 Hi, welcome to Yifan and Creative Zone. So my guest today, I have another star creative who's done work, not just on ads, but also has a very interesting background because he's done, he's written scripts for feature films, for web CDs or TV shows. We're pleased to have with us today, Aalav Desai, the national creative director of Mankind movement in India. How have you been holding up? It's all good. It's difficult. This lockdown has kind of like throttled the creative business a bit, but we are adapting to it, calls, and we are getting used to brainstorming on calls, we are getting used to thinking, presenting better. Initially there were a lot of problems when we were making presentations for ideas and everything, but now we are kind of getting out of that. I think they were just teething issues because we are not used to working from home. So we are getting around it. That's nice. So on similar lines, I want to first speak to you about how it is as creative, creating and shooting amidst remote captivity. Okay, so the biggest challenge right now that we are kind of facing is that we're used to, as creatives in an ad agency, we are used to sitting in a room, bouncing off ideas using each other as bouncing boards and then coming up with an idea. We've kind of gotten over that. Now we're kind of doing it over calls and we're kind of finding our space in there. As far as shooting is concerned, it's a little difficult, obviously honestly, because if you're on set, you're there, you can interact with the director. He's sitting right next to you or there are actors and everything. Right now, we are doing it remotely through live feeds, through Google needs, through teams. I've done one through teams also. So yeah, it's, see, we have to get ideas out. We have to, the ads need to be out for the people to realize that there is something up or there's a brand that connects with this kind of a thing. So the work will anyways happen. We will find a way around it. Are we doing it more efficiently? We're getting around it, but I would say that the physical presence at shoots was always better. There is a limited perspective to what a computer screen can tell me as far as a shoot is concerned. But when it comes to sitting at the shoot itself, there is a much more interactivity, there's much more involvement as far as those are concerned. But nevertheless, we are getting stuff out. We, everyone, I'm talking about the industry, everyone is kind of getting stuff out. Initially, I think there was this whole trend of how you could make out that these films were shot during the lockdown, right? They were fixed accesses, right? Now we have kind of evolved beyond that also. A few films that have been shot remotely also seem like they were shot as in before the COVID. So in my opinion, there is a world before COVID and there is a world after COVID. So this is a before COVID, don't really make out is this, it was the creative or was the client or was the director at shoot or not. I've actually done one where even the director wasn't on the set. He was also looking at it through a live feed. The AD was also looking at it from a live feed. So we're finding places, okay? We'll find it out, we'll figure it out. That's not a real problem. One more thing that has happened is, because shooting was halted or something for a really long time, we've started moving towards animation. Animation and animated films have kind of increased in the past because you can do that remotely. Anyways, you were doing it remotely. You can get on a call, tell them that this is the texture I like or this is the way that it should flow and it just happens on the system when it comes out. So the brands that can move on to animation films have moved. The ones that were still in the real, always in the real space, like Vodafone, for example, they did the Zuzus, but that's the maximum animation that they've gone through. They always have those, the pub following or there's a grandfather checking the phone out. Those kind of brands can't really move into animation so fast, but things like brands like MTV that we used to handle really long back, they can. So they are doing stuff which is animated. So that is how making films right now is. Right. So people also tell me that this whole virtual way of working has changed a lot of things. So in the sense that you end up calling people only for work and all that. And that just changed because there's something like team chemistry, which is a very, very essential aspect for the agency world and all that. So what is your take on that? So as far as a creative or as an agency is concerned, it is so... I mean, just to interrupt you, just to interrupt you, they say that it's making relationships even more transactional now. Yes, yes. So what is your take on that? That's what actually, that's what I was also going to say. So as an agency, we are under a lot of stress, we are a lot of their timelines, we are working late, and that happens a lot. I personally feel that anyone in an agency is because they love the business, the amount of hours or the amount of stress that we take can, we cannot be paid enough for it ever. Anyone cannot be paid enough for the amount of work and the stress and the timings that we put in. So you are in there because you love it. And that love, a big part of that love comes because of the people that are around you. So more or less the culture of an agency, the culture is something that you build when you're sitting next to each other, or you're going down for a smoke break or you're probably having lunch together. It's the non-work things that actually drive us to do the work things better. Now the biggest challenge as you rightly put is that it's all become transactional. I used to go to office at say 9.30 in the morning