 I want to thank everybody for coming. I am Sean Dietrich, but Anam, who is the presenter, is going to be giving this virtually. Unfortunately, she couldn't make it here in person today. So we still wanted to be able to have her present. So she's going to be presenting via Zoom. So if there are any questions, feel free to let her know. And I will do my best to sort of proxy those questions to her. So with that, I'm going to pass it over to you. Thanks, Sean. Hi, everyone. Good morning. Hope everyone are fine. I'm sorry. So I couldn't make it up due to some of the limitations and the short span of time. But glad that I got an opportunity to present it through the virtual. So here we go. The title itself, it says that. Build it right, right from the start. So the question here is like, it can be like any products or any websites, whatever we wanted to build. We would like to make sure that it's being built in the right format and right from the start. So as part of that right now, we are keep on hearing something like an accessibility. I would say like different able persons or the implements. So we wanted to ensure that whatever we are using as a normal person, we wanted to ensure that that's being common for all people around the world. So whatever the products which we are developing, let us ensure that we are doing it in the right way. Let us try to make it build it right, right from the start. So I'm just going to give a glance about the accessibility for all the products, how we can incorporate those things. So this is all about me and I'm Srinivasan, working as a senior quality of students engineer for Accelerant. And these are my social profiles, like Twitter, LinkedIn. So yes, we can keep connected after the sessions as well. For more queries, I would like to learn from everyone. And this is my second speaker experience. So earlier to this, I presented in Drupalcon Europe in Prague. Accelerant, so that we started with that thinking about a digital change maker. So in Accelerant, we started thinking about how we can ensure that we are doing it in a right way, how we can incorporate the things. So we are in the era of practicing all the best practices for the accessibility to be included. So this is my team all about. So a lot of more people are there. And I'm there in the second row from the last. So agenda for this is like, why does accessibility matters? And how do people with impairments use the web? Web content accessibility guidelines and accessibility considerations and the strategy how we need to consider. And role-based accessibility practices and the shift-left approach and the key takeaways. So these are a few things which is like, I'm blind. I can see very well. I find words difficult. I can't hear very well. But these are the accessibility issues which we are hearing as part of the syndromes, I would say. But apart from that, there are minor accessibility issues as well. For a person who is having a lot of injuries on the hand, they will not be able to use the hand for a while, more than an hour. So they will have some struggle in using the mouse. They will have some struggle in using the keyboards. In that case, how they are using the webs. Are we ensuring that the product which we are building is being able to use by them? This is how we have to consider when we build a product. So I'm not sure since I'm not there, so I'm just raising this question to everyone over there. So I have anyone heard about the global accessibility awareness day. There is a day celebrated for them as well. So is anyone is aware about this, Dave? It sounds like no. Right, okay. It's been celebrated in May, actually. And the May is the one in the one of the May month that has been celebrated as a global accessibility awareness day. And in last 2022, it's been celebrated. I guess it's in the 10th or 11th, as per my knowledge. It's been updated. And right now, so as part of the US, I mean, United States as well and the Europe, now they are strictly coming up with the legit loads to ensure that all the products has been developed with the accessibility care. So whatever the websites or the ATM machines or the traffic signals, everything which we are using, it should be accessible for all. So the web is for all or the products which we are using. The universe is having the combination of different people. Let us ensure that we are in building everything in that format. So these are the high level knowledges, which is like what are the timelines? So the United States of America is way far ahead. They are into the complete one right now. All the websites, I would say like it has been started with accessibility care, accessibility audits, and they are trying to incorporate accessibility issues. And the Europe is still chasing up with the date and they have set up the date July 25. And the UK government website is the one website which is having that accessibility issues has been taken care of. So as I told, what this should cover, it can be a website, it can be a smart phones, and a machine, et cetera. And I believe that recent phones which is coming up with the latest upgrades, having that voice over for the Android phones as well as for the iOS. So everyone is taking care of this from the start itself. Why does accessibility matters? So when we say that why does accessibility matters? So as a person, if I'm able to see all the things in the website, for example, there's a carousel, I know that how to move that carousel to the right or to the left. A person with a visual impairment will not be able to chase it out through the reader. So we need to ensure that whatever we are developing that should be usable for everyone. A person who is having the color impressions, have you heard about the Facebook scenario? So the Facebook CEO come up with a blue color. It's due to the reason like that he is having the color blindness with the blue. So that's a reason he ensured that the blue and with the white logo, so that it has been visible to the everyone who is having the color blindness of blue. So that