 Welcome to Bedford Playhouse. We're so glad that you joined us tonight. We're in our virtual version at some point. Hopefully we'll be indoors inside again. And tonight we have a really great program with Dr. Artalon. And she is an art teacher, a beginner teacher mentor, a cooperating teacher and professional artist. She teaches art and computer art at Greenwich High School in Greenwich, Connecticut and exhibits her own work, Fabulous, in New York City. She has conducted free art workshops in villages in Iran and in a juvenile detention center in Tehran. Dr. Artalon also has taught art education at Teachers College Columbia University for 18 years. She speaks four languages and have lived in seven countries. Tonight we're gonna stay with English. Okay. That's great. So Dr. Artalon, so can you tell us about the project that is somewhat similar to Sunless Shadows but different? Yes, well, thank you very much for having me and please I'm Shada. Let's keep it informal. In 2008, I mean, I go to Iran every summer, but during 2008 I was asked to conduct a free art workshop at a juvenile center. And so I went with the lady who had asked me, she used to go there every week and do exercises and she realized I was an art teacher, a professional art teacher. So she asked me if I would go and do this workshop. And I said, yes, we went and we purchased materials, the art supplies and we also bought sandwiches and drinks for the girls. And there were about 20, 25 girls between the ages of 14 to 18. So I didn't know where we were picked up in the morning and we had all the supplies in the back and we drove to the northwestern part of Tehran, this huge 10 acres compound, which was not, they didn't have police officers there. It was not guarded by security guards or police officers. The only people there monitoring the place were soldiers. And they're the soldiers who are completing their duty, their two year service. And then, so this is where they were placed. So you were kind of talking about it, it's really a rehab center more than a prison per se. That's what I think the main distinction you were making. Right, it's called the Tehran Juvenile Correction and Rehabitation Center. And it was founded in 1968 during the Shaff government, even before the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child came into force. So it was put together way ahead of its time. The juveniles are sent there by the courts and they are separated from adult convicts. They're not mingled together. And the facility functions more or less like a boarding school and not as a jail. And you were talking about some of the girls are in there for what kinds of crimes or mistakes or whatever. Well, I did not go into the area where they had the ones who had committed murders. Where I went was girls between the age of 14 and 18 who had dealt drugs, used drugs, they were runaways. They had had relationships with males out of wedlock and they had stolen, they had committed theft. And the funny thing is that it's such a adolescent thing, all these things. And I thought to myself, of course, I didn't say it, but I thought to myself, you know, half of my students here in Greenwich, Connecticut should be in prison because this is a normal behavior of adolescents testing things, trying things. They will steal every now and then, you know, they will do drugs, they'll have sex and all this stuff. But over there, it is not accepted, not the families they came from. Right, right. Well, can you tell us then how did you kind of craft the project or how did you kind of work with them? And kind of what is the role that art can play in kind of getting a lot of rehabilitation done or change? You know, if you take away that component of the technique of art making and throw it away and think of art as a way of self-expression, then anybody can make art. And it's not about how nice it looks or how realistic it looks, but it's about visualizing ideas and expressing thoughts. That's what it is. So what I did was I had a little talk with the girls, you know, I introduced myself and I said, all right, so if you could paint a picture of someplace that's really special to you, what would you paint? We had a little dialogue and there were three girls sitting in a corner on the floor and they said, we don't want to, I'm not painting. The leader said, I'm not painting. I'm not doing this art project. And the other two said, yeah, we're not doing it either. And the matron, she said, no, no, no, you have to do it. So I turned to her and I said, leave them alone. If they don't want to do it, they don't have to do it. So I handed out the supplies and they started painting. And within 15 minutes, because I just had little one-on-one dialogue with the girls, you know, I talked to them, well, tell me about this. And so what is it that you're trying to paint here and tell me the story behind it? And then the leader got up and she said, give me paper and supplies, I want to paint too. And I said, oh, great, okay, here. And then the other two, of course, followed what she was doing. And, you know, they painted for a good hour and a half, you know? And it was great. You know, I had great conversations with them and they were so open about talking to me about expressing their inner turmoil, about talking about all the hardships that they have gone through and endured. And, you know, it just touched me. Maybe it's time. Would you like to show a couple of those pieces because, I mean, they are so remarkable. Sure, absolutely. Who, okay, there we go. All