and come back around 8.30 in the night. During those hours I was spending one hour, I was having a one hour lunch or a 40 minute lunch with my creative team, right? Someone from the team used to go okay and we used to have lunch and all that. Now those conversations I get, I used to kind of understand what is going on in their lives or does someone else like chicken biryani or mutton biryani more? Which one do they like? Those kind of relationships. Now we are now on calls so much that I have never called anyone out of work or my creative team out of work and said, what did you have for lunch? We don't do that anymore. We don't have the space for that anymore because all we're doing is talking on say, names or phones or gone calls or everything all the time. At the end of the day you're just so tired that you don't want to talk on the phone anymore and have some personal relationships with anyone, right? The only people you have are your family and very close friends. So yes, the culture is taking a hit. I personally feel that we have been cut off from each other and that is kind of becoming counterproductive but with time as we are getting used to things, I think that will also grow in my opinion. Like I have started making one call a week to someone who works with me who's a close friend of mine and just having a conversation which is a non-work conversation because I think we all need to really keep a check on each other if we are doing well or not right now. So we could move to each other and we could figure out that, oh, this guy is a little upset or that guy is a little tired. Right now it's all calls and it's just one 15-second, 15-minute discussion. You don't understand all that. So that is taking a hit but I think we'll have to live with it for now. Right. So also take us to the two campaigns, any of the two campaigns that you've done, I'm just locked down and how did you put it together? So there are, at Megheri Bhavan India, so the philosophy that we are trying to do is we have a bunch of people who are into, who understand a lot of digital and they understand a lot of ATL. So then they know both sides of the spectrum. So the two ideas that there are many others in the pipeline right now but the two ideas that we've recently gotten out, one is a film, is an ATL film. It's a pure film. So we started also this project on Tali which is United for Progress, started off before the lockdown. We started off discussing scripts, discussing scripts that would be shot and at the end of, so it's launched on the 27th of June, which is MSNE day. The original plan was to shoot a film and put it on there. We went around in scripts, then the lockdown happened and then see the thing about topical days as so Tali is an accounting software. One of the biggest audiences is the MSME category of consumer. The medium micro enterprises, those people. Now that day happens to be on the 27th. You, we either shoot a film or we kind of put up a video together. We started off with an ATL film, shooting, discussing scripts and all that. Then COVID happened. So the good part, I think, what we've kind of achieved in Tali is that when you look at the film, it doesn't seem as if it's put together using footage. It's seen as if it's shot. Like it's the closest that I think we can get to, in my opinion, we can get to making a film look like less of an AV and more of a shoot. So that is the one project that we had done. The second one was a typical, is a very hardcore user generating content, user generated content piece that we have done with Big FM called Pride From Home. Okay, now Pride From Home. So the last month, all of last month was Pride Month. So we, normally we go for rallies. We go for a lot of these gatherings to show our support for the LGBTQ transgenders and every community. Because of the COVID pandemic, we've not really been able to express that. So we collaborated, we work on projects with Big FM. We collaborated with Big FM and we came out with this action-enabled integration in life. So if you've seen the Pride flag, it follows a certain sequence of colors, right? So right now, if I need to show my support in the Pride Month, all we ask people to do is put up their clothes when they put them out to dry in that particular sequence of the pride colors. And that's it. And we've got immense interaction in people. And so this is a very typical social media campaign. This is what I meant when, that we are trying to do ATL and digital well. So people just shared the pictures, people shared pictures of how their clothes were hanging and they shared. So I am anyway going to hang out clothes, right? I'll just do it in the sequence and it's as simple as that. Simply, it is the more people interact with it. And that's what we did. So that's Pride from home for Big FM. That's amazing. So how are client budgets now? That's another question I want to understand. What is the general mood like? Because when it all started off, things were very uncertain. So do you now see them finally wanting to spend or are they still tackling their questions? So I think the update coming down from Feb itself, right? Because the business had started stacking a bit in March. They kind of went like, right? But recently after the market kind of opened up, after people are starting going to stores and malls and everything. So every project that was happening around Feb and March were paused for later. We will check this out later. We will check this out later. I think there is a, there is this tendency. I don't think we've come to the, right? Original amount of the budget. The budgets are lesser than we were discussing then. But the positive signs are that we have started discussing the projects again. It's not as if the later, right? Now we're discussing each other how