 Hello, everybody, and we're so glad that you're here today to join us for this program. This is part of a series that we're doing in diversity, equity, and inclusion. We began it in the fall. It's called Come Sit At My Table, and I'm Dr. Christine Taylor, I serve as the Vice President and Associate Provost for Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion here. Today's topic is pre-coping, surviving and thriving in a time of uncertainty, and we're going to get into that in just a moment, but I do want to give you a couple of housekeeping details. Today's program will be recorded, and we'll post it on our website once we're able to get translated to do that. You'll be able to post questions in the chat function, and we'll get to as many of them as possible. Also a reminder that on Tuesday of next week at one o'clock, we'll begin a program called How to Be an Effective Ally. Dr. Mary Adams Trujillo will be joining us. And then next Thursday, June 11th, marks the day that Malone and Hood integrated the University of Alabama as students, and we have Dr. Cully Clark and Dr. Art Dunning, who will be guest. Dr. Cully Clark wrote the book about the standing in the schoolhouse store, and Art Dunning is a higher education professional, an African-American man who is in the second cohort of students to come to our campus, and he actually walked on to the teams. So you'll enjoy that conversation as well. All of these programs began at one o'clock. So to shift to today's program, I'm so delighted to have two very, very important guest members of our campus community to join us today to address this essential topic of how we cope in the midst of everything that's going on. And my guests today are Jen Turner and Dr. Martha Krauber. Thank you so so much for coming and joining us today. I would like to ask if you would first just tell our audience a little bit about yourselves and then we'll get into some Q and A. Dr. Krauber, if we could start with you and then move to Jen. Absolutely. Good afternoon, everyone. Again, my name is Dr. Martha Krauber. I am from San Francisco. I was born in Columbia, Mississippi, but it's six weeks, moved to San Francisco. So consider the West Coast home. I have my educational background. I went to UC Berkeley undergrad, undergrad degree in psychology. I have a master's in public health with a focus in chronic disease epidemiology from Yale and my PhD with a focus in clinical psychology from Duke. I've done two fellowships and one in aging. The aging is my broad specialty in minority health and aging. Let's see. I am currently a professor in two departments, the Department of Community Medicine and Population Health and Family Internal and Rural Medicine within the College of Community Health Sciences. I'm also a practicing clinical psychologist and I see patients two days a week in two different settings in family medicine and also in our psychiatry and behavioral health setting. I have been at UA for the last 20 years with, well, on and off for 20 years. I was at UA B for four, so I've been at UA for 16. All right. I'll turn it over to you, Jen. Hi. I'm Jennifer Jen Turner and I'm originally from Birmingham. I did my undergraduate degree here in history with a minor in political science and I thought I was going to go to law school and tell them the middle of the LSAT I was like, this is not for me. I spent a couple of years trying to figure out what I wanted to do, came back, went through our counselor education program, and in doing so became a licensed professional counselor. Errors, especially marriage and family and substance abuse, graduated, worked in local mental health for many years, hit Mississippi, hit Demopolis, Alabama, hit Montgomery, Alabama, then found my way back to university where I work at our counseling center. I'm Coronary and Clinical Services. I've been here since 2003. And so I work with students. We do individual and group services for students and a student is anyone who is taking an hour as far as we're concerned. We also act as the consult of arm for many people on campus. So for instance, if you have a concern about a student or you're not quite sure how to address that, you can call us and consult with us and we'll kind of help steer you in the correct way to go. So yeah. Great. So thank you both for coming. I don't know about everybody else who's joined us on this call, but I am personally exhausted. It started with COVID, zoom aromas out. It's gone to a whole next level and then we add to it the tragedy of the murder of Mr. George Floyd and my slip-ins on the loft, I found myself a little tense. I'm probably visiting the fridge more than I ought. So I'm stressed a lot and I hear that across the country and across my friends that I talk with colleagues on the campus. Is this a normal response to everything that we're dealing with and how do we make ourselves work through this? How do we get from that surviving to thriving? It is a normal response. And so let me start a little bit with COVID and I know we're recording, but I have a tendency to talk with my hands. So I'm going to talk with my hands. For our students in particular or students across the board, there was this abrupt ending of the year. During spring break and initially thinking we were returning from spring break. So people didn't necessarily get a chance to say goodbye for those students who will be sophomores, juniors, seniors. Then there were of course our students who were planning on graduating. They didn't get to celebrate their graduation. And then recently, right before everything happened, unfortunately with Mr. Ford's death, I've had a lot of students who've been very concerned about canceled internships because that's what they were counting on for the summer credit funds, that kind of thing. Not to mention those who recently graduated being concerned about employment. So yes, that's one gigantic stressor. And we are asked to stay home and be safe. And that's another big gigantic stressor because you're, you know, our young adult who now may be living at home with your parents again for the first time and really can't leave the house. And so they're adjusting to you being a young adult. Or you may be sheltering in place here and your parents are let's say in Alaska or New Jersey. And so you feel isolated and alone because you're separated from the family. Now the reason I mentioned that is because for a lot of our students in particular, this is their first major life event. You know, and what I mean by that is first major sort of life event that is not necessarily the most positive. And also to kind of shaking of sort of the idea of