right. So this is Elohe and she was a 17-year-old girl. And she's the one who said to me, I'm not going to paint. And she was a toughie, but the toughness was just the exterior. Can we see the next slide for one second? Because you can see this is, she said to me, this is whore square. And it's H-O-R or H-O-R-R. It used to be called Borecha, meaning the king's garden. But then after the revolution, every name that included the king was changed. So now it's called whore square. And I think in Arabic it means victory. I think that's what it means. But if we can go back, she said, this is where I break into cars and I steal things. And I sleep here at night. So, you know, she was a runaway and she was captured. She was caught and she said, I've been here a few months and this is not my first time. This is like my third time here. Can we go back to the painting? Did she eventually go back to her, I mean, after this rehabilitation, would she go back to her home or do you even know? I don't know. I didn't want them to think, I didn't want the authorities to think that I was snooping around. Exactly. So I ran away from home. I break into cars. And sometimes I sleep in the cars. I remember pulling her aside when she was very comfortable and she was sitting, she came and sat next to me and she was talking. And I said to her, I said, look, Elohim, whatever you do, make sure you don't get pregnant. I didn't tell her, don't have intercourse with boys. I said, don't get pregnant. She said, don't worry, I'm making sure of that, you know? And you have, it's a fact of life for them. And I just was trying to give her some advice about preventing more difficulties in her life. Yeah, yeah. Let's go to something, let's go to something else. Let's go to the next one. All right, so this is a 16-year-old runaway who also self-mute, it does self-mutilation. She said, I just paint it without even thinking about anything. But then I recalled my childhood. Apparently she used to paint very well and she would receive prizes from the principal or headmaster at her school. And then her father would encourage her to paint. And she said, I remember when I used to live with my father and I hadn't committed any sins. And she said, I wish I could return to those days. And but I'm only, I'm going to, I'm not a painter. She said, I can draw very well. And I used to get the prizes for my drawings, but I'm not a painter, but I'm only painting this out of respect for you. And I'm from Gazvin, which is a city northwest of Tehran, about three hours by car. She said, and I am foreign. I'm very foreign to Tehran. It's a huge city. My dad doesn't want me anymore and I wish I could go back to the good old days. Incredible, incredible. Let's have one more and then let's take, then let's talk a little bit more and then let's come back to some artwork. Next slide, please. Oh, yes, okay. This is Marjon, 18-year-old. She didn't tell me what her mistake was and I didn't ask. She said, one mistake. She said, I'm painting a picture and a lot of them did this, a picture of my house, my room, my closet, my carpet on the floor, a clock on the wall and an antique mirror. And then, but on top of it, it's all the pain. All the dark areas, all the pain and sorrow that has filled my heart and the crows represent the bitterness of her life. And I don't know what happened with her husband. She said the separation from my husband and my imprisonment because I just committed one mistake and she said she's been there for six months and she was expecting. She didn't show, but she was expecting. Well, I guess if she's been there six months and she must have been showing, I just didn't notice it. Yeah. And how long are some of these girls in there for? Evina, is like six months the long? Yeah, yeah, it's a rehab, it's a turnover. You know, the center admits about 2,637 individuals per year, 447 around that amount are girls and then the rest, 2,190 are boys. On average, there are 250 boys and 60 girls in the center. The idea is, you know, they're there not to be there permanently. It's, they get treatment, they get seen by a social worker, by a psychologist, they're trained, they, as soon as they enter, they are given a medical exam and they are taught family planning as soon as they enter. Which is, you know, quite the thing when you think about it. And they're given a uniform and clothing and they're vaccinated if they haven't been vaccinated and then they are given an aptitude test and they're, you know, the center figure out what level they belong and they put them in the appropriate grade level. And then if they're exited before the school year ends, they're given a document stating how long and what level they have completed. So it is to, it's for them to really get better and put their habits behind, their bad habits behind and go back into society and try to make a living. But, you know, like Elojah, she came back three, four times. She came back three or four times? Oh, yeah. And then what, and yeah. Well, they, the center does the best they can and then they see, okay, there are some improvements and then they release her and it's not a permanent place. It's not a prison. But it sounds like a really amazing place. It sounds like a very, very helpful place. It is and UNICEF supports them. UNICEF organizes, you know, educational opportunities for the people who are working there. That's great. Training opportunities and all that. What about the girls themselves? Are they, do they get along together? Do they help one another? Are they