to get this one out, how to get this thing out. Acharya, we don't have that much money, but we have this much money. So it's opening up. I think we'll take some time before we can come back to normal and kind of get to the budgets that we used to. But right now they are a little hard on the budgets because they have different things to, and we understand where clients are coming from. They have different things to look at their business. If the business survey is advertising will come in later also. We can do that. Absolutely, right. That's happening. That's nice to know. So also, I've heard that this entire situation has brought in a great deal of upheaval in the way we work as a matter industry. And there are a lot of green shoots of opportunity. So for example, I see a lot of creatives doing work on their own, doing things on their own on domestic violence or things that they care about. Secondly, they say that in these three months, digital transformation got enacted so fast. Yes, of course. Even traditional agencies are getting into creative. They're getting into things like lead generation, enhancements of social engagement. So where do you see the green shoots of opportunity? So I think adaptation of digital and the increase of it, I think it's beautifully spiked. We have gotten used to having video calls. We are getting gotten used to having these presentations. I think it's beautiful. If we ever get 100% back to normal, I think we will end up being more productive because it will be a combination of the physical interaction that we used to have and a combination of this. Now I no longer need to fly down to Delhi for a Delhi meeting. I think we can do it. Even if things return to normal, we can do it. Like I can sit in Bombay and have that meeting. Initially, the first instinct of everyone was there is a meeting in Delhi. Let's fly down to Delhi. We will start avoiding those things. It saves a lot of time. It saves a lot of productivity. Another thing, as you rightly mentioned, I think it's a very interesting point where we started, so I think being stuck in home has sort of sensitized us a lot. We've started concentrating and being more, paying attention to things like domestic violence, pride, or say, depression for that matter. We've started, I think, as a community, we've become more sensitive to things because we've all been pushed in one box right now. We have, we've kind of, like I don't remember an age where people said that, keep meeting, cancel, someone's very upset right now. Okay? Or someone doesn't sound like they do, right? And normally, we would say that, okay, let's finish this discussion. We will crack a joke, that person smiles for a second, then we kind of get them, but we get the work going. That was, now, however, hard or difficult it sounds, we kept, and it was also because we were physically in the same space, right? So you could understand, we are sensitive to it, we understand that everyone's going through a difficult patch. So we kind of, that's, I think, one of the best things that have come out of this whole lockdown that we've become more sensitive to each other's state of mind, right? Another thing that I think that is great is that the spike in digital, like, because we could not do ATL, which is television, print, and outdoor, the amount of pieces on digital have increased. The spends on digital have obviously increased, but the amount of creativity also has increased, right? It's challenging to do a piece, which is, which can interact with people who are stuck in their houses. I can no longer do a 360 activity where I do a mall activation, I can, no. So all of that gets shifted to digital. Now, I don't think we have ever faced this kind of a restriction before, in terms of thinking, nor I think we will ever face it again, hopefully, right? So that also kind of puts your thinking into a box, and when you break out of that box, it'll be something that, it's generally something that we've never seen before, because the problem and the need is so new that the solution that comes out automatically becomes a novel idea, right? It becomes a stronger, it's new how you approach it, right? Like, for example, I don't think if the pandemic would have hit us, I don't think we would have ever done the Big FM Pride From Home idea, right? The dry out clothes in a particular pattern, I don't think we would have ever done that. It's because we are all stuck at home where this sweet idea has come out. So that is also kind of pushing us in a corner, and we are like jumping back to the problem and saying that we'll handle it better, we'll handle it more creatively, we'll handle it with essence, we'll do that. So that's one of the few good things that have come out. So lastly, I want you to give out a message on creating of its adversity. Okay, message. Okay, so the biggest thing that I keep telling my team is that whatever we are going through right now, this too shall pass. Like we will come out stronger from this and the only thing is, the only option we have right now is to keep swinging. Then we have to just keep swinging and hope to hit as many balls as possible. So I think that holds true for everyone in my previous agency when I also talked to people, that's what we need to do right now. Right now, we just need to keep swinging because we're not going to hit all the balls right now. We have to keep swinging so that we hit as many as we can. And this will pass, we will get back to normal. We just need to keep our patience in place till we do that. So that's it. Amazing. Thank you so much for your time and for those very interesting insights. And I'll come and see you at your office. If things get back to normal, I'll be discussing the post-COVID world. Thanks so much. Thank you. Stay safe, stay connected.