 usually I go around the city and talk to a lot of the people and I'm always told by people that they watch the Common Council meetings all the time so we're obviously a good show we have a strong people have a strong interest in the Common Council but there's one in particular that always says as Mr. John Vandermel so I'd like to extend the height of John Vandermel because he's watching right now so hopefully we'll hopefully he'll enjoy tonight's Common Council meeting call it 24th regular meeting of the Common Council to order please call it all. Boren, Bauch, Gisha. Excuse. Hanna, Heidemann, Kittleson, Clowness, Manny, Meyer, Montemayor, Rindfleisch, Ryan, Smith, Vanderwheel, Verhasselt. Excuse. And Wongamon, 14 present. Corms president I may point out that I received a call from Oldman Verhasselt about an hour ago saying that he was still at the airport. He may or may not make it. I did ask him that if he did make it to just please come in and take his seat. Pledge of Allegiance tonight we have a young man, Eric Gregory Feudner, who was aged 13 from troop number 818 who will lead us in the pledge as part of his responsibilities for earning a married badge. Eric? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Thank you, Eric. Next item on the agenda is a pool of the minutes of the last meeting. President Hanna. Well, thank you, Mr. Mayor. I move that the minutes be approved. Second. Motion and second. Under discussion. They're being on. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. The minutes are approved. Next item is confirmation of Mayor's appointments. Attorney McLean. Bill Greenke to be considered for appointment to the business improvement district to fill the unexpired term of Mary Morande whose term expires 910 2010 signed by the mayor. And I need a motion to confirm. Mr. Mayor, I've moved to approve. Second. Motion to second to confirm. Any discussion? There being none. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Appointment is confirmed. Thank you. Public forum. Madam City Clerk. Thank you. First on the list would be Henry Capitillo. Henry, if you could step up to the mic, please. And can I get your home address, Henry? Yes. That's 1619 North 38th Street. And that's in the town of Sheboygan. All right. And you will have five minutes, sir. Okay. Thank you for the opportunity to come before this council to speak on a very important issue, the city Sheboygan financial situation. One thing that Sheboygan has in common with the state of Wisconsin and the U.S. government is that it is struggling to get its financial house in order. All three of these entities are presently spending more money than they have. To make up for their lack of revenue, they raid different sources of money. The U.S. Raids the Social Security Fund. The state of Wisconsin Raids the Transportation Fund. And the city of Sheboygan Raids the Vehicle Maintenance Fund. Wisconsin's assembly speaker, Mike Habish, said it all in the March 14, 2008 Milwaukee Journal sent in a natural news article, I quote, We understand the problem is we're spending too much money. How simple and to the point it is, we are spending too much money. Another thing that all of these entities have in common is their inability to make the tough decisions to cut spending instead of looking to raid other sources of money to balance their budgets. In order to hold down spending, this council has to be consistent when dealing with their spending habits. Do not always approve money for certain departments and consistently deny other departments. Start making a difference in small areas such as salaries. Did you know that the city assessor's starting salary was $56,972 annually? Do you know that the city assessor was hired in June of 2007 and he is presently earning $72,368? A difference of $15,396 from the starting salary. I quote the mayor from the Sheboygan Press Saturday March news article. Judge a salary to be before the council. I treat everyone as fair as I possibly can. The press said when I see an individual who is asking for almost 100% increase in their salary, when they knew full well what the salary was, then when they ran for the office, it's not an easy decision for me to support. It is understandable that the judge is asking for more money. When a person who is working less than one year is earning $15,396 more than their starting salary. When one city employee sees how another city employee is hired and gets $15,396 within less than one year, how can you expect them to not want more money if they are doing a considerably a lot more money than when they started? I quote the mayor again. I treat everybody as fair as I possibly can. I would rather have the mayor saying we try to be consistent with our hiring salaries and wage increases. By being consistent in hiring city employees, all at slightly or above the salary range, you have plenty of future increase margins. I quote the mayor again. When I see an individual who is asking for an increase, almost 100% increase in their salary, then they knew when what the salary was, then when they ran for the office. I would venture to say that the city assessor also knew exactly what the starting salary was. $56,972 annually when he applied for the job. If he applied for the job, then apparently he was willing to work for the salary of $56,972. I think that the city already has enough lawsuits pending that they do not need anymore. How can you justify this kind of inconsistent policy and expect it to make sense? Look at the IT director position. The mayor offered to gear a starting salary of $79,000 and a letter of email to Mr. to gear from Susan Hart saying our current pay plan would provide you with a raise at the end of six months probationary period. The salary structure for 2008 has not been approved, but I would anticipate at the end of your probationary period, your salary would go to $81,762. In January 2009, you would see both an across the board and merit increase that if mirrors previous years would take your salary to approximate $86,936. So your salary would increase nearly $8,000 in 13 months. She further goes on to say, please remember the city pays 12.2% of your gross salary into the state retirement. According to my calculations, that would be $10,606 annually. Not bad since the city of Sheboygan has so much money that they can afford to do with what they have. I now hear that the council is also looking to increase the mayor's salary. How much will this salary go up? $15,000, $20,000? I also hear that the Department of Public Works is also looking to hire six new people and that the money to pay these individuals is not even in the public works budget. How can you look to approve the hiring of six new workers and not even have the money in your budget to do so? Remember when Senior President Bush was accused of using voodoo economics, apparently that is what is being used in the city of Sheboygan. I do not have an opinion on whether a city employee should or should not get a pay increase, but one thing I can tell you is to be consistent and fair in dealing with all city departments and when it comes to setting salaries and wage increase. You are going to hold the line on spending. Excuse me, Henry, would you like your extra minute? Yes. Excuse me, thank you. If you're going to hold the line on spending, then be consistent and say no to every city department who wants to spend more than what is in their budget. I can remember when I came before this council and asked for you to look at the police department budget, apparently some of you did not have a problem saying no to the police department. Closing, I would like to compliment the older persons who voted not to give themselves a raise in this, this is the kind of leadership that is needed during these tough economic times that all cities find themselves in. Contrary to some opinion, you can attract good educated, intelligent individuals to run for city council positions. You can attract people like Ed Suric, who has a master's degree in business administration, numerous years of experience in the private sector, and eight years of employment with the city of Sheboygan. Thank you very much. Thank you. Alderman, I would say to the public also that anyone can stand up here and say what they want and they're free to make their conclusions. But some conclusions can be arrived at with the wrong data or not enough data. And also, Mr. Cup, with you in the future, politics for candidates is not allowed in the public forum as you just did indirectly. It would really be appreciated. I think everyone's aware of the candidates. That's not necessary. We're happy that you're able to share your opinions with us. And if you need information to make sure that you have everything that you need, please feel free to call my office. You haven't yet, once in all three years. And I'll be glad to give you the correct information so that you can arrive at the right conclusions. Thank you. Next. Steve Majestra. And Steve, could you give us your home address, please? 580-Yulio. It's U-L-A-O-R-O-D, Grafton, Wisconsin. Oh, OK. And you will have five minutes, sir. Thank you. You're welcome. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for listening to me. And my name is Steve Majestra with Mad Max Incorporated. We purchased a property back in October on 14th in Illinois, which was a quality state oil gas station convenience store. Since we purchased that location, I've talked with community development, law and licensing, both community development and law and licensing have already looked at our preliminary drawings for that site. It's going to be a raise and rebuild of approximately 6,000 square foot building. I believe tonight you will be looking at something from law and licensing for a change in the policy to help us rebuild that location and beautify 14th in Illinois. I just wanted to present myself to you, introduce myself to you, and hope that you will support what we'd like to do on that site. That's it. Thank you. Thank you very much. And last on our list would be Janice Maxwell. Is Janice here? Oh, I actually see this one. Oh, okay. So we're just doing you. Okay. That's it then. Thank you very much, Madam City Clerk, and thank you to both individuals that addressed the council tonight. Next item on the agenda is a consent agenda items 24-1 to 24-27. President Hanna. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I would move that all ROs be accepted and placed on file, and that all RCs be accepted and adopted. Second. Motion and second. Under discussion. There is none. Please call the roll. Boren. Aye. Bauch. Aye. Hanna. Aye. Heidemann. Aye. Kittleson. Aye. Clioness. Aye. Manny. Aye. Meyer. Heidemann. Aye. 14 ayes. Motion carries. Communications and petitions. Alderman Meyer. I'll let you continue. I wanted to address that one. Communications and petitions to be referred 24-28. Alderman Meyer. Thank you, Your Honor. I would like to make a motion to file this communication. Second. Motion and second to file 24-28. Under discussion. Yes, Your Honor. Under discussion. These issues have been addressed, and we are also moving into a very gray area when we're discussing people's personal health issues. We are treading on the HIPAA laws, and I think we should just file this right now. Thank you. Any further discussion? Motion to file. Alderman? No, thank you, Mr. Mayor. I guess I'd like clarification from the city attorney to do, probably more familiar with the HIPAA laws than we are, is something that in the act of providing customer service we need to look at, or something that we really need to not even look at because of the protections of the Privacy Act and the HIPAA Act. Your Honor McLean. I don't know that HIPAA would be a concern. Mr. Hutz is submitting concerns about the plan to the council publicly. He's the one asking for the review. It's not to say you have to send it to any committee, but to the extent he or the committee were to discuss personal health issues, either he would be able to wave his right to privacy if he's willing to do that, or it could be discussed in closed session if the committee was desirous of hearing what he had to say. So I don't see that you couldn't send it to the committee and discuss it, but you certainly don't have to. Thank you. Next we have Alderman Boat. Thank you, Your Honor. Mr. Holt brings up some pretty significant concerns, and if we can get around the privacy issues, there would be a question for the chairman of that committee if that chairman thinks it's important to discuss these things in a public forum. I think that it should not be filed. I suspect that it probably should be forwarded if we can get around privacy, and he brings up some pretty significant concerns in here. Your Honor, thank you. Thank you. I think that from what I recall, a lot of those issues have been resolved, too, but... Vice President Boer? Thank you, Your Honor. Mr. or Mrs. Hutz are constituents of mine, and before I sent this on, I suggested referring it to the group health committee, and he was fine with that, so I'm just following my constituents' wishes by forwarding this to the committee, and I think it would be a good opportunity for Mr. or Mrs. Hutz and other city employees at the next group health meeting, which I guess is maybe next week, to come in and cover these issues because it's been a rough transition from humana to rightsors. So I'm going to be voting not to file. Alderman Ryan? Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I concur with both Alderman Bauch and Alderman Boren. If Mr. Hutz wants this disgusting committee, and if he's consented to this, I believe it should be so. Alderman Meyer? Thank you, Your Honor. Just to say to everybody here, these issues have all been addressed at every department. Humana has been there with representatives every week to talk to employees. The retired employees have also been instructed to contact Susan Hart with issues, and also to contact Humana. I just don't see the need to continue talking about this at any kind of committees. We've been discussing this for months already. These issues have been addressed, and I would think Mr. Hutz would care to talk to Humana or Ms. Susan Hart, and all this stuff would be clarified. President Hanna, is that your recollection? Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I received the email from Mr. Hutz. Also, I think the vast majority of his issues have been addressed by Susan Hart and by Humana. If you want to refer to my committee, I'm happy to put it on my agenda and address it again. But most of them have been. Thank you. Alderman Kiddelsen. Thank you, Your Honor. I guess I would just like to say to why not just refer it to the Group Health Insurance Committee, let those issues be talked about there too, and if they are resolved, all the better, and then we can go on from there. But I think Mr. Hutz should be able to be heard and make sure that those issues are cleared up. Thank you. Alderman Longman. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I can't really see any reason why we shouldn't refer it on to the committee. Even if these questions have already been answered, then it shouldn't take them very long to solve this. I guess I would like to see it brought before this insurance group so that it can be looked into more thoroughly. Thank you. Thank you. Any more? Want to motion to file? Please call the roll. And I vote would be to file. Everybody understand that? Bauch? No. Hannah? No. I'm sorry. No. Thank you. Heidemann? No. Kittleson? No. Clioness? No. Manny? No. Meyer? Aye. Montemayor? Aye. Rindfleisch? No. Ryan? No. Smith? No. Manderweal? No. And Wongaman? Alderman Boran. No. Thank you. I'm so sorry. But you have your vote. I did have your vote down. Yes, I did. How did I know that? So we're sending this to group health then? Yes. Thank you. That's listed. Motion fails 2428 will be referred to group health insurance. Report of officers to 2429. Lies over to May 5th. 2430 to 2449. To be referred. Resolutions introduced 32450 by Alderman Hanna. Authorizing intern into a contract to produce and perform a pyrotechnic display on Independence Day. President Hanna? Well, thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'm going to ask for the rules to be suspended because if we contract with them in a timely fashion, we'll receive a 5% discount. So I'd make a motion to suspend the rules. Second. Is there any objection to the motion to suspend? Then just proceed with a motion to pass the resolution. Mr. Mayor, I would make a motion to put the resolution upon its passage. Second. Motion in second. Put 2450 upon its passage under discussion. It'll be none. Please call the roll. Hanna? Aye. Heidemann? Aye. Kittleson? Aye. Meyer? Aye. Montemayor? Aye. Rinfleisch? Aye. Ryan? Aye. Smith? Aye. Vanderweal? Aye. Wongamon? Aye. Boran? Aye. Bulk? Aye. 14 ayes. Motion carries. 2451 by Alderman Hanna, Boran, Gisha, and Bulk. Authorizing a transfer of appropriations in the 2008 budget. Establishing revenue and appropriations for donations to the junior police academy and establishing appropriation for financial management information system from information technology on reserved retained earnings. President Hanna? Well, thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'm going to also make a motion to suspend the rules on this. But first, I wanted to explain that if we contract with the software company in a timely fashion, i.e. before the end of this month, we'll receive a $45,000 discount to the price. So it is, there's consent that we want to move ahead with this software provider. And if we can move in a timely fashion, there's significant dollars to be saved. So I'd make a motion to suspend the rules. Second. Motion and second to suspend. We'll take a roll call on this for the motion. You want to take a motion? Is there any objection? Because we don't need to make a motion to just ask for suspension. That's all right. Is there any objection to suspension? There being none, please call a roll. I need a motion to put the resolution. I'd make a motion to put the resolution upon its passage. I've got you all confused. Motion and second to put $24.51 upon its passage. Any discussion? There is none. Please call a roll. Heidemann? Hi. Kittleson? Hi. Cleunas? Hi. Manny? Meyer? Hi. Montemayor? Hi. Vanderweel? Hi. Wongerman? Hi. Boran? Hi. Bauch? Hi. And Hannah? Hi. 14 ayes. Motion carries $24.52 by Alderman Hannah, Boran, Gisha, and Bauch. Authorize and enter into a contract for the financial management information assistance project. And that is just to follow up with $24.51. Yes. And just to be consistent, I'll need to suspend the rules. I'd make a motion to suspend. Any objection to that? There is none. Alderman Hannah? Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'd make a motion to put the resolution upon his passage. Second. Motion in second. Under discussion. Alderman Rehnfleisch. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I see on the one we just passed, $24.51, we're coming, taking $175,000 out for the software out of the unreserved retaining earnings, something that's already existing within the budget. I do not see in $24.52 for the $663,595 where that's actually is coming from. That can be clarified. Provisional. I have numbers in front of me, but there are isolated all those dollars. Sorry. Public's watching. Yes. I don't have that data in front of me, but yes, all those dollars have been allocated appropriately. Okay. Thank you. Alderman Kittleson. Thank you, Your Honor. I guess, you know, this is a lot of money that we're spending. And I'm just not sure that we have enough information here. I guess even if it couldn't presentation be made at the committee of the whole level to let us know how we're going to be spending this money, which departments are involved. I just think that our constituents should know this before we vote on such a huge amount of money. Thank you. President Allen. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I would ask that we open the floor to the department head for IT. Is there a motion? Is there a second? Second. Motion and second. Any discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion carries. We actually didn't need that. But to your department head. I should probably run for office, right? Just kidding. But this particular software package, the intent of it is to replace the current AS-400 green screen text-based system that you have in the system here. Can you get a little closer? Oh, I'm sorry. The intent of this software is to replace the AS-400 green screen text-based system that has been here in the city since 1982. A big portion of why we're trying to replace this software obviously is that long term there's a huge potential cost saving in terms of maintenance and the ability to support this particular application as we move into the future. What you're going to have on here is that eventually most of the people who are well versed with the support of this particular software will no longer be available. So what we need to do is safeguard the finance and the ability of the city to remain viable as we move through the future. We have President Hanna and then I'll explain this. Thank you very much. Thank you. Can you explain a little bit to the people at home the process that you went through in determining the appropriate? Sure. What the city did as a whole was that there was a committee that was put together made up of internal department heads. As part of that process an RFP was submitted to multiple vendors and based on that listing of vendors that return response to the RFP back to the city we made a selection of four separate vendors. Based on those four particular vendors we went through and did online demonstration of those particular software. After that the final two candidates was selected based on functionality, cost and usability within what the city was trying to accomplish. Based on that after that we went to and looked at two current install site of this particular software. We went through and looked at one of the