like a family inside the rehabilitation? They are like a family. But they also had their little cliques and you have to realize, unlike in the movie, they did not, Sunless Shadows had girls there for long, long, long time. So they created these bonds. They had no choice, but have this little family linkage sort of. But these girls, no, it was really like a high school. And what, can you talk about the facilities cause you mentioned that it's, they're really big, but what is it like? What is it like inside for these girls? Is it somewhat like what we saw in the film or is it very different or? Well, it is, it is, it's a big compound and they're separated by different buildings and these buildings are not connected. There is, there's a swimming pool. There's the dormitories and the dining hall and the kitchen and nurses office like a high school and swimming pool and a lot of great facilities. When I was there, I could look over and there was a computer lab. So they have arts and crafts. They teach them traditional crafts of Iran. Things, things that are, that are, we do here also, our students in schools do, they, they had access to them there. Can you talk a little bit about your students here and your, and doing art here in the US? Well, I love my students, you know, it doesn't matter. I've taught, I've taught in for the last four, 26 years and I've taught in three, no, four different districts. I started in Cheshire, Connecticut and I went to Milford, Connecticut. And then I went to New Canaan, Connecticut. And for the last 16 years, I've been in Greenwich, Connecticut at the high school level, but I have taught K-12. I teach computer art. I teach AP, which is advanced placement art, studio art and computer art. And I teach drawing, painting, whenever necessary, sculpture, whenever necessary, printmaking. And I really enjoy it. We are seven art teachers and we have a lot of great abilities, the seven of us. It's a wonderful art program. I just love working with the kids. You know, they usually say, well, isn't it difficult working with teenagers? Yes, but any age has its advantages and it's disadvantages. It's just that when you get them to make something creative and they come up with that aha moment, it's just so fulfilling, you know, so. And as you were saying, it's not necessarily true that all these people are gonna become artists, but art, in a way, is such a vehicle. No, they're gonna be mathematicians or scientists or writers, but they're writing essays and doing science and studying science and learning about math. No, it's a different way of thinking and it has to be available in all schools. Otherwise, you will have a very sterile education because when you have the arts, and I'm not just talking of the visual arts, I'm talking about all the performing arts and the visual arts. If you have those in your school, then you are providing students with a complete education where the whole mind is working and learning, not just one part of it, you know? So, yeah. Go ahead. No, I'm just saying that if you cannot be creative in art classes and you don't allow students to express themselves the way they want to, then it's not really an art class. Well, it's a lot about understanding your process. I mean, it really, a lot of art is all about process and everything. What is your, do you have a favorite age group that you like to be with? You know, I love my high schoolers, they tell me the funniest things, you know? Like they said, oh, with your, you know what, Dr. Avalon, with your hair short, you look like you're in your 30s, with your hair long, you look like you're in your 40s. I said, well, it's a win-win either way. And they understand that, that joking back and forth, that humor, and they say to me, things like, well, how are the dinosaurs when you were our age? Things like that, and we laugh. And I have to tell you, one day, I was really, really in a, just in a bad mood. And I guess I was snapping. One of the boys turned around to me and said, what's the matter? I said, yes, you're right. And can I use the word? I said, I know I'm being a bitch, aren't I? And as I said that, the assistant principal walked in with one of the administrators and she said, oh, I want you to look at Shada's class. She really does wonderful stuff. I'm like, oops. And I said, okay, I'm going to get an email later on. They stayed, they, and you know, and I just went on doing my work with my students. And then sure enough, I did get an email. But she said, you have a great rapport with your students. She didn't mention anything about me using that word. To be honest with you, I was admitting that I was not being a nice person at that moment. And I apologized to my, you're right. I'm sorry, I'm being a bitch. And that was it. That's great. With younger kids, you can't do that. But then they are so excited. Like elementary students are so excited about their work. They're eager to share their ideas. They put their hand up. They want to talk about their artwork. So, you know, there's a trait. Can you, can you think of one particular thing that one of your students said to you here that you just, you'll never forget it about something they did or an aha moment or something they were thinking about or whatever? I can't use the language. Okay. Well, it comes to mind. I mean, you know, I don't know. I really, I cannot, I can't, I don't think I can mention the stuff. I mean, It's okay. It's okay. It's good. It's all good. I want to go back to, because you mentioned this when we talked before