 Go ahead, please. Thank you, Hervé Mariton, former French MP. One quick question mainly to Michael. You didn't talk much about NATO, so if you were to have a stronger position of Europe on defence, what does it mean as the evolution of NATO goes? That could also be addressed to Bogdan. Quick question to Richard and Stephen. You're very enthusiastic about Europe. Nonetheless, the Brits voted for Brexit. The last popular vote in France was a no vote in 2005. I voted yes, but the majority voted no. Many in Eastern Europe actually criticized the way Europe goes. Would you each of you make one proposal of concrete evolution in the way Europe could work? All right, thank you. Can you pass on the mic to the lady behind you? Thank you. And then moving it to the other side. My question is for Madame Guigou. You said that Europe has to be more involved in the affairs of the world. And you talked about politics towards Africa. What do you think Europe has to do with the crisis in the Middle East? Precisely towards Syria. Given that the refugee flow is based on Europe. I have a small comment also to Mr. Lothian. You said about the Shia Sunni divide. This is something I've researched thoroughly. I don't think not to have open to both sides. I don't think the West should get involved at all. This is something the Muslim ulama, the centers of Islam like Azar and Najaf, should reconcile among each other. Thank you. Thank you. The gentleman here in the second row, please. I'm Chol Guigou from Ambassador Morocco, France, and from a senior adviser to Korean president. In 1995, we launched the Asia-Europe summit process. We did it with the belief that it might contribute to making the world better. It was done through initiative of President Shiaq and Prime Minister Gochok Tong of Singapore. And then by the end of the summit meeting, he's continually held. But even though we have the pillar of discussion on the value, I wonder whether the process existing platform is properly used. In times of crisis like this, where we should discuss the refugee issue, we have to discuss. But the summit level sometimes good for meetings of leaders, but a little bit lackluster in terms of producing concrete results and exchange of ideas. So maybe intellectuals can join in that process. I hope very much that in the Asian process now we have India and Pakistan beyond China and Japan and Korea and ASEAN, of course. So we'd better valorize and use the existing platform to discuss common challenges. Thank you. All right, thank you. Let's take in a couple more questions. You have the microphone. I haven't forgotten you in the last row. Merci. Je vais parler en français. Pour Elisabeth Kigu, je retenus une idée intéressante, c'est que l'Union Européenne s'est définie par rapport à ses frontières. Est-ce que ceci n'a pas amené l'Union Européenne de temps en temps à tourner le dos à la Méditerranée et donc à faire perdre aussi à la Méditerranée sa centralité nécessaire? Certes, il y a une, c'est une belle conclusion, Afrique Europe. Mais est-ce que, actuellement, avec le retour de la croissance, avec les discours Macron, avec les initiatives peut-être de Merkel, ça n'est pas le moment de se reconcilier avec une frontière parce que tourner le dos à la Méditerranée, d'après moi, ça a été avant tout aussi au détriment de l'Europe. Thank you so much. Go ahead, gentlemen. My name is Stan Kozon, Capgemini. Question regarding immigration. Richard Burt told us that EU should define a strategy for migrations and immigration. Question to the panel, what is the likelihood that within a year, let's say when we meet for the 11th edition of this World Policy Conference, this strategy has been defined, number one, and second, its execution has started effectively. All right, thank you so much. Last question, the floor is yours. Daniel Delano, the central bank of Romania. Two questions, first one to Michael Lothian. When you say that the UN, the government of the UN should change because it reflects, there is a legacy problem. More clearly, what do you have in mind, basically? Secondly, Merkel-Macron, the key tandem. But what is the critical mass in terms of visions? We should help the Union redeem itself and move forward. They may not be kindred spirits when it comes to very concrete steps. Thank you so much. Now, wide variety of questions to many of you. Richard, some of you were addressed to you personally. Also take this as an advantage for final remarks as we go through the row and then wrap this session up. Richard? Well, I'll make just a couple of quick comments. First of all, I detect in many of the questions the kind of persistence of what I would call Euro-pessimism. Now, if we were here a year ago, we would all be wringing our hands about the threat of populism. We'd be worried about Marie Le Pen in France. We'd be worried about what was the AFD in Germany. In fact, one of my colleagues, Bill Drozdiak, wrote a book that's just been published. Unfortunately, he wrote it six months ago. It was called Fractured Continent. People aren't talking really anymore about a truly fractured continent. We know about Brexit. We know about Catalonia. But I think there is a new optimism. And I think the optimism does go directly to Merkel on the one hand and Macron on the other. And there will have to be a grand bargain there. As far as I understand Emmanuel Macron, he is laying out in a kind of brilliant, exciting way, a kind of Kennedy-esque way, a vision for Europe. And it's a vision based on putting Europe first. And it's also a vision based on finding a way to reform and strengthen European EU institutions, including the European monetary system. The big question for a long time has been, are the Germans ready to be brought along? Are the Germans prepared to make the necessary financial concessions to make Europe work? Now the Germans will never agree on a transfer union, but Merkel in the campaign made some comments and has said that I think that there is a new willingness to think about reforms, particularly of the monetary system, of creating what Europe in my judgment genuinely needs, which is a common fiscal strategy. And maybe the fact that Wolfgang Schoibler will not be the finance minister in the next German government means that there may be some more flexibility there. So