 Hey everybody, today we're debating atheism versus Islam, and we're starting right now. With Muslim Apologist's opening statement, thanks so much for being with us. The floor is all yours. Thank you, James. Thank you also to my opponent, T-Jump. So I have prepared several points here regarding basically what I believe atheism has problem with from an Islamic viewpoint basically. Well I could have listed a lot of points, but since we only have 10 minutes for an opening statement, so I've kept it to five major points, which I think is crucial. And for me as a Muslim, I find very difficult to accept atheism as a valid philosophy for life. So basically what I understand about atheism is that it is the belief in the non-existence of God. Now why do I say belief? Because I'm pretty sure there will be a lot of atheists who would reject that. They will say, no, we don't have a belief. We don't believe in theistic religion or we don't believe in God. But that's exactly the point because atheists don't have any evidence that God does not exist. So basically they believe that God doesn't exist. So in a way, in a very oxymoronic and ironic way, atheism is actually a religion in itself because it's basically a religion or a belief system that does not believe in God, that rejects God's existence. So going back to my five major points on why I reject atheism as a Muslim. So atheism or the atheistic ideology, for me it relies or focuses too much on the ego or the worship or the self or what in philosophy we refer to as selfism. So its philosophy is basically ambiguous and it's electric, meaning it always changes according to the person adopting that specific viewpoint, that particular Weyton Xiaowong, that particular Weyton Xiong. So an atheist cannot say that his atheism or his approach to atheism is the same as the other person or the other atheists because if you ask two atheists in the room about a particular viewpoint or a particular moral precept, both will give different answers. So to me, morality or ethics as defined in atheism is a totally abstract concept. It only revolves around the self. And let's say I give an example. Let's say if a particular atheist finds incest to be morally ethical, what is there to prevent them from doing so? Because as a Muslim, I find incest to be actually abhorrent against my own moral values. But an atheist has no reason to reject incest. It is totally valid to them in their viewpoint because there's nothing we say that they cannot do it. So similarly, if a particular atheist finds cannibalism or even rape to be ethical, what moral law or what moral ethic or what particular rule is there to prevent them from doing so? Exactly the point for them to say no to that because there's no reason for them to say no. They can actually accept it because they don't have a book. They don't believe in God. They don't have a book to tell them what to do. They don't have any laws. So why should they not commit rape? Why should they not commit cannibalism? They can accept this easily, right? So of course, there will be atheists who say, no, we are not cannibals, we are against rape, we are against theft, we are against robbery, etc. Yes, you do say this. But the problem here is that whatever morality that you say, that you adhere to, it originally came from your former religion. If you were, let's say, if you were Christian, if you were Muslim, you were Buddhist, then later on in life, you decide to become an atheist. Whatever moral values that you adopt prior to your rejection of religion will be carried over, right? So basically, whatever moral press-up or ethics that you believe now as an atheist came from when you were raised in or how you were raised, it did not come from the principles of atheism itself, because atheism as a moral value or moral ethic is totally vacant on it, right? So, okay, now this is my second point, okay? Atheism, for me, this is a big issue for me, okay? Atheism doesn't give a definitive answer to the question of man's origin or the purpose of man on earth, right? So can atheism answer where did man come from, what is the purpose of man, what is the purpose of him being on earth, what is his moral imperative, I mean, is he here, is mankind here simply to live and reproduce and then die like an animal? So what happens after death, the issue of afterlife? Where does the soul go? I mean, does the 80s actually believe in the soul? You just believe that we just live and we die and then the soul dissipates into nothing? Is that the answer that atheism can give me, okay? And what happens after death? Will there be any retribution for misdeeds that you commit? Will there be any repercussions for what you have done on earth? Let's say if you have committed a crime and robbery or whatever, but you were never arrested for it, and then when you die, it just ends there. I mean, what is the justice in that, okay? So going back to that particular point, so we have, in history, we have people like Hitler, like Stalin, like Pol Pot, these people were never tried for their crimes. I mean, Hitler shot himself in his bunker, they never actually put him on trial for anything. Stalin died and woman, Pol Pot, same thing, okay? So what happened, what will happen to these people, okay? These people committed mass murders, okay? Hitler sent the Jews to guest chambers, right? So where is the justice? Where is the retribution for Hitler? If Hitler simply dies and it ends there, I mean, death for him will be a sweet escape from the punishment of this earth. If atheism is correct and mankind just expires and disappears, okay? And there is no God, okay? So will these people actually face justice for their misdeeds? I mean, where is the justice in this, right? So that's my second point. Now my third point, atheism, to me, is inherently hedonistic. And it also leads to fatalism, okay? It gives men no real purpose to life or living, okay? So basically, atheism is saying that mankind just lives and it is so. And we just continue our own miserable lives, we go to work and we come back to work. We sleep, we eat, and we reproduce, and we die, and it ends. That's the story, I mean. So what is the purpose of life? I mean, what would be the purpose of this apart from living your life as it is? And going back to the point being hedonistic, why do you need to border obeying social laws? I mean, why do you need to obey the traffic rules or laws or penal codes or criminal laws or whatever when your life has no further consequences? After you die, okay? So whatever repercussions that you have done here on Earth, you don't actually face them if you die, after you die. So what would be the point of obeying such laws? I mean, if you want to commit rape, you want to commit murder, and you can escape the laws here on Earth, after you die, there's nothing. I mean, I hope you get the point, right? So beyond the need to survive and to reproduce, man has no reason to exist. This is what atheism actually argues for, okay? So even the desire to gain knowledge or even self-improvement is meaningless. Because when one dies, all this knowledge, all this wealth, all the self-improvement, all the learning that you get, let's say you know how to do math, you know how to do chemistry, you know how to do history, et cetera, all this knowledge, all this grand wealth of human knowledge. When you die, it becomes nothing, okay? I mean, of course, there will be people who will carry on forward your work, but what benefit does it bring to you yourself as a human being? I mean, it just dies ends there when you die, you see? So this is my third point. Now my fourth point, okay? Atheism, yes, all right, so I'll make it quick, okay? Atheism leads to serious mental health issues, okay? So there are problems such as depression and eventually suicide. So I'm going to show here a small, if you'll give me one second to share this, right? They can't see your screen yet. It says, Muslim apologists have started sharing, screen sharing, double click to enter full screen mode, which for me, that I don't want to enter school with the full screen mode. I just want to let you know that your slides aren't showing yet. He's muted, he's muted. Muslim apologists, I just asked you to unmute. It should show a window that'll pop up, but I also can't see your slides yet. Muslim apologists, we cannot see your slides and we can't hear you either. Sorry, I mean, I can't, when I show my slides, I got muted by itself. So I'm afraid I can't show the statistics. But anyway, just to make it quick, the stats actually say that the number of atheists who died from suicide is higher than these, right? So this proves my point that atheism leads to mental health issues, right? And according to studies, higher religiousness results in higher meaning in life, whereas atheism and agnostic beliefs result in societal thoughts, okay? So my last point, since I only have like one minute left, okay? So the last point is that atheism has made no significant contribution to mankind or to civilization, okay? There is no such thing as an atheist civilization, okay? The closest that we probably have to atheists detaining state policy or state atheism, countries like North Korea, People's Republic of China, Soviet Union and Cuba. At least in the case of Cuba, it was until 1992, right? So as we all know, these countries aren't exactly the moral paradigm or values. There's a lot of intolerance of minorities, persecution, etc. and forced state ideology upon the population. And with this, I end my presentation. Thank you very much for allowing me to speak. Thank you. Thank you very much. And I want to let you know, folks, it was your first time here at Modern Day Debate. We are a neutral platform hosting debates on science, religion and politics. We hope you feel welcome no matter what walk of life you are from. And we're going to kick it over to Tom for his opening statement. But thank you very much, Tom. And one second, I'm going to reverse the screens because they just flipped on me. I'm not sure why, but go ahead. Tom, the floor is all yours. Yeah. Yeah, sorry about that. My Zoom, like, crashed, I think. I don't know what that was about. Yeah, so apparently our debate is about Islam versus atheism. But I didn't hear any evidence presented for Islam. Just complaints that he doesn't like atheism, or he doesn't like the fact that we don't make stuff up. Like, the biggest objection here is that atheists don't make stuff up. But answers, they don't know the answer to it. We just say, except we don't know. So as we could make stuff up, like, here's the biggest kicker is that all atheists could make up answers just like theists do. What is the meaning of life? Well, potato, that's the meaning of life. And now I have an equally valid answer to Islam because Islam has no evidence. So anybody can make up any answer they want to the questions of life and give a given answer. The question is, is there any evidence to support it? And there's no evidence to support anything Islam says. It's completely made up. It's just an arbitrary assertion just like all religions. So atheism prefers to go with the actual evidential positions and go with what we actually know is the case rather than make stuff up, which means atheism is inherently the better position. Secondly, atheism does more for the world than literally any other position. Atheism, most of the highest ranking scientists in the world are atheists. Like, go to the National Academy of Sciences of the World Society. Percent of theists is 5% of people believe in God. The vast majority do not believe in a God. So it's the case that atheism has done more for pretty much literally everything in the world than Islam has. Non-secular societies have the absolute best stats, the least crime, the least rape, the least divorce, the most education, the highest standard of living, the highest access to food. Literally, the less religious you go, the better society is in literally every measurable respect. And the more religious you go, the worse it is in literally every measurable respect. There's this common theme among theists that they're confused. They don't understand that cherry picking the worst examples of atheism, like Hitler or Stalin, which aren't atheists at all, or not atheist organizations whatsoever, still doesn't show that atheism is bad. Because guess what? Most atheists are better than those two and don't adhere to those two. So saying that they're the example of atheism is like saying that the people who flew planes into the Twin Towers are the pentacle of Islam. So his argument that Stalin and Mao are examples of atheists and that what atheists are really like is like if I said, well, every Muslim is like the terrorists who flew planes into the Twin Towers, like cherry picking the worst examples and then using those as a way to try and claim that as the epitome of that ideology. Secondly, Hitler and Stalin and Mao had nothing to do with atheism. Atheism