 So, in this particular session, we're diving into an interview that looks at the music industry and if there are money in it, so we're going to look at the business aspect of it as well. So, in the studio I'm joined by Damon Shunet, I'm so sure this space is not new to all of you, a couple of you I guess, from the Shunet Forever. Yes. Teri Bhutana. Thank you so much for having me, I'm excited to be here as Auntie Sana. Yes, so shout out to the people back at home. Yes, my wife and my babies, Raina and Raina, who are one by the way. Yes, I've been a father for… Following on YouTube. Ah, it's by the grace of God. Okay. Na ilay numetumiasa, numetukoktuan biyapa, yundi yulitumi amstadi kupatia grace. Gadi yon by the grace. Grace confirm, your wife. We thank God for your media. Uh-huh, so the reason why we're here, Damon, it's because of your music. Mm-hmm. So tell us, when did you start doing music? Well, I started music when I was pretty young. Well, I started, every artist started music when they were in Trimari school, I believe. Like, that's what I want to think. And then you're trying to find yourself and discover yourself. But I actually recorded my first mixtape or recording. I did an album of 21 songs, nilihit konyumbe tupeke. When I was in high school, that was, yeah, a while back. And then after that, I went back to school and then I went back to school and got a job like that. And then now in 2019 is when I decided to, like, now do a major comeback. I learned that I was in a CD. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Produced by Kuchurinda Naio. Yeah, I learned that my master was in a CD animation. Yeah, in those days. Yeah, imagine. And it was interesting to look at, like it's very interesting to look at my journey and how I've evolved and how I've grown. Yeah. So what particular point did you decide that you're going to get into this? Like, because I believe there's that particular time whereby you're doing it for passion. And there's that particular by like, you know what, I'm investing in this and I'm looking forward to get my returns, absolutely. Yeah, it's actually very interesting because you know music like any other business is there has to be, you know, returns on investment or something like that. But I want to say this, that the way our industry is set up as a Kenyan artist, especially even as a gospel artist, in Kenya, first of all, like we have not been taught how to appreciate music as an art and as a product. So what we were taught is when I got into the music industry, this is how it used to work. You want to perform. You come to our concert, we will give you a platform. And that platform is helping you, not us. Exposure. Yeah, so someone else would charge at the gate, but I would be so happy to get an opportunity to perform at a government in five, five minutes, I'm at two minutes. You feel like you've already achieved because... You're there for the passion. You have to understand. You love what you do. That's now the trick because they know you have a passion for it. And then there's someone else who looks at it and says, I can be able to capitalize on this because they don't have the knowledge. You know, knowledge is very key. And that's why the Bible says that my people perish because of lack of knowledge. So looking back at our industry and the way it has been is that you, as an artist, you're being helped. You go for an interview, we are helping you. You go to a radio presenter, if they want to play your music or you want them to play your music, we are helping you. And so the way our industry was set up, it was set up against the Kenyan artist. So what they did was they would play international music so that if you want to get on that platform, they say, we already have Chris Brown, we already have these other people, so we don't need you, you need us. So why don't you pay us so that we can play your music? And that is how the industry has been. Number two, the number one source of revenue for all artists globally is royalties. Like when an international artist releases their music, they know that the biggest, where they're getting the biggest share of their money is from royalties. Now look at our Kenyan... But our story is different. Yeah, look at our Kenyan industry. How do you collect 200 million and then you say you used 80% of that money as a running budget for the office and then you pay artists with 20% like it doesn't make sense. And I feel it's the problem that we have as a nation. You know the corruption issue, so it creeps in. So we have royalties at the top and then after royalties you have now things like concerts. Now in abroad how they do it is an artist would come up with their own concert. People pay for tickets and that's what they call tours. So as an artist they have an album, I want to go on a tour. So I am not involving any other than the party, it is me who is running it. So I'm investing in the concert, this is the product. The product is the entertainment me. Is it the same scenario situation back here? You cannot create your own event, concert. Now that is where we are headed and that's where I'm headed and that is the direction that I took. But I just wanted to paint first of all the scenario that we are in as artists. So we have to wait for a certain promoter to plan a show and then you go and join in a show. You get that's how your fans will get to see you because we are afraid of investing in it because we are afraid that we are not going to get returns because from the very beginning we were placed in this position of fear that you are not making money out of