 5-4. Mi name is Ram Magukko. If you've just joined us, we are continuing with our conversation today on politics. Joining me this morning is Robert Osoro, who we've had since morning, we did the newspaper review with him. He is a political analyst and a psychological counselor. Now joining us on set is Edgar Williams Koske, political analyst. Happy new month. Happy new year. It's been a very long time. How many months ago? Last year. When you were killing the big guy, the other set. Corona part one. But thanks for coming man. Thank you, thank you. You've forgotten to mention that also other people watching. There are also other people watching. My uncle is there watching. It comes from the D.C. headquarters. So he's watching whether we are doing things the right way. You might find yourself in your valley. We are polite. We are very polite. You are polite. Me, me, I am polite. If you say something, kiboko. Kiboko njimbadi. Most of the time you are people who are watching. You know Kuru Sagana. Sagana. During the weekend the president met thousands of delegates at the Sagana State Lodge in Nyeri where leaders from Mount Kenya region voiced their unanimous reviews in regards to this sum. Most of them saying that they support the BBI. Saying that they are together with the president. The president says that what the country needs is a constitutional change. Now this is the second time that we are having this meetings in Sagana. Let me start with you Edgar. What do you make of the whole meeting that took place in Sagana together with the political proclamations that were made? I don't know whether to be very polite or whether to be very direct or to be very, or to weigh things or to say them in a nice manner. But there is no way of saying things in the other way around that we have to say things the way they are. That was a tribal meeting in Sagana. It was a kikuyu meeting. Why do you say so? They should have used kikuyu dialect to address each other and I think at some point they were using kikuyu. No, but he was going to meet people from his own region and people from his own region are predominantly. When you elected the president of the Republic of Kenya your region is Kenya you do not go down to tribal kakuns. What is he teaching us? We the leaders, we the young leaders of 254 what are we learning from a president? There even people watching right now who cannot speak kikuyu? Who cannot speak Kalanjinoluo? They were born in Nairobi. What are you telling them? But what's the problem with him having a meeting in Sagana? There is a tribalist nation coming. There is a tribalist nation coming in future. When we have a meeting in Sagana, he is in Sagana. I am so mad. It is Sagana state loch. State. Ramaguko state. And this is a state media. Osoro, do you agree with it? I don't agree because I think that was a family meeting. So as Majas is talking about that was tribal. Of course it was a family meeting because he had already said it's a Mount Kenya meeting. So what's the problem with that? You know there is some public things and there is some family things. Like that was a family thing. So they could decide to speak kikuyu, speak soheri, English and other language because that was home. I think he called it home ground so that they can share ideas. That's what he was doing. And if it is a state loch regardless of the venue it is the people that were called from that region thereby meaning that he had an interest with those same people. So say that it is a tribal meeting. How does that pan out for you that it is a tribal meeting from a specific group of people considering that he is the president of a whole nation? I think the reason why I am saying that this is not tribal it is a family meeting. It is because you see as a father you can decide where to meet your people. You can meet them in your house. You can take them for somewhere or outside your house but the meaning of the meeting or the agenda does not change because you are out of your home. Okay. What is your reaction to that? Well, sometimes it is hard to defend the government. As you can see it cannot defend the government very well. Sometimes there are things that are done and you try to defend the president and you cannot defend the president but first and foremost, there was bribery that took place on air. Every emcee was given 2 million shillings grant using your taxes, your taxes. Do you pay taxes Osoro? Why do you call it bribery? It is not bribery. Man, Rama Guko. That is not bribery. What is the sense you claim that it is bribery? Ram, you don't have an opinion here. You are a host. I am asking you the question. What substantiates the opinion that it is a bribery? Past the BBI, I give you 2 million shillings in a state lodge. If the BBI was good for Kenya, then we will not be extantinated money. Now, what are the MPs being given? We are not being told. Maybe they have been given someone, say it close to 7 million shillings but what am I being given? We are not being given Ram to pass the document. The declaration in a state, in a public utility, a declaration to pay people 2 million shillings to pass a document that is unpopular is disgrace to our country. What about a declaration to give people willbaros? We are also able to willbaronomics. Let us deal with these devil first. After that, we can go for willbaronomics. Then we can talk about it. No problem. So you are saying that it is an illegal view. It is an illegal myth. Actually, I don't even know how to describe it using moral