stability. Then unfortunately, we have the things that started to accumulate three weeks ago. And I say the things that started to accumulate because those things have always been there. It's just that it became very apparent partially because everybody is in one place. And so they're very active on news and social media and things were kind of hitting in a very rapid place. The passing, the aggressive statements, the videos. And then unfortunately, you know, I'm just going to say it for 24 hours initially was seen like the playing of over and over again a booster of 40s death. That's a brutal. And you know, assaultive. So for a lot of students, believe it or not, they understood racism existed, but this was their first in their face confrontation of it. And also to you have to remember that even though there have been problems in our country for a very long time and the last few years have been tumultuous, prior to that most of our students, particularly the ones 20 and under, they grew up doing the hope years. They grew up when they heard a lot of conversations about hope when President Obama was in the White House. This is a stark difference from what they grew up learning. For those of us who have been around for a minute, it was like, oh, yeah, not again. You know, in all honesty, it's like, let me take a deep breath. And so, you know, acknowledging that one, this is going on and that you one may be feeling very, very bad, that you one don't know what to do, that you're feeling very overwhelmed is one thing. The other interesting thing is, and this happens all the time with students, there is a disconnect for them sometimes, for some of them, where there's not a personal connection or a personal response. So they feel bad because they don't feel the same way that the people around them are feeling, because they haven't necessarily, they've been fortunate enough to grow up in what I call a bubble to a certain degree, that they haven't had to experience certain things and they haven't had friends who've experienced certain things, you know, the bubble of privilege either due to race or economics. All right. So let me ask for a second then. You've laid out some real interesting frames for how students might be focused on it. Dr. Cather, I'd like for you to speak perhaps about what you're saying around how those, as Jen said it so graciously, those of us who've been around for a while, how we're dealing with this or what have you observed in that framework? You'll need to unmute. OK, I think I got it this time. Sorry about that. Jen did do a lovely job laying out some of the issues, particularly that are coming up with our undergraduate population. The items that she talked about that are consistent with those of us who have been around for a while would be, it could be, social isolation. So we have been, many people have been sequestered and now that things have lifted some, people are still choosing to not go out everywhere. So there's still some issues, maybe with isolation or just feelings of fear and anger and a huge feeling of just what to do. So I kind of want to summarize and I know we'll get to these throughout the course of our talk. And that's acknowledged. People are really trying to acknowledge what's going on. And that may be difficult given that we all come from very different perspectives and backgrounds. So we each of us bring something different to the table when we think about COVID-19, when we think about as a backdrop to the racial issues that are happening. We know that those issues are higher amongst African-American populations and now we have this. So what I see amongst faculty and staff that I talk to and my patient population who are African-American is just a feeling of it's something else. It's not new. The racial issues aren't new. But I think this was so egregious that that part feels different. Again, with the backdrop of COVID-19. So the question is, well, what do we do and how do we move forward? With my non-minority or my non-African-American faculty, staff, and patients that I've interact with, the same question of how do we move forward comes up? And then what do you do so that you're not doing anything wrong? And that's a real concern. So people are trying to do the right thing and are trying to understand how to process what's going on now. So part of it you want to acknowledge, affirm, and act. We have to acknowledge that this is just really difficult for all of us. We have to affirm our feelings as Jim stated so eloquently. We're all feeling something. And again, we're feeling different things because we bring to the table very different perspectives. And that's okay. If you're feeling anger, if you're feeling isolation, if you're feeling fear, if you just feel uncertain, your feelings are legitimate. And that's okay. And then we have to talk about act. And I'm sure towards the end of our conversation, we'll get to things we can do to act and to help us with where we're feeling. But those are the kind of things that are coming up consistently. People really are just trying to figure out how to move forward. And I'm so thrilled to be a part of this discussion given to do together, or at least I'm hoping we can help facilitate the conversation of how do we move forward from here? One of the issues that's come up in the last couple of weeks is that everybody in the language I've used is that everyone has entered this experience with the death of George Floyd through different doors, depending on who you are, how you grew up, your race, ethnicity, on and on and on. How do we sort through all that? And particularly for those who I think perhaps might be more greatly impacted, and those perhaps who have a beginning awareness of some of the challenges that African Americans have experienced in this country, could you speak to that and how we might work around those pieces given the different dynamics? That's a really great question. So part of, I want to make sure we say that Jen and I provided a ton of resources that I know will be available to the audience. And I would strongly encourage everyone participating in this conversation, as well as those who are not here that we all engage with, is to make sure people are reading and listening multiple perspectives. So kind of taking a deep dive in and not assuming you talk to one person, and then that will tell you how to proceed and how to move forward. But that we all kind of take the time to make sure we really understand what's going on and then how to move forward from here. I had the fortune of working with clinically two African American men who are also fathers of African American men. And