I'm fundamentally optimistic about reinventing this German, French-German access within Europe, the motor that's important or necessary to make Europe work. There was, last comment, there's this question about, gee, can you come up with one idea for changing Europe? And I think I mentioned it. I do think that immigration has already been demonstrated to be a serious danger to European unity, and we saw that in very stark terms in terms of how different nations, and I have to say the nations of central Europe responded to the problems of immigration. I think historically it's understandable. These were countries that weren't as cosmopolitan, if you will, as Western European countries. They were under Soviet domination. They didn't have the experience and the openness that Western European countries had, and they responded in a predictable way. But I think if a European-wide approach, an EU-wide approach, not a national approach, if it can be worked out, is necessary. Because another crisis in the Middle East, a crisis in North Africa, could reemerge and create a new set of strains that would be very counterproductive to what I see as the very positive trends that are alive and well in Europe today. Thank you, Richard, for your assessment. And interestingly enough, of course, pointing out German leadership, Germany's role in moving forward. This is a panel, not too many people, not too many panels these days on the future of Europe without a German on the panel, but we have... Well, I'm the moderator. So we have six panelists as is. I won't chime in here, but I know that German leadership, I think, is talked about much more outside of Germany than it is within Germany, interestingly enough. Let's call it Franco-German leadership. There you go. I'm sure Elizabeth would have corrected me by the time it's her turn. But first, Steve, you may not be German, but of course you're a German expert. There were a couple of questions, I think, that you are very stewed to address. Okay. I'll be quick about this. I mean, certainly the existential panic that led to the Bratislava summit has come down. There's no question. And at least the European Commission is willing to take more political risk, whether they can come to a common asylum policy. I doubt, partly because it's such a matter of national issues, but three, not just one proposal, three proposals, very quick proposals. One, the problem is an immigration, the problem is loss of control. The problem is the sense of uncontrolled immigration, and there is now more Ordnung. There's more order to it, even in Germany. I think that issue is calming down. The problem in Central Europe is being told what to do by Brussels on this issue or other issues. So, three, one, frontier. Schengen has to have external frontiers that work, otherwise it doesn't work. Frontex, actually, which has a new name that I forget, is getting a lot more money, and it is doing more. I think that's really important. Second, Greek debt has to be forgiven, at least big chunks of it. The Germans are going to have to swallow that down. It's just, it's unsustainable. It's ridiculous. You can't have a stable euro otherwise. And three, my other suggestion, is that council meetings of country leaders should begin with breakfast and not with dinner. It would make a tremendous difference, I think, to the quality of the decision-making. On Merkel Macron, I mean, I respect Kellogg-Dass for Macron. What audacity, quite extraordinary. I think his speech was very good, but a little too early, because the Germans hadn't yet figured out a government, and I think he should have done more coordination, not just with Madame Merkel, but with the countries of Central Europe, too, who rather resented the speech, because they felt left out of it. And, you know, we'll see. I mean, I've just looked at a bunch of poll figures done by the Korber Foundation from Germany, and we want a lot from Germany. I'm not sure Germans want to give us what we want. I mean, yes, they like more European defence, but they don't want to spend any money for it. They will not, I mean, half of Germans will think they should not come to the aid of a NATO member if it were attacked by Russia. Half. That's Article 5. And yet, 85% of Germans believe the US will come to their aid if necessary. So there's an ambivalence and a schizophrenia which is historical and lasting and has not yet been resolved. Thank you, Steve, and we will, of course, continue to look forward to your astute observations in the New York Times about the current state and future state of the EU. Now, Elizabeth, there were a couple of questions directed to you personally, so please go ahead. Yes, thank you. First of all, Macron, I think it can give you a new impulse. That, of course, could give a strong impetus because Macron has decided to make reforms and that Germany has put in an exerted pressure on France for these reforms to be neglected. And the second thing is that, for the first time, it seems to me, for the first time, it seems to me that Germany needs France. It needs France, precisely, in need of France for those security issues, terrorist issues, and also as much as different movers of politicians and migration issues are really just particularly in the decline of the European countries. Germany is in such a situation that that's just demographic decline and so are many European countries that have the necessity of refugees, migrants and the necessity of playing host to the refugees. It's not going to be a world duty but a duty by virtue of international law. Of course the EU should keep strengthening itself really at this... we can't do everything at the European Union. There are many things, there are many things, a lot of things that need to be shouldered by the European state nations, the weapons of the EU, what the EU should do is have the EU that can encounter deep global challenges in a global war, global challenges that can't be encountered that pays to way countries around the world from them's security issue, because by far too long, we need to grow more in that perspective so Trump will take your responsibility when he shows us shoulder to responsibilities. That's true but it's not tomorrow by the EU that the EU will be able to substitute you to guarantee the warranties