words. I just said it. We would like to know your opinion about this story. What do you think about it? The hashtag is why in the morning at Ram Aguko at Y254 channel. As you give in your opinions in regards to this we shall sample your comments. As you continue with this morning conversation in regards to that, remember still their opinion is their opinion. What is your opinion about it? Let me quote the president. He said that we will still sit in the negotiation table to ensure that our region is not taken lightly. That's what he said. We will still sit in the negotiation table to ensure that our region is not taken lightly. How does this also reflect the president's commitment to his own region? Well, you are talking about the Kikuyu region. We are talking about tribal connotations in national TV. Really. Ram Aguko. This is the biggest decent of the president. He has gone to the lowest. We are talking about a region of the front door, a window and a bedroom door, a back door to a region. Osoram? It may not be so. Do you agree with what Edgar is saying? No, I don't agree because you see, we must differentiate between the public, between the private matters. As much as you are in the public, you are the president of the Republic of Kenya, there are matters that you have to make in your own house because especially when you see that your own house has been violated, you know, like there are men who goes to your family and they try to actually input some of their own rules so that when you are coming back to your house, your wife, your children, they check to you because of what they have been told about you, against you. Now that's what the president was just trying to actually to tell them that what you have been told is not true. This is the right way because he has realized that someone else is going to his bedroom without that game, with exactly information. Then he was trying to bring them to understanding and to let them understand that this is the right way. But politics is now coming in so you have to clean your own house first. Yeah, he was cleaning his own house because people have been saying that the deputy president has already taken over Mount Kenya and they wanted to show the world that Mount Kenya still remains in my hands. And that's what happened to you. So how many people are there? At the end of the day, it is true that every leader comes from a region and it is from your own region is where you must build from. Even Honrable Rairodinga builds from his region just as Honrable William Samoerito also builds from his region. That's why he was in Narok because he is building from his own region. Well, regardless, that is the region that he is predominant. Mount Kenya, we have Meru, we have Embu and all, and all. In the international TV, we are discussing tribal groupings and this is the lowest that we can think and the president is leading the country to a direction that should not go. Rairodinga too has called people from that other side of the land. Our leaders, I just lost the two of them are lost. Let's say the three of them. Why are we not talking about William Ruto because for the last one week we did not have Sagana anywhere in Drift Valley. But also in Rairodinga we did not have Sagana in Rift Western. Actually it was not even in Nyanza. It should read the dailies that Rairodinga has called on the leaders from Nyanza. But I don't think even the leaders from Nyanza should be called. They have already passed the BBI. Over and out, done. But look at this. Look at this. Like William Ruto is saying that Rairodinga has failed the government. Tell me and Rairodinga was asking this simple question. I'm not in the government. We are actually also outside the government. There are the two gentlemen, the deputy and the president who are in the government. Now how Rairodinga comes in? You see, because even for the last one term the deputy president has been actually campaigning. Yes. And even right now it's campaigning. Can't you start doing what they promise the Wanaingi to do so that Wanaingi will actually just look at what they have done for them because if the president fails the deputy has already failed. And this is what the deputy president William Ruto said. I supported President Rukinyata in 2013 and 2017 without conditions. The state should not be pushed to backing my 2022 candidature. And this is what he said. And if it is regards to the 2022 candidature that the deputy president is trying to rally up his supporters for the president has said that his term is not yet over. So the politics of 2022 as to who should back who kumia, kumia kebado haideisha should that be a discussion at the moment? Ramamuko, Sagana 3 was reduced to a discussion of the deputy. How? How will a meeting of that magnitude be reduced to getting people to tour the line to get the people out of the deputy president? It is the lowest day stop. The president should steer away from the politics of the deputy president once and for all. Why would we discuss the deputy president on a national podium like that from the president? It wasn't right and it wasn't in the right direction. And Sagana should have been something else other than the deputy president. But he has to be because he is the deputy president a symbol of national unity. The president? Also part of the presidency? Ya, so that's why I was telling you. Ya, so they have to talk about it. The president should steer away from such politics. Talking about his deputy. Talking about his deputy. And