is literally a not-belief. They literally lack something. Calling any of those movements, atheist movements, is like calling them non-golf player movements. Hitler didn't play golf and that's what inspired him to kill all the Jews. Well, clearly not. The fact that he didn't play golf or the fact that he didn't believe in God can never be a positive motivating factor in what inspired him to do the things he did. He must have a positive motivating belief to cause those actions, which is his political beliefs, not atheism. So we can prove definitively as every single academic everywhere in the world admits that those are not atheist movements because they have literally nothing to do with atheism because it's not actually a positive belief. You have to be an idiot to think that those are atheist movements, which most theists are conveniently. Secondly, we know that all of the evidence indicates there is no God. All of the academic fields in literally everything from biology, math, physics, cosmology, philosophy, all atheists, all of them, none of them have ever corroborated a God. God has been proven false in pretty much every realm it could have been. There is no evidence to support the existence of God whatsoever. There's nothing. And so theists decry. They complain that, well, you guys don't have an explanation for the meaning of life or how the universe began or whatever. It's all just arguments from ignorance. Those are literally called arguments from ignorance. It doesn't mean a good argument. It's saying you don't know, therefore, you're wrong, clearly not the case. In fact, it's usually always the other way around. The people who claim to know are always wrong, which has been proven by religion time and time again, where they think they know something. They're always proven wrong by science, and which is secular. So all of his assertions are clearly incorrect. And I can address most of his criticisms about what he thinks about atheism later. Morality. Most philosophers are atheists. 70, 70 percentish are atheists, and 65, 67 percent believe in objective morality without a God. You don't need a God for that. Theists are just making stuff up. They think you need a God because of their biased opinions. You don't, and you haven't for the beginning of time. Morality did not come from religion. The moral beliefs of most humans have nothing to do with religion. It has to do with biology. We know this because we can see morality in animals, apes, chimpanzees, most mammals, elephants, dolphins. Peg, you name it. We can see morality in it, which none of them have a religion. So clearly we can prove definitively morality has nothing to do with religion. Scientific facts. What else? Morality is abstract. He's made up an invisible sky daddy, and he thinks that grounds morality. And he's calling someone else's morality abstract as kind of ironic. Since all he's done is made up his own imaginary friend and called that a basis of objective morality. So theistic objective morality is actually the most abstract of any because it has no basis in philosophy. Whereas the secular models of morality do have a basis in philosophy. They're much better models, as we can see in my debate with David Wood that demonstrated that secularism is a much better grounds of morality than theism because theism doesn't answer any of the questions that we're asking in order of a model of morality. In order to assess which model is better scientifically, we can look at the evidence. The evidence more indicates all of the secular views are more rational in order to assess which view is better politically. We can assess the consequences in society. Consequences in society say that atheist societies are objectively better in every measurable way. So that's really the only two ways I can think of to assess which is better and atheism wins on both hands down. I'll conclude there. You got to thank you very much for that opening statement and we're going to go into open dialogue, folks. So I want to let you know it's going to be a juicy one tomorrow morning whether or not ex-Muslims should be punished, as you can see in the bottom right of your screen. That debate is going to be a lively one. You don't want to miss it. Hit that subscribe button as we are absolutely pumped for it and I'll be there tomorrow morning to moderate that. But gentlemen, thanks so much. The floor is all yours. Yeah, so should I respond to Tijam's jump, basically? All right, so okay, so I noted his points. Okay, so Tijam said that there's no evidence for the sky daddy, right? So for Muslims, it's not an issue because we do have the evidence and it's called the Quran, okay? Because we believe that the Quran is literally the word of God that came from the sky, okay? So if Christians believe that the word was made flesh, then we believe as Muslims that the word was made book, okay? Which is the Quran. So the Quran actually issues several challenges to non-believers, to these believers, to imitate the Quran, to be like it, and to create a surah exactly like it in Arabic with the grammatical rules. And then until today, no one has ever managed to do that, okay? So of course you may say that this is not objective, this is subjective, but actually there are many scholars who actually say this challenge is actually very objective, okay? So there are many excuses from people who don't know Arabic who say that this challenge is meaningless, this challenge has no basis whatsoever, but it's actually a very objective challenge, right? The next point. So you're saying that the Quran existing is evidence? Because it's not, I don't know, like a book like Harry Potter, the book Harry Potter existing is an evidence of Harry Potter being magic. So I don't understand what you think the, how that is in any way evidence of God that it was written in the book by Farm Herders 2,000 years ago, or thousands of years ago. Well, you see because the Quran was written in a very beautiful Arabic prose, okay? Something which no man could ever imitate. So the challenge is simple, to create something of similar value which can defeat the Arabic prose of the Quran. Okay? The prose of the Quran aren't evidence of a God, one, they're not very beautiful. They're pretty crappy. Secondly, we know literally who wrote them. So none of that's evidence. The fact that it's pretty words are not evidence. But you're just denying, but basically you're just denying, you're just denying the, or you're just dismissing the challenge, okay? Because the Quran openly challenges this, right? So if you don't want to accept it, it's not a, the challenge of trying to imitate the surah of the Quran, see? So if you are just dismissing it, say a surah, a challenge of what, what is the challenge? The challenge is basically to create a surah like the Quran in Arabic. Okay, Harry Potter is more beautiful in every way than the Quran. Quran defeated. No, it's not. It's not in English. You have to do it in Arabic. Because Arabic is not beautiful. Like your subjective opinion about Arabic isn't evidence of a God. But you are being subject, but that, but that is your subjective opinion in saying that Arabic is not beautiful. Okay? Right. So you need to be in Arabic. That's kind of the point. What you presented as evidence was your subjective opinion that Arabic is beautiful is evidence of a God. That's not evidence of God because everybody's subjective opinion. I would, but, but as someone who has studied really, he has studied many languages. I mean, I, I have, I am, I do study English, Malay, It doesn't matter how many languages you study. Pretty, pretty language. Isn't an objective feature. But basically I'm saying, I'm saying after having studied so many languages, I find Arabic to be the most beautiful. I don't care what you think is the most beautiful. But that's, but that's precisely the problem because you don't care. You see, you don't, you're not willing to face the Quranic challenge. The amount of you studying languages is not evidence of your, your ability to discover which is the most beautiful. That's not how it works. Beauty. No, I'm saying, no, I basically, I'm saying that Arabic is a beautiful language based on why I understand. I don't, I don't care. You don't reject that. If you reject, if you reject that, if you reject that, that's not, that's not exactly the issue here. You see? I mean, I know it's subjective, but the point is, but the point is, the Quran made a challenge and you, all you need to do is actually to No, no, no, no, no. You're waffling. You're waffling. You're, you're not addressing the point. The point is, is that you thinking it's beautiful isn't evidence. That's you making crap up. So, so you thinking it's beautiful doesn't matter how much you've studied language. Your expertise in knowing languages doesn't assess you to assess beauty objectively. So no, your opinion about which is beautiful is not evidence that it is beautiful. And it's not, and even if it was beautiful, that's not evidence of God. So none of what you said is actually evidence of God. It's just, you feel the Quran's beautiful. That's all you said. No, I'm saying that language is beautiful. I'm not just saying that it's beautiful. That's your opinion, which is not evidence of anything. Yes. It is evidence if you, if you meet the Quranic challenge. No, no. It's that simple. Oh my God. Oh my God. That's so, that's so stupid. So this stick is beautiful. This is the most beautiful thing in the world. It's evidence of the, the spaghetti monster. Make it more beautiful stick. Oh, you can't because it's my subjective opinion that the stick is beautiful. That's not the challenge. That's how stupid what you said is. No, that's not the challenge. That's not the challenge. And you're being subjective. You're just being argumentative. You see? Oh my God. You see, you just, you just, you're just pulling at strings. Oh, yeah. Because the Quranic... So tell me, tell me which, which part of this is not your argument. So your argument is, is I have a beautiful stick. It's beautiful because I've studied sticks a lot. And so I think this is the most beautiful stick. And the reason it's evidently stopped, don't interrupt, don't interrupt, don't interrupt. And my, and the reason this is evidence is because you can't make a more beautiful stick based on my subjective opinion. Therefore, this is an evidence of my stick God, the spaghetti monster. That's how stupid what you just said is. But the point is, it's not, it's not subjective. It's, it's objective. You can actually measure the beauty of the Quran or the basically the Arabic language with certain meters, with certain grammatical rules. Okay. So how are you going to measure the beauty of the stick? Now, how are you going to measure the beauty of a stick? Can you tell me how? That's the problem. How do you do that? There's no... I can measure, I can measure the beauty of the Arabic prose. But how are you going to measure the beauty of a stick? How beautiful the length of the stick is and how shiny is? I can measure the shininess of the stick and that's how beautiful it is. Why would the shininess of the stick be beautiful? It doesn't make any sense. I mean, and that is not the challenge. You are just making up statements. That's the question. It's like, why, why is the shininess of the stick beautiful? Why is the prose of the language beautiful? It's just stuff you're making up. No, it's not what I'm making up. This is what the Quran says. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, again, you making shit up and thinking it's beautiful is not evidence that it's objective. Even if it wasn't beautiful, that still wouldn't be evidence. It's something very objective. Yeah, it's something. I mean, if you want to reject it, it's fine by me. I can, I can move on. I have several points here. Oh my God. Oh my God. Yeah. So anyway, I don't know how you can be so deluded to think that because you think it's beautiful, that's objective. That's literally the opposite of objective. Like, oh my God. It's not about being beautiful. It's about meeting the Quranic challenge to defeat the Arabic prose of the Quran. It's not just about beauty. No, no, no. You don't understand how evidence works. Yeah. You presenting a challenge. I don't think you're understanding how to do any challenges. Just because there are so many points that were brought up, this one we've definitely delved into pretty well. Maybe it's time that we move into a different one. Sure. Let's see. Is there any other evidence? Yeah, I have a lot here. I have a whole list here. I have a whole list here. All right. Give me one at a time. Just one. Just one. Give me one. Sure. I can do that. So let me see now. Yeah. You said that you say that just now that there's no evidence of God because you cannot see God, but not seeing God, not knowing. I never said that. I mean, that's pretty much what you meant, okay? So basically you say that there's no evidence for God. Basically you're saying there's no evidence of God. You have no idea what you're talking about. You have no idea what my position is. Okay, sure. Then can you repeat your okay, sure. Then you repeat then your argument. Why don't you read it? There's no evidence of God. Give me evidence. Exactly. So exactly. So because you say that there's no evidence of God, therefore there's no God. I mean, that's just for me, that's just argument from silence. I mean, just because something doesn't have an evidence doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Yes, but that's not the argument. Yeah. So anyway, can you show me evidence that there is no God? Yes. Most things human make up. How do you show it? How do you show it? How do you show it? I'm literally doing that, so stop interrupting. Most things people make up in their head are imaginary and don't exist. The God belief is something people made up in their head with no evidence, therefore it's reasonable to believe that God belief is imaginary, just like all the other things people make up in their head. Conclusion. It's rational to believe God is imaginary thing made up in human's head and nothing more. So if I imagine that your mother doesn't exist, does it mean your mom didn't exist? Did you not understand the argument here? So the argument is most things people make up in their head with no evidence are not real things. They're imaginary things. If you have an idea which someone has made up in their head and it has no evidence, then it's reasonable to conclude it's an imaginary thing. Your mother has evidence, so it's not just something people made up in their head, it's something people made up in their head and has evidence. But I don't have evidence that your mom exists. Yes, you do. What is the evidence? Me? I can go further than that. I can go further than that. I can say your grandparents don't exist or your great great great great. Let me answer the question. That's the point. I can answer the question. I don't need you to explain where I know what you asked. I can answer the question. So the answer to the question is because I'm here and you understand how biology works and there's lots of empirical evidence of how biology works and how parents come from grandparents etc. etc. You have sufficient evidence include yes, I have grandparents and great grandparents and great great great. But the thing is for all I know you could have been an alien coming down from somewhere. Yes, you don't need proof. Evidence isn't proof. Evidence is something you have even if you don't have proof. I mean I mean I can speculate where you come from it doesn't it doesn't matter right I mean if that is the reasoning that you use to deny God's existence then I think it's a weak one no because you're just saying that you just you're saying that just because someone thinks that God exists therefore God doesn't exist I mean and yet and yet you know life itself is evidence I mean okay I'm going to argue this from the Quran because the Quran actually discusses this point so basically life as it is is evidence that God exists okay so the fact that the fact that you are here is the reason yeah yeah okay so I'm pretty sure you are aware of the biological process where you know when when when you are you know when someone is when a human is being created there are thousands of sperm that goes into the womb etc and there's only one so out of this one million sperm only one can fertilize the ovum so are you going to say that only out of this one million sperm only one there's only the one infinite chance for the ovum to be to fertilize and become a human merely by chance merely by not it's just a coincidence your creation is just a coincidence there's nothing detaining the wheel of this happening no don't have a will all sperm are swimming into the same spot trying to get one million but there's one million sperm you see so out of this one million sperm only one fertilizes the ovum so how is it possible if we if we go to the ocean if we go to the ocean and I toss in a piece of bread only one of the millions of fish will get to eat the bread no that's not actually true that's not actually true why is that true why is that so if you throw if you throw in a tiny bread crumb a single piece of bread crumb and it's bigger and it's smaller than the fish's mouth and the fish eats the entire thing all at once then one fish will get the piece and that'll be it no more bread bread gone I don't get the logic because you're I think you're just you're you're just doing philosophy that's not my point that's not my argument actually that's not my argument is my argument is that the fact that you exist out of this one million chance shows that you you know that God does exist you are created because of the will of God if you get what I mean I know so so one million chance that a sperm goes into an egg therefore God yes so there's a one million chance that I throw the piece of bread and fish that eat it wait wait wait let me finish whatever fish eats it there was a one in a million chance that that one fish would eat it does that prove that I'm a God and that I designed it specifically for that fish no it was just chance because there's a lot of them so if there's a lot of things and only one of them can get the prize then that's just probability it's like a dice if there's a dice with a million sides one of them is red and it lands on the red one eventually it's not proof of a God wasn't was a Einstein wasn't was a Einstein who said God doesn't play dice with the universe yes and my God he meant pantheism not and not a mind so pantheism as in just nature not a not a mind but you're leaving it to random chance I mean this is just simply random it just happens our nothing that for me this is I think this sounds as though you're making it up in your head it goes back to your argument about making things up in your head you see if it's a demonstrated part of reality that's literally the opposite of making it just assuming just simply because you're throwing a big crumb into the ocean and then therefore there's only one fish and then therefore it doesn't mean that you are the creator you're just making up in your head I don't see why how is this evidence for no God that's called an analogy this is not evidence for no God it's just simply something you're making up in your head no that was a counter to your argument so your argument was is an event that is highly improbable is evidence of a God and then I created an event that is highly improbable that had no designer so that disproves your argument that's something that is highly improbable is evidence of a designer or God no it's not but but the thing is the thing is I can argue this way the fact that you through the big come was by the will of God what see the fact that you through the big come to give the fish to it is evidence that God will you do to do that to do that action you see so again it doesn't prove that there's no God it doesn't prove that there's no God that's what I'm trying to say nothing you're saying is making any sense right now so so the reason there's no God is because any belief humans make up in their imagination that has no evidence is by definition defaulted to be just a thing a human made up in their imagination okay fine then I think oxygen doesn't exist because I don't see oxygen anyway I think oxygen is a made-up thing in my head okay well we've clearly demonstrated it so that would be a good start how would you empirically demonstrate if I don't see oxygen in my life I have never seen oxygen in my life all I hear is literally break it apart I know is all I know is there's all I know that there's molecules and particles and atoms but I've never seen a molecule or atom in my life yeah that's what science does science proves it's real so can you prove God is real like science proof things are real well I just did by showing no you didn't do it like you didn't do it let me finish let me finish there's many other evidences I mean you can actually you know there's a whole plethora of evidence you can you can choose from okay it's not just about about it's not just about humans creation it's also about the animals what plants life itself okay the fact that you know the sun and earth is the sun and earth is in orbit okay the space space itself the stars the moon I mean all this came from chance okay how you're just saying that all this just happened by inco incident there's no purpose to life apart from just us being here exists palm like as it is without any so you are just you know you're just simply assuming that everything just exists in this life and there's no creator if I were to throw you know okay I'm going to give an analogy if I were through a bunch of Lego blocks on the ground would that Lego blocks suddenly become a castle can you can you answer that laws of physics forced it to like what none of what you're saying is evidence I mean if I throw a bunch of Lego blocks and I throw it to the ground would that would that Lego bunch of Lego blocks on the ground suddenly form into a castle if there are laws of physics that force them to yes I've never seen that happen I mean is it even laws of physics that force them to so you're saying laws of physics doesn't exist now no there aren't any laws of physics that make Legos go into a Lego structure there are laws of physics that force life to form there are laws of physics that form galaxies to form there are laws of physics that create solar systems those are all determined by laws of physics yes and who and who determines the laws of physics nobody it's the laws of physics nobody they're uncreated they're necessary things that have always been there why would he be necessary if there's nothing created by chance everything is by chance nothing happens I mean there's no purpose to it it just happens out of a out of a few million probabilities that could have happened this particular chance this particular thing happened which is the galaxy forming out of nothing is that what you're saying no so you're saying that there is something creating this no it's uncreated it's necessary it's always been there it's always been the way it is it's determined by physical forces if it determined then who determines the physical forces no they were not determined they're uncreated never created necessary things that don't need a creator no creator so okay so I'll just conclude this because I don't I don't see the point of continuing this this particular argument that is so if e equals to mc square right yes who determines the law e equals to mc square reality is e equals to why e equals to mc square why can I like why can e equals to m square c for example because it describes reality like why does 1 plus 1 equal to because that describes reality so who describes reality who determines this nobody it's just a description of reality so everything is by chance according to you no it's by necessity it's a necessary result of physics there's no chance that who decides but then who but then who decides what is necessary and what is not no one no one decides it's just is necessary that's what necessary means it means it's not decided this is very simple the words literally mean honestly I honestly I think I think you're in denial but it's okay okay yeah I think I must move all right anyway the next point okay yeah next point next point all right so yeah I'm going to go to this point Islamic civilization okay so atheism doesn't bring any civilization so I have a book here called Islam and civilization critical viewpoints okay it's written by MAJ back in here there's a list of achievements by Islamic civilization okay so how the edit world grew from Islam when Islam first first burst into the scene in the world so it tells me how the Arabs conquered islands of Cyprus etc and then how the Ottomans rule over the Balkans how Islam how Islam contributed to a world culture and sciences and civilization now my question is simple what has atheism or atheist philosophers or whoever contributed to the world okay in in in terms equal to that of the Islamic civilization which lasted for thousands of years and even today we have the Muslim world so what has health care saved more lives gave more education provided more services saved can solve more diseases more scientific how many how many years how many years old is that how many years old is that how long did I mean so in the past 200 years the atheists have made more progress in the past 2,000 years of the religious people who didn't do jack so in the past 200 years atheism has done more than all of religion combined yes but the thing is Islam came in the 600s in the in the in the year 650 plus and yes reason to become a great empire and he has contributed a lot to sciences that's much more than what it is them you know it is no in 200 years no you banned math and science and became the lowest level society on the planet so you're not a no muslims that