 Welcome to American Newsweek Take One. I'm Tim Appachell, your host. And today's title is Americans, or excuse me, MAGA GOP Against Ukraine Supports Putin. Since 2016, we've seen Donald Trump praise Vladimir Putin all the time. And that hasn't stopped until this week, Putin has, excuse me, Trump has compared Putin to is on top of his game. He did the same thing with President Xi. And what's behind that? In fact, what's behind the MAGA GOP seemingly supporting Russia and Putin, despite the horrible things that Russia and Putin has done? Like what? Well, he's killed off his political enemies. He's jailed his political enemies. He has initiated a war, a war of war crimes, most likely 100,000 or more troops, Russian troops dead. So what's the praise? Yet, Donald Trump does it. And to follow Donald Trump, his minions of MAGA GOP, they also praise Russia. What's the bottom of this? We're gonna get to that. With me today are my esteemed guests, Chuck Crumpton and my co-host, Jay Fidel. Good morning, gentlemen. Chuck, remember in Helsinki, Donald Trump is at the podium and all the intelligent agencies said most likely Russia was involved in that election, the 2016 election. He basically said, I don't see why he would be. I've talked to him and he's very serious that he wasn't involved. So Donald Trump right there in the world stage took Vladimir Putin's word over his own agency's word. That was just the beginning of things. And then all through his election, he continued to praise Putin and he's a smart guy, he's a genius and that continued on for quite some time. So here we are. Ukraine, we're now into plus 500 days, thousands and thousands of people dead and where's the genius in Putin and why does Trump have the love affair and therefore his MAGA GOP followers have a love affair with Putin, Russia and against Ukraine. Tough question, I know, but here it is. Well, I mean, first of all, you got to remember that for narcissists, the theme, the guiding principle, the cardinal tenet is always, it's not what you do, it's what you get away with, it counts. So if you look at an autocrat, a dictator, no matter how egregiously, immoral, inhumane, if they do it and they get away with it, that's going to earn Trump's admiration and emulation and allegiance. Well, doesn't his followers realize that what they're supporting is really quite un-American? That's a great question. I think rephrasing it just a little bit, can any of us figure out what his followers actually do realize of what is truthful and reality? I don't know, I don't know how low on that scale you can go and find a common denominator where there actually is a majority of his followers who actually realize the truth of that reality. Well, last question then, where is the public shame, if you want to call it that, the scarlet letter of basically defining people as being way out of step with our ideals of the Constitution, the rule of law and anti-autocratic society? Who's to call them out and why aren't they doing it? I guess that's my question. Well, that one, I think we've had a lot of opportunity to realize that as long as the the victims, the ones whom it's asserted against, the ones whose rights are excluded, taken away, eroded, are the other. They're not his white, largely male, but also female evangelical base. They're fine with it. The question is- They're fine with it. Yeah, they are. That's what makes me scratch my head to say they're not just fine with it. They're blatantly fine with it. And I just don't know where that has, how that's caught on. Jay, to you, how is that caught on? How has a certain segment of this population of the United States, maybe 30%, 35% somewhere in there, how is something like this so un-American that you're supporting Russia and Putin, how is that caught on and how did that happen? Yeah, just to tell you, the last time I looked, 64% of Republicans, that's not Republican, Maga Republicans, 64% of Republicans oppose further aid and support to Ukraine. It's really extraordinary. And it's changed. I'd like to go back and have a little walk with you guys in history. You know, we had a cold war going on and we didn't like much about what Russia was doing and Putin's predecessors. And it was a cold war. It was always a threat of a hot water. It was a nuclear cold war. And if you went around the country and talked to people, they would say, those damn filthy communists, you know, they were a big threat to the United States. Okay, first of all, went to around the time that Trump was first elected, a New York Times reporter went to a gun show in the South and walked among the booths there. And the question was always the same. How did it feel about Russia? And the answer was always the same. Oh yeah, we haven't treated Russia fairly. We ought to give Russia more credit. They're really our friend. We ought to straddle up to Russia. Russia, they're good people. And so what happened, you know, in the South, those guys, you know, just a few years earlier, we're calling them filthy Pinko communists and all that. Now Russia was the good guy, what happened here? And I suggest to you, it's gotten much worse. If you went through that gun show today, you'd hear the same noise and they would be saying the same things, perhaps more stridently. So I think it's a two step, Tim. And what I mean by that is that we have a cult with Trump and people