what about the deputy? Talking about him. You see the comeback that he made. He made a very good comeback. The president owes no one. No explanation. The president owes no one for being elected as president. And we should not owe any community. And isn't that addressing the president? But in that point if you look at that was not coming from the heart because in a statement he said this if you look at it well in a statement there's something that which William Ruto said if you look at it at all. He said you know if people promise that they will do this and they have decided not to do so we don't you see we don't like expecting to be supported. So if you look at him very well still that statement was not from the heart. He was saying the president promised but now he has decided not to. You feel like he wasn't sincere in his... He feels like he's not sincere and actually what he's saying is Kassasti is not just saying like for instance let me say you're saying about the point that why the president was talking about William Ruto actually in a given time when you are defending your family and your children and you want to put them in order what you do you correct them from the mistake that which has happened he was just trying to correct them from what William Ruto has been saying to the region. That's what that's how he came in because my colleague my good friend just said why the president could talk about William Ruto you know William Ruto must have come in because he was correcting a mistake that which happened there. Well the president said this and I quote you claim you are the solution to the young people I am not looking for that. No. Go ahead. You claim you are the solution to the young people. Yes. You are giving them willbaros. Who told you that they need willbaros. They need jobs they need jobs they need jobs they want to be self dependent. The tool that is giving the the big people a sleepless night the willbaros. Now where are the one million jobs? I want to ask I want to ask where are the one million jobs a president talking about one million jobs he has not created really and you are talking about willbaros. Why do you talk about the president who has not created jobs yet you don't mention the deputy president who is part of the president. Because he is part of it you know if a father fears in a family you are on one side of it. No. Let me say this if a father fears in a family then the whole family has failed. The whole is on the side of willbaros. No. Come on. No. I am just trying to lay facts here Edgar I am trying to lay facts here because you made statements that lead towards one direction and I am asking if a statement touches one person in a family what about the other person if a statement touches an office why mention one individual who holds an office and not the other individual who holds the same office That's just a question. I'm not picking sides but why mention one and leave there You have justified yourself we have released you No. No. It's my question. Let me say this we were talking about the president we have not gone to willbaronomics which we will go I am seeing you you are taking us there. That's why we are gone. But what I'm asking is he is talking about you quoted him and you talked about one million jobs took over an employment in the country we have 16 million youth out there without jobs ram we have 2 billion shillings being stolen daily by his the person is supporting the country has 9 trillion shillings in debt when you handed over this country to Uruk-Neta it had 1 trillion shillings now you have 9 trillion shillings he is talking about let me help the doctor let me come in I'm so mad I'm also actually so mad because you see these people look at how they were doing things from 2013 they were two even the ties were same color the suits and everything and now I'm not understanding how one can blame each other even the president himself he cannot blame the deputy and the deputy can blame the deputy ok, the deputy comes that they are not parted ways but the president is blaming the deputy saying that you cannot trust the deputy because you cannot trust because the deputy he wants to put a prem on the president so that the rigas of the president can be toiled that's what he's trying to do for instance look at the deputy is the one who stood and said within 6 months we'll be having these stadiums within this time we'll be having wrap tops in the schools within this time he was the one speaking actually if you look at very well the president was very wise he was behind and that's why the president he knew that if he comes in the way he came the deputy could have not supported him in 2017 that's why the deputy was very quiet the president was very quiet until the first term ended when he got to the second term and the deputy supported him immediately he stood you see that is actually what was happening and the deputy will not blame the president that he has failed they have failed port because they were working as a team and if the 10 years tena ends it ends for both of them and that is it that is what they promised the president promised the deputy that he will support him 10 years do you feel in your opinion that the actions that the president has taken to this point in time to this very moment are there other actions that he should have taken or are there other actions that he should now take starting by the action that the president has taken they are very okay because he wants to correct his case so that