 Thank you everyone for coming, a very warm welcome to everyone who could make it tonight, and I do apologise for all of those people that didn't make it, to watch this award-winning film, Eye Down Your Blake. My name is Faizia Smile, I teach in Development Studies here at SOAS. We've held a number of events in the department, but I think this one stands out as one of the most special. We're absolutely delighted that Ken Loach and Francesca Martinez will be joining us after the screening. Like so many of Ken Loach's films, this is not just a powerful drama, but I think it's a political intervention and one that is sorely needed in Britain today, and I think it's both affecting and effective. Perhaps more than any other of his films since Kathy Come Home, Eye Down Your Blake has caught and expressed the popular mood and crystallised a sense of outrage. It's a call to arms and puts the lie to the tired idea that political commitment in some way cheapens storytelling, and it openly takes sides, which again I think is more needed than ever. We're also very pleased that the People's Assembly against austerity could co-host this event with us, and I think it's appropriate that they're here. It's campaigns like the People's Assembly, the broadest coalition of trade unions, political parties, campaigns, and concerned individuals around that are crucial to the kind of debates and the kind of mobilising that we need today. I will hand you over to Steve Sweeney from the People's Assembly. We'll then start the film and finally we'll welcome our guests. Thanks everyone for coming. Thank you very much. Yeah, my name is Steve Sweeney. I'm one of the National Committee members for the People's Assembly against austerity, and for those of you that don't know the organisation, we were founded back in 2013 in response to the government's drive, the austerity, all in it together they kept telling us, but the government's austerity drive, and we needed a response to that. And as Faisy said, we're not a party political organisation in that we don't support any one particular political party, although we do have political parties and support from some members of the Labour Party, affiliations from the Green Party, but we're an umbrella organisation and we draw together the broadest groups in society from trade unions, including Unites, Unicern and the Communication Workers Union that represent workers that are actually on the front line of the austerity cuts. They're finding their terms and conditions are being driven down and the services that they work for are needing to be defended against Tory cuts. We've got the major social movement campaign groups and progressive organisations involved from Stop the War and War on One, so we have faith groups supporting the People's Assembly, and essentially that's what we're about. We're fighting against austerity, and although we're a national organisation, we also have many local groups that are involved in campaigning against attacks on the NHS, library closures, bedroom tax, strike action, many, many other campaigns that are happening in their community, so it's a real grassroots community-based campaign as well. I'm very honoured and pleased to be able to introduce the film tonight. The first time I introduced it was a special advance screening at the Tory party conference in Birmingham, and as we walked to the cinema, we walked past where the Tories were holding their conference, and they had big barricades, big walls blockading, security and police heavily guarding them, and you sort of think, well, if you're going to do that, as they're a point they wonder, they might realise, actually, we might be the bad guys here, but we took 20,000 people, at least 20,000 maybe more out on the streets then, to oppose their destructive policies. And it's their policies that are seeing the destruction of our national health service. It's their policies that are seeing the destruction of our welfare state. It's their policies that are seeing the destruction of housing, terms and conditions, jobs being driven down, and services being cut and closed. And these are all the very things that make up the fabric of society, and the very things that ordinary people, working class people, have fought for being destroyed in the name of austerity. I mean, it's a very moving film, I, Daniel Blake. It's a stark and shocking portrayal of what life is like for many people. So many people in Tory Britain. And as Faisy made reference to, I think it should have the same social impact that happened with one of Ken Loach's very first films, Kathy Come Home, which had such an impact in terms of the debate and the discussion around, around housing. But the People's Assembly, I'm just going to sort of finish, because I know people want to watch the film. But we, I said we're not just about demonstrations, but we are also about demonstrations. And we've got two very important demonstrations coming up, or two important events. One, on the 18th of February, we're holding a, or co-hosting with a number of a wide range of organisations, including Muslim Association of Britain, Muslim Council of Britain, Stop the War, Stand Up to Races and many, many other organisations. A Stand Up to Trump National Organising Summit. And that's a friend's meeting house from 1030, 1030 a.m. I don't need to explain to many people why we're doing that. I guess most of you, most of you will know, but we need to step up the campaign, especially as today with the, Chief of Metropolitan Police, let's slip that Trump will be coming in June. And the other thing I made reference to again was the National Health Service, is coming under massive attack from the Tories. The very foundations of the NHS are threatened in a way like that they've never been threatened since its inception. £22 billion worth of cuts and a massive reorganisation programme, which is seeing whole swathes of NHS services, including accident and emergency services, and whole hospitals being closed down. So a group of organisations have come together and on the 4th of March there's going to be the biggest, hopefully the biggest, but a major national health service demonstration, our NHS, it's organised jointly by the People's Assembly and health campaigns together and has again broad support from across the movement. So I hope you can support both of those events. Please do get involved in the People's Assembly because together we're stronger and we need the broadest movement possible to fight the Tories and fight against austerity, but we know that with broad movements and organised within our communities we can win. Thank you very much and I hope you enjoy the film. Ken is one of the great cultural figures of contemporary Britain. He's an incredibly prolific filmmaker. His films have always been controversial because they've always challenged the inequalities and the injustice of the miseries of modern Britain. His socially critical directing style and his