is how we have to start thinking. And this is the reason the accessibility matters a lot and it should start from the design phase itself. When we start a product, when we design a product, when we design the Figma designs or when we are going for a UX designs, it is very important for a UX design to think in such a way like the product which we are developing, the colors or the fonts, the styles which we are using, should be accessible to each and every individual in the universe. So they should be able to, and it should be user friendly in that way. So the boats which we are seeing or the traffic lights which we are seeing, they are, they should be in such a way. So there is a traffic lights, then the color is then issued, then there is a voiceover has been given. So we need to ensure that accessibility has been matters so that we can cover most of the people, like 90% of the people with the visual impairments also should be able to use or the hearing impairments. They should be able to use the web as well. Now what do you need to know to make your website accessible to all? So these are the few things which we need to keep in mind when we are focusing on the accessibility for the product or for the web, I would say. So what are the web content accessibility guidelines? So there are three versions on that actually. So the one is version 2.0, the next one is 2.1, which is currently in progress, I mean, which is currently in use with all the websites, the standards. WCAG 2.2, we are expecting that to come in December 2022 and the draft version is already in progress with them. And that has been more focused with the cognitive impairments as I told like, it's not the severe impairments. The person who is not able to use the mouse for a while or the person is having the back injury, they are not able to use the keyboard for a while, how they can use, even that has been considered an accessibility issue. And why it is important, WCAG importance. So when we need to develop, we should have a set of rules to follow. We should know where to keep the standards and how to keep the standards to make it very common and uniform throughout the sites. That is where the WCAG comes into the picture and they have a lot of scenarios with the examples in their sites, which is explaining how that particular standard should be kept. So for example, there is a font which has not been readable for a person which is like a vision impairment very less. There should be a font version of around 26 pixel or 23 pixel. So there is a standard rules has been kept for them to follow this. So that is how the WCAG is coming to the picture. And how does it work They have the recommendations also given for the each environments. So we need to ensure that when we are developing the product, when we are developing the design phase, we need to ensure that are we considering these WCAG guidelines into the picture when we are developing it. So this is how one thing. So the build it right from the start, it starts with the requirements. So the requirements comes up with that accessibility issue should be taken care. The next phase is the design phase. So when the design starts, the UX designer should ensure that there is a WCAG content which is related to the fonts, styles and colors should be taken care even for the links hyperlinks. There are the cases like, which is like certain websites will have the download PDFs. So we need to ensure that even that has been taken care. There should be a voiceover or alternative text should be given for the user to pass that to download it if they are not able to see that. So that is how the entire website should be keep in mind while we are developing it. And we need to ensure that who's the internet audience. Yes. So while we are developing, we are just considering the person who's able to access it in all the way. We are not even considering the person who's having the visual impairments or the differently able persons. Let us ensure that we are keeping them as an internet audience and covering that entire part as part of the design. What are the differences between WCG 2.0, 2.1 and 2.2? So WCG 2.0 started with the basic changes to cover with the visual impairments, hearing impairments with the severe disabilities, I would say, differently able. But 2.1 come up with covering with the mobile versions which is the Android and the iOS. Now 2.2 is more significantly coming up with the ones as like cognitive impairments to cover that to more coverage in the mobile aspects as well. And also the links which I told like, there is a link to download the PDF, those things has been taken care in the WCG 2.2. In addition to the WCG 2.2 is having this one as like the carousel which is on the mobiles or the websites that there is some difficulties in accessing them for the differently able persons. So there is a standard policies coming in WCG 2.2 as well for those things. So where there is a complex functionality or the complex accessible content is there, then WCG 2.2 is trying to cover that standard as well for that. So I'm just jumping to the WCG 2.2 because 2.0, which is already, it's not in the diminished right now, but 2.1 is in progress which is with the website. And 2.2 we are focusing. So I just mentioned here around seven to eight standards which they are focusing the 2.2. So WCG 2.2 is like, first one is like accessible authentication. So when we say the accessible authentication is something like the user is having a short term memory loss. They are not able to remember the password. And trust me, being a normal person, even I completely forget the passwords at times. So I completely rely on the last bars or some other password tools to ensure that the password has been used for the site to log in. So that is how the accessible authentication comes into the picture. Next one is accessible authentication, no exceptions. So when we say that no exceptions is given as something like there is a capture which is required or something like which they wanted to go with the password directly