muslims has never been signed math and science in fact literally all modern science in fact the the father of mathematics is even though it's alhawar is me okay alhawar is me was a Persian scholar a muslim scholar who founded algorithm and algorithm and algebra without which we won't be even having this discussion because yeah clearly you don't understand the difference yeah you don't understand the difference between starting something and then someone else banning things later like clearly those are two separate things you just say something yes but then but then people improvise on it without that basic sciences there will be nothing you see there will be nothing no it would still be so what it is it is fine I'm found from building up so again no no you're wrong even if no Muslims ever existed we'd still have all the science we do today they just have different names behind it so nothing they did was different because I have a book here somewhere here the world about Islam yeah I have a book called Harry Potter I forgot I forgot his name I'm sorry but I have this book called with a world with what Islam and in this book the author argues that we bought Islam most of the things that we have today would not be achieved okay so your argument is just mine okay in your mind it's all in your mind it's all in your mind okay then you will need to critique that book properly because without that I'm being I'm not obliged to accept your argument by simply you know you by you simply dismissing it okay it's not it's not evidence for anything okay you just simply dismissing the evidence okay you deny in reality is not evidence yes I understand that I'm not you are yes you definitely are because I'm saying that we're about Islam that won't be a civilization as we know it today okay yes there would this is wrong like you don't need Islam for pretty much anything they only do is name stuff that's that's I guess there's just we just have to agree to disagree then right yeah reality disagrees with you that's that's true yeah I mean okay so maybe my last point here let me see now yeah yeah depression yeah the number of suicide so how would you explain that how would how would just how would you justify atheism being a good way of a good philosophy to life when you see the number of suicides from the 80s side even more than that of these okay and when I say tease I don't mean as Muslims I mean also you know Christians Buddhists etc it seems to me that being an atheist is much you know it's much more makes you more prone to depression and suicide it doesn't give you a great life okay compared to you know being a tease yeah or being a Muslim for that matter yeah in fact in that statistic Muslims has the lowest number of suicides okay the highest number of beheadings and arm cutting off and capital punishment and marital rape and suicide bombings no there's no there's no and homelessness and malnourishment so yeah I'm gonna say that people who live you know I'm gonna have it here where is it live debates yeah you can show it yeah yeah if you are curious which states and countries have the best of all the states you can check the Pew Forum religious landscape survey and then you can go ahead and check how the various states are faring in terms of societal well-being the correlation is clear and strong the more secular tend to fare better than the more religious on a vast host of measures including homicide violent crime poverty obesity diabetes rates child abuse rates education tainment level income levels unemployment rates rate of sexual transmitted diseases and teen pregnancy etc you name it on nearly every sociological measure of well-being you are most likely to find the more secular states with the lowest levels of faith in God and the lowest levels of church attendance faring the best and the most religious to have the highest levels in faith in God with the faring worst in each of these criteria yes your religious stuff is worse in every one of these not done yet not done yet so I grant that yes there are as a higher suicide rate in areas that have significantly well better well-being because people who are depressed live longer so they are able to kill themselves whereas in the country is like Islam they're put in prison usually killed in torture and so they don't have the opportunity to kill themselves because they don't live long enough so yes secular sides are better like literally every way the number of suicides is just indicative of that as that's not actually doesn't actually make Islamic society is better it actually makes it worse no I don't think I don't think you get it because I'm not from the Middle East I'm not from Pakistan I'm not from India I'm from Malaysia I didn't I didn't say Middle East I say the world yeah I mean I mean there are problems in the Muslim world I grant that but I don't think this is also true in America so if you compare it's true yeah but I'm talking about 80s in general I'm not talking about specific regions you see so you're just saying that in the Muslim world in America do better in every category than the religious in America the atheist in the world do better than the religious as I disagree because that's why that's not what the statistic say that's not what I literally just read them to you from the Pew survey data I literally just read it from the Pew survey data when what year was it from what every year it's the same data every year they get the same result it's continuous it's not just like one magic year sometimes atheists are doing better this one magic year it's every year then how do you justify the data that I showed I mean I can't show it unfortunately but that's what there are more suicides yes there are more suicides in the 80s from 80s yes there are more suicides that doesn't make the society better I mean doesn't that mean that you know 80s have a problem with a mental depression no it means that more of them are surviving and giving the opportunity to hate life not being killed so no it does not mean that why why would you not mean that to me to me the data shows that literally just said that so when people survive for longer there are more people who have mental health conditions that grow to the point where it becomes damaging to them to the point where they commit suicide in societies where you starve to death and you were put in prison and you are killed those people don't grow because they're killed so in your society they're murdered in our society the people who with mental health conditions can get to the point where they kill themselves that's indicative that our society is better than yours because in yours they're murdered in ours they live long enough we don't we don't murder 80s we don't murder 80s what that's you assuming that's literally a thing in like every Muslim country you're poisoning the well no not every Muslim country 80s in Malaysia we don't kill them we don't kill 80s murdered in Muslim countries I think you I think you're watching too much propaganda atheists and religious skeptics can be executed in at least 13 nations Afghanistan stop me when any of these are not Muslim societies tell me which one is not a Muslim society Afghanistan Iran Malaysia Pakistan Qatar Saudi Arabia I would disagree with that why would you include measure in this I don't think I don't believe this I mean this is totally wrong because I don't really just Google the discrimination against atheists you're asking Google to tell me yes yes because Google shows the evidence of people getting their heads cut off but I'm leaving but I'm leaving in the Muslim world okay you are leaving in the other side Malaysia Malaysia and religious skeptics can be executed in at least 13 alphabetic Afghanistan Iran Malaysia the third one on the list rather than just like yes it yes it is no it can't or no it doesn't we we got to move on to another one unless there's new info that's gonna be brought forward because otherwise it's starting to repeat itself I'm running out of points so I think I'll just give TJ T jump his answers I mean his points if he has any so I'll just stop here yes yeah any points that you'd like to run through Tom any questions before we go to the Q&A nope you got it we are gonna jump into the Q&A folks want to say thanks so much for your questions you've got a good amount so far but we might have enough time to get through more if you submit them and we're gonna jump into it right now thanks so much and want to remind you our guests are linked in the description if you want to hear more you certainly can by clicking on those links and that includes at the podcast we put our guest links in the podcast description box as well case you didn't know we do have a podcast and you can find modern day debate the podcast on all podcast apps out there this one coming in from constellation Pegasus says why does the apologist believe in Allah since he didn't exist before or during the first temple period isn't Allah late in human history you want me to answer this that's I think it's for you yep alright okay so basically there is this misconception that all is the name of pagan god etc this is not true okay or what has existed right from the beginning of time itself or war means God in Arabic okay so the equivalent name for or war in the Hebrew would be Elohim okay so Elohim is the name for God in Hebrew right so if you are saying that or war didn't exist before the first temple then what about Elohim because basically a Muslim believes in Elohim the God of Abraham okay we believe in Elohim we believe in God we believe in Ashraddai whatever it is you call him by whatever names to him belong the most beautiful of names okay so to say that God doesn't I mean to say to imply as though the name or war is something alien or something distinct from Elohim or from the God of Abraham is totally wrong linguistically and historically okay that's my answer you got it and thank you very much for this question coming from constellation Pegasus strikes again says where was the Quran at when the Hebrew Bible was being written I think that's for you again Muslim apologist most of these are going to be for you by the way until until much later in the 6th century right so it was preserved in the book we believe Muslims believe that the Quran was or the text the divine text was was preserved in the heavens called the law mafous okay so when the time came for it to be revealed on earth it came down in the 6th century to the prophet Muhammad yeah you got it this one coming in from mark reed thanks for tuning in all the way from Australia mark says for Muslim apologist since you can be raised an atheist and still have morals doesn't that show that morals or moral values come from society and culture rather than religion well in order to be raised you need to be raised by your parents or your father figure or your mother figure or whoever is it or grandmother or your grandfather etc so it could be that your your grandparents were religious or maybe they were they had some values that they brought over from their former religions if they were if they are 80s or etc so regardless you are brought up in the way that your parents or your guardians have brought you up in as the prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam in the hadith he said that his child is born pure as a white cloth okay and this child is raised according to how his parents shaped them whether he became he becomes a Jew or a Christian or a majus or a Zoroastrian he is raised in the religion that his guardians or his parents boy i'm in okay so basically this means that whatever values that you carry forth as an even you know you call your 70s it came from your parents okay regardless okay you got this one coming from do appreciate it mac the human says potato is the meaning of life checkmate and grimlock thanks very much says let's see we are want to remind you folks we are looking for more serious questions we really do want to increase the quality of the podcast in terms of the q&a rather than trolling happy camper thanks for your question let's see xx wlz xx thanks for your question says this is a great lesson yep we are definitely looking for like questions rather than personal attacks folks i know that you know so it's like uh personal attacks really don't make it look like you can have the intellectual high ground when you're just doing personal attacks on people i want you to attack the arguments azian talks says quick 200 your history lesson i think this is for you muslim apologists they said life expectancy has doubled globally and population is 20 times greater than it was and this is thanks to atheists so muslim apologists what do you think of them apples um are you trying to deny the existence of muslim doctors in the in the world today there are muslim doctors there are muslim specialists there are muslim everywhere there are there are even christian you know christian doctors there are buddhist doctors i mean