that has been a really interesting for me, kind of helping them figure out how to move forward was really important. And it was a hard place for them. So they talked about their own vulnerability, but also feeling vulnerable because they did not know how to protect their sons. And that's something that I think we all have to acknowledge that that's really difficult and hard to do. So part of it is we have to help people who are feeling vulnerable come up with some ideas. And I'll just mention a few. I want to make sure Jen has a chance to talk. Some things that I went over in my discussions with those particular patients, it may sound awful. I think it's important for all of us too, is to acknowledge the vulnerability again, kind of acknowledging how you, acknowledging the situation, affirming how you feel, and then putting steps in place. And some of those steps, which a lot of these men already do is making sure their sons understand where we are, what they need to do if they're encountered with situations that make them uncomfortable. Right, so just to make sure they have safety in place, but also to make sure they follow up with someone like Jenarai if needed to talk about these issues in more depth. And that's okay to say you need to talk to someone. And that's kind of what we're here for. And a piece of that is making sure they're healthy. Dr. Taylor, you had mentioned the stress that we're all experiencing. It is a part of that stress. We may be drinking things that we don't normally drink or drinking more of something that we don't normally drink outside of water. We may be eating things that we don't eat, but making sure we're being healthy is incredibly important to helping us figure out, let's see, it's part of how we move forward and how we move forward in a healthy way is taking care of ourselves. So to make sure we teach that to ourselves, as I mentioned to these men, they have to make sure they're healthy. They have to have their sons. And one of them actually loved that idea and followed up with me and said, he had started a running club with a few of his friends. How fabulous is that? And that was a way they could all do something that was positive, get some physical activity and it allowed them a way to de-stress. So I think that's really important again, kind of taking care of ourselves, admitting how we feel, taking care of ourselves physically, taking care of ourselves nutritionally, and then reaching out to people like myself or Jen, behavioral health professionals, if you need more strategies. I have more to say, but I wanna make sure Jen can answer the question as well. Well, and to kind of sort of go along with something that Martha said, it's very unusual or I wonder if her client realized that in starting his running club, what he also did was did something, okay? You know, Mr. Arbery's death, out doing something that people do all the time. Now you have this group of black men who are running together. And that's a statement and empowering in a lot of ways. You know, one of the things, I've had my friends who are other therapists who work maybe in settings where they may not be seeing as much currently inpatient substance abuse treatment units where I used to work previously, where access to news and stuff is limited for clients, but for them, they're aware of, have reached out and said, you good? You know, they didn't wanna get into specifics. They just wanted to make sure that I was good. Now I have other people in my life who because they don't understand the emotional toll necessarily that this can take on someone who is a person of color, who is a black identified person, have reached out expecting me to be able to comfort and care for them. Now, if you're in my office, cool, that is what I do. But you know, I also take my hat off and go home and I'm a human being. And I've had to say to a couple of people, I know why you called me and I'm so very happy you did. Let me suggest you go and look at this or read this because I can't really talk about it right now. And they were very respectful of that because of course they're adults. Not that all adults would be respectful, but they were. So one of the things is being able in engaging in self-care with eating, sleeping and you know, not engaging in the use of substances that could be problematic for you. It's still no one to say, I understand what you're wanting to do, but right now is not the time I'm able to engage in that conversation with you. It's nothing wrong with that. You can send a person to either have a conversation with someone who's a behavioral health expert like myself or Martha, or you can send them where to find some information. Also too, yeah, like right now my social media, fat babies and trees. I focused on my friends who have cute little kids. I'm kind of muting some other stuff. I'm looking at flowers. I had to take a step back. The first three days after the situation in Central Park and then Mr. Floyd was just too much for me to continue to witness that. And probably because being someone who's a little bit older, I had seen some of those images before, maybe not as graphically, but I had seen and I needed to take a step back. So it's nothing wrong. And particularly for young people, sometimes they feel like, but I can't go off social media. I can't. And I'm like, well, yeah, you can or you can be selective in your social media for a little while. That's part of self-care. We tend to in our country think that self-care is going to the spa and getting pretty. And that is part of self-care. But self-care is also taking responsibility and control of your time and your energy. And saying to someone, I do not have the energy to give to you at this time or I do not need you disturbing my things. I do not need you disturbing my energy. Now you can say it may be a little bit nicer than that, but it's okay for you to say it. And I think particularly for people of color, particularly for black people, we have a tendency to, if someone comes to us and wants to have that discussion, because we want them to understand what we're going through, that we shift very quickly from someone who's dealing with their own pain to someone who's trying to educate somebody and explain it to them. And if unfortunately we're dealing with someone who's not open enough to fully hear it, they ask the question, but they're not really fully open enough to hear it. It can be very frustrating for us because we're like, well, you came and asked me the question and I told you, and now you're discounting what I said. It strikes me that that's one of the things that I've heard from lots of colleagues at the