particular software was installed the city of Wauwatosa. There was another one that we went through that had the installation at the city of Wauwatosa and then based on those site visits and all the information that we had we invited the preferred vendor to come on site here to do a two-day demonstration with various representative throughout the city. Within that you had individual pretty much from every department that participated in the selection process of this software. And then based on input that we were able to gather from those individual we made the selection of that particular software. All in place. Thank you, Your Honor. I had a question at least this as being a financial management information system that will this will not cover than human resources because I can believe that's the other department that needs to have a revamping. This particular software package would not only replace the financial software which is the accounting side of it it will also replace the human resources software to as well and in conjunction with the building inspection and the permit enforcement module within the software itself as well. Thank you. Your Honor, Ryan. Mr. Lee, this software you said this is being used in the city of Wauwatosa. It's being used in the city of Beloit. It's also being used. That's the comparative we didn't choose. Is this being used in other municipalities in the state of Wisconsin? Yes. The city of Beloit is comparable. Oshkosh is also using this software. The city of La Crosse is also using this software and West Bend is also using the software to as well. Thank you, Your Honor. Then this new software does that include all the departments for that money? Are we including like the city clerk and the city assessor? Is everybody connected? Eventually it will be. Those additional departments are actually like different functionality different module within the system. Over this year and the next year we plan to replace everything within the city with this new information system. Within this budget? Not this year but next year. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Your Honor. And instead of this sort of Frankenstein monster we've kind of created over the years and in the future this will become very plug and play, right? When we want a city clerk module we'll buy that module and just plug it in. That is correct. We will no longer do customized software development as you see it today. So everything that we do as a city for the sake of cost saving will be commercial off the shelf software and system. What that means is that you will buy it off the shelf and you plug it into the system. You configure it to run the way you want to build out specific functionality just for unique purposes. Thank you, Your Honor. And are you planning on beginning this process immediately? The moment we get it done today we're starting tomorrow. You're starting tomorrow and are you going to need more people in place in order to implement this? No. We're going to implement it with the people that we have in-house. And you'll be able to accomplish that? Yes. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Just to point out that there has been a considerable amount of work bought, site locations, input put into this project it just didn't happen just recently. There will be no more input 2452 there's a motion to put the resolution upon its passage. Please call the roll. Kittleson, Cleonis Manny Meyer Rindfleisch Smith Vanderweel Wangeman Boren Bulk Hannah and Heidemann 14 ayes. Motion carries 2453 to 2457 Lies over 2428 I mean 2458 to 2465 to be referred report of committee 6 2466 to be referred report of committee 7 2467 by law and licensing recommend in denying taxicabs driver's license number 7787 based on public safety concerns lost of driver's license and violations related to the licensed activity Vice President Boren Thank you Your Honor. I move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted. Motion in second to adopt under discussion. Under discussion Your Honor is Julia Locke here tonight. She's not here Your Honor. Please proceed thank you. Ms. Locke appeared before our committee last Tuesday and because of the fact that she's going to be losing her driver's license we decided not to grant the taxicab driver's license. Thank you Vice President Boren any more discussion there being none please call the roll. Clioness Manny Meyer Montemayor Rinflaich Ryan Smith Vanderweel Longamann Boren Bulk Hanna Heidemann and Kittleson 14 ayes. Motion carries 2468 by law and licensing recommending denying beverage operators license number 7798 based on the applicant's ineligibility to hold the license. Vice President Boren Thank you Your Honor. I move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted. Motion in second under discussion. Under discussion Your Honor is Bernie Weoyak here tonight It's not here Your Honor Thank you please proceed Mr. Weoyak contacted the Deputy City Attorney Adams and voluntarily withdrew his application because he's ineligible for the license because of his criminal record. Thank you Vice President Boren any further discussion there is none please call the roll. Manny Meyer Montemayor Rinfleisch Ryan Smith Vanderweel Wongamann Boren Bulk Hanna Heidemann Kittleson and Kleyunas 14 ayes. Motion carries 2469 by law and licensing recommending adopting the revised policy state on issuance of original Class A intoxicating liquor licenses. Vice President Boren. Thank you Your Honor I move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted. Motion in second under discussion Thank you Your Honor This topic took up a considerable amount of discussion time at the last two law and licensing meetings and we took a vote at the last law and licensing meeting and this change in policy was got a unanimous approval. Thank you Any further discussion there is none Alderman Ryan Thank you Mr. Mayor I just question this change in policy basically from what I understand we have two liquor licenses as far as retail liquor licenses left in this city I was formerly in the convenience store business in this city I'm now out of it I don't have an interest in this field I question granting one of only two liquor licenses we have to a multi-use convenience store facility being that this could be something in the future that could actually add significantly to the tax base of this city and also I also question whether it is a fair playing field with only two licenses left in the city two existing convenience store owners in this city I wasn't aware of this situation until this evening but when I just look at it on the surface there are questions that come to mind for myself like I said I was in this business I am no longer in this business in the city of Sheboygan I have no interest in this but I do question whether having only two retail liquor licenses left in the entire city whether we want to grant one of those for this purpose so that's all I have to say thank you Thank you Thank you Mr. Mayor Alderman Ryan for his comments I think they got to the heart of the matter of what we've been discussing for two very long meetings in law and licensing so thank you for your comments they're very prescient and insightful what we're really looking at with this one is that we have had three licenses available for quite some time there has not been a need of development there has been a request for that until recently we're actually further on in our agenda that will lie over and be referred to law and licensing again the policy in front of the older persons present here is basically the policy that did exist and keep in mind there's a difference between policy and ordinance there is no ordinance on the city books prohibiting a convenience store some place that has food and gas pumps from having a liquor license as well a state ordinance state law as well but the policy is something that we direct the committee itself votes at the beginning of every session to say this is what we think it's for those people that do the work for us city clerk's office city attorney's office how do they know the direction we'd like to go in so basically the first full page you see there up to basically item number one is the current policy and that we request that we have separate interior space separate from the rest of the store gate or other apparatus that can be closed off and secure that the liquor area between 9 and 8 9 p.m. and 8 a.m. intoxicating liquor versus fermented malt beverages that's a different policy keep in mind that we're looking at the hard liquor and wine a separate man registered checkout that is already in place and the layout must be complied with all optical code requirements and the policy here that overrides the state codes and the codes that we have for developing the area so those are already in existence for places we currently have places that are not in compliance with that item number one addresses that sorry I was looking at the south side of town was annexed into the city and is currently for sale with a new owner if we did not pass number one that person is basically here 401k the blood sweat and tears of all those years of work would be for nothing he wouldn't be able to sell his business because the new business owners under the policy would not be able to buy the business from him and new owners wouldn't buy it if they couldn't actually use it for the current use would you restrict it then to anything that's current class a premise as long as no material changes so he could not open a game room video arcade room attached to that that was materially changed business itself would have to sort of stay as he is and then we have had proposals one of which is in front of us today even mine will not be discussing or voting on the actual proposal in front of you for the Mad Max convenience store rather on a current policy he can't even apply because it's immediately turned down that's why we're looking for a change in the policy so that we can at least look at the proposal and decide if we're going to vote for it in committee or not but we can't really ignore the fact that what we're looking at is something that's specific to a neighborhood that I think is very underserved right now people who live there do not have vehicles do not have cars do need to take the bus or other modes of transportation to get to grocery stores on the far north side or the far south side we do not have anything in the middle here if you look closely at that what we are looking at is something that would be meaning grocery store if you will with the fuel pumps serve a section of the community and would be a large investment into the city that Alderman Ryan is looking for I think it's a good use of that because it does add tax based something that's currently abandoned an empty land in a very small convenience store so I think in terms of what we're looking at I think it really does benefit the city benefits the neighborhood this development will not happen unless we do change at least the policy so we're not just simply