uh i would say that this is a collective effort of the human race not just specifically to one group of people so um if if the population growth and health care improvement has done a lot of good then yes all kudos to them but um i don't think this is uh specifically because of 80s yeah or any particular group of people yeah yeah this one coming in from don fulman thanks so much says muslim apologists can you tell me one great muslim scientist's name or al-khawar is me yeah if no rushed yeah or uh yeah if no rushed if no rushed have you seen her and al-khawar is me three i gave you three names yeah you got this one coming in from xxwzlzxx says according to the world health organization 77 of global suicides happened in the third world the third world is significantly more religious than the first world sorry is that question for me yep okay can you repeat the question i didn't quite get it sorry you bet let me just load this up two seconds this one coming in from same person xxwlz says according to the world health organization 77 of global suicides happened in the third world the third world is significantly more religious than the first world um i think i would need to see the data um it could be from 80s for all you know or from other you know from other belief systems that do not have a god because you see um Buddhism is actually is some sort of 80s artistic as well because they don't believe in a in a deity in a way so um it's hard to judge it's hard for me to comment because i don't have the data i mean this is just general right so it's not it's not broken down into religions or belief systems you see so this one coming in from the noon says would the muslim concede that the greeks can contribution to subjects like science and philosophy are proof of their theology or does this only apply to islamic achievements well the greeks have done their work through but it is muslims who took that uh that knowledge and uh made it great and formed the basis of the modern world today because without the muslims without muslims bridging that gap uh we wouldn't have even a computer yeah you got it and thank you very much for this question mb con says quick question to muslim apologist did prophet muhammad split the moon in half that's my answer yes okay i didn't hear you mic q922 says why does the quran claim the bible is previous scripture and for the muslims to read it then though it claims that it's corrupted uh we muslims don't believe that the bible is reviewed from god okay we believe only in the Torah the Torah the in jail the the gospel and the gospel singular gospel and the zabul the psalms okay what you have in the bible is a combination of various writings which you claim to be the Torah the the psalms the in you have three in you have four in jails okay four gospels okay four writings claiming to be gospels you have the uh the epistles of Paul you have revelations etc so there are there are right so these writings have been mixed up so much so that that we muslims or the quran says that uh these writings have now been corrupted and uh it is not the Torah it's not as we understand it as we muslims understand it or even the zabul or the inje okay these are three separate books not one book called the bible yeah so that's my answer coming in from ahan says the muslim apologist says uh you would be a musler you would not be a muslim you'd be an atheist if you were born in an atheist country or a christian if you were born in a christian country i think that they're trying to imply that this uh should undermine your confidence in your belief um maybe i would have been who knows but um uh we can't say because i was i was born as a muslim of course but um if god has wills it i would have discovered islam eventually okay if god doesn't will it then i would be yeah this believer forever it's up it's actually your personal choice whether you want to look for the truth or not okay so um so for everyone everyone is given the i think your connection might be uh i don't know if you can hear me we'll give you a minute just to see if the connection comes back in the meantime do you want to remind you folks as always our desert linked in the description also as you can see at the bottom right of your screen we're absolutely thrilled for this juicy epic controversial debate tomorrow morning should ex muslims be punished that's going to be tomorrow with a positive prophet and khalid who's a newcomer can you hear me now yes like you got it i we weren't able to hear your last response or this man that was my answer just to be sure that we were heard all of it i want to give you a chance if you want to say it again i i didn't hear the last maybe half of it i'm not sure how much you had left uh i was just saying that everyone is given a chance to seek the truth and everyone is given equal opportunity to know god yeah gotcha this one coming in from do appreciate your question from mb says what evidence is there for the moon being split uh okay so um i believe that there was a indian king during those times we actually saw the moon split and he became a muslim after that they were recorded in the history books okay so these are the evidences yeah unfortunately i don't have the references with me but this is essentially part of it yeah you got it this one coming in from mike q92 who says who were the thousands of prophets sent all over the world according to muslim belief where is the evidence hadith where the prophets said that uh thousands of prophets and messengers were sent throughout the world okay so uh we don't but we but they are not named okay we only have 25 names in the quran so um it's not easy to to you know i can't just simply say just because this philosopher is great therefore he might be a prophet or that no uh there are arguments that the buddha might be a prophet or confucius might have been a prophet etc or even socrates might have been a prophet but we can't say for sure okay that this uh not named we these are not these people are not named so we don't know yeah okay so um the answer is we don't know but the quran or sorry the the prophet himself mentions uh this right you got it this one coming in from marty mad scientist i think they mean for atheists in general i'm not sure they say tjump what's a good question uh to ask you that has not been asked you before i have no idea maybe they mean like what's a tough question for atheists what's a tough question for atheists that's my best guess what they mean by that unless they mean it like what's a personal question you've never been asked uh tough question for atheists um i guess a tough question for atheists would be something like most human nature because we're of our personal biases we like to have answers to things and so uh many theists like to claim well you can't answer this or you don't know this and atheists honestly say yes we don't know the answer to that and then the theist thinks that's evidence for their position because they like to make stuff up and so i think the hardest question for atheists is how do you honestly represent the evidence and not play into human fallacious biases um and that's that's a tough one for atheists to answer this one coming in from chris gammon says tjump his argument sounded like quote let's see atheists don't have an explanation for the universe or life unquote as a negative for atheism and a positive for islam could you respond to that yes that's literally the thing i just said so yeah that's called an argument from ignorance it's um you don't know the answer i've made up an answer therefore my made up answer is better than you admitted you don't know it's a common fallacy in human reasoning that humans pre the scientific era used to thought was valid reasoning they thought that well because you couldn't come up with an answer and they could come up with an answer in their imaginary minds that that must mean that their imaginary minds must be better than your inability to come up with an answer when in reality the correct scientific and logical way to approach it is to wait for actual empirical novel testable predictions to confirm one hypothesis and until you have evidence and you would follow the evidence wherever it leads you would admit you don't know that is the rational better intellectual position to have hold in all cases this question coming in from s astin says please ask muslim apologists to describe how he would fail then correct a science experiment to measure a god i don't know what they i don't i don't i don't believe it's simple okay anything that can be seen or uh it's not god okay if i can see something that's not god because god cannot be perceived by the human mind it's not measured by science it's not measured by he cannot be measured by human terms okay so for me that that that question is illogical because if god can be measured by scientific tools then it is not god it's that simple you got it and let's see here just put a poll on the old live chat and then f censor said and f censorship says it's a shame they don't repeat questions to the debaters posted in the live chat unless you give them money that actually the last two were actually unpaid they're just people tagged me in the live chat so you probably rather than making up lies you should probably pay attention but thanks for this next question coming in from karag nightwolf says why does muslim the muslim assume that the highest suicide rate of atheism has anything to do with the atheism is that not post hoc ergo proctor hoc isn't this uh correlation doesn't equal causation kind of mistake but but that is what the graph says and um i have a description i mean i wish i could share the the data here but the thing is this graphic that i have here actually commented that he has something to do with atheism because it's from a research where uh the scientists were studying whether uh you know uh atheism has any correlation or sorry religion or non-religion has any correlation with mental health depression okay so this is the result of this was the result of the study so yes definitely atheism has some connection to this yeah based on the results of this experience of this study okay this one coming in from exit music says does muslim apologists believe that his ancestors were forced to abandon their own religion for islam by the sword in the past no i believe because you see um uh my ancestors were from java island in indonesia today so um the how islam was spread to this region in the in the southeast asian region was through muslim traders okay muslim traders from the east from from from the middle east from the china from india so they came here and they did missionary work and uh i'm pretty sure my ancestors were fascinated by by their by their da wa by their preaching and uh they were convinced of the truth of islam and they and because of that they reverted to islam so that is essentially what happened here in this in in this part of the world islam did not spread uh did not scape there wasn't there were no islamic armies that came to this part of the world and yet majority of the people here in this region okay muslim you got it and any other questions out there i think that's it we i think we got to all of them we did have one last one i'm gonna humor you just because it's the very last one even though like i said we're wanting more serious questions but nonetheless michael mccaffrey thanks says james how much money does to uh do your opening on helium we're no amount and want to say thank you folks for your questions thank you very much most of all to our guests tjump and muslim apologist i am thankful that we had this debate tonight i hope you guys have a great rest of your night out there i'm going to be back in just a moment with a post credit scene let you know about upcoming debates and want to say one last thank you to tjump as well as the muslim apologist you're welcome yeah thanks will be one last one let's see thanks marty mad scientist says dala dala pay it forward for another unpaid chat question i i think actually like no joke as far as i had seen scrolling up as far as i could i think we got to all of the unpaid chat questions as well i'll double check but yeah scrolling up to the top i think we got to all the questions tonight including just the ones tagging me in the chat that we're not super chat so thanks for that appreciate your support but do want to say thanks folks i'm going to be back in just a moment and with that we are very excited for this other juicy debate tomorrow night with destiny versus gavin mcginnis it is going to be a juicy one so stick around i'll tell you about that in just a moment and gentlemen absolutely thrilled to have you here want to say thanks so much for all of your support we are absolutely pumped about the future in particular tomorrow night my dear friends this is going to be amazing you do not want to miss this destiny and gavin mcginnis as you can see at the bottom right corner of your