point that you're making, Jan, that at a time like this, there's so much value in having a historical context to understand why we've had the level of national and international response to this. And I think that if your goal is to be an ally, one of the first and most important things you need to do is to be a good listener. And secondly, to really busy yourself with gathering information about how did we get here? That's a learning piece. And again, we'll have a lot of resources, but I think that's really very important to not only manage your own stress, but managing the stress for those that you're trying to be supportive of. We talked just a little bit here about social media. I'm wondering, Dr. Crowder, do you have some perspectives about the social media aspects? And I have threatened myself to move the TV out of my bedroom because unfortunately it's on and I'm not for the last minute, but do you have some thoughts about media, how we might use it as a way of holding back the stress around the situation? And at a moment, just a reminder to our audience that we'll start taking your questions. So if you've got one, please put it in the chat box for us. But Dr. Crowder. We absolutely have to start taking doses of media. I'm social media, print media, our news media. So I'm suggesting to all of my patients or anyone who asked me, I would say twice a day, maybe in the morning and in the evening because our news cycles just keep repeating. And what's really important here, I think, is to understand, which is one of our major points, is that this is a really traumatic event. And sometimes the more we engage in media, the more likely we are to keep traumatizing ourselves. So we all need to step back and give ourselves to just process so that we don't keep re-experiencing the trauma. I talk a lot about, in my practice, we've mentioned stress several times. There's acute stress, chronic stress, and then stress can convert to post-traumatic stress disorder and it can lead to other disorders and or some physical health conditions. Acute stress is something that happens like in a brief amount, like a short-term stressor. Chronic stress is when the stress goes on for a while. And unfortunately, it was a really traumatic event which was an acute stressor and the more media we intake if we're doing it 24-7, it helps us lead to more chronic stressors. And I know these are horrible events. I'm not at all trying to minimize that, but I will say that we have to figure out how to back away from social media and again, print or television media to allow ourselves a dance, just a process, and do other things. So a colleague suggested this to me, which I wanna make sure our audience hears me say. She suggested that she gives her clients a worry time. So they have to set a time during the day that they can absolutely just kind of go all in. If that's looking at all social media, worrying and just kind of be all in. So maybe give yourself 30 minutes per an hour, not right before bedtime, but a little earlier than that. So you can just really embrace all, kind of digest all the media, worry about it, and then let go. And I don't mean you're letting go of the events. You're just giving yourself permission to back away from that level of intensity. None of us can live in a state of constant trauma without some long-term consequences to our mental and physical health. So it's really, I'm sorry, I was a long-windowed way to say, it's very important to step away from media. Again, no more than twice a day, just to allow yourself a chance to process and engage in other activities. I heard Oprah say recently, and I thought this was really very good. She said, in the morning, I do not touch my telephone until I've had an opportunity to welcome my day. I look out the window. Is it raining? Is the sun shining? Does the flower look different than it looked yesterday? She said, because once I pick up the phone, my time is no longer my own. It belongs to somebody else. So this issue of not letting these new technologies, which are valuable, dictate and control us. We've got a question here from one of our participants who said, what is your response when explaining the difference between protesters, rioters and looners? So how do you talk about that in ways that how do you distinguish that for folks when you're working with them? Well, first, let me just take a step back and I will give you my answer to that question. The other thing about stress, chronic stress, is that we have to acknowledge and recognize that all of us are coming in with some level of chronic stress just from being a human being that's living. It may look a little different for everybody. It may be the death of a loved one. It may be being a black person, getting ready, going into an office where you are the only person and people don't let you speak or they interrupt you or what may happen. It could be that you're going through a very bad divorce. That is chronic stress and you have to deal with it. So those things are there and then you add on new acute stress and other things that can become chronic stress. So I just wanted to put that out there. Now, I'm gonna answer this question though I have yet to have to answer it with a client. A protester is someone who goes and they say no, in my opinion, you know? They are saying, no, I won't change. I need change. I want you to hear me because you have not heard me and I'm saying very firmly but peacefully. No. And what I mean by that is I'm focused on that. For someone who maybe is rioting, they have been possibly in that space but their anger is so to the level that they may let loose, okay? Now, I'm talking about someone who's not trying to cause chaos because we do know that they are chaos causes. There are those who go to every, I actually had a conversation with a colleague, Dr. Doe, who is from South Korea and she said, yeah, at every protest, we know that the conservative party will send in, the conservative party in Korea will send in someone to cause chaos so that the protest gets ignored and the chaos becomes focused. Now, so you have some people who are rioting out of anger. They are rioting out of anger. You have other people who are angry but firm and asking for justice and then you have chaos causes. Then you have looters. Now, a looter could be someone who was engaging in chaos causing and therefore they're damaging and removing things because they wanna cause more chaos they could be someone who's rioting who is like looking at something and saying that that belongs to the establishment and I don't care about that. I don't care about that and people only acknowledge when you