looking at one and the other thing that this policy does is create for the future because we have exceptions to the rules right now at least we create a policy that says we will allow gas pumps but it will have to be at least 3,000 square feet a larger building it does have to have all four of those it has to be separately gated it has to be separately staffed with a separate cash register so I think in general we would be promoting even those with existing liquor license to grow their stores invest in their buildings, make a larger building at least with that one that's available we will be able to really hold out until someone has the right plan keep in mind that the committee still has the last say on the licenses being granted or not if we're not in agreement with the proposed use of the building or the structure just because they fit the 3,000 square feet doesn't mean it has to be granted the best interest of the neighborhood and the best interest of the city so I urge you to support this quite frankly I would love to see that building in that area be developed and changed I think it would be a nice addition to part of the city that is underdeveloped right now I look forward to the tax revenues that it would generate for the city and I look forward to working with Steve and Jess who I've met several times and definitely has I think the city's best interest in taking from the neighborhood but actually gives me back to that neighborhood as well thank you thank you honor now this could be seems kind of confusing to me kind of back and forth but from what I understand what we're doing tonight is we're not granting the license we're giving the committee the tool to possibly give the license to this company if it feels fit to possibly grant the license because right now we can so all we're doing is approving the policy that they had governing themselves to begin with and then if they do approve it say yeah you can license it still comes to council and this council still has the final approval so all we're doing tonight is saying yeah possibly we'll give you the license maybe we're not granting anything thank you okay no further discussion please call roll Meyer Montemayor Ryan Smith Wangeman Boren Hannah Kittleson Clayunas and Manny 13 ayes one no motion carries 2470 to be referred report of committees eight by public works uh... to whom was referred resolution number two twenty six oh seven oh eight well when geisha and hannah authorizing to pay off of the nineteen ninety seven city of shibuya and callable marina bond sends a document to the common council with no recommendation alvin mayer thank your honor i make a motion to file the resolution seeing that the committee could not come to an agreement one way or the other we were at a stalemate motion and second under discussion being on on the right thank you mister mar understand the stalemate but i think you give a rundown at least a little bit of the discussion at hannah summary the c the fours and against this and where we came to where we couldn't quite get over the hill on that i'd love to hear some discussion from the committee on that thank you on my thank you your honor um... basically we were saying the same thing to um file it but we're both saying it in a different fashion uh... we need more we would like to see this looked into further as far as refinancing the bond and that was basically what we came down to uh... alderman ryan had a different version of it but we just still cannot come to any conclusion on it so it comes with no recommendation and we have to move on from there ryan thank you mister mayor indeed i i did not want to see it filed because i didn't want to see it just die uh... that's why i did not make a recommendation to file i believe it does need to be looked into uh... more in depth as far as possibly refinancing uh... the the bond uh... and i i did not want to uh... take uh... possibly uh... borrowing from the motor vehicle fund off the table uh... because if it makes financial sense to do so to save the city money i think uh... there's no reason to file it and therefore that's why we had a stalemate in our committee because we only had four people present thank you your honor trying to recall is it has the motor vehicle committee fund committee or marina harbour come back with an opinion yet so i don't believe we haven't financed president thank you mister mayor uh... the marina and harbour committee came back with uh... an affirmative motion on it the finance committee is still waiting to hear from our investment consulting group that's coming up on the twenty-fourth and the motor uh... motor vehicle fund which consists of myself and all the person of myer we haven't met yet but we will so if we uh... if we file this this evening then that doesn't make me in the resolutions that it will still come back could come back because of the committee's very good thank you sir for malady all the matter thank you your honor uh... just to be clear on the marina harbour committee they did recommend to move forward with this but they also recommended that we look into refinancing because they did not want to hurt public works if that money is truly needed in that department thank you for the clarification any more discussion thank you i'm on public works but i was not at that meeting i was out of town obviously i think it might be appropriate to refer it back to public works in doing that i want to make sure that public works is clear with enough information that they would funnel through the channels so that when information and recommendations marina and finance are here in the council that the appropriate input from public works would also be current and up to date and as significant as possible thank you was that a motion? it's now a motion to what? refer it back to committee motion to refer back to committee and there was a second under discussion of treatment leave uh... thank you your honor my only comment was you know this happens when documents are referred to multiple committees you've got a report from one that's really no recommendation but i disagree i think if you file this resolution tonight you're killing it in all the other committees too that's the same document you know if you're if you want to wait i think you ought to wait to get the input from the various committees and one way to do that would be to refer it back to public works have further discussion there and then you're also have an opportunity to get the input from the other committees that haven't reported out on it one of the things that i see happening a lot is there are some older men sometimes for good reason or i should say all the time for good reason to don't show up to a meeting and everything is being held and rerun and rehashed over and over because somebody didn't show up uh... it gets pretty difficult to do business that way after a while there are a lot of all women that obviously came back to meetings but that's why we have a quorum if there's three people they are entrusted to make decisions for the body and move on it's very very difficult to just keep sending things back after someone doesn't show up to meetings next we have all the vote thank you your honor uh... she lost my thought uh... so i'll wing it uh... mister capitol was clearly concerned that we might be rating i think his word was raiding the motor vehicle fund so in order to keep everything very public and so that mister capitol can sleep easy at night i appreciate uh... uh... alderman manning's request to send it back i think it's absolutely appropriate i think it would be absolute craziness for us to weigh in on a one point three or four million dollar opportunity and not have an opinion from the committee that has absolute investment in what happens to that so uh... for my part your honor it's a no-brainer to send it back to the uh... public works committee and i appreciate alderman manning's request i'm sorry go ahead that's it and i appreciate alderman manning uh... wanting to be a part of that decision thank you very much uh... oman ryan thank you again mister mayor there are times uh... being uh... part-time alderman that people cannot make meetings uh... alderman manning for one i know makes every meeting that uh... that uh... he humanly can uh... he was not able to be at this meeting i believe this is a very important issue and therefore i believe it should be referred back to committee thank you any more discussion on the motion to refer back there is not all in favor say aye any opposed motion carries twenty four seventy-two by finance recommended terminating tax incremental finance in district number eight and authorizing the city deputy finance director treasurer to distribute excess increment to overlying taxing districts president howe thank you mister mayor uh... first i'd like to move to accept and adopt the rc and then put the resolution upon his passage motion and second under discussion none please call a role onto mayor rinflash ryan smith vander wheel longman boron bauk hannah heidemann kittleson clioness manny thank you and myer fourteen eyes motion carries i need to go back a little bit here to twenty four seventy one i'd like to city attorney clarify something for me that's confusing mister attorney or city attorney are you saying that it a resolution or an ordinance is referred to two or three committees more than one and the first one that comes in causes an action that's the action that will prevail over every one of them yes it's the same document if uh... the council files that resolution the resolution is dead and if the council passes that resolution passes right even though it's still in the other committees you know the action has taken and that's why you get in the council has to be careful i think when you do have multiple referrals that if you do want to get all the input of the committees one comes in earlier than the other if you have an opportunity to wait should probably wait till all the various referrals come to the council and then take action because once you take action you take an action on the one document uh... granted it's gone to different committees but the council action is the final action on that document thank you and you seem to recall instances where that didn't happen all right thank you ronner i just have a quick question um... i was also at the marina and harbour that document is not here tonight and that one came in with the favorable recommendation where is that document so we would have had two documents tonight one for one against then what would have happened and i'm i'm confused as to where that document is i don't know where where the document is well and again that's a good instance we have to be very careful because i mean i know i think i can remember i think i can dig them up instances where this has happened before and that is not killed debate action in other committees it continues to go around and if we would have had two the one that gets it first whichever has the most road is going to get it this is why it's