will follow him even if he boots somebody on Fifth Avenue. There are no guardrails, as Chuck suggests. They'll buy anything he's selling. And indeed, you know, they do know better in their hearts, they know better. They know the Russians are not good for us. They know the United States must stand up and follow the principles that have guided it all this time. They know that it's not a good thing to oppose aid to Ukraine, but their greatest loyalty is not to the history and morality of the United States. Their greatest loyalty is to the cult. To Trump, whatever he wants them to do, they do. You know, what's troubling about that is, you know, he takes the position, increasingly so, against Ukraine, and they follow him. And I suppose now if you ask most of them, there's 64%, maybe nearly 100% of the magus, they would say no more support for Ukraine. And certainly, you know, the Marjorie Taylor Green, ultra-conservatives would count that to the heavens. And I find it extraordinary. And I find Kevin McCarthy extraordinary. Remember, he's the guy that said, all of this with the Department of Justice is all of which, and we should disregard everything they're doing. Now, what these people are saying collectively is, they're against whatever Joe Biden wants to do. They're against the country. They're against what they know of the better angels. And they're with Trump. And that means part of that is we want to destroy the country. We've had enough of this democracy thing. We are looking for a strong autocratic leader and we'll follow him wherever he wants us to go. This is very, very discouraging. You know, this is what's happening. As you just said, in that explicit way, why aren't we hearing this from other leaders, the Democrats, the independents, those in the GOP party that are not for Trump, they're not for Putin? Why haven't we heard the words that you just spoke from other people? Well, I think democratic parties, the nomenclature is wrong. It's really the democratic fragmentation. You know, they get under that umbrella, but they're really completely fragmented. Yesterday, Jay Powell, remember her? She was the ultra left wing. When Biden was trying to put his package together, she was opposing him because it wasn't left wing enough. The infrastructure package, right? Or whatever it was. Right, right. I think she's got some kind of organic problem. She goes yesterday and she says, Israel is a racist state. Okay, that is completely wrong, completely unfair. But that's Jay Powell. And you know, with all the issues that are threatening this country, for her to go on national TV, on a national platform, and say that when she could be saying, what are you guys doing about Ukraine? What are you guys doing about the Department of Justice? What are you doing about Article 14th Amendment Section 3? What are you doing about that? She's talking about Israel as a racist state. What I'm saying is that she's not the only one, but she represents the fragmentations with Democratic Party. So if you're looking for a national leader among the Democratic Party, we have a way to go. Good point. Thank you, Jay. Hey, Chuck, you know, Jay made a really great observation that 64% of the GOP, it's not just the 33, 35% MAGA GOP that are kind of on board with this. Should we make a distinction of those who oppose Ukraine versus those who support Putin? Is there a difference in that? If there is, we haven't seen it. But Jay hit on another point that I think is really central to that. We have to remember when Barack Obama was elected and the Republicans still had slight majority in the Senate, Mitch McConnell was quoted as saying, my job is to stop everything he does. They have been oppositional at a level and to an extreme and through the use of extremism in ways that we have not historically seen. I'm glad you brought up Mitch McConnell. You recall his nickname back in 2016-17? Moscow Mitch. That's the one. Hey, Chuck, who do you think are the main cheerleaders of this movement to give Russia a pass or even pat them on the back? Atta boy, Pat's on the back. And certainly against further funding or extensive funding of the Ukraine war effort. Who do you think are the main folks involved in that? Well, if you're talking about the Republican side of the fence, it's probably easier to say who's not part of that. Certainly Liz Cheney, if whatever she is, is not. Tim Scott probably isn't. Well, that's a sad comment you just made. Who's not opposed to supporting Russia? I mean, think about that statement you just made. Yeah, find a Republican who stands up to that. Can I add something to this? The Republican Party really, I mean, I say that Democrats are fragmented, but the Republican Party is really lockstep fools, they're fools, they're buying what Trump has to say. And he's responsible for this. Never forget Comey rules. The book, the movie, and the fact. Trump was down on Comey, why? Why was he trying to control the FBI? Why was he making these undermining statements through the FBI and the intelligence agencies? Because he didn't want them to investigate him in his connection with Putin and Russia. And that's very clear in the Comey experience. He was afraid that, you know, who knows about the golden shower? I personally continue to believe that really happened. You know, the steel dossier. But it's more than that, is that he was lying