 Well, it's time for our first hot topic, and we have been joined by Mr. Kola Waloluwa-Dare, Deputy Director of CERA, CERA Updates, Social Economic Rights and Accountability Project, and they are opposing the life pensions for former governments like Muike Umahi in this administration. Good morning to you, Mr. Kola Waloluwa-Dare, good to have you join us. So I know that we have about eight former governors in this administration who are working with President Ballatino Buen, you know, as ministers, and we also have nothing less than 13 governors in the 10th Assembly. But talk to us about what you are doing right now with regards to this topic we are treating. I know you haven't gone to court yet. We know that you usually go to court, but at this point you are just threatening to go to court. You haven't gone to court. Give us the full gist of this matter as unfolded. Thank you very much. It started funny when you said that you know we are going to go to court in two months. We do not like to go to court, and I am sure that we have spoken about it on this platform before now. If the President eats the voice of reason, and ideas are the voice of the people, in that there is to the laws he had sworn to uphold, there will be no reason to go to court. You would go to court if the President does not obey the laws in this instance, and that is what would compare laws to going back on another project in prestidication. But the issues are very simple and clear. The President has appointed among the 40 close individuals, he has appointed to all the public office of ministers, has appointed about eight former governors as ministers. These are governors who are drawing pay, some of them who are drawing pay from their respective states under what is called pension laws for those states. And that will also mean that it would also be any pay as ministers. And so we need to understand clearly that the Constitution forbids this practice. This is not about morality. This is not about whether Sarah likes it or not. It is about the law. And which law am I referring to? That is the fifth schedule of the Constitution. Paragraph 2A is very clear that, and it speaks in essence that a public officer will not draw pay from that of all public office while he or she is also drawing pay. And that means reverberation allowances or whatnot from another public office. The law is very clear in this regard. And that is the Constitution. And in this instance, the definition of a public officer includes the president, includes ministers, includes governors, and deputy governors, and what have you. So clearly it is against the law. And the reason why we're written to the president is very simple. He is the one that appointed these former governors as ministers. So he has that left-right control over them to instruct them not to end pay as ministers while they are still adding pay for the pension law of the state. And you will recall that Sarah Paddow took over in 2019. And then in the face of her advocacy being the lawfulness, the legality of pension laws being paid by the state. But these are laws that are validly made as it were at the state level. But in this instance, the least the president can do is to instruct and ensure that those he has appointed as ministers stop collecting pension in yesterday's while they continue to end pay on the state as ministers. You would understand the context. In the face of great poverty, the rising cost of living, the funds that are hanging from the states as former governors and deputies would be put to better use for the benefit of Nigeria. And so the LTDL sector would give a very good way to use those funds, education. What about various infrastructure developments? We don't understand that. And that is why we're written to the president. If he does what is right in the interest of Nigerians, the lawyers want to uphold any constitutional work. Then there will be no reason to go to court. Well, thank you for making me clear to us that it is indeed a thing of the constitution. I didn't know. It's a good thing you're a lawyer. How is it that we are finding ourselves in a situation where we run a democracy and the laws of the land are not respected? It is unfortunate. It is one of those things that is happening. Fortunately, I do not think we have found ourselves. I think it is more of a matter of where we have brought ourselves. Since 1999, since this round of democracy, there has been a passive extent of growing disdain for the rule of law. It started as something as small as not disobeying the federal character. It has become a huge monster where public officers, depending on the nature of the influence of power that they have, disregard the laws of the land that we even cut documents and not spent. People do what they like. And these are public officers and public institutions that want people to obey their law. And that itself has created this problem that we found ourselves. The president, who is the chief, is the commander-in-chief of the armed forces. He's the head of Nigeria. He's supposed to have the best of legal advice. He has a natural agenda. He has the best of advice. He has to obey the provisions of the constitution and allow those that he has appointed to flagrant treaty disobeying the constitution. Well, the president said that he doesn't know the position of the law on this matter. And it's in the constitution. Everyone has access to the treaty and with it. And he can instruct these individuals from any disability. But this part is the least of our problems. We've had much more without problems that we've seen as an outcome of disobedience to rule of law. This is one of those instances. We have the national assembly like in Fortuna. We have more to tell people in the national assembly presently who have former governors than the governors. Who have enjoyed it from their respect for the pension laws. And again, behind the national assembly. Anything that goes around. A huge bit. It's not even about morality. It is clearly against the law. Okay. Let's just know how far so far. Have you had an interaction? How has the response of the presidency been to your request? Not at the privilege of having an interaction with the president. And you don't belong to his really party. And I don't think that we are holding that privilege. But that is not necessary perhaps. What is necessary is that the president gets the feedback from the people. From various sources. And that is why he has minister of special advisers who of course make sure that he's in form of distancing. And it's not really at. If the president can traverse the length and breadth of this country. While he was campaigning for office and making those promises. He was listening to the feedback from the people. Why would it be at for him to now hear back from the same people. As