very important and i'm going to look at this tomorrow and hopefully provide some answers for you but i trust what attorney mclean saying but i seem to remember somewhat vivid this has happened before where an action that the council has taken does not automatically kill other action that comes forth later so please keep that in mind moving on ordinances introduced ten twenty four seventy three lies over twenty four seventy twenty four seventy four and seventy five to be referred matters laid over eleven twenty three sixty and are all all number five twenty three oh seven oh eight by the city clerk submitted a communication from sheboygan memorial post number ninety one fifty six requesting permission to hold their annual bear with me i have a hard time saying this their annual buddy poppy drive may two thousand eight president thank you mister mayor moved at the r-o-b accepted and placed on file motion the second to file under discussion there is none all in favor say aye any opposed motion carries twenty three forty four resolution number two twenty nine oh seven oh eight by alderman want the mayor mire and boron approving the fiscal two thousand eight one year annual action plan for the community development block grant program submission all month and i don't thank you your honor i'm moved the resolution be put upon its passage motion and second under discussion there is none please call rin flash ryan smith vander wheel wongamon boron balk hannah heidemann kittleson plainness manny mire and monta mayor thirteen eyes one extension motion carries twenty three forty five resolution number two thirty oh seven oh eight by oldman boron plainness gisha balk authorizing to purchase an agent to enter into contract for the purchase of a signed plotter all vice president boron thank you your honor i'm moved that the resolution be put upon its passage motion and second under discussion under discussion your honor i'd like to make an amendment uh... to the resolution which i passed out to the older persons and and uh... i believe uh... you all have a copy of it and the amendment is as follows an amendment directing mister bill bitner director of public of the public works department to establish a policy for the public works department that any specialty signed manufactured by the public works department for any third party have a price markup consistent with area private sector sign companies to include the cost of materials design time and labor labor to include cost of wages health insurance and pension to produce the sign in the spirit of sh in the spirit of shared services the shabuigan school district or local government entities will receive a five percent discount on signed prices further a draft of this policy is to be presented by mister bitner to the public works committee and the finance committee by may twelfth two thousand and eight for approval so i make that amendment you need a motion to motion i need a motion motion and second under discussion on the amendment uh... president hannah thank you i would i agree with the amendment but i'd also add uh... for local non-profits to also receive the courtesy of the five percent discount can we can we go okay thank you all men that will thank your honor uh... mike i agree with the amendment i guess my question is how often do we give signs to other local entities and if if it is quite often why only five percent you know for sure services i think we should go a little bit more and just off top my head i'm thinking ten percent twenty five percent it depends on how often it happens because i know in public works a lot of times we i'm sorry public protection safety a lot of times we ask them to put signs up for the safety if we're going to charge them and only give them a five percent discount i think that might be a problem problematic vice president borne thank you your honor uh... maybe we could open up the floor to mister bitner on this issue uh... the reason the reason i wanted a policy to be made on this issue is because this new sign plotter that we're purchasing for public works is a very sophisticated uh... sign machine and when word gets out that the city has this i think there's probably going to be a lot more opportunities for public works to make signs for other government entities and i think it's good to have a policy in place you know if that eventuality happens but in order to answer all of them and release question as far as how often or how many signs we're making mister maybe mister bitner could address that if we'd open up the floor to him mister mister bitner your department head please come up good evening i can't add a lot to what uh... all the more is already indicated that uh... uh... we share resources obviously with some of the other local governments particularly the county basic signs and those type of things in which we both have access to this much more inventory question i think all of them all of them resolution already indicates this is about specialty signs as opposed to this things we use every day uh... we do not make a lot of specialty signs because we don't have that capability at the moment so it this really comes from a speculation that we're greatly increasing our capability to make things such as the blue harbor directional signs are way finding signs and when that happens there's some opportunity this was discussed in a couple different committees that that opportunity be captured i guess and we both make our capability available but also uh... use it as a little bit of a revenue stream and i think that's the intent here thank you mister bitner all right mister uh... park where i guess a question on on uh... what defines third-party uh... i could think of specific specifically when both construction is going on and michigan avid indiana at the new business drive when businesses that we are really can be harming because traffic is closed off and see signs out on the barricade saying for access to such as business turn right and turn left again often i can definitely see them bring their logos out so people know what business they're talking about would that be under the policy or that be something that we would still be building them for all right uh... thank you mister mayor we we did discuss this in public works and and i think what we're referring to is basically intergovernmental entities in other words the city doing work for the county uh... that is your third party it is not uh... it is not between departments in the city city doing work for the county city doing work for uh... any other entity that is not within the city that would be your third party now as far as the five percent markup i don't know if that is appropriate a five percent discount because uh... dealing between the county in the city uh... truthfully dealing from bureaucracy to bureaucracy a five percent discount i just assume go elsewhere and get it on the outside for five percent more and probably speed up the whole process normally so i i i i think that possibly that five percent uh... might be you know might not be appropriate as far as a discount rate because we may just uh... price ourselves right out of the market i'm doing any outside work with the system uh... what that number is i i do not know but uh... i think it should probably be greater than five percent for uh... work uh... to other government entities thank you honor instead of rushing through this tonight and possibly making a mistake or you know not looking into it as much as we should be i'm gonna make a motion to send this to finance so that they can look at the uh... the discount and look at the non-profits if there's any problems any complications that we may be looking at there's a motion in second to send it to finance on the motion to refer to finance any discussion i guess the issue is this is just an amendment to this contract by a sign plotter and i don't know if you want to hold up by the side water if you do that's fine then refer the whole thing but it's really a separate issue and maybe if what you want to do is have discussion at public works on your next agenda regarding this topic you just you know uh... file the amendment act on the sign plotter and come up with the clean policy that has nothing to do with actually buying the side plotter well remember we'll follow up i thought that's what you meant you wanted to send the whole thing based on that information i'll retract my motion and uh... i trust it will either go to finance or public works for the discussion the simple i think there's two issues here one issue is do we buy a sign plotter i think everybody's in agreement with that let's move that on the amendment uh... can can be uh... if it needs to be an amendment that's fine but it also can be uh... directed later on to to mister bittner and be put on the agenda by public works and then discuss and then send back to the council for approval two separate things you got a policy and you got the purchase of a plotter however you want to do it president hannah thank you mr. mayor vice president borne was neck and go apologies i would uh... suggest that we move ahead with purchasing the plotter they've waited a year and a half to get this piece of equipment and then if we need to establish policy at a later date that's terrific vice president borne thank you ronner uh... the last the last directive here and i i don't first of all i don't have a problem with mister bittner coming back with a different discount or no discount this is just a recommendation and what i'm what i'm asking that mister bittner be directed to do is come up with a policy using some of these guidelines the five percent discount is not carved in stone whatever he comes up with and he's already instructed to bring back a policy to public works and finance by may twelve so this gives him from now until may twelve to come up with this policy bring it back to the committees the committees will take a look at it and vote yay or nay and then it'll come back to this body for final approval so he kind of has his marching orders in a time frame to do it in already so i would just assume proceed with this amendment tonight so mister bittner can get working on this and come back with a policy by may twelve and i have a legal question turn McLean is this amendment to the uh... resolution just thinking about the difficulty in having two separations is this amendment germane to the motion uh... it's certainly questionable whether it is or not uh... and i had that concern begin with as well uh... i don't really see the tie into buying the sign plotter i i understand the object about establishing a policy for its use but uh... it really is uh... a separate issue and uh... i guess as a compromise alderman born would it be okay then to go ahead and proceed with authorizing the purchase and then having a document come in that will be referred to public works direct and public works and the director to come up with a policy i have no problem with that as long as it eventually gets also referred back to finance no problem