about this hotel he wanted to build in Moscow. He was lying about the fact that Putin helped him big time in the 2016 election. And by the way, we've talked about this before. Perkoshin was the head of the IRA, the internet research agency that worked for Putin in Moscow using social media trying to affect our election in 2016. And I suggest to you, they did. And I suggest to you, they probably tried the same thing in 2020. But, you know, it wasn't well managed and the Republicans in general weren't well managed. So it didn't work, but that doesn't mean they didn't try. And it doesn't mean they won't try in 2024. So Krumpp has a lot to be afraid of. He's got to be afraid that it's gonna come out about the unholy relationship he enjoys with Putin. It's not just the war. He doesn't want people to know the unholy things that the unholy agreements he's made with Putin. Hey, Chuck, you know, Donald Trump seems to be the Pied Piper of mayhem and autocracy. The leader of, you know, would be autocracy for our government. You know, when it comes to his racist comments, he seemed to have this ability to blow the silent dog whistle. Sometimes it's a bullhorn where it's very obvious. But when it comes to support of Putin and Russia, is he using the same dog whistle? For example, how is Tucker Carlson night after night after night basically saying that Russia needs to be gain our support? I've seen some video of him saying explicitly those words. I should support, I should be supporting Russia. So if Donald Trump's the leader of the party, the leader of the pact, is it a dog whistle? He's blowing on this or is it more explicit? That's a great question. And I think it calls to mind for me, this may seem a little bit tangential, but it's not really an ancient Confucian saying, which is more eloquent in the Mandarin. But basically it is, it's hard to see the light when your head's in a really dark place. Point, excellent point. You know, and it brings us right back to who in the GOP has the integrity, the character and the courage to stand up to this and say, you know what, this is wrong. This was an attack on a sovereign nation, a contrary to all the principles of international law. He's already been adjudicated a war criminal. And you're praising this guy? Yeah, I mean, we, you know, we see other world leaders, they get in trouble, Boris Johnson had his troubles with having parties during COVID. I mean, if that's the extent of his sins, look at Vladimir Putin. I mean, my God, he's killing people, not only in his own country, but in foreign countries in England, you know, poising him to death. He throws people out the window and not personally, he has people throw his opponents out the window, yet he gets a pass from those in the Republican party as, ah, no big deal. He's a, you know, he still is worthy of our support. How does that pass the Giggle test? How does that pass the sensibility test for what we do as a nation, what we say as a nation, what we support as a nation? How is that possible? How is any of this possible? You've got an ex-president who's already been indicted twice. He'd likely to be indicted on major charges, felony charges at least two more times. Hey, you've got a group of people who are holding on to his coattails because he's still got control of the big bad donors, the money. There is no moral grounds or principle for any of this stuff. And they've neglected the fact that four million Americans a year turn 18. A number of million Americans every year is seniors pass. You look at those numbers and between 2016 and 2024, for that eight year period, that's a 52 million person potential voter pool. That's making a difference. And the Gen Z people are issue-oriented. They're not party-oriented, but as long as Biden and other Democrats take principal positions on key issues, whether it's women's reproductive rights or LGBTQ equality or diversity in education and in employment or any of the other areas, protection of the environment, any of them, they're going to be met with oppositional, amoral positions coming from the MAGA GLP and the rest of them who tag along because that's where the donors are. That's where the money is. All right. Hey, Jay, is in this environment of a rising tide within the GOP party to support Russia and maybe come out against Ukraine at least as far as funding, is Ukraine and Zelensky running out of time in this war? Will time not be beneficial? Oh, clearly, going on too long. It's a war where Putin wants to put it off. Putin wants to see Ukraine lose the funding and he's doing everything he can to achieve that in this country, in the EU and NATO, that through his proxies and otherwise. So I think we're almost at a year and a half now. Where does Zelensky begin to collapse and coming soon? If we don't provide the weapons, if we don't provide the money, if the Republicans have their way on the military budget and all the things they're tacking onto the military budget, including I'm sure that ultimately there'll be a limitation on support for Ukraine and the military budget, or at least as far as they see it. Zelensky won't have what he needs and if he doesn't get what he needs from somewhere else, he's presiding over a country that's essentially already in ruins. How can he deal with Russia? Although Russia is weak, Russia has sanctions to cope with but Russia under Putin