put in, then they can go with the no exceptions option. The consistent help is like, now we are able to see that most of the sites when we just surf into the site right away, we are getting a chatbot at the bottom with the constant help. So that is how it comes into the picture. So consistent help, dragging movements. So when we say the dragging movements as something like dropdowns, or if you want to keep it some picture into the some other place. So the dragging movements by the mouse has been taken care in this. Next one is focus appearance. So focus appearance can be the radio buttons which needs to be selected or somewhere, for example, the capture which is asking us to select the particular focus. Those are considered the focus appearance. So this is how the focus not exact which is like enhanced to one. And the next one is the redundant entry. So when we say the redundant entry is like when we wanted to reenter the password or when we wanted to reenter the address. So the redundant entry is being taken care in the WCG 2.2. And the target size minimum. So when we say the target size minimum, it's for the font or it can be for any content block which is placed at the minimum or the footer level or the header and the site. So there should be a target size minimum so that it can be accessible for all the people. So that is how they are focusing on WCG 2.2. Now all these. So what made me to realize that I should start preparing on this is like I had an incident recently. So I would like to share with you everyone. So I went for an event which is like an art. It was like an art event. So the music and everything was there. So I saw the people was playing the drums who were like visually impaired and deaf. So they don't know what they are completely performing but they did really well. And at the end of that, I received a speech from priest stating that if you are considering that these people are part of the universe, don't show the sympathetic to them. Just ensure that they are getting more programs and they are earned from that. So they are not expecting the sympathy from our end. They are expecting the same rights, how we are accessing everything, the websites, the ATM machines and the mobiles in the same way they want to use everything. So that's the reason I ended up and thinking like that, okay, let us ensure that we are being part of this. So this incident make me to think like that, okay. So they are not expecting the sympathy. They are expecting us to be part of their life by helping them to earn or helping them to realize or leave with the whatever the opportunities we have in our world. So let us think it in that way. Now I have a question to all the website owners. So it's to the product owners, maybe I would say like, ask you ourselves, is your website allowing every user to accomplish the same thing? That is a question to ourselves whether we are doing it the right way. If not, this is the time for us to start thinking about it. And if not, think about who's your target audience and what devices those users may be using to find you. So for example, if it is a website, they may use the mobile, they may use the tab, they may use the desktops. Even nowadays they are using the smart TVs as well. So the smart televisions I would say. So whatever we are developing, let us ensure that we have these couple of questions answered ourselves before we start with the development for that website or for the product. Excuse me. Now the accessibility considerations and the strategy. So while we consider the accessibility, what are the strategy we should follow? What we need to keep it? These are the some points which I would like to share with you. Accessible designs. So as we discussed earlier throughout this last slide, when we are in the design review or when we are in the development phase, let us ensure that our designs are accessible. Let us get it reviewed by any of the accessible person. Just check with them. So is there any way we can do that that's well and good? So let us ensure that they're part of the design phase as well so that we can get the review feedback from them to cooperate in more manner. Instead of let us doing it, I would say like instead of ripple and repair, let us ensure that prevent and protect. That is the better way to do it. So that is how the accessible designs should be. And the input accessibility testing during the initial phase of development. How we can do that I'll show in the next slide. Unit and component is a testing. Accessibility audit and the testing phase. It can be for an existing site or it can be for a new development site as well. Reporting of issues along with the remediations. Generation of accessibility statements. Okay, so as I discussed the accessible designs as part of already the UX designs. The next one I was telling that there's something called input accessibility testing during initial phase. So how we can test the accessibility testing during the initial phase of the development. There is something called linter, axlinter which is given by the axdecu-dev tools. That is something like a New Relic code. So we used to check the code quality when we develop a product. The code quality standards are followed or not. We are having a tool for that. For example, the New Relic tool is the one of that. And it'll tell you how much the code quality is all about. Is it 95% or is it 98 something like that. In the same way, you have something called axlinter which is like an accessibility which can be part of the developer tool. Install this extension for the developers and they can just spot accessibility issues as the code starts. So it'll tell like ensure image elements have all negative text. So it'll start provoking the recommendations as well while they code it. This is how we can start from the initial phase itself. Build it right, right from the start. So this is the one thing which we can use as part of the development phase. So we have to just install the accessibility linker extensions. It checks for all A11Y issues. And the