with that either i don't think anybody has a problem anybody want to nod their heads we're okay okay so we're taking we have alderman cleanness cleanness, alderman cleanness yeah i just said point of order i think we need to vote on the resident amendment isn't that what's on the floor right now we have a motion uh... to adopt this or pass this amendment yeah so right now if i recall the question on the amendment wait we're about to if you don't mind the discussion was germane to the amendment alderman renflash on the amendment no thank you mr. chairman uh... mr. mayor excuse me uh... you actually stole my thunder on the question of is the uh... is the amendment itself germane to the resolution in france so thank you for bringing that up you beat me to it i think well the discussion regarding the the the policy is a good one we just dealt with the policy coming out of law and and licensing uh... that's something the policy acts within the committee itself uh... so i guess with the the motion being to adopt the amendment i'd urge you at this point in time to everyone to vote no on the amendment at this point pass the resolution as it stands and simply have the public works committee uh... chairperson add discussion points discussion and possible action regarding policy regarding the sign uh... anything that comes out of that we can be comes to this committee can refer back to finance that point in time i think it's something that we should give you have the respect for the uh... chairman of that committee to be able to to uh... put it on the agenda and act hopefully that way and there's no need to go down on the amendment by as president borne if you would just like to withdraw withdraw a second so that that motion is withdrawn we are back to twenty three forty five authorize the purchase of uh... sign plotter everybody okay please call roll smith bander wheel wongerman borne balk hannah heidemann kiddelson clayunas mani meyer montemayor rindflash and ryan fourteen eyes motion carries twenty three forty six resolution number two thirty one oh seven oh eight by oldman borne clayunas gisha balk amended resolution number one oh three oh seven oh eight approving the revised capital improvements program recommended by the capital improvements commission for the program period two thousand eight through two thousand twelve and adopted the two thousand eight program for implementation and moving four hundred fifty thousand dollars from the indiana avenue improvements to the eisner avenue reconstruction for implementation in two thousand eight that was a mouthful all vice president borne thank you your honor i move that the resolution be put upon its passage motion in second under discussion all in spain thank you your honor uh... i won't be supporting this uh... for two reasons number one this is does uh... affect my district but number two it's a matter of principle uh... we've already publicly stated that will be uh... improving indiana avenue that's been publicized and now we're retracting that and shifting money elsewhere and i have to tell my district that they're unfold so if somebody could give me an answer in terms of what criteria was uh... taken to make this shift and why uh... the improvements of indiana avenue has been postponed Mr. balkie, would you please come up sir Mr. balkie, city engineer thank you your honor and city council uh... indiana avenue the design was put off or not the design the state awarding them funds was put off until october of two thousand eight we are still going forward with the bidding process we just don't need to borrow our local match this year so uh... we are going to be going forward with the project it's just going to be starting in march of oh nine thank you just a follow-up question you said this so we're relying on the state and the state didn't come through for this was there anything that we needed to provide the state what was the answer that they had given to us why we postponed this project but yet we have money for another the indiana avenue project uh... we were delayed in getting the bids together the plans put together for the state and we missed the deadline and we went forward with uh... delaying that for a couple of months thank you another question Mr. balkie please uh... 450,000 directed to eisner is that for preliminary work obviously the whole project would not be done this year correct uh... it's for the the design some utility relocations that need to take place ahead of the construction next year thank you thank you your honor i just want to read it we are going to be starting then with indiana avenue when indiana avenue is still going to be bid this year it'll be bid this year and we will probably go ahead with that the contracts will be awarded later this year by the state ok october november december construction will start next year early march two thousand two thousand nine uh... on indiana avenue we're talking indiana avenue uh... west of fourteen street correct yes between fourteenth and seventeenth to the taylor drive more to uh... twenty what is that bridge it's seventeen thank you thank you okay twenty three forty six there's a motion a second to put the resolution upon its passage please call a roll vander wheel wongerman warren balk hannah heidemann kittleson clioness manny meyer montemayor rindflash ryan and smith thirteen eyes one no motion carries twenty three forty seven resolution number two thirty two oh seven oh eight well when born clioness gisha balk authorizing a transfer of appropriations in the two thousand eight budget establishing revenue and appropriation for a rebate received from a lion energy vice president born thank you your honor i move that the resolution be put upon its passage motion and second under discussion there is none please call a roll wongerman warren balk hannah heidemann kittleson clioness manny meyer montemayor rindflash ryan smith and vander wheel fourteen eyes motion carries twenty three forty eight resolution number two thirty three oh seven oh eight well when born clioness gisha and balk authorizing a transfer of appropriations in the two thousand eight budget establishing revenue and appropriations for contribution received from all of them born for flags purchased for the conference rooms vice president born for your contribution thank you your honor uh... i move that the resolution be put upon its passage motion and second under discussion all the mclayunas thank you your honor is one thank you all of them born for the generous donation the other flags and uh... appreciate him stepping up all about thank you your honor uh... i too wanna command all of them born for stepping up and he did it for a very noble purpose that i hope you'll explain to the to the city vice president born thank you your honor uh... a little bit of the history of the donation i was happy to see uh... the veterans from the council all of the height of them uh... all of them both and all of them ryan step forward with the resolution that uh... the pledge of allegiance was going to be recited at all uh... committee meetings and commission meetings well after we pass that resolution we found out that we were going to be about ten u.s. flag short for all of the various uh... meeting rooms uh... my father turned ninety years old february fifteenth and uh... served in world war two in the u.s. navy in the pacific and i thought it would be a good tribute to him to donate this and also for some a high school friends who served in vietnam paid the uh... ultimate sacrifice thank you mr. born now echo the old man's uh... appreciation twenty three forty eight there's a motion to put it upon his passage and there's no more discussion please call boron balk hannah heidemann kittleson clayunas mani meyer montemayor rindflash uh... excuse me ryan smith andrewile and wongerman fourteen eyes twenty two motion carries twenty three sixty seven resolution two thirty four oh seven oh eight by olerman hannah scranton the vfw to hold the annual poppy drive on may sixteen and seventeen two thousand eight president hannah thank you mr. mayor i see that you edited the name of that one i don't make a motion to put the resolution upon his passage motion and second under discussion there being done all in favor say aye any opposed motion carries twenty three fifty seven general ordinance number ninety three oh seven eight by all the money my or my or angisha establishing the salary for the position of mayor all the money to my or thank you your honor i'm with the resolution be put upon its passage motion and second under discussion thank you your honor i just wondered if the uh... the committee or the people that put this together just uh... could explain what did they call how did they decide this that this would be the breakdown of the annual rate thank you uh... thank you we have the salaries from uh... nineteen ninety six and onward and i think this would increase whomever the mayor is would increase the salary by two thousand dollars the original on proposal was maybe a bit more than that in all of angisha and then everybody unanimously thought that seventy one nine fifty eight was appropriate on the hand wheel thank your honor in two thousand four we voted for a four-year increase for the mayor's salary starting two thousand five small increases in two thousand seven no increase in two thousand eight we ended at sixty eight thousand three ninety seven according to my records and then for the public what we're looking at is two thousand nine seventy one nine fifty eight increase in slowly like all the amount of mayor said ending in two thousand twelve to seventy eight thousand six thirty one and in two thousand four you know it was whoever the mayor would be this is what the beginning and it is same today i just simply believe that the city of sheboygan's mayor shouldn't make over sixty thousand dollars so i will vote against this tonight oh my marine flash thank you mr. mayor i too be voting no against this one not specific to any person holding office or who has held office or may potentially hold office my concern is simply this i think when we're going up to seventy thousand uh... in in may two thousand twelve we're going in a direction that we're just doing it unilaterally we're definitely keeping position of full-time mayor i think we still need to look at proposals that would include perhaps part-time mayor and full-time city administrator or something uh... so i'd rather see uh... a analysis of of that uh... i certainly think at at the current salary will be more than enough people willing to run for position of merit only necessarily keep increasing it by the almost two thousand a year uh... they think action seventy thousand we're close to being able to hire pretty much any senator we want for city this size at that point in time you know we all get the uh... the uh... municipality magazine and always in the back if you look uh... while the smaller towns specifically uh... but some of them start at fifty thousand dollars fifty five thousand dollars