still, even after a pregasion, is determined to keep fighting Ukraine and throwing Ukraine. So I think to answer your question, I think I hate to say it, but Zelensky is running out of time. Well, let's look at this timeline. Do you feel that Putin will hang in there long enough to see if Donald Trump becomes the 47th president? Well, if I'm at first, let me answer it going from the other side. If Trump becomes the 47th president, that's the end of Ukraine, right there. That's it. If he doesn't, but the Republicans remain opposed to supporting the war in Ukraine, that's a big problem. And of course, we still have what? The year and some months to go before that election. And Congress is in disarray, what shall I say? And the Republicans in the House are doing more disruptive things every day. McCarthy's more disruptive every day. And Marjorie Taylor Greene and her friends more disruptive every day. I can visualize a visible, tactile lack of support from Congress for Ukraine, which could have an effect on all of that before the election. Remember that if we are the leaders, we are the de facto leaders, we give more than any country in Europe more than really any combination of countries in Europe. If we stop, what are they gonna do? What is NATO gonna do? Even the most ardent, the strongest members of NATO depend on the leadership of the United States. Well, given that statement, that seems to play into the hand of the GOP criticism of support for Ukraine is that, once again, the United States is, you know, footing the bill for a proxy war. If you look at the percent to GNP, NATO countries are doing just fine. But as far as nominal dollar amounts, you know, United States is contributing far, far more for ammunition, weaponry, things of that nature. What about addressing that criticism? A couple of things. One is, you know, we've been the world leader, the city on the hill since World War II. Okay, two is we invented the liberal world order. That is our creation. We have got to support it. Three is we are the strongest economic power in the room. We have the ability. And four is the flip side is if we don't do it, it will collapse. It's not just their problem. We're talking about the liberal world order. We're talking about sovereignty. We're talking about some kind of God rails on countries that would like to invade their neighbors. If we don't stand up for that, the next step will be much worse. So in supporting Ukraine, obviously we're acting in our own interest. It's not that we're writing checks for people who don't care. It's just that we're writing checks to preserve our own principles and strength on the world stage. Okay, Chuck, you know, prior to World War II, we had several factions in this country, most of them on the East Coast. The Charles Lindbergh leaders were very much in support of Nazi Germany's efforts and certainly didn't have a problem with Herr Hitler. Are we in that same kind of environment? Or is history repeating itself as far as certain segments of our population, in this case, MAGA GOP, is history repeating itself in that way? It's a great question. And on the one hand, clearly there are a lot of really important common elements between what happened in concessions that wound up leading to Hitler's rise, power takeovers of Poland and other countries and what's happening with Putin now. There are certainly common elements between Putin's and Hitler's commitment to expending whatever resources it took, human and material, to win a war of attrition over other sovereign countries. And if you look at the recent NATO meeting, the strongest advocates, the most vocal advocates for Ukraine and its support were the other central and Eastern European small countries who know that they're next. So yeah, this is a juggernaut. It's a pattern. And unless somebody puts a stop to it, it will continue. But it never bet against people who are defending their homeland. If we learn then from the historical context, when the United States entered World War II, that support ended very abruptly. The door closed quickly because the war was on against Germany. So that support nationwide for Germany for those factions in our country. That was the end of that. Will this issue raise its head in the 2024 campaign? I mean, obviously Donald Trump brought it up at his campaign stop, going on and on about how China's President Xi is on the top of his game. Putin is at the top of his game and our guy is not. I mean, I've never seen anything quite that explicit of praising two countries that are trying to undermine the United States. And yet not only giving them a pass, but he praises them. Will we see more of that in the 2024 rhetoric? I think the Democrats would have to be really foolish to miss the opportunity to capitalize on the international support from countries that Americans do feel alliances with and support for England, France, Germany, others. And to make that a central part of the campaign, Biden is much, much stronger on foreign policy and achievement than Trump will ever be. Okay, well, let me go with that comment. Jay, in past, the GOP party has been the successfully taking the ground on the narrative that the GOP is the patriotic party of this country. Democrats, not so much. Is this an opportunity for the Democrats to say, no, wait a minute, we're for democracy. We're for the rule of law. We're for the