tonight. You mentioned how different it was when you were growing up in Iran. Well, I didn't grow up in Iran. I mean, when you were there. Right, exactly. But when you were there. I was a dip kid, which means diplomats kid. My father was a diplomat for the Shah and I was born in England and then we moved to Switzerland. We moved to Iran. Then we moved to Egypt. Then we moved back to Iran. Then we moved to Turkey. Then we moved to Iran. And then we moved to Spain. And then we moved to Iran. And then finally I went to the international school, which I loved. I mean, I've been through so many schools. My favorite was the Tehran International School. I made some of my best friends then. And to this day, we hang out together. And we, I mean, it's fantastic. Cause, you know, we're all outside of our mother country and we get together every now and then. And it sort of just rejuvenates us. So growing up in Iran, and then when I came to the United States, I went to Pratt Institute to study fine arts. And that was 1976. And then in 1978, things just changed. After that, when I went back to Iran, I had to, and to this day I have to, I have to abide by the Islamic government laws, which means that my hair has to be covered. I have to wear long sleeves, but you know, we do roll it up a little bit, sort of loose gown, a think of a doctor's robe over your clothing. And that is, that's how I had, that's being very liberal in the clothing, but then there are some who are very conservative and they just, you know, cover themselves up head to toe. And you were saying when you were in Iran, when you were there those various times, you were wearing mini skirts. You remember, I mean, 1972, we were wearing hot pants and tank tops and mini skirts and platform shoes and all those things. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. Do, you know, in the, in the back to your, back to your project, do girls have agency and some control over what happens to them? Or is their family kind of in control? Is the court kind of in control? Can you talk about, and can you talk about how someone, how a girl ends up being able to get out of the rehab? Exiting, yes. Exiting is based on meetings that the judge and the director of the center and the matron who supervises the girls and the social worker and the psychologist, they all sit down and meet and they talk and they move forward based on the results of their meeting. So they have meetings regularly and they go from there. And then when the girls are exited, they usually go back to their family. They go back to their family. And do you feel that, I mean, do they ever talk, I'm not trying to ask anything that you're not supposed to talk about, but do they feel when they go back, do they feel differently about themselves? I didn't get into that kind of conversation with them. You know, I just didn't want to overstep. It was the first time I was there. I didn't want the center to think that I was there to snoop around. I really was there just to conduct the art workshop and just bring a little bit of a creativity time for the girls. Sure, that's very appropriate. That's very appropriate. Do you have plans at some point to maybe go back and do this again? Oh yeah, you'd like to? Oh yeah, I mean, I have done, I have conducted free art workshops in villages and it's fantastic because when I go up, for example, to the Caspian Sea region, North of Tehran, the northern part of Iran, on the shore of the Caspian Sea, we, I go with a gentleman who is from that area and we sort of advertise locally word of mouth. And then we get about 120 people who come the next day and they know me by now. I haven't done it in a few years, but they would come and we would have kids as young as two years, kids who are hard of hearing, grandfather who's 88 years old and they would all, everybody would sit down and they would paint. And you know, it was fantastic. It's fulfilling to see people so eager to be creative, to make art and use materials. That's great. Now, so what was that like with them, with the 120 people or whatever? Do you give everybody a piece of paper? Are they doing something on the ground? Or what are they doing? Remember I'm a teacher. So I went, the first time I went there, we met the day before and I, there were relatives of this gentleman there and I said, okay, you were having a table there, you're distributing the pencils or paint, you're over there, you're distributing the paper, you're over there, the red paint is with you and the brushes and so on and the water and so on and so forth. And then I had to instill and enforce the cleanup because a lot of time the kids were getting, oh, it's just like my own students, I have to say, these are the rules. You put your stuff away, you just don't leave it there. And I had to do the same thing there. So, you know, it might be a very different culture, it might be halfway around the world, but these are universal things that adolescents will do, that young kids will do, it happens everywhere. What have you been doing this summer? Have you had students this summer? Have you been working remotely with people or together with people with COVID? No, I'm writing a book with a colleague on art and technology, you know, implementing technology, using technology as a means of expression in the art studio, in the art classroom. And we've been working steadily on that book. So, no, I haven't, I've done a few paintings, yes, but, and my mother is here, so she comes and sits there and she paints a lot. But no, I haven't