is an experience of the ultimate Samadhi state which is the state of Nirvikalpa Samadhi without attributes which means we are in a state where we actually don't know that we are there it is a complete dissolution of identity in order to connect with the individualized present soul here within there is no need to make that process it can be and should be circumvented which still doesn't mean if a guru that is teaching meditation comes to me that I will not respect him and love him or her for that this source is saying what this source is saying and what it is clearly saying is no need to take that root into enlightenment it is a historical experiment of consciousness that has fulfilled its course and now what we know about consciousness is that merging with the supreme consciousness alienates the system from its materiality and therefore what is attempted is the actual descent of awareness consciousness whatever those various words we can use for it into the materiality of the system and that cannot happen if we push it outward so any practice whether you want to call it meditation, contemplation or just sitting there or zen any practice that takes you out too long into cosmic states is a practice that is going to alienate you from the materiality of this body and this space which this body inhabits and the entire system and its actions there is no doubt about that no doubt very clear statement of course if you want to take up a meditation practice which appeals to you because you want to explore the cosmos and if it is a calling which is stronger than what is being said here then you will take that course and you will experience what needs to be experienced you know what I mean but when you come back you have to re-enter this body and be present here and now and that presence in the system is what actually makes this system a servant of the impulse of the individualized soul so then the system starts to do what is the truth in every moment it is very very difficult for this system to emerge from truth when the awareness is not present and even if you take up Shiva himself or Mahavatar Babaji or all the great masters that have experienced the enlightenment they've had to come back they've had to reintegrate they've had to self-realize so if you want to self-realize without the aberrations and the circuitous root around enlightenment then just be present here and now this is the body you are in this body you are not out there you are here or you have a chance to go out and see what happens thank you first I would like to say that your energy, your presence, your love is undeniable and even if some things are like maybe creating a friction in my conscious it's still like there is no denial about your presence and your truth and your love and wisdom just one it's not a question but like clarification thing there are different types of meditations and when you speak about Zen Zen is basically to be present in a moment you are now totally in the body feeling your breathing everything is in surrender because meditation is an approach to surrender for the people maybe who are not so loving to begin with so instead of finding that love and soul and feel that depth that you are clearly relating to we are somehow struggling to first of all tolerate what we are and then surrender to the thing because you don't have to surrender it's already happening by itself surrender is an active proactive postural decision that is exactly what the conceptual says no no if I just float I'll be in surrender that is surrender it is not surrender because surrender has an object and a subject surrender is to something you know what yes thank you you know the ego is just that smart it will trick you into believing that what you are doing is surrender but unless you are bending down to something and since you brought up westerners okay the westerners can't bend to a guru outside then bend down to the guru inside at least but without a proactive postural statement it is not a sadhana of surrender whoever it is who has said it it is not an experience of concrete proactive surrender that happens because the results show it is different what happens we are present we are here and now we are bent in surrender to the soul and we are we are feeling that impulse over the noise of the ego whatever system is doing that is beautiful I am with it and we can call it meditation I am good with that as well you know what I mean thank you for your love really inspiring and beautiful and hopefully if you also want to be loving like that then stop wandering out and stay here in prison the bell has rung