somehow hurt the establishment which is financially and economically or they could be somebody who just really has taken advantage of the situation and they've gone to still a big TV. So, and I'm not making light of it by saying that but you have to recognize that as many people who come to any place for any gathering, any conversation, any meeting of any kind and I'm saying that honestly, meeting because a protest is a meeting. It's an assembly. It's coming with often their own agenda. Sometimes their agenda may match that of the majority of people there and sometimes it may distract from it. So that's what I would say in all honesty that you can't lump all people who are at a protest together. They're not monolithic. Just like all black people are not monolithic, all white people are not monolithic, all of our native brothers and sisters, all of our Asian brothers and sisters and white people are my brothers and sisters too are not monolithic. And so it's important to kind of point that out to people because people get very caught up in the action and not understanding that there may be something else going on that has nothing to do but this is just the thing you see. It's actually that there's also been and Dr. Krabber, you may want to address this as well, that in the media, as it gets covered, that I think lots of times people want to generalize who's engaging in what behavior. And so there is the assumption that, oh, there was this protest and all of a sudden now all the African-Americans are looting but as I have tracked closely, which is part of what I do as a communications person, I've tracked very closely. A lot of folks with different complexions have been looting during these protests that have happened. There have been a lot of peaceful protests but then you've had a lot of people who, again, as you pointed out, have worked very diligently to stir the water, if you will. And it has also been known as a way for some extremists to get into these groups to make things happen that they want to see happen. Case in point, a friend of mine was at the protest in Nashville, Tennessee last Saturday and I said to her, be careful because part of what we're learning is that there are people that are infiltrating these marches with the intention of causing trouble. She kind of blew me off and of course that night they set a fire, some buildings in downtown Nashville and who did the setting of fire? I'll call patient, man who was an extremist. He was a white nationalist. So we gotta be careful even about who we stigmatize. I noticed that there is a tendency at time for people to think that, oh, it is the black people that are protesting and they're also looting and that is not always the case. And I think it's very important to be careful about that as a point. I think completely. I was smiling as you were talking, not smiling and laughter, but in complete agreement. So the problem is that this topic is kind of like one of those third rail topics. And again, we've all mentioned how people bring their own experience to this conversation and that helps determine how they're processing the information. But more than that is such a complex issue. So we've mentioned several times we have the backdrop of COVID. So people are stressed, they're already overwhelmed. They have limited emotional and cognitive resources to process information. We add that people, particularly African Americans are dying at a pretty large rate of those who are dying from COVID-19. And now we have all the racial backdrops. So it's easy for people to kind, we're looking for simple solutions to these problems. And all of what I said, there are no simple explanations, no simple solutions. No way you can just look at a group and blame them. So you can't say all the African American protesters have done all of these things. We didn't get here. This is a complicated issue. And I really wanna make it clear that we have a history in our country of health disparities. That in part explains why you see such a high rate of death among African Americans who have the coronavirus. So that makes it so there's a lot going on here. And I think people are just looking for simple solutions. So it's very easy to say, yes, African Americans are protesting and they're looting. That's just too simple. We have to look at the complicated issue. At both you and Jen have already mentioned there are other factors, other non-African Americans participating in the protests. The riots and the looting. And we have to just acknowledge that and just deal with that. It's complicated, it's messy, but that is where we are. And it keeps us from blaming a group of people. It keeps, hopefully, it allows us to look at the issues in more depth, which is why we started this conversation by saying the importance of reading and listening to multiple perspectives, particularly paying attention to history, as you mentioned, Dr. Taylor, to really help us understand and put all of what we're seeing in context and really to pay attention to who's doing what. Absolutely. Here's another question from the audience. And this is a great one. They said, what strategies can we use on these issues when they come up in the classroom and in our classroom discussions with students? And then a second part of this is how do we create a space for learning that does not further traumatize those for whom the subject is draining or exhausting? So let me just make one announcement. Dr. Cassie Smith, who is going to be Provost Fellow this fall, is going to be doing some workshops for our faculty around this very issue. How do we help that classroom environment? Because it's such an important place because it models so much. So be on the lookout for that. We'll be making announcements because we want to make sure, because my belief is that this is going to be an unusually rocky fall. And many people have heard me talk about why I think it is. And let me tell you quickly. One, we have a national election. And I know last time it wasn't so great on our campus, particularly for some of our Hispanic and Latinx students. Number two, we have the quote, Chinese virus and everything that goes along with the politicization of this illness. And the third piece is what might well happen depending on our football, because that's a very engaging time for our students. How is that going to manifest itself? And then you add onto it the death of George Floyd. So we wanna be sure that we've got our faculty with a set of tools to manage the classroom experience. And I'm gonna toss over to one of our guests today about how do you get information without re-traumatizing those who are already