socialist ideals are evident in the film treatment of social issues in general, poverty, homelessness and labour rights amongst others. For many years the establishment has tried to keep him down, but he's irrepressible. He keeps bouncing back and he's here tonight. Wow, it's such a pleasure to be here. I got to pretend that I'm not a huge fan. Well as you have seen that film is just incredible and the reason I couldn't watch it before this chat is I knew I couldn't. I wouldn't be able to be in a state to formulate sentences properly. The film is just so incredibly powerful and it's almost hard to watch at times. I wanted to ask you what was your inspiration behind this film and what made you pick the subject and also did you do a lot of research? Well, first of all, thanks for asking me to come and thanks for coming everybody. It's rather overwhelming to be here really, so thanks a lot for that. Paul Laverte the writer and I, he lived in Scotland and I live in down here and we exchange messages every day about this and that and what's going on in the world and we found we were increasingly sending each other stories of about sanctions, about food banks, about how people were really being treated in the most cruel way when really they just needed help and how the whole idea of the welfare state had been turned on its head. So instead of support there was punishment and how it was reverting to the old Paul Law where people were set up to fail so that they were an example to others that this is what is in store if you don't do as we tell you. So that transformation just seemed more and more significant. So we went on a little trip we went to, first of all we went to my hometown of Nuneaton in the Midlands which is a industrial town and the first day we went the first within an hour we met a 19-year-old lad who was not getting any benefits other than housing benefits and he was in a room provided by a charity which was paid for by his housing benefits and he existed on casual work, a bit of work to an agency, a bit of the black economy, he just got by and he was in a room that had a mattress on the floor in one corner and a fridge in the other corner and that was it and Paul said to him he said can we be really cheeky and see what's in your fridge and the lad said yeah and he opened the door and there was nothing in the fridge there was nothing it's not a thing and Paul said you ever go hungry and he said yes he said the previous week he hadn't eaten for three days and I thought this this was incredible this is a story that is happening to tens of hundreds of thousands of people so anyway so we did we then obviously went into in depth and the big issue was as you can imagine that you're confronted by a mass of bureaucracy a mass of regulations of documents and hundreds of stories and and obviously some people suffer more than others and but it was wherever we went we went to London we went to the Midlands, we went to Stoke, we went to Nottingham, we went to the Northwest, we went to Bolton, we went to the Northeast which is where we eventually did it, we went to Glasgow and everywhere was the same story and so Paul wrote a character and then you wrote another character and off we went wow well I think I think you often really explore lives that are quite rarely seen in cinema and I for one was so pleased to see this story being told and so many of my friends are going through what Daddy Blake's going through they're having their lives completely destroyed and you know currently a lot of my friends and myself included with lifelong conditions are now being reassessed we used to be given lifetime awards because that would that was considered scientific but now the government have decided that we all need to be reassessed so they are they're wasting millions of pounds you know because I send someone around my house every every few years to say are you still wobbly I'll be like how about I give you a wet shave and we'll find out I'm so grateful that there are directors and people like you who are using the you know art form of film to cover these stories and I'm really interested in what politicized you in your life like was that an event or a moment that made you feel like you wanted to use art as a force for social change or was it a process or was it a burning desire from from a young age it was a process really I mean I so we went to school in the 40s and early 50s which was very quiet time um from this little industrial town in the midlands managed to get to a university and it was only there that I I was aware of class because it was one of the posh ones and it was there were there were there were young men there there were young men there who had inherited the world and they had sports cars that I've never seen before and they they had they talked about it now as a sense of entitlement but they had a sense of entitlement they went and been to the right schools they were the sons of empire builders and they were going to inherit the world and they they behaved as that they would and they did they have and it was the Bullingdon club and all the obnoxious people who take part in it and I was suddenly aware of this of this level of society um which I'd never encountered before I mean no Nathan there's there's barely a lower middle class never mind anything else and um so it was it was very exotic and then um I joined the BBC um in the early 60s and worked with writers and that was this significant thing I worked with um wonderful writers one in particular man called Jim Allen who was a great socialist writer working Irish backgrounds um worked in Manchester was lived in Manchester he um he was one of that dying breed well he was dying then I think is probably not so not so common now of of people who would go to work in find work in order to founded a union branch well so he was he was a building worker he was a dock worker he was a miner he started a newspaper in the mines he he'd he'd go to a building site he'd get people organised and then he'd be chased off by the foreman you know and great guy very funny man um and he wrote I did a lot of films with him and um and and I learned a lot from him I mean he was he was a one of these working class men who who was completely self-taught I mean he in his room he would had one work one wall full of books and unlike me he'd read them all and and was was was terrific um and um he always suspected me of bourgeois tendencies so but um if he in order to reestablish his proletarian credentials he'd take his teeth out if he were having a disagreement and put them on the table and challenged me to do likewise um but you know what wonderful man Jim Allen and um but there's Barry Hines um and Paul Lavattie for the last 20 odd years and and um but it was those early that early writing which again the 60s were very political yeah and we were all um when joined the Labour Party to to uh support Harold Wilson in 63 as the thing I joined and 64 was the election