screen it is going to be amazing they're debating whether or not joe rogan's debate was or i should say his podcast does more harm than good you don't want to miss that one and in particular it has to do with the context of covet you guys definitely will want to tune into that one and hit that subscribe button if you haven't already as we are very excited for that one citizen good to see you there in the old live chat and do want to remind you if you want to submit a question as tonight we did yeah we actually it doesn't happen every night sometimes we don't get to it because we have just so many questions where some nights we do get to read the unpaid you could just say the normal chat questions and so we did actually get to do them tonight but i just noticed some of the questions in chat you have to tag me though so if you tag me if you put at moderna debate that makes it easier for me to see them because it's already i'm trying to pay attention to a lot and so if you if you don't tag me it's like come on like meet me halfway so we want to say jim johnson thanks so much says i had a question it is true jim i gotta let you know and i'm willing to give you next time what we can do is i'll i'll assure your question for whatever next debate it is to the front of the list i i did notice that your question came in it but it said that you erased it so here's what i had on my side is that i think it said see here let me find it i'll get back to you but i know that i did see it said something like withdrawn or restricted or it said something that i don't know if you put a word in it that youtube didn't like or if it was something that you deleted but anyway happy to ask your question first time uh first one in line next debate but want to say thanks everybody for being with us and yeah i am surprised though that it is like it is kind of strange that so like i see this gross patate in the chat says everything has a price lol again i did read the non super chat questions so like you guys it's i could get it if it was a night in which we didn't get to those chat questions but when we actually read the live chat questions that were not super chats i don't see why you're lying and saying that we didn't read those so i do want to say like folks like for real i don't know why you're like being so dishonest but we do want to say thank you so much for hanging out with us in the old chat good to see you nano as well as my name last name thanks for coming by as well as such a nav good to see you this tomorrow is going to be epic in all caps and you're right about that sjsxf thanks for coming by says james turn to jesse lee peterson amazing good to see you there friend and mb con glad you're with us martin age glad you were here excellent music glad to have you with us kca randy and anthony rogers glad that you are with us and mb con good to see you my dear friends we're excited about the future a lot of juicy upcoming debates coming up and let's see here jens van brockhoven glad to see you says is this tomorrow yeah we have two huge debates tomorrow for real uh the debate this one that you're seeing on screen in the bottom right of your screen is going to be at night and then we're absolutely pumped that not only do we have that one but tomorrow morning we have this juicy debate apostate prophet and newcomer khalid are going to be debating whether or not ex-muslims should be punished so that's going to be one you don't want to miss as well want to say mike keenan thanks for coming by as well as s astin said thanks for reading my question appreciate it even let's see my pleasure and then my name last name good to see you and rembrandt 972 glad to have you with us a long time viewer right i think i remember seeing you here for a long time and messa kamir thanks for coming by mau de mighty thanks for coming by says question for tomorrow's debate why is destinies let's see i you'd have to ask destiny about his beard and be con good to see you thanks for your question hey that's a possibility that might work with me and then thanks for your question marty mad scientist says all good with me i did not intend controversy was a sincere gesture to many haters leaping to conclusions thanks i appreciate that no worries i didn't take anything uh i didn't uh take any offense to it but yeah i said like i see somebody right now in chat k is the person named k you aren't akila says they read the paid comments yeah we do read those but tonight we also as mentioned a lot of nights we do have time and we actually read the regular chat questions as well that are not paid so uh and then the christian metalhead says i've seen james take many unpaid questions and yeah we did take a number of them tonight so again folks i do recommend don't lie it doesn't make your case look better it just makes it look nobody believes you you're destroying your own credibility so another night though it's true we don't always get to the unpaid normal chat questions we've got a lot of questions that come in and we do have to let the debaters by because that's one thing i am amazed by sometimes people are like james like you have to read my question and it's like i'm not your slave like no i don't like if the and that's the thing too is like if the debaters have to go like if we promise them that we'll get get them out by a certain time because they've got busy schedules like we're not obligated to read every question and so we do prioritize the super chats because we do appreciate the support of the channel but for the people that are like well i sent in a normal chat question and you didn't read mine and it's like and they're angry and i'm like we try our best but we don't get to it every night and the fact that you think you're entitled to have it read makes it look like you think that i'm your slave like we do our best but want to say thanks everybody for your support and we do like those don't get me wrong we do appreciate the unpaid questions as we do need questions for the q and a so it really does help when you actually do put in questions whether it be a super chat or not we really do appreciate that support as you guys really do help make this channel awesome and that's one way you do is just by putting in questions so we do appreciate that and want to say thanks for coming by it richard americae am i saying it right let me know richard glad you are with us be truthful thanks for being with us says we know you do better make sure your kind words be truthful i appreciate that and let's see here proper fpv we are glad you were with us happy camper thanks for coming by says so excited for tomorrow's debate and then john howe said morning debate nice i agree we're i'm excited for that one tomorrow as well and let's see thanks for your super chat question j j schneider says new vid t-jumps adventure featuring dart dawkins and godless girl coming sunday with outer was it with with a james cameo i didn't know i was in it that sounds juicy crazy fun my t-jump fan scheduled to premiere that sounds juicy i'm excited that dart dawkins dart a lot of guys you guys didn't know dart dawkins is actually my dad i made that up you're not really but uh dart dawkins won't come back on we we wish he would but he won't but let's see thanks run brand 972 says yeah i've been watching modern day debate for a while oh well that's cool i thought i was like i know i've seen your name around here for years chas 119 thanks for coming by we appreciate you being with us and then yeah if it is it's true like if it's an if it's something to insult the guest because they said imagine if you paid and you did not have your question read or quote unquote question is it's true like we're not gonna if you want to pay us to insult the guest like we're that's not over here for we're not here to insult the guests and so we're not going to read those types of super chats but want to say brother ben thanks for coming by so don't don't send them is what i'm saying is like if it's a sincere question send it that's great but i i do like some people i don't understand like they just don't seem to get it they're like i want to attack the person and i'm like attack the arguments not the person so thanks for coming by gene brass good to see you as well as jim johnson thanks for coming by this how do i sign up for a debate the email me at modern day debate uh it's a possibility we can get you in but i gotta tell you it is not easy uh so in other words we've got so many requests right now it's a challenge for me to get them all in for real and then the biggest thing is we have sometimes people who come in and they're like hey we've already got our debate set up we had a spat on twitter will you host us and i'm like yeah like you know they like they've already set it up for us so it's like okay sure and so that makes it easier on me and then the other thing too is like sometimes it's like people will so for example uh brenton langle went and he got uh dr david d freedman to come on for a debate which is a huge help to us and so for me i was like yeah like we'll prioritize that because getting david d freedman who's a very famous popular economist is or like wow of course that's a huge honor for us to host him and so i gotta tell you if you that is one thing that we really appreciate and we usher those in the front of the line too because it helps is that if you happen to find somebody who's a big name out there that's willing to debate you that really does help a lot as well so we kind of prioritize those because those people put the work in for us like they've helped us and that helps us grow modern day debate so want to say thank you guys for being with us let's see i let's see we got a we got a lot of haters in chat not a lot i'd say it's a small percent as a whole but uh there's some people in chat tonight i like this one i like ricky depear they don't give me any like examples they just claim it says pathetic james address the facts and stop hiding behind your failed attempt at neutrality i like that you've got a little bit of fight in you but yes we are excited if you're a hater if you're a hate watcher you just love to hate watch do you get off to that hey we're glad you're here too because that helps us in the algorithm no joke want to say thank you guys so much for being with us we are absolutely excited my dear friends and i'm serious though if you are here watching it really does help uh because even if you're just watching even if you don't hit like although i gotta tell you we're so close to 200 likes we could get to 180 we're at 173 already if you haven't yet hit that like button we're so close to 180 and i've got to tell you though is that even if you don't hit the like button even if you're just like yeah just hang out here that does help us so we want to say thanks for hate watching thanks for watching if you enjoy the channel because youtube actually the way the algorithm works is they look at what you're watching or what i watch or you know what anybody watches and they say look at what this person is watching and let's look at other channels out there that watch similar stuff that this person is watching and we'll recommend it to them as well because odds are good since they seem to have a lot of the same interest that they'll like this modern nativate channel as well so it does actually for real it helps us in the algorithm just when you happen to hang out here and then gene brass says thanks for the shout out james my pleasure gene thank you Caleb rm thanks for your kind word says love what you do thank you Caleb and seriously means a lot and chris gammon says the real way to get on the channel is to bribe james with tons of soy that's true nobody likes soy more than me my dear friends i've got to tell you i have so much soy every day you wouldn't even believe it but want to say thanks for your question this one coming in from where was the christian metalhead says modern day debate got to drop off but god bless you man really happy to see how much the channel is growing thanks for your support seriously that means a lot i appreciate your positivity it really does mean a lot but yeah i want to say thank you so much for all of your support drag mckinney thanks for your support as well and thanks cp who says i love watch and hate watch at the same time thank you cp we appreciate that but yeah it's seriously um let's see thanks chess one one nine says i'm not a hater i mean i am but i respect you mr host i hope you understand thanks for that support i i appreciate it like i said i we we don't try to like push you know sometimes when we see critics in the chat we don't want to ban them like we're pretty reluctant to ban people because we we know that we like having people even if they're hate watching we like that they're here because it helps us in the algorithm and so if you are here and you're trying to like discourage us like please do stick around like you know we're we're gonna try to you