worked with students because I have to tell you March, middle of March, when we went into distant learning, if I was up till midnight trying to figure things out, how to teach my students printmaking from a distance, putting together video demonstrations, it was, you know, it was just a lot of stress. It's a huge learning curve, isn't it? It is, yeah. What do you, when you were doing printmaking and things like that, how were you doing it? Were you developing, I mean, are you holding things up like this for everyone to see or what are you doing? Oh, because our school did not have students meet with the teacher during their regular class time. So they would just get on whenever and we had lessons and everything ready for them. What I did was I went to school and I created packages for my students and I put their names and addresses and phone numbers on them. So I had a braier and an ink plate and some inks, tubes of ink for each student. And I did the same thing for the painting students. So I was there two days putting these little packages together and I delivered them to the board of Ed and I emailed all the parents and I said, please go and pick these up. Most of them did. There are a few who didn't, but the majority did. So for those who did not pick up, I had a supplemental digital lesson. But for those who did pick them up, I would put together a video demonstration that they were going to do this and I had them get some styrofoam and carve through the styrofoam and roll the ink. You find if you're a creative person, which our teachers are, then you figure out a way to do things. That's fantastic. So how's everything going right now? We have it. Or what do you anticipate? What do you anticipate? Well, we're on a hybrid model right now and I don't think hybrid is a good model. So I hope that we still stay remote and do remote teaching because as long as it's a lot, I agree that it's a lot of work for many teachers, but we need to keep this under control, this virus under control and we can't risk people's lives. That's it. Yeah, yeah. Let's go back. Should we go back and look at a couple more of the fantastic pieces of art? Yeah. Okay. All right. So this is Mariam. And I have to tell you, the girls, first of all, I was really impressed by their handwriting. Their calligraphy was beautiful. And then quite a few of them included poetry and I don't know if they wrote the poetry themselves, the poems themselves or if they are existing poems. But this one has a out of wedlock relationship and I think her boyfriend was in the boys section. So, you know, she painted this picture. It's thinking, she's thinking of the boy and they're in each other's hearts. And then the poem written on the top right says, experiencing experience is a crime. I am content with my own disease, but death does not arrive. Very touching. Yeah. Very touching. Very touching. Yeah. And you're right, the calligraphy is so beautiful. If you're handwriting, their handwriting beautiful. Beautiful. 17 year old, no, 16 year old girl. Next one, please. And this is an Afghan girl. She's from Afghanistan. And hold on, let me just move this. This is a nozani, 17 years old. She said, I'm from Afghanistan and we came to Iran due to hardship in Afghanistan. And we thought we would be very welcome in Iran because we share the same language. We share the same religion and we're neighbors. And she said, and that's not the case we got into a conflict with a few, I guess, neighbors who were Iranians and we, instead of us going and filing a complaint against them, they filed a complaint against us. And because we are Afghanis and they're Iranians, they are, we're getting punished, you know? She said, you know, I don't know where her father is, but she said, I never feel like an orphan or I don't feel the absence of my father because my mother is such a, she plays both roles. Case in many instances, does the mother play both roles? Women are very strong in Iran, very, very, very strong, very strong, very educated. And unlike the outlook of the Western world on Iran and Iranian women, that they're prohibited from doing X, Y and Z, a lot of the students in colleges or majority of them are actually female and they are in the workforces also. It's not, it's not in a way like Saudi Arabia where women couldn't even drive. And it's a total, we have women bus drivers and truck drivers, you know? What, I'm curious, what are other common, common jobs for women? I mean, they do everything, correct? There's nothing that they do. Firefighters, everything. Right, exactly, exactly. I think that's a misconception in the US sometimes. Absolutely, and the, another one is that we have to cover our face and we don't, you know? Islam is a big religion. It's a, it's, there are so many Muslims in the world and it covers countries in the Americas, you know, people who are living in the Americas are Muslims, European people are Muslims, Asian, I mean Asian, the continent and African. So you go and Australia. So you have all these people who are Muslims and you can't think that all of them think and behave in the same way. They don't, you know? Yeah, absolutely. Oh, and then she said, poem, she wrote a poem on the top left on the peak of the mountain. She said, they say 80 days around the world. I will go around my mother 80 times. My mother is my world. It's beautiful. And you know, no matter what, these girls are young adolescents. They are, they are missing mom. They miss dad. They miss family. It's heartbreaking. But the center is doing what they