so i think we we can look at this and say can we do something different or better we haven't really had a full debate yet of which kind of government we'd like can we downsize the council itself we need sixteen can we do with eight can we have uh... city administrator i don't know what the ultimate solution is and that aspect but i'd rather see that debate versus then simply proposing and moving forward in this annual salary old man ran thank you mister mayor uh... we're not quite to you old woman i got a bunch of lights blinking here yes ryan thank you again mister mayor taking all politics out of this does a mayor in our city deserve to earn seventy one thousand dollars or seventy eight thousand dollars a year answer that question is yes it's a hard job truthfully uh... i i i don't think that's out of line at all and we're not going to hire a city administrator for seventy one thousand dollars a year that's uh... qualified as a city administrator i doubt however uh... i'm going to vote against this simply for the fact that uh... it appears that we will be entering an area uh... of unprecedented deficits coming up in the next several years uh... having no uh... revenue increases in the city and that is the only reason i'm going to vote against this it's it's not because the mayor holding office or any mayor does not deserve a raise in pay i think the position deserves the salary at least however i don't think it's a a good policy for for us as a council uh... when it appears we will be asking our departments to be cutting back further again next year uh... that we increase the uh... the executive position salary at this time thank you thank you mister mayor i remember having this discussion when you and i sat on the school board and doctor shane was the superintendent of schools and i remember thinking to myself he manages thirteen properties six hundred seven hundred employees in the private sector he'd be making three four times what he made as superintendent of schools the mayor of this city manages physical plant that's enormous hundreds of city employees i don't think it's unreasonable uh... that we move towards this track this does not preclude us having discussions about different forms of city government doesn't preclude us from having discussions about the size of the city council but i think that it uh... in terms of the magnitude of the job uh... i think this is certainly can be justified thank you president polman why don't you are next time thank you mister mayor think as they sometimes say with comedians timing is everything not that i want to suggest this is funny but i think the timing on this is really way off uh... we're looking at deficits everywhere we're looking at real problems in the city and i just think this is not the time to do it uh... i think it's just ill-timed thank you polman smith thank you ronner uh... my concern lies mostly with uh... just the procedure in which this was taken and i stand to be corrected something of this nature i feel that it should have followed its due process tonight we were given an example of how our it department had to give an explanation on what length they had gone to in terms of doing comparables making sure that that we could justify that expense why should any position especially ourselves in the mayor uh... fall under any other category i believe that this communication this ordinance should have been submitted to salary and grievance and the scrutiny and the way that we arrived at providing an answer to the public as to why we arrived at those numbers uh... can be justified and again i stand to be corrected if that's taken place thank you your honor this resolution came to salary grievance and all of those things were considered the comparables and and all sorts of things were considered at the salary and grievance meeting and it was introduced at their last council meeting and it laid over and now we're taking action on it and i was going to agree with alderman hannah in that this certainly the almost the same words does not preclude considerations and other discussions thank you i appreciate my colleague zeal for uh... budget restraint uh... i hope that i hope that we can uh... hold that spirit through next year's budget uh... planning uh... so an alderman makes forty five hundred ish dollars a year none of us do it because we want the forty five hundred dollars we need the for hopefully nobody does it because they need forty five hundred dollars they do it out of a spirit of uh... wanting to be part of and help the city government uh... the mayor uh... depends on that not this may i don't care who may is now i don't care who mayors in the future but someone becomes a mayor and wants to compete for a salary wants to give back sure but they won't have a salary and i don't think three percent a year is unreasonable to consider whoever the mayor is in uh... a couple years where they are i don't think three percent years unreasonable even in the time of the budget difficulties we're gonna face ahead uh... but i tell you what i'm willing to sell my vote tonight i am willing to vote this down tonight if the city employees throughout the city will only sign up for three percent a year for the next four years on their salaries their hourly rates and their benefits because of our our wonderful city employees will restrict themselves to three percent a year over the next four years we don't have deficit problems we have budget problems if anybody will sign up for that for the city employees tonight i'm willing to sell my vote and vote now thank you all of them vote all of them are thank you your honor uh... in committee we discussed this a lot and we decided that an executive position should have an executive salary and in that discussion we came up with this percentage and we did not feel that this was was in excess or in fact i felt it's rather low for the job that this or the money that this job the time and everything that this requires and as was spoken by alderman hannah is what we should be doing you know you have employees under you you would you came in this year budget deficit we had what two three million dollar deficit at the beginning this year you fix that and i think you can do it again and i just feel if we want to have quality executive mayors this is what they deserve in fact i think you should be getting more and having a part-time mayor and a full-time what do you call it uh... administrator we'd be losing more money i think an administrator makes at least a hundred thousand plus a part-time mayor which would be a figurehead and i don't believe that the city is looking for a figurehead they want a full-time mayor with capabilities of running the city running the departments and that's exactly what we have right now and i would assume in the future we're going to have the same kind of mayors coming in so i agree you should get this raise or not you but set the salary for the future and continue on that that course thank you all my alderman many thank you right i haven't done recent research but i believe for my memory that about two years ago teacher at the top of the salary range with thirty years the masters would be back at about sixty eight thousand dollars now for me to consult if we can't pay our mayor what we pay one of our teachers who has much less responsibility and has very very many fewer heartaches intentions to deal with so i think the figures are totally appropriate they're below where they should be all of them and we'll thank your honor uh... doing some research for tonight i have to agree with all of them and that that we are that this pay scale is below because in two thousand four we were one of the lowest people paying our mayor as much as we're paying two thousand four and i have a hard time believing it's any higher now so it's correct we should be paying more but i don't agree with it all of them and vice president borne thank you your honor uh... i'm going to support this pay scale this this amount this amount of salary for the responsibility of the shabuigan mayor whether it's mayor peres or another mayor uh... for the responsibilities that go with this job in the workload that goes with this job in my opinion this pay scale is not unreasonable at all and of course the number two on on the document that all full-time elected officials shall not engage in the outside business activities uh... during normal city office hours i mean this is this is it as far as the income from our mayor they're not allowed to go out and be engaged in the other business i think it's more than reasonable i'm going to support it thank you vice president borne following smith thank you your honor i just want to mention some food for thought here and one of the things that i've learned from sitting in this position is the importance of morale and if something is good it should be able to stand by itself and one of the things that i would caution this council and those who are going to be taking on this position is that in order to to justify one action we shouldn't have to undermine our city employees so i would just again just take that food for thought if something's good it should be able to stand on itself and just try to stick to the issue thank you ten alderman both thank you your honor i just want to check and see if anybody's uh... if anybody's signing up for our city employees to hold their pay raises to three percent for the next four years and i appreciate all their uh... the distinguished all their person alderman's all the person smith's comments but it has nothing to do with not loving and respecting our city employees it has everything to do with if we're going to jump in the boat and say we're all in this budget deficit and budget challenge together everyone can sign up and say we're all gonna hold our salaries flat which is what we're asking uh... some future mayor not this may or maybe maybe this may or asking them to hold it flat and for asking that person to hold it flat then everybody needs to pony up cowboy up and get in the game or uh... let's uh... let's give the mayor what uh... anyone in that position deserves administrating what that person ministers thank you about i would like to make some final comments before i call for the vote the first comment i'd like to make is this was not initiated by me i had no input i did not lobby for it there's no alderman here they can say i'd talk to you about voting yes for this amount of money i did not initiated i did not lobby for it you've got three positions that are elected here you've got one that's elected at the municipal judge and you've got all of you that are elected there's one big difference is that us three here this is our job we are public servants and i take pride in saying that but we're not allowed as vice president boren has said to hold other jobs this is it you eat you pay what you eat with what you get you all of you sixteen all of them can go out and get two jobs three jobs if you're able to handle you're not restricted to your elected salary and you are an