traumatized? Oh, one last thing. And we as a campus are gonna invite you to be a part of a book read, which is white fragility. And we'll start that in July. And that might be a way, but I'm sure that you all have some other ideas for our participants to consider. I have two quick suggestions. So part of my life is being a traditional academic and teaching. And what I talk about is having a difficult dialogues. So this will be part of difficult dialogues for students. So allowing time to discuss this, but having ground rules. So this will take up X amount of the class time. And this is how we will have that discussion kind of laying out the parameters for the discussion. And if a student feels overwhelmed, they actually have permission to kind of leave the class. Maybe they get off Zoom if it's a Zoom class or in-person class, they leave the room momentarily to kind of allow themselves to de-escalate emotionally if needed. But I've done a lot of reading about this. And I did not add this, but I will add it to the resources we're sharing with others. A lot of universities have done difficult dialogues and they have some beautiful suggestions, but all of them talk about the importance again of kind of setting parameters ahead of time before instructors embark on talking about these difficult topics. So it's important and I applaud all of those who plan to talk about these topics in their classes. But again, the parameters help and that helps students to know we can talk about these things, but there may be a point when as a professor, I have to stop the discussion. Like it's escalating too much to give us time to de-escalate. So again, kind of label is difficult dialogues or another topic that makes him appropriate to the professor. Have ground rules around the discussion, limit the time so that you make sure you're also covering other materials in the course and that students have permission to walk out if they need to de-escalate their emotion. Jen, you may have additional suggestions. I do. And of course, being me, I want to take one quick step back and say that in addition to everything with COVID, everything with what we've been seeing in the news, we forgot a big thing, unemployment. Fear of economic change is also playing a role in some way people may be behaving during protests. So I'll leave that there. Being a former history major, I love the internet. I'm all up in the interwebs. I love them, but guess what? I go and I like to go and do hardcore research in the library and pull a book and look myself. I'm naturally sort of a suspect of anything until I actually go and I've read it and investigated it myself. So I would tell people, don't take things at face value just because someone has said it, you know? Because guess what? What starts off as A in conversation five ends up, I mean, conversation one ends up as Z in conversation five. So take the time to go and investigate. Initially, when we had the outbreak of COVID, I had all these people going, oh, we've never experienced this before, blah, blah, blah. The flu of 1918, notice I said the flu of 1918. Does anybody know why they called it the Spanish flu? Probably not. The reason they called it the Spanish flu was because Spain had the only newspapers who were reporting the outbreak of the flu as the war was going on and soldiers were there and people were being infected. So it became a Spanish flu. We don't really know where it came from. They think maybe Kansas from a military compound. But my point being that was 102 years ago. So we have seen a pandemic before and that was what I was trying to say. Not saying that the flu and COVID are alike, but a pandemic. And when people looked at me and they said, really? I said, yeah, go look it up. So my thing would be to say, encourage your students to go and actually look things up to actually research things from credible sources and not just to go along with folklore and things that are easily submitted. Because sometimes you're not getting the information you really need to make your own decision. So in our pre-discussion, one of the things that we talked about was the power of the ability to use the word no. In terms of balancing all of the stressors that everyone is experiencing. That's hard for some people. What recommendations do you have? So I'm gonna take this one first because I have a thing that I love to do. I very rarely say no completely to anything. Not because I am able to do everything and do it all. But when someone comes to me, I often am able to say, okay, I cannot help you with that, but I can do this or I encourage you to go here or let's figure out together what it is we can do. Now, if I can't have a conversation with someone because they are reaching me at a point where I'm at my level, I will sit down and I will say, I'm at my level, I cannot have a conversation with you, but maybe one of my colleagues can. Or I control the dialogue by saying, let's set up a time when we both have enough energy and space to talk. So it is saying no, but saying no on your terms, saying no in a way that you feel comfortable. Also to saying no where the person doesn't feel like they weren't heard as well. I love Jen's response and I just wanna add, this came up earlier in our discussion that particularly for African-Americans, they almost feel like they have to explain. They have to explain how we got here, why we're here. If someone asked them, how can they cope better? How can they do better? They feel compelled that they have to explain and they should have feel permission to just say no for all the reasons that Jen said and all the strategies she suggested. But sometimes you can say no and refer them to other resources. You can say no, maybe I can address that later. Or you can just say, gosh, I'm really sorry, I'm unable to help you with now. Or just no, not in a harsh way. You're not trying to be harsh, but sometimes we just have to acknowledge that that's not the space we're in. And a lot of the literature is really highlighting that, which I very much appreciate that you don't necessarily have to take on someone else's burden or answer everyone's questions. It's okay sometimes to just say, I'm really sorry, I can't answer that right now. You can explain why or you don't have to. So just kind of, I think we all should have permission to just say no. One thing I want to make sure I mentioned and I was remiss, when we talked about self-care kind of taking us back of a few segments of our conversation, I go, I didn't mention the importance of one's faith tradition being a place that someone may find solace and that may make them feel better in terms of