um and it took us a couple of years to see through Harold Wilson and to see that actually it wasn't about changing society at all and um so then there were it was the time of the anti-Stalinist left that came to prominence and which of course there were many different groups and uh most of us joined one group or another or were sympathetic and and in that was very interesting because it was rigorous politically and every week you'd be given a a text read it by Friday we're going to discuss it and woe beside you if you hadn't read it and so for a few years I mean every week I read something and and it was a political grounding that actually is a phrase Jim Allen used to use he'd say you need political theory as a map and a compass if you haven't got that you don't know the course you need to steer and I think that that was very true have you ever found your politics have made films harder for you like obtaining funding um have you come up against obstacles um a lot in for the first 30 years or so yes um the last 20 have been quite lucky um which um because we've had European partners most of that time 25 years actually we've been very lucky because we've got French co-producers Belgians other countries and what's great about them is is that they they tend to respect films in the way they don't hear so if you've got a like a British co-producer they'll they'll maybe have comments about the script that you don't want to hear so they say what about this as the other and we say well the French like that particularly so you'd say so in a way that that's um put into the criticism out of court um but the decade the worst decade was the 80s right um because I've tried to do documentaries then in the middle of the Thatcher onslaught right and they got they got banned wow that's a compliment isn't it yes yes they were banned I think I got all together we got we got um four films banned all together two films um taken out of the schedules and delayed until they were useless um I got a theater production banned um everything I couldn't I couldn't direct traffic in the ages um well you were the uni here and I think we all just think you're really cool for that um I don't want to hug you all to myself that I wouldn't say um if anyone's got any contributions or questions or comments um we can like have you throughout the evening I don't don't know for the channel and we do at the end like not important so do people want to put their hand up I sound like a teacher um um hello yesterday guy here um this is like a question time but yes great okay I will take a girl and look back on stuff I'm I'm Mark Robinson I work here at CISD a fantastic movie Ken I'm a lifelong lifelong fan um and you might tell from the accent I'm from the area where you set the movie um one of the things in your movies all of them that is remarkable are the cast and I think that's really true in this movie um I'm the same age as Dave Jones um and I'm from South Shields one of the themes that always comes across I believe is their but for the grace of God go why and I think when you've got a job and you've got a little bit of family and support people can think that that couldn't happen to them or it doesn't apply to them so my question and point really is you know I think it applies to everybody because it really could happen to somebody out the blue and whether you share that thought absolutely I think that's I think that was one of the points we wanted to make we wanted to find characters who were not obvious losers you know because the the the stereotype is oh well you know they're lazy they're feckless um it's a woman with too many children it's um it's a it's someone who's addicted you know and so he's what do you expect and so we wanted to to to find characters not not to say that of course everyone needs to be treated with dignity and respect and and helped of course whatever their circumstances but we didn't want to give the right wing an easy an easy put down so the characters um it like as you say almost everybody's a few paychecks away from disaster and uh and he's at the older end of the labor market so it's not going to be easy to find a job he's got a he's a fine craftsman but it's not a a craft that is particularly valued now um and absolutely could be anybody um and uh and it is anybody we met when we were doing research we met a little woman in a Glasgow food bank who was as neat and precise as you could wish you know you saw walking down the street you think wow she's really you know woman of some dignity and presence and really takes care of herself um she came into the food bank and almost wanted to leave because she was so ashamed to be there um and her so much she'd been um she again had become ill she was in her early sixties she'd worked all her life she was um she'd worked in the supermarkets at the checkout she'd done you know that kind of work but a very a very um somebody was very comfortable with herself I mean she wasn't she was a lovely woman and and she'd had an illness she'd fallen down they she hadn't been they they'd given her the sack because actually they wanted somebody younger um she'd um she'd had a family she'd supported her younger children so she hadn't got any money left herself um she could she was probably going to have to move out of her house so all her money was going into rent and she she was starving this woman is 62 had worked all her life you know another man came to the door at the same time and and he he came in and and was obviously deeply in shock in finding himself where he was and just went away and they tried to catch him and said come on back you know we can help you and and he was oh god it's always wise why is it me that's terrible you see if I had another mic on you wouldn't have heard it that's how popular you are I know no it's really embarrassing talk there was a woman up at the back um with a hand up yes um do you have something you'd like to say yeah there's a mic on the way hi my name is Mercel I um run an organization called chatterbox which provides uh conversation practice classes for language students at SOAS some of you may know I've already um I'm going to echo what the gentleman said just an astoundingly beautiful portrayal of reality and so moving um my question is um it was sort of inspired when you mentioned that you come from Nanitun um and I know that sounds particularly well because one of my university housemates was from that area and I would looked with horror as it turned blue two elections ago do you know why that is why did that happen in towns like Nanitun um I think this is a very I mean this is a very important question really um and I think it's I think it's um alienation despair feeling no one cares about about you feeling your voice hasn't heard um and feeling that the Labour Party of that for decades has really looked the other way um has let industries have died and there's been no replacement um and it's um I think it's it's it's typical