things will go online is there something that he needs to do and there is something that he needs to do now you know people have been saying that is the deputy who is governing the government not the president so he has realized let me say he is repped now he has come back from the president because he left the country with his deputy is the one who has been governing the government so sleeping is the act of leaving the country to the hands of the deputies that is why the country has how when a president leaves the country to do duties that are of national issues national issues the reason why I say this how does that reflect look at this a man is a king on his own kingdom so in a time that there is a separation that is the time the man should be stand and build his own empire now the president they have been working as a team now the deputies take over you know there is some wives we are in homes who can overtake you because of the popularity of the people because of the friendship now they want to be the reading the heads of the family and that is what the deputies did and the president has realized that it won't be the president has stood up now that is why the deputies as actually like is quitting himself just like any man when he realize that no the wife is becoming the head of the family and he stands firm what happens the wife quits that's what's happened Adika I'm looking at what took place a few a few years back and this video has been trending you blame the president for the lack of jobs for the youth and the lack of lack of lack of structure in the country those infrastructures were meant to be built you also mentioned that the president ought to be blamed for the debts that we have as a country now going back to what you said about the jobs that are there wasn't it the deputy president who was also standing with the deputy with the president on the same platform on the same day and they were sharing the same same moment giving promises to Kenyans and these promises the same promises that even Honobora Amolo Diga mentioned and said that those are things that he is not part of and it is it is the presidency that should be had accountable for that and even Sora has had to complete his statement now let me say this let me quote the president in Thagana he said there are people shouting at the rooftop because I tell you this we have done this we have done that we have done this and we have stopped about my government achievements now Wurkenata himself has told us that the back stops with him and not the deputy the deputy is the principal assistant of the president and whatever even he was whatever he was saying he was saying it on behalf of the presidency if the president says that this thing is not going to happen that is not going to happen we ultimately gave the president Wurkenata leadership of this country he negotiates on our behalf when he goes to China to borrow one trillion shillings he is doing it on behalf of me on behalf of you on behalf of the country and you cannot tell him otherwise when he takes Air Force One to go outside the country you cannot tell him not to you cannot stop a media otherwise you will be shut down the only way to deal with the president who is borrowing on a borrowing spree is to remove the president and nothing else because the back stops with him even the study the ODIM people have been peddling or he is promising those are politics and those are propaganda the back stops with the head of state they are by removing the deputy from accountability too much politics come on deputy has to be held accountable well they are both accountable because this is the deputy this is the way wait this is the president and the deputy principal assistant assistant to the president now you have mentioned one word that is consistent in both statements president they are from part of the office of the president you see even if you cannot respect the president you should respect the presidency and when both of you you are in the presidency that means both of you are accountable for any mess that will be happening so they should not be a game of preming each other the president has failed this they should come and sit and see what they have not done for 1 inch I want us to move on to the next issue here about the BBI the president said it has been claimed that BBI is meant to help Rila what help does Rila want someone who is almost 76 years old you claim this document is for Rila which word does he represent in Ruiru if more money is allocated to Ruiru will it benefit Rila or the people of Ruiru end of quote and that is what the president said Osoro your reaction to that this BBI is not meant to benefit either Rila because the president is already tiring his term from the office and he said very well he has not told us that he is going to fight for any seat or neither needs the prime minister if you look at the seat people are saying that the president needs which is the prime minister it does not power so how can you become from the president to the prime minister and number 2 neither the BBI pass or not Rila would stand as a president but the BBI is for Rila so that's what I'm coming in to say that the BBI does not support Rila in any way because whether it passes or not Rila would stand as a president if he will and if he will not he will not how is it going to support him who does the BBI support the BBI is meant to support the community Koske it's even hard to support the BBI what do you want statement look look Ram we