represented by Sarah. This is a big feeling. This demand is not in the trust of Sarah. It is the interest of over 200 million people in Nigeria. Who will benefit from the opportunity cost. For the use of these funds in their respective states. And so we expect him to listen to the voice of the president. Call it the voice of law. Call it the voice of the people too. You will not go wrong. And do work this right. But we will not add any kind of feedback. Not from the president. They won't know that the president has been delivered. And these again shows where citizens must play their own role. In this kind of conversations. It is not enough to have an opinion about it. It is very important that we voice our opinion. To make sure that we hold those public office accountable. Included the president. Don't forget. In the next three to four years. The president. Whether he wants to run for another term or not. Will have to get the feedback from the people. So that act of go putting people in public office to account. Starts from when they begin to campaign. When they win elections. All to the time they leave office. Included when they leave office. Because even when they leave office. We are still answerable to the intelligence. For what they did with power. That was confirmed of them. When they were holding that up. And that's when the intelligence must. Check this out. And continue to bring the much needed pressure. To be on the president. To do what's right. Particularly. The citizens of those states. Who will not add their government laws. Are pointed as ministers. And they are still trying to pay. Like I've mentioned. These funds could be put to bear. That use them will benefit. The most people in those states. The number of other school children continues to grow. There are health infrastructure. That are more and more in these states. And most of these states are even more in tension. For those who work for the state. For those who have worked for the state. For years. They can't even pay minimum wage. So it really doesn't stand to reason. And I hope that you understand this all. Under former president. Mohamed Buhari. About seven former governors. Were in his cabinet. And only recently. Did we hear. Former state governor. Who is in the Senate. When Daniel. Announcing that he no longer. Which is to collect the pension. So I imagine that those former governors. All were receiving the pensions. From the state. As well as. What they were enjoying. At the national level. And so here you are. Kicking against. And it's probably very important. Not probably. I think it's very important. That you. You brought this up. Because it's become a norm. For former governors. To become senators. I mean. Yes. Senators. And. And ministers. In the country. The national assembly has become like. Retirement heaven. For ex governors. So how. How far reaching. Do you see this. Move of yours. Do you see it. Probably. Putting a check. On this trend. Where. Former governors. Instead of retiring. I'm going. Back to their businesses. And doing other things. Go to the national assembly. Or become. Ministers. At the national level. I think. We need to understand this game. Sir. Is not against. Individuals who have held. Former public. Public offices. It has come from. That's become. Also. What not. For all the other public offices. It is. It is. They are right. As the genius. To contest. Or even. To be appointed. Or elected. To public offices. What is. Clearly. Is the law. Is. Any game. As former governors. And. By reason of attention laws. And. Continuing to. And. In those public offices. As members of the national assembly. And. Ministers. Or. Any public office. Because that is. Clearly. The intention of. To be. Of the people. Of the constitution. And that is what we need. To understand. We've seen. With an example set. For instance. By. The. Member of the House. Member of the House. Member of the House. And he did share the correspondence with. Which of course he also made public. Where he still has intention. Or. Or. Directives. To. To state government to stop any expansion. Which. Here's what it is. What that is not enough. Those funds he has. And. That don't need to be reformed. At least that's the right step. To the right direction. As we have. Members of the national assembly. Also. To that line. At least. At least. At least. For the next three to four years. When the old officers. Members of the national assembly. Or as ministers. There are states. Will be spared. The bottom. Of. Billions of there. And to put this in context. I've just mentioned. Two or three of the pension law. In some states. Incubus states. For instance. A former government. Is entitled to 300 million. Executive pension. Benefits. But he has gone. Is also entitled. To a 30 day. Trade travel expenses. Annually. To any country. Of his choice. Which is white. That also. Applied this. To the. To the. To the. To the deputy government. In India states. For instance. In the form of almost. All the. Entombed by salary. Salary of the equipment. Which is. Whatever the equipment and. Is on the former government. And include an official. In police only. To approaches of the police. And allowances for cooks. And stewards. And so. The. Those are just as subs. Of. Of the work and. I would like to mention. because we have a former minister who is now presently a minister. It is now that the Jigawa State is pensionable. The government is entitled to the same salary as the increment and two records have to be replaced every four years. Including a six bedroom apartment, a four-digit office, two personal assistants, not below written, and two drivers. All of these are the expense of the state. And these are not the full details of that. I have mentioned three states now, and we have more than 20 states who have these pension laws in here. So you can understand the dreams. The president cannot put you to death laws to tighten our belts as whose citizens to deal with these policies in the long term. And then we see Bobbi Bobbi's us wasting state funds. That's his proficiency at the highest level, at the highest level. It is just not sustainable. So it is not only a lawful. It is not only a moral, a common sense and logic. It is clearly not sustainable. Thank you so much, Mr. Kola Walelua-Dari, for your time. Time will not allow us to go further, but it is clear what you're after. You're not against them having any kind of political office. You are against the pensions, the exotic cars, the mansions and all the other things that the pension laws in their different states allows them. Of course, many Nigerians have kicked against some of these pension laws, but that doesn't matter for another day. Thank you for your time this morning and wishing you the best in your pursuit. Kola Walelua-Dari, Deputy Director Sarah.