self-care. So I know right now many people cannot physically go to a church or another religious setting, but that doesn't mean they can't use their faith. That doesn't mean they can't pray or do any other components of faith that work for them, kind of reaching out to members of their faith community and seeking them for solace and help a lot of faith communities are doing things on Zoom, they're having phone chats. So I just want to make sure I mentioned that and something, two other things, is laughter in music. Sometimes we just forget the importance of stepping back from all of the emotional weight of things. We talked about the economy, we've talked about COVID-19, we've talked about the racial events, to step back for just a moment and put on a movie that's just momentarily and our music can serve that same role. Music that is pleasant, music that is relaxing, music that's enjoyable to you. So I just want to make sure I mentioned those options. Since we were talking about acknowledging and affirming and acting, those are additional ways that we can act to kind of lower our emotional distress and move forward. And let me just clarify. When I say no, I'm doing it for me, I'm not doing it for someone else. So that's why I say it in the way I say it, because I'm naturally someone who is given to help. So because that is who I am, I have to say no in a way that works for me. And so I say it in that way. Now, I'm not saying don't say your firm solid no, but I believe in that as well, if that is how it works for you. For me, it's a rare thing that I do it, but when I do do it, because it's so rare, the people who know me know that it's a solid, okay, let's take a step back, she said no. So that's important, you know. I just wanted to say that. So, you know, there's been an article that's been moving around recently that says, no, your black colleagues are not doing well. And I've seen it posted in lots of different places, which then leads to the conversation about, and folks have said to me, people are checking in on me and asking me questions, and I'm getting a little overwhelmed by the checking and asking of questions. But there's a nice balance that I think we would wanna try to direct folks to do. And one of the things that I've thought about that question is there are issues around authenticity and that how we express that support and concern should not be, oh, let me check this off my list today, but rather it's easier to do that if you have authentic relationships with people, which is why it's valuable to have, because trust occurs when there's authentic relationships. And then when you're under a stressful time, the authenticity of that relationship is able to sustain you in ways that perhaps you couldn't before. So what thoughts or recommendations would you have for folks who want to be genuinely and authentically supportive? But on the other hand, we're also hearing from some folks that it's like, if the 27th person asked me once again how I'm doing, I think I'm gonna bottle rock it out of the building or bottle rock it out of my space. What's a good balance there? And not that either or is bad, but just gives a little conversation around that. For me, and this is one of the things that I do and that I've had done for me, I've had people say, hey, I'm just wanting to check on you. That's it. They're not putting any caveats toward it. They're not asking any questions. Just thinking of you, you came across my mind today. I hope that you are having a good day. Those kind of things where it's acknowledging that there may be something difficult going on and they're thinking about me. And then for the people who are my friends, some of them have been very specific in so far as doing things for me that they know would make me feel good. Like I've had a couple friends, I'm notorious for my Starbucks addiction. I've had a couple of friends who have put a Starbucks gift card on my phone. And it was like, I just thought you could use this today. That's actually what they said. I just thought you could use this today. And so one, like you said, not checking off a list. If you are comfortable with the person and you know them personally, make it a personal thought as you would in any case. And if you aren't that close to the person, but you want them to know, I just thought about you today. I actually agree with Jen. The text messages or other ways of reaching out that seem to resonate most are those that are really simple. Just I thought about you today. You don't have to respond to this message. I just wanted you to know that I know all the things that are going on and I'm thinking about you. Just kind of something simple like that. That allows the person to know that someone's concerned about them, but it gives them permission to respond or not. And it doesn't kind of cause damage to the relationship. So you've kind of allowed the person to say, maybe I'll respond later. But I do appreciate that someone checked in on me. And I think that probably seems to be the most helpful. Because again, we've said this a lot. We just don't know where people are if they're ready to talk or not ready to talk. So just kind of reaching out in a way that allows that person to respond back or not. I think it's incredibly helpful. Being introspective as well, of why you are asking that question. Like you said, the check off of really being introspective. Am I asking this question because I'm wanting someone to assuage my fears, my concerns, my personal guilt for whatever I don't know I'm guilty about or feeling guilty about. Ask where it's coming from. And if it's starting out with you, then I would say take a step back versus if it's like you are considering and thinking about that other person first. So we got a couple of minutes that are remaining. And I do want to ask you, because I do think there's some value in groups thinking about having some conversations with like-minded, like-experienced people to kind of get some of this out on the table and that there's value in that. And I think there's also this tremendous value in, let's say people that are not African-American, really spending some authentic time doing the groundwork which is about the education part that that probably would be the greatest gift because as I tell people all the time, I know that one of my roles in life is to advocate for change, but it's always nice when there's somebody else who is knowledgeable enough about the issues and steps up to the plate to advocate for the change so that you're not the lone voice in the room. Is there anything else that you might add to either our students or to our faculty and staff about