of many places in in the in the depressed areas um maybe that's the west well it's the middle of the Midlands it's two in the west Midlands two in we all know the places where where it's our equivalent of the Rust Belt um and I think I think in all the discussions about that that don't be really understanding it to me and I don't know if people here agree to me it goes back to at least goes back to the Thatcher Reagan um counterrevolution really where not kind of really but the big shift to the neoliberal politics where they said capitalism has got to go full steam ahead without regulation wherever however it has to make money that's what we should allow um so the investments can be taken from this place and put where the labour is cheap um we need to make laws against trade unions so people have no defence um and capitalism has to rip there was a whole school of economists wasn't of the Chicago school they tested it out in in Latin America in different countries there um and that's what they pursued ruthlessly they allowed unemployment to go through the roof from half a million or less below two or three million within a year so suddenly there was chaos suddenly everything collapsed and we've lived with that at different levels ever since and and that's that's the root of it and at the same time the Labour Party went um from Blair through well accommodated to Thatcher Neil Kinnock played a dishonourable role in kicking the getting rid of the left in the Labour Party and going along with the broad principles of Thatcherism and Blair of course was the ultimate example and Brown followed suit and people thought well they're all the same they're all the same so when when someone comes along and says do you know what it's not your fault it's the person next to you they're to blame they've taken your job yeah they look different they've got a different language and it's the old siren calls simplistic answers to a complex problem and of course the I mean the left is I think is now beginning to get the right answers under Jeremy Corbyn but it's it's a long struggle but I think that that's where it goes back to to my mind and um and you meet I mean I meet people there um and and they're just angry and they don't know quite why they're angry but they just feel a sense of disillusion I wanted to just ask you about austerity in general because I've done a lot of work with the people's assembly against austerity who are a lot of primary voice in this country against austerity they did great work but I've really come to believe that austerity is then about saving money I think it has a much more sinister edge and I think it's really about trying to create a culture where there is no compassion or social responsibility or support network basically America um and I think it uses the um devices uh politics of fear and hate to sow seeds among us of division so that we blame each other we turn against each other and I really believe it's part of this wider shift to create a society where the state has no role and I I believe that politics is is ideas basically in the world we set um by ideas and I think we have to fight these what an idea and I just wondered um what your thoughts were on on the agenda behind austerity and what you how how can we fight that disgusting value system and reclaim a society where our governments are proud to invest in people in health in education and yeah absolutely um yes amen to all that I think um as you're right it's based on an ideology and the the ideological base I think is that um that capitalism is progressive and that in order for it to develop it must it must penetrate every aspect of our lives so that what we saw as a public service is not is not to be funded by us it's it's to be it's best um it's best organized by private companies that we have a personal relationship with so you take out a private insurance company and they they provide private health care and um and and that's the way it should be I mean it's also the the the demands of capital itself to to to expand it can never find equilibrium I mean I'm sure there are better scholars here than I am but that's that's as I understand it they have to expand they they never reach a point at which we say okay we're making enough money um our markets are secure we'll just keep doing what we're doing they can't do that they have to expand they have to take over another company they have to find another market they have to cut their labor costs they have to attack the raw materials so that they're cheaper so to maintain their market share so in order to maintain their market share they're constantly having to attack the working class they're constantly having to have an aggressive foreign policy to have a sphere of influence in which their product will will will will be sold yes so they're constantly on the attack and and that means that they're constantly expanding and if they if they're producing everything that it can be produced they've got to get into the services yes so they've got the railways now and so they've got to they've got to get into now health you know and the area I mean I live in the southwest now they've just voted to allow Richard Branson to look after social care and some aspects of social care Richard Branson he needs another island obviously in the Caribbean I mean what a disgrace that we cannot between ourselves look after each other except we've got to someone has to make a profit that's the I think that's the ideological and just one thing to add to that so therefore to stop people challenging that they have to say if you're poor it's your fault if you haven't got a job you are to blame you haven't filled in your CV price right you haven't you've been five and it's late for an appointment you've you're inadequate you're not competent in order to demonstrate that we now have to punish you and because we know when sanctions happen as you were saying people's lives are in chaos absolutely in chaos and they can't eat yeah so hunger is the weapon and you have to you have to ask them I've been waiting for a chance to ask this I've they never I've never managed to get up against one of them yet have to ask them what is the crime for which hunger is the punishment because they know what they're doing they know what they're doing yeah totally um as a wobbly woman I really think that thickness and disability presents a really big problem for capitalism because they require compassion and imagination and empathy and I think in a system which tries to view human beings with economic commodity and like cogs in a machine well those who are different and have different bodies and different health issues um some of them can't be cogs in a machine so I kind of think um disability and sickness really is like um well in a way a spanner in the works I don't think this system knows what to do because if it admits that we should be caring and compassionate to people with health and it needs then we should be