 Live from San Juan, Puerto Rico, it's theCUBE. Covering Blockchain Unbound. Brought to you by Blockchain Industries. Okay, welcome back everyone. This is theCUBE exclusive coverage of Puerto Rico. Covering Blockchain Unbound's global conference where token economics meets the real world, global society, Blockchain decentralized applications, and of course, cryptocurrency all kind of coming together. You got investors, you got developers, you got billionaires and millionaires, and you got the capital markets all rolled up into one. My next guest is Andrew Perrell, founder and CEO of Convergence, entrepreneur visionary experience, entrepreneur, welcome to theCUBE. Thank you very much for having me. So you're doing some really radical thing. I'm radical progressive. I mean, radical sounds like radical, but it's awesome things. You're reimagining gaming. Correct. Got a great team of people who have seen that movie before, literally seen the entertainment side of gaming, the pro gaming side to the tactical gaming side. Take a minute to explain what you guys are doing. That's super fascinating. How it works in this new era. So we're reimagining the entire game space. When I say that, I'm talking to the consumer side that sell phones all the way through consoles and PCs, out to the out of home entertainment side, which is arcades, location based entertainment and full blown theme parks and marrying them all together with one backbone platform that allows all of the devices to interact with each other in the same game space. So you can be in a $300,000 simulator at Disneyland, working with guys on cell phones, against guys in their head mounted displays. Any of that, they all work together in one game space. So basically the world is the device. Every device on the network, IP connection or mobile is a player, console, screen. You're connecting them all together. Right, hence convergence. Right, we're giving every device in the ecosystem its proper place and its proper prestige. Because if you got a $5,000 gaming rig, you don't think a guy with a $800 cell phone should be at the exact same level. But maybe 10 of the cell phones could be an equal match to you. All right, take me through a use case of how you're going to converge this all together. I'll see you talk to some purists out there. I got a 4K monitor. I don't want the cell phone guy coming in here. He's got lag, I got all kinds of gaming issues. Does that go away? Has it all worked? Well, what we're having to do is contextual based interfaces. Meaning that your roles and responsibilities in the game space is dependent on the devices that you bring in. Like virtual reality is not just the head-mount display. It's all the new gear coming out with the tackle feedback, the body suits, the gloves, the boots, the treadmills, all of that. So all of that you can, you have, your roles and responsibilities in each game space is dependent on the device that you enter with. So I was at Sundance this year and I had a theme out, I did a panel that I put together called The New Creative. And if you look at all the new artists out there, they want to break down the elite gatekeepers, right? I mean, the VR and augmented reality, virtual reality and augmented reality world is colliding with film, filmmakers. You got YouTubers out there with a million, 10 million subscribers, built-in audiences. There's new technology coming out. So a lot of people are bringing storytelling, filmmaking, and it's just really in the early stages right now. You can't, you just see how people love characters, but you start to see the new kind of format. So does this play into your world? Because I can imagine that if you're thinking to be disruptive in the way you're thinking is, new games are going to emerge. So it's not thinking about the old games, thinking about potentially new games. How do you view that? I mean, that's something that you see. What's your reaction to that trend of this new, multifaceted VR, AR, you know. We see that everybody is going to get to play together across every device. The developers are going to get rewarded for creating content. People are going to be rewarded for creating things inside the games. And the players are going to get rewarded for doing all the top things and getting to the top levels of all the games. And we're going to reward them through our cryptocurrency. All right, so I need you to get your opinion on this. We're in Puerto Rico, obviously, the Swiss world is going to another level. Brock Pierce, his community, the blockchain community, they're coming to Puerto Rico, tax incentives, the governments here opening up their arms. But you're starting to see it go to the next level. In these early industries, you got the entrepreneurs and the promoters. The promoters promote the entrepreneurs and there's a lot of love going back and forth. But then they hit that threshold. The capital markets come in. You know, you start to see the opportunities that the money start flowing in. It's kind of happening now. So it's going to the next level. In your opinion, token economics, now that there's so much money flowing in, now that people see that it's blockchain's legit, now that people see that this is actually a new model. Not everybody, but majority of the people in the industry are all ready to nod on their heads. Okay, blockchain's got the potential. Token economics is a legit thing. It's disrupting capital structures. It's disrupting funding. How is it disrupting the gaming business? Can you share your opinion on that? People don't understand the overall impact. We didn't overall understand the overall impact. A lot of the investors coming in still don't fully understand the overall impact. And I was in a discussion the other day. I'd written some articles in Medium about token economics and about the virtuous circle of a token-based investment fund, meaning everything