good option over here is like we do have an option to choose the WCG guidelines which one you need. As if right now it shows WCG 2.0 and 2.1. I hope the 2.2 will come into the picture soon. So you have an option to disable. So there are some cases like for example, certain websites will prefer that there should not be any header tags like H2 tags should be there. That has been a customized for that particular website. But as part of the accessibility or might be it might be showing that excuse me. It might be showing that it has been an accessibility issues. So in that case we can disable that A11Y rule considering that we are ignoring it voluntarily. So this is the one way for that. Now the unit testing component testing. So right now as part of the development or as part of the process, we are doing the unit testing development testing only to check the functional testing. So let us ensure that our developers are part of the unit testing. They are testing the accessibility issues as well. So that it can be covered most of the obvious scenarios in the unit testing itself. And the testing team can cover more negative scenarios in that perspective for accessibility. So we have to consider accessibility as part of the unit testing as well, which will help us to ensure that our product is having the accessibility guidelines incorporated from the development phase itself. So there are certain tools which can be, but this can be various from organizing to organizations from product to product. So for us it's like Cypress and JavaScript. I'm so sorry. And end-to-end testing framework. Now accessibility audit and strategy for testing. There are three types in that. So one is like fully automated. Another one is semi-automated. And third one is manual. So when you consider the accessibility audit, you have to segregate it in this way. Are we going with fully automated? Or are we going with semi-automated? Or are we going with manual? When I see the fully automated, still it does not mean that there is no manual impression at all. There are manual interventions, but there is limitations for that. So whatever which can be done by manual to a limit can be fully automated. That is how the fully automated means. So when you audit or when you start with accessibility, have the segregations and start selecting the tools based upon that. These are the strategies which we need to segregate. They're fully automated. So for something like, we have the development phase, Accelinter has been part of that. And for the testing phase, you wrote the test cases, which is like on the side press or any other tools. Excuse me. And any other tools. And once after that, the report will be generated. So it is something like starts from the Accelinter, which will give the code quality and the recommendations. Suppose that it is changed by the developer. Then for the testing, we will have the test script based upon the WCG 2.2 guidelines or 2.1 guidelines. And we will run the test cases and you will have the results published in this particular format, which is like past failed. So we can have this report to be mailed to us as well. The entire report will be mailed to the stakeholders as well. This is the fully automated one. But even if we do this fully automated, there are some other things which is left to test. I'll come into that later. So this is how the fully automated, which is like from the start and until we receive the report with the recommendations and with the issues, how much past and how much failed, that has been part of the fully automated. And there are different tools now coming into the picture. And as part of the Drupal, I guess now there is a model, which I said, I mean, which I saw recently, Editorial A11 wire is coming up. So I meant to explore it, but I saw that that is part of the accessibility testing as well. So we can try using that, but I haven't tested it so far, but I saw that recently the model has been added. So regarding the fully automated, when I see the reports being generated, this is how it looks like. So you can have the different format, different pages, the unique pages, and how it looks like. These are the issues reported, area allowed attribution, area our role missing, button name, color contrast, custom dialogues. So this we can have a separate reports like this in generated way, to the G sheet or to the mail format. So this is how the report will be generated when we use that tool. As part of the semi-automated, I would say like, so this is how the reports will be generated once we run that script when we have it. And these are the things which we need to consider. And it will be having a unique URLs when we give the unique URLs for the site, then it will be taken care from the unique URLs. Now the semi-automate. So semi-automated is the accessibility insights for the web. So there are something called semi-automated, I would say like a screen reader, wave tool. So those are something like we can incorporate with the semi-automated ones and acts dev tools. That is the ones semi-automated. So this APIs will help us to ensure that there's an end to end testing process. We can scan and everything with that assistive technologies as well. So they are having the automatically test accessibility designs as part of their existing automated UI. So this is the second strategy. So when I see the manual, we can completely rely on the screen readers or the assistive technologies, like a screen reader or a screen waiver and wave. Those are the ones and why is over with that? Those are the ones which is like assistive technologies we are using as part of the manual. And one thing which we need to focus on this is like, even if we test complete automate, fully automate, semi-automated, there are certain things which is left to test, I would say. So after you have completed the entire automation's interaction test design, still you will have the conformance levels to test. So we need to check what is there left to test. So that coverage as follows. We have to consider that in these