employee of the city of shaboygan because you get paid by the city of shaboygan and the taxpayers money the municipal judge is in elected position that position where the judges is allowed to have a full job most of them will those are public servant position these are public servant positions because we wish it to be and our heart is in the city and we want it to be but we're not allowed to have other jobs this is it i have commented over and over because to me it's somewhat funny i would say that i work ten to twelve hours a day i get blamed for twenty i get paid for five and that's because there's about sixty people or more in the city that work directly under me they get paid more lots more and i'm saying this for the benefit of the public they get paid lots more than i do a lot more and increases is no salaries go up every year automatically mine doesn't and i'm saying these things not to lobby for a yes vote i'm saying these things so that you understand and the public understands that i'm not out here lobbying for money i do my job because i knew what what it involved i know that i have to go out and work and perform my mayoral duties on saturdays and sundays and be away from my family get up early stay up late i know that's what i have to do if i don't like that then i don't run for mayor the job of the mayor is a very serious job and it entails a lot of hours and head banging and i say that just so the people understand what i'm up against but again i did not initiate this you do what you need to do you do what you think is fair not to me to the position in the office of the mayor thank you very much please call the role hannah heidemann kittlesen clainess mani meyer montemayor rinflige excuse me thank you smith van der wheel no are you sure? no all right wongerman borne sitai i am not going to vote the city code allows me to vote or not vote this is an issue for you alderman to handle i would ask for somebody to make a motion to hold second all in favor say aye resolution is held for next council meeting we will move on twenty three fifty eight general ordinance number ninety four seven oh eight by alderman montemayor meyer disha heidemann brasil amending the code so as to add a new title to class grade eight twenty six eight pay schedule x administrative temporary part-time extra help all one month of my own thank you your honor i move the resolution be put upon its passage motion and second under discussion there is none please call the roll hannah heidemann kittlesen clainess mani meyer montemayor rinflige ryan smith vander wheel wongerman warren and balk fourteen eyes motion carries twenty three seventy two general ordinance number ninety five oh seven oh eight by alderman montemayor meyer disha heidemann brasil amending the municipal code so as to change a job code in the job description for the purchasing agent in the finance department's table of organization all in one time thank you your honor i move the resolution be put upon its passage there's a motion and a second under discussion there is none please call the roll hannah heidemann kittlesen clainess mani meyer montemayor rinflige ryan smith vander wheel wongerman warren and balk fourteen eyes motion carries twenty three seventy three general ordinance number ninety six oh seven oh eight by montemayor meyer disha heidemann brasil amending the municipal code so as to change the job code in the job description for the finance director treasurer in the finance department's table of organization all in one time on its passage motion and second under discussion vice president borne thank you your honor i would like to make a motion in the job description and i don't know if all the older persons have this but under the under the qualifications minimum qualifications for the position i want to make a motion to delete the words and that is uh... under number two in the minimum qualifications there was some language stricken from the qualifications in the new language was to read requires a bachelor's of arts degree in accounting and or financial management from an accredited college registration as a certified public accountant preferred uh... the only thing i want to delete out of there is the words of arts and then it would read require a bachelor's degree in accounting and or final uh... financial management from an accredited college registration as a certified public accountant so i'd make that motion to uh... delete the words of arts is there a second i think it's uh... under discussion i think that's a good amendment vice president borne alderman kittleson yes thank you your honor i i was going to asked that the same thing be done that we that we strike of art so thank all the thank you alderman borne for doing that i i think that makes it clearer and that's what what our intention is and i i'm correct on that i almost like this thank you your honor is that the only thing that was changed that we're voting on tonight was it was there anything else as job description that was changed all the month of my life thank you your honor uh... yes be previously uh... the criteria was a bachelor's degree from an accredited college with courses in accounting and or financial management now it has been changed to requires a bachelor's of arts or bachelor of science degree in accounting and or financial management from an accredited college registration as a certified public account and preferred so we are increasing the criteria all the right thank you mister mayor uh... all the person not to be answered my question there being more discussion no more discussion please call roll this is on the amendment yes only amendment only heidemann kittleson clioness mani meyer montemayor rindflash ryan smith vander wheel wangaman boron bauk and hannah fourteen eyes motion carries was present morning a motion to pass it up as amended make a motion to pass the uh... general ordinance as amended motion and second any discussion there'll be a none please call roll kittleson clioness mani meyer montemayor rindflash ryan smith vander wheel wangaman boron bauk hannah and heidemann fourteen eyes motion carries other matters authorized by law uh... twenty four seventy six will be referred to public works in finance twenty seven seventy seven public works twenty four seventy eight of finance and public works twenty four seventy nine public works twenty four eighty to public works and eighty one to public works other matters attorney mclean twenty four eighty two is an arrow by the city clerk submitting a communication from richard meyer manager of the harbour center bid along with the audit of the books is conducted by shank business solutions that will be referred to finance twenty four eighty three is an arrow by the city clerk submitting various license applications for the period ending june thirty two thousand eight and june thirty two thousand nine that will go to law and licensing twenty four eighty four is an ordinance repealing section twenty nine dash three of the nineteen seventy five sheboygan municipal code and creating new section eighty two dash three of the current sheboygan municipal code relating to residency that will be referred to selling ingredients don't get up please armand smithy which safety word thank you ronner you know this position calls for uh... for you to speak in public but i must say it's been very difficult i've spoken on various topics but this being a personal nature has been difficult bear with me people of us often asked me what made you decide to get into politics and i always answer i live next door to a lady on cell fourteen street her name was lorraine she's probably watching and i had a tremendous amount and i still do respect for this woman she raised five kids at her own uh... when i would go over to her house on her yard immaculate she'd often tell me oh i'd you know put the roof on i drywalled here and she was very conscientious as a citizen of sheboygan and she took pride in her neighborhood and i was participating in a neighborhood watch with lorraine cup and i'll never forget the day that i got a call and she says bonnie have an idea you probably think i'm crazy but i think you should run for all and you know what that's not that that's whether or not i would win or lose if i had the rain cups pulled that's all that mattered it's been difficult to think about what i'm going to say because how do i say in a few statements four years of gratitude for this city it has been said sheboygan politics is unknown uh... it's nothing like any other place and with that i gotta say i have learned from the best the best you know it was sad this last election i wish i should have spoke this actually then to see very few people run for election let me tell you this can be the most difficult job yes but i'll tell you what it is the most rewarding what i have learned here on this floor i tell people all the time i will never learn it in the classroom it has taught me so much i also want to say that although this is a public position there are times where it is very lonely and you all know you can talk your spouse or your significant ear off and i would have probably gotten together with you more if it wasn't considered a walking quorum thank goodness i've had a trusted friend and colleague like marge sagalli who's probably you know our spouses probably were thankful that we could talk and talk and talk but i i have to mention this and what's interesting is what's gotten me through some hard hard times as i pray but there was one person my trusted companion who i've wanted to think it was that individual that got me through to knock on those doors when i didn't have a whole lot to offer but just passion in the spirit to learn and that has gotten me through the tough times and that is God it's hard to get through that and not pray because i wanted to keep it a secret but he knows and lastly i can't tell you how many times you know on this floor we thank each other all the time we do proclamations for people which is it's important to do that but tonight i want to recognize and i know you guys have come across this i will be at the most unusual place i think the mayor is even referenced to being in a grocery store and people come up to you and they say hey i watched you last night or hey i knew this i am just i'm just stopped in my tracks in awe of individuals like i have not even formally met this woman marge but i tell you what she's probably been at more committees than i have individuals like asher heidemann a horseman student who knows probably more about politics in cheboygan than a lot of other citizens milton storm he was here earlier tonight these people serve this community and never get a thank you and it's those individuals that have taught me the greatest lesson they never get thank you what they serve and they continue to serve and cheboygan i thank you because i am a much better person and i've learned so much vice president henna any motion to adjourn? thank you mr. mayor i would like to do a adjourn all in favor say aye any opposed?