have all read the BBI or maybe we haven't the ones that we have seen around going around we have read them BBI is a document but what the whole situation is doing instead of building bridges it is breaking bridges how can you build a bridge to the to Rila Odinga when there is a bridge that has to be built to your deputy BBI is a document polarizing the country even before we go to how does this build a bridge to Rila Odinga and not the deputy president in what sense look at how they are fighting man look at how they are fighting look at how the deputy and the president are fighting look at the exchange of words if we are to build bridges across the country let us be sincere and build bridges across the country this is a document but the word in itself is so divisive very divisive let me come in by saying this how the PPI is actually helping the community look at the time of Rila Odinga and the president all the government as the deputy and the president when the opposition was there nothing could have gone home business was brought down there was fighting, there was violence every day but now due to PPI building bridges the country is now it has cooled down the country is at peace the deputy president he has forgotten that he is in the government he has gone already to opposition that's what he is doing because this PPI when it came if the deputy could have remained with the president and they come up together there could be no NFI before you just read that let me ask Osoro and the crew which crew? another one how is PPI resolving violence in the country? let me also answer that directly how many people, how many thoughts did Rila Odinga got in election how many millions of thoughts I'm not aware of that now the reason why I'm saying this it was 4.0 something the other one may be 5 the PPI, the 4.0 something people who were fighting may be in Kisumu now you can do business anywhere just know that Raida is the nation because of PPI because of PPI that's why you see they are quiet it has solved you can do business in Kisumu because if there is nothing on the table for them they go for violence they have mastered matyosi mandi amatia gas mandi sitting on the streets they know what violence can be and that is what they have mastered at the end of the day let me hold you there when we have people like the president and the former prime minister Rila Odinga shaking hands that handshake brought peace it is a fact that is a fact the document doesn't it was the document brought that handshake or the document came from the handshake the truth does the truth brought peace and what is this truth the handshake thank you you are together you are together I want to give this discussion to Kulose I want to give this discussion to Kulose I want to give this discussion to Kulose your producer can tell your producer can tell let's wind up with this we have mca's that are supposed to check this document now what is the expectation about the outcome let me start with you we have outcome of this of course the mcs will pass the document because one the document has given that 5% to the counties and from that the counties they have a a kek from it and what the mcs are doing is to get a kek for example for parcels and actually they have gotten it so how can you expect to oppose now you have been given an appointment of a certain position and then you are opposing it that's why the president realized that if they take to Komonimua Nainji it may be having a difficult time because of the opposition from the deputy president and these kakuns now he has decided they pass it through the counties because those are the guys who are representing the Komonimua Nainji let me come to you your expectation on the degree we have in the counties one something is good you have to give the document what I can tell the mcs is eat the money then if you want to pass the document you can pass the document we are about to see whether the Mount Kenya has responded to Sadana 3 but what I'm sure is that Nyanza will respond because it is Baba's staff but I'm here to see whether Sadana those are 10 counties from the Kikuiu region 5 counties from down there we are looking for a threshold of 24 counties to pass this maybe they will maybe they will not but the final person is Monainji the final person is Monainji right now the national government has not given out 10 billion shillings to the counties and that is only 15% you are talking about 35% national government to give the counties and realistic the new government to come in 2020 to whether it's Raelas or Kuruakots or Ruto eventually it irritate me whether it is anyone's government should declare 35% is not let me finish up with a quote by Kiampa member of parliament Paul Koinange who who say this and I quote people wanted to know what went wrong between him and the president and the DP and he opened up and that it was about trust and graft in the government that is according to the member of parliament honorable Paul Koinange thank you very much gentlemen for joining me this morning I appreciate your presence thank you Ram and please call us again we are not miss makers I love the discussion full of content and it was something that I feel we need to have soba discussions geared towards changing their nation for the better thank you very much even anyone who has been watching two deal from wherever you are all across the world remember we are live on our website www.y254.co.ke from any part that you are watching us from we appreciate your presence