can to reunite them. Can, can, can people visit? Are these worlds? Yes. Okay, so their mothers can come and visit, their fathers could come and visit, anyone could come, their boyfriends? No. Nope. It's there for, for having had out of wedlock relationship with their boyfriend. No, the boyfriend is probably next door in the other's place. No. Is it like, for example, in a maximum security prison, you're, you're, you have a particular place, you sit and it's very, it's very constrained, but here it's just like you're visiting someone in a room? Yes, there's a visiting hall. They go to the visiting hall. These girls are never handcuffed. They are never in chains. They're never guarded by a police or anything like that. Because they are not criminals. Whereas in the movie, you saw them being handcuffed, but they had committed crimes. So what is the word, what is the word for these girls? What is the, what is the word you would call them? In other words, they're not prisoners. What is the word? No, they're juvenile delinquents. Okay, okay. And how do you say that, how do you say that in Iranian? I don't know. I speak fluent Persian, but, but you're asking me, you're asking me. That's fine. I don't have an answer to that. All good. Listen, I am fluent in Persian. There are times when I am rushing in class and a student will ask me a question and I will answer in Persian and then I'll catch myself and I count in Persian. But right now I can't, I can't tell you what the word is. What's the difference between Farsi and Persian? It's the same thing. It's the same root. Farsi is actually Farsi. But because when Arabs conquered Iran, they couldn't pronounce, they don't have P in their language. So they said Farsi instead of Parsi. Persian is derived from Parsi. Okay. Very good. And it's a beautiful language. It's beautiful. It's a good language. I like it. Oh yeah, I like it. And you speak, so what languages of the four you speak English? I speak Persian and English and I speak Spanish, which comes in very handy when I'm teaching in Greenwich and I speak Turkish because we lived in Turkey. I used to speak Arabic because we lived in Egypt, but I forgot it. Got it, got it. Great, great. Well, now what are we looking at? What are we looking at? Okay, so this is, Bijan, can we have the next slide? This is Neta, a 17 year old runaway. She was, she was friends with Elahedah, the girl who was at the other circle. And this is Postor, the one who invented, discovered antibiotic or pasteurization, I should say. And this is Postor Square named after Postor. And she's wrote, Elahedah and I used to hang out over here and they met two guys and they were caught stealing and by the time she did this painting, she'd been there for three months. And she also pulled a knife on a police officer when she was getting arrested. So, you know, she's a toffee and she's a vandalism, public disruption. And it was her third time there. And she said she was there because this time she had broken into cars and she sleeps in the cars also. Now, if we could have the next slide, it will show you what the actual square looks like. That's what it is. We have a question, by the way, that just came up and maybe it's prompted by that last slide. It's, is life harder once these girls get out? It all depends. And they said, they went on, they said, given that many are rejected and not forgiven by their families. So, how does that, how does that work? Not many, not many. I mean, that's an assumption. It all depends on the family. If the family takes them back, no, if they decide not to go back to their family and they continue going and living in the streets, then it's the same routine over and over again. So it is hard for some, especially if they're rejected by their family, especially if they want to go to their families and they're rejected by the families. So, are they, but how do they get picked up or whatever? Does the family kind of squeal on them and then the police go and get them or does the, do the police just find them or how does it work? Yes, sometimes that's the case, especially if it's a girl who's become pregnant. So the family complains and files a complaint against the boy and the court gets involved. And sometimes the girls are runaways because of conditions, bad conditions in the home. And so, it's so many variations of things. Well, it was interesting seeing the role of girls and loving their mothers in the film and it sounds like it's very comparable here, very similar. Because I think the mothers are more forgiving than the fathers, that's the thing. The fathers become very macho, they have this macho attitude and very unforgiving. But there are more stories coming up if we can go to the next slide. All right, this is Parastu who was visibly pregnant. And after I started the lesson and gave them the theme and we had a talk and I motivated them, she said to me, can I paint whatever I want? And I said, of course, go ahead and paint whatever you want. So she did this beautiful painting. And I said, wow, this is amazing. Tell me a little bit about your painting. She said, this is what's inside of me. She said, it might not be interesting to you but this is my heart full of blood. And there's no, I have no hope for living. And she said, I know it's a valueless piece of art but I hope when people look at it, they understand what's going on. And then she wrote, this is all in the back on a piece of paper that I attached to the back. She said, they say paradise is spread under the feet of mothers. Mother, forgive