your music, your product is not good enough, your product is not so good. We are helping you, you see you are the one who is in need as we are helping you by pushing your product, by playing your song we are helping you but what they don't tell you is they need you because without you that promoter would not have that quality. Very true, very true. So now I feel like the direction that I have chosen to go and I believe I am doing this because of the next generation because you see now I am a father now. I think I have to rub it in on your face as I am a father now. With amazing actually twins. Yeah twins, rain and rain now. Okay so let's look at it. I like the way you have brought it up because now you are changing the perception because now artists were waiting just for events so someone just comes up with events now we get invited to perform and everything else. Now being in a position to just shift that mindset and being in a position where you are looking at it as a business and you will be like I am going to start off a concert and I am spearheading the whole thing and also invading other guests which is quite interesting. Yeah I am very interested. So how does the music business work just in details? In general how it works is what I was telling you before. So there are two models to an artist. There is an artist who is under a label who is being managed and there is an independent artist who decides I don't need any other person to come into my art and my music I am going to do it by myself. Now there are advantages and disadvantages to each and every side. Now this is how I will break it down. So you have an artist this is how the business works. The product is the artist, the brand. The music. You get the music, the videos how you present yourself your form of entertainment. The artist is the brand. He is the product that we are trying to sell. Like this is the conversation that we had with my management team. Damon is a brand that we are pushing all of us. So my management team we are three of us. So we said this is the brand that we are pushing. Including myself I am pushing that product because it is a product we are trying to sell. So how do you translate that product into income? So I did an album called growing very recently and I decided that you know what I am not going to do it like everyone else has done it before because I've done music before like there is so much I've done music I've put them on all these platforms that people advertise you put it on this so that people can get it as the ring back tone but what they don't tell you in fine print is that in the contract you would find that they have written they take 70% you take 70% and then you take they take 30% but what they don't tell you is you are taking 70% out of like the company that is providing the platform takes 70% of the majority share like if your music is the product your music sells a million shillings the mother company that provides the platform will take 700,000 so you are dividing you are taking 70% of 300,000 which you are dividing with another party which is in the middle so what I decided is I want to eliminate that parties from my music so I am not going to put it on any other platform I am not going to give it to anybody else I am going to sell it I am going to sell the music directly so what I did is the album is out it's on my platform my own website I have the link so if you want the album send me 1000 shillings and I will send you the link and can you believe that within the first month after the album was released they had made 200,000 shillings when was this? yeah it was recently was it September I think last year? yeah September last year during COVID 2020 yeah all right that brings another question yes is this a perception that which I think a part of it is quite true during this time of COVID-19 someone will be thinking am I going to spend like a thousand and just probably buy an album or go for a virtual concert or am I just going to think about you know basic needs my food on the table yeah so what would you say on that this is what I would say that you know we are human beings we are social we are social beings that is how we are created to be and just as as I want to believe that the same way you need food for your stomach is the same way you need music for your soul like that is how I look at it like how would we be without music like so now how do you position yourself in this current time to be able to meet the needs that this person's soul needs because that is how you have to look at it so that people can see because it's value that is needed during COVID-19 people are depressed so now we need to make music that uplifts their spirit that becomes a product that you can sell during COVID-19 so virtual concerts they are legit they can actually have they can actually happen and that is what we are trying to do right now so yeah we are doing a virtual concert called growing pains because growing up is hard to do to be honest like it's hard and then the platform is called show for me the album will be streaming live on a platform called show for me and we are charging $5 per ticket so you can just pay $5 and then you you can pay using your card using M-Pesa for wherever you will be you can be able to stream and watch the concert now the concert is not just a music concert because I am a minister as well so you know your soul is going to be fed your spirit is going to be fed and then you're going to be uplifted so during COVID-19 is when you need this concert so you are marketing yourself we will be like you are going to get value