caring and compassionate to everybody so I think this system really does not know how to handle um health issues in any meaningful way but you see that's why they like charities they love charities the queen is patron of them or you know the more family I mean they love it they love it and they get knighted for it and they get they get peerages and because they like it's the old image of the lady of the manner going round on Christmas morning with sweets around the cottages for the tied workers that's that's their image that's how they solve all these issues nothing to do with what we can do collectively it's charity and that's why that's why charities are so I would say dangerous because they make acceptable what is unacceptable and and they're a cover and of course when you're faced with people who are in desperate need of course everyone is going to contribute and of course you can't walk by and of course you know we do charity you do charity gigs I'm sure and redo and if you know put on the screening whatever and and raise money and of course you can't walk by but that's what they love you know that's their answer but it's a past the hat round societies they're what they want Mr. Loach thank you very much for that powerful film that you've made and the true story that tells about our society speaking of compassion and also power I think one of the in my opinion one of the powerful sort of underlying yes subtle I think messages that I pick up from your film is how individualistic our society is and how the community has been completely abolished in a greater system where the state becomes our main and only core authority for our social relations and money basically so I don't know if that was one of the sort of deeper messages that you were trying to get at but I'd love your comments on how the concept of family and the concept of community was missing in the story of these characters well it's interesting that because in a way it seemed to us it seemed to us that that in a way there were two there were two conflicting images of community that there were the the people who ran the food bank and you know the his neighbors and who in a way were and the people at work and his work community was you know it was very it was just you know the guys at work really and and the crack and the jokes and the thing between them that is very sustaining the the his neighbors and the people at the food bank and they were wonderful and that that's the actual women who ran that food bank and two or three men and brilliant and what there was one thing that just epitomized their kindness to me is that when you I mean you may may well volunteer some of you and take part but but what touched me touched all of us was when the woman said when she asked her to to go around with her she didn't say come and let me give you some food she said let me help you with your shopping and such a such a little thing but what what's you know what a lot it means and in preserving someone's dignity brilliant and the state which in an ideal world would represent the best of us would represent that of course is its absolute reverse you know so you you got those two images like conflicting and there was a lady up there hi I'm Claire from invisible women with visible and invisible disabilities um first of all I'd like to thank Ken for coming to the vigil for Lawrence Bond in in Camden outside Kensington Job Center on 25th of January it was Lawrence Bond's funeral today and he was a local man who collapsed and died of a suspected heart attack on leaving Kensington Job Center and he had been cut off ESA for around six months and had been refused at mandatory reconsideration and was waiting for his appeal and so that there's more information about about about the campaign for him on the invisible Facebook page and there's a lot of organizations Camden momentum and others Kilburn unemployed workers group involved and at that at that vigil we also remembered Lillian Olluk and her two-year-old daughter Lynn who had starved to death in Kent and they were not claimants in the benefit system they were seeking asylum and the asylum seekers were the first to be made destitute um under labor and um so we remembered them and that's now the standard for everybody and John McDonnell who also came to the vigil he was opposed to the work capability assessment from 2006 when it was a labor bill and when there was a disability demonstration at the Manchester labour conference where we were inside the ring of steel and he was the only MP to come and speak to us and of course now is joined by Jeremy Corbyn who's supported a lot of the demos and I think it's really important for us to keep in touch because there's another there's another cut coming which is the cut to ESA driving people in the work-related activity group down to job seekers level and um a loss of 30 pounds and also with the work-related activity group there's people who've died from being cut off but there's also thousands of people who've died from the compulsory back-to-work activities people with cancer hot conditions and so on and just with what Francesca was saying on um being wobbly being a challenge to society um you know we've always said that disability coping with disability is very hard work and whether or not we do wage work on top we're already working oh there are seven in the hand okay over there thank you for that film I watched it a few months ago I was very moved by it I was in tears at key particular scenes I would like to say um um you are a master of cinema I'm I love cinema I'm studying it at Ravensbourne and you came and spoke before I arrived at the college so you you make really powerful films that film is really I I see a lot of people crying I was in tears the first time I was almost in tears the second time really in power powerful emotive film a big brick at the Tories um I was going to ask um I was going to ask a question but maybe I'll throw it out to later um what's a good way of being a better writer and can I push that question aside um a better writer for cinema and telling powerful stories at the same time I'm not an academic I'm a filmmaker um I want to tell stories I realize uh the quote left is currently losing the argument in terms of the popular mass society or even the mainstream we need I agree with you a thousand percent I've watched Adam Curtis documentary since for the last five years um I mean I I think um we need to we need to tell a new story and include the best parts of what we have and reach for something better a better new alternative to what is going on now we do have Trump reaching for old ideas he's reaching in his back pocket for some old 1930s or even some corporate authoritarianism which I think you've said in interviews that's I really don't like that I am I I'm neither left or right I must say I'm I'm for the progressive of humans all together I want to avert any form of uh violence being enacted on people um and that's