me so that I may experience the beauty of motherhood and the feel of heaven. Incredible, yeah. And this girl, Parastu, as we were sitting there and talking, the matron came and called her and said, go get your stuff. Your brother has come to pick you up. So the parents took her home. May I ask you, do some of these girls, we had a wonderful question here. Do the girls suffer from depression? And also are there mental health issues and how are those dealt with? I don't know. I didn't see that, but I wasn't there long enough and I don't see how you could not suffer from depression. I just don't see that being possible. But as long as there is a psychologist and there is a social worker and the girls are open to seeking help, it can be worked through. But if they resist, there's nothing that can be done. Is it kind of similar to here where there is stigma about mental health? In other words, they're embarrassed about going for help or whatever? Yeah. Okay. Well, I don't know if it's because of stigma or they just feel they don't believe in it. I think it's more that than anything else. Okay, we can move on. This is typical adolescent. I just keep saying this because it is so important. This is universal. Like the theme of the eye, I get it so often with my students here in the United States, American teenagers. This eye, sort of like looking at the world is very common thing among young adults. Mother is written on the left side, I mean on the right side in black. It's the word mother. And this is Rorya, she's 16 years old. She's a street wanderer. Obviously she ran away. A lot of them have faith in God. And she said, I just want to ask God to help me. Next month is my birthday and I wish I could be home so that my mother could wish me happy birthday. And then she wrote a verse in the back. May he die, he who built prison walls for he placed all mothers in suspense. I mean, isn't that amazing? It's amazing, a 16 year old writing that, that's amazing. And the verse, if I could read it in Persian to you, the verse is just, and I think this is our last one. And you see, it rhymes, I mean, I translated word by word so that you could understand the meaning of it. But the way she wrote it and the rhythm of it, it's fantastic. That's beautiful, that's really beautiful. Well, and she was, she's 16 and she's on the street and she's on the street, she's on the street and she's on the street, she's on the street. She was, she's 16 and she's on the street. She's on the street, she's 16. And who else were you working with in this project inside the rehab? Well, a couple different people assisting or? Well, the contact, the lady who asked me to come and do this workshop goes to, was going, I should say, was going to the center every, once a week, every week with her daughter who was a teenager and her daughter would do volunteer work there, show the girls exercises and stuff. And then she asked me, I met her at one of the parties at a friend's house and she said, oh, yes, I've heard you're an art teacher, you know, very well-to-do Iranian lady. And I said, sure, so she was there and she helped me, the translation on the back, writing them, she helped write them. And so I had to do, they were wonderful. The 18 year old and her mother, they were fantastic helpers. That's great. I'm just curious, do you wanna talk anymore about some of the misconceptions that people in this country or other countries have about, well, I mean, you've lived so many different places, you've had such an amazing world experience. I mean, how do you compare and contrast all the different places you've lived? Well, I mean, the idea that, the thing that really bothers me is that Muslims and Iranians are terrorists. That's the one thing that I get a lot. And I used to have a student who had Tourette's syndrome and the poor kid, not his fault, but he would say, fucking terrorist bitch to me all the time. And then he would apologize. But you know, and I didn't bother me, I knew he had no control, he had Tourette's. But that's just a teenage boy with Tourette's. But there are people who think this way, you, it doesn't matter what religion, every religion has its very, very conservatives. And by God, we have them here in the United States dictating the ways of life to us, and you also have very progressive people no matter what the religion. One group does not represent everybody. Right, right. But it's interesting right now talking about or thinking about the role of freedom and thinking about the role of agency for everyone. It's just really, it's a very interesting, very complicated time. Right, it is, it's very hard. At the same time, we have to realize that we cannot impose our own ways of thinking and our own values on other cultures and other civilizations. Of course, you know, we can't sit aside and say, oh, they're killing everybody and that's okay. Well, no, that's not okay. But we have to look into a society, we have to understand the way of thinking, the way of life, it's no different than when missionaries came to the United States and converted all the Native Americans to Christianity. Well, why? I mean, they had their own religion, they had their own way of looking at life and creation. And what was wrong with that? So unfortunately, that is still present that we think based on our own values, we judge what other people are doing and all the societies are doing. Right, I think we need a more tolerant world in general, in general. I mean, to be honest with you, it's not tolerance because what is there