three ways. One is site test, another one is page, another one is page state. So the site test maybe is something like it performed once per the applications. So the examples as like, for example, landing on one particular page to use that. So those things which is like it performs only once per application all the way. That is called site test. And the page test is something like, not for all the pages, maybe only for few pages. For example, is something like there are pages which you want to select for the radio buttons. It's not for common for all the pages. That is called the page test. And the page state test means like, it is very minute the granularity level of the state elements, I would say. So these are the things which is the site test is considered about. Consistency, session timed out. The session time not cannot happen for all the pages. It might be one of the pages or for the entire site. So and the consistency, this comes as part of the site test. And the page test, so the interruption on page load. So when there is a graphical user interface element, there is something like a blinking shining letters out there. So when you download the page or when you load the page, there might be an interruptions which is not showing in that right way. And that will not be readable in the right format. And the multiple ways to land on there. So multiple redirections and the orientations. So when I say the orientations, like we need to consider the desktop orientations and the mobile orientations and the tablet orientations. So when we design a product, we should be ensuring that we are considering the different devices as well for the orientation level. Now the page state test. So the page state test is something like these are the points which we need to consider. So the automatic behavior. So when we say the automatic behavior is something like automatic scroll down, the lazy load on the page, that is called the automatic behavior. And the page structure. So when we say the page structure is the header and the header tags like H1, H2, H3, those are considered as the page structures. Interactive elements. So there are certain interactive elements. When you hover on it, it'll have the red color and when you click on it, it'll, that those are considered as the interactive elements. And sensory characteristics, which is like a capture or something like, there is something called the characteristic which you have to particularly click on, those needs to be constant. When we say the forms, it can be the web forms or it can be like a signup forms or it can be like details to be filled in. So those we need to consider as part of the page state test. And the text resize, reflow and spacing. So when there are two paragraphs without any space in between, definitely we will not be able to identify that there is a break over there. So there should be proper paragraph spacing as well. So we should consider the spacing. And the text resize. So the WCG 2.2 is going to come up with the target minimum size. That text resize we need to consider. When I see the text resize, the person who is in the desktop may reduce the window browser to the resize. And during that time, we need to ensure that our text is also getting resized. So that is how it has to be taken care. And the status messages. So when we say the status messages is something like the alert messages at the top of the websites giving an alert or something like a news. So those are considered status messages. So we should be ensuring that that is in the readable format with the assistive technologies or with the accessibility tools as well. Alternatives for timed media. So our timed media is like we are seeing certain media will be there only for a few seconds and after that it will just be a text over there. So we need to consider that. And the tables, which we are doing it as part of the site already. Time limit shortcuts. So when we say the shortcut can be a hyperlink to download the PDFs or it can be just click on icon so that it will be redirected to a different page. Those are the things. And motions and gestures. So these needs to be considered as part of the page state test. When we are doing irrespective of fully automate or semi-automated, we need to consider these things as what left to test from our end. We need to ensure that whether we have covered this as part of the manual or semi-automated or fully automated. So we need to just ensure that these three is being taken care properly as part of the accessibility as well. Now the accessibility statements. So when we say the accessibility statements, I would say like let's assume you have at least tried to make your website accessible. You have done it from everything from your end but are we ensuring that that's been reachable to the people? So let us have some statements to them to make them realize that we are considering their request. So these are the few accessibility statements. Your accessibility statement can be like a good option for them to make trust on the site. And WCAG has given one particular link to generate accessibility statements. So a firm can give their details and it'll generate the accessibility statements automatically from their end which has been already reviewed by the communication heads as well. And that is the link which I have provided at the bottom, generator code. So accessibility statement generator tool is there. So every firm can rely on this and they can generate their own accessibility statement and incorporate as part of the footer or as part of the different site contactors form wherever it is required for the site. So a public policy which will keep them and I mean coming your site again and again. So integration of accessibility modules. So till now we were just looking into that whatever the accessibility models are there and how it can be or whatever the tools are there, how it can be incorporated from the start. Now as part of the Drupal, now there is a Drupal accessibility module is there already which is like an accessibility