I guess that's sort of the point of society is that I was thinking of the meaning of life anyway uh what what new alternative for the future could we ask for or expect or push through because remember when all these um with Martin Luther not only was he doing um uh was he against racism he was also uh helping uh the day he died or the week he died he was helping rubbish workers um he was helping a union we must push for something better a better alternative rather than and and it can be done with telling stories well it's um it's a complicated um series of issues I think you you bring up there really what's the answer well I think it's it's disentangling the the question a bit I mean change yes I mean of course we all want to see change how can we deal with the pressing problems that we face housing poverty work sustainable work everyone having a place in society overarching questions like the climate the destruction of the planet how do we do that I I think I mean I've got a very traditional answer really which is that we have to plan it plan it plan the planet um because otherwise if you leave it to the alternative which is the free market um it will go it will it's on its way so we have to plan how we use the world the earth resources we have to plan how we divide up the work we have to plan what we produce and so on you can't plan what you don't own you know we can't plan for g4s or we can't plan virgin we can't plan you know the big corporations so they have to become ours and we have to and how do we decide what the plan is well we have to have some sort of democracy how do we get there well what's the powerful what's the most powerful force in the world I still think the working classes because nothing moves without it's moved by people who work for a living or nothing is made or nothing is sold or nothing in the shops so that that I think it's the traditional answer but I think that is the powerful force and it's why apart from the fact they have the best jokes apart from the fact they're the nicest people that's why the working class is important you know because they have the power so I think it's about organizing that it's about the political engagement and it's enormously complicated and complex and strategic and tactical on the day-to-day basis but it's how we harness that strength so I think it's an old traditional answer comrades but I think that's that's the only way really and my second question how do you become a better writer you work with writers was briefly he raised the question regarding how to become a better writer you haven't asked that question how do you become a better writer I didn't I'm not a writer I think that's really important that film directors are not writers and I respect writers hugely the ones that I know best the best ones are the ones who listen listen listen how people speak I mean first of all you got to find a story a good story and it seems to me a good story is one where there's an inner conflict an inner contradiction that you have to tease out and do it truthfully and accurately and with observation we've got to tease out that story and when you do it and it'd be quite small but if you've got the right story it has a significance beyond the that little narrative so it's I mean this is just a little story yes but you hope that it has a significance beyond these two characters and so I think that's finding the story and and listening to people how they speak you know really capture the rhythm of how they speak because it's always unexpected you know they don't speak like most writers write they just speak differently so I think listening enjoy language you know the best writers really love language so I think it's those two things I mean I don't know there's lots of ways I don't know I was saying that can we on the left broadly speaking ever find a solution to the problem that I call the BBC in terms of the way they portray or not these issues and then attack people who address them yeah that was one my question yeah basically not I wouldn't slightly put the addition to that they're not just a BBC but how do we tackle the corporate media machine I know this is a perennial conversation that we have the left like how do we how do we like counter that level of propaganda you know they have all the money of the media outlets and they push their narratives then you know how do we start to challenge that and and get a better narrative about her I mean God knows it's hugely difficult I think I think there's two things to say I mean first of all in the long term and of course you can't do this until the labor under Corbyn for example might be in power is the left has never had a media policy and I think the first one you've got to we've got to start talking about the freedom of the press yes and separating that from the freedom of big corporations to own it because obviously they will pursue their own interests so we I would say that that's a newspaper to own a national newspaper or to own a newspaper there has to be it has to be a cooperative and it has to be a cooperative journalist and print workers and everybody involves and maybe with readers there's got to be there's got to be a cooperative ownership not owned by corporation only one you can only each cooperative could only own one newspaper or tv station or whatever you only have one but in the meantime and also you've got to democratize the BBC because the BBC I mean make no mistake is an arm of government it's an arm of the state it's like the police it's like the established church and so on it is an arm of the state and it's controlled by political appointments and and there's a saying there that is what can we get away with which is what journalists or writers or program makers say you know what can we get away with and I think it has to be democratized and power has to be at the bottom and obviously there's got to be all kinds of reflections of elected power and community power bases and trade unions and workplaces we've got to divide the system of a democratic system not easy but it could be done but in the short term now I've turned my phone off I can give you a number if I turn it back on where you can you can phone and if I mean this is just just to make you feel better and and to and and they do read the daily log I know now you can phone this number and you don't you get the first thing you get a you press option one which I think is make a comment about the BBC and then then you go to another three more choices and there's make a make a criticism say something approving or then make a complaint now you go to option three and you get really run this oh yeah and you get put through to a nice person in in the north of Ireland and then why it's Ireland but it is and and they write it down and they put it on the log now just do it from time to time when when you hear when you hear you know like questions based on false assumptions when you hear one side given and not the other when