how we precope in this very, very tumultuous time I think be aware of what you're feeling when you go into a situation that you think could be charged and making the decision, is it a right time for me to go into this situation? Cause I may not be able to have these conversations. Also going into the situation, recognizing that I may have these conversations with someone and they may not respond in the way that I wanted them to respond. Because we all want the people we know in our lives to think the way that we do in positive, loving, caring ways. And so we may be a little shocked and it may alter our point of view of that person and we need to acknowledge that before we go into that conversation. Am I prepared right now to make the decisions I may need to make after I have a conversation with someone who disappoints me? And that's what it is, is disappointment. And the one thing I would add to that is we all have different communities. So when I teach, I used to teach cultural competency, I will say that we all can't be cultural competent in everything, but we can be culturally humble. And being culturally humble means we're open to differences of opinion. So if you're not ready to be culturally humble to be open to someone seeing the world differently than you then I would suggest finding your community. And your community may look different depending on where you are. So I have an academic community, that community is really important to me and we process things in a particular way. I have a community that's just comprised of African-American professional women across disciplines. We process things a particular way. I have my community of friends that I've known forever. We process the world. So we all have different communities and different ways to think about our communities. I did most of my education other than undergrad away from the West Coast. So I always sought out the people when I moved around the country who were from the West because they just made me feel comfortable in a very different way. So I want to say that finding our communities may vary depending on again where we are and what we need at that moment, but take the time to find your communities and that'll help you when we meet like-minded people. But I also want us all to be culturally humble and be open to people seeing the world differently than us having a discussion if you're ready or being able to say, gosh, you see things very differently than me. I want to follow back up with you about that, but now I don't know that I can continue this conversation. So kind of finding our communities, being culturally humble and being honest when we need to step away. And being, oh, I just want to add really quickly. Part of being culturally humble is also being culturally humble within your own culture. And what I mean by that is because I do work with students, I have to acknowledge that there may be a young black male who comes in here who's 19. I'm a lady of a certain age, from a certain point of view. He may be from a state out West or a state up North. So he has a certain point of view. And of course, as his therapist, I'm gonna listen to him anyway, but let's say I met him at the coffee shop and we ended up talking in line. I have to listen to him and recognize that his point of view may be very different from mine or acknowledge the fact that our point of view is actually the same, but it's coming from a different lens and being open to that, so that we can continue to have a discussion and learn from each other. And yes, we all learn from each other regardless of where we come from, regardless of how educated we are, regardless of our age, regardless of our gender, regardless of our identities, the many that they may be. And so we have to be okay with that. I'm learning every day. And I'm thankful for that. I'm thankful for this conversation because having this conversation, I'm learning as we go. And so I think we're on a college campus, so we all could be much better at being true students. Great. Well, speaking of the conversation, unfortunately we've come to the end of the time. I do wanna remind those who are participating, all of the resources that our guests have provided us today are posted on the Diversity Equity Inclusion website. You're free to share them with anybody because our goal here is to make our campus more welcoming, more culturally responsive, and more inclusive. And I also wanna say that we'll post information about how to contact these two colleagues. Perhaps real quickly you could just say if people wanna get support, whether they're students, faculty, or staff, where do they need to go? Just real quickly if we can. If you're a student, please call the counseling center, 205-348-3863. And we offer individual sessions. We have different groups that currently we're figuring out how to put them on Zoom. And so we're hoping to have our groups up and running again. And we're looking into doing some workshops and different things surrounding race. So keep an eye out for that soon. And also too, if you just need to call and consult and ask a question, you can do that as well. Whether you are a student, whether you are a faculty member, whether you are a family member, if you're a member of the university community, that's basically everybody. You can't ask a question. Great, talk to them. And for me, so you can reach me. You wanna reach me, you can go to our website, the College of Community Health Sciences. We have a clinic, Betty Shirley, which is behavioral health and psychiatry. The phone number is 348-1264-348-1264. And my email address, if you wanna reach out to me and I can help you navigate this if you're uncomfortable or want to kind of process it with someone, some people haven't reached out for mental health help before and I'm more than willing to walk you through that. It's mrcrawther at UA.edu. As a colleague used to call me all the time, mrcrawther at UA.edu. And I'd be more than happy again to kind of help you find the appropriate resource that you need to walk you through or make you feel comfortable with seeking behavioral health. And one thing we did add is a sheet that helps you figure out what behavioral health looks like if you're uncomfortable and had to reach out to anyone in the past. So we tried to provide a range of resources and that would... Great. I wanna give a special thanks to our participants, Jen Turner and Dr. Mr. Craver for joining us today. Thank you so much, everybody. And we hope that you have a less stressful weekend and that we can all find a way to go collectively. And of course we end by saying, roll tide, bye-bye. Thank you very much.