for your money buy the tickets I'm telling you yeah you have to get value for your money and that's how I've done my music like if you listen to my music it is not conventional gospel music that everyone else is making my music is not music that you would okay some of them you would hear them on radio but some of them are not songs to be played on radio they're just songs that can minister to you that can talk to you you know yeah so how much have you invested in your music music audio production video since not even when you started let's look at the album just the album hey the album what it's a lot it's a lot it would be somewhere between half a million and a million shillings but what I want to say is that I am grateful because at this particular time I can be able to see that there is a return on the investment that I made and I wish other artists could replicate the model that I'm using because it is a model that eliminates fear stop being afraid what is that model tell us what is that model the model is just eliminating fear first of all model says that we have not given you the spirit of timidity again to fear sorry I'm preaching on you issue but of soundness and over sound mind you get what I'm saying so what what what I did is I have a product this is the album you want it you pay for it it is not free because for a very long time artists have been begging people to listen to their music so I release a song then I come to your WhatsApp and ask you please can you go and watch and support me please can you go and watch and it's free so because of that people have devalued Kenyan content and Kenyan music so what I decided is I'm going to put value on my music because I know what I've invested in it and I know what I put in it in terms of art so if you want my music pay for it when I did my concert I did a concert during covid by the way and the tickets are going for 2000 shillings and the concert was sold out but I was willing to risk investing in that concert because everyone was being paid everyone was under payroll because it is it is my product so if I make a profit out of it I make a profit if I make a loss I make a loss because that is what business is you have a product you have people a market that needs that product so how do you make this market pay for the product so that you can get your share all right I would like you to speak to us about the perception because we have so many talented young people out here and when you think about getting into music they want to get into you know all hands through which is okay 100% but also they have to be realistic to the aspect that it's a form of investment like any other business you have to invest so do you have any other source of income or source of a living whereby you retrieve that to just invest here and how important is it not to just was that enough not to rely on music 100% ah definitely that's a very very good question and it's very important for people to know how the reality looks like when I was in high school I used to think yo if I release a tape he use the times he will go get a CD if I get a CD with 10 songs and then it plays on radio I'll be going for concert for 5000 shillings if I get four concerts in one month that is 20,000 shillings so if I get 20,000 I can do a video if I do a video I'll be played on tv if I'm played on tv I will my value will go up so I'll charge 10,000 for a concert nothing was just playing in your head yeah in your head you know that's that's how poor people make think about man you think that you know what I'm going to get that 10,000 if I get two shows per week that is 20,000 20,000 20,000 in a month that is 80,000 shillings why should I even be in school koi sa wupi wu me piga nini ya luku misigepia ya yem baku me lipa director baku me lipa kila then you get on the ground and you realize that it doesn't work like that quite different like it costs money to invest in a brand that people will recognize because first of all like there is a lot of money that goes that is not seen like you cannot account for it money that you pay your stylist you pay your directors you pay your management team you pay so you have to when you get into music this is what I would tell you because our industry currently does not have the capacity to be able to feed an upcoming artist 100% first of all diversify get a second source of income in my case I am doing construction so I sell paving blocks you know cabro those paving blocks if you want cabro come to me yeah paving blocks you know that is what I sell so now I'm in a position where when I'm doing my concert I'm not doing it from a point of begging I'm doing it from a point of I have overflow so I can be able to pay for the concert if I make a a plus out of it well and good so I think everyone else should be able to do that I'm a lawyer as well so many things I'm sold I'm laughing because we are not missing an opportunity to sell us so I'm hoping I can be a lawyer and do construction yeah if you want cabro come to me I am your cabro person color cabro paving block everything is everything everything everything so how important is it for someone who wants to get in the music scene or even someone is already in the music scene to stop looking at them themselves as just like a one person one person movement and just have an entire team the same way as an organization would actually go for I mean it talks about marketing promotion you know looking at the finance aspect of it how important is that it's very very important because first of all you have to understand that you're not self sufficient you're not