you hear the left discounted but when you hear a trade unionist being asked why are you holding the public to ransom you know that's the usual one instead of what's the justice of your claim you know whenever you feel that's crossed the line give them a ring right hang on I'm not very good at handling this equipment as you will have noticed but oh god it's searching for network no I'm done that I'll be let's talk about something else for a moment and I'll come back I'd be funny to pick up quickly because we've mentioned Joreen Corbyn a few times yes and you and I have spoken at a few JC for PM events because I think we both feel that he's a real political alternative and probably the most progressive Labour leader we've ever had um and I certainly feel that men like Corbyn don't normally get into power I see it like a glitch in the matrix you know it happened because it won't happen again and so I feel that it's so important that we stay united behind them in support because I do think he presents a rare opportunity and I think if he goes I think the powers that they will make sure that we don't get another leader like him again um so I really wanted to ask you about the issue of unity because so often left fragment into different groups and that weakens our chances of success and of winning and particularly the last few weeks we've had Brexit and a lot of people have strong emotions and they can't let this issue and I understand all the feelings but my overriding feeling is we've got to stay united because you know what the right are so bloody united they're so good at loyalty and they're sticking to the bigger picture and I think we've got to reclaim those values on the left I will start ranting now but um uh what's your thought on unity how can we how can we encourage people to focus on what we share not on what we don't big question and first of all if you got penciled this is a number it's it's 037 00 1 00 222 037 00 100 222 it's worth a shout now and then because you do feel better for it I tell you particularly on the today program okay um good on on the important matter I think that this is very interesting um and and the question of unity I mean it seems to me that that thought I mean this is an absolutely extraordinary opportunity I think it's the first time certainly the first time in my lifetime and I think it's the first time in the whole history of the Labour Party that there's a leader of the party who will stand alongside workers in struggle he went to the stood on with the junior doctors on picket lines he went to the steel workers in south wales when they were threatened with closure he's openly supported the um the drivers on southern rail no other Labour leader ever does it not a milliband not any never does it and to actually identify yourself with that struggle I think it's absolutely extraordinary is the first Labour leader as I understand it who has actually now wants to circumscribe the capital the interests of capital yeah to actually take take reduce their power even Clement Attlee the prime minister that established the welfare state in in his period sent troops in against strikers and the welfare state was in order to facilitate the good function of capital it was to provide a well housed a healthy workforce after the war and and good you know dependable energy dependable utilities transport that worked so but it wasn't to establish socialism so I think Corbyn is absolutely extraordinary and of course we know he's only there because the right was so arrogant that they thought well we'll give a left-winger like a pass on to the main competition because nobody will vote for him and we can also show how you know what a broad church we are and of course suddenly it backfired it backfired because the people didn't want Blair and Brown and the remnants of that social democratic party they wanted change so now the problem is that as far as I know the left even those who are not in the Labour Party and I'm not in the Labour Party yet but the groups are absolutely support Jeremy Corbyn support the left in the Labour Party of course there will be there will be critical support there will be people who are saying well we'd we'd prefer this and we'd prefer that but that's fine I mean that's part of our debate on the left but there's everyone would actually support Jeremy on the left and John McDonald absolutely but what we're left with is this rump that came into into politics under Blair or just before him and voted for the privatisation of the health service voted wouldn't repeal the trade union laws supported privatisation when Labour privatised the what should the the air traffic control whatever supported that privatisation most of them voted for the illegal war so they are they are committed to the politics of the Labour right and they have a sense of entitlement they feel the party is theirs so there's a visceral hatred of the left there's a determination to get the party back and they will do it seems to me they will stop at nothing to get rid of him yeah there's a it's very interesting there's an evening standard tonight if you look on page four there's an interview about talking about Corbyn and whether he win he can sustain his position there's a quotation from a Labour MP unnamed of course because they're such cowards unnamed he's saying we've stopped attack you'll find it it's on page four the evening standard we've stopped attacking Jeremy now so if he fails it's his own fault meanwhile of course leaking that quote so of course they haven't stopped attacking him at all I mean there are one or two outriders like there's the bloke from Bermondsey who attacked Jeremy Corbyn for supporting our film because he said what a waste to tell people with no money they've got to go and spend 10 pounds of the cinema this is this is the depths of the Labour party in Parliament most of them they are well what an hour in Bevan said about the Tories I won't repeat this I mean they are they are determined to destroy him yeah and the only way we can fight back is to create the biggest movement I mean they treat late being Labour MPers those are job for life I mean they've got more job security than any of their constituents so I think I think we need everyone needs to get into the CLP whichever CLP it is makes certain that if they're if they're one of the 170 who opposed Jeremy Corbyn that they are not there at the next election yes that is the only way we can do it and they'll go up there waving frantically and I can't ignore him any longer can we get a mic up there please thank you and also I'm aware that we can't go on talking for too long otherwise we'll be the only people left in the cinema but we will have one more hello my name is Lenny and one of the cleanest of this university one of the precarious workers and also one of the source workers that is working under our company that this university contract for many years and also I'm a member of the SOAS Justice for SOAS