and take parts of Article 5 and the protectionism of America it can happen overnight. So we need to decentralize the Atlantic lines by being protected, the European continent, and as far as putting people down to work in such a way as for the better way to force security and strut to decision-making in countries that are never militarized solutions that you can start at interventions that are always geared towards the triggering conflicts, the example of Iraq and some places not battle groups that's going to protect Poland for Russia. So we need them to be better and pro-regarding this issue that is having a real armament industry, a real weapons industry and have common immigration strategy. Back to migration now, it is true that it's an enormous area of concern and I would get started by saying that we need to certainly strengthen our borders, and that was actually the initial premise just like for the euro we were made to create a European economy which we never did. So that's a high time for us in Iraq on things that have been delayed for two decades. So many people put their lives at risk by crossing the Mediterranean they will cross anyway. So we need development, we have major solutions and I have to think of T figuring out how such a situation could be solved as pointed out by Patala Wala and we keep getting the Mediterranean as a border. The Mediterranean should be a powerful area for the cooperation and partnership should all be organized because every country on the one hand Europe on the other and the Mediterranean on the other I believe is and part of Europe I do believe that this is the only way out otherwise it would be in a day in Iraq and that should be the very objective to have a clear vision for the organization of the European continent in such a very stout world or in the war and the Trump regime so we didn't speak much about Russia but to show some time and to turn this continent and to look towards the south even more Europe succeeded when it has come up with military sponsors through fears and apprehensions if you have to hand them over now Europe has to find out responses to fears from globalization Thank you so much Elizabeth now they are telling me in no diplomatic terms that the session is over but and I know that you have to catch your flight so why don't you go ahead we won't hold it against you we don't want to miss your flight and Bogdan and Michael if I could ask you to be very very brief so we can wrap up the session just one word before I leave EU has been always guarded by Asians especially by Japan as an anchor of conscience and stability and it's so sorry to see Britain leave now that's what I call a graceful exit thank you so much Mr. Okamoto I have a safe flight back to Tokyo Michael and Bogdan let's be brief three certain questions first of all NATO I didn't talk about NATO NATO dilutes the argument about European security first of all if America is not part of NATO there is no NATO secondly the last time NATO article 5 was invoked was in relation to self defense in relation to 9-11 in Afghanistan we begin to dilute the argument about European security second I agree it would be much easier not to take sides but the Sunni art they do have the backing of a majority of the West and the Shia feel very strongly about that and I think we have a role in Europe where we could rebalance that slightly and give a certain reassurance which would be useful third of the United Nations I could write a book about this I'm not going to deal with it but basically we have a system in the United Nations Security Council where one permanent member can say no and that becomes the world order and we need to get to a situation where there is a better judgment of what is in the world's interest rather than the interest of one nation and we need to be able to get there just one final comment I keep on hearing everybody has reassured this year because after last year's concerns about the advance of the far right it didn't happen I wasn't here last year 25% of the French voted for Marie Lapin watching 20% or whatever it was in Germany voting for the far right watching this movie across Europe that is scary enough these countries are prepared to invest their electoral strength in movements like that and I think we make a great mistake if we become complacent about that Thank you Michael Terry is waiting in the wings and you know he can be very persistent 60 seconds Bogdan it's very good it was a very good question about NATO we haven't forgotten about NATO and this panel was about abilities of the European Union to react in the sphere of security that's why we didn't talk about NATO but very briefly I'm satisfied with both results of Newport and Warsaw Summit concerning reinforcement of the eastern flank of the Alliance enhanced forward presence and pilot forward presence these were good solutions and they were and are still consequently implemented so implementation of those decisions goes in the right way that's first secondly there was a crucial decision of the Warsaw Summit this declaration between the EU and NATO the second gen of NATO and both Junker and Tusk on behalf of the European Union on the cooperation between those two entities it is necessary to enhance cooperation between the EU and NATO in the sphere of security without that we cannot speak about better feeling of security in Europe and thirdly I have a feeling that we should work within NATO concerning the southern flank because the strategy concerning the eastern flank during the summit in Warsaw was presented in a very clear and visible way but to protect the protection of the southern border of Europe was not consisted only on some elements we should work on comprehensive strategy within NATO how to reinforce and to protect the southern alliance border thank you ladies and gentlemen surprisingly we weren't able to address and solve all problems within 90 minutes of the European Union but I think we were able this spectacular panel was able to give you a lot of food for thought particularly after the Trump panel yesterday building up on what was being said yesterday about the future of the US now focusing on the future of the EU thank you so much for your active participation but particularly for the spectacular panel thank you so much