defense of the constitution. You guys are giving Putin a gold star. Where is the patriotic effort in that? Is this an opportunity for the Democrats to seize that opportunity? Now, first I want to go back and talk about the way it was in the 30s with the Nazis in this country. Rachel Maddow made a commendable series, a podcast series called Ultra, when she got off her five day a week platform on MSNBC. And it's a very interesting read or listen, so to speak. But, and by the way, it went beyond the East Coast. It was also on the Nazis were on the West Coast and they were in the Midwest too, but in terms of the numbers, in terms of the effect on public opinion, not nearly as threatening as what we have now, what we have now is much worse. Because in those days in the 30s, people were more patriotic. They could remember World War I, they could remember what we did. They may have fought in World War I. So I think patriotism has been lost and twisted and perverted. And to go further, it just drives me up a wall when I see Trump out there. Surrounded, wrapped in American flag. As he says things and advocates for things that bring down the American flag, that bring down the country, the democracy, the constitution, all the rights, all the fantastic achievements the country has made over the years. He's trying to kill the country, but wrap himself in the flag. That is just mind boggling. And he's not the only one. The Republicans do that in general. Take a look at some of their photographs and the movie clips, and you will see this is part of their spelling point. And to suggest somehow, like interlinear to suggest that they believe in patriotism. How can you be patriotic when you're trying to destroy the democracy? And yet there are people out there that buy that. It's really out of one of those novels like Animal Farm or Brave New World where truth is fiction and fiction is truth, where the flag and patriotism are not the flag and patriotism. It's all perverted and people should not buy that. Now, to finally to get to the crux of my answer to your question, and that is this, it's up to the media, okay? And it's up to the democratic leadership too to respond to this point for point every single day. And yet we still have this notion of like balanced news. Yeah, I suppose Tucker Carlson may have a point. Let's have some footage on him. In fact, it's out of, it's crazy. So I think the media is not doing its job and the media has got to be really sharp. You know, a lot of the media that you see on cable TV, it's making fun of Trump. This is not a lighthearted moment. It's the end of our world, our country, our position in the global community. We really have to be serious about it and we have to respond point for point whenever people like Carlson or Trump make these outrageous statements. Right, Chuck's in question to you. Is the democratic party missing an opportunity by not taking the field on patriotism? Again, I think in the past, the GOP party owned it either through Lee Greenwood's proud to be an American song, country Western song to wrapping themselves in the flag and standing for a strong military support for law enforcement and love of country. They've had that field for every election I can remember growing up. Now, here's an opportunity for the Democrats to say your brand of patriotism is suspect. Should the Democrats take advantage of this moment? They really have no choice not to do that because the Republicans are now attacking the pinnacle of law enforcement, the Department of Justice, the FBI, the intelligence community, all of those things. They're oppositional to anyone that Trump declares to be his enemy. People need to be reminded of that. They need to be helped to see that. This needs to be brought up. Jay is exactly right. The values of democracy which Joe Biden has stressed and he stressed in the 2020 elections, which helped him need to be core elements of the communications, the image and the campaign for the Democrats. All right, we've run out of time. So last thoughts, Jay, to you. I'm very worried because, you know, we have been following this for years now and every time we look at it there are more things happening who suggest that our country is deteriorating politically and socially and maybe financially ultimately and militarily and in terms of being the city on the hill and being a national or international leader. So I'm very worried about this and if you don't ask me to bet on it, that's what I'll tell you now. Okay, Chuck, that means you get the last word. I would just second Jay on that. If independent critical thinking in just enough of the sector of the electorate whether it's Gen Z or beyond that it can make a difference again as it did in 2020 and 2022. That may be our hope for 2024. But we're going to need a controlling majority to be able to effect actual change that's going to elevate democracy to a sustainable level. All right, two great last comments from two great guests. I'd like to thank my co-host Jay Fidel and my special esteemed guest Chuck Crumpton. I'm Tim Apachella. This is American Issues Take One. Won't you join us next week? And until then, aloha. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please click the like and subscribe button on YouTube. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn. Check out our website, thinktechawaii.com. Mahalo.