Cleanest campaign which Ken Long has been in supporting for day one from me it's an honor to be here again I'm also in honor to represent my my colleagues I'm here on behalf of them to tell you thank you so much for for this powerful movies and also I would like to mention in 2006 after watching your movie Breton Ross was when become the inspiration of the campaign and since then we have been inspiration now because throughout the campaign we have chiefs the London Living Way Union recognition see pay holiday paid and after that or step has been followed by other fellow cleaners so I just wanted to thank you for to make this inspiring movies to all of us because which reflect the real lives what's happening only to migrant work happened to normal people like us and yes and also I would like to take the opportunity that on behalf of not only all the SOAS outside workers on also behalf all the work has been inspired by your movie and now a company across London to have an opportunity to have an event with you because that's what we want because your movies have been so powerful and also the campaign has been so inspiring at the moment we're still fighting because this university seems to not understand what outsourced mean outsourced mean injustice and exploitation and we want to finish with the outsourced because we don't want to feel any more injustice and exploitation for many years and thank you so much again for me it's a privilege again to watch this movie and God bless you thank you thank you well what can I say I think that the big the next big step is to get all the workers in house so that there's no outsourcing that's the big demand can I also encourage all the students here to support justice for cleaners because they're fighting a fight for all of us that working conditions so it's really important to get behind them and to be part of their fights I'm aware that time is ticking I think we might have time for one more question um oh my goodness is that oh god I hate thinking so I cut down she wins okay go because once our lecture mentioned that you are against cinematic hegemony so firstly I want to hear more about this and then the second question is about your understanding of the independence of filmmaking yeah the independence of filmmaking right what was the first question uh yeah what did it call pre-hegemony yeah the the cinematic hegemony right yeah but it's just one time our tutor once mentioned it yeah and uh she mentioned that you are against cinematic hegemony but I haven't like hear more about this so I just curious about this yeah so basically it's her teacher correct yes well well I think the tutor is I don't usually use those long words but the tutor's dead correct um well I mean it's it's another reflection of what we were saying earlier of a reflection against the the class struggle isn't it of um of how do you tackle that that power um and I think we we we have to begin where people are we have to begin with demands for secure work you know which again I think the Labour Party is getting towards with John McDonald's commitment to public investment in in regions where there is no work a public investment and I would hope the public ownership of those that work that those those indices that are established and then you start to eat away and it's about building an organised working class that that means strong trade unions because in the end we can win you know as um as Shelly said they are we are many they are few you know we can win it's a question of organising of being international of recognised I mean this is a big big question of recognising that workers in other countries are on our side that because the the willing class set tries to set as you were saying earlier they tried to set against against each other you know the migrant is your enemy no no the migrants are part on our side they're part of our struggle and and together we are exploited by the same people so yes it's it's understanding the international nature of the working class and organising internationally trade unions are very good at sloganising about internationalism but too often it's about British jobs for British workers you know what a what a terrible slogan that is it's got to be international so I think that you know it's obviously there's a lot to say and cleverer people than me will say it but you know that that's how we begin I think um independent filmmaking well it's be a lovely thing really I mean some you get lucky when you've been around a long time you get like a a pensioner's season ticket where they allow you to continue but but um but otherwise it's a real struggle and the sad thing is there are so many brilliant young filmmakers that I'm I'm meeting many events who who are obviously talented and you know there are always talented people talented actors talented writers absolutely who who are who don't get the chance that we got in television because television is now so formulaic you know there are now so many people above you in television there's the story editors there's the there's the uh the producers the executive producers the co-producers the heads of channel the heads of this the head of pencils the head of everything the head of and they all have a they all have something to say you know they all want to know well you know and they suggest you do this and they suggest you do that because they don't make a suggestion what's their job they've got no job so it's there is this inverted pyramid telling you how to function and it squeezes the originality out so so that's something else when we democratize the bbc we'll give the money to the program makers you know easy lots of things there's lots of big struggles but the overriding what you were right the overriding one is the tactical thing immediately is to keep the left leadership in the labor party because we have the chance one chance in a lifetime and that includes your lifetimes probably one chance in the lifetime to have a mass party led by a socialist don't let it go yeah don't let it go yeah thanks a lot thanks a lot well you will rush off i just want to thank you so much for coming and i also want to say on your way out there'll be a bucket collection for the people's assembly against austerity they are an amazing organization they were a big part in Corbyn's leadership success they've really put anti-austerity on the agenda but as a word they have no corporate donors surprise so if you could spare any pennies please give generously and i just want to say you thank you to Colote um you are not only a filmmaker and an amazing director you are someone who inspires love and hope everywhere you go i'm sure and i just want to thank you from everyone from all of us uh i think i'm not alone in saying that it's so important to have art out there that reflects our times and that shows us a better way forward um so thank you so much for being you and for giving us hope in humanity thank you thank you thanks a lot