that it invests, all the fees, everything coming out of it is all based on a token inside of an ecosystem. We're about to head to GDC, Game Developers Conference. Just like Kevin Backus did for the Xbox, we're going out there to license and buy up all the content that we can through our tokens. Now the cool thing here, the thing that just makes the investment, the cash funds dead, is a dollar bill cannot change in value other than go down over time slightly. So we just say the dollar bill doesn't change in value. I was Kevin Backus back when the Xbox was coming out and I went and invested a million dollars in a hundred companies in crypto. Say the Xbox is crypto and you can only get to those games through the token, which is what we're doing. And I found Halo, which I know a hundred million people bought the Xbox just because of Halo. Then what that does for a cash fund is everybody pass each other on the back because you've got one game that's going to exit and that's kind of cool, but that's it. Doesn't affect the rest of the economy other than a nice network effect. Halo gets a hundred million users and the next guy might get five million of those or 10 million of those. That's a nice small impact. When you do it with crypto and you start out with a penny token that you put in a million dollars into a hundred companies and you find that Halo and it explodes, the penny token might go to 10 cents. So what you just did was you just 10xed what you invested in Halo. It's a futures contract on gaming. Well, kind of. I'm not going to talk to that point. I'm going to just talk about this example. Is you 10xed, you went from a million to 10 million into Halo, but you also did 10xed every single investment you just did. And you 10xed every person in that ecosystem that's involved in it, that's getting paid in it. Your suppliers, your publishers, your media. Everyone gets paid. Everybody gets 10xed because you found Halo. So that makes this whole ubiquitous ecosystem all involved with everybody else, meaning I get rewarded if you get rewarded. So everybody helps everybody else. That is exactly the model of token economics. It explodes because of that. It's so powerful. Well, this is interesting. The inefficiencies of the process that you pointed out the old way is eliminated by the new model. Hence the people who pick up the game are the participants who shorten that efficiencies. I had a guy the other day ask me, you're not asking for enough money with your ICO because you've got to go invest in all these companies. And I was like, you don't understand token economics. All I have to do is unlock the power of my token and invest with that. And I've already proven, we back in 2015, we proved that all the game companies or a lot of the game developers would take our token without it even having a second to do it. Well, I mean, you haven't even gone to a whole other dimension that you don't even have to go to now, but it's future is the role of consensus in these communities really also do the filtering at many levels. 100%. You know what Activision got there? Ask Hannah to them when they, you got the Reddit threads. All you got to do is look at the Reddit threads. You know, the whole gaming thing is no one wants to see games go corporate. Oh, exactly. Because they have to force a business model. 100%. This is a huge issue. People are losing their shirts. Oh, great creative studio. They sold out. Game's over. The audience flocks away. Why? Because they have no incentive. What we're doing, we actually, well, I agree 100%, but there's a lot of professional investors that don't. So we broke up some of our funds that we're investing into all these startups. We broke it up into 10 funds and we're going to turn it into a game. Because we're going to give one of the funds purely to our token holders and do a consensus model and let them vote on what they think we should, what should be on in our network. And they're going to go up against nine other investors in, to see, you know, I threw down the gauntlet. Whoever gets best wins the afterglosses. So are you raising money now or have you raised the token sale already? We're closing out our private presale and because of blockchain unbound, I doubt we'll actually hit the open market with the ICO. So people will have to go to our developers that we invest in and get the tokens through them somehow. So you've had good success, yeah? Yeah, yeah, it's been awesome. Blockchain unbound been a good success for you? Oh yeah, Brock Pierce is on board. He's been pushing behind us just since Cayman. Him and Crystal both fully supported us and we're having an awesome success. What's your advice to people out there scratching their heads? Andrew, give me the 101 on token economics. What's the bottom line? What do I need to know about? Where do I get started? What do I do? Once you get your token actually, say authenticated, realized everything's transparent and it gets on that secondary market, it's better to use that to invest in anything you need to invest in. Get everybody incentivized around your token, all your employees, all your vendors, everybody incentivized around that token. It's a thousand percent more powerful than a dollar because a dollar doesn't go up in value and your token can go up and down but it trends up and as soon as you find just one spark that blows up everybody, all boats rise equally, it's awesome. All right, Andrew Prell, CEO, reimagining gaming token economics is a disruptive force, there's math involved. Every company will need a chief economic officer. That'll be a new title. We'll be certainly seeing that out. Thanks for coming on theCUBE, appreciate it. I'm John Furrier, you're watching theCUBE. Exclusive coverage in Puerto Rico for Blockchain Unbound, part of our two-day wall-to-wall coverage. Thanks for watching, we'll be back with more after this short break.