to tolerate? This is human nature. This is every human being has contributed to the progress and development of mankind. Every society has done that. There is no such thing as we are better and you are better. Everybody has contributed in their own way. And we need to focus on that, we need to think about that. Instead of focus on differences. Oh, they're not doing things our way. Yeah, very well put. I'm just curious. Also the role of religion for these girls, we were talking about the role of mental health, if mental health is an issue, is kind of the idea that they have belief and they believe in God, they believe in their religion. Is that really an important aspect of what helps get them through? No, no, no, for some I'm sure it is, but for some it isn't. It's a range, you know, you have your girl who would pray, do her prayers and one who doesn't care. But it's still a Muslim and still believes in one God but doesn't say the prayers. It's like you can be a Christian and not go to church, or at least not go to church every Sunday, or not go to church at all. You may be as agnostic, whatever. Absolutely, then you had agnostics, of course. They're all there, just like amongst my own students. Right, right, right. Well, what else would you like, what else would you like our audience to know about either the things you're doing, your art, your art, the project that you did and what you're gonna do in the future, any ideas about, you know, I mean, life in general as well. Oh, let's get over this pandemic. That is on my mind because, you know, it's horrible to be teaching from a distance something as sensitive as art, something that is so sensory-based as art that you think you can do it through the computer and you can do it online. It's really, really impossible. And that is something that's on my mind now. But, you know, I have said more or less everything. I just hope that we can always look at the world from multiple perspectives and not think because I dress this way and the other person doesn't dress this way then they are in the wrong. Or because I pray this way to my God then you are praying you're wrong the way you are praying to your God or the beliefs that you have, you know. If you believe in God, if you believe in one God, it's one God up there and everybody's praying to that one God and that's that. And if you don't believe in God, you don't believe in God. If you're doubtful, you're doubtful, you know. I mean, I have to say when I was in Iran during the Cold War and you know, Soviet Union was our neighbor, miles and miles of border. And we used to see the news that the Soviet Union used to broadcast about United States and they would show the worst slums in the cities and the homeless and say, this is America and this is capitalist, right? So, and that's what we get over here. They show always when they show Muslims they're always conservative Muslims. But does anybody know I'm a Muslim? Does anybody know that there are Muslims who are very liberal and very modern and they've moved along with time and they've changed and evolved? So, we always look through multiple lenses of things. Absolutely, absolutely, that's beautifully put. May I ask you, what is your book gonna be called so that we can be sure to buy it? And also, because you're talking about COVID and you're talking about art and art making right now and the fact is that technology can't do everything. How are you going, what's your kind of thesis or idea for that, for your book? Well, it's called Art and Technology, Artistic Thinking Through New Media and I'm writing it with Dr. Cheryl Adler Ayozo who is an elementary art teacher in Greenwich, Connecticut. We have to, the publisher is Teachers College Press and we have to have it ready by the manuscript handed over by the end of October. And we're there, we have, we work on it every day and we have examples of many, many, many lessons that involve Photoshop and little bits which are technology parts, electronic parts that kids can build as cardboard sculpture and then connect these electronic parts together so that their cardboard sculpture can move or make a sound or radiate lights, things like that. So, that's our book in a nutshell. We do it with a twist on artistic development because there is no way a teacher can conduct a good art lesson without knowing about artistic development of students. If you don't know developmentally where the students are then how are you going to give a very organic, wholesome lesson to them? Then the lesson is meaningless. Great, great. Well, this has been fantastic. Is there anything else she'd like to say? Because I know you could, this is wonderful. We really appreciate your joining us at the virtual Bedford Playhouse. This was fantastic. It was really great. Thank you. And I hope you'll come back again. And also, for those of you in our audience who don't know, this is the mother. This is her most famous role. This is the mother of Bijan. So, fantastic, so Bijan, thank you. Bijan has an Iranian mother, an Irish American father and the Iranian mother insisted if they're getting Clark as their last name they're going to have a Persian first name. That's great, that's great. Thank you very much for having me. I enjoyed my time. I enjoyed introducing something about Iran to the supporters of the Bedford Playhouse. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much and all the best. And here's to, here's to peace. Peace, amen to that. Absolutely. Take care. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.