know keep you around as long as we can because it helps us f censorship thanks for coming by says perhaps i was wrong in this specific debate but i've seen it before yeah well that's the thing i i did uh it says and to call me a liar isn't cool man well you were lying because tonight we did actually read them and you just stated as as a general statement that we don't read those so uh you know you really should consider about like what you're actually saying before you say it and then says uh explaining it to take you for a question is good but calling a liar isn't hey yeah i'm telling you you were lying that's just if you don't want to own it that's okay but i mean if you have some humility and you just kind of own it and say okay and i won't i won't lie again then you know it's no problem but if you're just like no i'm not going to own it it's like we've had tons of questions over many debates where we read we read questions that were not super chats and so uh that's the thing though is in those times where we don't get to read them i don't i would say i still honestly don't think that people have a complaint because it's like hey the debaters aren't morally obligated to be your slaves and likewise i'm not morally morally obligated to be your slave and stick around and answer every single question that comes in like we have our own lives too that we have to get to and so it's like if the debaters like we promise them we'll get them out of here in two hours then we're going to get them out of here in two hours and so if people are mad they're like you didn't read answer my question uh it's like we're not morally obligated and the fact that you think that you're entitled to that it just shows you're an entitled person and you just frankly it just makes you kind of look like you're kind of uh you think that we're your slave or something you look a little self-centered so it's like we try to do our best but uh i'm going to put those people in their place it likewise i saw people like one time somebody who was like complaining at Kaz who's one of our awesome guest mods and they're like oh i didn't read my question and it's like listen Kaz is not your slave like Kaz has got things he's got a family he's a busy guy and so it's like he he tries his best like he tries to read the unpaid ones as well but the the fact that some people like actually get mad and they think they're entitled to our time is like we do our best and uh if you think you're that if you're that entitled like and especially if you're gonna lie you're gonna say that we don't read those that we don't read unpaid ones it's like uh we oftentimes do so let's see creep gorp says modern day debate are an unverified creator says you are aren't an are an unverified creator i can't tip you with bat tokens look into brave browser i'll check into that thanks for letting me know about that seriously brave browser okay i'm gonna put it in here right now but yeah thank you guys seriously we do appreciate the guests and that's the thing too is like the guests are coming on for exposure like that they're just trying to get their name out there and stuff like that so or because they just love to debate some people don't even have a channel they love to come on and debate so we really do appreciate them dealt in november says james when are you getting sally da wa on the show i don't know who she is but uh i i'm open to it and then thanks for your kind words jim johnson for saying modern day debate has a ring to it i appreciate that and then wildlife good to see you glad you are with us and mike keenon says do you support the honkinging is the honkinging the truckers you mean in canada i honestly don't know like i'm not i'm not just saying this to like duck the question i i don't know exactly what it is i think it's do i understand right that they're like they're uh they're driving to toronto to protest they they say that they don't want to get the vaccine is that it i honestly don't know i'm i'm asking i like i'm not taking a side mike keenon uh let's see chess 119 says james are you the final boss of the debate channel what topic would you debate that's funny i i honestly think i'm probably just an average debater statistically that's what we should all estimate usually about ourselves is you could say it's the maximum likelihood estimator and statistics is the average i i love to debate and i used to debate uh working on my phd right now i don't want to debate because it just puts me in a controversial but potentially controversial spot where i've already had one professor try to uh she reported the channel to the chair of our department i don't i don't know why because i'm i'm the moderator i'm not even debating but nonetheless it i guess is that controversial to where even being the moderator some people have a problem with it or at least that one i don't know if there's anybody else besides her but let's see brian kataran good to see you and brooks sparrow thanks for all of your support and thanks for doing a great job moderating in the old twitch chat jsk thanks for coming by thanks for your your kind words i really do appreciate that that means a lot and a med we are glad you were here thanks for dropping by a med and then let's see happy frenzy thanks for coming by but yeah it's like um yeah i just appreciate you guys so thank you guys i like i think that's yeah it's uh it's always a fun time whether you be athiast whether you be christian whether you be muslim you name it we are glad you were here we really do hope you feel welcome and mike kenan says uh yes i i really don't know about it um in terms of my personal opinion i think the vaccine is a good idea it sounds like it's reduces your chances of having a serious reaction like having to go to the hospital and that sounds pretty good um in terms of whether or not i don't know what the rules are in canada so i want to be careful about what i say i don't i'm not super big on like saying that truckers would have to like if the government is saying it i'm not super like especially if truckers are driving around like alone uh i know that they interact you oftentimes during their stops they'll interact with people but i i personally don't uh feel compelled i don't really uh you could say that government mandates don't appeal to me i i think it's something that people hopefully we can persuade them and uh without being a what is it called a government mandate jim johnson says uh modern day debate they are going to ottawa to fight vaccine forces mandates gotcha good to know and then a red ape says i'd like to be a debater but i'm a nobody and don't know who to reach out to i if you go to youtube's uh youtube channels and you click on there first you look at the channel and then you click on the tabs you know on the top of the youtube profile you click on the about tab it will show you uh you can usually click on a button that will let you get their email now not everybody youtuber has it showing but a lot of them do and so i i've got to let you know like that's one way to get ahold of people and so it's like it's just it's hard for me to like set up debates right now because seriously i can't keep up with my emails i just um it's hard to find someone too because like some people are like well you should just find someone else to do it it's like it's hard to find people like um we had a person who well i hope he's okay because um uh long story short yeah it's hard to find it's a lot there's a lot to do so we're doing our best but thanks for your support brooks barrow says let's get to 200 likes we're at 192 likes already you guys we can totally get another eight likes which will get us to 200 likes for this live stream do want to say your support really does mean a lot as that helps us in terms of our discoverability seriously the youtube algorithm does give a little bit of a boost to us in terms of recommending our videos to more people if people are liking that like button and so that really does help us and we have no shame about it we want to grow like we'll be honest like we want to grow in terms of our subscribers we want to grow in terms of our video views and the reason is we think that we're providing something valuable to youtube it's a neutral platform we want everybody to have their fair shot and making their case on a level playing field we want everybody to be treated fairly whether they be muslim atheist christian politically left politically right black white gay straight you name it we really do want everybody to get a fair shot that's important to us so that if you believe in that value with us if you hold that value as dearly as us namely that you say hey i like that i want everybody to get their fair shot and this channel is doing their best to do that hey hit that like button because that does help us as we pursue that vision and as we continue to grow on youtube and our impact we are just thrilled you guys thank you guys for helping us get where we've gotten but hey our story is just beginning we're excited don't get me wrong i'm thankful that we have 64 000 and by you by the way just a month ago we hit 60 000 so we have hit in the last month we had a big month because of the conference we had 4 000 new people come to the channel in the last month so thank you guys for sharing videos stuff like that on twitter retweeting whatever it is sharing it on facebook that helps us and i gotta tell you you guys seriously thank you guys because you have made this possible you guys have supported this channel in so many ways we've already blown past that goal of 200 likes we've got 207 with just another three likes we can get to 210 so we want to say thank you guys for your support and then mau de mighty says where is the pool i can buy into for how long it takes youtube to ban this channel i don't know i think that we're gonna be around for a while and the reason is we actually do try to follow the you could say the terms of service and we have gotten a strike before it was technically a strike warning we appealed it and we won so we are pretty careful and i do think that you know like a lot of people win appeals it's not that hard but want to say thanks doc twat says i don't know what that day views but says james is doing a great job i appreciate that doc seriously we're one like away from 210 so do want to encourage you if you believe in the vision with us if you're excited with us and our story is just beginning my dear friends because we're determined we are absolutely committed we are on a determined march to with by the end of the year we want to make it to 100 000 subscribers we believe we can totally do that we are absolutely pumped for that and i've got to tell you guys the reason is not because we're like oh we're all about numbers it's more that we're about impact we want to make a difference on youtube we want everybody say hey you know what if i'm a muslim or if i'm an atheist or if i'm a christian is there a channel where i can go to and i can actually make my case and i won't have a moderator try to jump in the debate me you know and take sides or i won't have the channel put out a video after the debate that says oh man that debater was so stupid or their arguments were so bad we don't do any of that we want it to be as fair as possible and so if you're like hey that sounds like a cool thing to me we like this channel we like that it's around and we don't have videos that put out like let's say a pro you know let's say a pro muslim message or a pro atheist or a pro christian message like it's purely like debates that's it that's all the debate channel is is debates and so we are excited to do our best to give everybody their fair shot and we want to say thank you guys so much though we are absolutely pumped for just the growth of this channel and your guys the support because like we said we're excited about that vision of providing a neutral platform so that everybody gets their chance to make their case on a level playing field as we strive to get different people from dicks different walks of life discussing the big questions of life so i want to say thanks for your support you guys in that and then let's see mau de mighty says i like this channel i don't like this platform namely youtube odyssey and rumble are better i'm open we might do uh let's see we might do what is it uh let's see sorry i'm like i'm i'm a little bit sleep deprived it's it's been man it's been a rough last five days of sleep i'm not on purpose i try to get eight hours a night but i just don't always fall asleep very well um what was your question sorry oh yeah yeah we're open to going on those platforms i gotta figure out how to stream at all of them at the same time yet tour says james what is your position theist or atheist i'm actually i love everybody so i love atheists i love theists i love agnostics you name it i'm a theist personally but for me i like being friends with atheists i like being friends with