scanner which can be part, it can be installed as a module to your site and when you run through the cron it can be run through the cron as part of the job on the daily or when you run it manually it will run through the site and it will tell what are the issues with the remediation that is called the accessibility scanner. It's coming up right now. So you can schedule this cron it will detect the issues daily or weekly however you are basing upon this cron and we can get the issues reported as well and based upon that we can work which will help us to keep engaging our site with accessibility as well. So this is the one accessibility scanner module is there. Another one is like Editorial A11Y which I have not mentioned here because I just read it after that after I'm preparing this one. So there is another one called Editorial A11Y we can try exploring that one as well for the accessibility issues. So these are the examples of the screens which is like link title not found. The screen readers will either read the end title your less link or awkward silence will happen if we are not putting it in the right way. So we should have some alternative statement over there. So how long does an accessibility audit take? That is something like a really weird question. I would say like see something like how long will an accessibility audit take? It will not be possible for us to tell that until we do some glance on the side. It is similar to asking how much will my car repair cost when we go for an repair. So they will just tell us like we need to have a glance then probably we'll get back to you on that. So in the same way we have to consider the accessibility audit take as well. Now what are the test estimations? What are the things which we need to consider as part of the test estimations for accessibility? So when you're considering someone is approaching you to tell that okay I need some accessibility audit or I want the accessibility taken care from the first. These are the things which we need to consider as part of the test estimations I would say. So the types, when we say the types is something like how many types of applications are there and how many types are there, how many URLs, how many unique URLs are there that we need to consider. Number of pages that is out. And when I say the types is something like we need to consider different tools for iOS and for something like screen wave which one we are considering screen reader. So we need to consider the types as well and the types of apps applications. Number of pages which is like a unique URLs for the entire site. We will not be able to test the entire 25,000 pages on a site. Instead of that we have to find out the probability the permutations and combinations for those 25,000 and drill down it to around 100 or 200 maybe I would say like. And the OS, OS is something like as I told iOS and Android and it can be like for example Windows. So we need to consider how many OS which needs to be. Number of browsers which you are going to test. This is something like a Safari or Chrome or Firefox. Those we need to consider as part of the test estimation. Number of devices. So when I say the devices it's something like there are different devices. For example, iPhone 14 would have come up with more accessibility scenarios but whereas iPhone 6 wouldn't be. So we need to ensure that but the people who are using the iPhone 6 also should be able to use our products. So we need to consider the number of devices as well. Number of OS versions, how much we are going to consider and base value for the one page. So after considering all these types you will have one base value for one page. So for example, five hours for one page for all these three tests then it can be multiplied with the number of types, number of type apps. So these are the test estimations part of that we need to consider. Now, four ways to improve your web accessibility audits. So these are the four ways which we can have a thumb pro like when testing a web content for accessibility don't rely on a single tool. We can try with multiple tools. Keep the what, how and why in focus. So what is the issue? How it can be rectified or why it cannot be or why it can be rectified in such a way that it can be used for. Make sure your entire team is involved in the effort. So when I say that make sure your entire team is involved in the effort. It would be really good if we can incorporate and differently able person as well. That would be better. That would give us more focused on the issues which we are focusing and as part of the UAT as well. Stay focused on goals and achievements, not the mistakes. So accessibility issues are very minor and very granularity level. So instead of the mistakes, it would be really good if we are focused on the goals and achievements so that we can achieve more. So these are the four ways to improve the accessibility audits when we are doing it from the start or if we are doing it as part of the audit as well. So this is how. So these are the few experience which we are doing in as part of the accessibility culture in excellent we are doing it right now. Still we are in progress with a lot of research on the same. But now we have a separate team who is handling the accessibility testing. We have the accessibility testing being taken care. There's separate audit team and there is a separate tools for that to rely on that. So we are trying to create digital accessibility culture at Accelerant and still we are in the progress of that. And this is my team and this is all about build it right from the start. Thank you and I'm giving over to you. Yeah, any questions? All right, it looks like there are no questions. All right, okay. That's great. Okay, then I think we are good to wind up. Okay, well thank you. And what we'll do is we're gonna take this. We've recorded it so we'll be putting it up in probably a week or so. I'll let you know. And thank you again for being able to present virtually and be here. I know that it was not easy but I appreciate it. Yeah.