all knowing you're not God and as people we need people and by the way most artists are talented as musicians but you have a voice you don't have you don't have good writing skills so you need a writer you need a person to manage your time to manage how you're doing things you need another person to you know like there's a lot that goes into coming up with a product and I think the mentality that someone should have is look at your music as a whole company as a business because that is what it is and then you get a team behind you that believes in the vision that you have and you work with it but I would discourage people from the mentality of getting signed because most young people are falling into that trap of may want to get signed so now you go and you are signed they give you a million shillings and they tell you we are signing you for a million shillings you get excited because you've never seen that kind of money so now I have one million shillings but what they don't tell you is they've given you that one million shillings as a down payment like they have to make their money back so your music how you make your music how you perform wherever you will go they will have to make their money back do you feel like also sorry for cutting you short do you feel that when you're in the same situation whereby they have to make their money back do you feel like they will put on pressure on you to release a hit song release the next one just for them to just gain their money back and how does that affect the artist probably because of a lot of issues about mental health depression because you want another hit song because I thank God because they think I'm the best person to talk about this because I'm a lawyer as well so I understand how contract flow so in contract when they tell you that you're signing under them is you're signing a contract I don't know if you've had this notion of people saying that you sold your soul it's actually when you sign a contract there are clauses that say you're signing away your rights as an artist so you as an artist you're being managed by those people so they will pick what songs you're going to sing they will decide when those songs are coming out they will decide how the video is going to look like whether you like it or you don't you're a product to them they are the people who are managing you so that is what they talk about so you find that the song that you wanted to put out is not what they are putting out because under the contract they choose the song to put out you find that the way they brand you in the media or on social media is not how you would want to be branded but you signed a contract and they have to make their money back so you have to pay for everything that for that money that you were given you will have to pay for it yeah so I think that depression in how people are getting lost it's because you had this vision in this picture of how your music and then you trusted it to the wrong people so you gave other people to tell you how your music was going to be now when that dream is not realized of course you get frustrated because you have a big name and this is the problem with the Kenyan industry you have artists who have who have big names but they don't have anything I'm telling you I can tell you artists who you think are celebrities and they made it but when you when you go to out of 500 yatakula someone doesn't have because there are these that parties that are taking all the money these copyright societies that are taking all the money so now the artist has a big name but has not have an income so how does that person remain sane you're going to you you're going to lose your mind and I feel like it's high time the government actually looks into this like properly so that you make sure that as an artist you you get that but if the system doesn't work for you follow me let's go around the system let's just build our own system so to build your system yeah a couple of platforms that you used to you know put out your music and also sell your work your product so for now just go to my instagram it's damon.kenya all my information is there damon.kenya that is where I'm selling the album from that is where you will get the tickets for the concert here everything that you need from me you will get it on instagram damon.kenya okay so and let's look at how can people find you on social media and if they want to keep this conversation going and if they you know also the event don't forget the event yes so the concert will be streaming on this friday this friday the 16th of is it imprio the 16th of it will be streaming they will be streaming this friday at exactly 8 pm at night so all you need to do is go to my instagram damon.kenya there is a link on my bio to show for me where you can be able to buy the tickets thank you so much all right thank you very much damon for creating time to be with us so make sure you say hi to grace I will and also we are waiting for the next nini the next video will be coming out on our youtube channel this coming week so guys make sure you follow up with damon across all the social media handles to get you updated on what he he is up to when he comes to mataspatining his music I try to pay for channel as you can find us across all our social media handles you have come to the end of the show make sure you create time next Tuesday 7 till 10 am at michela shire so you can find me across all my social at underscore mutete that's where you can find faith across all our social media handles until next Tuesday enjoy the rest of your day and take care and be safe