muslims christians you name it and then almed says can we please get a two hour coke versus pepsi with comparisons of ingredients and methods of creation everything please debate daddy thanks for your question maybe someday but yeah uh amazing says nano thanks for your support nano and then but yeah it's uh thanks for your support wildlife says this platform is cool with me and thanks doc twat says james doesn't need people demanding who he's allowed to platform yeah i mean we're definitely we're gonna offend some people for example tomorrow's tomorrow the morning debate is probably gonna offend a lot of people uh nonetheless we're gonna host it and we're gonna like it and we're not gonna apologize because i'm sure some people might ask for an apology or even demand an apology but we're not going to so we have i mean we think through it it's not like we just half hazardly or like you know let's host it and you know like we actually do consider what we're hosting before we actually host it it's not just that we you know like oh or just throw this together and not think about it because i i do i take it seriously like i actually do think about um like what are like the ethical like things that are going on here if we host this person or that topic so you know i get it but f-censorship says let's see wow put me in my head it's like you're you're angry but yeah we love that you're glad we're glad that you're here f-censorship that seriously helps us in the algorithm and martin h says that was actually well said good night thank you martin h for your support that means a lot i appreciate you saying that and then wow mao dumity says so you're demisexual i don't even know what that means but travis pratt good to see you and commentator warrior the jesus christ follower thanks for coming by says can you bring christian prince i'm open to bringing christian prince i think um moody or the perfect dowel wants to debate christian prince so if christian prince is open to it i don't know if he wants to come on you you got to let me know if he's open to that uh let's see f-censorship let's see f-censorship like i'm calling you out like yeah i like i'm going to call you out you were lying i don't think i'm bad for saying that uh because you actually were and that's the thing is but when i say attack the arguments instead of the person if somebody is lying so like if somebody comes up on the stream and they they just flagrantly lie i'm fine with people saying hey that that person's being dishonest so for example like let's say that uh let me think of an example like let's say they pulled up that you know a paper that one of the speaker cited and they said look like this paper says the opposite of what the speaker is saying like they're not telling the truth that's fine what i don't like is when people say like oh that person is so disingenuous like they have to be dishonest right now it's like unless you have evidence like if you can show me a paper that you know shows that they're misleading you know and that they're actually like reading let's say the paper they're reading it in such a way to misrepresent it like where it's like it clearly doesn't say what the person is saying that it says in terms of let's say even the title like totally cool like i i'm not against people calling people out but my thing is a lot of times we get this kind of like oh hey you love you believe in your magic sky daddy dummy blah blah blah or you are you believe in the fairy tale of evolution dummy and that stuff it's like okay that's not useful so let's see jens brockhaven says james just likes to cuddle peeps it's true and mike keenon says i love i like your new sunglasses thank you for that mike and then k dibs 18 thanks for coming by says i miss the debate might have to rewind it you definitely should it was a juicy one at night there's no doubt about it and bill pasto am i saying it right we're glad you were here captain but glad you made it thanks so much says this is my go-to channel now watching stuff modern day debate background noise modern day debate sleepy time modern day debate you rock james thanks seriously that means a lot i really do appreciate that and i get that i i've listened to like a lot of times i listen to my friends channel is like because it's just like if i'm like dozing off or something it's just comfortable to like listen to like people you consider your friends you know so it's like it's different like it's it's a good feeling but brooksbarrow is right we've got a discord which is linked in the description and i'm going to pin that to the top of the chat let's farm and others have done a fantastic job of making the discord for modern day debate it's the official discord they have made it awesome and so we want to do we just want to say we appreciate that that really does mean a lot james has got one of the better uh reputations thanks for your kind views and the says neutral platform for different views to be challenged i really do appreciate that doc seriously that means a lot and let's see comment warrior the jesus christ follower says have you ever been demonetized by youtube only certain videos we've never had the channel demonetized you have to be pretty naughty to get your channel just flat out demonetized uh usually what it is is they will you know they give you a warning and they'll sometimes demonetize some of our videos but that's like you know that's not that weird a lot of a lot of channels have that happen and then uh and i would say it's pretty it's pretty rare now almost everything we have is monetized now it used to be the case that for example if we had a topic on the channel of a b o r t i o n i think i spell that right we would get demonetized like every debate on that topic but now we don't uh it's rare that we do so that's cool robo furry man is it furry man or fury man i think it's supposed to be fury sorry robo fury man uh we are glad you were with us but uh but yeah i'm ed thank you for your kind words i seriously appreciate that um says literally haven't seen such a neutral host as james thank you for your service to dialogue and discussion i love you debate daddy thank you for your kind words we are excited and we really do appreciate it we want to we really do want to make you feel welcome is whether you'd be muslim whether you be atheist whether you be christian you name it we really are glad you were here seriously and then doc trot says gavin versus destiny should be epic you guys i gotta tell you it is true tomorrow stick around hang around the channel tomorrow all day because in the morning you can get up with us and you can watch this debate at the bottom right of your screen it's going to be epic apostate prophet and khalid are doing this especially controversial topic i gotta be honest it's the most controversial topic i think we've hosted so you don't want to miss that one live hit that subscribe button if you haven't already then tomorrow night and during the middle of the day you're like what do i do during the day we've got a lot of debates we've got about 600 and 690 debates that we've hosted so i would encourage you you can actually you know you can watch some of those other debates while you're waiting for this one in the bottom right of your screen between destiny and gavin mcginnis this is going to be a giant debate we're really excited about this and so you guys you don't want to miss this one it is going to be amazing destiny and gavin mcginnis are going to be live tomorrow night we're really excited about that and they're debating whether or not joe rogan's podcast is you could say doing more harm than good when it comes to the topic of c o v i d so we are excited about that but let's see here happy campers as james have any of the debates change your mind on a topic absolutely i've had my mind change on different it's usually not like a stance like where i'm like okay i moved from being like politically like democrat to republican or vice versa it's not like that it's more like oh that argument i thought was unsound but now i heard a good defense of it of the objection that i thought you know knocked it down and so now i'm like oh okay it's actually you know so i changed my mind in our argument like i've got those examples but mike keenance says uh but for serious i respect you what you do i'm an atheist and give credit for giving platform to whoever i do appreciate that that means a lot mike seriously i do really do appreciate that and rembrandt says james is naughty and can't spell i did that on purpose it's true fury not furry but yeah mike keenan you guys are funny want to want to say thanks so much side show nap for all your support you guys huge round of applause for side show nav who does so much to help this channel and has helped us with the conference and just i could go on and on about all the things that he's done so we really do appreciate him is it my camera just like totally zoom in on me is that just me but comment where your jesus christ followers says can you bring ben Shapiro lol you'll get lots of subscribers we would get a lot of new subscribers but he i think he's like 50 000 bucks so someday maybe delta november says james have you ever considered declaring a winner at the end of the debate thanks no uh i i don't consider it the reason is because i think people would be so turned off because everybody usually thinks that their side won that period that's just the way it goes uh so not always but like almost always so i feel like if i do that there's going to be so many people that are upset it's it's the funny thing is the sweet thing with a debate channel is if we just don't declare it people are happy because they'll they'll declare their side one and they're happy so like i don't know but i i'm not to say it's a bad idea like i think dylan burns it pulls it off well i don't think it's bad it's just something that for me i don't i'm like ah i'm a little bit nervous uh let's see so james you think i'm entitled from merely making a comment that i've seen videos where non-paid questions don't get asked well actually technically i was talking about people who are entitled because they say you know so-and-so you have to read my question and if you don't you know like i'm mad it's like nope like cas for example he does his best same thing for me it's like you're not entitled to our time or the debaters time we try our best to read them all but uh so no i i wasn't actually saying you were entitled i was talking about those people that i'm mentioning right now the ones who complain uh about that but the other thing is you said i've i've only uh pointed out that there are some debates where non-paid questions don't get asked that's not the way you worded it earlier before it's not the way you put it you did not qualify it like that you said james only asked paid questions so uh again you you just seem to not want to own it that you were being misleading before just own it man i don't know why it's like you just got so much like pride that you're you're wearing away on your own credibility when people are like like do you like well you know what you said is like you could just own it it was like you'd look like you were more mature and responsible and like you're gonna be in a man and you're manning up and owning it and but instead you're just like no i didn't say that it's like i know what you said if you said if you would have said it like that i would have told you that i would have agreed there's some debates where we run out of time we don't get to ask every question so it's like i would agree with it that's not the way you put it you're being extremely charitable to yourself lorenzo berelli says 511 thanks for coming by lorenzo we're glad you were here i'm about six foot and a half inch but good guess i don't know if you're guessing about me but engineer gaining glad to see you thanks for being with us and then f-censorship man you are just you are just triggered you are one you are just but we love you you you do help us in the algorithm just by being here for real and so want to say thank you guys for all of your support we love you guys even if you're hate watching it seriously does help us in the algorithm so if you hate this channel we are thankful that you're here seriously it does actually help us because youtube basically sees that you're watching and then they recommend our videos to people that have similar interests as you and so seriously we do appreciate you guys thank you guys for being with us we love you guys we hope you have a great rest of your night we're excited to see you tomorrow and thanks it was good to hang out with you guys tonight that was almost an hour we got to hang out it's about maybe 50 40 50 minutes but thank you guys this makes it fun i always do i enjoy hanging out with you guys and so i love you guys and i'm excited to see you in the next ones keeps everything all the reasonable from the unreasonable take care everybody